@@greaterbayareahero1401 unfortunately there is a company called alpha and they make homage watches. They could use epsilon, theta, delta, gamma any other Greek letter
@@bladeknockingon700 Damn, but you understand the theory. Rolex has their game plan to use Tudor as the men at the front of the battle. Omega should do the same. No one goes directly to the King. it's all a chess game. Omega needs some rookies.
Haven’t watched a Theo and Harris vid in quite a while. Caught him on the ac3 stream the other day. Man… this was fun to watch… real watch talk, and seem like good guys. Cheers, keep it up!
Without Rolex being the big brother, Tudor goes against the likes of Oris and Tag Heuer. They wouldn't even be mentioned to be in competition for Omega. Even taking into account Rolex affiliation, Tudor is more of a Breitling competitor. This isn't a knock on Tudor watches at all, very nice watches, but still...
Which is even sadder cause if you give me the choice between a black bay 58 & a B01 chronomat or premier, I’m choosing the premier. And I like the black bay, but you put Tudor’s catalog side by side with Breitling and Tudor comes up short as a competitor.
Honestly, none of the luxury stainless steel watches are really “worth it” when you compare the nuts and bolts to a high end Seiko, Oris, Monta, Brellum, whatever. Prices are all justified on marketing, logo and (edit) _the very subjective superiority of design._
Now compare a Tudor Pelagos with the Omega SMP. It’s clear they are on the same level. Nod going to Omega for bling but Pelagos is obviously the “ Real” tool watch.
Yeah, from a hardware/specs perspective, most current Omega models outperform Rolex equivalents whereas Tudor, while technically impressive, is forever bound by the Diffusion Brand Shalt Never Outperform Mothership Brand commandment.
The US watch market doesn’t represent the world watch market. Depends. If you look at world wide average price sales per unit, Tudor competes price wise with Tag while Brietling compares price wise closer to Omega. Checkout the report by Morgan Stanley as reviewed by NSOW.
Those Pateks, the enamel ones, use the cloisonné technique to separate the colours, its extremely hard to do properly and a very old technique from ancient Japan, google japanese cloisonne vases
You guys mentioned a point about how the "watch community" is actually very small and doesn't dictate the larger trends (which I totally agree with). What you guys failed to mention is that outside of the "watch community" no one in the general public has even heard of Tudor before... ask non-watch enthusiasts if they've heard of Tudor and I'd argue 95% have not
Most of the watches that watch nerds lust after are completely unknown to "normal" people. Normal people think the watches in the jewelry case at a mall department store are "expensive." They might have heard of Breitling, Panerai and Tag but ain't no way they know about more obscure stuff like Audimar Peakgay, JLC, Longjeans, Nomos, Oris, Paddock Phillip, Zenith and Tudor. It's like expecting a non car guy to know about Morgan, Spyker and TVR.
@@Mister_Phafanapolis Can't agree more. I complemented a mentor of mine on his Reverso and he said in his 15 years of owning it I was the first to know what it was. I guarantee you you show a picture of that fish Patek to anyone else and they'd ask if you got it out of a happy meal.
@@steelsteez6118 fair enough - but if I recall in the video they were saying that Tudor is going to claim the position that Rolex used to have in the marketplace. My point is that is not likely going to happen with their low brand recognition
The general public is starting to know Audemars & Patek, particularly the Nautilus & Royal Oak..They’ve always known Cartier tank and Santos..but generally outside of those and Rolex Submariners, Datejust, & “presidents”…the general population doesn’t care about anything but GShocks. Lol
Rolex and Tudor 100% play together. Tudor's strategy is way underway in going straight after Omega and going upmarket. Buy Tudor Black Bay now because in 5 years the prices will be 70-80% higher.
Tudor will never overtake Omega. Only the hype drives Tudor prices. Owning watches from both, Tudor is nowhere near Omega. Most of their designs are too left field also.
Completely agree. I thought the comparison was comical. Tudor hour hands look like penises and they will always be the Porsche Boxster to a 911 with Rolex. Omega is better than both brands frankly.
I never really appreciated Rolex. I owned a Sub and Date Just - and they were just plain, ordinary watches to me. Boring, so I sold them. I have many Omegas in my collection, and feel they have more horological soul. I hope Swatch Group pushes Omega to step up its complications game and offer more higher-end lines with calendars, Moonphases, Rattrapantes, Tourbillons, etc - and just move above Rolex on the Haute Horology pyramid - even though, I feel Omega is already above them….
I like what u said but no they can't compete. Rolex used gold even in stainless steele models, its really worth it. But not saying omega ain't hot specially worldtimer
Horologically, I agree. However, Omega really needs to do something about their bracelets, especially their clasp. For the money, the bracelets are so $h!+, to the extent that even Breitlings and iwc (though ugly) get right. As a bracelet person, Rolex it is, until Omega gets their crap together on their clasps and bracelets on seamaster and speedies...
I do think Tudor can surpass Omega but they cannot increase their prices and they need to make a solid lineup (and not just Black Bays). They really do not support the advertisement of their other models.
@Nigel Molesworth what part? Them not supporting their other models? That just comes from a consumer standpoint. I do not hear about much care or development of their other models. And if your average consumer does not hear about it, it is not reaching the majority of the masses. As far as them being able to surpass Omega, it is like Christian said, if Tudor starts to over time increase their prices as Rolex did years back then they are just following suit. I personally feel to beat Omega they need to undercut them. Nobody will beat Rolex at their own game and Omega is chasing Rolex, but if Tudor chases Omega... it will all fall behind Rolex.
Tudor black bay is the speedmaster to omega. They not changing that. But I understand your view. I'm telling yall that tudor blue navy for French navy is nice
I don't know about a all bronze watch. I still prefer a SS Black bay. Those old Seamasters are beautiful 😍 I been eyeing the Omega Seamaster Olympic. I also checking out a vintage Oyster perpetual 1971. The vintage Rolex are so nice and very classy 👌
I tried to buy a new Rolex (in Taipei) last month to commemorate a significant promotion at work, unfortunately I literally couldn’t get one. Tried the ADs to no avail. Only grey market dealers had them, and the mark up was insane, also I didn’t really trust some of them. In the end I bought a vintage Rolex (for a fraction of the price), because that’s all that was available, from a trustworthy store in Taipei, too. Rolex missed out on a sale, but I still bought a Rolex, and I saved money… I could have bought a new Grand Seiko or Tudor from the ADs and boutiques in Taipei as they had stock, but I didn’t want a watch that I only bought because I couldn’t buy a Rolex.
The irony of this situation is you didn’t want an “inferior” watch (Grand Seiko or Tudor), yet you still bought an inferior watch (vintage Rolex) because your couldn’t get a new one lol I would take a Grand Seiko or Tudor over a vintage Rolex in a heartbeat.
@@TheJohnGalt1945 the issue is the value of the asset. I live in a country that may get taken over by an authoritarian outside regime, if that is the case I might need to sell said watch, either here or abroad. A vintage Rolex holds more value on the secondhand market than a GS or Tudor, if one is realistic. Due to the pandemic causing trouble in Taiwan (with no real state support for businesses), I got a very good deal as a cash buyer, especially if I need to sell in England, as vintage Rolexes have jumped in value there over the past year and a half. The other issue is that Tudor is a poor man’s Rolex (I didn’t want to buy one and feel “what if?”), and my wife cannot understand why I’d pay so much for a glorified Seiko 5!
@Nigel Molesworth I went to the Rolex AD and couldn’t get one. I was emphasising how crazy it is that a shop wouldn’t have products for sale, especially when they are advertising the products currently. I didn’t fancy joining a waiting list for an indefinite period of time, seeing as I didn’t have any Rolex AD buying history to bump me up the list.
Buttons optional. Also, didn't Blancpain and Airman pre-date the Sub and GMT, respectively? Rolex isn't necessarily innovative, but their execution is remarkable.
The fundamental error in this entire analysis in the idea that the US and the world is the same thing. Tudor WAS NOT reintroduced to the world with the blackbay - just the US. The blackbay does not define tudor, it is a niche product for the west. Tudor is, mainly, the royal, the glamour, the 1926 etc - these comprise the vast majority of world wide tudor sales. Rolex has significant influence over the US market as a result of the how rolex and tudor are seen in that very specific market. (note - rolex is huge everywhere, its really the tudor side of this discussion that is fatally flawed). Say after me, the US is not the world.
Love the content! But I enjoy the old camera angle better. In this video the camera focus was kind of on christian, rather than being on the mid vertical, cutting some portion of chris
If you're a Brit, these guys are the Beavis and Butthead of watch appreciation. By contrast, Adrian is the Labrador bounding into the family living room after a quick dip in the village pond. Take your pick.
Are tha hands on the Rolex original? They look great! Considering the patina on the indecis and numerals look tarnished. I just dont know about the size at 34 of most bublebacks.
Tudor is the black bay company and it’s only the 58 that has it’s proportions sorted. The others are way way to tall and top heavy. They are no way near Omega on any level as much as I like my 58 navy.
Rolex is playing the exclusivity game. My question is how much would they charge, Today, for a new rolex oyster perpetual 41 at an AD. retail for one on the official webpage is 5900usd. How much extra could they be charging someone that walks into a AD just for a more affordable oyster perpetual, a Explorer stainless steel, or a Airking. Most people wouldn't want to play the waitlist game.
How about this. Tudor catching the crumbs at the success of the Rolex pie? Great video guys. Tudor is already working their way into what the preceramic Rolexes were.
@@TheoandHarris if you're going based on oyster case and bracelet then you could say it's a budget "insert any Rolex." One is a two tone steel and gold GMT with bi color ceramic bezel, completely different black dial layout and date. While the other is a simple time only bronze watch with 3,6,9 brown dial layout. Struggle to see the similarities or how anyone after a rootbeer who couldn't afford one could convince themselves this is a good budget alternative.
The eagle patek looks f****** ridiculous, if I saw somebody wearing that I would assume it was a quartz watch with a fake leather band and made of plastic 😆
Brequet was one of the first automatic movements for pocket watches, so you are correct (and I believe one of the best automatic movement designs). Harwood (with the help of a Swiss company called Fortis) was the first wristwatch that had an automatic movement. Rolex was NOT the first, Rolex improved on Harwood's design about 2 years later. Source: Wikipedia.
I feel like T and H might be the only “journalists” with the balls to call out watch manufacturers where they have messed up. Tudor for example, the 925 silver Black Bay. In their press release they float that they have come up with an alloy that “use does not affect the appearance of the case of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight 925” inferring that it won’t tarnish like normal 925 silver. However now a lot of owners barely months into ownership are get some horrendous tarnishing. Which is fine IF Tudor didn’t try and brag that they had come up with something special. HODINKEE, Fratello , Bark and Jack etc are have a vested interest in kissing ass but I think Christian could step on toes. I like that. Complete respect.
Rolex's strategy has been clear for a while: Patek-level exclusivity for a mass-produced product. Better to lock in a few high margin sales to wealthy people, oligarchs, and well-to-do collectors who can all be relied on to snap up several new releases every year instead of the masses of middle class strivers whose spending is subject to economic instability and would've gotten one steel sports as a lifetime achievement. Those people can buy Tudor instead.
So...I learned at 14:10 that you can buy an RGM 250v from TH for $4750...or you can buy it direct from RGM, full warranty from the maker (probably even make an appointment and get to meet Roland) for $3500 Choose wisely my friends
The only reason I think Omega will always be ahead of Tudor is because of clout. Omega as a brand has its own merits (James Bond, the moon, etc.). Tudor as a brand advertises to most other people you can’t afford a Rolex.
The not being able to afford a Rolex argument....yawn. Maybe some people don't want to be seen wearing a Rolex. If someone is willing to pay $4k-$16k for a Black Bay, I'd say they're able to spend the same money on a Rolex.
@@Angry_Gnome Like it or not, it’s a valid argument. Could someone genuinely prefer Tudor over Rolex? Absolutely. But that won’t stop most people from thinking you settled. Plus, anyone who would genuinely pay $16k for a BB needs to get their head examined…
@@Angry_Gnome Totally agree with your comment , people that say Tudor is poor man's Rolex doesn't really understand the brand and their strategy. Rolex is completing with likes of AP and Patek ......Tudor is taking risks , innovating and more strongly marketed to complete with Omega and Breitling to fill that gap. Omega is not on Rolex level now , Rolex & Tudor has a aligned strategy.
@@TheJohnGalt1945 It's not even so much as settling for a Tudor...you could make a valid argument that a BB58 is nicer than a no date Sub. It's personal preference, and the fact that you can actually find a BB58 with a little effort doesn't hurt. I wouldn't call that settling, but the fact that you can't even find a Sub is definitely a factor, and anyone willing to pay thousands over retail for one on the gray market is just foolish, IMO.
@@matty89ng You’re delusional if you think Rolex is competing with AP or Patek. They don’t have anywhere near the fit and finish, nor the engineering (no perpetual calendar, no tourbillon, etc.) to even come close. The only reason Rolex is even mentioned in the same sentence as AP and Patek is because they make up for their lack of quality with quantity and marketing. Rolex and Tudor may have an aligned strategy, but the latter will be living in the shadow of its big sister for the foreseeable future.
Yes -- or Fortis was the Swiss company that worked with Harwood to become the first wrist watch with an automatic movement. Took me less than a minute to look that one up on Wikipedia. :-)
@@TheoandHarris Because it is gratuitously violent and silly at times, and then switches on a dime to be deeply emotional and touching the next moment. I am also just a huge Tarantino fan! Added bonus, I like ninjas and assassins :D
@@TheoandHarris Oh, and as an art major, I always appreciated how aggressive the color theory is, the Bruce Lee type yellow and black suit Uma wears, when everything goes black and white suddenly. The videography is also super experimental with some of the shots. It really was a trailblazing movie all around.
yes, taking the watch to a jeweller frequently to remove tarnish is a big deal. no one wants the hassle of doing that frequently and losing the watch for a week, ridiculous. bronze is nothing more than a gimmick in wrist watches, will avoid like the plague!
As much as Rolex pushes Tudor, the average consumer doesn’t even know what Tudor is let alone that Rolex owns them. I'm not saying that Tudor does not make quality watches, but it was just recently that Tudor even came back to the US market. Rolex is very smart in 'reviving' Tudor as it keeps the Rolex brand premium and unattainable, which therefore makes the little brother Tudor the attainable 'Rolex'. To compare Tudor to Omega is a joke. Omega has history and is a premium watch maker and Tudor will always be a budget Rolex.
Taking the emotion out of the comparison, and viewing the comparison broadly, it is not "a joke" to compare Tudor and Omega. What exactly Tudor will surpass Omega in was not defined, but I can definitely see sometime in the future Tudor surpassing Omega in sales units and possibly dollars. I can opine that the Speedmaster is Omegas Black Bay. Is the Speedmasters movement more innovative and complex than anything Tudor installs in their watches, yes, but the layman usually doesn't care. And to state that Tudor will always be a budget Rolex, well of course, it's one of the reasons for Tudors creation...
@@joserangel7408 Back to my point, the average watch buyer will pick Omega over Tudor simply because of brand recognition. People know that 007 wears one and that the astronauts wore one on the moon. There is a history that Omega has that Tudor simply can't recreate. Tudor would be on the level of Oris, Tag and Breitling without the Rolex backing. The new ceramic BB now comes Metas certified.What brand was Metas certified first?...See Tudor does not innovate. They copy and ride coattails. Tudor really only cares about the Black Bay. The other lines do not really get any love. The Pelagos is actually a very nice watch. Bottom line is that Omega is a Rolex rival and Tudor is simply not and I doubt will ever be.
I don't think you read my comment. You didn't address anything I wrote. I agree that Omega is an innovator, especially in regards to movements. Of course Omega has more history behind it, I don't disagree. Omega is a solid watch brand, without a doubt. Your scenario about what the Tudor brand would be without the Rolex backing isn't valid, because that isn't the case or the universe we live in. That's like me attempting to argue/debate what Omega would be without the history, which I won't, because that's not the reality. Reread my initial reply. I'll also add this statement/opinion: It is more likely that Tudor "catches up" to Omega than Omega "catches up" to Rolex.
@@joserangel7408 I understand your comments, but I don' think you got mine. The reason we are going back and forth about Tudor vs Omega is because Rolex is the sister company to Tudor. Plain and simple. We can compare BB to Speedmaster and Pelagos to Seamaster. Sure, but the 'buzz' regarding Tudor is not because Tudor grew as a company itself like Omega did, but rather they had major help from the juggernaut of Luxury watches. Even with Rolexes help they are not where Omega stands. As a brand Tudor without Rolex would be grouped with Oris, Zenith, etc.. The only reason Tudor gets the love that it does is because of Rolex. Tudor has not done anything revolutionary in their watchmaking. Both Tudor and Omega make nice timepieces, but you would not be able to set Tudor apart from other Swiss brands if it was not for the tie to Rolex. To your point of Tudor catching Omega then Omega catching Rolex again proves my point. Easier to catch up (not likely) if your big brother tells you what to make rather than creating something unique. FYI I appreciate all 3 brands. You can disagree all you want, but it's a fact. Look at the other comments below. Many have the same viewpoint as me.
We'll agree to disagree. The market dictates price/prestige/influence/favor and Tudor, with the help of Rolex, will be able to increase all of the aforementioned qualities with ease. Omega has essentially hit a plateau, Tudor still has room to grow and continue to take market share. OMEGA is supposed to be a flagship brand like Rolex, but the fact we are even discussing a SUB brand of Rolex potentially being on par with Omega is a testament in itself. Omega has a 78 year headstart on Tudor and that doesn't include the hiatus Tudor took from the US market. I'm downsizing my personal collection and I am consigning 5 watches: Rolex 1601 Tudor oysterprince Omega Speedmaster Cartier Tank Solo Bvlgari Octo Solotempo I'll let you take a guess at which one of those has appreciated the least.
Seriously. Their Tudor GMT is top heavy and is a slab. Once Tudor fixes their thickness issue and case dimensions, then we have a more viable Omega competitor.
Tudor can't compete with Omega, the only watch Tudor really sell is the black bay which is getting boring now. Tudor is competing with Longines, Who make far more interesting watches than Tudor.
@@stavrosmaiden exactly, Longines makes more interesting and better looking watches that cost less than a Tudor. Apart from the black bay, which is getting boring now, nobody buys any other Tudor.
@@coffeeboyclips1973 in the end it's a matter of preference but longines is way back comparing to tudor. My problem with longines (and the Swatch group in general) is that they have too many models and variations of each model. Apart from that, the price tag of Tudor is such that one who is ready to buy a longines, can wait a bit longer and buy s Tudor. Don't forget that all that matters in collecting watches is the status of the brand and Tudor is better... Being part of the Swatch group has badly affected some brands including longines.
@@stavrosmaiden not sure about Tudors brand status, most people have not heard of Tudor, whereas they have Longines. I can afford to buy omega, Rolex and tudor but I prefer Longines, I buy the watches I like and not the status of the brand.
While I love Tudor, the closeness to Rolex is not always good, people buy Omegas because they went to the moon, because of James Bond in the last 30 years, because of the amazing quality for dollar, and the innovation, also the name that is often spoken as Rolex only rival, Rolex has even more of those credentials than Omega, but Tudor doesn't, Tudor right now is Rolex little brother, and the home of the Black Bay, that's it, nothing else, and while I love the Tudor style burgundy, and the pelagos, I can't actually say Tudor is even in the same ballpark as Omega when you talk anything other than the Black Bay.
@@Angry_Gnome That's the thing, the aquaterra is different enough of a watch to be another watch, so it's the planet ocean, the Seamaster 300 is really on a different level as well, so are the world timers, and the constellation is a respectable name as well, not the case with Tudor at all, you see, you don't need 500 lines of watches, even Rolex has only half a dozen or so heavy hitters and a couple fun ones, the problem is having just one line carrying everything, of course the Seamaster 300, the aquaterra, and the speedmaster are the main Omega lines, with the planet ocean almost there, the problem is having just 1, and let's face it the Tudor Pelagos is way too close in looks to the black bay, the other lines are WAY too close in looks to Rolex, Tudor is today a 1 hit wonder, even though I love some of the watches they have.
Rolex has left so much space in the market by going up market,even though the QC on their watches is shit Omega is too advanced for Tudor to take on Omega eats Tudor alive still Granted Tudor really have come along over the last 5 years now but they have not been a constant like omega or Rolex My money is on omega all the way
Same here, and still want that new French navy blue tudor. Its slick. But scared to buy because I need the money around when I get a call for a rolex. Thats the only issue
luving this series you guys have been doing lately, having both on camera. Great chemistry, banter etc Really enjoyable.
I try think it’s a win in Tudor’s book or even Rolex’s book that we are even comparing Tudor against Omega right now.
I’m sure that was Rolex’s intention. Now they can be compared to Audimar Peakgay and Paddock Phillip.
Omega needs to spin off a new company called Alpha to fight against Tudor.
@@greaterbayareahero1401 unfortunately there is a company called alpha and they make homage watches. They could use epsilon, theta, delta, gamma any other Greek letter
I still see omega vs rolex threads 100x more than omega vs tudor
@@bladeknockingon700 Damn, but you understand the theory. Rolex has their game plan to use Tudor as the men at the front of the battle. Omega should do the same. No one goes directly to the King. it's all a chess game. Omega needs some rookies.
Haven’t watched a Theo and Harris vid in quite a while. Caught him on the ac3 stream the other day. Man… this was fun to watch… real watch talk, and seem like good guys. Cheers, keep it up!
That “I had a beer this morning” quick line had me crying lol
Without Rolex being the big brother, Tudor goes against the likes of Oris and Tag Heuer. They wouldn't even be mentioned to be in competition for Omega. Even taking into account Rolex affiliation, Tudor is more of a Breitling competitor. This isn't a knock on Tudor watches at all, very nice watches, but still...
Which is even sadder cause if you give me the choice between a black bay 58 & a B01 chronomat or premier, I’m choosing the premier. And I like the black bay, but you put Tudor’s catalog side by side with Breitling and Tudor comes up short as a competitor.
Honestly, none of the luxury stainless steel watches are really “worth it” when you compare the nuts and bolts to a high end Seiko, Oris, Monta, Brellum, whatever. Prices are all justified on marketing, logo and (edit) _the very subjective superiority of design._
Now compare a Tudor Pelagos with the Omega SMP. It’s clear they are on the same level. Nod going to Omega for bling but Pelagos is obviously the “ Real” tool watch.
Yeah, from a hardware/specs perspective, most current Omega models outperform Rolex equivalents whereas Tudor, while technically impressive, is forever bound by the Diffusion Brand Shalt Never Outperform Mothership Brand commandment.
The US watch market doesn’t represent the world watch market. Depends. If you look at world wide average price sales per unit, Tudor competes price wise with Tag while Brietling compares price wise closer to Omega. Checkout the report by Morgan Stanley as reviewed by NSOW.
Those Pateks, the enamel ones, use the cloisonné technique to separate the colours, its extremely hard to do properly and a very old technique from ancient Japan, google japanese cloisonne vases
Same bracelet? It has glide lock extension!!
The fact they said it was the same bracelet notwithstanding the glide lock addition undermines their credibility a bit.
@@vloh168 not enough research.
You guys mentioned a point about how the "watch community" is actually very small and doesn't dictate the larger trends (which I totally agree with). What you guys failed to mention is that outside of the "watch community" no one in the general public has even heard of Tudor before... ask non-watch enthusiasts if they've heard of Tudor and I'd argue 95% have not
Most of the watches that watch nerds lust after are completely unknown to "normal" people. Normal people think the watches in the jewelry case at a mall department store are "expensive." They might have heard of Breitling, Panerai and Tag but ain't no way they know about more obscure stuff like Audimar Peakgay, JLC, Longjeans, Nomos, Oris, Paddock Phillip, Zenith and Tudor. It's like expecting a non car guy to know about Morgan, Spyker and TVR.
@@Mister_Phafanapolis Can't agree more. I complemented a mentor of mine on his Reverso and he said in his 15 years of owning it I was the first to know what it was.
I guarantee you you show a picture of that fish Patek to anyone else and they'd ask if you got it out of a happy meal.
Yes and let's keep it that way. Thanks!
@@steelsteez6118 fair enough - but if I recall in the video they were saying that Tudor is going to claim the position that Rolex used to have in the marketplace. My point is that is not likely going to happen with their low brand recognition
The general public is starting to know Audemars & Patek, particularly the Nautilus & Royal Oak..They’ve always known Cartier tank and Santos..but generally outside of those and Rolex Submariners, Datejust, & “presidents”…the general population doesn’t care about anything but GShocks. Lol
The Budweiser watch looks like a throwback to the 80s something about it is cool
You guys are on fire with your videos lately. You're onto something cool with this format. Also, I agree, the "fish" Patek looks fantastic.
I've just checked and it seems the The Tudor Black Bay Fifty-Eight Bronze is not available in the US. For what it's worth.
I think they are setting up a Tudor boutique in NYC sometime in the near future
Some good lively banter. Good stuff guys
Rolex and Tudor 100% play together. Tudor's strategy is way underway in going straight after Omega and going upmarket. Buy Tudor Black Bay now because in 5 years the prices will be 70-80% higher.
Tudor will never overtake Omega. Only the hype drives Tudor prices. Owning watches from both, Tudor is nowhere near Omega. Most of their designs are too left field also.
Completely agree. I thought the comparison was comical. Tudor hour hands look like penises and they will always be the Porsche Boxster to a 911 with Rolex. Omega is better than both brands frankly.
@@BourbonInhibitions older oris aquis models hour hands look like a penis. I don't see that with the snowflake.
Love you boys , 2 good Freind’s chatting away 👍👍
100% you have management from the foundation telling what Tudor should do in light of Rolex. What managerial team won't consider their two brands?
The bronze tudor bracelet does have a glide lock right? I think you guys missed that
Checking your watch to see the temperature.
Classic 😎
First thing I noticed when they showed the Bronze Black Bay... Root Beer colors.
Tudor is the incessant left jab, Rolex is the occasional power right cross.
And the jab is the most important punch.
Look at the irony in Michael's face when Christian's ranting on, then tell us who the real puppet is 😄
They both look and act like 2 ding-dongs...
I never really appreciated Rolex. I owned a Sub and Date Just - and they were just plain, ordinary watches to me. Boring, so I sold them. I have many Omegas in my collection, and feel they have more horological soul. I hope Swatch Group pushes Omega to step up its complications game and offer more higher-end lines with calendars, Moonphases, Rattrapantes, Tourbillons, etc - and just move above Rolex on the Haute Horology pyramid - even though, I feel Omega is already above them….
This is why I prefer Omega over Rolex. They just stand out to me, Rolex’s rarely ever do
I like what u said but no they can't compete. Rolex used gold even in stainless steele models, its really worth it. But not saying omega ain't hot specially worldtimer
Completely agree
Horologically, I agree. However, Omega really needs to do something about their bracelets, especially their clasp. For the money, the bracelets are so $h!+, to the extent that even Breitlings and iwc (though ugly) get right. As a bracelet person, Rolex it is, until Omega gets their crap together on their clasps and bracelets on seamaster and speedies...
@@redbullrobert this is a guy that knows watches i didn't realize that until I but the speedmaster pro. The bracelets are trash. Good point
I’m exhausted just listening to these two.
I do think Tudor can surpass Omega but they cannot increase their prices and they need to make a solid lineup (and not just Black Bays). They really do not support the advertisement of their other models.
@Nigel Molesworth what part? Them not supporting their other models? That just comes from a consumer standpoint. I do not hear about much care or development of their other models. And if your average consumer does not hear about it, it is not reaching the majority of the masses. As far as them being able to surpass Omega, it is like Christian said, if Tudor starts to over time increase their prices as Rolex did years back then they are just following suit. I personally feel to beat Omega they need to undercut them. Nobody will beat Rolex at their own game and Omega is chasing Rolex, but if Tudor chases Omega... it will all fall behind Rolex.
Tudor black bay is the speedmaster to omega.
They not changing that. But I understand your view. I'm telling yall that tudor blue navy for French navy is nice
I don't know about a all bronze watch. I still prefer a SS Black bay. Those old Seamasters are beautiful 😍 I been eyeing the Omega Seamaster Olympic. I also checking out a vintage Oyster perpetual 1971. The vintage Rolex are so nice and very classy 👌
Great video, wonderful content… there is blind fans trying to compare Tudor with Omega (it’s insane)
If Tudor comes out with a two tone (polished vs flat) BB58 .. I’ll buy them all!
Well that was a real casual video 🎰
Bronze makes sense tarnished (that's the hole point!) and no, going to the jeweler once a month would be an immense pain.
*whole. But yes agreed, I'll clean my watch once a month, but definitely not taking to a jeweler monthly.
No need to bring it to a jeweler to clean off the patina.
"And I'm free, free-ballin'!" 🎶
I tried to buy a new Rolex (in Taipei) last month to commemorate a significant promotion at work, unfortunately I literally couldn’t get one. Tried the ADs to no avail. Only grey market dealers had them, and the mark up was insane, also I didn’t really trust some of them. In the end I bought a vintage Rolex (for a fraction of the price), because that’s all that was available, from a trustworthy store in Taipei, too. Rolex missed out on a sale, but I still bought a Rolex, and I saved money…
I could have bought a new Grand Seiko or Tudor from the ADs and boutiques in Taipei as they had stock, but I didn’t want a watch that I only bought because I couldn’t buy a Rolex.
The irony of this situation is you didn’t want an “inferior” watch (Grand Seiko or Tudor), yet you still bought an inferior watch (vintage Rolex) because your couldn’t get a new one lol
I would take a Grand Seiko or Tudor over a vintage Rolex in a heartbeat.
@@TheJohnGalt1945 the issue is the value of the asset. I live in a country that may get taken over by an authoritarian outside regime, if that is the case I might need to sell said watch, either here or abroad. A vintage Rolex holds more value on the secondhand market than a GS or Tudor, if one is realistic. Due to the pandemic causing trouble in Taiwan (with no real state support for businesses), I got a very good deal as a cash buyer, especially if I need to sell in England, as vintage Rolexes have jumped in value there over the past year and a half. The other issue is that Tudor is a poor man’s Rolex (I didn’t want to buy one and feel “what if?”), and my wife cannot understand why I’d pay so much for a glorified Seiko 5!
@Nigel Molesworth I went to the Rolex AD and couldn’t get one. I was emphasising how crazy it is that a shop wouldn’t have products for sale, especially when they are advertising the products currently. I didn’t fancy joining a waiting list for an indefinite period of time, seeing as I didn’t have any Rolex AD buying history to bump me up the list.
“Check out the big brain on Brad” The guy on the left looks EXACTLY like Brett from PF!
Buttons optional. Also, didn't Blancpain and Airman pre-date the Sub and GMT, respectively? Rolex isn't necessarily innovative, but their execution is remarkable.
Yes they did predate both Rolex models.
Tudor is the shield. It's in their logo. To protect the crown.
The fundamental error in this entire analysis in the idea that the US and the world is the same thing. Tudor WAS NOT reintroduced to the world with the blackbay - just the US. The blackbay does not define tudor, it is a niche product for the west. Tudor is, mainly, the royal, the glamour, the 1926 etc - these comprise the vast majority of world wide tudor sales. Rolex has significant influence over the US market as a result of the how rolex and tudor are seen in that very specific market. (note - rolex is huge everywhere, its really the tudor side of this discussion that is fatally flawed).
Say after me, the US is not the world.
So true!!!
another great video! awesome content gentlemen
Love the content! But I enjoy the old camera angle better. In this video the camera focus was kind of on christian, rather than being on the mid vertical, cutting some portion of chris
“The dry guy” what watch are you wearing?
When are you going to do another video with your Pops? Those have always been my favorite.
I love that JUC bracelet. I’d love to get one in YG or WG but unsure how it’ll look on me.
Why most people prefer Bark and Jack? Because he is showing real watches!
I prefer Christian and Wei Koh to B&J because they come with just the right amount of pretentiousness. Adrian is great though.
If you're a Brit, these guys are the Beavis and Butthead of watch appreciation. By contrast, Adrian is the Labrador bounding into the family living room after a quick dip in the village pond. Take your pick.
Are tha hands on the Rolex original? They look great! Considering the patina on the indecis and numerals look tarnished. I just dont know about the size at 34 of most bublebacks.
TPG tried to be Rolex in the watch game, but marketing was funny. Can't wait to see
Tudor is the black bay company and it’s only the 58 that has it’s proportions sorted. The others are way way to tall and top heavy. They are no way near Omega on any level as much as I like my 58 navy.
Michael , where on the cape are you from ? -> you should have the 'curator' relocate to chatham. ~ JDS/CT
I gotta get one of those Cork straps...by far the coolest thing I've seen
Rolex is playing the exclusivity game. My question is how much would they charge, Today, for a new rolex oyster perpetual 41 at an AD. retail for one on the official webpage is 5900usd. How much extra could they be charging someone that walks into a AD just for a more affordable oyster perpetual, a Explorer stainless steel, or a Airking. Most people wouldn't want to play the waitlist game.
Cool video guys 😁
How about this. Tudor catching the crumbs at the success of the Rolex pie? Great video guys. Tudor is already working their way into what the preceramic Rolexes were.
In no way does the BB Bronze present to me as a budget root beer. The differences are seemingly endless and I see no similarities whatsoever.
You don’t think that the Oyster case, Oyster bracelet, brown and rose color scheme and historical relationship makes them similar?
@@TheoandHarris if you're going based on oyster case and bracelet then you could say it's a budget "insert any Rolex." One is a two tone steel and gold GMT with bi color ceramic bezel, completely different black dial layout and date. While the other is a simple time only bronze watch with 3,6,9 brown dial layout. Struggle to see the similarities or how anyone after a rootbeer who couldn't afford one could convince themselves this is a good budget alternative.
The eagle patek looks f****** ridiculous, if I saw somebody wearing that I would assume it was a quartz watch with a fake leather band and made of plastic 😆
« 97 outside » says Michael, checking his watch. 😳
Watching these dudes makes us miss Anna even more
First automatic movement was Breguet not rolex
Brequet was one of the first automatic movements for pocket watches, so you are correct (and I believe one of the best automatic movement designs). Harwood (with the help of a Swiss company called Fortis) was the first wristwatch that had an automatic movement. Rolex was NOT the first, Rolex improved on Harwood's design about 2 years later. Source: Wikipedia.
I bought Turdor because I couldn't get a Rolex. Now I'm dumping Tudor for Omega.
Excellent move.
All bronze Tudor likened to a Rootbeer GMT lmao
The eagle is a Patek Ph. I’d wear the fishdial with people who had a sense of humour.
I feel like T and H might be the only “journalists” with the balls to call out watch manufacturers where they have messed up. Tudor for example, the 925 silver Black Bay. In their press release they float that they have come up with an alloy that “use does not affect the appearance of the case of the Black Bay Fifty-Eight 925” inferring that it won’t tarnish like normal 925 silver. However now a lot of owners barely months into ownership are get some horrendous tarnishing. Which is fine IF Tudor didn’t try and brag that they had come up with something special. HODINKEE, Fratello , Bark and Jack etc are have a vested interest in kissing ass but I think Christian could step on toes. I like that. Complete respect.
"it's the same bracelet from the standard 58" well yes and no, looks identical but has a very inventive slide adjustment on the fly
show Anna so we know shes alive!
This should be the top comment
Rolex's strategy has been clear for a while: Patek-level exclusivity for a mass-produced product. Better to lock in a few high margin sales to wealthy people, oligarchs, and well-to-do collectors who can all be relied on to snap up several new releases every year instead of the masses of middle class strivers whose spending is subject to economic instability and would've gotten one steel sports as a lifetime achievement. Those people can buy Tudor instead.
Heineken would be a better collaboration model. You know very well how the watch industry value green this year.
New vibe: "Patagonia Philippe"
So...I learned at 14:10 that you can buy an RGM 250v from TH for $4750...or you can buy it direct from RGM, full warranty from the maker (probably even make an appointment and get to meet Roland) for $3500
Choose wisely my friends
Oooof! Looking into that now. Will amend if necessary!
Love these guys! Mike is such a legendary addition to an already awsome crew. #IronSnail4Lyf
The only reason I think Omega will always be ahead of Tudor is because of clout. Omega as a brand has its own merits (James Bond, the moon, etc.). Tudor as a brand advertises to most other people you can’t afford a Rolex.
The not being able to afford a Rolex argument....yawn. Maybe some people don't want to be seen wearing a Rolex. If someone is willing to pay $4k-$16k for a Black Bay, I'd say they're able to spend the same money on a Rolex.
@@Angry_Gnome Like it or not, it’s a valid argument. Could someone genuinely prefer Tudor over Rolex? Absolutely. But that won’t stop most people from thinking you settled. Plus, anyone who would genuinely pay $16k for a BB needs to get their head examined…
@@Angry_Gnome Totally agree with your comment , people that say Tudor is poor man's Rolex doesn't really understand the brand and their strategy. Rolex is completing with likes of AP and Patek ......Tudor is taking risks , innovating and more strongly marketed to complete with Omega and Breitling to fill that gap. Omega is not on Rolex level now , Rolex & Tudor has a aligned strategy.
@@TheJohnGalt1945 It's not even so much as settling for a Tudor...you could make a valid argument that a BB58 is nicer than a no date Sub. It's personal preference, and the fact that you can actually find a BB58 with a little effort doesn't hurt. I wouldn't call that settling, but the fact that you can't even find a Sub is definitely a factor, and anyone willing to pay thousands over retail for one on the gray market is just foolish, IMO.
@@matty89ng You’re delusional if you think Rolex is competing with AP or Patek. They don’t have anywhere near the fit and finish, nor the engineering (no perpetual calendar, no tourbillon, etc.) to even come close. The only reason Rolex is even mentioned in the same sentence as AP and Patek is because they make up for their lack of quality with quantity and marketing.
Rolex and Tudor may have an aligned strategy, but the latter will be living in the shadow of its big sister for the foreseeable future.
Fortis was the first wrist watch with an automatic movement, not Rolex.
Yes -- or Fortis was the Swiss company that worked with Harwood to become the first wrist watch with an automatic movement. Took me less than a minute to look that one up on Wikipedia. :-)
Grand Seiko is my thing tbh I dont even own a Rolley.
much love for' this channel
Unfortunately my Dad doesn't like Budweiser.
What is funny is if Rolex changed the colour of a screw in a bracelet people would lose their minds and go on a waiting list.
The Kill Bill movies might be my favorite movies of all time.
You are lucky I like you so much Christian.
Hahahahhaha please tell me why! I will rewatch!!
@@TheoandHarris Because it is gratuitously violent and silly at times, and then switches on a dime to be deeply emotional and touching the next moment. I am also just a huge Tarantino fan! Added bonus, I like ninjas and assassins :D
@@TheoandHarris Oh, and as an art major, I always appreciated how aggressive the color theory is, the Bruce Lee type yellow and black suit Uma wears, when everything goes black and white suddenly. The videography is also super experimental with some of the shots. It really was a trailblazing movie all around.
I don’t think I can trust a guy who doesn’t wear underwear
@Watch Geek I wear underwear to sleep
Im controlling this contest😎⌚️✌️
yes, taking the watch to a jeweller frequently to remove tarnish is a big deal. no one wants the hassle of doing that frequently and losing the watch for a week, ridiculous. bronze is nothing more than a gimmick in wrist watches, will avoid like the plague!
As much as Rolex pushes Tudor, the average consumer doesn’t even know what Tudor is let alone that Rolex owns them. I'm not saying that Tudor does not make quality watches, but it was just recently that Tudor even came back to the US market. Rolex is very smart in 'reviving' Tudor as it keeps the Rolex brand premium and unattainable, which therefore makes the little brother Tudor the attainable 'Rolex'. To compare Tudor to Omega is a joke. Omega has history and is a premium watch maker and Tudor will always be a budget Rolex.
Taking the emotion out of the comparison, and viewing the comparison broadly, it is not "a joke" to compare Tudor and Omega. What exactly Tudor will surpass Omega in was not defined, but I can definitely see sometime in the future Tudor surpassing Omega in sales units and possibly dollars. I can opine that the Speedmaster is Omegas Black Bay. Is the Speedmasters movement more innovative and complex than anything Tudor installs in their watches, yes, but the layman usually doesn't care. And to state that Tudor will always be a budget Rolex, well of course, it's one of the reasons for Tudors creation...
@@joserangel7408 Back to my point, the average watch buyer will pick Omega over Tudor simply because of brand recognition. People know that 007 wears one and that the astronauts wore one on the moon. There is a history that Omega has that Tudor simply can't recreate. Tudor would be on the level of Oris, Tag and Breitling without the Rolex backing. The new ceramic BB now comes Metas certified.What brand was Metas certified first?...See Tudor does not innovate. They copy and ride coattails. Tudor really only cares about the Black Bay. The other lines do not really get any love. The Pelagos is actually a very nice watch. Bottom line is that Omega is a Rolex rival and Tudor is simply not and I doubt will ever be.
I don't think you read my comment. You didn't address anything I wrote. I agree that Omega is an innovator, especially in regards to movements. Of course Omega has more history behind it, I don't disagree. Omega is a solid watch brand, without a doubt. Your scenario about what the Tudor brand would be without the Rolex backing isn't valid, because that isn't the case or the universe we live in. That's like me attempting to argue/debate what Omega would be without the history, which I won't, because that's not the reality. Reread my initial reply. I'll also add this statement/opinion: It is more likely that Tudor "catches up" to Omega than Omega "catches up" to Rolex.
@@joserangel7408 I understand your comments, but I don' think you got mine. The reason we are going back and forth about Tudor vs Omega is because Rolex is the sister company to Tudor. Plain and simple. We can compare BB to Speedmaster and Pelagos to Seamaster. Sure, but the 'buzz' regarding Tudor is not because Tudor grew as a company itself like Omega did, but rather they had major help from the juggernaut of Luxury watches. Even with Rolexes help they are not where Omega stands. As a brand Tudor without Rolex would be grouped with Oris, Zenith, etc.. The only reason Tudor gets the love that it does is because of Rolex. Tudor has not done anything revolutionary in their watchmaking. Both Tudor and Omega make nice timepieces, but you would not be able to set Tudor apart from other Swiss brands if it was not for the tie to Rolex. To your point of Tudor catching Omega then Omega catching Rolex again proves my point. Easier to catch up (not likely) if your big brother tells you what to make rather than creating something unique. FYI I appreciate all 3 brands. You can disagree all you want, but it's a fact. Look at the other comments below. Many have the same viewpoint as me.
We'll agree to disagree. The market dictates price/prestige/influence/favor and Tudor, with the help of Rolex, will be able to increase all of the aforementioned qualities with ease. Omega has essentially hit a plateau, Tudor still has room to grow and continue to take market share. OMEGA is supposed to be a flagship brand like Rolex, but the fact we are even discussing a SUB brand of Rolex potentially being on par with Omega is a testament in itself. Omega has a 78 year headstart on Tudor and that doesn't include the hiatus Tudor took from the US market. I'm downsizing my personal collection and I am consigning 5 watches:
Rolex 1601
Tudor oysterprince
Omega Speedmaster
Cartier Tank Solo
Bvlgari Octo Solotempo
I'll let you take a guess at which one of those has appreciated the least.
50 bucks a month is ridiculous and indulgent!!!
Agree with Christian re the beer...keep your IPA's, I'm a leading brand guy
IPAs are disgusting. I’m convinced it’s all a big, campy gag by “beer guys” to show to each other that they’re all “in” the gang.
I love this video and I love watches
That Rover strap better be up to AC3 standards! Superchat and donate to keep the horned one on the Tubes
If Tudor made more watches 10 to 12 mm thickness they would pass omega
Seriously. Their Tudor GMT is top heavy and is a slab. Once Tudor fixes their thickness issue and case dimensions, then we have a more viable Omega competitor.
Tudor can't compete with Omega, the only watch Tudor really sell is the black bay which is getting boring now. Tudor is competing with Longines, Who make far more interesting watches than Tudor.
A few decades ago the war was between Rolex and Omega.
Now it's Tudor Vs Omega.
So Rolex won.....
It's still Rolex vs Omega, it's tudor vs Longines
@@coffeeboyclips1973 I don't think so basically. Longines watches are in the range of £1,000 to £3,000 and Tudor is mainly over £3,000.
@@stavrosmaiden exactly, Longines makes more interesting and better looking watches that cost less than a Tudor. Apart from the black bay, which is getting boring now, nobody buys any other Tudor.
@@coffeeboyclips1973 in the end it's a matter of preference but longines is way back comparing to tudor.
My problem with longines (and the Swatch group in general) is that they have too many models and variations of each model.
Apart from that, the price tag of Tudor is such that one who is ready to buy a longines, can wait a bit longer and buy s Tudor. Don't forget that all that matters in collecting watches is the status of the brand and Tudor is better...
Being part of the Swatch group has badly affected some brands including longines.
@@stavrosmaiden not sure about Tudors brand status, most people have not heard of Tudor, whereas they have Longines. I can afford to buy omega, Rolex and tudor but I prefer Longines, I buy the watches I like and not the status of the brand.
You deserve a Rolex :) lol love you guys
One of these guys looks like a Robert Downey Jr lookalike covered in fake tan pretending to be in a cologne commercial.
While I love Tudor, the closeness to Rolex is not always good, people buy Omegas because they went to the moon, because of James Bond in the last 30 years, because of the amazing quality for dollar, and the innovation, also the name that is often spoken as Rolex only rival, Rolex has even more of those credentials than Omega, but Tudor doesn't, Tudor right now is Rolex little brother, and the home of the Black Bay, that's it, nothing else, and while I love the Tudor style burgundy, and the pelagos, I can't actually say Tudor is even in the same ballpark as Omega when you talk anything other than the Black Bay.
Ok...what does Omega have beyond the Speedmaster and its 2000 iterations and the Seamaster?
@@Angry_Gnome That's the thing, the aquaterra is different enough of a watch to be another watch, so it's the planet ocean, the Seamaster 300 is really on a different level as well, so are the world timers, and the constellation is a respectable name as well, not the case with Tudor at all, you see, you don't need 500 lines of watches, even Rolex has only half a dozen or so heavy hitters and a couple fun ones, the problem is having just one line carrying everything, of course the Seamaster 300, the aquaterra, and the speedmaster are the main Omega lines, with the planet ocean almost there, the problem is having just 1, and let's face it the Tudor Pelagos is way too close in looks to the black bay, the other lines are WAY too close in looks to Rolex, Tudor is today a 1 hit wonder, even though I love some of the watches they have.
@@pedrothevenard Fair enough...I see your point.
@@pedrothevenard We can't leave out The Omega Railmaster. That watch is so comfortable and a great alternative to the Explorer 1
I love the aqua terra and admire the brand, but most of their watches just arent for me looks wise.
Rolex has left so much space in the market by going up market,even though the QC on their watches is shit
Omega is too advanced for Tudor to take on
Omega eats Tudor alive still
Granted Tudor really have come along over the last 5 years now but they have not been a constant like omega or Rolex
My money is on omega all the way
What is going on with the haircuts?? the only difference is one shirt button!!! lol
Does it look cool… yes. If Im going to have a metal I have to look after… then it’s gold.
Im here baby....now wheres my day date rolex??????
Tudor should rerelease the OysterThin.
Glad about the clasp, but the riveted bracelet is meh
Budweiser isn't beer!
I own 6 Rolex watches and somehow still always desire a Tudor.
I have a tudor pelagos - I think its a great piece. happy hunting ~ JDS/CT
Same here, and still want that new French navy blue tudor. Its slick. But scared to buy because I need the money around when I get a call for a rolex. Thats the only issue
@@tsouverain5196 this recently happened to me. Now I have a Pepsi and a Tudor 925
@@frtorres87 men this is positive addiction
They’re a nice couple
My respect and opinion of Christian sky rocketed just on the Kill Bill comment :)
Christian curator of the Theo and Harris watch shop to you, pleb
Is Ana still part of T&H?
I’m I the only one thinking that the Patek Philippe hand crafted line looks awful?!
Theo, have you drank Asahi?
what is Christians bracelet? I love that thing.
Cartier Juste un clou
Christian ‘The Hoff’ Zeron 😂