HOW TO: BIG HP 408 STROKER FORD!
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- STEP BY STEP DYNO RESULTS-EACH UPGRADE. 408 FORD, INTAKE, CAM, NITROUS. HOW DO YOU MAKE NEAR 800 HP WITH A 408 STROKER? HOW MUCH IS EACH MODIFICATION WORTH? WHAT ARE THE TRADE-OFFS ASSOCIATED WITH EACH MOD? HOW MUCH TORQUE DOES A 408 MAKE? DUAL PLANE INTAKE vs SINGLE PLANE INTAKE & STAGE 3 CAM vs STAGE 5 CAM TESTS!
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I like that statement.."if it makes more Tq than Hp there is still more performance to be gained"...
it is the truth. along with, "HP sells engines, Torque rules the street" :) If you want MPH at the strip, build for HP. If you want to chop the seconds, work on torque and launch to win at the starting line. For the street, focus on torque at low RPMs, and get the gas mileage for "free"....and use junkyard OEM parts to do it with.
Pontiac is best if your speed shop is the junkyard.
@@johntempest267 if you wanna go slow
@@ryangulley2051
Heh, good one.
.......effing inbred.
Yes, on a Big-Bang 351 test! Thanks for all of the great tests, Richard!👍
I like how well organized they are its easy to go back and find old vidys in the playlists
A BIG THANK YOU
I want one with an rpm air gap. Victor Jr & super victor intake.
If Richard’s videos aren’t essential service, nothing is.
Yes yes yes 351W Big Bang PLEASE!!!
RPM Air gap is known to make a lot of torque! It's a good design. It was cool to see the TFS single plane had almost the same peak torque and simply shifted the curve to the right by 1000 rpm.
B4 I even watch this you are the man Richard 💯
Legend
John Sheetz RIGHT...RIGHT💯💯
No doubt
Now that I’ve watched it...NICE!!! Richard we made over a 1000 crank hp on a 410 for 3 or 4 years no problems...with a girdle of course lol I love seeing good power coming out of a Ford engine 💪🏻💪🏻
BW MadDog [retired] you see the picture icon by my name? That was a stock block 393 that accidentally made 1500hp and we didn’t know we were getting bad data we had a short in the data logger and well she split😱👀😝
For every success story, there are others where someone found the "friday afternoon" or "monday morning" block. In the old days, folks worked with what was in the junkyard, but today a Dart 363 block that can go out to 440 cid is easy enough to obtain. I know its cool to gamble, but I can't dump money into machining, girdles and Hard Blok just to have it pop like a pimple in a year--its never cheap when you do the job twice.
Albert Gaspar I agree I just worked with what I had and budget but today it’s grown into a 468cid Dart Iron Eagle block monster that on motor made 1500hp but I’m in the process of switching to twin 72/74 or 76/74 I’m not for sure yet.
Yeah, i should say, everyone's free to do what they want and racing is expensive, but no one loves the racer who oils down the track :) As for a street engine, there's no E85 around here and so that means $12 a gallon for anything over 93 octane. If I want to make big numbers and not just toss together leftover parts (nothing wrong with that, its why i keep buying cheap parts for the day i get another car that will take 'em all) for the street, i'll go big on displacement and then a power adder...that typically means more off-idle torque and with a roller cam (with steep ramps that shrink duration like the old variable duration lifters but give a higher redline than those flat tappets), less need for boost but a real focus on valve springs to keep the valves following orders. Until I hit the track and can dump the gas for 100 octane and then crank up the power adder.
That's my take on it, maybe others have even better ideas.
Albert Gaspar I’m a solid lift roller cam kinda guy with big lift with a REALLY BAD ASS CHOP that beats the ground but makes big power where it counts...middle of the run and on but I like enough to get you off the brake. The cam I’m running now is a Crower special grind duel pattern in the 880s & 890s lift. That’s where you run into spring control problems but my dads best friends with an old IHRA ProStock champion from the 80s and he built his own engines and still has a machine shop and he helps us with all our head work. Doug Kirk is his name & he’s a under study of Bob Glidden so I’m covered on all my heads and intake stuff lol I’d love to find me an old RDI block, those take some abuse 👀👀
Richard, great build. I remember reading about this one, I think it was called the "LS Slayer" or something in your article. I'm building a similar combo right now for my 68 Mustang, F4TE block, Eagle crank and rods, Mahle pistons, AFR 205 heads, and a Super Vic intake. Love your channel, bring on the tests!
Im doing a similar build for my 68 mustang too! Im probably further behind so let us know how it goes bud.
Keep the Ford stuff coming!!!!
302 video to 408 video, nice upgrade in video content, thanks I needed that!
FORD POWER BABY !!! Thanks for the videos Richard.
I love the crazy sounding rave techno music! Its fitting
So helpful I’m building a 408 right now and trying to hit 600+ hp
Richard!! Great vid as always. Love the blue oval stuff!!!
Richard Fordener has a nice ring to it.
Excellent videos Richard
Thank you Richard! The 1st combo is almost identical to what im building and i think the 1st combo will be the most fun in a 1971 f100
its nice to know roughly what I was making thanks for this test difference I had was a flat top piston this also explains why it felt like it didn't come alive until around 4k
Ive been thinking about doing a 351 408 set up on a car that people mostly dont like cause why not and now you definitely just showed me exactly why i should you are a bad ass richard thanks man! As always content rocks man!
Great video Sir. Thankyou for all that you do!!!!!! I'm chomping at the bit for the efi ford 300 six series of tests!!!! With enough cam to turn 5500, the right t4 based turbo, and all-the-boost, it will be a bad-ass. Get ready Cummins fans😁
I can't wait either. It's still going to be really limited still by the head port flow, valve shrouding and intake manifold flow and runner length, though.
Great stuff Richard !!!
Awesome content ,love the channel and Yes to the big bang!!
YES BIG BANG! currently I am gathering parts for a 408w build. It should be fun in my 70 Torino.
Awesome videos. Loved the block splitting video and sbf content lately
408 Windsor power great video miss ford engines in mustangs.
your videos are really helping to dial in my next build! thanks so much!
Great content! I love the Ford stuff. Definitely would like to see more Big Bang 351.
Nicely done.
It would have been nice to see how this motor would have done with a open spacer on the rpm intake! Love this video but my favorite is the 5.0 block cracking video! Thanks Richard keep up the hard work
Fell in love with the carburetor setups ironically I cant seem to get rid of this complete ls6 intake manifold thought everyone loved efi 🤣
Love the SBF & Windsor content!
Hell yes I want to see you redo the 351w big bang! Thanks as always
Thank you Richard for another interesting Ford SB test. Would love to see header test with 1/58 to 1 3/4 step header added after installing single plane to see if you can pick up torque and not loose the top HP gain. 👍
Great video! I know I am repeating myself but would love to see a 351w with cleveland style heads (CLEVOR).....
The original dyno test shows EXACTLY the torque curve I need to make my Panther platform the sweetest daily driver I've ever had.
The techno music is perfect.
Great video
These videos are a great help. I'm in the research stage of building a 408w w/ a supercharger with the goal of 750-800hp. The combination with your "stage 4" cam, looks perfect for me, or at least gets me in the right direction. Thanks for the huge time saver!
that is likely bigger than you need with a blower
@@richardholdener1727 thanks for the tip. Guessing the first cam in this video might do the trick then? 🤔
OMG, I love your videos. I've been trying to tell people for years that on a larger motor with a serious cam a single plane is the way to go. If your running a small block engine you might want to run that dual plane to enhance the torque down low where you do most of your driving but with the big inch motors making 300-400 ft/lbs. down low you'll just spin your tires. Better to soften up the motor down low and let that sucker eat up high. Thanks much for this test, now I have something to show those folks that read to many magazines.
Gives me much inspiration. Currently waiting in my closet are 11r205s, morel lifters, tfs stage 4 cam, super vic intake etc...next on deck is a sbf408.
Ever get that combo together?
thanks for the FORD VIDEO
Yes! Would like to see you push the limits of the 351w roller block! Inquiring minds want to know and Dulcich! Lol
Thank you again Mr holdener
5:58 What a glorious melody 😍
Those are nice cylinder heads. The quench pads and chambers are sweet. The 236 cam with the single plane setup is cherry. Shifting at 6200, it's a sealed deal, even on a street engine. Spraying at 4500 RPM is the foam on the cappuccino for that deal.
Richard this thing really proves to people that you can keep a SBF and still make power at a junkyard budget without putting a chevy powerplant swap in(whether it be LS or SBC)......The 351 stroked with a turbo or 2 or a Nitrous shot or a old school Vortech (pullied up) to make 12-14 lbs can really be a blast on the street and in all fairness will compete in street grudge racing classes in the right chassis combo!!....Thank you for the great information and video showing people that Ford can still compete in a LS happy world out there💪💪
My 351W in my 96 E350 van over heated and burned the piston rings so I put a Coast performance 408 stroker in it with TFS heads and an Edelbrock 750cfm carb with edelbrock Vic Jr cylinder heads and TFS camshaft. Was a bad ass engine. Really helped with torque down low. Also helped with torque up high as well. I’m pretty sure it made around 450-500hp and 500-550 torque. Would still rev to 6250 no problem, didnt ever let it run out that high too much because it was an all cast rotating assembly.
I think you should put that engine in my 1964 ranchero Richard lol. Nice show man! Always love your informative combinations. Always looking forward to your next builds/videos!
thnx-it went in a Mustang
I want to see you revisit the Big Bang on this also! Thanks Richard!
I had an efi 408 with a s trim back in the late 90s... Most fun I ever had with my clothes on...Lol
I continue to be amazed at where the little 351W stands today as a performance engine. In 1973 I purchased a used 1970 Mach 1 with the 351W. At that time there were basically NO companies providing aftermarket speed parts like heads and cams. About all I could do was add a mediocre dual plane intake, 700 Holley and headers which didn’t do much to help the anemic 250 (GROSS) HP factory rating. The Cleveland small block got all the love back then. The 351 Windsor was considered a “truck” engine not unlike the 390 FE. Oh what I would have given to gave had an engine like in this test. I would have been king of the streets!
*600 Holley
Richard not disappointing!
Richard thanks so much for the content. Could you do a video on ring flutter and preventative measures and what causes the bores to become oval shaped in regards to stroke engines? Thanks again.
Nice engine for the track or upsetting hellcats on Woodward ! Yup I am from the D! 331 fox body !
Thanks again Richard!! God I Love these videos!!
Love the 351 Windsor... It is a mini brute...
Yes to the Big Bang ford. Big Bang everything!
YEEEEESSSS!!! YOURE THE MAN RICHARD!!!
You would not believe this but those heads, cam, and carb in combination are EXACTLY what I want to know about and oooon a 408 even!!! You just made my day, month, year! I knew that setup would make 600!!! Thank you Richard!
happy to help
@@richardholdener1727 Richard what do you think about that same cam with 1.73 rockers on a 11.5-1 418 with same top end?
@Jeff Kopis well they make 1.73s for sbf so.....
Man, seeing this is a kick to the nuts. I am building a 388w (3.75 stroke, 4.060 bore - dart block and afr 185 heads) and was hoping to make 525-550 with about the same size cam (slightly less duration, but slightly more lift - .595 on the intake and I think 232 on the duration). I now realize I will be lucky to break 500 hp with that.
More cam, turn it higher@?
definitely revisit the big bang 351!
nice 408 combo!
Great test. About the time I thought “ I wonder what a 0.620-0.650 lift cam with a little more duration would do for this combination.” Yo came up with the stouter cam you run. Another test with more compression ratio( around 12.0:1) and a fogger system would be interesting Of course a turbo or centrifugal compressor with at least 25 psi boost would really tweak the ears on that Ford. As always thank you for making us think. I really enjoy your videos.
Jeff Kopis Mr Holden specifically asks for comments/suggestions from his viewers. I really enjoy his videos. They are not only educational but myth busting and thought provoking. So when he asks an opinion or our thoughts there really is no need to become upset when his viewers respond. Sometimes you can learn much from some of the comments made by others. The comments also serve as a topic for future video ideas. Most comments are not intended to be disrespectful, but instead a sharing of information, knowledge or ideas. Some of his videos really do make me think, give new ideas and in general exercise those three brain cell I have lol. Thank you for your comment. Just an old man sharing his thoughts out loud.
Awesome!
Please do much more 351w testing! This was interesting to me since I run a nicely built 408w NA for road racing. It's a solid roller motor with .609 total lift from the custom cam and has the exact same 205cc runners on my RHS heads. I've been a little worried to rev it out to 7k like it was intended from hearing about main cap walk. Any experience with the RPM limits of these factory late model 351w blocks?
Lets see where that 351W roller block sits on the strength department. Got my hand way up! Good series of dyno tests to show what happens when you have one of the combo too small. If you're looking for good torque for the street there's no doubt the RPM Air gap is the way to go. Need more top end? Maybe could have put an open hole spacer on it, maybe even a 2 or 3 inch spacer just for the track? Again, thanks for posting! Nice vid!
what about for a street 408 would you still use the rpm air gap?
@@chriswhynder8311 Super Victor seems to be the most popular. Tons of guys using both the EFI version and carb style super victor.
Over 400ci deserves a single plane intake :)
Especially if it's going in a light car with a stick. Like my mustang ;)
Richard, if you haven't done it already you need to do a big bang test with a 350 SBC. Twin turbo, the whole she-bang.
Can’t wait for you do the Big Bang test again with the 351w
Thanks! This video is another exceptional blast of information.
A re-run on the individual runner, "stack", injection systems might be fun if you use the two dyno runs with dual and single plane curves as reference. What stack length wins if you are looking for best average power4000-6000rpm? What about 3000-6000? How about 5000-6500?
GOOD video Richard,NOW 408 CLEVELAND PLEASE
Do You Think The Cleveland Would Be Faster?
Love the intro music
Yes more stuff
I just picked up 351 Cleveland. That's what I plan to build.
Bring on the big bang! This video gave me an "other guys" idea too. Why not do a 300 I6 Ford? Better yet...... Ford vs Chevy straight six battle? Love the videos. Keep em coming.
Better yet! I6 battle with boost and no2!
Big bang!!
Big bang!!!
Big bang!!!!
Yes a BIG BANG 351 would be awesome!
Wow, this was almost my exact setup.
Richard Holdener, I would love to see a max effort 351 build with a stock block 351. Single big turbo, EFI, maybe even Boss / Cleveland style aluminum heads. It would be nice to show that the old 351 can still hang with any of the LS Combinations. Its such a versatile engine, and can be built to make so much power. Not to mention its going to be lighter than a big block. I only wish Ford would have continued the production of this engine, and developed a factory aluminum block, similar to the Teksid 4.6 block. Then we would all have a serious and modern platform to work with.
I run a fuel injected 438windsor in my 68 mustang with a 4k stall th400 410 gears, afr 220 heads, super victor efi, eddy elbow, accufab tb, 11.5:1 compression, comp cams xr292r. Made 530wheel. Would of made 560wheel with stick, but slower. Runs on 93 octane, soon to switch to e85. Hoping 550wheel on e85. Car made 460lbs torque at wheel. Burns through 275 Mickeys in 500 miles.
It would be pretty awesome if guys like yourself were able to weigh each engine as tested including major parts changes so guys such as myself could have a database for which the origin is known. Almost every list of engine weights I can find online has been "borrowed" from the same incomplete lists which has been copy-and-pasted from yet another site which got their list from some other unknown site. Often with multiple vastly different weights for the same engines in the same list.
Other than that, you keep answering almost every engine based question I have ever thought about !
Here's a few engines that I hope to see you take on;
3.5 litre Buick/Rover aluminum V8,
Ford Barra straight six,
and the Ford 4.9 (300) straight six.
The 4.9 might be hard to find . . . I have heard they used to cut up 351 Cleveland heads, put them back together and bolt them on the 4,9 !
You need to add that a street motor wants more tq. Even at the beginning of your dyno run it is making good tq. That engine for the street is a good strong safe street engine. I have commented before chasing hp takes you in to a higher rpm range. This changes all the related parts. Stall converter, gear ratio if you want a good street car. That engine is perfect. for a 408w.
Richard! It's time to do another Big-Bang 351 Test!!!!
I would love to see the big bang 351 with all the boost and then some to see what she'll hold.
I run a fuel injected 438windsor in my 68 mustang with a 4k stall th400 410 gears, afr 220 heads, super victor efi, eddy elbow, accufab tb, 11.5:1 compression, comp cams xr292r. Made 530wheel. Would of made 560wheel with stick, but slower. Runs on 93 octane, soon to switch to e85. Hoping 550wheel on e85. Car made 460lbs torque at wheel. Burns through 275 Mickeys in 500 miles.
Car weighs 3k lbs. Caltracs suspension Eaton trutrac diff. Street car and i go through burger drive thru's with it and grocery shopping. Rear mickeys go real fast though. Check valves every 1500 miles spot on.
408 Big Bang !!!!!!!!!!!
Love the videos Richard l. Thank you for all the hard work and info!!!What is the idle quality on the 600 hp package ?
not great-the cam is big
Would LOVE to see you revisit the 351 and also possibly "Big Bang" a 5.0 (original and modern) correctly to see where it actually fails...
I love your posts and have watched many of them. The one constant thing I see is more power, but it is just moving the power higher but down the RPM range. This is great for track cars, but for street cars this is making a less street friendly car. You should talk about rear end gear ratios. You are loosing low end torque for horsepower. Torque makes the car move, horsepower takes over once the car is moving. Now there is a need for a stall converter or in the case of manual transmission higher revs to leave a stop light. For every action there is a reaction. I think that many less experienced viewers will not understand the relationship between the loss of torque and the gain of horsepower. Please explain this in your future posts. Thanx!
I definitely want to see the 351 Big Bang!!!! Let’s see just how much it can take before it breaks!!!!
The music while talking about the engines was hilarious
🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥🔥
big bang everything
From what I recall the Windsor motor with an aftermarket Cleveland head will make a shit load of power. Enough power that even the top build LS is just shy of its power NA on pump gas. Over 800hp in 460ci setup. It was an iron block with CHI 400 heads.
that's a lot but race combos at 440 inches are making north of 1100 hp
Saturday late night gang lol Richard when are we gonna see that 429?
Liked this one rich!. the 408 fro my cousin that i b uilt was basically identical. I used some power product heads that i ported vs the trickflows, but cam and comp. everything identical. It will blow the tires off/ and it 's in a 68 f 100. thx
The 408 with dual plane would be sweet in a '79 F-250. The 408 with nitrous would be wild in a back halved Ranger with slicks and a roll cage at the track.
Want to see you revisit the Big Bang 351 I really think there could be more in it
the build i was looking for with out no 2 . do the big bang
Big bang all the things