hot take: they should wait until A2 package buyers have a month or two to test server functionality before opening up more sales. then they could have an accurate idea of how many more players they want before they inevitably cap the A2 key sales. My guess though, is $50.
I personally will never pay for Alpha/Beta access. I'm not going to pay to try and find bugs in an unfinished game. Companies use to have to pay people to do the same testing, now they realize people are dumb enough to pay them.
I guess the difference is in the fact you also get the game. People are acting like Alpha Tests are separated from the game, but in my experience you buy in and then that gets you the game when it releases.
@jamesn3122 I agree with both. It sucks to pay to test, but a lot of early buy ins end up being cheaper in the long run. The thing with ashes though is that as of to date, it will not have a box cost so that actually should decrease the value of keys and early buy in unless of course it still comes with sub time. Kickstarter got lifetime subs for cheaper than the most recent packs that only gave 6-9 months of sub.
I like the fact that more people are going to test the game. I don't, however, agree with the fact that they'll sell A2 access *_BEFORE_* package buyers get a chance to play. People paid hundreds of dollars for the only way that existed to get access to the start of A2 (vaguely stating that there might be ways to get into the testing phases in the future is not something you could count on), and now they'll give access to A2 simultaneously with people that paid way less. Yes, older backers also bought skins etc, but when will we see those? In 4 years? 5? Letting new buyers in at a later stage (A2.1 for example) is the perfect solution in my opinion.
@@TheoryForge That's great to hear! I think it's a very fair and reasonable approach. I posted it on the AoC forum as well, and most people heavily disagreed and thought I was a special snowflake. Well, we'll see what Intrepid does, I'm fine either way.
Loved the video, it was a great look at different games and what they charged for Alpha access. However, I take a little different view on the framing you used for price. You said that because Ashes is a "true alpha" the cost should be higher to "attract the kind of players Intrepid is looking for". I would argue that because this is a "true alpha", it doesn't have the content available to charge a high price. Either way, I appreciate your perspective and liked the video.
That is a very valid view. Content does matter when money is involved. I would still say above $20, but taking content into account, maybe $50 sounds better than $75. Thanks for watching!
Most MMO that allowed beta access were priced over 50E (it did offer usually like early access and some things but it was mostly fluff to make the price seem less spicy ). I'd be amazed if the a2 access is less than 100E . I would only see that as possible if the access is limited in some nature (only 2 weeks, 1month, no access to beta2 or beta1). Also do not forget they said that alpha 2 will persist until release and then will transition to a test server if I remember correctly from past streams (haven't followed as closely anymore so I do not know if this changed).
The will offer Alpha access at whatever it takes to get the testers they need. It will start off below the pre-purchase cost and will drop down in stages, to inspire more testers until they get the number they need. Potentially, all the way down to $0. These test packages will not give access to the beta test. The process will be repeated if they need more testers in Beta 1 and Beta 2. This way they preserve the value of the original test packages, and they justify the reduced value of the new Alpha packages. Supply and Demand will set the price, not what anyone's idea of what subjectively Alpha access should cost.
The price will matter to a lot of people for sure, not just because of the cost but also the value proposition of just getting access to play early. The A2 will be Non-NDA so my hope is simply that they start the keys a few weeks before launch and keep it open for a few weeks after launch so everyone has a clear understanding of what they are buying into and maybe help people make the decision of saying yes or no. Btw i fully expect to pay $60 to be able to play until release but i also didnt care about the cosmetics or game time, ive simply always just wanted the key. Please Steven don't put an access limit on the new Keys A2 means A2.
I'd say ~$20-30 for 2 full weekends of access (friday through sunday) with a high chance of getting into future testing phases if you gave good feedback during your access.
Depends the state of game, studio, duration, purpose and many more. For this situation about AoC i think alpha 2 should be same price as a game like 40-80 dollars around. Something tragic/funny that i noticed tho is that the people who say all the time "i can pay more than 15 dollars per month" or "this game should have a higher sub like 30-50 dollars cause i would pay that amount easy" are the same people who now cry in the idea that alpha 2 key will cost less than what they pay before... which is totaly fair cause newcomers will have only A2 key and nothing more so we expect a fair price less than 80 dollars. Ofc they can also pay us to test better the game that works too.
Considering an upgrade from A2 to A1 was $125 I would expect a higher price point. Personally though, idc if it's free even after I've already purchased the previous packs. As long as we get enough data for the game to be good.
its not only an alpha test. Its more like a persistent pre access to the next big thing since 2004, years before the final version will launch. I think the price for key only will be 39 $
They put themself in a difficult spot, to low can cause backlash from existing pack owners who were under the assumption there last chance to buy in at start of A2 was start of this year and sold cosmetic they didnt realy care about (Most people bought packs for access and dont realy care bout the cosmetic). To high causes people to be like WTF its A2 access. Imo Devs have a couple choices - Open up A2 packs a month after the initial packholder to get in - Sell A2 for like $50 but throw a little extra to current holder like $50 in embers or something (So less chance of backlash from current holders and doesnt cost devs more since virtual items) - Sell it higher at like $100-120 mark (Could be seen as price gouging) - Sell it like the old packs with same kinda cosmetic but there not unique and be bought from cash shop when Game release Thats probably there 4 options i think
Box cost There is no upfront box cost associated with Ashes of Creation.[29] Nobody should feel that they have to back the project to see it come to life. It's coming to life regardless of that. You do it because you want to support us and that's fine; and if you don't want to, that's also fine as well. We want to hear your voice and we want you to be part of the community, so that's a very important aspect. Nothing we offer in the pre-order packages are power driven. They don't give any competitive advantage to an individual who backs the game.[30] - Steven Sharif
Enough to make people do a little research and make sure they know what theyre getting into. This would also make sure people are invested in the game and more likely to test even if there's no game content to do. I wish they could go super cheap with it, but people are very quick to judge and voice their opinion. If they hop on twitter and say "There's no content, this game sucks". People will just blindly take their word for it and comment some really low IQ like "BASED" or "SCAM". 😂
That is my worry about going to low in price. The packages that we bought were already high in comparison to other previous games so I am guessing the key alone will be also.
There is not a chance of my paying for access to an alpha, and I'm a little shocked that so many seem quite so happy to. Charging for alpha is mugging customers before they even get going. It tells me a lot about the company. My view on this might be so firm because I am a retired technical lead. I understand what alpha is. I have also worked in several startups, and I know what their sales guys are doing... Don't get mugged so easily guys. You don't pay for alpha. Ever.
I completely understand this sentiment. I frequently say I miss the old days of alpha and beta testing, when it was a privilege and exciting to get asked to participate. Sadly, I do not think that will return for the majority of games anytime soon.
@@TheoryForge alpha is not the same thing as beta. They are fundamentally different phases of development, with very different goals. In alpha, you don't yet have a product offering. You don't yet have such an offering because **you do not yet know what such an offering might be**. In alpha you are still figuring out what the product will be. This is of particular importance for a start-up because it means that funding to date has come in through small scale private and seed capital. In alpha, it is highly unlikely that you have yet achieved your first major tranche of funding.... and as an aside, they'd not be charging for alpha access if they did have money. You don't ever pay for alpha access because until you leave alpha, you have no idea if this aspirational product will ever be developed as an actual product. In alpha you don't yet know what the product will be, or if it'll go forward. It really might not go forward for a lot of reasons. So, how far away is beta?.. You tell me... What is the storyline like? What is the main questline like? What are the dungeons like? I tell you, after New World (and BDO sales in the West), I don't think they have a snowball's chance of raising funding for another pvp focused open world game that relies on the playerbase creating their own story. Not going to happen... So, what product do you think they'll land on having? We simply don't know yet.
speaking of Alpha testing... I live in Southest Asia... can I test Ashes of Creation's upcoming Alpha-2? I mean I could play GW2 or NW on North America server just fine, but I'm not sure for Alpha-build like AoC. Can anyone tell me anything?
$49 seems like a good sweet spot bearing in mind all of the factors you mention in the video. I would hesitate to spend more than that not knowing if the project is going to be successful. It's enough to have people invested in giving quality feedback and generate revenue for the studio, without being prohibitively high for people like myself who have reservations based on an abundance of caution given some of the sketchy stuff Steven was involved with in the past.
Here after the 120 Dollar announcement for a Not-So-Persistent Alpha 2. Everything said in this video, ranging from 50-75 would've been reasonable, what they're asking for now isn't.
They have just added $15 in game time and $15 in embers so at least the bottom price comes down to $70. That is more in line with what I thought it would be.
No serious company would charge money to test an alpha version. I bet the high price is mainly to get RUclipsrs to buy the game and people who are already very hyped and don't even realize what they are being promised and what is really there. I really wonder if people are incapable of comparing game developments. That's total nonsense, people only paid the money to participate. If you sell skins that don't even exist, you still pay the full amount to participate. Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen’s pre-alpha 1000$
It is definitely not for everyone. But buying alpha, beta or early access is the normal route at this point. Ashes has been selling packs for years at this point. At least we are starting to see a product we can playtest ☺️
I don’t like the idea that they reopened it. It makes me way too nervous on how it’s going to be perceived. No matter what you set the price someone is gonna be upset that it costs so much just to test a game. Others are going to be angry that they spent hundreds to get access to
$50-$75 seems reasonable for an Alpha 2 test key. It does not hurt to generate more funds for development. Hopefully with more quality/committed testers in Alpha 2, launch can be sooner rather than later.
75 is way too much for alpha acces. if they want players. and they clearly do since they are reopening and they said they would not, they cant price it at 75 or hell even 60 unless it comes with significant game time. otherwise its a skip and I suspect a dead game after a year scenario.
without even watching the video ill answer your question....It should cost nothing! you are doing the game developers a service by testing their product and providing feedback and ways to improve their product. Back in the day people actually got paid for this service...now they just sucker the general public into paying them to play their unfinished product.
$0 - I will give them money if they need it, but asking for this for unfinished work does not help any of us, not creators nor consumers. Create some tiny (finished!) thing worth paying for or find another career.
No this is the cost because the game will be free to play after 6 months after release. Paying for alpha is insane especially $200 and up you have to be desperate, no mmo released in past 5 years that’s not free to play.
10€ at most. It should be free but 10-20€ is ok for server costs. for 50€ or more i expect access to all tests after alpha 2 and to include the game without sub at release but i wont buy alpha 2 only access thats a scam. Dude there is a huge difference between EARLY and ALPHA access. if you buy a small ship in SC you are in Alpha but you are in without any more costs. Please research more precisly. Paying for beeing an alpha tester is vastly different to bying and supporting a game in ea but you bought the game and the following patches until completion or patches later on like with No Man´s Sky.
In Ashes you will, presumably, get access to the beta stages and the full game, but not free of a subscription since this is a subscription based game. I have alpha access to Starcitizen and have for some time: ) Thanks for watching!
hot take: they should wait until A2 package buyers have a month or two to test server functionality before opening up more sales. then they could have an accurate idea of how many more players they want before they inevitably cap the A2 key sales. My guess though, is $50.
I like this idea
I personally will never pay for Alpha/Beta access. I'm not going to pay to try and find bugs in an unfinished game. Companies use to have to pay people to do the same testing, now they realize people are dumb enough to pay them.
I think a lot of people feel that way which is why they created packs. Most of those companies still have QA teams.
I guess the difference is in the fact you also get the game. People are acting like Alpha Tests are separated from the game, but in my experience you buy in and then that gets you the game when it releases.
@jamesn3122 I agree with both. It sucks to pay to test, but a lot of early buy ins end up being cheaper in the long run.
The thing with ashes though is that as of to date, it will not have a box cost so that actually should decrease the value of keys and early buy in unless of course it still comes with sub time. Kickstarter got lifetime subs for cheaper than the most recent packs that only gave 6-9 months of sub.
I like the fact that more people are going to test the game. I don't, however, agree with the fact that they'll sell A2 access *_BEFORE_* package buyers get a chance to play. People paid hundreds of dollars for the only way that existed to get access to the start of A2 (vaguely stating that there might be ways to get into the testing phases in the future is not something you could count on), and now they'll give access to A2 simultaneously with people that paid way less. Yes, older backers also bought skins etc, but when will we see those? In 4 years? 5? Letting new buyers in at a later stage (A2.1 for example) is the perfect solution in my opinion.
I also think they should wait until the first group is in to sell keys
@@TheoryForge That's great to hear! I think it's a very fair and reasonable approach. I posted it on the AoC forum as well, and most people heavily disagreed and thought I was a special snowflake. Well, we'll see what Intrepid does, I'm fine either way.
Loved the video, it was a great look at different games and what they charged for Alpha access. However, I take a little different view on the framing you used for price. You said that because Ashes is a "true alpha" the cost should be higher to "attract the kind of players Intrepid is looking for". I would argue that because this is a "true alpha", it doesn't have the content available to charge a high price. Either way, I appreciate your perspective and liked the video.
That is a very valid view. Content does matter when money is involved. I would still say above $20, but taking content into account, maybe $50 sounds better than $75. Thanks for watching!
3:57 holy shit, is that baby Fantom?
😂 Probably 12 years ago?
Most MMO that allowed beta access were priced over 50E (it did offer usually like early access and some things but it was mostly fluff to make the price seem less spicy ). I'd be amazed if the a2 access is less than 100E . I would only see that as possible if the access is limited in some nature (only 2 weeks, 1month, no access to beta2 or beta1). Also do not forget they said that alpha 2 will persist until release and then will transition to a test server if I remember correctly from past streams (haven't followed as closely anymore so I do not know if this changed).
Very good points. It has been brought up whether alpha 2 keys will include beta and release. I guess we will find out soonish.
The will offer Alpha access at whatever it takes to get the testers they need. It will start off below the pre-purchase cost and will drop down in stages, to inspire more testers until they get the number they need. Potentially, all the way down to $0. These test packages will not give access to the beta test. The process will be repeated if they need more testers in Beta 1 and Beta 2. This way they preserve the value of the original test packages, and they justify the reduced value of the new Alpha packages.
Supply and Demand will set the price, not what anyone's idea of what subjectively Alpha access should cost.
The price will matter to a lot of people for sure, not just because of the cost but also the value proposition of just getting access to play early.
The A2 will be Non-NDA so my hope is simply that they start the keys a few weeks before launch and keep it open for a few weeks after launch so everyone has a clear understanding of what they are buying into and maybe help people make the decision of saying yes or no.
Btw i fully expect to pay $60 to be able to play until release but i also didnt care about the cosmetics or game time, ive simply always just wanted the key.
Please Steven don't put an access limit on the new Keys A2 means A2.
$60 seems reasonable to me
I'd say ~$20-30 for 2 full weekends of access (friday through sunday) with a high chance of getting into future testing phases if you gave good feedback during your access.
So like a test of quality. Interesting idea.
Depends the state of game, studio, duration, purpose and many more. For this situation about AoC i think alpha 2 should be same price as a game like 40-80 dollars around. Something tragic/funny that i noticed tho is that the people who say all the time "i can pay more than 15 dollars per month" or "this game should have a higher sub like 30-50 dollars cause i would pay that amount easy" are the same people who now cry in the idea that alpha 2 key will cost less than what they pay before... which is totaly fair cause newcomers will have only A2 key and nothing more so we expect a fair price less than 80 dollars. Ofc they can also pay us to test better the game that works too.
Considering an upgrade from A2 to A1 was $125 I would expect a higher price point. Personally though, idc if it's free even after I've already purchased the previous packs. As long as we get enough data for the game to be good.
I can agree with that about data.
75 seems a reasonable amoumt as to not upset the earlier buyers. That high keeps the riffraff out as well.
+1
its not only an alpha test. Its more like a persistent pre access to the next big thing since 2004, years before the final version will launch.
I think the price for key only will be 39 $
$39 does not seem unreasonable.
They put themself in a difficult spot, to low can cause backlash from existing pack owners who were under the assumption there last chance to buy in at start of A2 was start of this year and sold cosmetic they didnt realy care about (Most people bought packs for access and dont realy care bout the cosmetic). To high causes people to be like WTF its A2 access.
Imo Devs have a couple choices
- Open up A2 packs a month after the initial packholder to get in
- Sell A2 for like $50 but throw a little extra to current holder like $50 in embers or something (So less chance of backlash from current holders and doesnt cost devs more since virtual items)
- Sell it higher at like $100-120 mark (Could be seen as price gouging)
- Sell it like the old packs with same kinda cosmetic but there not unique and be bought from cash shop when Game release
Thats probably there 4 options i think
I agree it is a difficult spot. I like you four options also. Well thought out.
Just remember alpha access includes the final price of the game if the game is buy to play
That is a good point, box costs are important.
Box cost
There is no upfront box cost associated with Ashes of Creation.[29]
Nobody should feel that they have to back the project to see it come to life. It's coming to life regardless of that. You do it because you want to support us and that's fine; and if you don't want to, that's also fine as well. We want to hear your voice and we want you to be part of the community, so that's a very important aspect. Nothing we offer in the pre-order packages are power driven. They don't give any competitive advantage to an individual who backs the game.[30] - Steven Sharif
Enough to make people do a little research and make sure they know what theyre getting into. This would also make sure people are invested in the game and more likely to test even if there's no game content to do.
I wish they could go super cheap with it, but people are very quick to judge and voice their opinion. If they hop on twitter and say "There's no content, this game sucks". People will just blindly take their word for it and comment some really low IQ like "BASED" or "SCAM". 😂
That is my worry about going to low in price. The packages that we bought were already high in comparison to other previous games so I am guessing the key alone will be also.
There is not a chance of my paying for access to an alpha, and I'm a little shocked that so many seem quite so happy to. Charging for alpha is mugging customers before they even get going. It tells me a lot about the company. My view on this might be so firm because I am a retired technical lead. I understand what alpha is. I have also worked in several startups, and I know what their sales guys are doing... Don't get mugged so easily guys. You don't pay for alpha. Ever.
I completely understand this sentiment. I frequently say I miss the old days of alpha and beta testing, when it was a privilege and exciting to get asked to participate. Sadly, I do not think that will return for the majority of games anytime soon.
@@TheoryForge alpha is not the same thing as beta. They are fundamentally different phases of development, with very different goals.
In alpha, you don't yet have a product offering. You don't yet have such an offering because **you do not yet know what such an offering might be**. In alpha you are still figuring out what the product will be.
This is of particular importance for a start-up because it means that funding to date has come in through small scale private and seed capital. In alpha, it is highly unlikely that you have yet achieved your first major tranche of funding.... and as an aside, they'd not be charging for alpha access if they did have money.
You don't ever pay for alpha access because until you leave alpha, you have no idea if this aspirational product will ever be developed as an actual product. In alpha you don't yet know what the product will be, or if it'll go forward. It really might not go forward for a lot of reasons.
So, how far away is beta?.. You tell me... What is the storyline like? What is the main questline like? What are the dungeons like?
I tell you, after New World (and BDO sales in the West), I don't think they have a snowball's chance of raising funding for another pvp focused open world game that relies on the playerbase creating their own story. Not going to happen... So, what product do you think they'll land on having? We simply don't know yet.
speaking of Alpha testing... I live in Southest Asia... can I test Ashes of Creation's upcoming Alpha-2? I mean I could play GW2 or NW on North America server just fine, but I'm not sure for Alpha-build like AoC. Can anyone tell me anything?
I would imagine you can if you have a key to do so
@@TheoryForge planning to do so when the alpha 2 becomes available again
Wouldn't it be worthwhile offering Alpha 2 keys that can expire?
Possible. That is an interesting idea. I don't think they have talked about it.
They should pay you. For being their QA department...
$49 seems like a good sweet spot bearing in mind all of the factors you mention in the video. I would hesitate to spend more than that not knowing if the project is going to be successful. It's enough to have people invested in giving quality feedback and generate revenue for the studio, without being prohibitively high for people like myself who have reservations based on an abundance of caution given some of the sketchy stuff Steven was involved with in the past.
Another one of those touch choices for Intrepid. How do we not price ourselves out of good testers.
I'd offer to buy 3-6 months of gametime once the game releases and include the key for free.
If they sell the key alone I wouldn't go over 50€.
It sounds like they won't package things this time like they have before with game time
@@TheoryForge That's what they have said, yes. But they have time to reconsider. I guess we will find it soon.
Alpha access should never cost more than a full price AAA game ($60)
I truly can't see anything more than $75.
That would be my upper limit guess also
Here after the 120 Dollar announcement for a Not-So-Persistent Alpha 2. Everything said in this video, ranging from 50-75 would've been reasonable, what they're asking for now isn't.
They have just added $15 in game time and $15 in embers so at least the bottom price comes down to $70. That is more in line with what I thought it would be.
@@TheoryForge I think that is a pretty respectable move and brings it more in line with people's expectations.
if a company wants me to test their game they better pay me, not the other way around. lets not get it twisted 🤪
No serious company would charge money to test an alpha version. I bet the high price is mainly to get RUclipsrs to buy the game and people who are already very hyped and don't even realize what they are being promised and what is really there.
I really wonder if people are incapable of comparing game developments.
That's total nonsense, people only paid the money to participate. If you sell skins that don't even exist, you still pay the full amount to participate.
Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen’s pre-alpha 1000$
It is definitely not for everyone. But buying alpha, beta or early access is the normal route at this point. Ashes has been selling packs for years at this point. At least we are starting to see a product we can playtest ☺️
I don’t like the idea that they reopened it. It makes me way too nervous on how it’s going to be perceived. No matter what you set the price someone is gonna be upset that it costs so much just to test a game. Others are going to be angry that they spent hundreds to get access to
I tend to agree. That is where the curiosity of what just alpha access came from, rather than full packages.
$50-$75 seems reasonable for an Alpha 2 test key. It does not hurt to generate more funds for development. Hopefully with more quality/committed testers in Alpha 2, launch can be sooner rather than later.
I hope that is the case!
75 is way too much for alpha acces. if they want players. and they clearly do since they are reopening and they said they would not, they cant price it at 75 or hell even 60 unless it comes with significant game time. otherwise its a skip and I suspect a dead game after a year scenario.
Fair points
If it is from Larian, full price
you tell this to people 10 years ago, they will call you crazy, PAYING for helping them test?
They would. I would. It is unfortunately the way. Maybe one day we will return to the past.
I pay it, not a big deal for me
without even watching the video ill answer your question....It should cost nothing! you are doing the game developers a service by testing their product and providing feedback and ways to improve their product. Back in the day people actually got paid for this service...now they just sucker the general public into paying them to play their unfinished product.
What every RUclips creator wants to hear 😂
$0 - I will give them money if they need it, but asking for this for unfinished work does not help any of us, not creators nor consumers. Create some tiny (finished!) thing worth paying for or find another career.
I can completely understand this sentiment. I do miss the old days of testing.
5 dolla
Sounds right
62 dorra
No this is the cost because the game will be free to play after 6 months after release. Paying for alpha is insane especially $200 and up you have to be desperate, no mmo released in past 5 years that’s not free to play.
10€ at most. It should be free but 10-20€ is ok for server costs. for 50€ or more i expect access to all tests after alpha 2 and to include the game without sub at release but i wont buy alpha 2 only access thats a scam.
Dude there is a huge difference between EARLY and ALPHA access. if you buy a small ship in SC you are in Alpha but you are in without any more costs. Please research more precisly. Paying for beeing an alpha tester is vastly different to bying and supporting a game in ea but you bought the game and the following patches until completion or patches later on like with No Man´s Sky.
In Ashes you will, presumably, get access to the beta stages and the full game, but not free of a subscription since this is a subscription based game. I have alpha access to Starcitizen and have for some time: ) Thanks for watching!
it should be free...but tbh more than 20$ for just to test the game is a scam
I wouldn't mind returning to the old style of testing. Of course then it gets much more restrictive as to who gets to test.