Should BABYLON 5 Be REBOOTED?
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- Опубликовано: 13 июл 2024
- Babylon 5 is one of the most well renowned sci-fi shows of all time, yet it's also quite technically dated and kind of obscure. Now that we find ourselves in the golden age of TV, could a Babylon 5 reboot work and should it even be put into production?
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You raise interesting points but I stand by my original opinion that rather than a reboot I'd much prefer to see the universe expanded. If a new spin off show took off then the original will always be there for anyone wanting to learn the history of B5.
Regarding what you said about Susan at the end we could have a spin off show where Claudia returns to play her older self being instrumental in the telepath war.
Maybe as she's an admiral & it get's uncovered that she's a latent teep? Then she has to reluctantly lead the fight to disband the psi corp
I think that we would need a faithfull reboot of B5 in todays climate of polerized Fanbases as B5, more so than any other scifi show, even Star trek in my opinion, showcases not only the need of cooperation between people but also acceptance of different view points. Many Problems in B5 are not solved by converting people to your point of view but trying to understand theirs and then try to work with that understanding, wether you like their outlook on life or not.
In my opinion the most relevant show today that was made decades ago.
@@missyprime8198 A universe expanded or a reboot of Crusade.
Rowan, you showed an article from 2017. Check out what JMS said in 2018. He said basically no chance.
Should Babylon 5 be rebooted? As it stands very probably not. Reboots aren't often done by people/studios who don't understand/care enough to make a worthy end product. And the actors seem hard to replace in my opinion. I have *two* suggestions rather than a straight out of the box reboot.
1) A -sequel- prequel series, specfically the Dilgar War. Done well it provides something new for the fans as well for newcomers, as well provides enough conflict, enticement and thought provoking topics. If done well it would generate interest in a proper reboot and restore faith from fans that the studios could do it justice.
2) Can't trust the studio to do it? No worries fans could pull together to remaster it themselves as a project. Astartes, SC38 Reimagined, even Prelude to Axanar are but the beginning. AI has come along way. Just look at the channel Two Minute Papers to see what can and has been achieved and is available to fans in this field. (Happy to cover exactly how in a response if need be)
The big problem with a reboot is that you won't find another Peter Jurasik or Andreas Katsulas.
That is EXACTLY what I was thinking!
Jurasik is still alive. Edit: Oh, maybe you meant actors of their caliber.
@@TheJosep70 I know he is still alive, but he's not young anymore :) It's hard to imagine another actor playing Londo
@@DarthAgony Yeah. And both he and Boxleitner were in Tron, one of my favorite movies.
Yeah thats the thing - the cast was/is excellent
Just finished the series for the first time
Babylon 5 has no reboot
Babylon 5 needs no reboot
“Welcome to the party, pal.” :)
Needs a Cgi Remaster.
@@Aximili55 Nothing wrong with the CGI, it was fine for its day. And shows age, so take that into account.
A decent remaster is too expensive for the amount of episodes that would need it. Most studios would throw money at a reboot so they can market it better.
@@0PsychosisMedia0
If they manage to live up to the "promise", AI remasters might be a cheaper alternative that WB might consider one day...
(Oh look, a flying pig 🐖).
What is not needed is a reboot, not just yet. What is needed is an emergency preservation and remastering. Babylon 5 is a priceless painting that has been stuck up in someone's closet. It's still priceless, just need a touch up to rejuvenate and restore.
Yes, with DLSS you could pull it into the 21th century.
What if they could only replace all the high tech and space visuals without people, with almost the same much more vibrant real looking modern ones?? That would already rejuvenate it.
they will never remaster it sadly. the cost to remaster trek vs return on physical sales was seen as too expensive. so we dont have ds9 and voy remastered (yet, they will eventually have to do it). saying that if a show isn't released in HD, no streamer will show it. best would be for warner to sell it to JMS and let him do what he wants with the show.
@@varsityathlete9927 We are at the point with DLSS technologies and the like that someone could Remaster it on their home PC now. It's time to do it is the kicker but I am sure there is a fan out there that could attempt it.
@@fatarsemonkey there already was a project doing this for b5 and for lexx. upscaling doesnt work for the low res cgi textures. all you get is the same pixel textures just sharper resolution they still look horrible.
The troublewith a reboot is trying to replace the original actors. As a massive fan of the show like the rest of us you just fell in love with every character and actor on the show. And its so sad we have lost so many of them
Even Mira Furlan has passed away...
The Babylon 5 universe is massive one... no one says you have to redo the 5 years we've already seen... Hell, actually rebooting Crusade without the massive studio interference would give us both the Babylon 5 fix and chart new ground. Or actually doing the Legend of the Rangers series.
That would actually be much more satisfying than trying to reboot B5. Something new to tell, not overly tied to old beloved characters.
I actually agree that legend of the Rangers could have worked primarily because oh that's right what did they do wrong they had it playing during finals for the football divisions and that will make you lose every time no matter what show you're trying to bring out so if they do reboot anything they need to reboot legend of the Rangers or even Crusade I actually agree with that because it never was completed.
Agree.... B5 is a good story universe.
Rebooting Crusade is a really good idea, but Legend of the Rangers; I don't know. I absolutely Hated that film.
Yeah I agree... Crusade is probably the best way to reboot the B5 Universe. That was an interesting sequel plot and premise. Babylon 5 would be savaged in today's politically polarized environment and I really feel that would be an extreme detriment. If the original creator can reboot Crusade is definitely the best way to go.
Nope. I prefer a sequel, like 200 years from the events of Season 5. The franchise's own TNG.
I'd prefer this a lot more.
I agree. I watch Star Trek as if each series represents a specific zeitgeist in time and space, not for the viewer but for the characters. I view it that the lighting, uniforms, alien make-up and aesthetics appear differently in each series because it reflects the mood and attitudes of the crew.
I would love to see this happen in Babylon 5. I don't want to experience the same story again, I want to experience someone else's story, emotions, culture and experiences. I would welcome the disconnect that a 200 year period would allow.
There are a LOT of open ended plots and storylines that can be expanded upon. They can base it on one of those scenes from Deconstruction of Falling Stars. The far-reaching effects of Sheridan and his crew. I'd like to see the ISA develop, the search for more lost technology that may have been left behind, revisiting Thirdspace, Tensions within the Earth Alliance, maybe a stray Vorlon or Shadow individual that stayed behind.
Can't a reboot also be a sequel ?
@@erin_3569 how would that even work? They're not the same thing.
Digitally remastered yes. Remade with a new cast no.
Yes!!!, I have had it on DVD for years, but the quality is not the greatest. About 720p maximum from a videotape source, and this is an actual release, not a bootleg or anything. Digital reissue please!!!
There is a digitally remastered version available for streaming on Amazon, iTunes and HBO Max now.
I'm currently on my first watch through of Babylon 5. While the visual effects definitely look 'old', they don't look 'bad' at all.
The characters are all played by such great actors I don't think another cast could possibly fill their shoes.
I actually would love more Babylon 5, but I am afraid what a studio of today would do to it....
I would like to a see a continuation in the 2330s.
It would be a an SJW gender neutral mess. Alt-right and SJW fights have destroyed pop culture icons like Star Trek, Star Wars, MCU etc.
If it got the bsg treatment, i would be ok with it.
I understand how you feel, but then I remember how awesome the Battlestar Galactica reboot was. It's entirey possible for it to turn out gloriously. On the other hand, it's never going to happen because WB will never allow it to happen; these discussions are moot.
@@pcuimac the trajedy of which, if it were ever happening and if that is what happened, is that it's _completely_ unnecessary. JMS put a variety of sexual orientations, races, and people of every creed in the original to begin with; he gave women and minorities roles as leaders and presented humanity as having overcome internal bigotry.
B5 was never part of the problem SJWs think they have to fix by ruining everything with statistically unrealistic representations of humanity.
Nothing about reacent Sci-fi series has made me think they could do it any better now than they did then.
Recent Sci fi, yes. Recent television in general, no.
I'd argue that there is no way they could reboot it successfully. There are no writers capable of writing at the same quality and no directors willing to keep to the main story framework.
One thing that could be good is having B5 where Sheridan is in it from the start. Having an EA captain whose ship is assigned to patrol that region of space would give an opportunity to contrast Sinclair and Sheridan, and you could shift when control of the station is transferred to Sheridan and how/why, instead of it being driven 100% by production reasons. Keep Sheridan as a character who comes back and forth to B5, etc. There's honestly a lot you could play with from a storytelling perspective if there was a ground-up reboot of the exact same show.
yup the argument of how the CGI looks is not enough for whoever to reboot and ruin a classic. Honestly if they did I hope its a movie and if its actually done right then I'd feel better
They can sex it up, make it pro 'progressives' make half the cast gay or bisexual characters willy nilly because they're good and natural and EVERYWHERE!
We'll still have our B5 regardless of how they trash it.
I re-watch the series on my DVD set once every 5 years or so. Season 1 was all over the map but by season 2, the actors matured their roles and the long story arc kicked in and it becomes more captivating. The very last episode always brings me to tears. Sheridan (Bruce Boxleitner) was amazing. The arc between G'Kar and Londo covered a lot of ground and developed their characters more than we could ever have anticipated. The deeply rooted racism of Londo's race toward G'Kar's race was revolting and something we can relate to in our world today. G'kar's strength of character and will was heroic. Their story arc reveals lessons that we can learn from to live better.
Agreed Bill. The final moments of Sheridans 20 years are far more gut-wrenching than Spocks final one in ST2-TWOK. I also bingewatch ever 5 or so years - somehow appropriate in terms of three (as Zathras might say) - "The last one: the viewing that was, the current one: the viewing that is and 2026: the viewing that will be". ABSOFRAGGINLUTELY!
I love the babylon 5 older 😍
I love the Commander
I think the B5 effects still look great today with their gorgeous color palette and the epic scale of the shots! I haven't seen anything like it since and if they were remastered they could provably hold their own against all these new blurry lens flares fast paced sci-fi effects!
The show stood on the storytelling, effects etc. But let’s not forget...actors. Would it still be B5 without Andreas Katsulas (G’Kar)? Not for me.
When the show was new, all I heard about was how "great" the effects and story were. Everyone told me I'd love it far more than I did Star Trek. I finally broke down and acquired the full DVD set of it. I didn't get past the third season, or so. The sets were trash. Some of the acting was trash. The CGI was *extremely* trash.
There's a reason Star Wars and Star Trek are as big as they are, and B5 isn't --
Just let this show die.
Exactly!
The graphics was MADE for CTR or old tv's not modern tv monitors .This was already obvious in the 90s If you want the ultimate experince watch it on 28-32 inch old ctr tv.
@@jari2018 Not a good excuse.
@@michrech B5 was the first to use CGI for the space scenes if memory serves me correct. Star Trek was still using models back then. That is why the CGI looked like trash to you years later, it was brand new technology and cutting edge at the time.
Reboot? No.
Remaster? YES.
Seconded!
There will never be studio remaster, this Fan remaster looks promising. Its 1080p
www.reddit.com/r/babylon5/comments/ap47nr/b5_remaster_reencoded_for_the_love_of_babylon_5/
I'd definitely prefer a remaster to a reboot.... but neither are likely to happen.
Hell YES!
I’d like both
The biggest reason against it is that the idea that we're in a "golden age of television where longform intricate storytelling is the norm" is completely false. There are some shows that fit this, but by and large modern writers favor quantity over quality. I've heard the argument made that modern television is far more complex than older shows because there are so many characters and stories, etc... Except that none of those stories are deeper than your typical commercial (with the exception of the tiny number of shows that are actually well written). Yeah, there are 35 different plotlines happening, but none of them gets more than a couple of minutes of real screen time a week, and none of them are much more complex than who is sleeping with who, and they are all propped up on forced springer-style "drama".
Modern television doesn't want something like B5 or Star Trek. Those shows were far too thoughtful... maybe even too cerebral for modern television. Modern writers will use words like "slow", but in reality the problem is that properly rebooting those shows would require more work than your typical television writer is willing to do in order to build characters with actual depth and complexity rather than just walking stereotype#1 who happens to be screwing walking stereotype#2. It would also require writers who actually care about and respect the originals.
Even if you did manage to get writers who actually know the original, the higher ups will ensure that it be nothing more than another cookie cutter "drama" that alienates the people who kept that IP alive in favor of the bigger number of eyeballs who will forget the new series ever existed 30 minutes after the final episode airs.
No, this is quite the opposite of a golden age for television writing....
Babylon 5 was a pioneer of modern TV's long-form storytelling, and doing it first meant _they had to_ do a good job of it.
Everyone else saw it work, but many don't understand _how_ it worked. So the pale imitators of long-form TV play a game of dangling a carrot in front of the protagonists and jerk the audience along for as far as they can get away with. They start a potentially deep story without realizing that you need to develop the _villains'_ plan more extensively than your heroes'.
I'd love to see the Babylon 4 story interwoven with the events leading up to the coming of Valen, the first shadow warm, the destruction of the first three babylon stations....then the telepath war following the destruction of Babylon 5..
Personally I would love to see a B5 with updated grafics and visuals in the form of a Remaster and not a reboot.. I don't think I would be able to look passed the fact that a Reboot wouldn't have the same cast and they did just NAIL it... (Rip G'kar Frankling Micheal and more!)
I came here to say the exact same thing. Remaster the SFX certainly, but there’s nothing wrong the series in terms of story etc. I wouldn’t want to see another show rebooted in today’s climate as it’s probably be a shitshow from start to finish.
A remaster would be nice.
I just re watched the show, and was thinking this could really benefit from a remaster as I watched it.
A remaster of the computer visuals would be excellent, everything set in space. But how do they remaster the obviously wooden sets. I mean you can see the wood grain on the supposedly metal doors, lol:)
@@ukmediawarrior The internal sets i say keep the charm of what there are but maybe brush out some of the glaring mistakes like making wood look like metal and such and maybe fix the faded coloring but nothing major. In my book at lest.
Personally I'd prefer to see a show "inspired by" Babylon 5 than to see a reboot. Same goes for most sci-fi franchises.
Then you'd love The Expanse if you're not already watching.
A good example is Orvil
That MIGHT work.
Or redo it, but do it from the perspective of the Rangers, I.e. reboot legend of the Rangers.
@@galwitprifor001 That would have to be a MASSIVE reboot to get that good
"Should BABYLON 5 Be REBOOTED?"
No. Hollywood would just screw it up.
100% my biggest fear
@@williamshattuck1825
Hollywood today would change John Sheridan into Joan Sheridan A Black Lesbian, Londo Mollari into a Transgender. God only knows what they would do with Alfred Bester!
A reboot would likely not work and here's why.
Let's start with the actors: Babylon 5 had some extremely good actors playing the roles of the main characters. So even if you used all the original scripts it wouldn't be the same because the actors will be different.
Next there's the writing: no reboot would want to use the original scripts, they'd want to write their own stories and I seriously doubt that there would be a J. Michael Straczynski to helm the show and keep the story on track and have ways to have main characters enter and exit as actors came and went. Also, because this seems to be the trend to draw in viewers there would be a lot more swearing and sex and nudity that would detract from the actual story the show is trying to tell.
Finally there's the way the real world is now: Londo Mollari would never be written as a tragic character these days. He'd be a straight up villain. He'd be written as an over the top womanizer, drunk, former slave owner and evil monster so when he makes his deal with the devil people won't feel sorry for him, they'll hate him. And G'Kar would be written so that he was never seen as ever being a villain but he would always be portrayed as a former slave who's always a victim and always being oppressed by Londo and others.
Certain shows you can't reboot, they just won't work. But what they could do is take a page from the Star Trek book and make a whole new series that continues the story of the universe of Babylon 5. Make references back to the old show and old characters to drum up interest in the original series. But a reboot just wouldn't work in my opinion.
Well said!
Although I would like to see a reboot, your point about the risk of completely ruining Londo and G'Kar are well made, and if it did pan out that way would be a travesty. I'd hope that anyone involved in a reboot would understand and avoid this risk, but it wouldn't be surprising to be disappointed in the manner you describe.
@Reb that is definitely one of the biggest issues with Hollywood these days, and not just with female characters, but no character can be complex. They all have to be lifeless caricatures so as not to confuse the audience.
@@thomasashley3211 yeah, because of how treacherous the waters are for making a reboot are, it's why I'd rather see a continuing series, like something similar to Star Trek or Stargate.
That could work but theres still the issue of the story becoming over politicized my example star trek picard
While I'm mostly against against reboots, for the most part on this topic I will say no primarily because modern entertainment today doesn't give me confidence in it's ability to do a proper reboot of a franchise like Babylon 5.
Actually, it is possible, you'll have to start with an 'In the Beginning' style movie (hell, it's MY introduction into B5!) and plan it as a multi-media franchise from there. You can probably use computers to create a B5Wars game (following in the footsteps of Battletech via, um, Battletech no less!), which would probably make things even more interesting.
The only reboot of a TV series that I've loved is that of "Hawaii Five-0" that just ended after 10 seasons. Generally I have little confidence in reboots of either classic TV series or movies, partly because nowadays the writers (and/or studios) would likely sacrifice vision and quality by trying to appease every SJW and PC demand. Babylon 5 is a brilliant series that could never even be equaled in quality, much less improved (except for the special effects and some of the cosmetics). It does, however, have a lot of material within it that a new series or movies could be based on: The Earth-Minbari war (which we never actually saw except for some short clips), the Rangers, the technomages, or tell the struggle against the evil Pres. Clark from the perspective of an entirely different set of characters.
@@rowanaforrest9792 Thank you. I completely agree.
I'd disagree, if only because long-form storytelling is much more of a thing now. And if it was on something like Netflix or Amazon or whatever, it could have better pacing...there wouldn't be as many "filler" episodes.
@@jvaughan7908 Exactly, that's one of my main concerns even if it were done by Netflix, Amazon, Starz, etc., with long-form storytelling.
Message to Hollywood: Let's start focusing on telling new stories, not old ones.
Would've commented something to the effect of this myself. I don't need 100% originality, but for me to get enthused it does have to be new.
The only reason Hollywood keeps telling old stories is because those are the only ones people watch. I want new stories too but people need to start watching and paying for them when they get made.
@@jesseward4115 The reason people aren't watching though is Hollywood no longer sees the customer as relevant. People will not pay to be lectured, they will pay to be entertained. It's all about the narrative and pushing political ideology. Sonic made a mint when the politics got pulled, and Hollywood had a cow about it.
@@johnweatherman5685 True, and top of that the old shows told us about progressive politics in much more subtle way than the sledgehammer approach of shows these days.
Also, I agree that I don't want to see the old stories retold. Rather give me a prequel show about the previous times the Vorlons and Shadows attacked each other and how the other races was used as proxies, or continue the stories told in Crusade, which never got the full seasons it was due. And as the video commentator rightly commented, tell it from various people's perspectives like what we got with the old B5 show. Gimme more to add to the original, don't reboot the original all the time. The original show was for a specific audience at a specific time in history with specific themes. You can't redo that without doing some major retcons, which means the stories fundamentally change. I don't want to see Bab 5 (The Expanse edition), or Bab 5 (The BSG edition), or anything that is derivative of some other show that does it better in any case. :/
It would also help if they got back to telling stories rather than injecting current events into the future
I feel like Crusade would be more relevant for today's audience, what with the pandemic. So I Think a sequel series is a better idea. Season 1 would be the telepath war, where we see Lyta and Lennier destry the Psi Corp but die in the attempt. I would also like to see Lyta restore Tasha for Ivanova right before Lyta dies. During the season we introduce the new heroes who are going to take over from those characters who are left. In season 2 we skip ahead like the Expanse does and move on with the main story. Just my thoughts
Yes well, no. Horrible.
Babylon 5 was the first show I remember looking at the time and praying the episode still had more time. Such a great show.
I would like to see anything in B5 universe with a serius budget and JMS involved.
budgets dont make good sci fi.
@@esecallum it helps in the execution. No point in having the same cheap sets original B5 did. But good writing is of course essential. If JMS were on board it might be worthwhile.
@@jamied1579 I dont watch for the (cgi) sets. i watch for the story and characters.
@@esecallum that's great for you. Still, modern audiences demand a more realistic presentation. As I said, that's all for nothing if the writing is crap, but the effects and production values on a show like this would also have to be high to be successful
DO make a new series set elsewhere in the B5 universe. DON'T reboot the original series.
I love Bablyon 5, I love it to bits. But I think a reboot would be a bad idea. A lot of Babylon 5's joy arose from the seat-of--the-pants energy in the storytelling - an energy that seemed infectious in the production. It may have had a modest budget but nearly everyone in the cast and crew of Babylon 5 seemed committed to making something special. Maybe part of this was their underdog status, maybe it was the excitement of creating this mysterious ongoing novel on television, maybe it was the sheer slabs of enjoyable ham that J. Michael Straczynski's scripts allowed actors to indulge in from time to time. A reboot would be an interesting exercise... but to its creators, that would be all it could be. An exercise in updating a beloved but dated television show. A far better homage to Babylon 5 would be to find a little known science fiction writer of singular vision and great talent lucklessly schlepping around the TV industry trying to drum up interest in a story that is no part of an existing franchise or property, a tale quite unknown but one with incredible potential - and then give them the same break that JMS got when everyone told him that a rival to Star Trek would be impossible.
As much as I love Babylon 5, there's too much rebooting and re-imagining going on. I want new ideas. And hey, I just don't think you could replicate the lightning in a bottle you got with that cast.
(Btw: As dated as the space battle effects are in Babylon 5, there's a good reason why I still love to watch them over nearly every modern space battle... and that's that the pacing, direction and choreography of all those spaceships was simply superb, especially in the Foundation Imaging era. You knew where everything and everyone was at any given time, what the balance of forces were, what the stakes were... compare that to the space battle at the end of Rise of Skywalker and man... that may have had a billion more polygons flying about the screen but I didn't care one jot about any of the absurdity I was witnessing.)
Ugh seriously. Give me one minor B5 skirmish over the entire ending of RoS any day.
They made it in an old jacuzzi factory.
Hollywood it wasn't.
But like you say, the enthusiasm was infectious.
I think that a B5 without a space station (or not, surprise me!) and a completely different premise happening in the B5 Universe is totally doable. The universe they created is very "believable" and interesting. I would be stoked for something new based on B5.
@@MegaGasek And you could do a B5verse very easily. We know that there is at least a 1000 years of history from the last Vorlon/Shadow Wars and I believe there was an episode that showed a clip from a million years or more going forward in time. And you don't even have to touch upon B5 either way, since it is a "UNIVERSE", with storylines we only glimpsed at during B5 episodes. We almost saw nothing of the Earth/Minbari war except glimpses of things like the Battle of the Line, the event that set off the war, and some glimpses of other Minbari events.
Also, I liked to see more of Galen's Techno Mages? They seem like they could be power players, but we saw next to nothing about them. ;)
Rather than just a reboot - I'd love to see how events would have unfolded if the originally planned story lines had been followed.
I'm sure you're probably aware of this already, but the sequel series did manage to get one season, "Crusade". Like B5, it was intended to be a multi-year arch, but sadly the plug was pulled after just the one season (13 episodes). It dealt with the repercussions of B5, starring Gary Cole, and Tracy Scoggins reprising her role as Capt. Elizabeth Lochley from B5.
I'm glad that I'm not the only one interested in the original concept.
I’d be down for a prequel. Better Call Kosh?
B5 itself doesn't need the reboot - Crusade does. B5 can still be the prequel, so new fans of Crusade would go watch the original content, but the Crusade story had a TON of potential, and it really deserves its chance to be seen. If JMS & co goes with a streaming service, then it would have all of the perks of rebooting B5, without pissing off the purists among us.
no, leave it alone, just tidy up the CGI and production/sound and re-issue, a reboot would more than likely be a stinking turd.
they should have left Star Wars Episode 4 alone too.. i thought the original CG was better looking than the remaster... its one thing to clean up scratchy video or sound.. or even to colorize some films... but dont mess with the CG "or at least give us the option when we watch the damn thing"
CGI would cost to much to redo. There isn't any hd quality footage of it period. It was made for a very specific aspect ratio that is outdated today. They will never release an HD version of B5 without some kind of movie or tv show. It would cost to much. You will never get what you want without sacrifice. They will never get the magic of the original show. I'm however willing to sacrifice to gain new fans and to get an HD B5 release.
@@jasondiend4248 The show was filmed in widescreen to future proof the updated releases, with 4x3 compatible framing that was used for the orgininal broadcast. The issue is that the tapes were badly stored, so were difficult to salvage -- that is why the Mind Wars Season 1 episode looks bad on DVD. The intention was also to keep the 3D models and animation so it could be re-rendered with better quality renders, but WB lost or discarded the files.
@@msclrhd The live action footage was done at widescreen but the cgi was done at 4x3. Simply because that was the aspect ratio of the time for tv. As you said they had intention of future proofing with keeping the data which would keep costs down to bring up the aspect ratio of the footage as well as upping the resolution of the cgi. As you can get HD upscaling off of tape. However the aspect ratio of the cgi is to low for that. They can fix the live action flaws easily and cheaply they can't fix the CGI without completely redoing the entire series.
@@jasondiend4248 use interpolation
I'd rather see another series set within the same universe instead of rehashing the same old stories. Do it while Bruce, Mira, Peter , and Billy are still around. They could use one of them to launch the new series.
Mira is currently busy with a web series, if I recall correctly? :/
Why don't they just do another series set after - during!
Because someone would have to have some original thoughts to do that.
@@Korey617 Too true
already done, although offline at present I ran Babylon 5 for 4.5 years focusing on the 20 year gap of Sheridan, yes we had few movies but never felt it closed. JMS himself visited the 2008 rebuild and signed off on it to continue knowing fans are still out there. reboot will happen in second life 3D virtual world once all funds raised are acquired for the land rental as linden labs charge a lot for region space. It be a non- profitable sim as that are the rules. I will sub to this channel to let any fans know if there interested once anything built goes online.
Crusade and Rangers failed.
Babylon 5 worked well because of the design of the show: the set up of two big bads. One too giant to be fought, leading to a desperate and emotional fight. The recapture of Earth was compelling, not because of the scale, but because of the emotional attachment.
How would you set up something with equal stakes that would seem natural and make sense?
messman10 crusade didn’t fail tnt betrayed the fans I think it would have done well if they had been patient with the story
Personally, what I would prefer is if the original series was modernized and the effects upgraded.
The actual live action scenes of the show were filmed in wider aspect ratios. But the special effects were all done in the 4:3 format of the day due to limitations of the technology and budget constraints. With some TLC, the 16:9 live action scenes could be 4k upgraded and the special effects could all be redone. The end result would be a masterpiece. Consider how good the effects could look when you compare to how good modern effects have become even for current TV shows. The Expanse is a great example of that.
Problem with remaking B5 you'll never recapture the cast and chemistry the original had. R Moore understood this with BSG and got away with what he did. I don't think you can do the same with B5. It was lightning in a bottle 25 years ahead of its time.
I completely agree with what you are saying, but a reboot of the B5 would allow the correction of one flaw in the series is that you a wonderfully crafted set up of the plots but the conclusion was rushed because they were threatened with cancellation which means lots of potentially amazing opportunities were skipped.
If proper care is taken like the early seasons of GOT there is nothing to suggest a reboot could be just as good.
Netflix's House of Card is a reboot of the original BBC Series both are great on their own merit yet fundamentally different.
@@ryanlynch2853 my issue is, in this day in age, it's RARE to find writers of that caliber anymore.
@@GeofftheIronwolf agreed!
@@GeofftheIronwolf JMS is still around, and he wrote most of the eposides himself. But he won't reboot the show and tell the same story again, probably.
@@ryanlynch2853 yeh wb could hand the bsbylon 5 property over to Greg berlsntint since he was one if wbs TV deosrtmdmts big guys
Sometimes great things should be left alone. The show had cgi that looked like a windowS 97 screensaver and it still hold up almost 30 years later. Leave her alone.
Re: Ivanova as protagonist. No. One of the things that makes Babylon 5 so great is that it _doesn't_ really have a protagonist. Rather, it has _protagonists_ who share the load. Making Ivanova _the_ protagonist would make the story feel samey, as though it were just more genre fiction hackery.
No, thank you.
Agree. One of the worst things about Star Trek Discovery is the focus on only one character.
Exactly, despite how much i love susan "boom, boom BOOM" ivanova, B5 has too many threads for a single protaganist,
crwydryny She was one of my favourites too. What a great character and great actor.
@@apersonlikeanyother6895 Amen. Came here to say that.
I would hate to see a B5 reboot. The original B5 was so unique, the casting was perfect, an intriguing, linear story line and pretty good special effects. Speaking of special effects, I think that they've held up pretty well over the years.
This'll go down a storm in the Facebook group. The discussion comes up more than once a week!
I’m a part of that Facebook group and it’s soooo true.
If you're talking about the B5 FB group with the "no politics" rule then I've already posted a link lol
@@missyprime8198 Wow, one of the most politically orientated Sci-Fi shows ever has a FB group with a "no politics" rule, lmao
@@jatkinson85 We can talk about the politics in the show all we want. If we start linking the show to current politics then the admins stop the discussion. |
To be fair I don't blame them as I've seen a few B5 groups turn into complete dumpster fires in the last few years, it's nice to have one B5 group that stays civil.
@@missyprime8198 Yeah, that one.
Oh God can you imagine a grim and dark reboot with mumble acting like STD...
Shudder
That's what i was thinking I don't see any actor's being able to match the original cast members
Complex character like G'kar and Londo boiled down to cookie cutter boring templates incapable of actual thought and change.
Everything infested with current day politics with no reverence for the past of the show or the cannon.
@@fcold9402 Andy K was priceless as G'Kar his acting gave me chills especially with his speeches
@@michaelcarney6280 This is true.
He certainly could not be replaced by any existing "famous" hollywood actor but I think someone could be found, though in his case they would still pale in comparison. But i think there is a better chance finding someone to say those speeches than to write those speeches.
*did not need that sort of nightmare tonic just before going to sleep...the meds are good...but not THAT good*
There is a Facebook page, Babylon Scrolls (if i remember correctly), that goes into a lot of the background stuff of B5. There is also a RUclips channel were some of the CGI scenes have been redone in 1080p.
It has been stated on the Facebook page, and else where, that B5 (same goes for DS9 & Voyager) could never get the full 1080p 60fps treatment as it was recorded on video where as ST:TNG was recorded on film.
I would love to special effects update. But those performances with the magic of those actors.... perfection.
Personally Babylon 5 is the reason that I love Sci-Fi. Growing up in the 1980's/1990's (I was born in 1979 and am now 41 years old) I was never a big Sci-Fi fan, don't get me wrong I liked it Star Wars, Star Trek TOS, Star Trek TNG, Battlestar Galactica (Original), Time Trax (think Timecop before Timecop was a thing), Buck Rogers in the 25th Century and watched them when they were on T.V. I did not watch them religiously as if I missed an episode one week I was not bothered.
Babylon 5 changed that. I live in Wales and when I was a kid in the 1990's Babylon 5 was shown on a Sunday afternoon on S4C, but in England it was shown on Channel 4. Terrestrial television back then was primitive, not like today where you can access all the U.K. regional channels from Free View or Sky, back then you only had access to your own region channel unless you were close to the border and could pick up a very weak signal it was like trying to watch something in a snowstorm on a good day and a blizzard on a bad day. However Channel 4 was broadcasting Babylon 5 one week ahead of S4C and I was lucky to catch the Babylon 5 Pilot being shown when the show was originally broadcast in the U.K. I would watch the episode on Channel 4 in poor to bad quality one week and then the following week when that episode was shown on S4C I would record it for repeat viewing in better quality until I was able to buy the VHS Tapes when I started my first job at 16 and could afford them and I purchased them again on DVD when they were released and If they ever get a Star Trek TOS, TNG Remaster on Blu-Ray they would be a day-one purchase for me.
EDIT: If they ever make more Babylon Project I would like to see a remake of Crusade because that story needs to be completed, I don't want them to reboot B5 but Crusade can be remade with different actors as they only made 13 episodes of Crusade in 1998 and they are far to old to return to their roles after 22 years and the episodes that were made were filmed out of sequence and have a lot of continuity issues as 22 were planned for the first season, but the show was cancelled before it was even broadcast and filming had completed, so they cut and pasted in post production to make a watchable show because they could not film what was missing to complete the season arc.
If they make a prequel I would like it to take place during the Dilgar War as this was 35 years before the events of B5 and that way most of the characters from B5 had not yet been born or they were children during this time and therefore not impact B5 as apart from the Membari which at this time Earth had not yet had contact with, all the other races of the League of Non-Aligned Worlds can be used. Then a show set 60 to 100 years after the events in Babylon 5.
Faith Manages.
I’d like to see a reboot of Blake’s 7 first. The story was really good, it’d be great to see it made with fantastic production values and good acting.
The Liberator also had a bridge set to make the crew of the Enterprise D jealous. And a better ship's computer, with all due respect to MBR.
^^^^^^ This
I've been calling for this for years, LOL:) Blakes 7 is a show that COULD be retold plot for plot for a few reasons. One its so old no one these days hardly knows what it is except for the small but active fan base. Second with todays effects seeing the Liberator would make me .... well, can't say in a family channel, LOL :D That ship was incredible and is still, to my mind, the BEST f**king space ship ever designed for TV or film. The bridge alone was sheer perfection. I mean who these days puts so much thought into a set that the weapons rack will only allow a person to hold one gun at a time, try and pick up another and it will burn your hand :)
SyFy almost rebooted it a few years ago but nothing came of it.
@@TheJovian16 Of course not, why reboot something classic and GOOD when SyFy can just rebrand and copy and paste such shows as Killjoys and Dark Matter.
Remaster it and put it on blueray. Thats all B5 needs.
First. RIP Mira Furlan . 2ndly Dear god no. I can only imagine the utter cock up they'd make of it and it would lose the heart that made it great. a Tie-in or spin off would be good I think, but this show needs to be left alone. They could never recreate the cast chemistry that this had.
i am literally rewatching B5 for the 6 millionth time, still NO damnit.
a remaster may be better, update the CGI and scenes as best they can, that being said, the old B5 still has its charms, cant help but rewatch it
No, and I'll tell you why. Sci-fi shows are a product of their times, and their themes reflect this. If you were to reboot the series now, it wouldn't contain the same themes that made the show so great. It would lose any and all of it's identity, with the exception of the visuals and names. Look at the difference between OG BSG and new BSG, they're completely different. Or look at the difference between Star Trek TNG and Discovery. You'll end up with a completely different theme. Why does this matter so much? B5 had some of the most complex and unique themes in the sci-fi genres. My favorite episode is when Sinclair introduces the Council to all the religious leaders of earth. It's a beautiful scene showing how even though people have different beliefs, they coexist. You don't see that kind of tolerance in most sci-fi. Now all sci-fi universes prescribe to a secular future, where almost everyone agrees on their beliefs. B5 was unique, it understood the complexities of humanity, and didn't just gloss over them in favor of one man's pipe dream. Idk, maybe it's just me, but I'm just sick of all these cynical, post-modern, snooze-fest shows on right now. What happened to optimism?
Best part about that aspect of the show, JMS is a devout athiest, but he understood that different people will always have different world views, thus the diverse beliefs seen in the show and how humanity's "hat" is building comunities because where the other races forced one singular belief above all others humanity held onto it's diversity and that's what makes us what we are and what allows humans of B5 to build a comunity welcoming all unlike any of the other races who stuck to their own kind
You just made the case for it to be rebooted because thoose themes need to once zgain have a voice, we need G'Kar and his wisdom among others messages from this series
When the show was first broadcast, the major story arc often resonated with news of the civil war in Yugoslavia. And in the UK, either intentionally or by a fluke of scheduling, the famous WW2 documentary series The World At War was broadcast back-to-back with Series 3 or maybe 4 - a perfect companion-piece, really highlighting much inspiration for B5 writing; and making the resonance with Yugoslavia all the more poignant, with a feeling that we never learn and that history repeats itself - 1944, 1994, 2260. The World At War was back on UK TV recently, and being furloughed at the moment I decided it was time to revisit B5. And while there isn't a major shooting war going on in 2020, the rise of increasingly polarized, intolerant and isolationist politics and the casting aside of international treaties we living through today very much resonates with Series 1 & 2 of B5, and, rewatching TWAW, Germany in 1930s. All of which is a long-winded way of saying that in my opinion, as is the case with Yeats poem The Second Coming, quoted by Londo in S2, the themes of B5 are as relevant today as when it was written, and will probably remain so forever, and I'd love to see a reboot with modern graphics, better sets and leaner writing that cuts out filler and less successful aspects while expanding on interesting areas not explored, and is less compromised by the threat of cancellation after one season now that multi-season stories are the norm and studios understand this kind of beast better.
Well, trying to keep this short... A big problem with rebooting B5 is that it did something very few shows since have dared to do, which is have a planned ending and stick to it. Sure, the troubles caused by the show's threatened season 4 cancellation have evident effects on how the last half of S4 and later S5 played out, but in general sense they pulled it off. Modern serialized story telling is still done one season at a time with no real mutli-season story arc in mind. While you're correct that modern audiences would be more receptive to the B5 concept, at the end of the day, there aren't any production groups out there who would be willing to take the time to develop a five season story arc and subsequently gamble that their show will become popular enough, for long enough, in order to allow it all to play out. The only show I can think of in the past 20 years that had five year arc and actually played it out was Merlin, and even then, the existing lore did their work for them. B5 is still rather singular in regards to length of its arcs and its willingness to deliberately bookend a show. To address some other ideas in your video, retelling the show could easily be done without retelling the same story. Sinclair was never supposed to be replaced. Talia was never supposed to die and it was clear they were setting her up for something big to happen in a later season. She and Ivonova were supposed to have a more developed romance which would be receptive to modern audiences than it would have been in 199x. Ivonova was supposed to have a bigger role in S5, but her arc had to be shunted over to Lyta because Claudia refused to renew her contract. Delenn was originally supposed to be a male character who turned into a female while in the chrysalis, but it couldn't be done due to technical limitations. They never resolved the Bureau 13 subplot. There are other threads from JMS' original plot outline that never made it into the show or got modified along the way. There is a lot that could be done to retell the story but still make it fresh and different. Aside from the above issue of finding somebody willing to take the financial risk, the other problem would be convincing JMS to do all the writing.
Rebooted, No. Remastered and a properly edited DVD release (ie giving people the tops of their heads back), yes.
If anything needs rebooting, try Crusade. That has the scope to be redone entirely as it was cut so short.
I'd have to admit that my first response was "No!".
… but in hindsight, it is still "No". Although expanding the story/universe with a more dominant role for Ivanova does sound quite interesting.
One of the biggest elements to suffer in a 'reboot' would be the casting. I doubt that the interaction between Londo and G'kar could be replicated as well. And of course, the impact of the Sinclair arc could not be replicated, that is something that can only be achieved in the first airing.
Expand yes, Reboot no.
Mentioning the Sinclair arc is WHY I don't reject a B5 reboot ouright-we don't know what JMS' original plans are for Sinclair. I PRESUME it was for more than one season but Michael O'Hare's issues forced his hand
For people who have never seen the show and probably never will: Yes B5 should be rebooted. But for all those who have already watched it, i think its almost undoable without dissatisfying the fandom. I think it will be absolutely impossible to find actors that will do justice to their predeccessors in playing all these iconic roles. Im talking Andreas Katsulas as G'Kar, Peter Jurasic as Londo, Bruce Boxleitner as Sheridan and the many other brilliant actors, that made the show so enjoyable to watch. I would always compare the new actors to the old and the new characters to the old, and the standard is extremely high. Every non faithful adaptation, that doesn't do the series true justice would hurt the original series more than support it. I would like to see the series with modern, high quality cgi and settings, but i am really afraid of a low quality, unfaithful reboot. So as a fan of the series, ill pass. And just to make a point here: I was a big fan of GoT when it aired, but knowing now how the series ended, i will never ever touch it again. One truly bad season (the last) and a few not so great ones absolutely destroyed any interest in the good first seasons for me.
I can't help agreeing with you, but let's not forget JMS's superb dialogue gave these actors a very good start. I think the roles, and probably races, would have to change significantly to make it interesting for fans of the old series. It could be an interesting guessing game working out who will be the new G'Kar.
Watch reruns
@@ninneadeanna runs into the 'badly maintained masters' bit. B5 was pretty much SHAT on as a TV show in the years after it 'ended'. You'll have to pour a lot of money into rebuilding those masters to get any effectiveness out of them.
I know that I would be metaphorically lynched in this fandom for saying it, but a Remake/Reboot is going to be a requirement now due to how B5 was treated.
I agree with this position. When I think about Babylon 5 a huge part of what made it work was the quality of the actors and the fact that J. Michael did a wonderful job holding the quality of the writing because he had a firm framework for the story arc and wasn't going to allow it to be diverted from the ending he foresaw before he wrote the first episode. With how today's directors demand the ability to completely rewrite stories and ignore canon as happened with the Star Bores Reboot, I would be instinctively hostile to any attempt to reboot B5.
@@markvargus6519 In my opinion, trying to reboot B5 using the same CHARACTERS would be a BIG mistake!
As someone pointed out, new ACTORS as old CHARACTERS would, inevitably, invoke comparisons between the two, to the probable detriment of BOTH shows
No. You can't catch lightning in a jar. Any attempt at recreating it will be a bastard abomination of the original.
I like the time period after Delenn says "Good bye" to the reporters and the two monks are talking about the mythical past.
Not a reboot, but a remaster of the original series with updated CIG and blending of blue screens fx, that would be better and start a new series set in the same universe, maybe finish the Crusade series or continue the legend of the rangers, do something with Techno mages
A remaster is too expensive. Most studios would throw money at a reboot so they can market it better. Because of the amount of cgi and ratio transferring the price would be outrageous. Look at the OST remaster numbers..they were immense, but Star Trek had built in recognized marketing. It was easy to gain that money back. No such luck for B5. Maybe if a reboot would get popular....
That's a terrible idea imho
You got it !
Yes finish the crusade .
Nah, I wouldn't finish Crusade, but re-do the few episodes that were made.
For one thing that'd be easier than getting all the original actors back and looking like they did and for anther there are plenty of grubby studio fingerprints all over those episodes.
Better to start from scratch and make it like it was supposed to be from the start.
I’d rather see a continuation set after.
Wasn't that what the last season was? and the spin off show Crusade granted they failed.
@@spencers4121 Crusade didn't fail, it's the network that didn't give it a chance, canceling it before the season 1 was put on the air.
Crusade was murdered by the studio, shown out of order and cancelled before the season was even finished.
I’ve posted my thoughts above but yes, and set it 500 years after the original.
not sure if there are any good writers that could pull it off a faithful continuation.
NO! You don't mess with perfection.
Given that computer technology has advanced significantly since the show was originally made I think it would be more cost-effective to re-do the CGI sequences (particularly those set in space) and enhance the live action parts. This keeps the show and the story that the original fans know and love while giving new fans the image quality they expect today.
I fear that a reboot which by necessity would have to pander to modern tastes and sensibilities may alienate fans of the original series with absolutely no guarantee of attracting new viewers in sufficient numbers.
One of the reason's I would say a big NO is because that god damn annoying word Reboot needs to be banned instead of being slapped onto any bloody thing. Also It was good as it was why the hell would it need to be remade?.
First pro in my head would be the fact that Thalia Winters would be saved. Remember Kosh and transparent head guy scene? That had purpose.
Reboot - what they say to sell a ripoff.
@@maciek_k.cichon Originally Talia was supposed to be what Lyta became later. But then the actress portraying Talia and the producers got to an impasse regarding her wages and so she quit. They wrote her out of the series and brought Lyta back to salvage the situation and transfered the stuff that was supposed to be done by Talia over to Lyta.
Something I am not at all disappointed in, to be honest. I like Lyta more than Talia and with her more direct connection with the Vorlons, the story lines comes across better than if the special powers came from Ironheart's gift.
Of course one could argue that Ironheart only activated a contingency that the Vorlons left in Talia to begin with... but I think the Lyta-route still worked out as a blessing in disguise.
@@Norbert_Sattler no doubt there, but then i prefere red heads myself anyways... and lets face it, an angry sexy redhead with super psy powers... if that doesnt sell the story than nothing will
@@mikewhitaker2880 Not to mention that Lyta's actress is rather a badass herself, originally starting her career as a stunt-woman and becoming a "regular" actress along the way. ^^
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOPE
Okay but seriously in today's environment it'd be butchered so see above.
What we really need is someone to do "Crusade Continues"
And now it's happening...
What I would like to see, if a reboot ever takes place, is an attempt to fill the original vision. Casting changes (from the pilot movie to series 1, series 1 to series 2, etc.) resulted in plot threads moving around and dropped in some cases, the rush of season 4 and the resulting impact on season 5… it all resulted in some changes from the original plan and vision. Another run in today’s television landscape could potentially give us the original vision of the show. Just my thought.
Rebooted?
NO! LEAVE IT ALONE! IT IS CLASSIC! CLASSICS SHOULD NEVER EVER BE REBOOTED OR REMADE!
I agree. Rebooting won't affect how original fans enjoy the original show. Let's reboot and see how it goes.
A Babylon 5 reboot? Thats asking B5 to join: STD, Disney Star Wars, The Terminator, The Predator, Aliens, and more, in Franchise Hell.
Nope... those are all cinematic black holes that were ruined by cancel culture and SJW nonsense. Television is different as it becomes immediately obvious you may be going the wrong way and there is time to correct course...(star trek discovery/picard not withstanding) There are plenty of rebooted series that did well. Battlestar Galactica (although i hated the characters the visuals were excellent and they had an overall plan and stuck to it) The new Lost in Space is also well done.
@@xaxuelx7987 You have a point but remember BSG reboot was in 2003. A B5 reboot would come in the middle of the social war and cancel culture. If they reboot it should be with a director of the same caliber like the one that made The Mandalorian. If they go the route of STD or Picard (visually fantastic, but horribly writen story lines) it's game over for B5 as they never had the social standing of Star Trek. Im hoping for the best.
NO!! (Yes, I watched 'till the end, the answer remains the same)
It could definitely use a remaster, better CGI and so, but other than that, it's a wonderful piece of art that should be promoted instead of altered.
The characters are a combination of their writing and the actors that perfectly brought the roles to life - as such, they're tightly coupled, and having other people play them would feel wrong at the very least, a sacrilege at worst. Besides, we saw what came to be when Disney started messing with Star Wars. No, B5 is best left alone, loved the way it is by the selected few.
I systematically watched every episode of B5 on VHS after work for over a year while working a long, long stint of night shift underground. It literally helped me stay sane lol. It is an absolute epic and the episode “Severed Dreams” is possibly the greatest single episode of any TV show (& one of the greatest space battles) that has ever been filmed. One of my all time favourite shows. Please god don’t reboot it. Go the TNG way or something instead...
Your prayers were answered. Babylon 5 Remastered has arrived.
I loved Babylon 5. It was my favorite sci-fi program. I like the idea of it being remastered but not rebooted. I can't imagine anyone playing the main characters except the original cast. (And most of them have, unfortunately, passed away. And even if they weren't they would be too old to play the parts.)
Rebooting all kinds of shows is like reheating take out food for 15 times in a row. Game of Thrones in space would be called Space of Thrones or Throne Space.
The problem with a Reboot is how you change things up, BSG was originally a goofy scifi show with a light tone, the reboot decided to be darker, more political and take the central premise seriously. Babylon 5 without our central characters, let alone the races would be a different show entirely. The thing that made B5 so great was the slow burn and the focus on the seperate species, how they interacted with each other, and how they changed over the different seasons.
G'Kar's transformation from the freedom fighter turned arrogant ambassador into the exiled relgious prophet and the Glory and Tragedy of Londo Mollari's life are events that I don't think have any equivelents in modern tv writing and those two aren't even the protagonists of the show. I know this is rambling, but currently US network TV would not make this show, it's a cable show of the FX or HBO style and I'm very dubious that they'd give it the breathing room it required.
I loved those arcs.
Rough Collies Rock I agree entirely , and on the bsg front as well, the original was very much of its time and silly to boot.
BSG is teen angst with shakyporno cam work...its dreadful to watch.
Psychosis Media we’ll have to agree to disagree there. I don’t share your opinion on that
@@Mrtickleberries In their defense, audiences generally give studios good reason to treat them as if they are that thick.
It should only be rebooted if JMS writes it and is the showrunner.
Agreed. With a good team to help.
People change. JMS surely has changed in over 20 years. If you think that you will get classic Babylon 5 I am worried you may be disappointed. You may get something very different.
@@pbuk9654 Yet even if it's different, I trust that JMS would make it different in a _good_ way. Also, this time around he wouldn't need to almost kill himself getting his vision to the screen.
@@pbuk9654 Regardless, he would still be the best person by far to manage this.
@@pbuk9654 Remember, JMS wrote "Thor" - He hasn't lost his touch.
I just started rewatching B5 last week. I'm on ep 6 "Mind Wars".
No, not only do not reboot B5, they need to stop rebooting everything. And my main reason for wanting this is todays writers have no creativity. They keep proving t tim and time again with every reboot and its subsequint failures.
Now, I am not saying reboots can not be done. I am saying todays writers can not do it right. And that is because true creativity has been stifled and discouraged. A shame.
Simple idea, instead of a reboot, a prequel about the earth/minbari war and the building of Babylon 1-4
It's already been made: In The Beginning.
Or, and hear me out on this, give us a Babylon 4 series.
B4 "The Vanishing"
Well, it be pretty short, unless you follow it back in time, then your cast are minbari and vorlon
Toffee Crisp The series could even start before B4 entered the picture, but B4 was just the thing that began turning the war around. We don't really know how long it took for the war to end after B4's arrival.
@@vomErsten sure but you get none of the interplay between factions, none of the building of alliances. Instead, you get a scifi war series, set a thousand years before people reach the stars.
@@toffeecrisp2146 No, instead we get to see the internal politicking that plagued the Minbari prior to Valen, how the Shadows/Vorlons and the other First Ones had their last falling out, probably the occasional story that takes us near medieval Earth. I don't particularly care that humans are not the focus of the story, and I don't necessarily want the story to follow the same arc as Babylon 5.
It was and still is a great series.... NO NO HELL NO!!!!
sure reboot it. would love to see an updated version. BUT NOT NOW. the creatives currently in charge dont have a good track record. star trek discovery is a total disaster. doctor who went totally sideways and there are countless other shows brought to screen in the last 3 years that are total trash. lets wait 10 years and then think about it when the current creatives are hopefully gone and forgotten.
Off the top of my head:
Shadow/Vorlon war was meant to run for most of S4
S5 telepath arc was meant to feature Ivanova not Lyta
And the focus of S5 was meant to be the Earth civil war
Enough to merit a reboot, perhaps not, how about reintegrating the movies in to the series, expanding on Valen/B4 and The Great War, running to season 6, 7, 8+ for the fall of Centauri Prime, the telepath war (though not sure when this is meant to take place in the chronology) and the spin-offs. There's certainly no shortage of source material and the spin-offs in particular would benefit greatly.
NO! I just watch the show every two years again from DVD.
A reboot of the Crusade series I would like to see, but we need the original Galen.
You are lucky to have DVDs that work. Half the discs in my box set won't play in 3 different players! Good thing torrents exist to replace defective junk that should never have been sold.
One of the major issues that I would have with a B5 reboot would be regarding the actors. Criticise the scenery, the effects, even some of the scripting as much as you like, but JMS managed to assemble a fantastic cast, one which would be extremely difficult to match. Could you really imagine anyone other than Andreas Katsulas playing G'Kar, or Peter Jurasik playing Londo? The risk is that you throw a load of money at the project, get fantastic visuals, great scripts, but wind up in the situation where comparisons between the original and the reboot are dominated by how the characters are played.
There are also limitations with what you can do with the story. Yes, you can tell the individual stories differently and add some new ones, but at the end of the day, there's not much you can do to the main story arcs without completely changing the direction of the show. If you've seen the original series, you'll already know which way the overall plot is going. One way you could do this calls back to "War Without End" and the notion that Sinclair is the "closed circle" and goes back because he always has, but at some point this would have had to have happened for the first time with the chain of events leading up to it potentially being completely different. The "first loop" story could potentially be very different to the "nth loop" story we already have offering a way out of having to retell the same overall story in a different way.
Personally, I'd like to see the original remastered, but that seems to be unlikely to happen. The best opportunity for a reboot would be Crusade as that never got finished, but again, not likely.
The reboot needs to plan better for any sequel series.
It's fine planning out a 5 year arc that covers 20 years of in universe time (plus backstory of 10 years / the previous Shadow Wars) - but once the Shadow War & it's aftermath was done it struggled to come up with anything else as compelling to support Crusade / Legend of the Rangers etc.
Instead plan for spin off material from the outset - keep the Shadow War going for longer, make the war with Earth / Interstellar Alliance civil war / the Telepath War the focus of the second series, have an animated series following Valen in the previous Shadow War, make the Centauri & Telepath books into follow up films?
There's plenty of options but there needs to be a way to keep any fan's around.
Look at Star Trek & Dr Who - they succeed with follow up series because of how little the original series relied on an ongoing arc with a satisfying end.
Babylon 5 reboot should be aiming to launch a similar Sci-fi cinematic universe - but for that you need 3-4 spin off idea's ready to go from day one.
They should aim to be more like Star Wars (showing the Clone Wars, and using similar projects to fill in the gaps between the main films - what similar "blanks" can you build into the Babylon 5 series that are strong enough concepts to support a series in its own right? Rather than the original series that seemed to have run out of idea's by the end & had trouble spinning up new follow up projects because the story had already been concluded).
It may be less satisfying but a less definitive "end point" being reached in the last episode would do winders for Babylon 5 Reboot to truly endure & surpass the original.
I agree with everything you said. The main issue for me is the Shadow War will need to culminate at the end of the series, not somewhere in the middle with a questionable conclusion. I never liked the way the war ended. It was silly in retrospect, evaporating the suspension of disbelief for me. I couldn't accepted it. Part of the problem was the looming possibility of the series being cancelled and the story was rushed as a consequence. Thus, I don't put the full blame on JMS. Nevertheless, I quickly lost interest afterwards, although I did see it to the end. Season 5 was lackluster with a few decent episodes. Things will require a major rework for this reboot to succeed in today's world. LOTS of competition out there now unlike back in the '90s.
way too complicated for a movie. Also, it is about slowly unfolding mysteries and conspiracies that only a large number of episodes can handle
Rowan, your core question has caused me much internal wrangling and discomfort. For me, the original Babylon 5 is still quite watchable even with the awesomeness that is The Expanse.
However, I can see where you are coming, and it kills me to hear that JMS does not have the TV rights. If he had any, I'm sure he would have tried to make some updates to effects and other maintenance like they do in the Star Trek Universe. Instead of rotting with whoever owns the right now. In what you term as "The Golden Age of TV Sci-Fi", Babylon 5 will always be the pinnacle of that time, in my opinion. Even now, Babylon 5 has certain intangibles that I use to judge modern day sci-fi TV.
Reboots work the best when there is a significant underdevelopment in the original story or when some aspect to the story's premise can be turned on it's head. The original BSG lasted only one season. So the BSG reboot had plenty of story freedom while paying homage to the original, and the Ceylons as humans was a brilliant twist. The main problem is that JMS was able to tell most of his story.
A Babylon 5 reboot might be workable if it refocuses on telepaths, which you suggested. Exploring telepath experiences, rights, and discriminations could be a great metaphor given some of the current news items. Jodie Comer as Ivanova does provide interesting thoughts. You also mentioned using Game of Thrones and The Expanse was models to follow. Just remember, those series have a literary origin/backbone to work from and leverage, which fit their story arcs into 10-episode seasons. Babylon 5 was an original concept/story, and JMS had 22-24 episodes per season to work with in order to express the core four-year story.
I view a rebooted Babylon 5 as an incredible challenge. It would be a feat on par to what JMS did originally. It needs to be done right or not at all; any half measure would hurt the original.
I think the key casting challenge would be finding a new Londo - it's hard to see how the new show could ever feel like the original without Peter Jurasik's performance in the role.
This isn't just fan-worship of the Londo character either; Londo was a central _agent provocateur_ throughout the whole series, not just as a reluctant ally of the Shadows but because of the personality Jurasik brought to the character. I honestly feel that the reason *_Babylon 5_* had a more down-to-earth human feel to the characters was down to everyone's interactions with Londo - the Earthforce staff might have turned out very stiff and militaristic like you'd find in *_Star Trek_* without some of the early character interactions with good ol' Londo, and I think a lot of the ambassadors (especially Delenn and J'Kar) would have been more two-dimensional and job-oriented if they hadn't been exposed early on to Mollari's particular brand of eccentricity.
In short, I think it was Peter Jurasik's beautifully over-the-top performance in the early episodes which gave the show its more realistic character and more relatable feel. As much as I'd like to say it was all in the writing, I honestly believe that it was Jurasik's bombastic approach which helped everyone else relax and play their characters in a less stilted and more comfortable way, which came across on screen. That initial effect then spread to the guest stars and recurring cast, as each new actor came onboard and went with the flow until you ended up with character relationships which felt so much more natural than you would find on any other sci-fi franchise of the time.
*_Star Trek: The Next Generation_* and the like always felt like a science-fiction show with the characterisation overlaid afterwards, while *_Babylon 5_* felt like a story about people _first,_ with a lot of epic sci-fi stuff bolted on which just made things even more interesting. If George Lucas taught us anything (especially with the prequels), it's that writing huge galaxy-spanning epics with space battles and aliens and robots and laserguns is all very well, but if you don't care about the protagonists then it's all just a big firework display. Joe Straczynski was and still is a great writer, and does a fantastic job of creating believable character dialogue, but unless your actors are able to deliver the words with the appropriately natural performance they can still sound contrived and stilted.
I honestly believe that Peter Jurasik was the cast member who started that ball rolling on *_Babylon 5,_* with his performance nudging everyone else to up their game and not treat the show as just another paycheque. I mean, look at other cast members' performances elsewhere - have you seen Bruce Boxleitner in either of the *_Tron_* movies, or Claudia Christian in the Ja Rule/Steven Seagal vehicle *_Half Past Dead...?_* I remember seeing Andreas Katsulas turning up as a Cardassian in *_ST:TNG_* and he was like a wooden plank in comparison to J'Kar. I don't think it's a coincidence that *_Babylon 5_* was the best performance many of these actors gave in their careers, and I think it was because Peter Jurasik's manic take on Londo gave everyone else the licence to be a little less by-the-book in their own portrayals and have a little fun with their reactions in certain situations.
Every character interacted with Londo, and every one of them reacted to him with a raised eyebrow, a baffled look or a blank stare to what he said... all of which were on-the-spot acting choices rather than scripted reactions. I think it was those moments early in the series which brought the actors out of their shells and allowed them to inhabit their characters in a way that felt more natural and relatable to the viewer than other similar sci-fi shows or movies of the time. I personally think that element which Peter Jurasik brought to the show would be lightning in a bottle, and I think that - unless you could find someone to play the lynchpin role of Londo Mollari for everyone else to play off - you would just end up with a generic space-opera with less-relatable characters, and the unique feel of *_Babylon 5_* which drew so many of its devoted fans in would be lost. I mean, it'd be a great story and all, but I think it would lose the one quality that made the show stand out from its peers and it would just be disappointing by comparison to the original - and I think a lackluster reboot would be worse than never having more *_Babylon 5_* content, because at least this way we can look back on it as the flawed-but-unique epic that it was.
Peter Jurasik was glorious in his role, and it would not be B5 without him but I feel I would feel the absence of Andreas Katsulas far more. G'kar, particularly in later seasons was such a transformed character and yet in every stage of his arc he is relatable, engrossing and steals every scene he is in. I am also not sure I could really watch anything psi core without Walter Koenig as Bester, such a wonderfully nuanced 'bad guy' performance.
@@Reimalken I loved the characters and performances of both Londo and J'Kar, don't get me wrong - they were two of my favourite characters, as I think they were for most fans (although for me, Marcus Cole edges them off the top spot, but that's a personal preference).
The point I was making, though, is that it's not about Peter Jurasik's performance _itself,_ but the _effect_ his performance had on the rest of the cast. Meeting Londo for the first time was a catalyst for all the major characters - until they talked to Mollari they would all be pretty uptight and all-business, be they station personnel or ambassadorial staff, but after the first conversation with Londo they would all be left a bit baffled and confused... and how they _reacted_ to that would define that extra character dimension from that point forward.
If you look back at the introduction of any of the best-loved characters from the series (regulars or guest stars), most of them were pretty straight-laced until they had an encounter with Londo - usually he'd bump into them in the corridor and just say something random, or try to butter them up for future favors, and they would walk away shaking their heads or left standing with a stunned look on their face. _After_ that encounter, you would start to see a more humanised performance from them, as they talked to the next person they saw about the madman who had accosted them on their way, and that would break the ice with whoever they were talking to. Next thing you know - it's a more natural performance than when they first came aboard.
This even carried through to characters who never met Londo in person, as the cast members all felt more comfortable around each other playing their more natural roles, and this put the new actors at ease and gave them more licence to act more naturally as well - I'm not sure Bester ever met Londo face-to-face in the show, but by that time all the regular cast were so used to acting naturally and inhabiting their character with a more relaxed approach that it just rubbed off on Walter Koenig and he played his role in a way that had a lot more personality than Chekhov in *_Star Trek._* A lot of people might put that down to him simply growing as an actor since his early days, but I think a lot of it was down to the atmosphere among the rest of the cast... which, I propose, all came from the knock-on effect of their having worked a scene with Peter Jurasik.
Jurasik's weird accent, his crazed demeanour and his rambling way of beating around the bush would always elicit a comedic response from whoever he was interacting with, and that moment put the actor on the spot and forced them to think how their character would react _outside_ of who they were at work; you might say, it stripped away the bullet-point character descriptions the actors had been given, and forced them to imagine how a _real person_ would react to such a barrage of oddness.
I honestly think that was the secret of *_Babylon 5's_* wonderful characterisations. Peter Jurasik's performance itself aside, the moment any character first talked with Londo was the moment you saw beyond their uniform and their duty, and first saw the _person_ underneath.
Imagine you're a businessman in a bar negotiating a deal with a client. Things would be pretty relaxed and friendly and polite, sure, but everything you talk about would be relevant to the deal and your mind would still be on the job. Both you and your client would be calm and friendly, but you're still both on your guard, and you probably aren't acting the way you would if you were in the same bar with friends.
Then this mad drunk comes over, sits himself down at your table, and starts babbling away happily in some indefinable vaguely-Eastern-European accent. Maybe you listen politely for a bit, maybe you shoo him away, but either way you exchange a _look_ with your client once the crazy guy has gone. You'd still move on with what you were talking about before, but now you've both got that shared moment of, "Huh...?" and you've both seen how the other reacts to that situation which has nothing to do with your business-face. That little glimpse into the other person's character that you wouldn't have seen otherwise, that shared moment of disbelief which distracted you from your business, shows you a side of that client you would never have seen otherwise. Rather than just a client, you now see them as a _person._
_That's_ what Peter Jurasik brought to the role of Londo that I don't think would be easy to replace. While I love Andreas Kasulas' performance, the role could still be filled by another equally talented dramatic actor with some comedy chops (I'd recommend looking at a good Shakespearean actors for that skillset), just as a simple comic-relief character with a bit of pathos like Londo _could_ be played by many actors who perhaps have some comedic experience but are willing to stretch themselves dramatically. Filling the _character roles_ isn't the hard part, it's catching that lightning-in-a-bottle quality which catalyses the rest of the cast to think beyond the bullet-points of their character notes and get to the _person_ under the description.
_That's_ what I mean when I say that Peter Jurasik would be hard to replace; it's not just about how well he played the role of Londo, it's the effect on how everyone _else_ played _their_ roles as well.
I met Peter at a Long Island convention back in the mid 2000s. I was checking into the hotel that was connected to the con, and I don't remember if I asked the time, or was asked the time, and realized I was right next to Peter checking in. My eyes apparently turned to jumpgates-heh, and I kept it to about 5-7 seconds of something along the lines of, "you're awesome." After that, waited on line to check in, and went to his panels over the course of the weekend. I admit in the photo I have with him I'm half looking off camera grinning like a moron because I was honestly losing my mind meeting him. I also met Andreas, JMS, and Claudia briefly. I would have LOVED to meet Jerry or Stephen Furst. Still hoping once Covid goes away Bruce or Mira will be at a convention in my area.
@@Reimalken I also doubt you could "capture" the Londo/G'kar moments again. It was only something those 2 actors could bring to the show, and the almost "married couple" arguments and deep friendship that two characters developed with each other is something I have never seen replicated in any other sci-fi, before or after B5. There is simply too many things like that that could simply not be reproduced in a reboot. I can see it working for a sequel series or a prequel series, but not as a reboot. :/
Instead of a reboot, wouldn't it be easier just to update the special effects then rerelease it? Save the reboot for a future time.
Agree! Update the visuals to a higher resolution and re-market the show. I am re-watching it currently together with a few newcomers to the story (younger ones at that) that has never seen it or heard of it before...and they absolutely love it. There is nothing dated about this amazing space epic. An upgrade to HD visuals would do the trick.
Also, I LOVED CGI and respect the team who used a network of Amigas and one 486-based file server. As for the sets, the ones in Season 1 grew on me.... like how they always stood in Londos futuristic kitchen.
It was wonderful and complete as was. Leave it alone.
I wouldn't want a reboot, since it couldn't possibly be as good (or even close). They could, however, base a series on elements within B5, such as the Earth-Minbari war, the rise and fall of Pres. Clark on Earth (which would involve the Psi Corps), or the Rangers. They could do any of that with a different set of characters to avoid recasting.
No to a Reboot, but yes to an upgrade to the visuals, specificaly the space scenes, ships, and weapons fireing.
I'd hate that, the visuals are a big part of that show, there's the whole story on how they went for cg on a budget compared to what star trek was doing, I'd rather see a good restored version or a reboot that doesn't touch the original. Otherwise we'll get to the point, like star wars, were the original version is lost forever and you only have the modified versions
@@BADC0FFEE no, CGI was in it's infancy when B5 was made. CGI wasn't where it is today.
I think you bring up a lot of valid points on both sides of the question. To add to that, at one point after the series ended, JMS admitted that he plotted the whole series so that every single character could be replaced by a new one at various points, depending on whether or not an actor/actress needed to leave for whatever reason. One of the ways a reboot could work is to explore these alternate-lives/alternate-reality threads (shades of Star Trek movie reboots)...but the scripts would have to take into account the differences in characterization that a new cast would bring.
This is an important point, because we got one type of leader in Commander Sinclair, thanks to Michael's acting choices, and a very different kind of leader in Captain Sheridan, thanks to Bruce's different choices. Talia Winters was one type of psi, Lyta Alexander a different type of psi. Bill Mumy played his character in a very specific way in the first season, because he realized Lennier was a temple-raised Minbari being abruptly exposed to the much wider, wilder galaxy, and so although his *words* were JMS's dialogue from the script, whenever his character was out and about in the corridors and public spaces of the station, he would constantly stare at strange new things, visibly distracted by his surroundings. before pulling himself back onto the topic at hand.
Each and every one of these characters was different not just because of the script, but because of the person performing the role. And one of the genius moves JMS pulled as the series progressed was *listening* to his actors & actresses talking. Once he got a sense of how the performer talked in their most natural way, he started injecting some of their speech habits into the dialogues that were being written for their characters. This combination made these characters feel that much more like real people.
But there isone more thing that would have to be carefully considered. Babylon 5 hung together so well because JMS wrote some of the 1st season (every script had a few tweaks of dialogue from him), most of the 2nd season, ALL of the 3rd season (iirc, no one had ever done that before in television history), most of the 4th and again most of the 5th season. Star Trek had a whole pool of script writers that they could call upon, and guest screenwriters. If you don't have 1 person having The Final Say, then the kind of story that Babylon 5 is, and Deep Space Nine tried to be at times, but never got to be in whole...well, it just won't happen. Especially if some 'guest writer' wants to take the story off in a wild-hair direction that just won't fit the overall story arcs.
Of course, the advantage here, when it comes to pulling off a reboot, is that most of the story already exists. That means the scripts just need a little massaging to make them work, particularly in the beginning. That could even be done before the very first scene is filmed, ensuring that the whole series is as coherent and continuous as possible. (Though again, you'd still need to leave at least a little wriggle room for the actors to help develop the characters, bringing them fully to life.)
No No No, I get so tired of people rebooting popular shows and trying to add their own twist on things... Usually they suck.
I loved Babylon 5 just the way it was.
This would be a distinctly hard sell for me as the original cast owned those characters. A Babylon 5 adjacent story such as The Rangers would be something much more easily accepted, for me at least.
Drak war, or Dilgar war. Minbari war. Though that one is kind of already understood by fans.
Let it stand as it is, the greatest science fiction series until The Expanse.
I agree.
@none none well done for having an opinion and for delivering it with grace and aplomb
The Expanse was hardly on the same level. It looked amazing. But it wasn't deep at all.
You don't reboot a success you build on it... Babylon 5 has depth and scope that can be built on without impacting on the core story... There is so much more you could do with it.
Yes. And I think JMS should be the one to do it. On The CW.
I think, I think you might have something with this idea!
These are the characters in the show intro alone whom have passed beyond the Veil:
Commander Jeffrey Sinclair/Valen- Michael O'Hare
Doctor Stephen Franklin- Richard Biggs
G'Kar- Andreas Katsulas
Zack Allan- Jeff Conaway
Michael Garabaldi- Jerry Doyle
Vir Cotto- Stephen Furst
Had to refrain from clicking the like button cause there's nothing to like. Though I did meet Richard Biggs and Andreas.
Bugger
Bugger
Bugger
Bugger
Bugger
And bugger
Yes but don't let Fox get anywhere near it.
RIP Firefly.
Given how badly Fox has treated much loved franchises and IP over the years, I totally get the sentiment. :/
When you were talking about games inspired by it. I think of B5 every-time I play Elite Dangerous. Every time I fly my ship into a starport I think of flying into Babylon 5. The aliens in that game remind me of the shadows.
Ivanova as the protagonist is a great idea. She would be perfect for today's expectations. I think with some update Babylon 5 would be a very good reboot.
Comet tv on my dish TV plays the show 6times a day and it can be watched on thier website for free
Just discovered it last month. Now, I'm hooked 😆
I am fully in favour or remastering the show.
Also I would love to see the stories continued. There's so much that the original run only hinted at. The telepath war, the Drakh virus, the technomages (yeah, I know, covered in books), the thirdspace aliens, the "other Vorlon mistakes" hinted at in the Thirdspace movie.
But a reboot, I am not in favour of. Not NOW anyway. I fear today's political climate does not do the show any favours. Earthgov falling to fascism would trigger team MAGA. The telepaths being surpressed would trigger team Antifa. It would cause a shitstorm that I doubt the networks would be willing to take on. Removing these elements from the storyline would trigger the B5 fans, and would be like taking out part of the foundation of the show.
Can't be remastered due to lack of the Amiga cgi files as well as the Netter incident...
Excellent analysis 😃