here is Neil Messicks video that I talked about in this video: ruclips.net/video/GZlafLrdUro/видео.htmlsi=mb1WG4vs0PLVYg5f Check out more of our tractor videos here: ruclips.net/p/PLmYnhJtNUq7c2n8UTJASTf9qJQXQ_ngFP To interact with me personally, join the Rockhill farm Facebook group here: facebook.com/groups/1270496403596230/
We were a Kubota dealership from 1978 until 2005. We had a tough time selling to WW2 vets with a new foreign made product, but grew Kubota to the brand name that it is today in our area. We've been a Kioti dealership since 2006 and have also grown them to 25% total market share in our area. Kubota and John Deere dealers are on the defensive. The numbers don't lie, and they're losing market share almost everywhere. You should hear the things my customers tell me the JD and Kubota salesman tell them to try and talk them out of buying from me. I tell the customer "go look at everybody, then come see me!".
I looked at JD and Kubota 60hp tractors and decided on a Kioti NX that was a fraction of the price of an equivalent JD or Kubota. And all but 2 people in my area have Kioti's. One 24hp JD sub compact and one old 40hp Massey Ferguson. Everyone else has a Kioti.
I have two Kubotas that I bought used from private sellers. One of the local Kubota dealers I bought parts from (Compton Power Equipment in Springfield OH) had a falling out from Kubota maybe four years ago and went to selling Kioti instead.
I like Neil Messick's content. I own a Kubota. Full disclosure complete... Your opinion on this and your reaction to his take is absolutely spot on accurate.
When looking for a tractor for my mother in law to purchase for her property I took many things into consideration. However price was the largest one. I went to the New Holland and Kubota dealerships near me along with Kioti and Bobcat. I ended up going with TYM/Branson for my compact tractor. For less than the cost of just the tractor at JD or Kubota I was able to get the tractor, brush hog, box blade, tiller, backhoe, grapple, loader and pallet forks. Which put us in a position to do almost everything we need to do on this property. When you are not running a business that you can depreciate the cost of the equipment into price becomes a very large factor.
I''m just starting a farm and am new to it, but I am wondering why you don't start an LLC so you can depreciate the cost of equipment and deduct expenses?
I agree with Neils assessment on the current tractor market. The compact tractor market is over saturated with too many products and a lack of buyers. JD and Kubota will be just fine along with NH selling larger tractors. Neils overall assessment that the lack of sales for these units will not justify keeping them in the market long term.
The South Korea brands offer a lot more tractor for less money than Deere or Kubota. RUclips makes it easy for tractor shoppers to see that. I think Deere and Kubota are feeling the heat.
I don't even think so much about that for the actual tractors, a lot of the problems are attachments/implements/ and add-on components. These major brand tractor companies charge outrageous prices for the matching paint color attachments/implements, where you can go aftermarket get the same or better quality for a lot less money....now you go to the lesser known brand tractors and you can many times buy a lesser quality machine, but get a great package deal on the tractor and implements....or the machine is great quality, but their implements aren't so great....or you get equal quality machine and implements for slightly more money by stepping up a size, or choosing a different brand, and different line of implements that are more heavy duty VS light duty implements...lots of times these lesser known companies have different lines of equipment under different names based on usage type...gotta shop around and find what is best for the buyer rather than what a youtuber says. Some like the treadle pedal, some like the dual pedals like JD has....as one example. Buy what fits you rather than color/brand.
I am so glad to see someone else talk about this. I wish I could click the like button 100 times. Here's the comment I left on Neil's original video: I have a friend who used to own a fairly large retail company in a niche market, and he would always drop little insults against competitors, or brands he didn't sell. He even got upset with me once for saying something nice about one of his competitors. That type of attitude is extremely arrogant, patronizing and off-putting. I don’t know that Neil does this, I’m not suggesting that at all, but this video does have that vibe, and I do feel like his underlining intention here was to place a bad light on the brands he doesn't sell, other than John Deere, which is the Corleone of the industry. Some of the information he gives here is definitely true and useful, but the problem is he lumped a lot of brands together that do not seem to fit his “concerns” and left the viewer confused about which ones might be at risk. He even spins the information he’s giving to make it OK to buy his non-premium brand, which actually could fit in the risk category. A good rule of thumb when taking in information you get from any source, trusted or not, is to filter it through the understanding that a half truth is a whole lie. If you inform me of a concern you have, but intentionally, or even lazily, leave information out that may influence my final opinion/decision, then you have an agenda more than you have a concern, and ultimately you are lying to me. Actually, reading between the lines, my take away from this video is those “risk” brands are starting to eat more and more into Green and Orange sales, and their dealers are feeling it. Here's the deal, pickle, If you're a good dealer, and you sell a good product, you don't need to go after anyone. Just sell your products. Just do your thing. That’s not what is happening here. This was poor taste in my opinion. Tractor Time with Tim has done the best presentation of risk, that I have seen, when it comes to purchasing a tractor from a newer company, or a tractor that is not manufactured by the company itself. Even though we all know he loves his green tractors, he was fair and honest and didn’t push you to any specific brands. He just gave you the information - all the information, and left you to make your own decision. I might not own one of Messick's brands of tractors, but I still considered them a wealth of information, and would have purchased other products from them. Now, I'm not so sure I want to. After seeing this I don't know that I trust their opinion so much, or at least I'll be more skeptical that they have my best interest at heart. Now I’ll always have that feeling in the back of my mind that they are just another typical salesman trying to make a sale.
Spot on Brock! Glad you made this video. TYM and LS will only continue to take market share and JD and Kubota need to be more competitive. I doubt my next tractor will be a Kubota. *Keep on tractoring*
I would hope your next tractor isn't a Kubota, you've pretty much done everything you can on the BX as far as video content....time to move onto a different color, the only question would be are ya gonna keep the BX HAHA!!! I love my BX2680, but if I had to do it again, I'd still go with Kubota. In my area JD and Kubota are the top 2 dealers. If JD brought in another dealer besides the one they have I may look at them again, but their proprietary couplers in certain areas, immediately turned me off, sure you can get adapters, but why should you, just make the dang machine compatible with every other machine on the market. That was one gripe I had with JD, the other was the local dealer's salesmen's piss poor attitudes towards non-farmers. I think a option I'd look at would be the Massey sub-compact or compact machines.
you are right jd and kub need to drop those prices big time, what i call gentlemen farmers the guy working office days he looks for the $ for his 20 acre plot couple beefs and chickens
I’m a John Deere guy. I have 5100e 5115m 5045e 331g skid steer. With that stated most people looking at smaller companies do not look at John Deere because they think that they are too high. I challenged a friend that was going to buy a kabota compact tractor to go to heritage and compare price! Guess what without telling them the price of the kabota or that he was looking at them he got a better price and got a package with a trailer. I do not believe that many will go out of business. To many people form opinions before they go look just like car shopping. We always need to consider the source of information. Competition is great and I agree. When I shop I look at service and how close I can go to get parts. Why I went green and they hold value. Great job and in no way a rant!
About a year or so ago I was heavily shopping tractors. I liked the Kubota L series for the loader action but the capacity was a little lower than I needed. I was drawn to Kioti, Branson, Mahidra LS etc. They had better prices and better specs for my purposes. What stinks is that Kubota is the only one nearby to me. I wouldn’t even consider JD because of the proprietary attachments and the lower capacity along with the money. I think your analysis is valid for sure. Always well thought out!
For me it is the dealership and not so much the brand. If my local dealership sold Kioti, and were just as good to me as they were to me with my Kubota, I would own a Kioti. Great video, Brock, thank you and, Cheers!
Thanks for this video. I myself took a little offense to Neil’s video. As a very brand loyal person. I am a Ford guy, farmall guy, Can-am guy, Mack trucks guy. Yet I bought a Massey Ferguson compact, make that 3 so far ( keep upgrading) and work for International truck dealership. Change is always good. I almost bought a Kubota but hated the hydro pedal. I did not rule out JD yet was less than impressed with there sales department at the local dealer. Massey was not on my radar until I had a conversation with the dealer. Who at the time had been in business in the same store as a family for 70 years. I was sold on that alone. Again thanks for the video. I still watch Neil and probably will.
You did a fine job with that Brock. Running a dealership, I have a unique perspective and see things that others don't. That's kind of why I tried to make this about math. I can't name names without it really looking bad. But the math says the industry has a problem. I've yet to see a comment take issue with that. I'm leaving it to others to draw conclusions where things go from there. The only thing I take issue with, and a reoccurring theme I see a lot, is the ease of jumping to another company to find parts. We run into this a lot. It can be done, but it's a lot more difficult than just trying to figure out what other company sold your tractor.
Love it that you called this out. I watched that video not because I follow that other channel but thought it was ridiculous that they made that video.
Howdy Brock! Hoo doggie... lots to unpack here... lol. The problem with percentages is they don't tell the whole story. If you owned 80% of the market in 1980, that would only be significant if the number of customers today was the same as in 1980. And obviously it isn't. The current size of the subcompact and compact tractor market is massive compared to 40 years ago. And that market has zero impact on large ag tractors. A lot of people in the market today wouldn't have even considered a small tractor in the '80s. And many of those that did want or need a smaller tractor bought a 30 or 40 year old unit used. You made the perfect point that most of these 'off' brand tractors are made of components from only about 3 major international companies. And those three are HUGE. Even Deere has started using imported diesels in some of their sub compacts. So yeah... fear of not finding parts isn't really legitimate - it just might take a little more effort to find the part. Thank you internet! lol! Great stuff Brock - thanks for sharing 🤠
Neil a very respectable person and has his family business interest in mind. That said , you sir is 100% correct in your opinion, remember honda automobiles in its infancy in North America. Fast forward currently ....who is Honda today, nuff said ?
Brock, I totally agree with you. The free market system is by far the best system. In my area we have one John Deere dealer who owns all of the dealerships, and the service is terrible, they give you no options to choose another dealership for service. The more choices you have the better the product and the service.
Regarding the split between the 12 companies, that's obviously not an even split. A few companies share the majority or at least a plurality, but most of the rest don't sell many units. He's also not saying that they are all in trouble, but that buyers should be wary of smaller brands because parts availability may be limited for brands that don't sell many units. Even if Kubota or John Deere go out of business, they sell so many units that there will likely be someone making commonly replaced parts for them, just like you can still find almost any part you need for 70 year old farmall tractors.
When I was a kid we had several old tractors- Farmall, Oliver, Ford, Long and International. The first tractor I owned was a Yanmar, then a John Deere( with a Yanmar engine) and kept it 14 years. I am now on my 2nd LS tractor and value for the dollar and dealer support is what I’m loyal to, not a tractor color.
Thanks for sharing your opinions in these front porch/quonset hut settings. Bravely, yet respectfully, sharing our opinions helps all of us learn and grow. I wish there was more respectful opinion sharing out there. Neil's videos are good. I have seen him reply to videos he is mentioned in. Maybe he'll travel to SE Kansas and do a collaborative video with you. Keep up the good work!!
I saw that video differently. I took his OVERALL point being that the industry can't maintain unchecked growth. He's right about that. He also said that historically the tractor industry shrinks and when that happens, some of the companies in that space go away. He's right about that. As far as the thing about an influencer with a tractor brand, I bet he was talking about Courtney, with Good Works Tractors. You run Deere and there's not much to say about that. Summit is one of the brands in the greatest danger of indistry shrink.
Courtney doesn't promote Summit anymore - that was a limited partnership from the beginning. Courtney has a video up about it. And Courtney obviously likes Deere and Kubota, but he's not a dealer for either of those brands.
You hit the nail on the head Brock. Thank You. I actually had a 20 year old Kubota BX2200. Ran like a top. Did everything its little size allowed it to do and even more when I pushed it. But when I needed a much larger tractor I could not afford a new Kubota or Deere. I went with the LS which had more features for way far less money. And being on Social Security you do what you have to. And I'll tell you that the LS is a monster tractor. Works hard and keeps on ticking. I love it. And with 250 hrs in two years, and 9 months of that time I was laid up physically, That tractor has paid for itself. So thank you for being who you are. An honest man. Today that is something to be proud of. Take care Brock and God Bless.
Yes, I think you took it to personal, however I think you were 100% spot on about everything else. I think what happened was Kubota got burnt by a couple of RUclipsrs and Neil is talking to kubota about more employees like him at other dealerships instead of using RUclipsrs for marketing. In other words it would be better for dealerships to employ salespeople rather than give tractor’s to RUclips. Like always, just my opinion, have fun and keep making sawdust!
Proud new owner of a Kioti CK series for one week. Why Kioti? Because I could get a fully loaded cab tractor for less than the comparable open station Deere or Kubota with less options.
Here is my issue. My local Green dealer could care less about selling anything but $150k+ tractors, combines, and equipment. They really aren't even shy about saying it. My local Kubota dealer likes to sell tractors, but not service them. My Kioti dealer bends over backwards for me. As a result, I dumped my JD990, traded my my Kubota and and now have 2 Kioti's. 4 years, no regrets. Will likely trade the first Kioti I bought next year, just because. It's run flawlessly for 1400 hours, just feels like time to get a bigger cab tractor instead of my open station.
Lots of great points in your video, Brock. I agree that as a kid, I never would have guessed that Sears, or the entire local mall, would go out of business.
I think your video was very articulate, mature, and professional, but to answer your question of "am I being overly sensitive?", I'd say yes. His points were valid, your points are valid. My takeaway from his video was to be cautious and not just jump at the cheapest deal you can find because someone on RUclips that's being paid to do so is telling you brand XYZ is so great. In this day and age when people who start off independently reviewing products are suddenly incentivized to recommend something, it blurs the lines between what is and isn't genuine. Personally, when someone introduces a new partnership they're starting and immediately says "this is the greatest thing ever" with no steps in between, I'm skeptical. That's my opinion of what was meant to be conveyed in that video, but as you said, we're all entitled to our opinions and it's okay if we disagree.
Brock, I believe you are dead on 100% correct with your take away on the Neil video! I have several larger HP tractors and have never been on the Green & Orange train for a ride…. That said my gut has never had a single good feeling about anything Neil has ever said in any of his videos… he’s just a little too slick for me. I like you want to get real opinions from actual users and not salesman! As a guy I’ve followed on RUclips for a few years now would say about the other brands in the market place….. “THEY AINT GOING NO WHERE” !!!! 🔥🔥🔥. I believe just the opposite of Neil…. I think Deere is in decline and better be looking in the rear view mirror.. great video of breaking it down! As the great chief wampum would say……… “Neil speak with forked tongue” 😂😂😂. 🔥🔥🔥
I think the best thing to do for a potential buyer, like you said, go talk to people who own what you are thinking of buying, see what they like, don't like, repairs, overall ownership costs, downtime, etc. That is 100% more accurate than any dealer is gonna tell you, they want your money, after that they really don't care if they see you again, they want that huge sell, not your business for anything else, especially warranty work because they can't charge you their ridiculous shop labor rates for repairs. I bought a Kubota because my neighbor had 2 of them over the years, he started with a B series, expanded his garden and other side jobs and ended up getting an LX later on....never had problems with them...he sold the LX for almost what he bought it for a decade later.
The newest Deere products that I've seen people buy have been absolute garbage. The 10 series seems decent, but otherwise I don't like deere at all. The right-to-repair issue says a lot about how they view their customers.
I think this video is informative and mostly correct. The difference I see from a historical perspective is this. Japanese companies have consistently brought products to the US market that were superior in both engineering design and build quality compared to anything else available. They did it with motorcycles, atvs, snowmobiles, cars, pickup trucks, tractors and probably lots of other things. Were 4x4 compact tractors even a thing here before Kubota? I don’t see the same situation today with the quality of other Asian built products. That being said, I love my TYM and chose it to save money knowing how handy I am in the repair and maintenance of machinery.
Recently i priced out a JD 25 hp tractor with a cab for 47000.00, Mahindra uses the same engine for 29000.00. I fail to see how the green paint is worth almost double the price.
Hey Brock, agree with you 100%. When I bought my tractor I was pricing around I did stay away from the littler brands and I bought a Kabota. I looked at John Deere. There were some factors that influence me to buy a kubota now let’s get it straight. I leased my Kabota, and I was looking at leasing a John Deere, John Deere was only offering me 500 hours over five years kubota offered me 2000 hours over five years that made a big influence on me but what made the biggest influence for me to choose the tractor that I bought which is a Kubota is the fact that the dealership was closer than John Deere the dealership. They had mechanics that worked on them Versus the LS Mahindra and coyote dealers didn’t have their own service department. Are those other brands any better any worse I can’t say when you’re doing your research to buy a piece of equipment you need to do your homework I did a lot of searching first guy I found his tractor time with tim, he’s a John Deere man and that’s fine but I was amazed how much work he could do with a small tractor so the factors of throws made me to a Kubota was because the service dealership was closer. The other brands didn’t have the support so that’s why I chose to stay away from them if I lived in an area where the other other brands would have support for their machines, I might’ve chose otherwise price point the tractors were all priced in the same ballpark to me the Ytm the LS Mahindra they were not cheap enough to convince me to buy Great video
Another fence sitter here. You did illustrate the other side to the argument well Brock. Personally I didn't feel like Neil was out of line with his comments, and in truth it doesn't sound like you did either. Neil taking a jab at social influencers while valuing his expertise at a higher degree is valid. Sure the social influencer (which I'm not sure you are) can take offense, but just be careful not to discredit the viewers ability to decipher why people have their own perspectives. There's a reason we all watch many different channels. I'm not a big fan of these call-out or rebuttal videos but that's just me. Positive messaging is why I believe most of us are here. You are top-notch at that!
I watched Neil's video when it was published, and I agree with your counter-points while still conceding that without perfect information and a crystal ball, it's pretty tough to make definitive statements one way or the other. Regarding the "influencer" bit....I don't think that was aimed at you. There are a lot of channels out there that receive free equipment (tractors, etc) for use on the channel and basically makes those channels infomercials for the brand. While your relationship with Artillian/Curtis could be construed that way, we all know that you have bought (or at least signed your life away for..) your tractor, track-loader, etc. So I don't think there's reason to get too upset for yourself..though I agree Neil painted with a pretty broad brush there and most of the "influencers" that he targeting actually do a pretty good job in giving honest feedback. At least, the ones worth watching do.
While both JD and Kubota provide great products, JD has decided to proprietize their equipment and is expensive to own and operate. Kubota is the highest priced tractor out there in my area. Niether of them provide a much superior product compared to the lesser known equipment that comes with more things standard that are expensive upgrades on the two "main" brands. Which in my opinion is making them lose part of the market, JD even went so far as to make it nearly impossible to troubleshoot any problems you may have with their proprietary design
Sir you make several good points. I just bought a new tractor, and I was concerned about getting a unit that would have support in the future. I looked at several brands. A tough decision. I went with Kubota, because I'm hoping that when that machine gets older, I can still get parts for it. And the dealer is in my town. I almost bought a LS tractor it was very tempting, it was a fine unit, however the dealership was 60 miles away, but the price point was much lower, so tempting. I have a family member that just got a new Kioti tractor and loves it. So, buying a tractor isn't as easy, as someone might think. Thanks for the video
100% Agree with you, Brock. He definitely took a stab at influencers talking about the brands that sponsor them. And, arguably, so does Neil. I felt it was an extremely hypocritical statement. As if he was placing himself above others who sell the brands that partner with them, & who they chose to partner with. Just like Neil does. It doesn't matter if his name is on the sign. That only means he is self-sponsored. It had the clueless-snobby-kid-on-the-playground kinda vibe.
A few months ago I was a first time tractor shopper. After a LOT of research, and hundreds of videos, I was 95% sure I was going to buy a Kioti. On paper it was the winner. I went to the dealer to see it in person and to get a quote. I was shocked to see what I believe was simply poor craftsmanship. The tractor just didn’t seem like time and care was taken when it was constructed. I left the dealership almost at a loss. The next day I went to my 2nd option, Kubota. As soon as I saw the tractor I knew it was a much better made machine. I immediately thought omg how much more is this tractor going to cost. After sitting in the sales office, I almost hit the floor when he said the price. Only $400 more then Kioti had quoted! I was SOLD! I love my Kubota and I’m 100% positive I made the right choice
@@DonnieDarko727 the two big things that stood out the most were sloppy welds and exposed/loose wires. I had such high expectations after seen so many videos praising Kioti and I was excited to get so much more lifting power, but it didn’t live up to the hype in person
JD has always been a minor player in the smaller HP tractor market because they focused their attention on the larger, production agricultural tractors. In recent years they have put an effort into selling smaller horsepower tractors and have increased their market share because the demand for larger tractors and equipment fell around 2018 to 2020. Kubota came into the U.S. in 1972 with a complete focus upon the smaller horsepower range. Ford was the small tractor leader and most likely did underestimate Kubota's influence. JD only controls about 35% of the total tractor market and have major competition from CaseIH, which is the old International Harvester, Case, Ford and New Holland.
Great video, you made a lot of excellent points. I love the competition. I always said that in any industry competition is good even as an employee. If there is a monopoly out there, you don’t have a lot of other places you can go if you want to leave. Competition is always good. I have a John Deere and love it but see a lot of things they made mistakes on. Thanks for taking the time.
in my opinion KIOTI has one of the best tractors for the cost, they also offer great financing offers like JD and Kubota. TYM isn't bad but good luck on getting 0% rates.
I agree 100%! My Kioti has been excellent. One small problem in 200 hours (and my dealer took care of it immediately). JD and Kabota, (in my opinion) will continue to lose market share to Kioti, TYM, and perhaps LS in the years to come. And I believe it will be because they sell a good tractor for a fair price. JD and Kabota compete against each other. I think they don't see the Korean tractors as a real threat. (and that's why they will continue to lose market share)
It could be. I know this isn’t going to happen, but I bet if Kubota for some weird reason ended their contract with Neil we would see another brand on his channel a lot more.
I usually buy from a local dealer for everything that I can. In 2014 there were three tractor dealers relatively close to me, Kubota, JD, and New Holland. I bought a Kubota and was happy to get all my maintenance stuff, in person, at the dealership. Today those dealerships are all GONE. Interestingly enough they were all family owned and when the OG's died the kids couldn't keep their feces in order so they all closed. The NH dealership building is still being used, but not affiliated with any compact market. The name on the building changed. I think they sell Toro and maybe something else. The JD dealership is now a Beer Distributer and convenience store. The Kubota was part of the NH building. Changing times for sure. Take care.
Here is one thing that I have looked at as a former CaseIH/New Holland employee. There are ups and downs in segments of the economy. I personally feel that a dealership/company that only sells/makes compact tractors will have a very difficult time staying afloat in a market where compact tractor sales are down for a period of time. Typically market segments are not all down at the same time. If Compact tractors are down, higher horsepower ag tractors or construction equipment can keep a dealership/manufacturer afloat. I worry more about local dealership support for these compact tractor only brands.
You make some very good points. Imho, some of the other brands like NH and Kioti (for example), are releasing tractors that out perform JD and Kubota. Deere in particular has been relying on 100 years of great marketing, dealership availability and brand loyalty. Today's consumers are not from the farming community and don't have the brand loyalty that our fathers did. In my own history, I was told JD was king, and have owned 3 now, but, when money is king, I am forced to openly examine other brands and have owned Kioti CK series and NH boomer series. Why did I switch? simple, the "other" brands had better hydraulics and price. Lastly, I would consider a Kubota with a power reverser, but strongly dislike their treddle pedal, favoring a 2 pedal hydro instead.
I have an expenive repair on a 4xxx series hst tractor. Was looking at kioti. All my attachments are jd qa. So sort of stuck. Also the weird bsp fittings on kioti. But really good machines for more than a brick of money less than green and orange.
I agree with your assessment 100% Brock! Neil is a salesman trying to sell Kubota…and I’m a Kubota owner! I’m looking at purchasing a SANY mini-excavator
I believe dealer support is the most important consideration when buying a compact tractor. I ended up with a Massey Ferguson. My dealer sold them and Kubota, and I felt Massey was a better fit for me. The compact tractor market seems to be contracting after the huge Covid expansion. I would not be surprised to see some leave the market. I think Summit will go soon. Their dealer model is not ideal. Sell through box stores but try to contract support through other entities. I think support will kill them. In a true market economy a bad supply/support model should fail.
Agree that in the retail space, we've seen the rise of Target and Wal Mart whereas Sears, Montgomery Wards, and K-Mart have gone out of business. And have seen many tractor brands go out of business. I have my own preferences in this space but won't say because then you get branded as a XXXX Fan Boy. Remember that when you're buying a tractor or anything else you're also buying the dealer for service and parts network. So at the lower end of the sales structure, some dealers/brands will go out of business as they just can't get enough sales for a sustainable business model. No one wants an "orphan." But parts on any model that goes out of production can be problematic. BTW, haven't had any Case equipment for years but Case is tied to International Harvester (Case IH) with their large tractors and which has Farmall compact tractors. Then Case is now CNH (Case New Holland). Then Ford bought New Holland in 1985 (if my years are right) a number of years ago and then Fiat bought New Holland in 1990. I do have an old moth-balled Ford wheel tractor (1950's era) so with CNH overall, maybe I do have "Case" equipment (ha, ha).
Some of these companies could potentially go out of business, but who am I to say which ones it will be. Probably the ones who do the best job of executing their business model will be the ones who win
I didn't take Neil's video that he was throwing shade on your channel, because I don't see your channel as a "sponsored" channel that is posting JD 2038R content because you got the tractor for free/discount. In fact, I can't think of any channel that would fit his stereotypical classification. TTWT is the closest, because he gets free machines from a local dealer to showcase, but I don't see that as JD itself giving him the machine to push the brand. Deere yet
Well said, Brock! I also disagreed with Messick's video. I found it biased, opinionated, and misleading. (and yes, he has the right to share his opinion) I commented about that particular video on his channel, and to date, I don't believe I received a reply. I also believe my comment was the only one NOT complimenting him on a "job well done." I personally don't know Neil, and I am not bashing him....I just happen to strongly disagree with him. Thanks for sharing your opinion, Brock!
I mostly appreciated Neil's video for what it was and he was as transparent as you could expect from any dealer of any brand. Now having said that, his numbers were US only and he didn't do a great job of distinguishing between a company that might completely go out of business vs one that just might exit the compact tractor market. I also had to laugh at his influencer comment. I mean OWTM is team Kubota with half of Mike's equipment free on loan. Are we to lump Mike in with that influencer crowd? Of course not. Each influencer has their own level of credibility and trustworthiness. They should be viewed as individuals, not a single group of deplorables.
OUTSTANDIN' VIDEO!! I PROBABLY WATCH ALL THOSE RUclipsRS YOU DIDN'T MENTION ( FOR PROFESSIONAL REASONS ) AND HAVE NOTICED THAT SOME WERE PROMOTIN' ONE BRAND, THEN POPED OVER TO ANOTHER BRAND.. FOR EXAMPLE, COUPLE YEARS BACK. I WAS CHECKIN' OUT THIS ONE CHANNEL CAUSE I WAS INTERESTED IN THIS ONE PARTICULAR TRACTOR. MONTHS LATER, THEY SWITCHED TO ANOTHER BRAND AND STARTED SAYIN' THAT WAS BEST. THEN, THEY SWITCHED TO ANOTHER. BUT COME TO FIND OUT THE ONE BRAND WAS BOUGHT OUT BY THE OTHER, SO ESSENTIALLY, THEY ENDED UP BEING' THE SAME... OK, SO WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST TRACTOR? WHERE DID IT GO ??? AND WHY??? NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THAT... THEN THERE'S THE FOLKS THAT ACTUALLY BUY THE EQUIPMENT AND PROMOTE THE PRODUCT, MAYBE BECAUSE THE THINK THE EQUIPMENT IS GREAT. OTHERS PROMOTE THE EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE CAUSE SOMEONE GAVE THEM THE PRODUCT TO USE FOR A YEAR OR SO AND SAY GOOD THINGS ABOUT IT. KINDA LIKE THE COUNTRY ARTISTS AND NASCAR SCENARIO YOU MENTIONED... SO I SERMISE THAT WATCHIN' RUclips CAN BE INFORMATIVE... IF YOU WATCH THE FOLKS THAT ARE TRUE TO THE MACHINES THEY USE THROUGH THICK OR THIN. RATHER THAN THE ONES THAT CHANGE BRANDS WITH NO EXPLANATION, OTHER THAN TO GET FREE USE OF OTHER EQUIPMENT, JUST TO PROMOTE THE BRAND FOR SPONSORSHIP... I LIKED YOUR VIDEO BECAUSE OF THE INFORMATIONAL ASPECT IT PROVIDED TO THE VIEWERS ABOUT HEARSAY INFORMATION AS OPPOSED TO ACTUAL INFORMATION... IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T GO THROUGH LIFE WITH BLINDERS ON, BUT PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S ALL AROUND YOU... THANX FOR THIS VIDEO, I WISH MORE FOLKS WERE LIKE YOU AND DISCUSSED IMPORTANT ISSUES THE SAME... KEEP PUSHIN' ON, PEACE, FROM CREEL CHIHUAHUA, MEXICO...
Neil & Brock in the octagon in Vegas next year????!? Great video Brock. Excellent points. - I actually like both videos, and think they are looking thru different glasses…. But it’s an awesome conversation! Thanks for adding great stuff to think on!
LOL Well… as you were a former business owner (though, your RUclips channel is like a new business) so I consider you to be of the mindset of a business owner (Capitalism!!), I too own businesses… and I could relate to some of what Neil was saying about deeper issues that a consumer generally doesn’t completely think about. It’s great to look back and think about some of that kind of stuff from time to time to see if you can learn. Employees, supply chain (especially thru Covid), cash flow, inventory costs, material and operational costs, etc. If I squint and listen to him out of focus, I could hear and agree that the back side of the business could put some business out of business. And I think it would be foolish for anyone to think the color tractor is forever protected from going out of business. . But do I care? Yes and no. I feel smart companies will continue. Not always the best. Sometimes the worst. And we all hope the one we pick will be around in the end! . I think he took a decent “first punch” on the topic. But I too disagree on some of his points. I feel you set up a “knock out punch” in reply. . It wouldn’t surprise me if Neil would like to either take back or rephrase some of his comments. Maybe not. You put together a fantastic reaction video. But I have no insights on what Neil might do. . I’m not go’in Anywhere. I’m on Brock’s side of the fence. . Looks like Louisville treated you well!
I’m all for everyone having a chance and for companies paying people to review and use their products. I would have a problem if those companies asked me to only say good things and not have an honest review of their product. If you can’t be truthful about the product and give an honest review then I personally couldn’t do it but I’m not a RUclipsr, yet! Nothing wrong with these companies giving folks products to try and get their name out there. I think it’s good business practice. If it fails, fine. If it works it works. I think there is truth to Neil’s video and truth to your video, Brock. That’s why I watch both channels. I bought a 1025R tractor and a few small attachments simply because of the dealer around here but if I had it to do over, I would probably go another route and get a cheaper tractor with more attachments for less money. That being said, I believe there are companies I wouldn’t buy simply because of the unknown at this point but that is subject to change.
Very thorough Brock, accurate and fair. I kept thinking I’d have something to add, but you kept covering every point I had 😂 Well, suppose it’s time to get back to “making noise!”
I consider it bad business to speak negatively about your competitors. That is exactly what he did. He definitely took a jab at the RUclipsrs. He either lives in a bubble or is not very smart. There is a great deal of helpful information available on RUclips. It cracks me up when propogandists try to use a few numbers/percentages to make their point. Because the numbers are almost always inaccurate. I really appreciate your objectivity and your channel. Thanks for sharing.
Neil is right to predict that the sub compact market is going to shrink going forward, to many units were frontloaded at cheap interest rates and people retiring out to some acreage. He didnt mention the reputational damage caused by the supply chain shortages to the big dealers. This right to repair/youll own nothing is causing damage aswell.
I spent the last year shopping for a new tractor. John Deere and Kubota have priced themselves out of most folks buying from them. They keep raising prices so much and offer lower options and specs. If someone actually does their homework they will see that. Paint color is just that, a color of paint.
I have a kubota b2601 several john deere 400 series 430 1025, gravely walk behinds an old massy Ferguson an a few ford's. I just like tractors. All of them.
Me too. I love the old tractors, but I also love the new tractors, and the little tractors, and the big tractors. I like the green ones but the orange ones and the red ones and the blue ones are also nice
I think Neil has a great point. The 30% share divided by 12 manufacturers isn’t sustainable. The cost of existence is just to high for small volume brands to exist.
Yeah… As a 20 year mechanic. I can assure you that future parts support SHOULD be a concern for anyone looking to hold onto a machine longer than a year or two. Just because there is a bit of parts sharing between some brands doesn’t necessarily mean that the parent company has any interest in supporting the no longer sold versions of their machines. A perfect example of this is Ford! Until 2011 Ford diesels were all supplied by International Truck/Navistar. It’s very well known and both sides being Ford and Navistar were very proud of the partnership. (Until later for obvious reasons) However, if you try to go to a Navistar dealer for parts for your Powerstroke engine that EVERYONE KNOWS and openly acknowledges is made by Navistar. You will be stonewalled… They 100% WILL NOT intentionally sell you parts for a Powerstroke Diesel Engine. You have to fool them into thinking that you have a Navistar variant like a VT365 (6.0L) or Maxxforce 7 (6.4L) or 90% of their dealers will simply say “we don’t sell ford parts, call your local ford dealer” and hang up.
He's clearly taking a swipe at Kioti, Kubota's biggest threat right now. Tractors will always have value, it would be wise to purchase a brand with good outlook for parts and service availability.
Safe and sound …. Colleen and I don’t have any rides planned anywhere anywhere near where you are for the coming year but maybe in 2025? Until then see you next year
I think you missed what Neil was saying. It’s about infrastructure mare then quality or price. He was saying do your homework before you buy. You took it personally but what his point is make sure you or someone else can repair it 10 years down the road.
I took time to complement that Neil made those points. I specifically said I agreed with him on both of the things you said. Counterpoint I was making is that the companies we are talking about are in some cases bigger companies than Kubota. They’re just not bigger with compact tractors in the US market. I wouldn’t be surprised if TYM is bigger than Kubota. The company that owns LS is bigger than Kabota. Solis is the smallest company and they are fifth in the world and tractor sales. I also took it personally that there was an implication that people like myself were giving their credibility for sponsorships, but he is a beacon of truth.
Brock. Great job explaining this. Im in the market for a compact tractor. Some of the newer names scare me for the unknown of the future of their company. I was beating the trail looking at the 3 series John Deere's and was sold on them for a good bit. Then i started looking into the 20 series Kioti tractors Specifically the 2620's "because of the non exhaust particulate filter" and doing my own research before talking to a salesman. I was pleasantly surprised when i finally made it to a Kioti dealer. I was talking to him about John Deere's also and my thoughts. He did a great job not bashing any other manufacture and just stayed true to the Kioti specs and what they are capable of. Im more confused now on what to do. After researching the Kioti brand more they have some fantastic offers and it seems a bit cheaper. I watched you 400hr review video on the Ck2610 and it seems like a solid machine.
I think all the brands make a good Tractor. I like the idea of buying from a company that makes their own tractors. kubota, kioti, Yanmar, LS, and TYM, all fit that description.
Kioti could have a real winner with that unit. Specs are crazy good and engine easy to work on. I've read a few horror stories about the rear end casting cracking or the fel overloading the front axle. Quality control seems to be the biggest complaint.
@ricksanchez7459 I'm really liking that machine. I was looking at the deere 3025e before but got turned off of it when I learned the transmission case is all cast aluminum on the hydrostatic model
@TheRustyGarage Only experience weve had with the e series was a 5055e and it went back for a/c they wouldnt cover under warranty, said pressure washer cut condensor but we use air to blow cooling packs out. It had something wrong with the clutch computer where it would lock down if you rode it to much, like loader work. It was light, even with loaded tires it needed a bale on the back to handle bales with the fel. Loader operation wasnt smooth, hard to drop smoothly. We were unimpressed with jd economy offering thats for sure. New holland workmaster has been waaaay nicer. That kioti can be tuned up after warranty expires Ive read. Ive seen it handle 4x5 pretty handily.
Agreed. If there were only 2 Tractor companies then we probably wouldn't be able to have what we have today. I've had Mahindra max24 and I have a kubota L3130. The kubota is great but it has a default and it's weight. It just doesn't have enough lead in it britches. That can be fixed but compared to other brands that are of physical size and hp it weights less. I can say I wouldn't lose any sleep at night buying something other than JD or Kubota.
OK, I wasn't going to comment, but then we got to 16:30. Yeah, it's kind of a "me" thing. He's talking about people who are given a tractor by a manufacturer, and those people are promoting it like it's the next thing since sliced bread. You have a JD, you like it a lot, you tell us that, and that's fine. But you're not sponsored by JD. I believe he's talking about the shill type videos, the ones where the person has absolutely nothing bad to say about the product, and probably has a clause where they can't. I personally tend to agree with Neil in that as the market is diluted with more manufacturers (or resellers, if you prefer, since many of them don't actually manufacturer the tractors), that they're going to fail. Parts will be more difficult to find because there's no reason for the parent company to continue to support that machine as the reseller has disappeared. And if I were guessing, I'd say Neil is taking a shot at Summit specifically.
I don’t currently have a tractor deal but I’m friends with all of the guys who do, and I have deals on other equipment Being honest and impartial is difficult but we all do our best at it
@@RockhillfarmYT , Understood. I thought it funny he chose "Social Media" and noise. My Phraseology didn't come across! Keep up the great channel Brock!
I really like JD and Kubota but i dont think they will put anybody under with their current pricing , People are more fickle now days with the value of a dollar , I spent 3 months last fall looking for a compact tractor and i mean almost every brand and about went blind watching youtube vids lmao but true , In the end and i wasnt price shopping at all i ended up buying a RK25 made by TYM . The warranty is great and it already has about every option on it and fitted with the yanmar diesel , Very happy so far and zero issues 285 hours on it will see , The back tires are already loaded for weight as well !
I just want a loader attachment for a 2500, 3500, 4500, or 5500 truck. Don’t need a tractor or any or attachments. Maybe a box blade attachment for rear of truck that bolts to hitch
As long as you keep your opinions honest I like watching a true comparison I would like to see more of the so called value tractors and to be honest I bought a badboy 1025h I don’t have a lot of land and it fits not to mention the price and I trust the yanmar engine which is in how many other tractors did I make a mistake buying it
It just depends upon your tolerance for risk. Competition is always good and should be encouraged. It may well be that there are indeed better tractors than JD and Kubota out there for less money. But that alone still does not negate the extra risk involved in buying one of those tractors. It still MIGHT be in your best interest to buy a higher-priced tractor that is not as good by some small measure because of the long-term value and parts availability. So there, imo, is not a "right" solution for everyone. I think Neil's point was well taken. I also see your point that some people might want a cheaper tractor. If they are willing to accept the risk, great. From what little I have seen of the TYM, Kioti, Mahindra, etc, I like them. But there is (for now) some risk involved in buying one of those if you plan to keep it long-term. I would love to see JD taken down a notch or two concerning their attempts to control the market and restrict repair to their own shops! But hey, I love the green. So what do I know? 🙂
Interestingly (to me anyways) Bobcat makes their own loaders for their rebranded Kioti "Bobcat" tractors. And they lift less max weight than the Kioti loaders on the same tractor. So if Bobcat ends their partnership with Kioti at some point, you will / should be able to get the parts for the tractor at your local Kioti dealer, but not the loader, you'll have to see if Bobcat will keep their loader's parts available. I'm not sure if this would be an actual problem or not, that is beyond my non-expertise, just a "food-for-thought" kinda thing. I haven't watched Neil's video that is referenced here (if I am saying that correctly...), not sure if I will. But I would like to see Kioti sponsor Brock with a DK6020SE cab tractor so he can have one of the good, other Orange, tractors! Then he can rave, or not, about it to all his followers..... Have a good one!!👍
Kubota is feeling it they are making changes to the new models because Kioti and TYM there closest competitors are offering standard options that Kubota has traditionally considered add ons. They are being forced to upgrade the 01 series going forward to better compete.
Dude I couldn’t agree more ! I watched his video and while I definitely agree with a lot of what he said my first thought was these other brands are very likely to grow than shrink because of the high prices of everything nowadays especially tractors people are looking for the best bang for your buck. While I’m a strong Deere fan and kubota fan as well I just don’t see their sales continuing to stay strong because of pricing alone. And like you I’d rather support a company who will send out a product to a regular ordinary guy . Honestly I’d never consider a tym until I saw them on some of these channels and now I’d give them a serious look before buying another tractor.
I don't think Neil was talking about all youtubers who discuss tractors, just the ones who get free tractors or discounted tractors and then say nothing but good things about them.
Yeah, and I think the reason it bothers me is because I’m doing the same thing Neil is. He takes tractor attachments from the same company as I do, and talks about them on his channel in the same way that I do. But it felt like in this video he was separated himself from everyone else in that regard. If you partner with a company, you have a natural inclination to favor them all the time. We all do it.
I stopped watching stoney ridge farmer because of this. He turned into a fan boy for companies that gave him free stuff. Plus he is a baby when people criticize him. Its childish. But he was in the air force. So I’m not surprised
@@82ndpara21 stoney ridge farm was the first farm channel I really got into, and I still watch him. He has some good stuff. But I get what you're saying. My grandmother and I were looking at compact tractors for her garden, and we had narrowed it down to Kubota of Massey Ferguson. I left a comment on one of his videos asking which he thought was better, and he just said go buy a TYM. That kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
Stony Ridge Farmer, Hamiltonville Farm started out as good youtube channels then they ended up in the sponsors back pocket, then the bias. Channels forget what they were built on. Boy do they whine & cry when they get negative comments!
Orange and green have gotten a little big for their britches. Do I think either will go away? No I do not. Do I think they need to do some serious soul searching, and somehow do a price adjustment? Yes I do. Kioti, TYM, maybe even summit are beating up on them big time in the “home owner/homestead “ market
I watch all your videos however I found this one to be petty. I had a Cub Cadet tractor that I scraped just because I couldn’t get parts I think Neal was just trying to point something out which I didn’t think about when I bought my Cub Cadet that I lost several thousand dollars on because of not being able to get parts.
I appreciate your opinion. I found Neil’s video to be petty. As I said at the beginning. The good thing is that we can all have opinions and we don’t have to agree about everything.
I have a kubota a new holland, and a John Deere. I personally find the new holland the best product but Kubota the best dealer network and John Deere has green paint and depend on their reputation for product sales.
here is Neil Messicks video that I talked about in this video:
ruclips.net/video/GZlafLrdUro/видео.htmlsi=mb1WG4vs0PLVYg5f
Check out more of our tractor videos here:
ruclips.net/p/PLmYnhJtNUq7c2n8UTJASTf9qJQXQ_ngFP
To interact with me personally, join the Rockhill farm Facebook group here:
facebook.com/groups/1270496403596230/
We were a Kubota dealership from 1978 until 2005. We had a tough time selling to WW2 vets with a new foreign made product, but grew Kubota to the brand name that it is today in our area. We've been a Kioti dealership since 2006 and have also grown them to 25% total market share in our area. Kubota and John Deere dealers are on the defensive. The numbers don't lie, and they're losing market share almost everywhere. You should hear the things my customers tell me the JD and Kubota salesman tell them to try and talk them out of buying from me. I tell the customer "go look at everybody, then come see me!".
Thanks for sharing your experience
I looked at JD and Kubota 60hp tractors and decided on a Kioti NX that was a fraction of the price of an equivalent JD or Kubota. And all but 2 people in my area have Kioti's. One 24hp JD sub compact and one old 40hp Massey Ferguson. Everyone else has a Kioti.
I have two Kubotas that I bought used from private sellers. One of the local Kubota dealers I bought parts from (Compton Power Equipment in Springfield OH) had a falling out from Kubota maybe four years ago and went to selling Kioti instead.
I like Neil Messick's content. I own a Kubota. Full disclosure complete... Your opinion on this and your reaction to his take is absolutely spot on accurate.
When looking for a tractor for my mother in law to purchase for her property I took many things into consideration. However price was the largest one. I went to the New Holland and Kubota dealerships near me along with Kioti and Bobcat. I ended up going with TYM/Branson for my compact tractor. For less than the cost of just the tractor at JD or Kubota I was able to get the tractor, brush hog, box blade, tiller, backhoe, grapple, loader and pallet forks. Which put us in a position to do almost everything we need to do on this property.
When you are not running a business that you can depreciate the cost of the equipment into price becomes a very large factor.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it
I''m just starting a farm and am new to it, but I am wondering why you don't start an LLC so you can depreciate the cost of equipment and deduct expenses?
If we are just out here making noise then it must be working because the big guys are getting scared!
Keep making that "noise" Brock and Daniel! 🙂
You are spot on. Neil is off base on this.
I agree with Neils assessment on the current tractor market. The compact tractor market is over saturated with too many products and a lack of buyers. JD and Kubota will be just fine along with NH selling larger tractors. Neils overall assessment that the lack of sales for these units will not justify keeping them in the market long term.
The South Korea brands offer a lot more tractor for less money than Deere or Kubota. RUclips makes it easy for tractor shoppers to see that. I think Deere and Kubota are feeling the heat.
I don't even think so much about that for the actual tractors, a lot of the problems are attachments/implements/ and add-on components. These major brand tractor companies charge outrageous prices for the matching paint color attachments/implements, where you can go aftermarket get the same or better quality for a lot less money....now you go to the lesser known brand tractors and you can many times buy a lesser quality machine, but get a great package deal on the tractor and implements....or the machine is great quality, but their implements aren't so great....or you get equal quality machine and implements for slightly more money by stepping up a size, or choosing a different brand, and different line of implements that are more heavy duty VS light duty implements...lots of times these lesser known companies have different lines of equipment under different names based on usage type...gotta shop around and find what is best for the buyer rather than what a youtuber says. Some like the treadle pedal, some like the dual pedals like JD has....as one example. Buy what fits you rather than color/brand.
Brock, thank you for sharing the other side of the coin. Respectful disagreement is how everyone can learn and grow. Nicely done!
I am so glad to see someone else talk about this. I wish I could click the like button 100 times.
Here's the comment I left on Neil's original video:
I have a friend who used to own a fairly large retail company in a niche market, and he would always drop little insults against competitors, or brands he didn't sell. He even got upset with me once for saying something nice about one of his competitors. That type of attitude is extremely arrogant, patronizing and off-putting. I don’t know that Neil does this, I’m not suggesting that at all, but this video does have that vibe, and I do feel like his underlining intention here was to place a bad light on the brands he doesn't sell, other than John Deere, which is the Corleone of the industry. Some of the information he gives here is definitely true and useful, but the problem is he lumped a lot of brands together that do not seem to fit his “concerns” and left the viewer confused about which ones might be at risk. He even spins the information he’s giving to make it OK to buy his non-premium brand, which actually could fit in the risk category. A good rule of thumb when taking in information you get from any source, trusted or not, is to filter it through the understanding that a half truth is a whole lie. If you inform me of a concern you have, but intentionally, or even lazily, leave information out that may influence my final opinion/decision, then you have an agenda more than you have a concern, and ultimately you are lying to me. Actually, reading between the lines, my take away from this video is those “risk” brands are starting to eat more and more into Green and Orange sales, and their dealers are feeling it. Here's the deal, pickle, If you're a good dealer, and you sell a good product, you don't need to go after anyone. Just sell your products. Just do your thing. That’s not what is happening here. This was poor taste in my opinion. Tractor Time with Tim has done the best presentation of risk, that I have seen, when it comes to purchasing a tractor from a newer company, or a tractor that is not manufactured by the company itself. Even though we all know he loves his green tractors, he was fair and honest and didn’t push you to any specific brands. He just gave you the information - all the information, and left you to make your own decision.
I might not own one of Messick's brands of tractors, but I still considered them a wealth of information, and would have purchased other products from them. Now, I'm not so sure I want to. After seeing this I don't know that I trust their opinion so much, or at least I'll be more skeptical that they have my best interest at heart. Now I’ll always have that feeling in the back of my mind that they are just another typical salesman trying to make a sale.
I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on it
hes under the impression that the name messics is gospel but the net has totaly changed that and the you tube vides change a lot of minds of $ vs use
Spot on Brock! Glad you made this video. TYM and LS will only continue to take market share and JD and Kubota need to be more competitive. I doubt my next tractor will be a Kubota.
*Keep on tractoring*
I would hope your next tractor isn't a Kubota, you've pretty much done everything you can on the BX as far as video content....time to move onto a different color, the only question would be are ya gonna keep the BX HAHA!!!
I love my BX2680, but if I had to do it again, I'd still go with Kubota. In my area JD and Kubota are the top 2 dealers. If JD brought in another dealer besides the one they have I may look at them again, but their proprietary couplers in certain areas, immediately turned me off, sure you can get adapters, but why should you, just make the dang machine compatible with every other machine on the market. That was one gripe I had with JD, the other was the local dealer's salesmen's piss poor attitudes towards non-farmers.
I think a option I'd look at would be the Massey sub-compact or compact machines.
you are right jd and kub need to drop those prices big time, what i call gentlemen farmers the guy working office days he looks for the $ for his 20 acre plot couple beefs and chickens
I’m a John Deere guy. I have 5100e 5115m 5045e 331g skid steer. With that stated most people looking at smaller companies do not look at John Deere because they think that they are too high. I challenged a friend that was going to buy a kabota compact tractor to go to heritage and compare price! Guess what without telling them the price of the kabota or that he was looking at them he got a better price and got a package with a trailer. I do not believe that many will go out of business. To many people form opinions before they go look just like car shopping. We always need to consider the source of information. Competition is great and I agree. When I shop I look at service and how close I can go to get parts. Why I went green and they hold value. Great job and in no way a rant!
About a year or so ago I was heavily shopping tractors. I liked the Kubota L series for the loader action but the capacity was a little lower than I needed. I was drawn to Kioti, Branson, Mahidra LS etc. They had better prices and better specs for my purposes. What stinks is that Kubota is the only one nearby to me. I wouldn’t even consider JD because of the proprietary attachments and the lower capacity along with the money.
I think your analysis is valid for sure. Always well thought out!
For me it is the dealership and not so much the brand. If my local dealership sold Kioti, and were just as good to me as they were to me with my Kubota, I would own a Kioti. Great video, Brock, thank you and, Cheers!
Thanks for this video. I myself took a little offense to Neil’s video. As a very brand loyal person. I am a Ford guy, farmall guy, Can-am guy, Mack trucks guy. Yet I bought a Massey Ferguson compact, make that 3 so far ( keep upgrading) and work for International truck dealership. Change is always good. I almost bought a Kubota but hated the hydro pedal. I did not rule out JD yet was less than impressed with there sales department at the local dealer. Massey was not on my radar until I had a conversation with the dealer. Who at the time had been in business in the same store as a family for 70 years. I was sold on that alone. Again thanks for the video. I still watch Neil and probably will.
You did a fine job with that Brock. Running a dealership, I have a unique perspective and see things that others don't. That's kind of why I tried to make this about math. I can't name names without it really looking bad. But the math says the industry has a problem. I've yet to see a comment take issue with that. I'm leaving it to others to draw conclusions where things go from there.
The only thing I take issue with, and a reoccurring theme I see a lot, is the ease of jumping to another company to find parts. We run into this a lot. It can be done, but it's a lot more difficult than just trying to figure out what other company sold your tractor.
Love it that you called this out. I watched that video not because I follow that other channel but thought it was ridiculous that they made that video.
Howdy Brock! Hoo doggie... lots to unpack here... lol. The problem with percentages is they don't tell the whole story. If you owned 80% of the market in 1980, that would only be significant if the number of customers today was the same as in 1980. And obviously it isn't. The current size of the subcompact and compact tractor market is massive compared to 40 years ago. And that market has zero impact on large ag tractors. A lot of people in the market today wouldn't have even considered a small tractor in the '80s. And many of those that did want or need a smaller tractor bought a 30 or 40 year old unit used. You made the perfect point that most of these 'off' brand tractors are made of components from only about 3 major international companies. And those three are HUGE. Even Deere has started using imported diesels in some of their sub compacts. So yeah... fear of not finding parts isn't really legitimate - it just might take a little more effort to find the part. Thank you internet! lol! Great stuff Brock - thanks for sharing 🤠
Always appreciate your thoughts on it Steve
Neil a very respectable person and has his family business interest in mind. That said , you sir is 100% correct in your opinion, remember honda automobiles in its infancy in North America. Fast forward currently ....who is Honda today, nuff said ?
Brock, I totally agree with you. The free market system is by far the best system. In my area we have one John Deere dealer who owns all of the dealerships, and the service is terrible, they give you no options to choose another dealership for service. The more choices you have the better the product and the service.
Regarding the split between the 12 companies, that's obviously not an even split. A few companies share the majority or at least a plurality, but most of the rest don't sell many units. He's also not saying that they are all in trouble, but that buyers should be wary of smaller brands because parts availability may be limited for brands that don't sell many units. Even if Kubota or John Deere go out of business, they sell so many units that there will likely be someone making commonly replaced parts for them, just like you can still find almost any part you need for 70 year old farmall tractors.
When I was a kid we had several old tractors- Farmall, Oliver, Ford, Long and International. The first tractor I owned was a Yanmar, then a John Deere( with a Yanmar engine) and kept it 14 years. I am now on my 2nd LS tractor and value for the dollar and dealer support is what I’m loyal to, not a tractor color.
Thanks for sharing your opinions in these front porch/quonset hut settings. Bravely, yet respectfully, sharing our opinions helps all of us learn and grow. I wish there was more respectful opinion sharing out there. Neil's videos are good. I have seen him reply to videos he is mentioned in. Maybe he'll travel to SE Kansas and do a collaborative video with you. Keep up the good work!!
I saw that video differently.
I took his OVERALL point being that the industry can't maintain unchecked growth. He's right about that.
He also said that historically the tractor industry shrinks and when that happens, some of the companies in that space go away. He's right about that.
As far as the thing about an influencer with a tractor brand, I bet he was talking about Courtney, with Good Works Tractors. You run Deere and there's not much to say about that. Summit is one of the brands in the greatest danger of indistry shrink.
I appreciate your opinion
Courtney doesn't promote Summit anymore - that was a limited partnership from the beginning. Courtney has a video up about it. And Courtney obviously likes Deere and Kubota, but he's not a dealer for either of those brands.
Courtney is now promoting Kioti very hard in his recent videos.
You hit the nail on the head Brock. Thank You. I actually had a 20 year old Kubota BX2200. Ran like a top. Did everything its little size allowed it to do and even more when I pushed it. But when I needed a much larger tractor I could not afford a new Kubota or Deere. I went with the LS which had more features for way far less money. And being on Social Security you do what you have to. And I'll tell you that the LS is a monster tractor. Works hard and keeps on ticking. I love it. And with 250 hrs in two years, and 9 months of that time I was laid up physically, That tractor has paid for itself. So thank you for being who you are. An honest man. Today that is something to be proud of. Take care Brock and God Bless.
Yes, I think you took it to personal, however I think you were 100% spot on about everything else. I think what happened was Kubota got burnt by a couple of RUclipsrs and Neil is talking to kubota about more employees like him at other dealerships instead of using RUclipsrs for marketing. In other words it would be better for dealerships to employ salespeople rather than give tractor’s to RUclips. Like always, just my opinion, have fun and keep making sawdust!
Thanks for the feedback
Proud new owner of a Kioti CK series for one week. Why Kioti? Because I could get a fully loaded cab tractor for less than the comparable open station Deere or Kubota with less options.
I love this video.
Thank you sir
Here is my issue. My local Green dealer could care less about selling anything but $150k+ tractors, combines, and equipment. They really aren't even shy about saying it. My local Kubota dealer likes to sell tractors, but not service them. My Kioti dealer bends over backwards for me. As a result, I dumped my JD990, traded my my Kubota and and now have 2 Kioti's. 4 years, no regrets. Will likely trade the first Kioti I bought next year, just because. It's run flawlessly for 1400 hours, just feels like time to get a bigger cab tractor instead of my open station.
Lots of great points in your video, Brock. I agree that as a kid, I never would have guessed that Sears, or the entire local mall, would go out of business.
Or K-Mart…. Or Kodak…. Or Blockbusters!!!!
Or Radio Shack!
@@dustdevl1043 Loved that place!
@@dustdevl1043i think it rebranded as “The Source”?
I think your video was very articulate, mature, and professional, but to answer your question of "am I being overly sensitive?", I'd say yes. His points were valid, your points are valid. My takeaway from his video was to be cautious and not just jump at the cheapest deal you can find because someone on RUclips that's being paid to do so is telling you brand XYZ is so great. In this day and age when people who start off independently reviewing products are suddenly incentivized to recommend something, it blurs the lines between what is and isn't genuine. Personally, when someone introduces a new partnership they're starting and immediately says "this is the greatest thing ever" with no steps in between, I'm skeptical. That's my opinion of what was meant to be conveyed in that video, but as you said, we're all entitled to our opinions and it's okay if we disagree.
Thanks for your thoughts
I have owned three kabotas and they preformed great very dependable and I worked them hard very few problems. Keep doing great videos.
I have nothing negative to say about kubota. Thanks for watching.
Brock, I believe you are dead on 100% correct with your take away on the Neil video! I have several larger HP tractors and have never been on the Green & Orange train for a ride…. That said my gut has never had a single good feeling about anything Neil has ever said in any of his videos… he’s just a little too slick for me. I like you want to get real opinions from actual users and not salesman! As a guy I’ve followed on RUclips for a few years now would say about the other brands in the market place….. “THEY AINT GOING NO WHERE” !!!! 🔥🔥🔥. I believe just the opposite of Neil…. I think Deere is in decline and better be looking in the rear view mirror.. great video of breaking it down! As the great chief wampum would say……… “Neil speak with forked tongue” 😂😂😂. 🔥🔥🔥
I think the best thing to do for a potential buyer, like you said, go talk to people who own what you are thinking of buying, see what they like, don't like, repairs, overall ownership costs, downtime, etc. That is 100% more accurate than any dealer is gonna tell you, they want your money, after that they really don't care if they see you again, they want that huge sell, not your business for anything else, especially warranty work because they can't charge you their ridiculous shop labor rates for repairs.
I bought a Kubota because my neighbor had 2 of them over the years, he started with a B series, expanded his garden and other side jobs and ended up getting an LX later on....never had problems with them...he sold the LX for almost what he bought it for a decade later.
The newest Deere products that I've seen people buy have been absolute garbage. The 10 series seems decent, but otherwise I don't like deere at all. The right-to-repair issue says a lot about how they view their customers.
I think this video is informative and mostly correct. The difference I see from a historical perspective is this. Japanese companies have consistently brought products to the US market that were superior in both engineering design and build quality compared to anything else available. They did it with motorcycles, atvs, snowmobiles, cars, pickup trucks, tractors and probably lots of other things. Were 4x4 compact tractors even a thing here before Kubota? I don’t see the same situation today with the quality of other Asian built products. That being said, I love my TYM and chose it to save money knowing how handy I am in the repair and maintenance of machinery.
I personally believe that TYM and KIOTI are putting pressure on John Deere and Kubota. JMO
Recently i priced out a JD 25 hp tractor with a cab for 47000.00, Mahindra uses the same engine for 29000.00. I fail to see how the green paint is worth almost double the price.
Dealership support and availability, I o
Dont own a JD and never will but thats the reason
Hey Brock, agree with you 100%. When I bought my tractor I was pricing around I did stay away from the littler brands and I bought a Kabota. I looked at John Deere. There were some factors that influence me to buy a kubota now let’s get it straight. I leased my Kabota, and I was looking at leasing a John Deere, John Deere was only offering me 500 hours over five years kubota offered me 2000 hours over five years that made a big influence on me but what made the biggest influence for me to choose the tractor that I bought which is a Kubota is the fact that the dealership was closer than John Deere the dealership. They had mechanics that worked on them Versus the LS Mahindra and coyote dealers didn’t have their own service department. Are those other brands any better any worse I can’t say when you’re doing your research to buy a piece of equipment you need to do your homework I did a lot of searching first guy I found his tractor time with tim, he’s a John Deere man and that’s fine but I was amazed how much work he could do with a small tractor so the factors of throws made me to a Kubota was because the service dealership was closer. The other brands didn’t have the support so that’s why I chose to stay away from them if I lived in an area where the other other brands would have support for their machines, I might’ve chose otherwise price point the tractors were all priced in the same ballpark to me the Ytm the LS Mahindra they were not cheap enough to convince me to buy
Great video
Thanks. I have nothing negative to say about kubota.
Another fence sitter here. You did illustrate the other side to the argument well Brock. Personally I didn't feel like Neil was out of line with his comments, and in truth it doesn't sound like you did either. Neil taking a jab at social influencers while valuing his expertise at a higher degree is valid. Sure the social influencer (which I'm not sure you are) can take offense, but just be careful not to discredit the viewers ability to decipher why people have their own perspectives. There's a reason we all watch many different channels. I'm not a big fan of these call-out or rebuttal videos but that's just me. Positive messaging is why I believe most of us are here. You are top-notch at that!
I bought a Ls xj2025h and has been an excellent tractor and a new dealer opened up closer to my house
We really enjoy your and messicks' channels, nothing wrong with debate!
I'd probably have a Kubota if not for the treadle pedal. It's just difficult and uncomfortable for my big foot.
I watched Neil's video when it was published, and I agree with your counter-points while still conceding that without perfect information and a crystal ball, it's pretty tough to make definitive statements one way or the other. Regarding the "influencer" bit....I don't think that was aimed at you. There are a lot of channels out there that receive free equipment (tractors, etc) for use on the channel and basically makes those channels infomercials for the brand. While your relationship with Artillian/Curtis could be construed that way, we all know that you have bought (or at least signed your life away for..) your tractor, track-loader, etc. So I don't think there's reason to get too upset for yourself..though I agree Neil painted with a pretty broad brush there and most of the "influencers" that he targeting actually do a pretty good job in giving honest feedback. At least, the ones worth watching do.
While both JD and Kubota provide great products, JD has decided to proprietize their equipment and is expensive to own and operate. Kubota is the highest priced tractor out there in my area. Niether of them provide a much superior product compared to the lesser known equipment that comes with more things standard that are expensive upgrades on the two "main" brands. Which in my opinion is making them lose part of the market, JD even went so far as to make it nearly impossible to troubleshoot any problems you may have with their proprietary design
Right to repair is a bad look for John Deere and a bad situation for farmers
Sir you make several good points. I just bought a new tractor, and I was concerned about getting a unit that would have support in the future. I looked at several brands. A tough decision. I went with Kubota, because I'm hoping that when that machine gets older, I can still get parts for it. And the dealer is in my town. I almost bought a LS tractor it was very tempting, it was a fine unit, however the dealership was 60 miles away, but the price point was much lower, so tempting. I have a family member that just got a new Kioti tractor and loves it. So, buying a tractor isn't as easy, as someone might think. Thanks for the video
100% Agree with you, Brock. He definitely took a stab at influencers talking about the brands that sponsor them. And, arguably, so does Neil. I felt it was an extremely hypocritical statement. As if he was placing himself above others who sell the brands that partner with them, & who they chose to partner with. Just like Neil does. It doesn't matter if his name is on the sign. That only means he is self-sponsored. It had the clueless-snobby-kid-on-the-playground kinda vibe.
A few months ago I was a first time tractor shopper. After a LOT of research, and hundreds of videos, I was 95% sure I was going to buy a Kioti. On paper it was the winner. I went to the dealer to see it in person and to get a quote. I was shocked to see what I believe was simply poor craftsmanship. The tractor just didn’t seem like time and care was taken when it was constructed. I left the dealership almost at a loss. The next day I went to my 2nd option, Kubota. As soon as I saw the tractor I knew it was a much better made machine. I immediately thought omg how much more is this tractor going to cost. After sitting in the sales office, I almost hit the floor when he said the price. Only $400 more then Kioti had quoted! I was SOLD! I love my Kubota and I’m 100% positive I made the right choice
Congrats on the new machine
"Poor craftsmanship." Examples? Kioti has better specs, but made worse?
@@DonnieDarko727 the two big things that stood out the most were sloppy welds and exposed/loose wires. I had such high expectations after seen so many videos praising Kioti and I was excited to get so much more lifting power, but it didn’t live up to the hype in person
@@OneBrightLightTN gotcha. I guess I don't mind, so it don't matter lol. What model and year were you looking at?
@@DonnieDarko727 2023 CK2620 and 2023 L2502 were the models I looked at
JD has always been a minor player in the smaller HP tractor market because they focused their attention on the larger, production agricultural tractors. In recent years they have put an effort into selling smaller horsepower tractors and have increased their market share because the demand for larger tractors and equipment fell around 2018 to 2020. Kubota came into the U.S. in 1972 with a complete focus upon the smaller horsepower range. Ford was the small tractor leader and most likely did underestimate Kubota's influence. JD only controls about 35% of the total tractor market and have major competition from CaseIH, which is the old International Harvester, Case, Ford and New Holland.
Great video, you made a lot of excellent points. I love the competition. I always said that in any industry competition is good even as an employee. If there is a monopoly out there, you don’t have a lot of other places you can go if you want to leave. Competition is always good. I have a John Deere and love it but see a lot of things they made mistakes on. Thanks for taking the time.
Thanks for your thoughts on it
in my opinion KIOTI has one of the best tractors for the cost, they also offer great financing offers like JD and Kubota. TYM isn't bad but good luck on getting 0% rates.
I agree 100%! My Kioti has been excellent. One small problem in 200 hours (and my dealer took care of it immediately). JD and Kabota, (in my opinion) will continue to lose market share to Kioti, TYM, and perhaps LS in the years to come. And I believe it will be because they sell a good tractor for a fair price. JD and Kabota compete against each other. I think they don't see the Korean tractors as a real threat. (and that's why they will continue to lose market share)
My local TYM dealer is offering 0% right now on some models.
I think the social media influencers comment was referring to Good Works Tractor recently ending his paid promotion of Summit and switching to Kioti.
It could be. I know this isn’t going to happen, but I bet if Kubota for some weird reason ended their contract with Neil we would see another brand on his channel a lot more.
He's not getting paid to promote Kioti
I usually buy from a local dealer for everything that I can. In 2014 there were three tractor dealers relatively close to me, Kubota, JD, and New Holland. I bought a Kubota and was happy to get all my maintenance stuff, in person, at the dealership. Today those dealerships are all GONE. Interestingly enough they were all family owned and when the OG's died the kids couldn't keep their feces in order so they all closed. The NH dealership building is still being used, but not affiliated with any compact market. The name on the building changed. I think they sell Toro and maybe something else. The JD dealership is now a Beer Distributer and convenience store. The Kubota was part of the NH building. Changing times for sure.
Take care.
Here is one thing that I have looked at as a former CaseIH/New Holland employee. There are ups and downs in segments of the economy. I personally feel that a dealership/company that only sells/makes compact tractors will have a very difficult time staying afloat in a market where compact tractor sales are down for a period of time. Typically market segments are not all down at the same time. If Compact tractors are down, higher horsepower ag tractors or construction equipment can keep a dealership/manufacturer afloat. I worry more about local dealership support for these compact tractor only brands.
I don't think he was talking about you (or others in general), I think he was taking a swipe at good works tractors specifically.
You make some very good points. Imho, some of the other brands like NH and Kioti (for example), are releasing tractors that out perform JD and Kubota. Deere in particular has been relying on 100 years of great marketing, dealership availability and brand loyalty. Today's consumers are not from the farming community and don't have the brand loyalty that our fathers did. In my own history, I was told JD was king, and have owned 3 now, but, when money is king, I am forced to openly examine other brands and have owned Kioti CK series and NH boomer series. Why did I switch? simple, the "other" brands had better hydraulics and price. Lastly, I would consider a Kubota with a power reverser, but strongly dislike their treddle pedal, favoring a 2 pedal hydro instead.
I have an expenive repair on a 4xxx series hst tractor. Was looking at kioti. All my attachments are jd qa. So sort of stuck. Also the weird bsp fittings on kioti. But really good machines for more than a brick of money less than green and orange.
I agree with your assessment 100% Brock! Neil is a salesman trying to sell Kubota…and I’m a Kubota owner! I’m looking at purchasing a SANY mini-excavator
I believe dealer support is the most important consideration when buying a compact tractor. I ended up with a Massey Ferguson. My dealer sold them and Kubota, and I felt Massey was a better fit for me. The compact tractor market seems to be contracting after the huge Covid expansion. I would not be surprised to see some leave the market. I think Summit will go soon. Their dealer model is not ideal. Sell through box stores but try to contract support through other entities. I think support will kill them. In a true market economy a bad supply/support model should fail.
Agree that in the retail space, we've seen the rise of Target and Wal Mart whereas Sears, Montgomery Wards, and K-Mart have gone out of business. And have seen many tractor brands go out of business. I have my own preferences in this space but won't say because then you get branded as a XXXX Fan Boy. Remember that when you're buying a tractor or anything else you're also buying the dealer for service and parts network. So at the lower end of the sales structure, some dealers/brands will go out of business as they just can't get enough sales for a sustainable business model. No one wants an "orphan." But parts on any model that goes out of production can be problematic. BTW, haven't had any Case equipment for years but Case is tied to International Harvester (Case IH) with their large tractors and which has Farmall compact tractors. Then Case is now CNH (Case New Holland). Then Ford bought New Holland in 1985 (if my years are right) a number of years ago and then Fiat bought New Holland in 1990. I do have an old moth-balled Ford wheel tractor (1950's era) so with CNH overall, maybe I do have "Case" equipment (ha, ha).
Your spot on my friend!
Some of these companies could potentially go out of business, but who am I to say which ones it will be. Probably the ones who do the best job of executing their business model will be the ones who win
I didn't take Neil's video that he was throwing shade on your channel, because I don't see your channel as a "sponsored" channel that is posting JD 2038R content because you got the tractor for free/discount. In fact, I can't think of any channel that would fit his stereotypical classification. TTWT is the closest, because he gets free machines from a local dealer to showcase, but I don't see that as JD itself giving him the machine to push the brand.
Deere yet
Well said, Brock! I also disagreed with Messick's video. I found it biased, opinionated, and misleading. (and yes, he has the right to share his opinion)
I commented about that particular video on his channel, and to date, I don't believe I received a reply. I also believe my comment was the only one NOT complimenting him on a "job well done." I personally don't know Neil, and I am not bashing him....I just happen to strongly disagree with him. Thanks for sharing your opinion, Brock!
I appreciate your thoughts on it
***** BROCK for CONGRESS ***** 👍
I mostly appreciated Neil's video for what it was and he was as transparent as you could expect from any dealer of any brand. Now having said that, his numbers were US only and he didn't do a great job of distinguishing between a company that might completely go out of business vs one that just might exit the compact tractor market. I also had to laugh at his influencer comment. I mean OWTM is team Kubota with half of Mike's equipment free on loan. Are we to lump Mike in with that influencer crowd? Of course not. Each influencer has their own level of credibility and trustworthiness. They should be viewed as individuals, not a single group of deplorables.
OUTSTANDIN' VIDEO!! I PROBABLY WATCH ALL THOSE RUclipsRS YOU DIDN'T MENTION ( FOR PROFESSIONAL REASONS ) AND HAVE NOTICED THAT SOME WERE PROMOTIN' ONE BRAND, THEN POPED OVER TO ANOTHER BRAND.. FOR EXAMPLE, COUPLE YEARS BACK. I WAS CHECKIN' OUT THIS ONE CHANNEL CAUSE I WAS INTERESTED IN THIS ONE PARTICULAR TRACTOR. MONTHS LATER, THEY SWITCHED TO ANOTHER BRAND AND STARTED SAYIN' THAT WAS BEST. THEN, THEY SWITCHED TO ANOTHER. BUT COME TO FIND OUT THE ONE BRAND WAS BOUGHT OUT BY THE OTHER, SO ESSENTIALLY, THEY ENDED UP BEING' THE SAME... OK, SO WHAT ABOUT THE FIRST TRACTOR? WHERE DID IT GO ??? AND WHY??? NO ONE TALKS ABOUT THAT... THEN THERE'S THE FOLKS THAT ACTUALLY BUY THE EQUIPMENT AND PROMOTE THE PRODUCT, MAYBE BECAUSE THE THINK THE EQUIPMENT IS GREAT. OTHERS PROMOTE THE EQUIPMENT THEY HAVE CAUSE SOMEONE GAVE THEM THE PRODUCT TO USE FOR A YEAR OR SO AND SAY GOOD THINGS ABOUT IT. KINDA LIKE THE COUNTRY ARTISTS AND NASCAR SCENARIO YOU MENTIONED... SO I SERMISE THAT WATCHIN' RUclips CAN BE INFORMATIVE... IF YOU WATCH THE FOLKS THAT ARE TRUE TO THE MACHINES THEY USE THROUGH THICK OR THIN. RATHER THAN THE ONES THAT CHANGE BRANDS WITH NO EXPLANATION, OTHER THAN TO GET FREE USE OF OTHER EQUIPMENT, JUST TO PROMOTE THE BRAND FOR SPONSORSHIP... I LIKED YOUR VIDEO BECAUSE OF THE INFORMATIONAL ASPECT IT PROVIDED TO THE VIEWERS ABOUT HEARSAY INFORMATION AS OPPOSED TO ACTUAL INFORMATION... IN OTHER WORDS, DON'T GO THROUGH LIFE WITH BLINDERS ON, BUT PAY ATTENTION TO WHAT'S ALL AROUND YOU... THANX FOR THIS VIDEO, I WISH MORE FOLKS WERE LIKE YOU AND DISCUSSED IMPORTANT ISSUES THE SAME... KEEP PUSHIN' ON, PEACE, FROM CREEL CHIHUAHUA, MEXICO...
Excellent video Brock! Well said! I guess I better watch my "tractor noise" lol
A lot of guys making noise out there and Neil is just providing information
Neil & Brock in the octagon in Vegas next year????!? Great video Brock. Excellent points. - I actually like both videos, and think they are looking thru different glasses…. But it’s an awesome conversation! Thanks for adding great stuff to think on!
Pick a side here. I got no room for fence setters
Sorry I missed your message in Louisville. Crazy week
LOL
Well… as you were a former business owner (though, your RUclips channel is like a new business) so I consider you to be of the mindset of a business owner (Capitalism!!), I too own businesses… and I could relate to some of what Neil was saying about deeper issues that a consumer generally doesn’t completely think about. It’s great to look back and think about some of that kind of stuff from time to time to see if you can learn. Employees, supply chain (especially thru Covid), cash flow, inventory costs, material and operational costs, etc.
If I squint and listen to him out of focus, I could hear and agree that the back side of the business could put some business out of business. And I think it would be foolish for anyone to think the color tractor is forever protected from going out of business.
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But do I care? Yes and no. I feel smart companies will continue. Not always the best. Sometimes the worst. And we all hope the one we pick will be around in the end!
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I think he took a decent “first punch” on the topic. But I too disagree on some of his points.
I feel you set up a “knock out punch” in reply.
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It wouldn’t surprise me if Neil would like to either take back or rephrase some of his comments. Maybe not.
You put together a fantastic reaction video. But I have no insights on what Neil might do.
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I’m not go’in Anywhere.
I’m on Brock’s side of the fence.
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Looks like Louisville treated you well!
I’m all for everyone having a chance and for companies paying people to review and use their products. I would have a problem if those companies asked me to only say good things and not have an honest review of their product. If you can’t be truthful about the product and give an honest review then I personally couldn’t do it but I’m not a RUclipsr, yet! Nothing wrong with these companies giving folks products to try and get their name out there. I think it’s good business practice. If it fails, fine. If it works it works. I think there is truth to Neil’s video and truth to your video, Brock. That’s why I watch both channels. I bought a 1025R tractor and a few small attachments simply because of the dealer around here but if I had it to do over, I would probably go another route and get a cheaper tractor with more attachments for less money. That being said, I believe there are companies I wouldn’t buy simply because of the unknown at this point but that is subject to change.
Very thorough Brock, accurate and fair. I kept thinking I’d have something to add, but you kept covering every point I had 😂
Well, suppose it’s time to get back to “making noise!”
I’m gonna be as noisy as I can. Feels like otherwise no one would hear me.
I consider it bad business to speak negatively about your competitors. That is exactly what he did. He definitely took a jab at the RUclipsrs. He either lives in a bubble or is not very smart. There is a great deal of helpful information available on RUclips. It cracks me up when propogandists try to use a few numbers/percentages to make their point. Because the numbers are almost always inaccurate. I really appreciate your objectivity and your channel. Thanks for sharing.
Neil is definitely not the sharpest tool in the shed. I call him a drama queen.
Neil is right to predict that the sub compact market is going to shrink going forward, to many units were frontloaded at cheap interest rates and people retiring out to some acreage. He didnt mention the reputational damage caused by the supply chain shortages to the big dealers. This right to repair/youll own nothing is causing damage aswell.
Great video brock it's all about competition witch we need that's what makes sales
Competition is good for the consumer
I spent the last year shopping for a new tractor. John Deere and Kubota have priced themselves out of most folks buying from them. They keep raising prices so much and offer lower options and specs. If someone actually does their homework they will see that. Paint color is just that, a color of paint.
In the size Tractor I’ve been looking at you can save $15,000 by going with the “off brand”
That is a lot of money
$20K + in the excavator market!
You get less machine for a Deere 50G vs a SY50U SANY easily $20k+ more for the Deere or a Kubota.
@@pfeifferized - what other brands? I’d take a $20k coupon! LOL
Bobcat! I spent $10,000 less on my Bobcat tractor than my co-worker did on his JD! And mine has higher lift capacity!
I have a kubota b2601 several john deere 400 series 430 1025, gravely walk behinds an old massy Ferguson an a few ford's. I just like tractors. All of them.
Me too. I love the old tractors, but I also love the new tractors, and the little tractors, and the big tractors.
I like the green ones but the orange ones and the red ones and the blue ones are also nice
I think Neil has a great point. The 30% share divided by 12 manufacturers isn’t sustainable. The cost of existence is just to high for small volume brands to exist.
That sounds right, but also what is to say that the two main brands don’t lose their share?
Yeah… As a 20 year mechanic. I can assure you that future parts support SHOULD be a concern for anyone looking to hold onto a machine longer than a year or two.
Just because there is a bit of parts sharing between some brands doesn’t necessarily mean that the parent company has any interest in supporting the no longer sold versions of their machines. A perfect example of this is Ford!
Until 2011 Ford diesels were all supplied by International Truck/Navistar. It’s very well known and both sides being Ford and Navistar were very proud of the partnership. (Until later for obvious reasons) However, if you try to go to a Navistar dealer for parts for your Powerstroke engine that EVERYONE KNOWS and openly acknowledges is made by Navistar. You will be stonewalled… They 100% WILL NOT intentionally sell you parts for a Powerstroke Diesel Engine. You have to fool them into thinking that you have a Navistar variant like a VT365 (6.0L) or Maxxforce 7 (6.4L) or 90% of their dealers will simply say “we don’t sell ford parts, call your local ford dealer” and hang up.
He's clearly taking a swipe at Kioti, Kubota's biggest threat right now. Tractors will always have value, it would be wise to purchase a brand with good outlook for parts and service availability.
Safe and sound …. Colleen and I don’t have any rides planned anywhere anywhere near where you are for the coming year but maybe in 2025? Until then see you next year
Sounds like the attack on the other brands is the FUD (Fear, Uncertainty & Doubt) sales technique.
I think you missed what Neil was saying. It’s about infrastructure mare then quality or price. He was saying do your homework before you buy. You took it personally but what his point is make sure you or someone else can repair it 10 years down the road.
I took time to complement that Neil made those points.
I specifically said I agreed with him on both of the things you said.
Counterpoint I was making is that the companies we are talking about are in some cases bigger companies than Kubota. They’re just not bigger with compact tractors in the US market.
I wouldn’t be surprised if TYM is bigger than Kubota. The company that owns LS is bigger than Kabota. Solis is the smallest company and they are fifth in the world and tractor sales.
I also took it personally that there was an implication that people like myself were giving their credibility for sponsorships, but he is a beacon of truth.
Brock. Great job explaining this. Im in the market for a compact tractor. Some of the newer names scare me for the unknown of the future of their company. I was beating the trail looking at the 3 series John Deere's and was sold on them for a good bit. Then i started looking into the 20 series Kioti tractors Specifically the 2620's "because of the non exhaust particulate filter" and doing my own research before talking to a salesman. I was pleasantly surprised when i finally made it to a Kioti dealer. I was talking to him about John Deere's also and my thoughts. He did a great job not bashing any other manufacture and just stayed true to the Kioti specs and what they are capable of. Im more confused now on what to do. After researching the Kioti brand more they have some fantastic offers and it seems a bit cheaper. I watched you 400hr review video on the Ck2610 and it seems like a solid machine.
I think all the brands make a good Tractor. I like the idea of buying from a company that makes their own tractors.
kubota, kioti, Yanmar, LS, and TYM, all fit that description.
@RockhillfarmYT brock thanks for replying. I agree with that. Keep it up I enjoy watching your videos.
Kioti could have a real winner with that unit. Specs are crazy good and engine easy to work on. I've read a few horror stories about the rear end casting cracking or the fel overloading the front axle. Quality control seems to be the biggest complaint.
@ricksanchez7459 I'm really liking that machine. I was looking at the deere 3025e before but got turned off of it when I learned the transmission case is all cast aluminum on the hydrostatic model
@TheRustyGarage Only experience weve had with the e series was a 5055e and it went back for a/c they wouldnt cover under warranty, said pressure washer cut condensor but we use air to blow cooling packs out. It had something wrong with the clutch computer where it would lock down if you rode it to much, like loader work. It was light, even with loaded tires it needed a bale on the back to handle bales with the fel. Loader operation wasnt smooth, hard to drop smoothly. We were unimpressed with jd economy offering thats for sure. New holland workmaster has been waaaay nicer. That kioti can be tuned up after warranty expires Ive read. Ive seen it handle 4x5 pretty handily.
Agreed. If there were only 2 Tractor companies then we probably wouldn't be able to have what we have today. I've had Mahindra max24 and I have a kubota L3130. The kubota is great but it has a default and it's weight. It just doesn't have enough lead in it britches. That can be fixed but compared to other brands that are of physical size and hp it weights less. I can say I wouldn't lose any sleep at night buying something other than JD or Kubota.
I grew up with john deeres and farmalls. I bought a kubota 2 years ago. Knowing what i know now id buy a kioti
OK, I wasn't going to comment, but then we got to 16:30. Yeah, it's kind of a "me" thing. He's talking about people who are given a tractor by a manufacturer, and those people are promoting it like it's the next thing since sliced bread. You have a JD, you like it a lot, you tell us that, and that's fine. But you're not sponsored by JD. I believe he's talking about the shill type videos, the ones where the person has absolutely nothing bad to say about the product, and probably has a clause where they can't. I personally tend to agree with Neil in that as the market is diluted with more manufacturers (or resellers, if you prefer, since many of them don't actually manufacturer the tractors), that they're going to fail. Parts will be more difficult to find because there's no reason for the parent company to continue to support that machine as the reseller has disappeared. And if I were guessing, I'd say Neil is taking a shot at Summit specifically.
I don’t currently have a tractor deal but I’m friends with all of the guys who do, and I have deals on other equipment
Being honest and impartial is difficult but we all do our best at it
@@RockhillfarmYT I'm not saying all or even most are that way, but you have to believe there are some that aren't as impartial.
That was a fun video! I subscribe to Neil' "social media" channel which is how I started learning about tractors.
I have no issue with Neil. I like watching his videos.
I had an issue with a couple of specific things he said in one video.
@@RockhillfarmYT , Understood. I thought it funny he chose "Social Media" and noise. My Phraseology didn't come across! Keep up the great channel Brock!
I really like JD and Kubota but i dont think they will put anybody under with their current pricing , People are more fickle now days with the value of a dollar , I spent 3 months last fall looking for a compact tractor and i mean almost every brand and about went blind watching youtube vids lmao but true , In the end and i wasnt price shopping at all i ended up buying a RK25 made by TYM . The warranty is great and it already has about every option on it and fitted with the yanmar diesel , Very happy so far and zero issues 285 hours on it will see , The back tires are already loaded for weight as well !
I just want a loader attachment for a 2500, 3500, 4500, or 5500 truck. Don’t need a tractor or any or attachments. Maybe a box blade attachment for rear of truck that bolts to hitch
I agree with you wholeheartedly
I can still get parts for my 1954 Farmall 100.
As long as you keep your opinions honest I like watching a true comparison I would like to see more of the so called value tractors and to be honest I bought a badboy 1025h I don’t have a lot of land and it fits not to mention the price and I trust the yanmar engine which is in how many other tractors did I make a mistake buying it
It just depends upon your tolerance for risk. Competition is always good and should be encouraged. It may well be that there are indeed better tractors than JD and Kubota out there for less money. But that alone still does not negate the extra risk involved in buying one of those tractors. It still MIGHT be in your best interest to buy a higher-priced tractor that is not as good by some small measure because of the long-term value and parts availability. So there, imo, is not a "right" solution for everyone. I think Neil's point was well taken. I also see your point that some people might want a cheaper tractor. If they are willing to accept the risk, great. From what little I have seen of the TYM, Kioti, Mahindra, etc, I like them. But there is (for now) some risk involved in buying one of those if you plan to keep it long-term. I would love to see JD taken down a notch or two concerning their attempts to control the market and restrict repair to their own shops! But hey, I love the green. So what do I know? 🙂
Well done Brock
Interestingly (to me anyways) Bobcat makes their own loaders for their rebranded Kioti "Bobcat" tractors. And they lift less max weight than the Kioti loaders on the same tractor. So if Bobcat ends their partnership with Kioti at some point, you will / should be able to get the parts for the tractor at your local Kioti dealer, but not the loader, you'll have to see if Bobcat will keep their loader's parts available. I'm not sure if this would be an actual problem or not, that is beyond my non-expertise, just a "food-for-thought" kinda thing.
I haven't watched Neil's video that is referenced here (if I am saying that correctly...), not sure if I will. But I would like to see Kioti sponsor Brock with a DK6020SE cab tractor so he can have one of the good, other Orange, tractors! Then he can rave, or not, about it to all his followers.....
Have a good one!!👍
Kubota is feeling it they are making changes to the new models because Kioti and TYM there closest competitors are offering standard options that Kubota has traditionally considered add ons. They are being forced to upgrade the 01 series going forward to better compete.
Dude I couldn’t agree more ! I watched his video and while I definitely agree with a lot of what he said my first thought was these other brands are very likely to grow than shrink because of the high prices of everything nowadays especially tractors people are looking for the best bang for your buck. While I’m a strong Deere fan and kubota fan as well I just don’t see their sales continuing to stay strong because of pricing alone. And like you I’d rather support a company who will send out a product to a regular ordinary guy . Honestly I’d never consider a tym until I saw them on some of these channels and now I’d give them a serious look before buying another tractor.
I don't think Neil was talking about all youtubers who discuss tractors, just the ones who get free tractors or discounted tractors and then say nothing but good things about them.
Yeah, and I think the reason it bothers me is because I’m doing the same thing Neil is.
He takes tractor attachments from the same company as I do, and talks about them on his channel in the same way that I do.
But it felt like in this video he was separated himself from everyone else in that regard.
If you partner with a company, you have a natural inclination to favor them all the time. We all do it.
I stopped watching stoney ridge farmer because of this. He turned into a fan boy for companies that gave him free stuff. Plus he is a baby when people criticize him. Its childish. But he was in the air force. So I’m not surprised
@@82ndpara21 stoney ridge farm was the first farm channel I really got into, and I still watch him. He has some good stuff. But I get what you're saying. My grandmother and I were looking at compact tractors for her garden, and we had narrowed it down to Kubota of Massey Ferguson. I left a comment on one of his videos asking which he thought was better, and he just said go buy a TYM. That kinda rubbed me the wrong way.
Stony Ridge Farmer, Hamiltonville Farm started out as good youtube channels then they ended up in the sponsors back pocket, then the bias. Channels forget what they were built on. Boy do they whine & cry when they get negative comments!
Another home run video Brock! Spot on!
Orange and green have gotten a little big for their britches. Do I think either will go away? No I do not. Do I think they need to do some serious soul searching, and somehow do a price adjustment? Yes I do. Kioti, TYM, maybe even summit are beating up on them big time in the “home owner/homestead “ market
Great point counterpoint video!
I watch all your videos however I found this one to be petty. I had a Cub Cadet tractor that I scraped just because I couldn’t get parts I think Neal was just trying to point something out which I didn’t think about when I bought my Cub Cadet that I lost several thousand dollars on because of not being able to get parts.
I appreciate your opinion. I found Neil’s video to be petty.
As I said at the beginning. The good thing is that we can all have opinions and we don’t have to agree about everything.
I have a kubota a new holland, and a John Deere. I personally find the new holland the best product but Kubota the best dealer network and John Deere has green paint and depend on their reputation for product sales.
Cnh just announced they are going to focus more on compact tractor sales by expanding their offerings.
Sweet. Competition is good for the market