❗*Channel Announcement* _(Open for more)_ I've decided to rebrand the channel, _(yet again)_ this time for good. Don't worry, its still me, with the same content _(and the same monotone voice)_ Over the years my channel has had a few different names, usually just being my current handle at the time. But I've decided to shift over to having more of a recognizable "Identity" for the channel, instead of just whatever my username is at the time. Either way, *Welcome to the Jelly Jar* A channel for showcasing some History, Retrospectives and Reviews for Classic Games and Technology through the years and across the platforms.
I disagree. Large Companies that choose to shelve their game, keep it off storefronts, and or shut down servers should be forced to have an accessible version of the game available or release source code. If they don't want to maintain it, then let the community keep the game alive with mods, patches, or private servers. I don't think this will ever happen, but until then piracy of games that companies want to lock in their vaults or trickle them in through subscriptions is completely justified.
@@911Salvage So many of the things you enjoy right now wouldn't exist without Public Domain. There isn't much left in the way of originality anymore. Everything is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. A Reimagining of A Reimagining of A Reimagining. It seems to me you're against the very thing that allows you to have any sort of entertainment. Without Public domain NONE of the video games/movies/TV shows/etc we enjoy to this day would be legally allowed to be created. If you think of something, odds are is someone has already thought of it. Without Public Domain entertainment DIES. All we're saying is if a company/rights holder decides they don't want to do anything with or profit from a part of their IP any more, it should go into the Public Domain immediately so that people can still enjoy it instead of locking it in a vault to sit and gather unprofitable dust. If they aint selling it, they aint profiting from it so why does it matter if a ROM can be downloaded for free on some enthusiast website? Too many rights holders have gotten comfortable with acting like toddlers. They lose interest in a toy and then when some other kid comes around and wants to play with it, they throw a temper tantrum because that's ACTUALLY their favorite toy and they want it NOW. Apply that to what Nintendo and various other companies have been doing recently, and it's literally the same thing. Nintendo doesn't want to sell a game in any way shape or form. They could give a fuck less about it, but as soon as the fans decide "Since Nintendo isn't doing anything with it, let's enjoy it like this" then it's WAAAHHHH WAHHH MUH PROPERTY WAAAAHHHH. The fact that you think this kind of childish behavior is good says alot. Boot lick multibillion dolor corpos more. This stigma against abandonware was started by companies throwing toddler temper tantrums because they arent profiting off of something they REFUSE to make available in a way that brings money in, and is kept alive by sweaty losers on eBay, or that run scam sites like DKOldies that want you to be forced to pay them the price of 3 recently released AAA games for a lose and scratched copy of a PS1 game. We all know it, stop acting like it's NOT the case.
@@rashira9610 you're saying a bunch of stupid non-sense. What you're effectively saying is because there's lack of originality, intellectual property can be disresepcted. Damn, that is ridiculous.
It’s a good point to make, there are many issues with regional pricing in places like Brazil etc. where the full price for a game is much too high, resulting in piracy being much higher there.
I'm a pirate. I always bought the games I pirated. Just Not release price. I have a whole collection of burnt to Dual layer DVDs. I own a 360 modded with Xk3y and a JTAG 360. A modded WII. And at some point I'll own a jailbreak PS5. I started pirating on PC where I would download PC games and apply cracks to the .exe run file. I have always supported game developers. And will continue to do so. But I will always use piracy and modding to preserve my endeavours of gaming history.
Many times games become abandonware because of expired licenses and those are in the worst position. They simply can't be sold anymore. It ain't really a problem if the expired license consists of just some songs, but games like the older NFS for example are full of real brands everywhere. That's too many licenses for anyone to bother renewing, especially if they most likely won't sell as well as the first time. Then there are the games that are abandoned simply because they never got a digital release, in which case the owners are just too lazy, or simply don't consider them relevant enough to bother.
Companies should be FORCED to sell (for a reasonable price) and support their games, or lose the copyright on them. If a company no longer sells a game, nor supports it, I don't see anything morally wrong with pirating it. In fact, I'd like to see copyright law revamped such that copyrights need to be registered, rather than just magically coming into existence when something is created. That's the way it used to be before copyright became the world's new religion, and all the governments of the world bowed down to it. Beyond needing to register copyrights, they should only last for a short time before needing to be renewed each year. The cost for renewal should start at $1, and double every year. The cost would relatively quickly climb to the point where companies would literally not be able to keep everything they've published under copyright. It would force them to decide which of their games/movie/songs/whatever were still worth hanging onto, and which ones they should let go. As a component of this, companies should be required to submit DRM free copies of everything they publish to a third-party organization for release to the public when they inevitably let the copyrights lapse. Governments get more money, and the public gets more content added to the public domain. Companies would scream bloody murder, but their executives would just have to make do with earning a million less per year.
I bought a wii u as a preservation machine. If you mod it you have access to every generation. If companies don't wanna sell me old games I'll keep them myself. I used to be against it but modern gaming changed my mind.
Great video, abandonware might seem dumb to some people after all why would you want to preserve some fishing game or poorly made movie tie in game form the 2000's but somewhere out there someone who loved that game as a kid thought it was cool and in the future if they ever wanted to find that game for a nostalgia trip the internet archive or my abandonware is the only place you can find stuff like that, its not just a game its history and its peoples memory's
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it 😊 I think its important at the very least that these games are archived and catalogued to preserve history, but being able to go back and enjoy them for the first time in a decade or so is the most fun part.
Nightfire and Agent under fires for both ps2 and gamecube are 2 of my favorites I go back to often. like timesplitters. and original Quake. I found an adapter to use a DVD drive from an old laptop so I could play Unreal Tournament, but My Hands cant take mouse and keyboard controls thanks anymore so I can only play controller games.
are they re-releasing these old titles? No, well that is a publisher problem then. A lot of games have an existing market, but they don't re-release games that actually are in high demand. Then you have companies like Square-Enix constantly remaking games versus releasing the old versions, which is actually the act of censorship. At least Dragon Quest got a re-release on the Wii of some old Super Famicom remakes, getting closer to the desired 8-bit versions...still just remakes.
One of the most important maxims of copyright law is vigorous defence. If you let small non commercial piracy go, then your defence against large commercial piracy will be heavily impaired. This is part of why Nintendo is so aggressive, because their copyrights are tied into their trademarks and they are under constant threat from larger companies. The other part of a good chunk of abandonware is the licensing of materials in the game. Any racing game with real cars is subject to licensing from car manufacturers based on use of their expensive trademarks, any game with real world tracks has licensing from track owners, any sports game has licensing from the league and its players union, and any game with a licensed soundtrack has that to deal with.
I was JUST thinkin while scrolling through the Xbox store looking at all the older titles, some like Battlefield 3 and such, that are soon to be gone forever. There are some things I believe that deserve to be preserved forever, not slowly forgotten entirely over time.
Nothing is more frustrating than learning that a game is no longer available due to some behind the scenes shenanigans or carelessness, especially when multiple parties are involved. Like with the Marvel/Activision deal, which fell though in 2014, and as part of that agreement, almost all of the games developed at Activision under the Marvel license were permanently removed from storefronts. There's many more examples of this and it continues to plague the industry. Even when companies like Xbox try to bring back these games through Backwards Compatibility, they are always faced with copyright issues. In a lot of cases it makes sense, considering the scenario, but it's insane how many abandonedware titles are just sitting there waiting to be released by its publisher. More recently, we've seen 7th gen titles (e.g. Arkham Origins), getting closer to becoming abandoned the further away we get from their release date.
*Just a Few Corrections:* - NFS Underground was released in 2004 _not_ 2007, was a mistake when I was writing out the dates for the other games (oops) :P - (For clarification) The Internet Archive's DMCA exemption no longer needs to be renewed every 3 years, but can still be disputed in court at any point if a case is brought forward.
Why don't you look at No One Lives Forever? This company called Nightdive Studios is doing everything in their power bring back the series from the dead. We don't even know who owns it, be it WB (they own Monolith, the developers behind the series), 20th Century Fox (the former Fox Interactive), or Activision (the one who killed Sierra). But now that Phil Spencer owns Activision, and is interested in bringing back classics from the dead, he may be able to help them out. It's a spy shooter that's much like James Bond meets Austin Powers.
a good example of abdonware dune 2000 and emperor of dune. which are basically now completely unlikely to ever see a new release becusse of licence issues.
The discussion is very nuanced, even ignoring all the bootlicking(and I use this term in the case of people who don't do their research and just say things for the sake of it, aka bias and wilful ignorance). I just recently looked up where to get Aliens vs. Predators 2 for example. You literally can't get it *anywhere*. You CAN get the inferior Aliens vs Predators 1 however, on Steam. There's plenty of games out there that just fade away because they can't be archived and remembered. I had a dad who would "obtain" games for the PC all the time and there are countless games that I'm pretty sure I and no one else will never see again. It is unfathomable that anyone can defend the carelessness that companies have with the longevity and archival of their products, not even video games. No one is asking that intellectual property be ignored and that anyone can profit off of anything, or that everything be free(but let's be honest, money is not and should not be a factor here, these are games no one is even trying to sell anymore, let alone giving option to). It's just outlandish that you're simply denied the right to experience something just because the law supports the hoarding of defunct and useless properties. Imagine your favourite video game as abandonware, now imagine no one else ever gets to play that game ever again. Pretty sad and pointlessly so.
Eh, I will say Goldsrc here does look better than it did for 1.6, mainly in textures,meshes and proportions. Wouldn't be surprised if Gearbox brought over some of the changes they made to the engine for Condition Zero into Nightfire. But in terms of feel? The movement and gunplay feel very similar, except in Nightfire on PC the hit-reg and feedback are very poor lol
All software must be reccognized as property at law. There should always be an option to pay a specific price to own the right to play a game. If it is an online-only game and severs are shut down, source code or tools to create local servers must be made available. We wouldn't let companies get away with letting them build cars that don't function anymore if servers are shut down, why should games be much different.
if a game cannot be purchased legally anymore piracy does feel like the only way when it comes to PC versions and hunting down old copies of physical games not sure how long those games will last with all the wear and tear. Damn 3rd party licenses for video games tend to be first types of games to be abandonware when it expires ruins the fun of buying games.
Another good example of some good abandoned wear that I had a craving to play and had the opportunity pulled for me to be able to buy it and that was unreal tournament the day before my paycheck was supposed to come in add the games of my wishlist on steam and GOG I got my paycheck but then epic delisted them all because they want to save some server space for their precious little v-bucks fortnite metaverse crap versus the arena shooter I played as a kid on PS2 it was wanting the PC version because I have adult money now
if I find a way to play an old game publishers can't be asked to revive (aside from licencing bs), I don't see it as big of a crime the real crime is playing the pc version of nightfire over the console version
The worst victims, imo, are all the licensed classics like the older thps games, def jam vendetta/ffny, nfs, burnout 1-3, midnight club, ssx etc. Fuck greedy labels wanting perpetual royalties
all this lost games can be available in some cheap game subscribe service like *xbox game pass* in theory for example _just need make order what all game brands after some years after they not available legally put to this service_
@@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716 I stupidly bought that game. Now I only buy ubisoft games second hand. That way they Never ever get my money. And I don't buy any Microsoft published games at all. No physical media with the game on the disc. No money for you.
❗*Channel Announcement*
_(Open for more)_
I've decided to rebrand the channel, _(yet again)_ this time for good.
Don't worry, its still me, with the same content _(and the same monotone voice)_
Over the years my channel has had a few different names, usually just being my current handle at the time. But I've decided to shift over to having more of a recognizable "Identity" for the channel, instead of just whatever my username is at the time.
Either way,
*Welcome to the Jelly Jar*
A channel for showcasing some History, Retrospectives and Reviews for Classic Games and Technology through the years and across the platforms.
Even bad games deserve to be preserved, because there's always someone out there that wants to play them
Piko Interactive has you covered on that. Less desirable games getting re-released on platforms and the Evercade. Somebody at least is doing it.
I disagree. Large Companies that choose to shelve their game, keep it off storefronts, and or shut down servers should be forced to have an accessible version of the game available or release source code. If they don't want to maintain it, then let the community keep the game alive with mods, patches, or private servers. I don't think this will ever happen, but until then piracy of games that companies want to lock in their vaults or trickle them in through subscriptions is completely justified.
So basically you're supporting intellectual communism.
@@911Salvage Hell yeah and I’m tired of pretending that I don’t
@@911Salvage So many of the things you enjoy right now wouldn't exist without Public Domain.
There isn't much left in the way of originality anymore. Everything is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy. A Reimagining of A Reimagining of A Reimagining.
It seems to me you're against the very thing that allows you to have any sort of entertainment. Without Public domain NONE of the video games/movies/TV shows/etc we enjoy to this day would be legally allowed to be created. If you think of something, odds are is someone has already thought of it. Without Public Domain entertainment DIES.
All we're saying is if a company/rights holder decides they don't want to do anything with or profit from a part of their IP any more, it should go into the Public Domain immediately so that people can still enjoy it instead of locking it in a vault to sit and gather unprofitable dust. If they aint selling it, they aint profiting from it so why does it matter if a ROM can be downloaded for free on some enthusiast website?
Too many rights holders have gotten comfortable with acting like toddlers. They lose interest in a toy and then when some other kid comes around and wants to play with it, they throw a temper tantrum because that's ACTUALLY their favorite toy and they want it NOW. Apply that to what Nintendo and various other companies have been doing recently, and it's literally the same thing. Nintendo doesn't want to sell a game in any way shape or form. They could give a fuck less about it, but as soon as the fans decide "Since Nintendo isn't doing anything with it, let's enjoy it like this" then it's WAAAHHHH WAHHH MUH PROPERTY WAAAAHHHH.
The fact that you think this kind of childish behavior is good says alot. Boot lick multibillion dolor corpos more. This stigma against abandonware was started by companies throwing toddler temper tantrums because they arent profiting off of something they REFUSE to make available in a way that brings money in, and is kept alive by sweaty losers on eBay, or that run scam sites like DKOldies that want you to be forced to pay them the price of 3 recently released AAA games for a lose and scratched copy of a PS1 game. We all know it, stop acting like it's NOT the case.
@@rashira9610 you're saying a bunch of stupid non-sense. What you're effectively saying is because there's lack of originality, intellectual property can be disresepcted. Damn, that is ridiculous.
@@911Salvage How's those boots taste? These companies disrespect their own IP by refusing to sell it. Cope more.
This might be a hot take but i think gaming wouldn't be as popular as it is today without pirating.
It’s a good point to make, there are many issues with regional pricing in places like Brazil etc. where the full price for a game is much too high, resulting in piracy being much higher there.
Neat video. The no one lives forever series immediately comes to mind, which luckily has a community still keeping it available.
I'm a pirate. I always bought the games I pirated. Just Not release price. I have a whole collection of burnt to Dual layer DVDs. I own a 360 modded with Xk3y and a JTAG 360. A modded WII.
And at some point I'll own a jailbreak PS5.
I started pirating on PC where I would download PC games and apply cracks to the .exe run file.
I have always supported game developers. And will continue to do so. But I will always use piracy and modding to preserve my endeavours of gaming history.
@@xOriginalGamerOG76x 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻🤘🏻
fun fact free discounts also exits and free mods too such as swelter snowdrop escape and the entropy zero duology
Many times games become abandonware because of expired licenses and those are in the worst position. They simply can't be sold anymore. It ain't really a problem if the expired license consists of just some songs, but games like the older NFS for example are full of real brands everywhere. That's too many licenses for anyone to bother renewing, especially if they most likely won't sell as well as the first time.
Then there are the games that are abandoned simply because they never got a digital release, in which case the owners are just too lazy, or simply don't consider them relevant enough to bother.
Companies should be FORCED to sell (for a reasonable price) and support their games, or lose the copyright on them. If a company no longer sells a game, nor supports it, I don't see anything morally wrong with pirating it.
In fact, I'd like to see copyright law revamped such that copyrights need to be registered, rather than just magically coming into existence when something is created. That's the way it used to be before copyright became the world's new religion, and all the governments of the world bowed down to it. Beyond needing to register copyrights, they should only last for a short time before needing to be renewed each year. The cost for renewal should start at $1, and double every year. The cost would relatively quickly climb to the point where companies would literally not be able to keep everything they've published under copyright. It would force them to decide which of their games/movie/songs/whatever were still worth hanging onto, and which ones they should let go. As a component of this, companies should be required to submit DRM free copies of everything they publish to a third-party organization for release to the public when they inevitably let the copyrights lapse.
Governments get more money, and the public gets more content added to the public domain. Companies would scream bloody murder, but their executives would just have to make do with earning a million less per year.
Agent under fire and timesplitters 2 are gems I need to be preserved
I bought a wii u as a preservation machine. If you mod it you have access to every generation. If companies don't wanna sell me old games I'll keep them myself. I used to be against it but modern gaming changed my mind.
Great video, abandonware might seem dumb to some people after all why would you want to preserve some fishing game or poorly made movie tie in game form the 2000's but somewhere out there someone who loved that game as a kid thought it was cool and in the future if they ever wanted to find that game for a nostalgia trip the internet archive or my abandonware is the only place you can find stuff like that, its not just a game its history and its peoples memory's
Thanks, glad you enjoyed it 😊
I think its important at the very least that these games are archived and catalogued to preserve history, but being able to go back and enjoy them for the first time in a decade or so is the most fun part.
@bffman2004 whoever thinks abandon ware is dumb is a young dumb moron that's use to playing live service and online only single player games
Nightfire and Agent under fires for both ps2 and gamecube are 2 of my favorites I go back to often. like timesplitters. and original Quake. I found an adapter to use a DVD drive from an old laptop so I could play Unreal Tournament, but My Hands cant take mouse and keyboard controls thanks anymore so I can only play controller games.
are they re-releasing these old titles? No, well that is a publisher problem then. A lot of games have an existing market, but they don't re-release games that actually are in high demand. Then you have companies like Square-Enix constantly remaking games versus releasing the old versions, which is actually the act of censorship. At least Dragon Quest got a re-release on the Wii of some old Super Famicom remakes, getting closer to the desired 8-bit versions...still just remakes.
I love abandoned games man, something about it, they never made it big or are simply just forgotten, fell off it's prime and aged like milk
Something about just exploring all of those old games too, even if I had never heard of them before it gives me a nostalgic feeling.
@@Retro-Calico ohh yeah the nostalgic feeling, feels like home but never was 😂
One of the most important maxims of copyright law is vigorous defence. If you let small non commercial piracy go, then your defence against large commercial piracy will be heavily impaired. This is part of why Nintendo is so aggressive, because their copyrights are tied into their trademarks and they are under constant threat from larger companies.
The other part of a good chunk of abandonware is the licensing of materials in the game. Any racing game with real cars is subject to licensing from car manufacturers based on use of their expensive trademarks, any game with real world tracks has licensing from track owners, any sports game has licensing from the league and its players union, and any game with a licensed soundtrack has that to deal with.
I was JUST thinkin while scrolling through the Xbox store looking at all the older titles, some like Battlefield 3 and such, that are soon to be gone forever. There are some things I believe that deserve to be preserved forever, not slowly forgotten entirely over time.
Nothing is more frustrating than learning that a game is no longer available due to some behind the scenes shenanigans or carelessness, especially when multiple parties are involved. Like with the Marvel/Activision deal, which fell though in 2014, and as part of that agreement, almost all of the games developed at Activision under the Marvel license were permanently removed from storefronts.
There's many more examples of this and it continues to plague the industry. Even when companies like Xbox try to bring back these games through Backwards Compatibility, they are always faced with copyright issues. In a lot of cases it makes sense, considering the scenario, but it's insane how many abandonedware titles are just sitting there waiting to be released by its publisher. More recently, we've seen 7th gen titles (e.g. Arkham Origins), getting closer to becoming abandoned the further away we get from their release date.
For me games are the only kind of memories that you can experience many times in the exact same way as you did in the first time.
*Just a Few Corrections:*
- NFS Underground was released in 2004 _not_ 2007, was a mistake when I was writing out the dates for the other games (oops) :P
- (For clarification) The Internet Archive's DMCA exemption no longer needs to be renewed every 3 years, but can still be disputed in court at any point if a case is brought forward.
@@Retro-Calico it was actually released in 2003
Love the videos, keep it up! I'll be watching! :)
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it 😀
There is definitely more content on the way soon 👍
Why don't you look at No One Lives Forever? This company called Nightdive Studios is doing everything in their power bring back the series from the dead. We don't even know who owns it, be it WB (they own Monolith, the developers behind the series), 20th Century Fox (the former Fox Interactive), or Activision (the one who killed Sierra). But now that Phil Spencer owns Activision, and is interested in bringing back classics from the dead, he may be able to help them out. It's a spy shooter that's much like James Bond meets Austin Powers.
I’ve heard good things about it, but haven’t played the original or the remake myself.
Might have to take a look into it 👍
a good example of abdonware dune 2000 and emperor of dune. which are basically now completely unlikely to ever see a new release becusse of licence issues.
The discussion is very nuanced, even ignoring all the bootlicking(and I use this term in the case of people who don't do their research and just say things for the sake of it, aka bias and wilful ignorance). I just recently looked up where to get Aliens vs. Predators 2 for example. You literally can't get it *anywhere*. You CAN get the inferior Aliens vs Predators 1 however, on Steam. There's plenty of games out there that just fade away because they can't be archived and remembered. I had a dad who would "obtain" games for the PC all the time and there are countless games that I'm pretty sure I and no one else will never see again. It is unfathomable that anyone can defend the carelessness that companies have with the longevity and archival of their products, not even video games. No one is asking that intellectual property be ignored and that anyone can profit off of anything, or that everything be free(but let's be honest, money is not and should not be a factor here, these are games no one is even trying to sell anymore, let alone giving option to). It's just outlandish that you're simply denied the right to experience something just because the law supports the hoarding of defunct and useless properties. Imagine your favourite video game as abandonware, now imagine no one else ever gets to play that game ever again. Pretty sad and pointlessly so.
Save it at my bookmark.
How good does gldsource look in Night Fire though? I remember playing it as a teenager. Never rated it. Goldeneye was better.
Eh, I will say Goldsrc here does look better than it did for 1.6, mainly in textures,meshes and proportions. Wouldn't be surprised if Gearbox brought over some of the changes they made to the engine for Condition Zero into Nightfire.
But in terms of feel? The movement and gunplay feel very similar, except in Nightfire on PC the hit-reg and feedback are very poor lol
All software must be reccognized as property at law. There should always be an option to pay a specific price to own the right to play a game. If it is an online-only game and severs are shut down, source code or tools to create local servers must be made available. We wouldn't let companies get away with letting them build cars that don't function anymore if servers are shut down, why should games be much different.
Awesome video!
if a game cannot be purchased legally anymore piracy does feel like the only way when it comes to PC versions and hunting down old copies of physical games not sure how long those games will last with all the wear and tear.
Damn 3rd party licenses for video games tend to be first types of games to be abandonware when it expires ruins the fun of buying games.
Another good example of some good abandoned wear that I had a craving to play and had the opportunity pulled for me to be able to buy it and that was unreal tournament the day before my paycheck was supposed to come in add the games of my wishlist on steam and GOG I got my paycheck but then epic delisted them all because they want to save some server space for their precious little v-bucks fortnite metaverse crap versus the arena shooter I played as a kid on PS2 it was wanting the PC version because I have adult money now
if I find a way to play an old game publishers can't be asked to revive (aside from licencing bs), I don't see it as big of a crime
the real crime is playing the pc version of nightfire over the console version
I will admit that the PC version is pretty rough 😅
Did you know? A ton of old -paid mods- "payware" that aren't being sold anymore have online DRM. This cancer exists to this very day.
If there's no way to properly buy the game on a proper storefront, then people can't get mad when people go on abandonware sites.
Soooo Is this website safe to use ???
The worst victims, imo, are all the licensed classics like the older thps games, def jam vendetta/ffny, nfs, burnout 1-3, midnight club, ssx etc. Fuck greedy labels wanting perpetual royalties
all this lost games can be available in some cheap game subscribe service like *xbox game pass* in theory for example
_just need make order what all game brands after some years after they not available legally put to this service_
NFS Underground is NOT from 2007, it was released in 2003
Small editing error, sorry about that 👍
I still have underground 2 on GameCube from 2004.
Infinity Blade - I paid for that game 😡
Anyone wants to play the crew
@@gejamugamlatsoomanam7716 I stupidly bought that game. Now I only buy ubisoft games second hand. That way they Never ever get my money. And I don't buy any Microsoft published games at all. No physical media with the game on the disc. No money for you.
Fucking PREY baby