It didn't even work like that because the orange color made the stitches more difficult to see, so hitter couldn't pick up the ball's rotation and thus it made hitting the ball MORE difficult. Supposedly the real reason Finley suggested the change was he thought viewers would be able to see the ball better on television.
The worst part about the Seals was in 1970, they traded their 1st round pick in the 1971 draft to Montreal. The Seals had the worst record that season (no lottery in those days) so the first overall pick went to Montreal. The Habs would go on to pick The Flower, Guy LeFleur
Yeah, but that's less how 'The Seals suck" and more "Sam Pollock was the first GM in sports to realize that future draft picks had some value", and would happily send second-rate Canadiens or aging stars out to the expansion teams for those picks. Since the expansion teams were dumb and in that time, "second-tier Canadien" was better than most of their stars, the Seals and Kings took the bait every time."
@@thomasgreene3852 Sam Pollock tried to replicate that deal, when he saw a 13 year old Wayne Gretzky. He traded for the Colorado Rockies 1980 1st round pick. Pollock’s plan was foiled by the WHA’s allowing teenagers to be signed. The Habs messed up that draft, picking David Wickenheiser. They passed over Denis Savard, Paul Coffey, and Larry Murphy. Nevertheless, the Seals management was the perfect idiot for Pollock
@@sdeepj Of course. And even without as big a deal as Guy Lafleur, the whole late '70s run of four straight Cups by the Habs was built around Pollock learning that game. (Even then, just claiming the Seals were the perfect idiot is retrospect since they went belly-up and/or reformed 13 years later as the Sharks; The Kings ALSO fell for it every time Pollock made the offer, but the fact the Kings have succeeded makes that forgotten.)
@@sdeepj Shit, even mentioning Guy Lafleur is the perfect bookend for the story of the Seals, since after Lafleur's final retirement for good, his career ended as the final pick in the 1991 Sharks/North Stars expansion draft (after he already said he was retiring anyway, he was about to take a front office job with the Nordiques...but the Nordiques were so utterly terrible, and the rules said you have to pick SOMEONE, that Lafleur ended up picked by default. The Nords traded him for another player they had the rights to and would never play in the NHL, and the happy ending was there.)
@@thomasgreene3852 The Kings were on thin ice in the 1970’s, but they had Vachon and eventually Dionne. Stars who can establish the team, they serve as the face of the team.
@@sirstewartwallace3917 I thought he grew up in Brooklyn, but then grew up overnight, moved to Manhattan, and then shrunk and moved back to Brooklyn again.
My favorite story about the Seals is when they traded their 1st round pick to Montreal for a decent player to try and get better quick. They still sucked so the pick was 1st overall. Montreal used it to select Guy Lafleur who is now the franchise's all time leading scorer and helped them win 5 Championships.
The reason the Penguins and Flyers were in the West in those 68-69 standings you showed, and why the Seals were able to make the playoffs with a below .500 record was that all of the new NHL expansion teams were put in the same division (the West) to start, while the Original 6 remained as the Eastern Division. This ensured that an expansion team would make the Stanley Cup Final against an Original 6 team. Since the entire West Division was made up of expansion teams, they were a lot worse than the Eastern Division and the standings were really skewed towards the East, with all of the teams finishing above .500 the first couple of years while only 1 West Division team finished above .500 the first two years.
Well into the 90's multiple NHL teams in a single season made the playoffs with losing records. It wasn't a rare occurrence. The worst may have been the 1987-88 Maple Leafs who made the playoffs with 52 points (21 wins in a 80 game season).
@@danielgautreau161 Only three straight years but otherwise yeah, they never won a game, and the East Division final was effectively the Stanley Cup those years of expansion.
@@danielgautreau161 actually, they only made it for the first three years ( I’m a Blues fan) due to the Black Hawks being moved to the West in the fourth year and the playoff format being changed. The Blues were 0-12 in those three series but they were extremely competitive in their first one, being out scored 7-11, with two of those games going into OT. Glenn Hall was rightfully given the MVP award for the playoffs that year.
What isn't mentioned is that the San Jose Sharks came about as a de-merger between the North Stars and Barons. The final owners of the Barons as part of their deal with the NHL to bring an expansion team to the Bay Area sold their interest in the North Stars to another owner who wanted to bring a team to the Bay Area and got a number of North Stars players in the process. In a similar case with the new Winnipeg Jets, the Sharks are not considered a continuation of the Seals despite having traits to the previous Bay Area team.
The Montreal Canadiens persuaded the Seals to accept a player or two in return for the Seals' 1st-round draft pick. The Canadiens then made a couple of odd-looking trades that strengthened two other expansion teams to ensure the Seals would finish last. So the Canadiens got the very first pick, which was Guy Lafleur.
A couple of things about the Oakland Seals/Cleveland Barons. 1) The 1967 expansion came about in order for the NHL to get a TV contract with CBS. The network wanted the league to expand and that expansion had to include teams in Los Angeles and San Francisco/Oakland. At the same time there was a minor league called the Western League that was making moves that had put teams in Los Angeles (the Los Angeles Blades) and San Francisco. When the expansion happened a group headed by Jack Kent Cook got the Los Angeles franchise over the Blades ownership, but the ownership group for the Bay Area franchise was the owner of the WHL team. They were originally located in San Francisco’s Cow Palace as the San Francisco Seals, but the owners got into a lease dispute with he Cow Palace, and moved to Oakland. NO ONE in San Francisco would go to Oakland if they could possibly heals it, then or now. 2) The NHL knew that the situation with the Seals was chaotic even before they started playing. The ownership situation was so precarious that the NHL was seriously considering relocating the team from the Bay Area to Vancouver, but the owners of Maple Leafs and Canadiens didn’t want another team sharing the very lucrative Canadian TV contract. The League were eventually able to satisfy themselves that the Oakland ownership group was stable and they could go ahead. 3) The Cleveland Barons didn’t have to die. There actually was an ownership group that wanted to buy the Cleveland Barons. They were from Houston, and they had some experience with owning a hockey team; they owned the Houston Aeros of the World Hockey Association. The group was owned by Kenneth Schnitzer. He was aware that if there was an NHL-WHA merger, the three Canadian teams and Hartford would be added despite the fact that Houston had better attendance than Hartford. So Schnitzer shut down the Aeros the year before the merger, distributed the Aeros players to the other WHA teams and started lobbying to either get an NHL expansion team (unlikely) or buy the Barons. He made a good faith offer to the NHL, but such was the hatred of the WHA among some hardline owners, combined with the rapidly deteriorating situation in Atlanta which owners blamed on it being a southern city, that the NHL chose to “merge” the Barons with the Minnesota North Stars instead.
The WHA wasn't "making moves" to put teams in LA and SF; they were already well established. They were making moves to compete for the Stanley Cup by declaring themselves as a Major League with a little justification. And, Benjamin, they played in Daly City which is much better run than San Francisco. It's even in a different county.
My wife and I enjoyed the WHA as an Indianapolis Racer's fan, to the point we went to at Racer's Whalers playoff game on our wedding night, April 3, 1976. The Racer's demise along with the rest of the WHA was heartbreaking... though we did have the privilege to see a just-turned 17-year-old kid from Ontario score his first Big League professional Goal.. Wayne Gretzky. Even At 17, it was obvious he was going to be "The Great One."
Wait till you hear about the Arizona Coyotes and their likelihood of relocating. Coyotes owner had a lien put on the team for not paying property taxes.
It’s interesting that this wasn’t even the last time we got close to contraction. That honor goes (at least as far as I know) when MLB tried to contract the Expos and the Twins in the early 2000’s and were only stopped when the state of Minnesota won in court to keep the Twins in their lease
And the fact that the Twins suddenly started playing well in 2002, winning the division and reaching the ALCS. It's hard to contract a team that has started consistently winning the division...
I still am a Seals fan as I spent part of my youth trying to get my friends to go Seals games. The team wasn't that bad. They were entertaining. They could beat Boston, Montreal, New York fairly often. Meloche was a great goalie on the mediocre team. Vadnais was a stalwart defenseman other teams coveted. Croteau, Hicke, Redmond and Boldirev could score. The coaching , well, he is right about. There was a cast of characters, too. Gary Smith, the first goaltender, was drunk in net, Croteau took time out to chat with fans, Gary Simmons, a reserve goaltender was the Round Table Pizza king of Contra Costa County, Chris Worthy, who played in the WHA as well, was cringe worthy. When the PA announcer would state Worthy will replace Meloche in today's line up, the fans booed and some walked out. Finley had a pick that could have had Canadian Hall of Famer, Guy LaFleur in Seal Green, but was mesmerized by shiny trinkets, taking some veterans instead. Yes, a nude girl streaked the rink, yes, a sleepy seal was brought to center ice. The Oakland Coliseum was truly a place where you could See All That. I do miss them and a team with character and personality. Oh, yes, the did beat some great teams often, but would lose to the Canucks, Blues, Islanders , North Stars( with maskless Gump Worsley) consistently.
I saw my Penguins play the California Golden Seals in the early 70s. Their goalie, Gilles Meloche, stopped 52 of 57 shots in a 5-2 Seals' loss. I also saw the Cleveland Barons play here in 1977. Beat them 4-1. Ahhh the good ole days!
Officially, the franchise was merged into the North Stars, and that’s that. Technically speaking, the Sharks could be the reborn Seals franchise. The Gund brothers, who had bought the Seals, moved them to Cleveland. When the North Stars-Barons merger took place, the Gunds assumed ownership of the team, the best players from both squads and a dispersal draft took place to fetch the unwanted players. Fast forward to 1990 and by this time the Gunds had been trying to get the North Stars moved to Oakland, but the NHL wasn’t having it. They did however grant the Gunds an expansion franchise for the Bay Area in 1991, and at the conclusion of the North Stars Stanley Cup run in 1991, the North Stars and Sharks split players from the roster, then both teams took part in the expansion draft. So, as you can see, the old Seals/Barons were merged into the North Stars, and the Sharks were unmerged from the North Stars, hence the argument the Sharks and Seals are related.
The merger with Barons North Stars improved the team for a few years including a Stanley Cup final with Islanders but in the mid 80s they were back at the bottom of the NHL
My local teams are: Minnesota Twins - founding member of the American League as the Washington Senators in 1901 Minnesota Vikings - Expansion team of the NFL in 1961-2 Minnesota Timberwolves - Expansion team of the NBA in 1989-90 Minnesota Lynx - Expansion team of the WNBA in 1999 Minnesota Wild - Expansion team of the NHL in 1999-2000 Minnesota United FC - Expansion team of MLS in 2013 (formerly: Minneapolis Lakers - expansion team of the NBA in 1947; Minnesota North Stars - expansion team of the NHL in 1967)
The Twins have won two championships (the most recent in 1991), and the others none. And if WNBA championships mattered, Houston and Detroit would still have teams This truly is the worst market in sports
@@Big73Red As an Expos fan who knew they were immenently going to move, I'm still pissed off at MLB for killing their wild card chances in 2003 by not allowing any deadline trades or September call-ups. The Expos were right there with the Marlins and others in late August, but had their legs cut out from under them by these decisions as well as having to play all those games in San Juan.
@@diamonddog13 Expos fans have literally every right to be pissed off at the MLB. Allowing multiple cheap asses to run the team into the ground, constantly wanting to contract the team once they had to take control because of said cheap asses owners, 1994, the San Juan experiment and what you just mentioned. All that and everything I just listed is the kid gloves list version of the greatest rivalry in sports history.
one fact that i enjoy is that the Ownership (Gordon and George Gund III) of the Cleveland Barons gained majority ownership of the Minnesota North Stars as part of the merger, who would later go on to Purchase the Cavaliers of the NBA, and sell the North Stars to be the owners of the 1990's expansion Bay Area NHL team San Jose Sharks, again having teams in the two markets they previously left.
Charlie Finley was a character for sure. I spoke with Rollie Fingers about the orange baseballs a few months back and he was not a fan. Said they were too slippery and he couldn't get a grip on them
The proposal to have white skates caused a major rebellion amongst the players. Most of them were Canadians after all, and not exactly gender-role enlightened. In Canada white skates were worn by women. No hockey player was going to wear white skates no matter what their boss told them.
In regards to MLB connections, the Seals nickname for a West Coast team actually has older roots. The Pacific Coast League was essentially a minor league baseball organization that gave fans west of the Mississippi some great baseball teams. The Hollywood Stars, the original San Diego Padres, and.... The San Francisco Seals! Future Yankees Hall of Famer Joe Dimaggio played for the Seals and actually had a Minor League hitting streak with them over a decade before his more famous streak!
Seattle Rainiers, owned by a beer baron, and played in the Rainier Valley. They even had hyper-local talent in the case of Ford Hutchinson from Franklin High School, literally in Sick’s Stadiums backyard.
One thing that the video left out: among those few fans in the later years before moving to Cleveland was Crazy George. Also, there's a reason NHL players get paid far more now then they did then; in those days, the TV coverage was atrocious, and that's before both CBS and NBC decided, "Yeah, well, no, we're not going to show this any more." How many years was hockey relegated to regional sports networks (and that's assuming you lived in a SportsChannel area, which northern California was not) - and this includes the Stanley Cup Playoffs?
When I was a kid I went to about every Flames games during the mid 70s. I saw the Seals and the Barons. I also saw the Colorado Rockies, Hartford Whalers, Kansas City Scouts...BTW Gordie Howe played for the Whalers...He must have been 50 at the time
You do realize that one day some tech trillionaire will buy up all the NFL franchises at once and then just fold them all up out of spite due to all the football players and jocks in HS picking on him and shoving him into lockers. "That'll teach them."
I only knew about the Oakland seals and golden seals and Cleveland barons thanks to a LOLcow style video from urinating tree about the San Jose sharks. However I did not know about all of the crazy stuff that happened in the history of this short-lived old franchise that couldn't last in Oakland or Cleveland
As a Saint Louis Blues fan I actually cried when we won the Cup, I remember when they came into the league way back with the Red Baron and 3 Plager brothers and a guy who’s number I believe was the first number they retired and he died at 23 or 22 and I would always wear that number when I played if possible, btw his name was Bob Gassoff (D). So I can imagine how a Seals fan felt !!
I went to one of their matches back in the 60's at the Cow Palace. They were known as the San Francisco Seals. I had the program until recently. I think I purged of in a garage clean out recently
Many thought the Lightning would stop existing back in the 1992-1993 season playing at the Expo Hall with a very poor ownership group. If not for Phil Esposito they may not have made it.
Hockey and baseball are my favorite sports, which I understand is a minority viewpoint, so I truly appreciate the hockey content anytime I can get it. You are easily one of my favorite creators on the platform, and I love the sheer range and depth of topics you choose to cover, from the omni to the niche, I am here for all of it.
Hey Mike, check out the old ABA basketball league of the 60s-70s. A whole viable league with some legends went under, with just a few teams absorbed by the NBA.
I remember around 20 years ago there was a lot of talk about contraction in MLB with teams like Twins, Expos, Rays folding due to poor attendance and low revenues. Twins got a nice new stadium, expos a new city, and Rays are premier talent producer. Crazy
The Rays are still on occasion rumored to move although it's not contraction. Just in the past year or 2 there was talk about moving them for financial reasons. It came up as side note when ESPN announced the Athletics were eyeing a possible move to Las Vegas. I love discussing the topic of where the Rays could go and the pros and cons of that city.
@@birdman22b would love to hear your thoughts. With FL's latin carribean population it doesnt seem right that baseball fail there. San Antonio is biggest market wo a team then i think san jose and charlotte. But san jose would probably necessitate realignment while charlotte the braves would scream bloody murder. I think all the time about what expansion to 32 teams would look like (baseball and basketball) and how divisions and conferences can be redone to avoid so much travel but have balanced scheduling
The Seals always had ownership problems, and they didn't play in San Francisco. They played in Oakland. Nobody from San Francisco goes to Oakland. In 1976, the minority owners, the Gund brothers, originally from Cleveland, convinced owner Mel Swig to move to the Richfield Coliseum, in the Cleveland market, to bring the NHL to Northeast Ohio. Now, I grew up in Northeast Ohio. Richfield is a rural area midway between Cleveland and Akron. Cleveland has hockey history. Nobody in the Akron-Canton area knows hockey exists. What's more, it was a nightmare to get to Richfield from Cleveland's West Side suburbs. The Barons nearly went broke during the 1976-77 season. Attendance was bad, lower than the 1975-76 WHA Crusaders, who had better colors, a better logo and a better nickname. Marketing was nonexistent. The Barons were on WJW radio, with a weak night time signal. There was no local TV at all. One other factor in the disaster was that the winter of 1976-77 (and the winter that followed it) were the two worst winters in the past 70+ years. 50 below zero temperatures and heavy snowfalls contributed to bad attendance. I was in 7th grade in 1976-77 and we missed massive amounts of school. The Gund brothers bought out Swig in 1977 and set about improving marketing. The Barons provided 25 free tickets to a game against the Rangers to my school and I got to go. Another bad winter and poor attendance ( there was a coal miners strike, which led to limited electricity availability in another bad winter) made the Gunds throw in the towel. The Barons DID NOT fold. They merged with the Minnesota North Stars, who.also had a terrible 1977-78 season and bad attendance. Three seasons later, the North Stars played for the Stanley Cup. They lost, but they made it there. The Seals/Barons were not without talent. Dennis Mark, Al McAdam, Charlie Simmer, Bob Stewart, Gilles Meloche - all had distinguished NHL careers. There were a few more, but I don't remember all of them now. In 1985 the Gund brothers bought the NBA Cleveland Cavaliers from an idiot owner named Ted Stepien and rebuilt the franchise. In 1990 or so, the Gunds were tired of poor attendance in the Met Sports Center in Bloomington, MN and made noises about moving the North Stars to the Bay Area. Eventually, Norm Green bought the North Stars (I think a Howard Baldwin group may have owned the North Stars after the Gunds) and the Gunds were awarded the NHL's 22nd team in San Jose. The Sharks' expansion draft consisted of an equal number of selections from the North Stars and from the rest of the NHL. In this way the Sharks have a connection to the old Seals. In 1993 Norm Green moved the North Stars to Dallas. The NHL did return to Minnesota and Ohio, with the Wild and the Columbus Blue Jackets......which is as close as the NHL will come to Cleveland (the Pittsburgh Penguins are closer to Cleveland but in a different market). The truly last franchise in the big four sports leagues to go out of business completely was the original Baltimore Bullets, who folded, according to Google, on November 27, 1954. The last NFL team to go out of business completely was the original Baltimore Colts, who folded after the 1950 season. Note: The NFL states that the last team to fold was the 1952 Dallas Texans, who were taken over by the NFL and finished their season in Hershey, Pennsylvania. The NFL arranged for Baltimore to receive another team. Carroll Rosenbloom was recruited to be the owner and the Colts were the successor to the Texans - the same players, uniforms, equipment, etc....with the addition of the horseshoes on the helmets. The last baseball teams to fold were in the 19th century. So, there you have it. The NHL has always had at least one owner who causes problems, and often more than that, but....the Seals/Barons didn't fold. Just as when two companies merge, and only one survives, it does not mean that the non surviving company folded.
When it looked like the San Fransisco Giants were going to move to Tampa Bay, the team was saved by local business men buying the team. This included Peter McGowan and even Charles Schwab. But a few years ago MLB became concerned about the 32 owners of the Giants and made the Giants list who was actually the principle owner of the team and the guy in charge. That I think is Charles Johnson who owns 25% of the team.
As a Leafs fan since the days of Sittler, McDonald, Salming, Palmateer, etc. it makes me sad to think that every 1967 expansion team except the Seals has made the Finals and the Leafs haven't managed to make it past the Conference Finals since it was a six team league. Mind you '93 may have ended up different if it weren't for Fraser.
Charles O Finley also owned the Memphis Tams of the aba. He used to invite players to lunch to renegotiate contracts and would then proceed to have them up to his office where they heated up campbells soup on a hot plate.
Back in the ABA, the Dallas Chaparrals played one season as the Texas Chaparrals and played games in Dallas, Fort Worth, and Lubbock. They would later relocate and become the San Antonio Spurs.
Will you do a video about the near-contraction of the Twins and Expos before the Expos moved? The folding of a top 4 team seems strange, but it almost happened in MLB much, much more recently.
Well that’s interesting… technically three of my four teams are expansion teams. New York Yankees - Were a member of the American League as the original Baltimore Orioles in 1901. The National League was the premier league from 1876 to 1901 and the then Western League merged with the National League to become the American League and together became Major League Baseball. Any team founded after the 1876 establishment of the National League is an expansion team. New York Rangers - Although they are a part of the “Original Six” their first season was in 1926. Almost 10 years after the NHLs first season. New York Jets - Though they are a founding member of the AFL as the “Titans of New York” their story pretty much mirrors the Yankees. The NFL was the premier league, lessor leagues popped up including the AFL, the AFL eventually merged with the NFL. New York Knicks - I’m not really a basketgame fan but Wikipedia tells me that the Knicks existed at the NBAs founding so they are not an expansion team.
Last teams to go defunct in the other three existing U.S.-based major league sports leagues: NFL: Dallas Texans (1952) - only lasted the one season, 1952. NBA: Baltimore Bullets (1954) - only defunct NBA franchise to have won an NBA title (1947-48). MLB: Louisville Colonels, Baltimore Orioles, Cleveland Spiders, Washington Senators (1899) - all four went belly up when the NL contracted from 12 to 8 teams for the 1900 season. Note 1: The Dallas Texans, Baltimore Bullets, Baltimore Orioles, and Washington Senators listed here have no connection with the professional sports franchises that later carried the same name. Note 2: Major sports leagues that folded or had teams merged into one of the still existent major leagues had a number of teams that went defunct simultaneously. This would include the Union Association (baseball, 1884), the Players' League (baseball, 1890), the American Association (baseball, 1891), the Federal League (baseball, 1915), the All-America Football Conference (1950), Negro League Baseball (1951), the World Football League (1975), the American Basketball Association (1976), the World Hockey Association (1979), and the United States Football League (1986).
Growing up in the Bay Area in the 1970's I went to a few Seals games. I just figured no one really cared about them because, ice skating, let alone hockey was not a thing in the Bay Area where it didn't snow or rarely get cold enough to have any ice.
Minnesota didn't really get to keep their history. We lost it when the team left for Dallas which sucks cause the North Star name, logo and colors were way better than the Minnesota Man Bear Pigs.
I had never heard of this team. I mean it’s been decades ago but I still feel bad for the players. I wonder what the locker room was like? Did they ever half jokingly have some beers together where they came up with scenarios to get rid of their I-have-to-score-a-goal Coach? Did they go out to introductions surprised to hear their team name? Did the teams that played them make jokes about them or was the team so awful, the other teams actually felt bad for them? So many questions. Thanks for the video.
Even crazier is the Ottawa Rough Riders of Canadian football, the oldest professional sports club in North America, which started in 1876 and folded in 1996.
I learned things on the Seals I did not remember as they were part of the 1967-1968 expansion from the original 6 to 12 teams. I may be wrong but I think the expansion teams may have ended up all in their own division as a way of compromise with some of the owners of the original 6 teams being leary of the expansion and the effect on their rivalries. Being a Blues fan the 1967-1968 season turned in to something special. Their coach for most of the season was Scotty Bowman. It was too bad the Blues let go their great coach because I think her a few years later wanted total control of the team. As history showed the Blues would have done well having Scotty Bowman in total control of the team. Scotty Bowman brought old vets to the team like Doug Harvey and Dickie Moore. That first season they played the finals versus Montreal losing each game by a goal with two games going to overtime. Goalie Glenn Hall though was the big reason for the games being so close. Placing a team in the Bay area was not a bad idea though as the San Jose Sharks have proven. Thanks for placing this on RUclips.
Tom Hanks also worked at the Oakland Arena, where the Seals played. My Mom went to almost every game because they gave away free tickets to the ladies who did Roller Derby, as the Finneys owned both of the local roller derby leagues.
Tom Hanks went to Skyline HS in Oakland with Roy Sommer who played in the NHL with Edmonton. Sommer coached my sons HS line mate with the Worcester Sharks in the NHL.
There were rumours the Seals were going to be sold to a group from Buffalo or a group from Vancouver......The NHL had a deal with the network for two teams in California so both were nixed. Two years later the Sabres and Canucks were born.
I saw the seals when they were known as oakland and golden seals. I bought a few game programs on ebay and 20+ yrs. ago, I bought the topps and o-pee-chee seal cards.
In 2001, MLB came close to shutting down 2 teams (the Minnesota Twins and the Montreal Expos) but then there was threat of a severe lawsuit so the two remained
In a way, you could make the argument that the Seals sort of live on...as the San Jose Sharks. The Gunds - Gordon and George - owned the Seals when they moved to Cleveland and actually bought the North Stars as part of the merger between the Barons and the North Stars. Throughout the '80s they agitated to move the Stars to the Bay Area, and the NHL weren't wild about ditching the Minnesota market. So a compromise was struck: the Gunds would sell Minnesota, and in exchange, get an expansion franchise to place in the Bay. But as part of the deal, they got a chunk of the North Stars roster, and the North Stars and Sharks then both participated in the Expansion Draft to fill things out. The effect was a "de-merging" of the Barons/Seals from the North Stars, so the Sharks are *kind of* a continuation of the Seals. The two teams just kind of operated as a joint venture for a while. Of course, this isn't how it's reflected on in stats, and the Sharks don't actually retain the Seal's statistical history (though, to be fair, who would really want to), but it's an interesting quirk that gives the Sharks a nice link back to the 1967 expansion. Of course, with all this in mind, the Seals/Barons/Sharks are still the only 1967 Expansion Club to never win the Stanley Cup. Though they have at least made the Finals.
In case anyone's interested in the last time a team folded in the big 4. NFL Dallas Texans 1952 NBA Baltimore Bullets 1947-1954 NL Washington Senators 1891-1899
I have a feeling the Sharks paying tribute to the Seals is also because the Gund Brothers were originally part of the final Seals/Barons ownership group, took over the North Stars in '78, then got the Sharks in '91 after an attempt to move the North Stars to the Bay Area was vetoed by the league. (Gordon, who was primarily involved in running the Cavaliers from 1983 until 2005, divested his portion of the Sharks in 2002; George III, the face of the hockey operations until 2002, retained a share in the expanded ownership group from that date until his death in 2013.)
You never heard of the WHA Denver Spurs, it was even more weird season, it was like the twilight zone. These guys wanted an NHL franchise, but were rebuffed, so they joined the WHA. The season started off shaky, with problems getting an agreement with the arena, so after only playing a small amount of games there they got thrown out. The owners abandoned the team and the league took over, but it did not stop there. They were supposed to play a home game against the Cincinnati Stingers, but ended up playing in Cincinnati instead, with the players not knowing where they'd end up. The game went as scheduled, but oddly enough, the Canadian anthem was played as well, odd since it was 2 America teams playing against each other. They landed in Ottawa, with the league trying to find an owner in the nation's capital. They played their first game in Ottawa, wearing the Spurs jerseys. Nobody wanted to buy it, so the league shut it down and the players ended up wherever they ended up.
Where he says alot of sports teams have jokes that write themselves and then there are the Seals. While showing clips of an Browns and Lions game definitely hammers home the point.
Tiny Tim and the guy who founded the Hells Angels were big Seals fan. The Hells Angels used to got to the games all the time. Gilles Meloche even said one of the Hells Angels told him if he ever had any problems with anyone to tell the Angels and they would deal with it.
The key point in this saga is that in the '70s, hockey was just barely considered a "major sport" in America. Prior to the '67 expansion, hockey was almost exclusively a Canadian sport. If you consider the Red Wings to represent Detroit-Windsor, the three Canadian teams in the Original Six had won all except one of the Stanley Cups awarded since World War II. Then throw in the fact that in the early expansions (especially '67), the new teams were just given the dregs, the players that the existing teams essentially didn't want. Under the circumstances, it's actually somewhat miraculous that any of the six teams managed to survive.
The golden seals sort of exist still to this day. They contracted and formed with the Minnesota north stars who then eventually moved to become the dallas stars.
In 1970, California sent their 1st round pick in 1971 along with Francois Lacombe AND cash for Montreal’s 1970 1st round pick and Ernie Hicke. Montreal’s pick in 1970 was 10th and California used that pick to select Chris Oddleifson. He never played for them and Ernie Hicke only played 2 seasons for them. Montreal made a trade with LA to make them better and ensure California would finish last, which they did. Montreal would use the 1st overall pick to select Hall of Famer, and arguably the best Canadien ever, Guy Lafleur.
technically the north stars split in 1992 into the dallas stars and the san jose sharks because the thinking was minesota was two franchise so if the owner was to move the team, they had to put a team back in the bay area (i'm not the best to explain but it's insane since the golden seal so ...)
This video is factually incorrect. The Seals moved to Cleveland and became the Barons for two seasons. The Barons then merged with the North Stars. They technically unmerged when the Sharks came into existence. The Gunds owned the Seals/Barons, the merger with the North Stars happened because the North Stars owner couldn't afford to own an NHL team anymore. So the North Stars/Barons took the best players of both teams and put forth the best roster they could. Gordon Gund then tried to move the North Stars back to the bay area but was blocked by the NHL from doing so, they did allow Gund to sell the North Stars and granted him the ownership of the San Jose Sharks. There was then a dispersal draft from the North Stars to the Sharks, thus technically unmerging, the Sharks took 14 skaters and 2 goalies from the North Star players before the expansion draft. After this the North Stars and Sharks participated in an expansion draft to fill out each teams roster. Thus, technically, the Sharks are the successor to the Seals/Barons.
The birth of the Sharks also somewhat mimics the death of the Seals in reverse. The North Stars, who "merged" with the Seals, contracted and simultaneously got a new expansion team, along with San Jose, and both teams inherited some players from the original North Stars while also participating in an expansion draft with the rest of the league to fill out their rosters. So, in a sense the Sharks are the inheritors of the Seals legacy for more reasons than just being in the bay area.
Cleveland Barons were originally an AHL team that disappeared a couple years before the Seals moved to Cleveland and they became an NHL Cleveland Barons. Then in 2001 Cleveland's revived AHL team renamed to the Barons again, before dying in 2006, and being revived a few years later as the Lake Erie Monsters. The Monsters actually went on to win the Calder Cup however, then were renamed Cleveland Monsters. So at least the AHL side of the Barons has had better history than the NHL iteration lol
And then after merging with the north stars, the owner had an affair with his secretary and his wife said she would leave unless he moved to a warmer city. The state of hockey had no hockey team for a long time
I wouldn't call 8 seasons a long time. Its definitely sucks they lost their team, but compared to other teams who had to wait for a team to come back, Minnesota is definitely on the shorter side.
The reason the NHL always lags. The league runners are fools. Even today - Florida has two teams, Arizona has a team. WISCONSIN DOESN’T. That’s the NHL for you
And in 1995 The owner of the North Stars retired from the team or sometime around then. It was 4 years before Minnesota had a team with a person's Attempt to buy out the Jets with no luck getting blocked by the NHL only in expansion getting a team in 1997 on the premise these teams have until 2000 to get ready, well the old North Stars arena the Xcel Energy Center was there but just needed redo on the place since it needed a few upgrades since 1993 when the Center needed some upgrades anyhow. Not Sure but I thought the Name Target got added to the Ecel Engery center when The Timberwolves got a new sponsor name to help with more upgrades to the place?
Technically the Minnesota North Stars that merged also split off a decade later when Gunds wanted to move back to California in San Jose. Gunds is the owner of the San Jose Sharks still so I like to think that the Golden Seals just remained dormant inside the North Stars for just over a decade
"A team in one of the big leagues will never have to straight-up fold again." *shows the Bengals* Woah woah woah, let's not get ahead of ourselves here...
NHL is by a long shot the most unstable of the big 4 pro sports leagues, there are actually quite a few NHL teams that are on the brink of bankruptcy every year and defiantly the league that would have the highest chance of a team strait up folding out of existence in the future.
So I agree with the premise that the seals/barons are nonexistent any longer and the sharks are a completely new franchise. But on paper they try to maintain a link. Gund, an owner of the seals became part owner of the north stars when they “merged”. When the north stars moved to Dallas and became just the “stars” (I was hoping for “lone stars”) they also partitioned out Gund’s ownership fraction and he turned that fraction into the Sharks, even taking several minn players with him as part of the deal. Essentially they called it an “undoing” of the previous “merger”. So on paper they never went away, not the way franchises of the pre-WW2 era completely disappeared. But that’s all just on paper. Just like the Ravens of 1996 are REALLY the relocated browns. And the current browns franchise only has a connection to the old one ON PAPER. Sure they got to keep their banners and record books, but that just serves to show how badly the new franchise is compared to the old one. (Which is kinda the opposite of the sharks, who are significantly more successful than the seals ever were, even in their first few years of horrible play)
Wayne Gretzky was playing pro hockey when this team existed. Their folding made room for the Oilers to keep existing during the WHA/NHL merger. So he wasn't in their league when they existed, but it was close.
Off topic, but considering all the amazing Mets stories this channel has, I'm surprised there hasn't been an Oliver Perez story here. He's had a lot of moments with the Mets (mostly frustrating moments, but nonetheless), and I want to hear some stories from a Mets fan perspective. Is that going to be on the bucket list?
Seals had a goalie who would regularly come way out of his net, even trying to carry the puck into the offensive zone himself. Rule 27.7 “Participating in the Play Over the Center Red Line” exists because of the Seals. I’m sorry I can’t find the source for this but I remember reading it in a story about the expansion years.
In 1990 the Minnesota Cleveland merger was undone and the San Jose Sharks were born. Although San Jose was considered to be an “expansion team“ with no reference to their prior history.
![Blox Fruits Dragon Rework Update [Full Stream]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/EqDAp8udhm0/mqdefault.jpg)
Orange baseballs improve batting average
Genuinely I'd be ok with high vis balls if it helped balls in play go up
It didn't even work like that because the orange color made the stitches more difficult to see, so hitter couldn't pick up the ball's rotation and thus it made hitting the ball MORE difficult. Supposedly the real reason Finley suggested the change was he thought viewers would be able to see the ball better on television.
make baseball 7 inning then i will watch orange baseballs would be a bonus
Keep in mind this was an era when pitching dominated the league. It was so dominant they had to lower the mound.
@@JBTriple8 do you watch football?
The worst part about the Seals was in 1970, they traded their 1st round pick in the 1971 draft to Montreal. The Seals had the worst record that season (no lottery in those days) so the first overall pick went to Montreal. The Habs would go on to pick The Flower, Guy LeFleur
Yeah, but that's less how 'The Seals suck" and more "Sam Pollock was the first GM in sports to realize that future draft picks had some value", and would happily send second-rate Canadiens or aging stars out to the expansion teams for those picks. Since the expansion teams were dumb and in that time, "second-tier Canadien" was better than most of their stars, the Seals and Kings took the bait every time."
@@thomasgreene3852 Sam Pollock tried to replicate that deal, when he saw a 13 year old Wayne Gretzky. He traded for the Colorado Rockies 1980 1st round pick. Pollock’s plan was foiled by the WHA’s allowing teenagers to be signed. The Habs messed up that draft, picking David Wickenheiser. They passed over Denis Savard, Paul Coffey, and Larry Murphy.
Nevertheless, the Seals management was the perfect idiot for Pollock
@@sdeepj Of course. And even without as big a deal as Guy Lafleur, the whole late '70s run of four straight Cups by the Habs was built around Pollock learning that game. (Even then, just claiming the Seals were the perfect idiot is retrospect since they went belly-up and/or reformed 13 years later as the Sharks; The Kings ALSO fell for it every time Pollock made the offer, but the fact the Kings have succeeded makes that forgotten.)
@@sdeepj Shit, even mentioning Guy Lafleur is the perfect bookend for the story of the Seals, since after Lafleur's final retirement for good, his career ended as the final pick in the 1991 Sharks/North Stars expansion draft (after he already said he was retiring anyway, he was about to take a front office job with the Nordiques...but the Nordiques were so utterly terrible, and the rules said you have to pick SOMEONE, that Lafleur ended up picked by default.
The Nords traded him for another player they had the rights to and would never play in the NHL, and the happy ending was there.)
@@thomasgreene3852 The Kings were on thin ice in the 1970’s, but they had Vachon and eventually Dionne. Stars who can establish the team, they serve as the face of the team.
Tom Hanks being a Seals fan is one thing I learned today, so thanks for that
*T.Hanks for that 😉
Hanks grew up in the Oakland area and actually worked at the Oakland Coliseum while in high school.
@@StarkRavingSports T.hanks, I hate it
@@sirstewartwallace3917 I thought he grew up in Brooklyn, but then grew up overnight, moved to Manhattan, and then shrunk and moved back to Brooklyn again.
did you know that Hank's like kid touching? Something else you learned
My favorite story about the Seals is when they traded their 1st round pick to Montreal for a decent player to try and get better quick. They still sucked so the pick was 1st overall. Montreal used it to select Guy Lafleur who is now the franchise's all time leading scorer and helped them win 5 Championships.
This wasn't even the first time the Seals traded their first rounder to Montreal. They did this multiple times
Montreal actually made a trade with LA to make LA better and ensure that California would finish last just so they could select Guy
@@noahcaplan7681 warhammer not checkers
The reason the Penguins and Flyers were in the West in those 68-69 standings you showed, and why the Seals were able to make the playoffs with a below .500 record was that all of the new NHL expansion teams were put in the same division (the West) to start, while the Original 6 remained as the Eastern Division. This ensured that an expansion team would make the Stanley Cup Final against an Original 6 team. Since the entire West Division was made up of expansion teams, they were a lot worse than the Eastern Division and the standings were really skewed towards the East, with all of the teams finishing above .500 the first couple of years while only 1 West Division team finished above .500 the first two years.
Well into the 90's multiple NHL teams in a single season made the playoffs with losing records. It wasn't a rare occurrence. The worst may have been the 1987-88 Maple Leafs who made the playoffs with 52 points (21 wins in a 80 game season).
In the 1979-80 season, the first season after the WHL merged with NHL, 16 out of 21 teams made the postseason lol
And that is how the St. Louis Blues were in the Final for 4 straight years and went 0-16 in those 4 series.
@@danielgautreau161 Only three straight years but otherwise yeah, they never won a game, and the East Division final was effectively the Stanley Cup those years of expansion.
@@danielgautreau161 actually, they only made it for the first three years ( I’m a Blues fan) due to the Black Hawks being moved to the West in the fourth year and the playoff format being changed. The Blues were 0-12 in those three series but they were extremely competitive in their first one, being out scored 7-11, with two of those games going into OT. Glenn Hall was rightfully given the MVP award for the playoffs that year.
What isn't mentioned is that the San Jose Sharks came about as a de-merger between the North Stars and Barons. The final owners of the Barons as part of their deal with the NHL to bring an expansion team to the Bay Area sold their interest in the North Stars to another owner who wanted to bring a team to the Bay Area and got a number of North Stars players in the process. In a similar case with the new Winnipeg Jets, the Sharks are not considered a continuation of the Seals despite having traits to the previous Bay Area team.
This..... Go Sharks!
I remember this was why San Jose Sharks played there very first game in Cleveland, well Richfield, I was there!!!!
@@rustyshobbies8430 thats sick!!
The Montreal Canadiens persuaded the Seals to accept a player or two in return for the Seals' 1st-round draft pick. The Canadiens then made a couple of odd-looking trades that strengthened two other expansion teams to ensure the Seals would finish last. So the Canadiens got the very first pick, which was Guy Lafleur.
The new Jets are a relocation. A better example would be the two wholly separate Ottawa Senator franchises.
A couple of things about the Oakland Seals/Cleveland Barons.
1) The 1967 expansion came about in order for the NHL to get a TV contract with CBS. The network wanted the league to expand and that expansion had to include teams in Los Angeles and San Francisco/Oakland. At the same time there was a minor league called the Western League that was making moves that had put teams in Los Angeles (the Los Angeles Blades) and San Francisco. When the expansion happened a group headed by Jack Kent Cook got the Los Angeles franchise over the Blades ownership, but the ownership group for the Bay Area franchise was the owner of the WHL team. They were originally located in San Francisco’s Cow Palace as the San Francisco Seals, but the owners got into a lease dispute with he Cow Palace, and moved to Oakland. NO ONE in San Francisco would go to Oakland if they could possibly heals it, then or now.
2) The NHL knew that the situation with the Seals was chaotic even before they started playing. The ownership situation was so precarious that the NHL was seriously considering relocating the team from the Bay Area to Vancouver, but the owners of Maple Leafs and Canadiens didn’t want another team sharing the very lucrative Canadian TV contract. The League were eventually able to satisfy themselves that the Oakland ownership group was stable and they could go ahead.
3) The Cleveland Barons didn’t have to die. There actually was an ownership group that wanted to buy the Cleveland Barons. They were from Houston, and they had some experience with owning a hockey team; they owned the Houston Aeros of the World Hockey Association. The group was owned by Kenneth Schnitzer. He was aware that if there was an NHL-WHA merger, the three Canadian teams and Hartford would be added despite the fact that Houston had better attendance than Hartford. So Schnitzer shut down the Aeros the year before the merger, distributed the Aeros players to the other WHA teams and started lobbying to either get an NHL expansion team (unlikely) or buy the Barons. He made a good faith offer to the NHL, but such was the hatred of the WHA among some hardline owners, combined with the rapidly deteriorating situation in Atlanta which owners blamed on it being a southern city, that the NHL chose to “merge” the Barons with the Minnesota North Stars instead.
At last, someone has it right.
What's ironic about that, is today, NO ONE from anywhere would step foot in San Francisco!
The WHA wasn't "making moves" to put teams in LA and SF; they were already well established. They were making moves to compete for the Stanley Cup by declaring themselves as a Major League with a little justification. And, Benjamin, they played in Daly City which is much better run than San Francisco. It's even in a different county.
My wife and I enjoyed the WHA as an Indianapolis Racer's fan, to the point we went to at Racer's Whalers playoff game on our wedding night, April 3, 1976. The Racer's demise along with the rest of the WHA was heartbreaking... though we did have the privilege to see a just-turned 17-year-old kid from Ontario score his first Big League professional Goal.. Wayne Gretzky. Even At 17, it was obvious he was going to be "The Great One."
@@richardmourdock2719 The Indy Racers did have decent attendance for the years they existed.
This takes the definition of a "poverty franchise" to new heights
Wait till you hear about the Arizona Coyotes and their likelihood of relocating. Coyotes owner had a lien put on the team for not paying property taxes.
It’s interesting that this wasn’t even the last time we got close to contraction. That honor goes (at least as far as I know) when MLB tried to contract the Expos and the Twins in the early 2000’s and were only stopped when the state of Minnesota won in court to keep the Twins in their lease
2002.
And the fact that the Twins suddenly started playing well in 2002, winning the division and reaching the ALCS. It's hard to contract a team that has started consistently winning the division...
Aside from Tom Hanks, Peanuts creator Charles Schulz was also a Seals fan, and was a regular at their games.
I still am a Seals fan as I spent part of my youth trying to get my friends to go Seals games. The team wasn't that bad. They were entertaining. They could beat Boston, Montreal, New York fairly often. Meloche was a great goalie on the mediocre team. Vadnais was a stalwart defenseman other teams coveted. Croteau, Hicke, Redmond and Boldirev could score. The coaching , well, he is right about. There was a cast of characters, too. Gary Smith, the first goaltender, was drunk in net, Croteau took time out to chat with fans, Gary Simmons, a reserve goaltender was the Round Table Pizza king of Contra Costa County, Chris Worthy, who played in the WHA as well, was cringe worthy. When the PA announcer would state Worthy will replace Meloche in today's line up, the fans booed and some walked out. Finley had a pick that could have had Canadian Hall of Famer, Guy LaFleur in Seal Green, but was mesmerized by shiny trinkets, taking some veterans instead. Yes, a nude girl streaked the rink, yes, a sleepy seal was brought to center ice. The Oakland Coliseum was truly a place where you could See All That. I do miss them and a team with character and personality. Oh, yes, the did beat some great teams often, but would lose to the Canucks, Blues, Islanders , North Stars( with maskless Gump Worsley) consistently.
If they had a pretty good player in I think it was an Ernie hickey scored like 30 goals of first year or something like that I don't remember
I've got all my seals hockey cards from every year that they were in the league
@@mikekeeler6362 Awesome. Any signed?
“The Round Table Pizza King of Contra Costa County” might be the most Bay Area-specific comment I’ve ever read on this site.
I saw my Penguins play the California Golden Seals in the early 70s. Their goalie, Gilles Meloche, stopped 52 of 57 shots in a 5-2 Seals' loss. I also saw the Cleveland Barons play here in 1977. Beat them 4-1. Ahhh the good ole days!
Officially, the franchise was merged into the North Stars, and that’s that. Technically speaking, the Sharks could be the reborn Seals franchise. The Gund brothers, who had bought the Seals, moved them to Cleveland. When the North Stars-Barons merger took place, the Gunds assumed ownership of the team, the best players from both squads and a dispersal draft took place to fetch the unwanted players. Fast forward to 1990 and by this time the Gunds had been trying to get the North Stars moved to Oakland, but the NHL wasn’t having it. They did however grant the Gunds an expansion franchise for the Bay Area in 1991, and at the conclusion of the North Stars Stanley Cup run in 1991, the North Stars and Sharks split players from the roster, then both teams took part in the expansion draft. So, as you can see, the old Seals/Barons were merged into the North Stars, and the Sharks were unmerged from the North Stars, hence the argument the Sharks and Seals are related.
The merger with Barons North Stars improved the team for a few years including a Stanley Cup final with Islanders but in the mid 80s they were back at the bottom of the NHL
My local teams are:
Minnesota Twins - founding member of the American League as the Washington Senators in 1901
Minnesota Vikings - Expansion team of the NFL in 1961-2
Minnesota Timberwolves - Expansion team of the NBA in 1989-90
Minnesota Lynx - Expansion team of the WNBA in 1999
Minnesota Wild - Expansion team of the NHL in 1999-2000
Minnesota United FC - Expansion team of MLS in 2013
(formerly: Minneapolis Lakers - expansion team of the NBA in 1947; Minnesota North Stars - expansion team of the NHL in 1967)
The Twins have won two championships (the most recent in 1991), and the others none. And if WNBA championships mattered, Houston and Detroit would still have teams
This truly is the worst market in sports
There's a reason a lot of Eastern MN are Packer/Brewer/Bucks fans instead
@@Wico90YT Yeah, but I'm a homer from a family of homers. Even though it hurts sometime.
The Wild's first season was 2000-01
I think this story makes the Expos and Twins nearly contracting in 2002 even more insane, that wasn't even 20 years ago
MLB vs the Montreal Expos is probably the greatest sports rivalry of all time.
I wasn't following that too closely, but never believed it was serious. Always sounded like a negotiating tactic against the players union.
@@Big73Red As an Expos fan who knew they were immenently going to move, I'm still pissed off at MLB for killing their wild card chances in 2003 by not allowing any deadline trades or September call-ups. The Expos were right there with the Marlins and others in late August, but had their legs cut out from under them by these decisions as well as having to play all those games in San Juan.
@@diamonddog13 Expos fans have literally every right to be pissed off at the MLB. Allowing multiple cheap asses to run the team into the ground, constantly wanting to contract the team once they had to take control because of said cheap asses owners, 1994, the San Juan experiment and what you just mentioned. All that and everything I just listed is the kid gloves list version of the greatest rivalry in sports history.
The California Golden Seals are now my favorite sports team
Damn idk maybe I gotta go with the Toronto St Patricks what a name.
For another indicator of how much sports have changed since then, check out the white, adless boards in the hockey arena/s. :O
The only thing harder than getting 4 tickets to a Bruins - Candiens game in the 1970s was getting rid of 4 tickets to a Bruins - Seals game.
one fact that i enjoy is that the Ownership (Gordon and George Gund III) of the Cleveland Barons gained majority ownership of the Minnesota North Stars as part of the merger, who would later go on to Purchase the Cavaliers of the NBA, and sell the North Stars to be the owners of the 1990's expansion Bay Area NHL team San Jose Sharks, again having teams in the two markets they previously left.
Charlie Finley was a character for sure. I spoke with Rollie Fingers about the orange baseballs a few months back and he was not a fan. Said they were too slippery and he couldn't get a grip on them
The proposal to have white skates caused a major rebellion amongst the players. Most of them were Canadians after all, and not exactly gender-role enlightened. In Canada white skates were worn by women. No hockey player was going to wear white skates no matter what their boss told them.
Doesn't matter the baseball. Fingers couldn't get Del Unser out if he pitched a damp sponge at him.
In regards to MLB connections, the Seals nickname for a West Coast team actually has older roots. The Pacific Coast League was essentially a minor league baseball organization that gave fans west of the Mississippi some great baseball teams. The Hollywood Stars, the original San Diego Padres, and.... The San Francisco Seals! Future Yankees Hall of Famer Joe Dimaggio played for the Seals and actually had a Minor League hitting streak with them over a decade before his more famous streak!
Seattle Rainiers, owned by a beer baron, and played in the Rainier Valley. They even had hyper-local talent in the case of Ford Hutchinson from Franklin High School, literally in Sick’s Stadiums backyard.
And the Giants played in Seals stadium in San Francisco.
Had you included the MLS, last team to fold would've been Chivas USA in 2014.
I don't think you could have made an interesting video about that haha
@@The_Bad_Guy. doubt it lol. This one was much more interesting.
Nobody cares about MLS 😂😂😂😂 and I watch a lot futbol or soccer from other countries
@@dnoloc I don't either lmao
they were talking about the 4 major leagues but if they included the MLS you would be correct
One thing that the video left out: among those few fans in the later years before moving to Cleveland was Crazy George.
Also, there's a reason NHL players get paid far more now then they did then; in those days, the TV coverage was atrocious, and that's before both CBS and NBC decided, "Yeah, well, no, we're not going to show this any more." How many years was hockey relegated to regional sports networks (and that's assuming you lived in a SportsChannel area, which northern California was not) - and this includes the Stanley Cup Playoffs?
When I was a kid I went to about every Flames games during the mid 70s. I saw the Seals and the Barons. I also saw the Colorado Rockies, Hartford Whalers, Kansas City Scouts...BTW Gordie Howe played for the Whalers...He must have been 50 at the time
Atlanta flames have my favorite logo.
You do realize that one day some tech trillionaire will buy up all the NFL franchises at once and then just fold them all up out of spite due to all the football players and jocks in HS picking on him and shoving him into lockers.
"That'll teach them."
I only knew about the Oakland seals and golden seals and Cleveland barons thanks to a LOLcow style video from urinating tree about the San Jose sharks. However I did not know about all of the crazy stuff that happened in the history of this short-lived old franchise that couldn't last in Oakland or Cleveland
I have never heard of this team before this is hilarious, thanks man
As a Saint Louis Blues fan I actually cried when we won the Cup, I remember when they came into the league way back with the Red Baron and 3 Plager brothers and a guy who’s number I believe was the first number they retired and he died at 23 or 22 and I would always wear that number when I played if possible, btw his name was Bob Gassoff (D). So I can imagine how a Seals fan felt !!
I went to one of their matches back in the 60's at the Cow Palace. They were known as the San Francisco Seals. I had the program until recently. I think I purged of in a garage clean out recently
Love a hockey vid. It’s a great story I’m glad you guys thought it was worth talking about.
Many thought the Lightning would stop existing back in the 1992-1993 season playing at the Expo Hall with a very poor ownership group. If not for Phil Esposito they may not have made it.
Hockey and baseball are my favorite sports, which I understand is a minority viewpoint, so I truly appreciate the hockey content anytime I can get it. You are easily one of my favorite creators on the platform, and I love the sheer range and depth of topics you choose to cover, from the omni to the niche, I am here for all of it.
💜💜
The ownership stake that went to Minn was eventually spun back out to create the Sharks. There is a clear through line from the Barons to the Sharks.
Hey Mike, check out the old ABA basketball league of the 60s-70s. A whole viable league with some legends went under, with just a few teams absorbed by the NBA.
I remember around 20 years ago there was a lot of talk about contraction in MLB with teams like Twins, Expos, Rays folding due to poor attendance and low revenues. Twins got a nice new stadium, expos a new city, and Rays are premier talent producer. Crazy
The Rays are still on occasion rumored to move although it's not contraction. Just in the past year or 2 there was talk about moving them for financial reasons. It came up as side note when ESPN announced the Athletics were eyeing a possible move to Las Vegas. I love discussing the topic of where the Rays could go and the pros and cons of that city.
@@birdman22b would love to hear your thoughts. With FL's latin carribean population it doesnt seem right that baseball fail there. San Antonio is biggest market wo a team then i think san jose and charlotte. But san jose would probably necessitate realignment while charlotte the braves would scream bloody murder.
I think all the time about what expansion to 32 teams would look like (baseball and basketball) and how divisions and conferences can be redone to avoid so much travel but have balanced scheduling
I was born in San Jose in 1966, and have absolutely zero memory of this team existing. Thanks for the piece of history!
The Seals always had ownership problems, and they didn't play in San Francisco. They played in Oakland. Nobody from San Francisco goes to Oakland.
In 1976, the minority owners, the Gund brothers, originally from Cleveland, convinced owner Mel Swig to move to the Richfield Coliseum, in the Cleveland market, to bring the NHL to Northeast Ohio.
Now, I grew up in Northeast Ohio. Richfield is a rural area midway between Cleveland and Akron. Cleveland has hockey history. Nobody in the Akron-Canton area knows hockey exists. What's more, it was a nightmare to get to Richfield from Cleveland's West Side suburbs.
The Barons nearly went broke during the 1976-77 season. Attendance was bad, lower than the 1975-76 WHA Crusaders, who had better colors, a better logo and a better nickname. Marketing was nonexistent. The Barons were on WJW radio, with a weak night time signal. There was no local TV at all. One other factor in the disaster was that the winter of 1976-77 (and the winter that followed it) were the two worst winters in the past 70+ years. 50 below zero temperatures and heavy snowfalls contributed to bad attendance. I was in 7th grade in 1976-77 and we missed massive amounts of school.
The Gund brothers bought out Swig in 1977 and set about improving marketing. The Barons provided 25 free tickets to a game against the Rangers to my school and I got to go.
Another bad winter and poor attendance ( there was a coal miners strike, which led to limited electricity availability in another bad winter) made the Gunds throw in the towel.
The Barons DID NOT fold. They merged with the Minnesota North Stars, who.also had a terrible 1977-78 season and bad attendance.
Three seasons later, the North Stars played for the Stanley Cup. They lost, but they made it there.
The Seals/Barons were not without talent. Dennis Mark, Al McAdam, Charlie Simmer, Bob Stewart, Gilles Meloche - all had distinguished NHL careers. There were a few more, but I don't remember all of them now.
In 1985 the Gund brothers bought the NBA Cleveland Cavaliers from an idiot owner named Ted Stepien and rebuilt the franchise.
In 1990 or so, the Gunds were tired of poor attendance in the Met Sports Center in Bloomington, MN and made noises about moving the North Stars to the Bay Area. Eventually, Norm Green bought the North Stars (I think a Howard Baldwin group may have owned the North Stars after the Gunds) and the Gunds were awarded the NHL's 22nd team in San Jose. The Sharks' expansion draft consisted of an equal number of selections from the North Stars and from the rest of the NHL. In this way the Sharks have a connection to the old Seals.
In 1993 Norm Green moved the North Stars to Dallas.
The NHL did return to Minnesota and Ohio, with the Wild and the Columbus Blue Jackets......which is as close as the NHL will come to Cleveland (the Pittsburgh Penguins are closer to Cleveland but in a different market).
The truly last franchise in the big four sports leagues to go out of business completely was the original Baltimore Bullets, who folded, according to Google, on November 27, 1954.
The last NFL team to go out of business completely was the original Baltimore Colts, who folded after the 1950 season. Note: The NFL states that the last team to fold was the 1952 Dallas Texans, who were taken over by the NFL and finished their season in Hershey, Pennsylvania. The NFL arranged for Baltimore to receive another team. Carroll Rosenbloom was recruited to be the owner and the Colts were the successor to the Texans - the same players, uniforms, equipment, etc....with the addition of the horseshoes on the helmets.
The last baseball teams to fold were in the 19th century.
So, there you have it. The NHL has always had at least one owner who causes problems, and often more than that, but....the Seals/Barons didn't fold. Just as when two companies merge, and only one survives, it does not mean that the non surviving company folded.
Problem with the Cleveland Barons was they played at the old Richfield Coliseum. Which was a nightmare to get to on a GOOD day.
I think that's a lame excuse because how long did the Cavs play there?
When it looked like the San Fransisco Giants were going to move to Tampa Bay, the team was saved by local business men buying the team. This included Peter McGowan and even Charles Schwab. But a few years ago MLB became concerned about the 32 owners of the Giants and made the Giants list who was actually the principle owner of the team and the guy in charge. That I think is Charles Johnson who owns 25% of the team.
Awesome video and awesome bizarre story - I legitimately had never heard of the Seals until now
As a Leafs fan since the days of Sittler, McDonald, Salming, Palmateer, etc. it makes me sad to think that every 1967 expansion team except the Seals has made the Finals and the Leafs haven't managed to make it past the Conference Finals since it was a six team league. Mind you '93 may have ended up different if it weren't for Fraser.
Kerry Fraser - one of the worst refs in NHL history. 1993 was the last year a Canadian team won the Stanley Cup - les Canadiens.
Charles O Finley also owned the Memphis Tams of the aba. He used to invite players to lunch to renegotiate contracts and would then proceed to have them up to his office where they heated up campbells soup on a hot plate.
....outstanding post.......and a lotta fun. thanks.
I just learned something new today. Kansas City-Omaha Kings are/were not the only two city sports team in the Major 4 Sports.
Thanks SRS sports.
Heck, it sounds like we'll have one in the MLB before too long.
Back in the ABA, the Dallas Chaparrals played one season as the Texas Chaparrals and played games in Dallas, Fort Worth, and Lubbock. They would later relocate and become the San Antonio Spurs.
@@paladin677 Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim
Will you do a video about the near-contraction of the Twins and Expos before the Expos moved? The folding of a top 4 team seems strange, but it almost happened in MLB much, much more recently.
Well that’s interesting… technically three of my four teams are expansion teams.
New York Yankees - Were a member of the American League as the original Baltimore Orioles in 1901. The National League was the premier league from 1876 to 1901 and the then Western League merged with the National League to become the American League and together became Major League Baseball. Any team founded after the 1876 establishment of the National League is an expansion team.
New York Rangers - Although they are a part of the “Original Six” their first season was in 1926. Almost 10 years after the NHLs first season.
New York Jets - Though they are a founding member of the AFL as the “Titans of New York” their story pretty much mirrors the Yankees. The NFL was the premier league, lessor leagues popped up including the AFL, the AFL eventually merged with the NFL.
New York Knicks - I’m not really a basketgame fan but Wikipedia tells me that the Knicks existed at the NBAs founding so they are not an expansion team.
Last teams to go defunct in the other three existing U.S.-based major league sports leagues:
NFL: Dallas Texans (1952) - only lasted the one season, 1952.
NBA: Baltimore Bullets (1954) - only defunct NBA franchise to have won an NBA title (1947-48).
MLB: Louisville Colonels, Baltimore Orioles, Cleveland Spiders, Washington Senators (1899) - all four went belly up when the NL contracted from 12 to 8 teams for the 1900 season.
Note 1: The Dallas Texans, Baltimore Bullets, Baltimore Orioles, and Washington Senators listed here have no connection with the professional sports franchises that later carried the same name.
Note 2: Major sports leagues that folded or had teams merged into one of the still existent major leagues had a number of teams that went defunct simultaneously. This would include the Union Association (baseball, 1884), the Players' League (baseball, 1890), the American Association (baseball, 1891), the Federal League (baseball, 1915), the All-America Football Conference (1950), Negro League Baseball (1951), the World Football League (1975), the American Basketball Association (1976), the World Hockey Association (1979), and the United States Football League (1986).
Growing up in the Bay Area in the 1970's I went to a few Seals games. I just figured no one really cared about them because, ice skating, let alone hockey was not a thing in the Bay Area where it didn't snow or rarely get cold enough to have any ice.
Los Angeles does not deserve an NFL team, considering the number of teams they’ve had and lost and had again.
Minnesota didn't really get to keep their history. We lost it when the team left for Dallas which sucks cause the North Star name, logo and colors were way better than the Minnesota Man Bear Pigs.
“Chances are your favorite sports team is an expansion team of sorts”
*laughs in chicagoan*
I had never heard of this team. I mean it’s been decades ago but I still feel bad for the players. I wonder what the locker room was like? Did they ever half jokingly have some beers together where they came up with scenarios to get rid of their I-have-to-score-a-goal Coach? Did they go out to introductions surprised to hear their team name? Did the teams that played them make jokes about them or was the team so awful, the other teams actually felt bad for them? So many questions. Thanks for the video.
Even crazier is the Ottawa Rough Riders of Canadian football, the oldest professional sports club in North America, which started in 1876 and folded in 1996.
I learned things on the Seals I did not remember as they were part of the 1967-1968 expansion from the original 6 to 12 teams. I may be wrong but I think the expansion teams may have ended up all in their own division as a way of compromise with some of the owners of the original 6 teams being leary of the expansion and the effect on their rivalries. Being a Blues fan the 1967-1968 season turned in to something special. Their coach for most of the season was Scotty Bowman. It was too bad the Blues let go their great coach because I think her a few years later wanted total control of the team. As history showed the Blues would have done well having Scotty Bowman in total control of the team. Scotty Bowman brought old vets to the team like Doug Harvey and Dickie Moore. That first season they played the finals versus Montreal losing each game by a goal with two games going to overtime. Goalie Glenn Hall though was the big reason for the games being so close. Placing a team in the Bay area was not a bad idea though as the San Jose Sharks have proven. Thanks for placing this on RUclips.
Tom Hanks also worked at the Oakland Arena, where the Seals played. My Mom went to almost every game because they gave away free tickets to the ladies who did Roller Derby, as the Finneys owned both of the local roller derby leagues.
Tom Hanks went to Skyline HS in Oakland with Roy Sommer
who played in the NHL with Edmonton.
Sommer coached my sons HS line mate with the Worcester Sharks in the NHL.
My favorite part about Franchise Hockey Manager is playing the Cleveland Barons Challenge and winning the cup lmao.
The important lesson is this happened before the dawn of regional cable sports channels.
There were rumours the Seals were going to be sold to a group from Buffalo or a group from Vancouver......The NHL had a deal with the network for two teams in California so both were nixed. Two years later the Sabres and Canucks were born.
I saw the seals when they were known as oakland and golden seals. I bought a few game programs on ebay and 20+ yrs. ago, I bought the topps and o-pee-chee seal cards.
Very insightful…..I suppose the closest other circumstance was when MLB was contraction… yup Minnesota and the Chisox .
In 2001, MLB came close to shutting down 2 teams (the Minnesota Twins and the Montreal Expos) but then there was threat of a severe lawsuit so the two remained
A judge in Minneapolis with a ruling that prevented that from happening
In a way, you could make the argument that the Seals sort of live on...as the San Jose Sharks. The Gunds - Gordon and George - owned the Seals when they moved to Cleveland and actually bought the North Stars as part of the merger between the Barons and the North Stars. Throughout the '80s they agitated to move the Stars to the Bay Area, and the NHL weren't wild about ditching the Minnesota market. So a compromise was struck: the Gunds would sell Minnesota, and in exchange, get an expansion franchise to place in the Bay. But as part of the deal, they got a chunk of the North Stars roster, and the North Stars and Sharks then both participated in the Expansion Draft to fill things out. The effect was a "de-merging" of the Barons/Seals from the North Stars, so the Sharks are *kind of* a continuation of the Seals. The two teams just kind of operated as a joint venture for a while. Of course, this isn't how it's reflected on in stats, and the Sharks don't actually retain the Seal's statistical history (though, to be fair, who would really want to), but it's an interesting quirk that gives the Sharks a nice link back to the 1967 expansion.
Of course, with all this in mind, the Seals/Barons/Sharks are still the only 1967 Expansion Club to never win the Stanley Cup. Though they have at least made the Finals.
If the A's move out of Oakland, the City of Oakland will be the only city to lose 4 Major Sports Franchises.
In case anyone's interested in the last time a team folded in the big 4.
NFL Dallas Texans 1952
NBA Baltimore Bullets 1947-1954
NL Washington Senators 1891-1899
No mention of Jerry Seltzer of roller derby fame was the other bidder for the Seals?
I have a feeling the Sharks paying tribute to the Seals is also because the Gund Brothers were originally part of the final Seals/Barons ownership group, took over the North Stars in '78, then got the Sharks in '91 after an attempt to move the North Stars to the Bay Area was vetoed by the league. (Gordon, who was primarily involved in running the Cavaliers from 1983 until 2005, divested his portion of the Sharks in 2002; George III, the face of the hockey operations until 2002, retained a share in the expanded ownership group from that date until his death in 2013.)
You never heard of the WHA Denver Spurs, it was even more weird season, it was like the twilight zone. These guys wanted an NHL franchise, but were rebuffed, so they joined the WHA. The season started off shaky, with problems getting an agreement with the arena, so after only playing a small amount of games there they got thrown out. The owners abandoned the team and the league took over, but it did not stop there. They were supposed to play a home game against the Cincinnati Stingers, but ended up playing in Cincinnati instead, with the players not knowing where they'd end up. The game went as scheduled, but oddly enough, the Canadian anthem was played as well, odd since it was 2 America teams playing against each other. They landed in Ottawa, with the league trying to find an owner in the nation's capital. They played their first game in Ottawa, wearing the Spurs jerseys. Nobody wanted to buy it, so the league shut it down and the players ended up wherever they ended up.
“Teams will never die again”. Glances at the coyotes…
Finally someone who promises the same topic and doesn’t go on to talk about teams the changes names or moved
Where he says alot of sports teams have jokes that write themselves and then there are the Seals. While showing clips of an Browns and Lions game definitely hammers home the point.
This is the real life equivalent to the Flint Tropics
Tiny Tim and the guy who founded the Hells Angels were big Seals fan. The Hells Angels used to got to the games all the time. Gilles Meloche even said one of the Hells Angels told him if he ever had any problems with anyone to tell the Angels and they would deal with it.
The key point in this saga is that in the '70s, hockey was just barely considered a "major sport" in America. Prior to the '67 expansion, hockey was almost exclusively a Canadian sport. If you consider the Red Wings to represent Detroit-Windsor, the three Canadian teams in the Original Six had won all except one of the Stanley Cups awarded since World War II. Then throw in the fact that in the early expansions (especially '67), the new teams were just given the dregs, the players that the existing teams essentially didn't want. Under the circumstances, it's actually somewhat miraculous that any of the six teams managed to survive.
The golden seals sort of exist still to this day. They contracted and formed with the Minnesota north stars who then eventually moved to become the dallas stars.
I recently got myself a Seals "new green and yellow" throwback jersey. So simple yet so sharp.
You see a lot of this kind of situation in motorsports just look at star com racing in Nascar
Ralph klassen was from my home town of Muenster SK played for the seals one of my friends had his signed hockey card
Funny thing…it’s day 22, and I didn’t even realize the MLB was in a lockout until I watched this video 🤣
In 1970, California sent their 1st round pick in 1971 along with Francois Lacombe AND cash for Montreal’s 1970 1st round pick and Ernie Hicke. Montreal’s pick in 1970 was 10th and California used that pick to select Chris Oddleifson. He never played for them and Ernie Hicke only played 2 seasons for them. Montreal made a trade with LA to make them better and ensure California would finish last, which they did. Montreal would use the 1st overall pick to select Hall of Famer, and arguably the best Canadien ever, Guy Lafleur.
This is about the Cleveland Barons isn't it😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞😞
As a Clevelander and NHL fan this story always fascinates me. I rock my Barons jersey whenever possible!!!
I wear a Philadelphia Blazers jersey.
technically the north stars split in 1992 into the dallas stars and the san jose sharks because the thinking was minesota was two franchise so if the owner was to move the team, they had to put a team back in the bay area (i'm not the best to explain but it's insane since the golden seal so ...)
This video is factually incorrect. The Seals moved to Cleveland and became the Barons for two seasons. The Barons then merged with the North Stars. They technically unmerged when the Sharks came into existence. The Gunds owned the Seals/Barons, the merger with the North Stars happened because the North Stars owner couldn't afford to own an NHL team anymore. So the North Stars/Barons took the best players of both teams and put forth the best roster they could. Gordon Gund then tried to move the North Stars back to the bay area but was blocked by the NHL from doing so, they did allow Gund to sell the North Stars and granted him the ownership of the San Jose Sharks. There was then a dispersal draft from the North Stars to the Sharks, thus technically unmerging, the Sharks took 14 skaters and 2 goalies from the North Star players before the expansion draft. After this the North Stars and Sharks participated in an expansion draft to fill out each teams roster. Thus, technically, the Sharks are the successor to the Seals/Barons.
I went to a bruins Canucks last month and I wore an Oakland seals 1967 jersry/sweater and no one even knew I was wearing an NHL jersey/ sweater.
The birth of the Sharks also somewhat mimics the death of the Seals in reverse. The North Stars, who "merged" with the Seals, contracted and simultaneously got a new expansion team, along with San Jose, and both teams inherited some players from the original North Stars while also participating in an expansion draft with the rest of the league to fill out their rosters. So, in a sense the Sharks are the inheritors of the Seals legacy for more reasons than just being in the bay area.
Cleveland Barons were originally an AHL team that disappeared a couple years before the Seals moved to Cleveland and they became an NHL Cleveland Barons. Then in 2001 Cleveland's revived AHL team renamed to the Barons again, before dying in 2006, and being revived a few years later as the Lake Erie Monsters. The Monsters actually went on to win the Calder Cup however, then were renamed Cleveland Monsters. So at least the AHL side of the Barons has had better history than the NHL iteration lol
And then after merging with the north stars, the owner had an affair with his secretary and his wife said she would leave unless he moved to a warmer city. The state of hockey had no hockey team for a long time
I wouldn't call 8 seasons a long time. Its definitely sucks they lost their team, but compared to other teams who had to wait for a team to come back, Minnesota is definitely on the shorter side.
The reason the NHL always lags. The league runners are fools. Even today - Florida has two teams, Arizona has a team. WISCONSIN DOESN’T. That’s the NHL for you
Didn't some of those players go to the Washington capitals I think Dennis marouk
@@TTony-tu6dm "Arizona has a team" let's see how long that lasts lol
And in 1995 The owner of the North Stars retired from the team or sometime around then. It was 4 years before Minnesota had a team with a person's Attempt to buy out the Jets with no luck getting blocked by the NHL only in expansion getting a team in 1997 on the premise these teams have until 2000 to get ready, well the old North Stars arena the Xcel Energy Center was there but just needed redo on the place since it needed a few upgrades since 1993 when the Center needed some upgrades anyhow. Not Sure but I thought the Name Target got added to the Ecel Engery center when The Timberwolves got a new sponsor name to help with more upgrades to the place?
If you took away the taxpayer subsidies that most sports teams (and sports arenas) get, you'd see a LOT of teams folding.
The North Stars became the Dallas Stars
5:50 what is the name of that sitcom?
Technically the Minnesota North Stars that merged also split off a decade later when Gunds wanted to move back to California in San Jose. Gunds is the owner of the San Jose Sharks still so I like to think that the Golden Seals just remained dormant inside the North Stars for just over a decade
"A team in one of the big leagues will never have to straight-up fold again."
*shows the Bengals*
Woah woah woah, let's not get ahead of ourselves here...
NHL is by a long shot the most unstable of the big 4 pro sports leagues, there are actually quite a few NHL teams that are on the brink of bankruptcy every year and defiantly the league that would have the highest chance of a team strait up folding out of existence in the future.
MLS will probably become America's fourth sport sooner rather than later.
So I agree with the premise that the seals/barons are nonexistent any longer and the sharks are a completely new franchise.
But on paper they try to maintain a link. Gund, an owner of the seals became part owner of the north stars when they “merged”. When the north stars moved to Dallas and became just the “stars” (I was hoping for “lone stars”) they also partitioned out Gund’s ownership fraction and he turned that fraction into the Sharks, even taking several minn players with him as part of the deal. Essentially they called it an “undoing” of the previous “merger”.
So on paper they never went away, not the way franchises of the pre-WW2 era completely disappeared.
But that’s all just on paper. Just like the Ravens of 1996 are REALLY the relocated browns. And the current browns franchise only has a connection to the old one ON PAPER. Sure they got to keep their banners and record books, but that just serves to show how badly the new franchise is compared to the old one. (Which is kinda the opposite of the sharks, who are significantly more successful than the seals ever were, even in their first few years of horrible play)
Wayne Gretzky was playing pro hockey when this team existed. Their folding made room for the Oilers to keep existing during the WHA/NHL merger. So he wasn't in their league when they existed, but it was close.
Off topic, but considering all the amazing Mets stories this channel has, I'm surprised there hasn't been an Oliver Perez story here. He's had a lot of moments with the Mets (mostly frustrating moments, but nonetheless), and I want to hear some stories from a Mets fan perspective. Is that going to be on the bucket list?
He was great every other start/appearance. Very frustrating
They started as the Oakland Seals, but became the California Golden Seals later on
Seals had a goalie who would regularly come way out of his net, even trying to carry the puck into the offensive zone himself. Rule 27.7 “Participating in the Play Over the Center Red Line” exists because of the Seals. I’m sorry I can’t find the source for this but I remember reading it in a story about the expansion years.
In 1990 the Minnesota Cleveland merger was undone and the San Jose Sharks were born.
Although San Jose was considered to be an “expansion team“ with no reference to their prior history.