The ending made me think of Brian Scalabrine. The dude looked pretty goofy and he was not a great NBA player, but people forget that he actually got to the NBA for a reason. There are multiple videos of college and high school players that think they're hot shit playing 40+ year old retired Scalabrine 1 on 1 and getting absolutely destroyed. People really don't understand how good you have to be to even be a "bad" professional athlete.
Brian Scalabrine is one of my favourite examples of what makes professional sports special. Someone who is considered to be one of the worst to play the game professionally still is top 1-2% easily.
@@Haplessrabit I love Scal. But yeah, even the guys that ride the bench in the NBA are among the 500 best basketball players on the planet. You have to have ridiculous talent and/or work ethic to make it out of the millions that play the game.
I watched a video the lowest rated FIFA player. This channel tested his skills. He was putting the ball where it needed to go pretty consistently. He was still really good. Are there people out there that are good enough or were unfortunate with injuries or living in any area with no scouting in some cases? Yes. I seen hundreds of them. But to play pro at a high level, people don't understand how good the worst still is.
I think my favorite example of how even a “bad” professional athlete is really good comes from the NBA: Brian Scalabrine. He played in the NBA for 11 seasons and was always at or near the bottom of the league statistically (his best season he averaged only 6.3 ppg, 4.5 reb, and 1.6 ast). After he retired, he actually hosted a show where he played one on one against shit talkers and absolutely destroyed them all. One of his best quotes was something like, “I am closer to LeBron than you are to me.” Even bad professional athletes were good enough to make the league and are significantly better than the average person.
Also, Bill Bergen's stats hitting wise dont tell the whole story. He played in the dead-ball era, so his stats arent that awful considering the league average in 1908 was .239. He was an incredible defensive player, with such a good value that we could compare him defensively to the likes of Molina and Salvador Perez, as stated in the video. Also, as a little trivia, his brother Marty Bergen was an all-star caliber catcher who could both hit and play the field well. I could imagine him being in the HOF if he wasnt... A little crazy.... Yeah I can put it in that way
One thing about Andres Thomas: He was in Atlanta when they were basically a one-man team (Dale Murphy). He free-swinging tendencies were probably made worse by the lack of production around him.
The last two to three minutes or so of your commentary is absolutely outstanding. You are spot on when you say that you have to be really good in order to be really bad at something. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this video. I always feel weird when someone says a pro sports player "sucks" because, yes, relative to the other pro sports players, they may be bad, but relative to the billions of people that haven't played pro sports, they were pretty damn good.
This was a good video, with a good message at the end, but I can't help but feel you left out one player who may have in fact been the worst player in MLB history (even over noodle-bat Bill Bergen): Jim Levey. Jim Levey was a player who played primarily from 1931 to 1933, with a cup of coffee in 1930, for the infamous St Louis Browns. The St Louis Browns were the worst team in the league by a longshot. From 1902-1954, the time they existed in St Louis before moving to Baltimore to become the Orioles, they had an all time winning percentage of .433. For reference, the Washington Senators from 1901-1960 (who became the Twins), who's tagline "First in War, First in peace, and Last in the American League" is one of those things that has kinda become a thing of legend, but at least they had a good year now and then and actually won a WS, in 1924. Their winning percentage in Washington was .465, miles better than St Louis's .433. This isn't to say that the Browns didn't have some good years, but they never won a WS, and only made it once, in the war year of 1944. They lost to the Cardinals in 6 (yes, to their fellow St Louisians). I say all this to say that Jim Levey wasn't kept around because of his ability or promise (although he did somehow get MVP votes in 1932), but because the Browns had no one better. Now, his stats? Ghastly. Not as bad at hitting as Bill Bergen, but still... Let's have a look. 1931: OPS +: 42 WRC +: 40 B-R WAR: -2.7 F WAR: -3.3 So 1931 was already one of the worst years ever, and he was a rookie. Let's look at 1932. 1932: OPS +: 75 WRC +: 71 B-R WAR: -0.5 F WAR: -0.8 Keep in mind, this was his GOOD year, and he somehow got a couple MVP votes. Sportswriters of the 30s folks. 1933: OPS +: 24 WRC +: 23 B-R WAR: -4.0 (!!!) F WAR: -4.0 (!!!) This might be the worst year in baseball history. Not only was his offense Bergen-like, but his defense was atrocious. Yes, you could say that about the rest of his career, but his offense was at its worst this year. He was actually worth 0.1 defensive WAR this year specifically, but that was only because he was a shortstop and gets 9 runs from that; he lost 8 of them from fielding. I call that a bad fielder. His cumulative WAR from this year is the worst I have found from a position player in one year on B-R, and while I don't use Fangraphs as much, I'm sure its high there. Also, Jim Levey has the lowest WAR I've ever found on B-R in a career; although Bill Bergen beats him out on Fangraphs, but at least he stuck around a LONG time and had a really good skill in defense. So Jim Levey was a TERRIBLE baseball player at the MLB level. But you wanna know something funny? He actually played in the NFL too, and while not great there, in 1935 scored 4 TDs rushing and receiving, good for 5th in the league, which really does go back to your final point: everyone has value, to something, or someone. He was certainly, at least by that statistic, a valuable to a point NFL player, and obviously had a family. So hats off to Jim Levey, my pick for the worst MLB player ever!
Talking about how good you have to be to even make the majors reminds me of what Matt Antonelli said. Antonelli was a first rounder whose baseball career was derailed by injuries but who managed to spend a couple call-ups in the bigs. He now does a series of Q&A videos on RUclips on what it is like to be a professional player (what the living conditions are in the majors vs. the minors, what it's like to be traded or released, how you live on minor league pay, etc.). One question he is often asked is where the best college teams would fit against the minor leagues, with the person asking suggesting that they might be equal to a strong AA or even AAA team. He said that they wouldn't even cut it in A ball. Your best college teams have a few stars who make it into the pros, and even into the majors. But the majority of players in even the best teams will not play an inning of pro ball. They aren't good enough for the scouts to give them even a cursory glance. Meanwhile, the worst team in A ball is made up entirely of players who the scouts noticed and considered to be good enough to play at the pros. One or two may be good enough for the majors, just as one or two on a top Division 1 college team should be. The college team probably has even better players at the top than the pro team. But the other guys on the pro team will be far better than the other guys on the college team, and that's why the pro team will be better. So like Brian Scalabrine, mentioned by multiple people here as an NBA scrub who shows that he can wipe the walls with local basketball players, your minor league guys are generally quite a bit better than your college players who never got the chance to play pro.
Some time back, I read an article similar to this video that came to the conclusion that the worst player ever was a fellow with the apt name of Tony Suck. Mr. Suck didn't play as long as any of the guys mentioned here, but he did live up to his name.
Dan Meyer's problem with his defense was that he was an adequate first baseman, but didn't hit enough to justify putting him there especially when their were other, better hitters on his team who also played first. So they put him in left field and third base where he was an absolute disaster. Andres Thomas was expected to be an All Star shortstop when he was a prospect, but he made a ton of errors and didn't hit enough to compensate.
My Dad once played softball against a guy who had pitched in the minors for a year or two but wasn't good enough to stick around. He said he started his motion and suddenly the ball was just in the catcher's mitt and the umpire was signalling strike one. Again, that was with a big green softball.
I was a semi-pro baseball player at one point and a friend of mine needed some players for his fast pitch softball team. I'd never played but he figured since I was used to 90MPH+ fastballs I could hit a softball. So we're in a pre season game and I wasn't starting. I was just there to meet the team and all and get a feel for everything. It was the end of the game and the other team brings in their closer. He's warming up and he doesn't look like anything special. Without warning, the coach tells me to go in and pinch hit. My teammates are all cracking some smiles, and saying, "Go get 'em rook!" I step up to the plate. Dude fires a pitch I didn't even see, all I heard was a whooshing crackle, the snap of the glove behind me, and a "STTEEERIKE!" Second pitch, same thing. Third pitch I swung and managed to foul off. My team starts mockingly cheering for me. Next pitch I miss and strike out. I walk back to the bench and my coach is laughing his butt off, the team is laughing, too. After he catches his breath he goes, "I didn't expect you to touch this guy. He throws 103MPH. We were amazed you fouled that pitch off!" 103...from not 66 feet away, but 48!
While stats may not lie, they also need context. - back when Coleman was pitching, teams had 1 or 2 starting pitchers that pitched the entire game and almost every game of the season. There was no bullpen or relief pitcher. - while he holds records for hits given up, earned runs, etc., but some of his peripherals look halfway decent should clue you in. The man STARTED 65 games and had 59 COMPLETE GAMES in ONE SEASON. He tossed 581 innings that year! - in his rookie season his ERA was 4.87, but his FIP (fielding independent pitching) was 3.34. Over a run and a half better. You can further back this up by him allowing 291 earned runs, but the team behind him allowed 510 runs total. His team played some atrocious defense. - errors were ruled differently back then and a lot of errors would be ruled as hits by the rules back then.
I like the lesson of the story, you don't get the opportunity to be terrible at something unless you bring something to the table. Like those pitchers who lose 20 games, the fact that they keep trotting you out there every 5th day to accomplish that is pretty remarkable.
Growing up in the '60s, the most notorious bad hitter was Ray Oyler. He was a good defensive shortstop with Detroit in the mid-60s but close to an automatic out at the plate. When the Tigers reached the 1968 World Series, Oyler was removed from the starting lineup in favor of Mickey Stanley, a fourth outfielder that could at least hit. Oyler was taken by Seattle in the 1969 expansion draft and finished his career with the Angels. In six seasons, he was .175/.258/.251/.508. On Baseball-Reference, Oyler's OWAR was -2.3 but his DWAR was 5.3, which was why he was able to play as long as he did.
BJ Melvin Upton was absolutely HORRENDOUS during his time in Atlanta. I have never seen such a bad baseball player. As a diehard Braves fan, I thought we would never get out of his massive contract AND at the same time, we had to suffer through Dan Uggla..... talk about misery
Was not ready for the depth of the ending. This should also be a stark reminder of how literally awesome Shohei Ohtani's 2021 was. The very best pitchers generally can't hit worth a poop and the very best hitters usually suck at pitching. But Shohei is stupidly good at both.
4:24 This conversation took place between Pedro Guerrero and Tommy Lasorda: "Pedro, what are you thinking out in the field?" "I'm thinking, please, God, don't let ball get hit to me." "What else?" "I'm also thinking, please, God, don't let ball get hit to Steve Sax."
John Coleman was not that bad. He pitched over 500 innings in one year. Players didn't use gloves then, and all of them pitched underhand. And he pitched several years after 1883 and did OK. A much better example of the worst pitcher would be William Stecher. 0-10, 10.32 ERA in, you guessed it, 10 starts. 68 innings, 111 hits, 18 strikeouts, -2.9 WAR in his only MLB season, 1890. And for someone a little more recent, how about this season? 4-7, 10.64 ERA, 19 games, 13 starts, 67.2 innings, 107 hits, 42 walks. -2.8 WAR. Would you give him another chance after a season like that? The Blue Jays did. Good thing. He won his first Cy Young three years later. Hall of Famer Roy Halladay.
Alan Travers! Lifetime ERA of 15.75. Replacement pitcher for the Detroit Tigers in 1912 while the team staged a wildcat strike in opposition to Ty Cobb’s suspension for fighting (beating up, really) an unruly and disabled fan. There’s no evidence that Travers, a Philadelphia resident, ever visited Detroit. Not good at anything, baseball-wise that is - holds the distinction of being the only MLB pitcher to be ordained as a Roman Catholic priest, and he had a creditable 30+ year career as a high school teacher. So, as bad as he was as a pitcher, he pulled his weight as a human being. Eddie Gaedel was probably the least physically qualified person to ever play, but he did have a lifetime OBP of 1.000 - which would be tough to beat.
Thought Ray Oyler might show up in this conversation. According to his Wikipedia page he holds the distinction as being the position player with the lowest career batting average in the modern era. (Minimum 1000 plate appearances) Being a Tigers fan, I always knew he was a crap hitter but a good fielder. Glancing over his stats, I see he's actually a career 0.0 WAR player. He was a shortstop, so, he must've been an amazing fielder.
He played in 146 games in 1967, started 125, and had a FP of .964 with a RTot of 17. Not great but not terrible. He's my default guy when I hear "worst player ever." But yes, Anthony Young proves the "have to be good to be bad" axiom; in between all those consecutive Ls, he saved a bunch of games and I don't think he was ever sent down. Plus we now acknowledge more easily that Ws are a terrible pitcher's stat.
It's rare to see anyone mention Pedro Guerrero these days. He was a monster hitter in his day. If you made any sort of mistake down in the strike zone you weren't getting that ball back.
I was going to say the same thing. There are A LOT of defensive specialist catchers, and Bergen was one of the better ones of his era. Every single season he was at least at, but most often times above league average for throwing runners out. His worst performance ever was 45% in his final season, and that was still at or better than the rest of the league. And that really means something because back then baseball was a small ball game. Stealing bases was a big part of the game.
Not So Fun Fact: Bill Bergen’s brother, Marty, was also a big league catcher from 1897-1899. He was apparently so skilled behind the plate, that even though he only played 3 seasons, he received a few Hall of Fame votes. Hurting his case, however, was the fact that in the 1899-1900 offseason, he murdered his wife and children before turning the axe (yes, axe) on himself.
0:00 You almost had me tripping I thought you were an IBFP fan! That's International Boxing Fans Podcast if you reading and curious. Funny and factual boxing info. Loved the vid! 8/8
Bill Bergen was also apparently really good at calling games for pitchers. What was the difference between pitchers' combined ERA when he was catching for them and when he wasn't?
I played D1 baseball, so next time you see me in Arby's complaining about a guy flailing at a pitch outside of the zone, I'll be saying that I could do better. It's important to know, I really can't. I tried, really hard. didn't happen.
My pitching coach was a pitcher in the steroid era, who pitched in the NL Central in 1998. He often is like yeah i had a bad career. he did have a negative career rWar and an 82 ERA+, but he also managed a 90 OPS+ across his career, he slashed .271/.364/.354 as a pitcher. thats why he stayed in the league for six years.
I remember Andres Thomas when I watched the Braves regularly in the eighties. I could never figure out why they continued to trot that guy out year after year.
How an obscure Mariners trade in ‘96 with the Twins broke an 85 year drought (David Arias trade) and prevented at least 5 icons of baseball from playing on the same team
The one potential saving grace for Bergen is that more advanced defensive metrics most definitely didn't exist in his day -- especially the very recently emerging catcher framing metrics. Were he a Jose Molina (#2 of the 3 Molina brother catchers)-level framer, he might have approached RLP value However, that could also be the thing that condemned him the most. Were he the Ryan Doumit of his day... well... maybe those people in Arby's would be correct about him.
Hmmmm, wrong player. As a Twins fan, it's Miguel Sano. He's exactly the same as Mike Trout season over season but in reverse. Throw out 2019 because his lineup protection was beyond historical. He's only still on a major league roster because Twins ownership really doesn't want to do another David Ortiz.
Enzo Hernandez for the 1971 San Diego Padres had one of the all time weakest hitting seasons. In 143 games he hit 12 extra base hits 9 doubles and 3 triples and had only 12 RBI's!. He played pretty badly for about 6 seasons on offense. Although his defense wasn't that bad.
I wondered how you were going to choose from the people who only took the field a few times, if that, in their entire careers. Which of the couple dozen pitchers with a lifetime ERA of infinity do you start with?
I’ve always read that Jeff Mathis is the career worst hitter in baseball history with a specific number of games or at bats. His 17 year career finished with a career 0.2 WAR and .194 batting average over 2,718 at bats. He had a career -6.4 OWAR. But to the video author’s point of still having value to someone… Jeff Mathis also made $22 million dollars to be a terrible hitter but respectable catcher. He did have a 12.6 career DWAR.
When I was a kid I played with someone who would flinch and duck if the ball was thrown or hit to him as a fielder but he could crush the ball. If our league had a DH and he didn’t have to play defence we would have gone undefeated every year. Playing OF didn’t matter because his throwing accuracy was pretty bad.
video in summary: - baseball stats are pretty good for a sport - you can tell from stats that a baseball player is good or bad - if you know a baseball player is good or bad, you can find statistical evidence of it - here are some players with really bad stats!! these players truly were the worst. stats don’t lie - these players were still good at something - the players earned their spot on a major league team - however, they still were super bad because i said so and the stats are definitely not cherrypicked
1883 - The Phils' first year in the NL. That explains why Coleman was hit around that year. That was one of the worst teams in Phils' history (17-81-1). UGH!!!
The saying means you have to be really good in one area or at something in order to be really bad in another or at something else. No one is gonna keep a really bad hitter unless they are a really good fielder. And vice versa. You have to be exceptional at something for them to keep you if you are horrible at another part.
The gold glove and Jeff Mathis mentioned halfway were obvious forshadowing. Players who were truly awful at everything would never get past the minor leagues. And since you were mentioning other sports, think back to the dark era of goon hockey in the 1970s and 1980s: many of the worst goons were still talented players in junior hockey, but they were pushed into it because there too many players and too few jobs. They didn't get to the NHL by accident, many had skill (see the linked video below). Paul Stewart, one of the worst goons of the Philadelphia Flyers went on to be a highly respected NHL referee.
Forget the Mendoza Line. Why isn"t there a Bergen Line. Just goes to show that virtually all major league players have to bring something to the table.....
I was hoping to see the guy who pitched in the 30s(?), never recorded a single out and was pulled from the mound where he immediately went to the showers, left the ballpark and joined the Navy.
So, I'm about to destroy your entire video concept here... Alan Travers. He was the worst player in big league history. And no, he wasn't good at all. He was the guy at Arby's. He never made a Major League team. He never made a minor league team. He couldn't make his local college team - He was their equipment manager. And yet, he has one start for The Tigers because the team was on strike and they needed to find someone to play.
Technically the only complex number in baseball is the number of World Series the Mariners have won, because I dreamed one night that they had won the World Series, so they have one imaginary win and zero real wins.
The Scott Steiner killed me right there. “You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try! So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice. See, but I'm gonna break it down for all you ladies. Would you rather be with me? Or would you rather be with Joe?” Only the greatest promo ever
I was wondering when Mathis would be brought up, not because he's a terrible player but bc his offense is up there when we're talking the worst. Also aside: feel like we should always give like a "worst" before & after the live ball era
@@CyberchaoX honestly the more I start thinking about it the more I agree. yeah I do like looking at live ball and dead ball differently, but it always feels like apples and oranges to compare guys who played in the last 50 years to dead ball era guys who existed before like actual professionalization and standardized training...but that means replacement level would be less trained aka worse
ed kranepool is probably the least valuable player to have over 5000 plate appearances. 5.8 career offensive war with negative 11 defensive war. so... below replacement performance and the mets kept him around for 18 years on the grounds that the fans like him, and he can hit a right-hander. .693 ops and as slow as anyone youve ever seen. first baseman who could neither field with any range, hit with power, draw walks, hit a left-hander, or score from first on a triple.
The ending made me think of Brian Scalabrine. The dude looked pretty goofy and he was not a great NBA player, but people forget that he actually got to the NBA for a reason. There are multiple videos of college and high school players that think they're hot shit playing 40+ year old retired Scalabrine 1 on 1 and getting absolutely destroyed. People really don't understand how good you have to be to even be a "bad" professional athlete.
Brian Scalabrine is one of my favourite examples of what makes professional sports special. Someone who is considered to be one of the worst to play the game professionally still is top 1-2% easily.
@@Haplessrabit I love Scal.
But yeah, even the guys that ride the bench in the NBA are among the 500 best basketball players on the planet. You have to have ridiculous talent and/or work ethic to make it out of the millions that play the game.
Its been said, regular people are far far far away to Scalabrine than he is to LeBron
True although back 100 years ago in baseball this was way less true bc sports just weren't professionalized.
I watched a video the lowest rated FIFA player. This channel tested his skills. He was putting the ball where it needed to go pretty consistently. He was still really good. Are there people out there that are good enough or were unfortunate with injuries or living in any area with no scouting in some cases? Yes. I seen hundreds of them. But to play pro at a high level, people don't understand how good the worst still is.
I think my favorite example of how even a “bad” professional athlete is really good comes from the NBA: Brian Scalabrine. He played in the NBA for 11 seasons and was always at or near the bottom of the league statistically (his best season he averaged only 6.3 ppg, 4.5 reb, and 1.6 ast). After he retired, he actually hosted a show where he played one on one against shit talkers and absolutely destroyed them all. One of his best quotes was something like, “I am closer to LeBron than you are to me.” Even bad professional athletes were good enough to make the league and are significantly better than the average person.
What a wholesome message at the end.
Respect to Bill Bergen
Also, Bill Bergen's stats hitting wise dont tell the whole story. He played in the dead-ball era, so his stats arent that awful considering the league average in 1908 was .239. He was an incredible defensive player, with such a good value that we could compare him defensively to the likes of Molina and Salvador Perez, as stated in the video.
Also, as a little trivia, his brother Marty Bergen was an all-star caliber catcher who could both hit and play the field well. I could imagine him being in the HOF if he wasnt... A little crazy.... Yeah I can put it in that way
OH I CALLED IT!!
*Secret Base does a whole-ass series about the Mariners*
Dan Meyer: "Whew, they didn't mention me. Looks like I dodged a bullet there."
SRS:
Bartolo Colon would purposefully wear helmets that are too big because he liked when the crowd laughed when it came off.
Ok
@@PHXNKVHXLIC bones is trash
He would also purposefully throw 16 straight strikes right down the middle of the plate just for laughs
Friggin' luv Bartolo
One thing about Andres Thomas: He was in Atlanta when they were basically a one-man team (Dale Murphy). He free-swinging tendencies were probably made worse by the lack of production around him.
The last two to three minutes or so of your commentary is absolutely outstanding. You are spot on when you say that you have to be really good in order to be really bad at something. Thank you.
Really enjoyed this video. I always feel weird when someone says a pro sports player "sucks" because, yes, relative to the other pro sports players, they may be bad, but relative to the billions of people that haven't played pro sports, they were pretty damn good.
This was a good video, with a good message at the end, but I can't help but feel you left out one player who may have in fact been the worst player in MLB history (even over noodle-bat Bill Bergen): Jim Levey.
Jim Levey was a player who played primarily from 1931 to 1933, with a cup of coffee in 1930, for the infamous St Louis Browns. The St Louis Browns were the worst team in the league by a longshot. From 1902-1954, the time they existed in St Louis before moving to Baltimore to become the Orioles, they had an all time winning percentage of .433. For reference, the Washington Senators from 1901-1960 (who became the Twins), who's tagline "First in War, First in peace, and Last in the American League" is one of those things that has kinda become a thing of legend, but at least they had a good year now and then and actually won a WS, in 1924. Their winning percentage in Washington was .465, miles better than St Louis's .433. This isn't to say that the Browns didn't have some good years, but they never won a WS, and only made it once, in the war year of 1944. They lost to the Cardinals in 6 (yes, to their fellow St Louisians).
I say all this to say that Jim Levey wasn't kept around because of his ability or promise (although he did somehow get MVP votes in 1932), but because the Browns had no one better. Now, his stats? Ghastly. Not as bad at hitting as Bill Bergen, but still... Let's have a look.
1931: OPS +: 42 WRC +: 40 B-R WAR: -2.7 F WAR: -3.3
So 1931 was already one of the worst years ever, and he was a rookie. Let's look at 1932.
1932: OPS +: 75 WRC +: 71 B-R WAR: -0.5 F WAR: -0.8
Keep in mind, this was his GOOD year, and he somehow got a couple MVP votes. Sportswriters of the 30s folks.
1933: OPS +: 24 WRC +: 23 B-R WAR: -4.0 (!!!) F WAR: -4.0 (!!!)
This might be the worst year in baseball history. Not only was his offense Bergen-like, but his defense was atrocious. Yes, you could say that about the rest of his career, but his offense was at its worst this year. He was actually worth 0.1 defensive WAR this year specifically, but that was only because he was a shortstop and gets 9 runs from that; he lost 8 of them from fielding. I call that a bad fielder. His cumulative WAR from this year is the worst I have found from a position player in one year on B-R, and while I don't use Fangraphs as much, I'm sure its high there. Also, Jim Levey has the lowest WAR I've ever found on B-R in a career; although Bill Bergen beats him out on Fangraphs, but at least he stuck around a LONG time and had a really good skill in defense.
So Jim Levey was a TERRIBLE baseball player at the MLB level. But you wanna know something funny? He actually played in the NFL too, and while not great there, in 1935 scored 4 TDs rushing and receiving, good for 5th in the league, which really does go back to your final point: everyone has value, to something, or someone. He was certainly, at least by that statistic, a valuable to a point NFL player, and obviously had a family. So hats off to Jim Levey, my pick for the worst MLB player ever!
Somebody had sometime on there hands lol
@@Seho2024 Jim Levey must have done something to this guy or his family to have this essay written about him on a RUclips comment section.
Bucky McBadbat unlocked a core memory 😂😂
"Isn't that your mailbox?" "NOT AGAIN!!"
He tore up Triple-A but couldn't hack it in the majors.
Talking about how good you have to be to even make the majors reminds me of what Matt Antonelli said. Antonelli was a first rounder whose baseball career was derailed by injuries but who managed to spend a couple call-ups in the bigs. He now does a series of Q&A videos on RUclips on what it is like to be a professional player (what the living conditions are in the majors vs. the minors, what it's like to be traded or released, how you live on minor league pay, etc.).
One question he is often asked is where the best college teams would fit against the minor leagues, with the person asking suggesting that they might be equal to a strong AA or even AAA team. He said that they wouldn't even cut it in A ball.
Your best college teams have a few stars who make it into the pros, and even into the majors. But the majority of players in even the best teams will not play an inning of pro ball. They aren't good enough for the scouts to give them even a cursory glance.
Meanwhile, the worst team in A ball is made up entirely of players who the scouts noticed and considered to be good enough to play at the pros. One or two may be good enough for the majors, just as one or two on a top Division 1 college team should be. The college team probably has even better players at the top than the pro team. But the other guys on the pro team will be far better than the other guys on the college team, and that's why the pro team will be better.
So like Brian Scalabrine, mentioned by multiple people here as an NBA scrub who shows that he can wipe the walls with local basketball players, your minor league guys are generally quite a bit better than your college players who never got the chance to play pro.
Some time back, I read an article similar to this video that came to the conclusion that the worst player ever was a fellow with the apt name of Tony Suck. Mr. Suck didn't play as long as any of the guys mentioned here, but he did live up to his name.
I really appreciate this video - recognizing 1 tool players as valuable. I love their stories.
That ending got surprisingly wholesome
was gonna say the same thing, good on ya SRS
Fax
Dan Meyer's problem with his defense was that he was an adequate first baseman, but didn't hit enough to justify putting him there especially when their were other, better hitters on his team who also played first. So they put him in left field and third base where he was an absolute disaster. Andres Thomas was expected to be an All Star shortstop when he was a prospect, but he made a ton of errors and didn't hit enough to compensate.
My Dad once played softball against a guy who had pitched in the minors for a year or two but wasn't good enough to stick around. He said he started his motion and suddenly the ball was just in the catcher's mitt and the umpire was signalling strike one. Again, that was with a big green softball.
I was a semi-pro baseball player at one point and a friend of mine needed some players for his fast pitch softball team. I'd never played but he figured since I was used to 90MPH+ fastballs I could hit a softball.
So we're in a pre season game and I wasn't starting. I was just there to meet the team and all and get a feel for everything. It was the end of the game and the other team brings in their closer. He's warming up and he doesn't look like anything special. Without warning, the coach tells me to go in and pinch hit. My teammates are all cracking some smiles, and saying, "Go get 'em rook!"
I step up to the plate. Dude fires a pitch I didn't even see, all I heard was a whooshing crackle, the snap of the glove behind me, and a "STTEEERIKE!" Second pitch, same thing. Third pitch I swung and managed to foul off. My team starts mockingly cheering for me. Next pitch I miss and strike out. I walk back to the bench and my coach is laughing his butt off, the team is laughing, too. After he catches his breath he goes, "I didn't expect you to touch this guy. He throws 103MPH. We were amazed you fouled that pitch off!"
103...from not 66 feet away, but 48!
While stats may not lie, they also need context.
- back when Coleman was pitching, teams had 1 or 2 starting pitchers that pitched the entire game and almost every game of the season. There was no bullpen or relief pitcher.
- while he holds records for hits given up, earned runs, etc., but some of his peripherals look halfway decent should clue you in. The man STARTED 65 games and had 59 COMPLETE GAMES in ONE SEASON. He tossed 581 innings that year!
- in his rookie season his ERA was 4.87, but his FIP (fielding independent pitching) was 3.34. Over a run and a half better. You can further back this up by him allowing 291 earned runs, but the team behind him allowed 510 runs total. His team played some atrocious defense.
- errors were ruled differently back then and a lot of errors would be ruled as hits by the rules back then.
I like the lesson of the story, you don't get the opportunity to be terrible at something unless you bring something to the table. Like those pitchers who lose 20 games, the fact that they keep trotting you out there every 5th day to accomplish that is pretty remarkable.
I was so taken aback when you put that random HIVEMIND clip lmaooooo. Last thing I expected to see in this video was Riley xD
Growing up in the '60s, the most notorious bad hitter was Ray Oyler. He was a good defensive shortstop with Detroit in the mid-60s but close to an automatic out at the plate. When the Tigers reached the 1968 World Series, Oyler was removed from the starting lineup in favor of Mickey Stanley, a fourth outfielder that could at least hit. Oyler was taken by Seattle in the 1969 expansion draft and finished his career with the Angels. In six seasons, he was .175/.258/.251/.508. On Baseball-Reference, Oyler's OWAR was -2.3 but his DWAR was 5.3, which was why he was able to play as long as he did.
I KNEW you'd talk about Bill Bergen. When I was looking to see how bad BJ Upton's season was some years ago, his name came up.
BJ Melvin Upton was absolutely HORRENDOUS during his time in Atlanta. I have never seen such a bad baseball player. As a diehard Braves fan, I thought we would never get out of his massive contract AND at the same time, we had to suffer through Dan Uggla..... talk about misery
Was that the classic “Steiner math” promo I saw? Good work!
Was not ready for the depth of the ending.
This should also be a stark reminder of how literally awesome Shohei Ohtani's 2021 was. The very best pitchers generally can't hit worth a poop and the very best hitters usually suck at pitching. But Shohei is stupidly good at both.
4:24 This conversation took place between Pedro Guerrero and Tommy Lasorda:
"Pedro, what are you thinking out in the field?"
"I'm thinking, please, God, don't let ball get hit to me."
"What else?"
"I'm also thinking, please, God, don't let ball get hit to Steve Sax."
First. Today is my birthday and I want to say thank you Mike. You are my favorite RUclipsr.
Me too. Happy birthday twin 🤞🏾
No way you threw a hive mind clip in there! I love both of the channels
John Coleman was not that bad. He pitched over 500 innings in one year. Players didn't use gloves then, and all of them pitched underhand. And he pitched several years after 1883 and did OK.
A much better example of the worst pitcher would be William Stecher. 0-10, 10.32 ERA in, you guessed it, 10 starts. 68 innings, 111 hits, 18 strikeouts, -2.9 WAR in his only MLB season, 1890.
And for someone a little more recent, how about this season?
4-7, 10.64 ERA, 19 games, 13 starts, 67.2 innings, 107 hits, 42 walks. -2.8 WAR.
Would you give him another chance after a season like that?
The Blue Jays did. Good thing. He won his first Cy Young three years later. Hall of Famer Roy Halladay.
Alan Travers! Lifetime ERA of 15.75.
Replacement pitcher for the Detroit Tigers in 1912 while the team staged a wildcat strike in opposition to Ty Cobb’s suspension for fighting (beating up, really) an unruly and disabled fan.
There’s no evidence that Travers, a Philadelphia resident, ever visited Detroit.
Not good at anything, baseball-wise that is - holds the distinction of being the only MLB pitcher to be ordained as a Roman Catholic priest, and he had a creditable 30+ year career as a high school teacher. So, as bad as he was as a pitcher, he pulled his weight as a human being.
Eddie Gaedel was probably the least physically qualified person to ever play, but he did have a lifetime OBP of 1.000 - which would be tough to beat.
Great message at the end. A lot of folks on social media should really think about that one.
Thought Ray Oyler might show up in this conversation. According to his Wikipedia page he holds the distinction as being the position player with the lowest career batting average in the modern era. (Minimum 1000 plate appearances)
Being a Tigers fan, I always knew he was a crap hitter but a good fielder. Glancing over his stats, I see he's actually a career 0.0 WAR player. He was a shortstop, so, he must've been an amazing fielder.
He played in 146 games in 1967, started 125, and had a FP of .964 with a RTot of 17. Not great but not terrible. He's my default guy when I hear "worst player ever." But yes, Anthony Young proves the "have to be good to be bad" axiom; in between all those consecutive Ls, he saved a bunch of games and I don't think he was ever sent down. Plus we now acknowledge more easily that Ws are a terrible pitcher's stat.
2:42 Ayy Hivemind
Thank you for the end message. I really needed to hear that at this point in my life
was not expecting to be teared up by this video but man, thank you. that was an amazing video.
It's rare to see anyone mention Pedro Guerrero these days. He was a monster hitter in his day. If you made any sort of mistake down in the strike zone you weren't getting that ball back.
In 1982, when the Dodgers lost Garvey and Cey, they should have put Guerrero at first and traded Greg Brock for a defense-first third baseman.
As soon as you opened with a "numbers don't lie" line I knew it was only a matter of time until Freakzilla made an appearance!
So since Bergen was a great catcher, does this mean that Andres Thomas was really the worst? I remember Thomas from my youth.
I was going to say the same thing. There are A LOT of defensive specialist catchers, and Bergen was one of the better ones of his era. Every single season he was at least at, but most often times above league average for throwing runners out. His worst performance ever was 45% in his final season, and that was still at or better than the rest of the league.
And that really means something because back then baseball was a small ball game. Stealing bases was a big part of the game.
Not So Fun Fact: Bill Bergen’s brother, Marty, was also a big league catcher from 1897-1899. He was apparently so skilled behind the plate, that even though he only played 3 seasons, he received a few Hall of Fame votes. Hurting his case, however, was the fact that in the 1899-1900 offseason, he murdered his wife and children before turning the axe (yes, axe) on himself.
Wow
he actually used a razor on himself and decapitated himself with such force that his head was nearly severed
0:00 You almost had me tripping I thought you were an IBFP fan! That's International Boxing Fans Podcast if you reading and curious. Funny and factual boxing info. Loved the vid! 8/8
Bill Bergen was also apparently really good at calling games for pitchers. What was the difference between pitchers' combined ERA when he was catching for them and when he wasn't?
Turns out men, women and numbers lie... I'm a hecking smug Enby right now!
I played D1 baseball, so next time you see me in Arby's complaining about a guy flailing at a pitch outside of the zone, I'll be saying that I could do better. It's important to know, I really can't. I tried, really hard. didn't happen.
My pitching coach was a pitcher in the steroid era, who pitched in the NL Central in 1998. He often is like yeah i had a bad career. he did have a negative career rWar and an 82 ERA+, but he also managed a 90 OPS+ across his career, he slashed .271/.364/.354 as a pitcher. thats why he stayed in the league for six years.
The HIVEMIND reference was Insane !!!!!!
fr fr I was like wtf thats riley
I remember Andres Thomas when I watched the Braves regularly in the eighties. I could never figure out why they continued to trot that guy out year after year.
How an obscure Mariners trade in ‘96 with the Twins broke an 85 year drought (David Arias trade) and prevented at least 5 icons of baseball from playing on the same team
Came here for a lesson on baseball , Left here with a lesson on life dang man good video
I was not expecting the end of the video on the worst baseball player ever to be so moving and beautiful.
Catcher, the only position in baseball where you can be so bad offensively but so good defensively and remain in the big leagues for a while!
Excellent video man, thanks for putting in the research
There was a time in baseball that SS and C were the worst hitters on most teams. Always your 7-8-9 hitters. Their glove is what made them special.
That ending was great! I appreciate it. :)
I had a stroke when you put a hive mind clip in this video my favorite YT channel
I grew up in rural Ga. during the '80s. Please let me forget that Andres Thomas played for my favorite sports team for SIX YEARS!!
SIX!!!
The one potential saving grace for Bergen is that more advanced defensive metrics most definitely didn't exist in his day -- especially the very recently emerging catcher framing metrics. Were he a Jose Molina (#2 of the 3 Molina brother catchers)-level framer, he might have approached RLP value
However, that could also be the thing that condemned him the most. Were he the Ryan Doumit of his day... well... maybe those people in Arby's would be correct about him.
Bucky McBadbat! 😂 thanks for the nostalgia
How about Juan Castro? -5.4 career WAR, yet managed to spend parts of 17 seasons in the bigs
Anytime Scott Steiner shows up in a video where you don't expect him, I get really happy. 😁
Hmmmm, wrong player. As a Twins fan, it's Miguel Sano. He's exactly the same as Mike Trout season over season but in reverse. Throw out 2019 because his lineup protection was beyond historical. He's only still on a major league roster because Twins ownership really doesn't want to do another David Ortiz.
Good video. Although the one problem with WAR is it's somewhat subjective.
what this video was amazing man what good research and a good message/ending man. thumbs up from me brotha.
Bill Bergen's brother Marty was the catcher who killed his family with an axe and then cut his own head off.
I talked to a meat slicer at Arby's and he said he'd be in MLB if he didn't cut off 3 of his fingers.
6:27 Can't argue with Big Poppa Pump
Good lord, a random Scott Steiner Math promo sighting.
Enzo Hernandez for the 1971 San Diego Padres had one of the all time weakest hitting seasons. In 143 games he hit 12 extra base hits 9 doubles and 3 triples and had only 12 RBI's!. He played pretty badly for about 6 seasons on offense. Although his defense wasn't that bad.
I think my favorite srs video/videos, would have to be the Manny Ramirez one, "Manny was well... Manny"
The worst players in any sport are always gonna be 10x better than the average joe
I saw Dan Meyer hit a homer at Old Comiskey Park!
I wondered how you were going to choose from the people who only took the field a few times, if that, in their entire careers. Which of the couple dozen pitchers with a lifetime ERA of infinity do you start with?
I’ve always read that Jeff Mathis is the career worst hitter in baseball history with a specific number of games or at bats. His 17 year career finished with a career 0.2 WAR and .194 batting average over 2,718 at bats. He had a career -6.4 OWAR. But to the video author’s point of still having value to someone… Jeff Mathis also made $22 million dollars to be a terrible hitter but respectable catcher. He did have a 12.6 career DWAR.
When I was a kid I played with someone who would flinch and duck if the ball was thrown or hit to him as a fielder but he could crush the ball. If our league had a DH and he didn’t have to play defence we would have gone undefeated every year. Playing OF didn’t matter because his throwing accuracy was pretty bad.
And if you put every single baseball player in the world, and put them in a spreadsheet. I'll be all the way at the bottom.
As someone who doesn't understand baseball in the slightest, I agree wholeheartedly.
Twins fan I immediately think of Nick Punto. Great glove but he was always in the lineup due to someone always being injured in the infield.
video in summary:
- baseball stats are pretty good for a sport
- you can tell from stats that a baseball player is good or bad
- if you know a baseball player is good or bad, you can find statistical evidence of it
- here are some players with really bad stats!! these players truly were the worst. stats don’t lie
- these players were still good at something
- the players earned their spot on a major league team
- however, they still were super bad because i said so and the stats are definitely not cherrypicked
Dan Meyer, Doug Flynn, Andres Thomas, those guys did benefit from being on teams that didn't have better options.
1883 - The Phils' first year in the NL. That explains why Coleman was hit around that year. That was one of the worst teams in Phils' history (17-81-1). UGH!!!
The saying means you have to be really good in one area or at something in order to be really bad in another or at something else. No one is gonna keep a really bad hitter unless they are a really good fielder. And vice versa. You have to be exceptional at something for them to keep you if you are horrible at another part.
The gold glove and Jeff Mathis mentioned halfway were obvious forshadowing. Players who were truly awful at everything would never get past the minor leagues. And since you were mentioning other sports, think back to the dark era of goon hockey in the 1970s and 1980s: many of the worst goons were still talented players in junior hockey, but they were pushed into it because there too many players and too few jobs. They didn't get to the NHL by accident, many had skill (see the linked video below). Paul Stewart, one of the worst goons of the Philadelphia Flyers went on to be a highly respected NHL referee.
I’m gonna show this to my coach to let him know that my horrible batting average isn’t everything
Forget the Mendoza Line. Why isn"t there a Bergen Line. Just goes to show that virtually all major league players have to bring something to the table.....
SRS watches Hivemind? Didn't expect that crossover but I'll take it
I was hoping to see the guy who pitched in the 30s(?), never recorded a single out and was pulled from the mound where he immediately went to the showers, left the ballpark and joined the Navy.
Loved the sopranos clip
So, I'm about to destroy your entire video concept here... Alan Travers. He was the worst player in big league history. And no, he wasn't good at all. He was the guy at Arby's. He never made a Major League team. He never made a minor league team. He couldn't make his local college team - He was their equipment manager. And yet, he has one start for The Tigers because the team was on strike and they needed to find someone to play.
Well over 20, 000 people have played MLB... but that's still a pretty small town.
Interesting stuff, great vid!
"Runs are how you score in baseball"
The hell you say...
Now try recreating this guy in MLB The Show and play and full game with him.
Andrés Thomas had compromising pics of the Braves GM.
Technically the only complex number in baseball is the number of World Series the Mariners have won, because I dreamed one night that they had won the World Series, so they have one imaginary win and zero real wins.
The Scott Steiner killed me right there.
“You know they say that all men are created equal, but you look at me and you look at Samoa Joe and you can see that statement is not true. See, normally if you go one on one with another wrestler, you got a 50/50 chance of winning. But I'm a genetic freak and I'm not normal! So you got a 25%, AT BEST, at beat me. Then you add Kurt Angle to the mix, your chances of winning drastic go down. See the 3 way at Sacrifice, you got a 33 1/3 chance of winning, but I, I got a 66 and 2/3 chance of winning, because Kurt Angle KNOWS he can't beat me and he's not even gonna try!
So Samoa Joe, you take your 33 1/3 chance, minus my 25% chance and you got an 8 1/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. But then you take my 75% chance of winning, if we was to go one on one, and then add 66 2/3 per cents, I got 141 2/3 chance of winning at Sacrifice. See Joe, the numbers don't lie, and they spell disaster for you at Sacrifice.
See, but I'm gonna break it down for all you ladies. Would you rather be with me? Or would you rather be with Joe?”
Only the greatest promo ever
I got 141 and 2/3's chance of winning. lmao Samoa Joe had no chance.
Loved the Sopranos cut
I was wondering when Mathis would be brought up, not because he's a terrible player but bc his offense is up there when we're talking the worst.
Also aside: feel like we should always give like a "worst" before & after the live ball era
@@CyberchaoX honestly the more I start thinking about it the more I agree.
yeah I do like looking at live ball and dead ball differently, but it always feels like apples and oranges to compare guys who played in the last 50 years to dead ball era guys who existed before like actual professionalization and standardized training...but that means replacement level would be less trained aka worse
I DARE you to find something that Tsuyoshi Nishioka was good at
maybe that guy at arbys brings work ethic and composure to the clubhouse. everyone has value
That ending was perfect, very inspiring
Another not so great hitting baseball player was John McDonald comes to mind too, great defensive player, but not in the lineup for his hitting.
“Everyone has value..” except Roberto Alomar.
ed kranepool is probably the least valuable player to have over 5000 plate appearances. 5.8 career offensive war with negative 11 defensive war. so... below replacement performance and the mets kept him around for 18 years on the grounds that the fans like him, and he can hit a right-hander. .693 ops and as slow as anyone youve ever seen. first baseman who could neither field with any range, hit with power, draw walks, hit a left-hander, or score from first on a triple.