In case you're curious... here's every trade since 1975 by team... docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wm4qezDmKzZXjHXQNmfKwNfHiiI6AIdKsYagtwmTko8/edit?usp=sharing
I think the yordan trade would eventually be #1 lopsided trade in baseball history for the simple fact that josh fields gave up back to back homers in the WS against THE exact team that traded him to the dodgers, with THE faces of the organization in altuve and correa hitting them, and yordan being a postseason hero with the biggest HR in astros history while being compared to big papi on a continuous basis and dusty baker comparing him to hank aaron and bonds arguably the two best players (and dusty is THE ONLY one who really knows hank aaron and bonds more than anyone)
As lifelong Cleveland fan it’s cool to see someone beyond Cleveland media talk about how good they are at trades. They have even more like Omar Vizquel for Felix Ferman and Reggie Jefferson, Emmanuel Clase for Corey Kluber, and CC Sabathia as rental to Milwaukee for Michael Brantley.
Omar should be there too... I get it he isn't a nice guy. But it's a HOF for Baseball not being a good guy. His numbers are better then Ozzie Smith in just about every category. He is the best (defensive) short stop of all time.
Got buried in name recognition because of Belle, Thome, Alomar., etc. I think he probably had as much impact upon every game he played in than 30% of those in the Hall. His bat, glove, legs, etc. were all + factors.
It's a pretty good one, but Meadows is already on a different team and Glasnow hasn't pitched over 90 innings in a season with the Rays and they only have one year of control left so there's no shot it makes the list in the future unless Baz becomes a perennial Cy Young candidate. Another that was considered but just missed out was the Max Fried trade for the Braves.
Glad the Rays/Pirates deal wasn't on here. It's on every other one of these lists of worst trades ever. I'd rather here about some other trades than seeing another rehash of the same "worst trades of all time" list that every other baseball/sports channel has already done. Watch a few of these worst trade videos and you can pretty much guess which trades are gonna be on damn near every list. Was pleasantly surprised when that one wasn't on here.
Rays fan here; I’d have to disagree tho bro because Archer was actually coming off 2 good years for us before we traded him; I think our front office just made a guess on what was going to happen to him
Ah, finally, someone else who share's my disappointment that Kenny Lofton fell off the ballot his first year. Was a very strong ballot that year, granted, but it's still a major letdown. Would appreciate it if the eras committee could give him some love next time they're covering the 90s. Man, Philadelphia sports fans are vicious.
Pardon us for wanting to win. Abreu, as was said, was all about him but fun fact, he was greeted warmly a couple of years ago when he was put on the Phillies Wall of Fame, the most underserving player ever to get that honor.
Bernie Williams, Jim Edmonds, and a few others all got on the ballot around this time and got no traction because this was the most loaded ballot of all-time: in 2013, Craig Biggio, Jack Morris, Jeff Bagwell, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, and Fred McGriff were all future electees but ranged from garnering 68 to 21 percent of the electorate. Of course, Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds and Curt Schilling were also debuting in 2013, and Dale Murphy got 19 percent in his final eligible year. By 2016, when Edmonds went one-and-done with only 2.5 percent, there had also been added Mike Mussina, Jeff Kent, Ken Griffey Jr (with a then-record 99.3 percent of all ballots), Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz.
The 1986-87 Offseason for the Pirates is probably one of the best in their history. After going 64-98 in 1986, the Pirates made two trades that changed the franchise, one was the April 1st trade of Tony Peña to the Cardinals for Andy Van Slyke, Mike LaValleire and Mike Dunne. The other was day before Thanksgiving trade of Rick Rhoden, Cecilio Guante and Pat Clements to the Yankees for Doug Drabek, Logan Easley and Brian Fisher. Getting Van Slyke, LaValliere and Drabek drastically changed the franchise and helped turn them from a laughing stock in 1985 to a contender by 1988.
The wild thing not mentioned here is that the Bartolo Colon to Montreal trade is still benefiting Cleveland to this day. Cliff Lee was later traded to the Phillies for 4 players, including Carlos Carrasco in 2009. Fast forward to 2021: Carrasco is traded by Cleveland to the Mets with Francisco Lindor for 4 players, 2 of which are current Guardians players Andres Gimenez and Amed Rosario
My Indians/Guardians have historically made tremendously good deals since the 90s. Our front office is just good at knowing when to ship out players at the right time while getting great prospects and properly developing those prospects. It’s just we don’t have the cash (or the owner isn’t willing to fork it out) to keep those guys when their contracts go up.
There was a really great Jonah Keri article on Grantland that went over in detail how the Indians were great at trades, but awful at drafting. They made two separate trades of shitty platoon 1Bs to Seattle and landed Shin Soo Choo and Asdrubal Cabrera!
You better watch your mouth punk!! It's GUARDIANS son!!! That other word is a symbol of you being races and sexism!! A real man would apologize but you're just a stupid boy. Prolly gonna get gRaped by his uncle tonight.
As someone who is a Clevelander, I knew the Indians/Guardians were going to be on it the most out of all teams as the winner. they have an uncanny talent to use their good players to their max, and then trade them, and they are never the same once they leave. Pitchers in general they do this with, and they rarely are the loser in the trade. It's absolutely amazing they have this knack with pitchers. they have a good/all-star pitcher, use him, and then trade him away, and almost always win the trade.
Wow.... a Clevelander who is actually capable of reading well enough to leave a youtube comment... impressive. Isn't it something like only 3.5% of Cleveland residents are functionally literate? Or is it less? I think it might be less. Cleveland is a really, really stupid town.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Better than whatever asian gibberish you call a youtube channel name. Aren't you supposed to be eating cats and living in squalor with the other asians?
I still feel like the Miggy trade should be on here even though the Tigers signed him to a contract extension right after Marlins trading a player who would go on to almost win two consecutive Triple Crowns among many many other accolades and already had 19.5 WAR for a combined -0.7 WAR worth of players
Worth noting, part of the reason the Red Sox traded Bagwell was because they had a young Mo Vaughn competing to be their first baseman of the future, and he may not have been a hall of famer but he was pretty darn good in his own right. Doesn't excuse the bad trade, but still. Sometimes the players traded themselves aren't the whole story.
Vaughn probably would have been HOF if he had not been injured shortly after going to the Mets. Dude had one of the most ridiculous 4 year tears in MLB history.
@@sams5780 Correct. Bagwell's glove at third was suspect, and Boston wanted to move him from third, but he didn't have the arm for RF/LF, and 1B was Vaughn. He was a player without a position for them.
Funny story about the Lowe/Varitek deal. When they were negotiating a deal with Seattle, they said they wanted either Lowe or Varitek. But Seattle misheard them as wanting both, and were so desperate for a bullpen arm, they did it anyways. They also dealt top prospect Jose Cruz Jr for Mike Timlin. That shows how desperate they were for arms.
It’s both what they gave up but also what they got in return. Everyone in baseball knew Slocumb was a joke. If they’d have given up Lowe and Varitek for say….Butch Henry and Jim Corsi (both serviceable middle relievers), they’d have still overpaid, but they’d at least have guys that could stabilize their bullpen. Then with Jose Cruz, instead of Timlin and Paul Spoljaric, if you’re set on getting a closer, ask for Paul Quantrill instead. Again, overpaying? Yes, but you’re getting something serviceable in return, and now they’re actually set up to make some noise in the post seasonz
Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb always gets the attention, but that trade is at least partially balanced out by Seattle absolutely fleecing Boston when they acquired Jamie Moyer for Darren Bragg the previous year. The Mariners saw a net of 28 WAR over Moyer’s career, and only King Felix and Randy Johnson have higher career pitching WAR in club history.
@@54raynor Even though I wasn't born till 2000, Moyer has always been one of my all time favorite pitchers. Is insane to imagine just how stacked that 2003 Red Sox staff would've been with Moyer.
Thank you for putting that royals and brewers trade on here with Greinke. That trade had such an insane impact on the royals World Series that I actually go back to look at it again every now and then. Greinke did not want to be in KC anymore and getting two everyday position players who were absolute studs on defend at CENTERFIELD AND SHORTSTOP it doesn’t get much better than that. I wasn’t crying for Cain, but he really should have won a gold glove
The thing about that trade was that the Brewers really needed to make it. They'd just signed Braun to a large extension, and Prince Fielder was in his last contract year with the Brewers, and the Brewers just weren't going the afford the money he was going to command. It was a "win now" trade, and Greinke was a real fan-favorite, and he never lost in Miller Park as a Brewer. Had it not been for Marcum being completely burned out from September on, that Brewers team's probably in the World Series.
@@Tyrunner0097Not to mention that trading Greinke later on also netted Milwaukee Jean Segura, who was the flipped later on for a few nice seasons of Chase Anderson.
Thanks for the shout-out to Lou Whitaker. Baffling how sweet Lou wasn't enshrined in Cooperstown the same year as his double play partner, the great Alan Trammell. Also agree on Dave Steib and Curt Flood. Personally, I'd also love to see Tim Lincecum and Dale Murphy voted in. I'm more about peak performance determining HoF status, rather than a 15-16 year career with 7-8 all star appearances- which seems to be the current metric.
I disagree on Lincecum. He only had maybe 5 6 years of peak production then he just fell apart. If he went say 10 years and he didn't fall off like he did I agree.
Yeah but if we start voting in every guy who has a good handful of prime seasons, they'll be voting in a dozen guys every year and that's not even mentioning the couple hundred current retired players from the past 150 years who also fit that criteria. No matter what the criteria there are always gonna be the guys who end up on the borderline and don't get in.
I love that the Padres got Fred McGriff in return for Carter, then traded him to the Braves a few years later for virtually zero return. They had historically bad trades on both ends! 😂
One that’s really fascinating for me was the Delmon Young trade for Rays. It’s interesting because the trade itself generated about 18.4 net bwar for the Rays, but being the Rays they just kept trading the pieces they got and that series of trades is still generating bwar for Rays right now. Essentially they got Garza and Bartlett, who led their 08 WS run, and then they traded Garza for Archer, Archer for Glasnow, Meadows and Baz, and then Meadows for Parades. Parades is looking great for Rays right now too. When I try to add everything up, Rays got 54.2 bwar out of these trades and only gave up 17.5, and it’s still counting because Parades, Glasnow and Baz are still playing, and you know they will trade them in the future. And they also saved about 34 million dollars. Honestly only the Rays can do this😂 and I’m so curious how this will pan out in the next 15 years.
In straight 1 for 1 trades, the Pirates trading Jose Bautista to the Jays for a PTBNL that turned out to be Robinson Díaz is a pretty good haul for the Jays. Bautista put up over 18 bWAR in 2009-2011 over his last years of team control. Díaz was out of the majors after putting up just 0.5 in 2009.
I was nervous if I included that Philly fans tend to dislike Abreu that I'd have a bunch of Philly fans in the comments telling me that isn't the case. That hasn't happened at all.
Before the '91 season, the Orioles traded for Glenn Davis of the Astros. They gave up Pete Harnisch, who would go on to have a mildly productive major league career, Steve Finley, who had a very nice career as a major league outfielder, and Curt Schilling. Harnisch went on to produce 17.8 WAR after the trade, Finley went on to produce 43.5 WAR after the trade, and Schilling went on to produce 88.8 WAR after the trade. So the Orioles gave up 150.1 future WAR. Harnisch made one all-star team, Finley won 5 gold gloves, made two all-star teams, and twice was in the top 15 of MVP votes, and of course Schilling, who made 6 all-star teams, finished second in the Cy Young voting 3 times, fourth once, four times finished in the top 15 of MVP voting, and may have been the best post-season pitcher of all-time. He also I think has the best K/BB ratio in baseball history, if I am not mistaken. Meanwhile, the Orioles got 3 injury-plagued seasons which totaled 185 games, including once getting injured by a batted ball at a game while sitting on the bench, and once in a barroom brawl, produced 0.7 WAR total over those three years, and then was out of baseball. He was a phenomenal player for the Astros before the Orioles got him, but the Orioles would have been better off keeping any of the three that they had over Davis, most especially the Hall-of-Fame worthy Schilling. Edit: I know the cutoff was team control for this video, but the rules of this video don't tell the whole story either. I believe this was the worst trade in baseball history since Harry Frazee sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees for a failed theatrical play.
@@neilbeigie4045 I don't think it 'made up for it'. The Orioles traded 150.1 future WAR for 0.7 WAR spread over three seasons. Bedard was very good but he only produced 17.4 WAR over his career, marginally more than Harnisch, including 12.7 WAR over 5 seasons with Baltimore.
@@neilbeigie4045 That trade came 15+ years later. Making up for it would be making trade after that season so next years team at least got players to make up for losing those 3. Its worst Trade in Baltimore Orioles History !! As a kid Finely was becoming my favorite player, after Cal Ripken of course, and was shocked when that happened!!
I'm surprised I hadn't found your channel until now, you deserve way more subscribers. I'm positive you'll get there, this is quality baseball content.
How does the Ivan Dejesus to the Phillies for Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg not make this list? And fun fact: Even Larry Anderson makes fun of that trade. He also went on to help the Phillies to a pennant in 1993.
props to u for shouting out 1975 … curt flood, marvin miller, pete seitz and andy messersmith were essentially responsible for why today’s players can make 300M contracts and why our offseasons and trade deadlines are so much fun talking about big moves 👌🏼 also 21 should be retired in baseball not only bc of clemente but also bc of curt flood. he’s the reason why many athletes around the world in many different sports can become rich playing ball.
@@BaseballsNotDead black history month yet I still haven’t heard his name being mentioned. I have been following baseball for over 20 years yet didn’t become fully aware of why he is so important until last year. baseball needs to do a much better job marketing him and teaching fans the history bc he’s important not only for baseball but also for labor laws.
@@justinllamas1 it’s no coincidence that the MLB doesn’t want to emphasize his legacy. The reason Marvin Miller was only elected to the Hall of Fame recently was that he and Flood were the men most responsible for getting ballplayers their fair share, and the owners still resent them for it. The likes of Jerry Reinsdorf are still around, and even after Flood and Miller won players the right to free agency, the owners colluded for years to prevent them from realizing their value. It’s a shame they’ll never get their due respect from the establishment, but they’ve helped the game more than almost anyone else
Visuals on this are some of the best i’ve seen on youtube. Live side by side window feeds w/ player statistics is a pretty ingenious layout for this subject
New subscriber here - really enjoy your content. Not just hot takes / reactions with no context, but well-researched and informative dives into the Show. Well done!
I'm surprised not to see the Giants/Twins swap of Francisco Liriano and Joe Nathan for AJ Pierzynski on this list. Was it because of the team control rule?
Cleveland has had great front office and management forever, just sad they dont have a big enough market to finance the talent to win big consistently. We see so much talent come through here. J Ram is a treasure for playing for what he does.
Not good enough numbers to get in the HoF. His accomplishments with regards to how he changed free agency IS covered at the HoF, it's not like there's no mention of the impact he had. But he doesn't get a bust in the actual part of the hall meant to honor the best players (and umps, managers, execs, ect.) that have ever played/been involved in baseball. A career WAR in the low 40's, 3 all stars, 7 fold gloves, 2 WS rings, sorry but nothing about that screams HOF worthy. Good player, sure, and had an impact on the history of the game, but not one of the greatest to ever be in the game.
@@unkledoda420 Best doesn’t always mean statistical. They use non-statistical reasons all the time, why not here too? My point wasn’t that he has HoF statistics, it’s that he had very good statistics, in a career that was cut short because his fight for free agency, to go along with the significants of his fight, which should get him enshrined.
@@BaseballsNotDead I looked up and Flood’s numbers, and nah, he doesn’t belong in the Hall. He had one great season in 1964, but overall he was just kinda good, finishing below the Rule of 2000 with a bWAR of under 42. I can see the case for Dave Stieb though, and Kenny Lofton is one of the biggest snubs of all time (Lou Whitaker is the biggest non-steroid one).
When I think Flood should be in the Hall it is not for his statistical output. He is easily the most important player in the last 50 years of baseball and reshaped how the game works today. About 7 videos I've made about player contracts and service time wouldn't exist without Curt Flood doing what he did. They specifically have a "pioneer" category for Hall of Fame inductions, and that's what Flood should go in as.
2013 Braves - Diamondbacks trade: J.Upton was great for us, but not many people remember that we also got Chris Johnson in that deal, and he almost won the batting title that same year. We definitely won that trade.
Great video. Interesting how many trades really come down to what we need now vs. what might happen in the future. I remember listening to a lively discussion among two of my friends, both avid baseball fans. One guy asked the other the following five-year hypothetical: Scenario A, 100 percent you win ring in the first year but your team misses the playoffs in each of the next four; versus Scenario B, you make the playoffs in each of the next five years but with no guarantee of a championship. They were split on the two, and each made a pretty good case for his side. Also, are we sure Cuellar isn't pronounced "KWAY-ahr?" I know that's how Mike said it, not sure about Bobby.
I think it's important to note that Bagwell had a lot of detractors at the time. Many thought he had no chance to make the majors, let alone be a star. Bob Watson believed in him and staked his whole career on this trade.
He was never convicted for sex crimes until his 7th season, it was all hearsay and baseless accusations until then. Even after he was put on the list, it was totes BS because first off.... he was 13, it's not like he was some 12 year old kid, he was at least a teen.... and second off, that little punk was totes asking for it!! JB did nothing wrong and should be taken off the offender list as soon as possible son!!!
Fantastic video, and as usual I really appreciate both your methodology and your delivery. But as a crusty 40-something lifetime baseball fan, what really makes me appreciate your videos is getting pretty much every name right. I hate watching younger RUclipsrs who straight up butcher pronunciations. I know proper nouns are hard to pronounce because there are basically no rules (Looking at you Coach K) but there are usually hundreds of videos available of broadcasters saying the players names!. Anyway... sorry for my rant, and keep up the great work.
If you look in the comments I definitely butchered a few, but I do make every effort to try to get them right. Was even looking up some minor league media guides to see if they had pronunciation guides for a few players that never hit the majors, but even then I still flubbed about 3 or 4 in this video (Medich, Cueller, Rohde). Also massively messed up saying Kluber went to Tigers instead of Rangers.
Grady was one I wished we could have seen play a 15 year career. That list can be long, but for active and players we saw, my top 3 are Bo Jackson, Griffey Jr and Mantle. I know Griffey and Mantle played great, but without injuries, how much better could it have been..
Genuinely did not expect my Astros to be on this list, good or bad, THAT many times. I didn’t even know we once had Zobrist and Santana, that’s just unreal.
The 'stro(ke)s ought to have their own list for being the dumbest MLB franchise with the highest rate of full-blown mental retardation amongst it's fanbase.
@@thatalleycat I’m actually a Houston native who’s been on and off the team since they won their NL pennant in 2005, when I was seven years old. Carry on.
surprised my Mariners weren't on here more. Even more surprised to see them on the plus side for one of the trades. I knew that Varitek/Lowe trade would be on here. A little surprised the Adam Jones for Erik Bedard trade wasn't on here. It wouldn't have counted based on your analysis, but we also traded David Ortiz (but this was a number of years before he would break out).
The Bedard Trade has a huge Asterisk. Bedard was great when he was on the field. He just couldn't stay healthy...and Adam Jones became a contract albatross for the Orioles.
Four Cardinals trades that come to mind 1. The Yankees trade minor league OF Willie McGee to the Cardinals for pitcher Bob Sykes. 2. The Cardinals sent over former first-round draft pick J.D. Drew and backup catcher/utility fielder Eli Marrero for young starting pitcher Jason Marquis, southpaw reliever Ray King and then Double-A pitching prospect Adam Wainwright. 3. Phillies trade Scott Rolen to the St. Louis Cardinals in exchange for Placido Polanco, Bud Smith, and Mike Timlin. 4. Jim Edmonds became a St. Louis Cardinal in a deal that sent pitcher Kent Bottenfield and second base prospect Adam Kennedy to the Angels.
One thing to be proud to be an Indians/Guards fan for I guess lol Also, I can't believe we gave up Brandon Phillips so easily, and it sucks so hard that Sizemore got injured so young. Absolutely nuts
What bothers me is how highly touted both Andy Marte and Matt LaPorta were and they had glashes and then disappeared. Some of the Cleveland trades could have been even better.
As an Englishman that has loved cricket all my life thanks to your channel have now found myself watching baseball too thanks 👍 great videos loving learning more about the history of it
So if Cleveland makes a trade, it will end up looking really good in 2-3 years. Be worried when your team makes a trade with the Guardians baseball fans 😂
I was born in Cleveland and still live there. First off Lofton isn't in the HOF because it's the Indians, second that whole late 90s team is filled with what should be HOFers. Never will forget my childhood with that team. Grady, man I'll never forget a game against KC, when Grady hits a home run in the 1st and the Indians were on such a hitting streak, that he made 2 plate appearances in the 1st inning. They beat KC 12-1 at home, and it was on Grady blanket night, still have the blanket. Then Kluber, man, I will never forget the 2016 indians. Kluber, Tomlin, Miller, Bauer... The pitching was on fire. I love Cleveland baseball. Everything they have done since the early 90s has been amazing to watch. One day we will win the WS.
One side note I always had on the Bagwell trade. He was considered expendable by the Red Sox because they were setting themselves up with Mo Vaughn.... Still a lopsided trade, but it adds to the context on why the Red Sox made the trade. also, I'm interested, what was the WAR value of CC Sabathia to the Brewers? I know its hard to measure what that meant to Milwaukee
Bagwell was also a 3rd baseman in the Sox minor leagues and was blocked by Wade Boggs, Tim Naehring, and Scott Cooper. At first base, he was blocked by Carlos Quintana and Mo Vaughn. By the end of 1997 only Vaughn was still on the Sox
What size drawers do you think Mo Vaugh was wearing? They had to be double XL at least you would think. I bet they got real filthy real fast. The smell coming out of his trousers was probably close to unbearable. Imagine the skid marks he was leaving!! What is just a skid mark to Mo Vaughn is almost a full load for a normal-sized human being. I'd pay money to get the inside track on one of his bowel movements, you know what I'm saying Carl?
I will say one thing about that Fields Yordan trade is there is one thing about it in which the Dodgers lost on both sides one being you gave up Yordan but on the Fields side is an intresting one. Fields played 3 years for the team but season worth that was about two season and they were pretty good with him getting better each year but where the Dodgers lose here is GM 2 2017 WS. In Game 2 the game went into extra innings and Fields come in he only saw 3 batters before getting pulled which ended up in back to back home runs and a double (while nothing came out of the double that is still bad). The dodgers in the bottom of that inning get two runs of their own meaning without Fields the Dodgers win game 2 and win the series in 6 but that didn't happen as the Astros would end up taking game 2 winning the series in 7 and that's how you make a trade and lose both ways.
You might have to put a 5th Cleveland trade on this list later. Mike Clevinger and Greg Allen to the Padres for Josh Naylor, Cal Quantrill, Owen Miller, Gabriel Arias, Austin Hedges, and Joey Cantillo
Already at +5.5 bWAR for the Guardians. Hedges and Miller have already gone to another team, Naylor has 3 more years of team control and Quantrill has 3 as well. It's going to come down to Arias and Cantillo.
If any recent Cleveland trade was to show up it would probably be the Lindor trade. Cleveland traded 1 year of Lindor and 3 years of Carlos Carrasco for 6 years of Andres Gimenez, 3 years of Amed Rosario, and prospects Josh Wolf and Isaiah Greene. The deal is already +10.8 bWAR for Cleveland and they still have 1 year of Rosario and 4 years of Gimenez compared to the Mets 1 year of Carrasco. Now both Wolf and Greene could potentially add to that but their both very far from the majors and neither have amazing scout grades so they likely won’t contribute much if at all. Now I don’t think the Mets would take back the deal because it allowed them to extend Lindor for the rest of his career but by the methodology used in this video it is already a slam dunk for Cleveland and could get better. The only other deal for Cleveland that might show up is Junior Caminero for Tobias Myers. But for our sake I hope that one doesn’t happen.
Not sure if it will be on here since Gallen was then moved to Arizona, but the Cardinals trading Sandy Alcantara, Zac Gallen and 2 other players to Miami for Marcel Ozuna could be there soon. Alcantara alone has 3 times the WAR that Ozuna brought to the Cardinals.
The trade that always comes to mind when talking about lopsided trades is mark texiera for Elvis Andrus, Neftalí Feliz, Matt Harrison, and jarrod saltalamachia. Braves got like 2 half seasons out of texiera meanwhile rangers got 3 allstars that helped put them in the World Series twice
When I was compiling all of these I went in alphabetical order... so the Braves were right after Arizona. That Teixeira trade was up near the top of the list for a while but just missed out in the end. Ended up at 28.2 net WAR.
Lofton only got 3% of the vote because he was on the ballot with other 1st yr guys like Bonds and Clemens. Writers boycotted their vote and by doing so kicked Kenny off the ballot after one year.
Seeing the Ben Zobrist (?) flip made me think about seeing him play all 9 positions against the twins in Minneapolis a while back (2019 I think). Was kinda of a throw away game but it was pretty cool to see happen live.
Lofton was one of the most exciting players to ever play baseball. He was capable of scoring a run without the team getting a hit. It is an absolute travesty that he isn't in the hall for fans of baseball to marvel at his tremendous skills.
He also made/makes adult videotapes under the name Kyle Lowdown. Some pretty "classy" stuff. Kenny was gifted with more than one talent son. Though I heard in game 4 of NLCS he had visible sea men stains on his trousers that you could see while he was playing. a
I'm still trying to figure out why Dwight Evans and Bill Buckner aren't in. I know Buckner is known for his gaffe in world series, but look at his numbers. Dwight Evans numbers have similarities to lofton. 8 gold gloves. And arguably the best arm ever
Hindsight is 20/20, but if the Astros didnt make that Randy Johnson trade, it would have helped them not suffer from that pitcher deficient 2000 season. They had 4 guys with an OPS+ of 130 and still went 72-90 because their pitching was that bad.
Was kinda surprised the Jake Arrieta trade didn’t make the cut till I looked at the baseball reference page and realize Pedro Strop didn’t have as high a WAR as I expected. Net difference of 23.8 bWAR tho, gotta be the smartest/luckiest trade Cubs made on the road to 2016
I may be wrong(and if I am ignore this), but I think you are only counting WAR a player accrued on the team that traded from him in the deal. I think that sells trades short, because it doesnt account for what they got when the player left, and either way the subsequent move doesn't make the trade less lopsided. I like the logic you used in the draft video better where you only counted the WAR during controllable years a because those years are what you get via the draft. If I drafted Mike Trout and traded him for Phil Gosselin, that doesn't make the draft pick not a phenomenal pick anymore, and I feel the same about the trades. Still a great video, love the content!
No, you're right. There's different ways to analyze trades and all have their plusses and minuses. There's also digging into trade trees (you trade for a player then if you trade them down the line you should probably get the incoming player value) but they all come with their different complexities and downsides. Ultimately, I had to go with one method and stick to it... and since it took about 60 hours to go through every trade, didn't really want to open pandora's box and start analyzing different ways. Ultimately, there are downsides to how I'm analyzing it, but that's true for any method. This is the one I finally went with.
the real crazy thing about 3 of Cleveland's 4 appearances on this list, is that when those trades were made, fans were livid! "we traded Westbrook?!?!? for WHO?!?!?!?!?" "oh man, it's gonna suck watching Carter hit dingers for some other team..." "if we didn't get something good for Bartolo I'm quitting this team!" if only we knew...
About Lofton - he fell off the ballot after one year because he retired in 2007, the same year as Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, PIazza. And as such, he was eligible for the hall of fame in the same year as them. Unfortunately, that was the year the writers threw a hissy fit about steroids and didn't vote anyone into the hall of fame, and vote numbers were down for everybody. Lofton was an unfortunate casualty, and dropped off the ballot
Even with the marlins trading gallen to the diamondbacks, the Ozuna for Alcantara trade could end up on this list. It almost certainly will if you count Jazz as part of the marlins value since he was swapped for gallen
That level of obvious tanking by the Rockies should be considered a form of ownership point shaving and carry a prison sentence or a heavy fine. It's a form of defrauding the fanbase.
The one trade that should have been on here but could not be since it happened prior to 1975 is the blockbuster 1971 trade where the Angels sent shortstop Jim Fregosi to the Mets for Nolan Ryan, who would turn into the best pitcher in Major League history with 7 no hitters and 5,714 strikeouts.
@Curtis Rapp If Ryan doesn't fill that spot, than who does? A big part of what puts Ryan in that spot for me is his endurance, work ethic, and consistency. He worked hard to pitch that long and he was incredibly good a lot longer than most guys, which deserves a lot of respect and props.
@@daytongifford4900 it deserves all the respect in the world, you’re right. But don’t forget he has the most BB right next to the most K’s. Greg Maddux is a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan.
I'm surprised the Mark Langston for Randy Johnson trade didn't make the list. I'm assuming the team control aspect is the reason, but the Mariners really hit huge on both ends of the Randy Johnson trades.
As a Cleveland fan I’m pleasantly surprised you had all those trades of ours on there even though they deserved to be. Honestly, not to be greedy but the Omar trade could’ve been on there to.
The team control rule brings it down to 25.7. Cubs only get the first 6 years of Sandberg (rest was an extension) which was 27.1. Larry Bowa adds 1.5. Ivan de Jesus takes away 2.9.
“Imagine the 1999 Red Sox with prime Nomar and Bagwell in the middle of their lineup, and Pedro as the ace of the staff. That team would be scary.” Still wouldn’t have beaten the Yankees, though.
@@BaseballsNotDead Better pitching depth would have helped them better considering washed up leftovers of what used to be Saberhagen being their second best pitcher was an indication of their rotation outside of Pedro.
I met Bobby Abreu in 2011 at Angels Spring Training I'm Phoenix which was in walking distance from my apt. He signed my Yankees shirt. Super chill. Spring training was the best
I remember when Bobby Abrea competed in the HR derby and it ruined his swing.. And everyone was afraid of their teams players competing in the derby and f*cking up their swing for years after.
It didn’t ruin his swing tho. He had solid numbers for a few years after that. I remember people talking about it but I don’t think there’s any truth to it
In case you're curious... here's every trade since 1975 by team... docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Wm4qezDmKzZXjHXQNmfKwNfHiiI6AIdKsYagtwmTko8/edit?usp=sharing
Seeing all those negative WAR values for Tigers trades hurts so much
The bagwell trade was unexpected for him to break considering Scott cooper made 2 all star appearances
I think the yordan trade would eventually be #1 lopsided trade in baseball history for the simple fact that josh fields gave up back to back homers in the WS against THE exact team that traded him to the dodgers, with THE faces of the organization in altuve and correa hitting them, and yordan being a postseason hero with the biggest HR in astros history while being compared to big papi on a continuous basis and dusty baker comparing him to hank aaron and bonds arguably the two best players (and dusty is THE ONLY one who really knows hank aaron and bonds more than anyone)
As lifelong Cleveland fan it’s cool to see someone beyond Cleveland media talk about how good they are at trades. They have even more like Omar Vizquel for Felix Ferman and Reggie Jefferson, Emmanuel Clase for Corey Kluber, and CC Sabathia as rental to Milwaukee for Michael Brantley.
Sport of dirt merchants and 🐒
Kenny Lofton not being in the HOF shows just how broken the system is. Dude was an absolute MONSTER.
Omar should be there too... I get it he isn't a nice guy. But it's a HOF for Baseball not being a good guy. His numbers are better then Ozzie Smith in just about every category. He is the best (defensive) short stop of all time.
I was at a game v Boston and if I remember right, I watched Mr Lofton steal 4 bases. Not once did Boston come close in tagging him out.
The best base stealer not named Ricky Henderson
Got buried in name recognition because of Belle, Thome, Alomar., etc. I think he probably had as much impact upon every game he played in than 30% of those in the Hall. His bat, glove, legs, etc. were all + factors.
@@ck-1649 nah the best base stealer not named ricky henderson is prolly rickey henderson
An honorable mention could be the rays and pirates deal, where the rays got Austin meadows and Tyler Glasnow for a washed up Chris Archer
It's a pretty good one, but Meadows is already on a different team and Glasnow hasn't pitched over 90 innings in a season with the Rays and they only have one year of control left so there's no shot it makes the list in the future unless Baz becomes a perennial Cy Young candidate.
Another that was considered but just missed out was the Max Fried trade for the Braves.
Good homework!
@@BaseballsNotDead yeah maybe you could make a part 2 with the fried trade
Glad the Rays/Pirates deal wasn't on here. It's on every other one of these lists of worst trades ever. I'd rather here about some other trades than seeing another rehash of the same "worst trades of all time" list that every other baseball/sports channel has already done. Watch a few of these worst trade videos and you can pretty much guess which trades are gonna be on damn near every list. Was pleasantly surprised when that one wasn't on here.
Rays fan here; I’d have to disagree tho bro because Archer was actually coming off 2 good years for us before we traded him; I think our front office just made a guess on what was going to happen to him
Ah, finally, someone else who share's my disappointment that Kenny Lofton fell off the ballot his first year. Was a very strong ballot that year, granted, but it's still a major letdown. Would appreciate it if the eras committee could give him some love next time they're covering the 90s.
Man, Philadelphia sports fans are vicious.
Pardon us for wanting to win. Abreu, as was said, was all about him but fun fact, he was greeted warmly a couple of years ago when he was put on the Phillies Wall of Fame, the most underserving player ever to get that honor.
Bernie Williams, Jim Edmonds, and a few others all got on the ballot around this time and got no traction because this was the most loaded ballot of all-time: in 2013, Craig Biggio, Jack Morris, Jeff Bagwell, Mike Piazza, Tim Raines, Lee Smith, Edgar Martinez, Alan Trammell, Larry Walker, and Fred McGriff were all future electees but ranged from garnering 68 to 21 percent of the electorate. Of course, Roger Clemens and Barry Bonds and Curt Schilling were also debuting in 2013, and Dale Murphy got 19 percent in his final eligible year.
By 2016, when Edmonds went one-and-done with only 2.5 percent, there had also been added Mike Mussina, Jeff Kent, Ken Griffey Jr (with a then-record 99.3 percent of all ballots), Billy Wagner, Trevor Hoffman, Greg Maddux, Frank Thomas, Tom Glavine, Randy Johnson, Pedro Martinez, and John Smoltz.
Lofton I hofer. C'mon man
The same thing happened to Jim Edmonds and he was better than Lofton.
Have you been watching the videotapes Kenny has been making these past twenty years or so? The dude is a pro in two sports son.
The 1986-87 Offseason for the Pirates is probably one of the best in their history. After going 64-98 in 1986, the Pirates made two trades that changed the franchise, one was the April 1st trade of Tony Peña to the Cardinals for Andy Van Slyke, Mike LaValleire and Mike Dunne. The other was day before Thanksgiving trade of Rick Rhoden, Cecilio Guante and Pat Clements to the Yankees for Doug Drabek, Logan Easley and Brian Fisher. Getting Van Slyke, LaValliere and Drabek drastically changed the franchise and helped turn them from a laughing stock in 1985 to a contender by 1988.
As a Cards fan in the 80s, i concur
And y'all still blew a 10-0 first inning lead to the Phillies in 1989.
Then they traded Moises alou for Zane smith. And smith was pretty good for them but alou was a perennial all-star in Montreal.
@@Rockhound6165kicked there asses all the way back to Pittsburgh walking the whole wat
@@alwillksmith was great for them
I see Grady, I click
Fuzzy see Grady irl, fuzzy sucks his meat 🗿
Grady Sucks,
Nah JK he was super fun to watch
Noted
@@matthewstewart7712 he was trash lol don’t meat ride cause it’s fuzzy
@@sirdapperdan2209 I’m not a fan of his tbh
The wild thing not mentioned here is that the Bartolo Colon to Montreal trade is still benefiting Cleveland to this day.
Cliff Lee was later traded to the Phillies for 4 players, including Carlos Carrasco in 2009.
Fast forward to 2021: Carrasco is traded by Cleveland to the Mets with Francisco Lindor for 4 players, 2 of which are current Guardians players Andres Gimenez and Amed Rosario
Then Amed Rosario was traded for Thor 💀
@@anonymousdogg1559Ahmed without the shift was the worst defensive player at his position in the entire MLB lmao
My Indians/Guardians have historically made tremendously good deals since the 90s. Our front office is just good at knowing when to ship out players at the right time while getting great prospects and properly developing those prospects. It’s just we don’t have the cash (or the owner isn’t willing to fork it out) to keep those guys when their contracts go up.
There was a really great Jonah Keri article on Grantland that went over in detail how the Indians were great at trades, but awful at drafting. They made two separate trades of shitty platoon 1Bs to Seattle and landed Shin Soo Choo and Asdrubal Cabrera!
Also with "Jonah Keri" and "Indians" sorry for making this comment problematic.
@@mrpaul79 Just amazing how much Politics Correctness had become religion to the westerner. "Problematic"? That was the name of the team!
You better watch your mouth punk!! It's GUARDIANS son!!! That other word is a symbol of you being races and sexism!! A real man would apologize but you're just a stupid boy. Prolly gonna get gRaped by his uncle tonight.
How many World Series has Cleveland Won? Trades May have been good,but second place is first place for losers.
As someone who is a Clevelander, I knew the Indians/Guardians were going to be on it the most out of all teams as the winner. they have an uncanny talent to use their good players to their max, and then trade them, and they are never the same once they leave. Pitchers in general they do this with, and they rarely are the loser in the trade. It's absolutely amazing they have this knack with pitchers. they have a good/all-star pitcher, use him, and then trade him away, and almost always win the trade.
A perfect example would be Kluber for Emmanuel Clase. Clase may be the best RP in the game, and Kluber may have pitched an inning for the Texans.
@@briesissy5573 Exactly. Yes, Kluber pitched one inning for the rangers and was out for the year.
I know political correctness is a religion in the US and West now. But Guardians is so cringe
Wow.... a Clevelander who is actually capable of reading well enough to leave a youtube comment... impressive. Isn't it something like only 3.5% of Cleveland residents are functionally literate? Or is it less? I think it might be less. Cleveland is a really, really stupid town.
@@HoshizakiYoshimasa Better than whatever asian gibberish you call a youtube channel name. Aren't you supposed to be eating cats and living in squalor with the other asians?
I still feel like the Miggy trade should be on here even though the Tigers signed him to a contract extension right after
Marlins trading a player who would go on to almost win two consecutive Triple Crowns among many many other accolades and already had 19.5 WAR for a combined -0.7 WAR worth of players
Worth noting, part of the reason the Red Sox traded Bagwell was because they had a young Mo Vaughn competing to be their first baseman of the future, and he may not have been a hall of famer but he was pretty darn good in his own right. Doesn't excuse the bad trade, but still. Sometimes the players traded themselves aren't the whole story.
There’s always DH.
Vaughn probably would have been HOF if he had not been injured shortly after going to the Mets. Dude had one of the most ridiculous 4 year tears in MLB history.
Bagwell was a 3rd basemen in the minors and was stuck behind Wade Boggs in his prime.
@@sams5780 Correct. Bagwell's glove at third was suspect, and Boston wanted to move him from third, but he didn't have the arm for RF/LF, and 1B was Vaughn. He was a player without a position for them.
@@ryanchase9332 even then, I think they forgot that DH exists.
Funny story about the Lowe/Varitek deal. When they were negotiating a deal with Seattle, they said they wanted either Lowe or Varitek. But Seattle misheard them as wanting both, and were so desperate for a bullpen arm, they did it anyways.
They also dealt top prospect Jose Cruz Jr for Mike Timlin. That shows how desperate they were for arms.
It’s both what they gave up but also what they got in return. Everyone in baseball knew Slocumb was a joke. If they’d have given up Lowe and Varitek for say….Butch Henry and Jim Corsi (both serviceable middle relievers), they’d have still overpaid, but they’d at least have guys that could stabilize their bullpen. Then with Jose Cruz, instead of Timlin and Paul Spoljaric, if you’re set on getting a closer, ask for Paul Quantrill instead. Again, overpaying? Yes, but you’re getting something serviceable in return, and now they’re actually set up to make some noise in the post seasonz
Lowe/Varitek for Slocumb always gets the attention, but that trade is at least partially balanced out by Seattle absolutely fleecing Boston when they acquired Jamie Moyer for Darren Bragg the previous year. The Mariners saw a net of 28 WAR over Moyer’s career, and only King Felix and Randy Johnson have higher career pitching WAR in club history.
@@54raynor Even though I wasn't born till 2000, Moyer has always been one of my all time favorite pitchers. Is insane to imagine just how stacked that 2003 Red Sox staff would've been with Moyer.
Thank you for putting that royals and brewers trade on here with Greinke. That trade had such an insane impact on the royals World Series that I actually go back to look at it again every now and then. Greinke did not want to be in KC anymore and getting two everyday position players who were absolute studs on defend at CENTERFIELD AND SHORTSTOP it doesn’t get much better than that. I wasn’t crying for Cain, but he really should have won a gold glove
The thing about that trade was that the Brewers really needed to make it. They'd just signed Braun to a large extension, and Prince Fielder was in his last contract year with the Brewers, and the Brewers just weren't going the afford the money he was going to command. It was a "win now" trade, and Greinke was a real fan-favorite, and he never lost in Miller Park as a Brewer. Had it not been for Marcum being completely burned out from September on, that Brewers team's probably in the World Series.
@@Tyrunner0097Not to mention that trading Greinke later on also netted Milwaukee Jean Segura, who was the flipped later on for a few nice seasons of Chase Anderson.
Thanks for the shout-out to Lou Whitaker. Baffling how sweet Lou wasn't enshrined in Cooperstown the same year as his double play partner, the great Alan Trammell. Also agree on Dave Steib and Curt Flood. Personally, I'd also love to see Tim Lincecum and Dale Murphy voted in. I'm more about peak performance determining HoF status, rather than a 15-16 year career with 7-8 all star appearances- which seems to be the current metric.
I disagree on Lincecum. He only had maybe 5 6 years of peak production then he just fell apart. If he went say 10 years and he didn't fall off like he did I agree.
@@sumner-kv3ghbro you missed his point lol
@@MadManMitch Lincecum's peak is still too short to be HOF worthy though.
Yeah but if we start voting in every guy who has a good handful of prime seasons, they'll be voting in a dozen guys every year and that's not even mentioning the couple hundred current retired players from the past 150 years who also fit that criteria. No matter what the criteria there are always gonna be the guys who end up on the borderline and don't get in.
@@MadManMitch I got his point but Lincecum don't even come close
I love that the Padres got Fred McGriff in return for Carter, then traded him to the Braves a few years later for virtually zero return. They had historically bad trades on both ends! 😂
One that’s really fascinating for me was the Delmon Young trade for Rays. It’s interesting because the trade itself generated about 18.4 net bwar for the Rays, but being the Rays they just kept trading the pieces they got and that series of trades is still generating bwar for Rays right now. Essentially they got Garza and Bartlett, who led their 08 WS run, and then they traded Garza for Archer, Archer for Glasnow, Meadows and Baz, and then Meadows for Parades. Parades is looking great for Rays right now too. When I try to add everything up, Rays got 54.2 bwar out of these trades and only gave up 17.5, and it’s still counting because Parades, Glasnow and Baz are still playing, and you know they will trade them in the future. And they also saved about 34 million dollars.
Honestly only the Rays can do this😂 and I’m so curious how this will pan out in the next 15 years.
In straight 1 for 1 trades, the Pirates trading Jose Bautista to the Jays for a PTBNL that turned out to be Robinson Díaz is a pretty good haul for the Jays. Bautista put up over 18 bWAR in 2009-2011 over his last years of team control. Díaz was out of the majors after putting up just 0.5 in 2009.
Surprised it wasn’t an honourable mention
I'm a Phillies fan and absolutely love Bobby Abreu, I've never once understood the hate for him among my fellow fans. It's really frustrating.
I was nervous if I included that Philly fans tend to dislike Abreu that I'd have a bunch of Philly fans in the comments telling me that isn't the case. That hasn't happened at all.
The screen shot with some Abreu hate was spelled “Abru”, so I wouldn’t worry about that being a widely held opinion
He was an awful fielder. Afraid of the wall. -62 runs saved on defense for his career.
Before the '91 season, the Orioles traded for Glenn Davis of the Astros. They gave up Pete Harnisch, who would go on to have a mildly productive major league career, Steve Finley, who had a very nice career as a major league outfielder, and Curt Schilling. Harnisch went on to produce 17.8 WAR after the trade, Finley went on to produce 43.5 WAR after the trade, and Schilling went on to produce 88.8 WAR after the trade. So the Orioles gave up 150.1 future WAR. Harnisch made one all-star team, Finley won 5 gold gloves, made two all-star teams, and twice was in the top 15 of MVP votes, and of course Schilling, who made 6 all-star teams, finished second in the Cy Young voting 3 times, fourth once, four times finished in the top 15 of MVP voting, and may have been the best post-season pitcher of all-time. He also I think has the best K/BB ratio in baseball history, if I am not mistaken.
Meanwhile, the Orioles got 3 injury-plagued seasons which totaled 185 games, including once getting injured by a batted ball at a game while sitting on the bench, and once in a barroom brawl, produced 0.7 WAR total over those three years, and then was out of baseball. He was a phenomenal player for the Astros before the Orioles got him, but the Orioles would have been better off keeping any of the three that they had over Davis, most especially the Hall-of-Fame worthy Schilling.
Edit: I know the cutoff was team control for this video, but the rules of this video don't tell the whole story either.
I believe this was the worst trade in baseball history since Harry Frazee sold Babe Ruth to the Yankees for a failed theatrical play.
The Os at least made up for it with the Bedard Trade. Boy Seattle made a ton of bad trades
@@neilbeigie4045 I don't think it 'made up for it'. The Orioles traded 150.1 future WAR for 0.7 WAR spread over three seasons. Bedard was very good but he only produced 17.4 WAR over his career, marginally more than Harnisch, including 12.7 WAR over 5 seasons with Baltimore.
@@neilbeigie4045 That trade came 15+ years later. Making up for it would be making trade after that season so next years team at least got players to make up for losing those 3. Its worst Trade in Baltimore Orioles History !! As a kid Finely was becoming my favorite player, after Cal Ripken of course, and was shocked when that happened!!
The 2003 Pirates sending Aramis Ramirez and Kenny Lofton to the Cubs for Jose Hernandez and Bobby Hill has to be close to making this list.
I'm surprised I hadn't found your channel until now, you deserve way more subscribers. I'm positive you'll get there, this is quality baseball content.
Absolute great content my dude. Graphics and timing and all that production stuff is money
Much appreciated!
How does the Ivan Dejesus to the Phillies for Larry Bowa and Ryne Sandberg not make this list? And fun fact: Even Larry Anderson makes fun of that trade. He also went on to help the Phillies to a pennant in 1993.
props to u for shouting out 1975 … curt flood, marvin miller, pete seitz and andy messersmith were essentially responsible for why today’s players can make 300M contracts and why our offseasons and trade deadlines are so much fun talking about big moves 👌🏼
also 21 should be retired in baseball not only bc of clemente but also bc of curt flood. he’s the reason why many athletes around the world in many different sports can become rich playing ball.
Curt Flood may be the most impactful player on the league in the last 50 years.
@@BaseballsNotDead black history month yet I still haven’t heard his name being mentioned. I have been following baseball for over 20 years yet didn’t become fully aware of why he is so important until last year. baseball needs to do a much better job marketing him and teaching fans the history bc he’s important not only for baseball but also for labor laws.
@@justinllamas1 it’s no coincidence that the MLB doesn’t want to emphasize his legacy. The reason Marvin Miller was only elected to the Hall of Fame recently was that he and Flood were the men most responsible for getting ballplayers their fair share, and the owners still resent them for it. The likes of Jerry Reinsdorf are still around, and even after Flood and Miller won players the right to free agency, the owners colluded for years to prevent them from realizing their value. It’s a shame they’ll never get their due respect from the establishment, but they’ve helped the game more than almost anyone else
Can you elaborate on why those players had such an impact?
@@mattm7798 Free agency doesn't exist without Curt Flood. He got blacklisted from baseball because he fought against the reserve clause.
Kenny Lofton is a Hall of Famer. One of the most exciting players of his time.
Nope. Not even close. Way better people than him aren't in
@@louisbilodeau8682 derp
@@NuanceOverDogma dweeb
. Hofer my ass. Plenty better than him aren't in. Dwight Evans for example.
Visuals on this are some of the best i’ve seen on youtube. Live side by side window feeds w/ player statistics is a pretty ingenious layout for this subject
Thanks! It definitely added a bit of time to the video editing.
@@BaseballsNotDead The extra effort does not go unnoticed, appreciate the quality uploads as always 🤝
The one that hurts most to me is Seattle sending Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, and George Sherrill to Baltimore for Erik Bedard...still haunts me
New subscriber here - really enjoy your content. Not just hot takes / reactions with no context, but well-researched and informative dives into the Show. Well done!
I'm surprised not to see the Giants/Twins swap of Francisco Liriano and Joe Nathan for AJ Pierzynski on this list. Was it because of the team control rule?
Crazy that Cleveland will probably make the list again with the Mike Clevinger deal
Absolutely will if Gabe Arias gives them anything worthwhile.
They could end up on here for the Kluber trade to Texas
Cleveland has had great front office and management forever, just sad they dont have a big enough market to finance the talent to win big consistently. We see so much talent come through here. J Ram is a treasure for playing for what he does.
Thank you for the Curt Flood for the HoF shoutout! He both has great numbers and was so impactful to baseball.
No doubt!
Not good enough numbers to get in the HoF. His accomplishments with regards to how he changed free agency IS covered at the HoF, it's not like there's no mention of the impact he had. But he doesn't get a bust in the actual part of the hall meant to honor the best players (and umps, managers, execs, ect.) that have ever played/been involved in baseball. A career WAR in the low 40's, 3 all stars, 7 fold gloves, 2 WS rings, sorry but nothing about that screams HOF worthy. Good player, sure, and had an impact on the history of the game, but not one of the greatest to ever be in the game.
@@unkledoda420 Best doesn’t always mean statistical. They use non-statistical reasons all the time, why not here too? My point wasn’t that he has HoF statistics, it’s that he had very good statistics, in a career that was cut short because his fight for free agency, to go along with the significants of his fight, which should get him enshrined.
@@BaseballsNotDead I looked up and Flood’s numbers, and nah, he doesn’t belong in the Hall. He had one great season in 1964, but overall he was just kinda good, finishing below the Rule of 2000 with a bWAR of under 42.
I can see the case for Dave Stieb though, and Kenny Lofton is one of the biggest snubs of all time (Lou Whitaker is the biggest non-steroid one).
When I think Flood should be in the Hall it is not for his statistical output. He is easily the most important player in the last 50 years of baseball and reshaped how the game works today. About 7 videos I've made about player contracts and service time wouldn't exist without Curt Flood doing what he did.
They specifically have a "pioneer" category for Hall of Fame inductions, and that's what Flood should go in as.
15:00 Preach. Lofton getting snubbed from the HoF still baffles me to this day
1:39 they weren’t “essentially” under team control. The Reserve Clause meant they LITERALLY were under team control for life. Just ask Curt Flood.
What I meant is if the team doesn't trade them.
2013 Braves - Diamondbacks trade: J.Upton was great for us, but not many people remember that we also got Chris Johnson in that deal, and he almost won the batting title that same year. We definitely won that trade.
Chris Johnson was a football player. Idiot.
Great video. Interesting how many trades really come down to what we need now vs. what might happen in the future.
I remember listening to a lively discussion among two of my friends, both avid baseball fans. One guy asked the other the following five-year hypothetical: Scenario A, 100 percent you win ring in the first year but your team misses the playoffs in each of the next four; versus Scenario B, you make the playoffs in each of the next five years but with no guarantee of a championship. They were split on the two, and each made a pretty good case for his side.
Also, are we sure Cuellar isn't pronounced "KWAY-ahr?" I know that's how Mike said it, not sure about Bobby.
Bros the baseball version of jxmy highroller
I think it's important to note that Bagwell had a lot of detractors at the time. Many thought he had no chance to make the majors, let alone be a star.
Bob Watson believed in him and staked his whole career on this trade.
I was glad he was here in Houston, made watching games in the dome so fun as a little boy
As someone who grew up emulating the bagwell stance, I’m glad he made it.
He was never convicted for sex crimes until his 7th season, it was all hearsay and baseless accusations until then. Even after he was put on the list, it was totes BS because first off.... he was 13, it's not like he was some 12 year old kid, he was at least a teen.... and second off, that little punk was totes asking for it!! JB did nothing wrong and should be taken off the offender list as soon as possible son!!!
As an Expos fan, knew exactly what number one was going to be
Fantastic video, and as usual I really appreciate both your methodology and your delivery. But as a crusty 40-something lifetime baseball fan, what really makes me appreciate your videos is getting pretty much every name right. I hate watching younger RUclipsrs who straight up butcher pronunciations. I know proper nouns are hard to pronounce because there are basically no rules (Looking at you Coach K) but there are usually hundreds of videos available of broadcasters saying the players names!. Anyway... sorry for my rant, and keep up the great work.
If you look in the comments I definitely butchered a few, but I do make every effort to try to get them right. Was even looking up some minor league media guides to see if they had pronunciation guides for a few players that never hit the majors, but even then I still flubbed about 3 or 4 in this video (Medich, Cueller, Rohde). Also massively messed up saying Kluber went to Tigers instead of Rangers.
Grady was one I wished we could have seen play a 15 year career. That list can be long, but for active and players we saw, my top 3 are Bo Jackson, Griffey Jr and Mantle. I know Griffey and Mantle played great, but without injuries, how much better could it have been..
Mark Prior is a big one...
And Ichiro playing his whole career in America.
Have you ever heard of Eric Davis? Another “what if he stayed healthy” guy
Nomar is up there.
Nice work on this! I think you meant the Rangers when mentioning the Kluber/DeShields/Clase trade. You said Tigers
Doh!
Yeah I got confused because I was unaware of any of those players being on the Tigers at some point
@@Karmy. As a tigers fan I would not have been surprised if it was the tigers
@@santumi2298 same tho
......... The first honorable mention is not making the list anymore
1. Nolan Arenado. The Rockies are paying 60% of his salary this year 😂
Sure hope this channel blows up for you this season. Awesome stuff my man. 🇺🇲
I appreciate that!
He needs more naked penis shots to really have a chance.
Genuinely did not expect my Astros to be on this list, good or bad, THAT many times. I didn’t even know we once had Zobrist and Santana, that’s just unreal.
Most Astros fans were established in last 5 or 6 years so that makes sense.
@@thatalleycat lol
The 'stro(ke)s ought to have their own list for being the dumbest MLB franchise with the highest rate of full-blown mental retardation amongst it's fanbase.
@@thatalleycat I’m actually a Houston native who’s been on and off the team since they won their NL pennant in 2005, when I was seven years old. Carry on.
surprised my Mariners weren't on here more. Even more surprised to see them on the plus side for one of the trades. I knew that Varitek/Lowe trade would be on here. A little surprised the Adam Jones for Erik Bedard trade wasn't on here. It wouldn't have counted based on your analysis, but we also traded David Ortiz (but this was a number of years before he would break out).
The Bedard Trade has a huge Asterisk. Bedard was great when he was on the field. He just couldn't stay healthy...and Adam Jones became a contract albatross for the Orioles.
There was also the Omar Vizquel for Felix Fermin trade. That was pretty lop-sided.
I applaud you for saying mine and my uncle's last name of Quintana correctly.
Four Cardinals trades that come to mind
1. The Yankees trade minor league OF Willie McGee to the Cardinals for pitcher Bob Sykes.
2. The Cardinals sent over former first-round draft pick J.D. Drew and backup catcher/utility fielder Eli Marrero for young starting pitcher Jason Marquis, southpaw reliever Ray King and then Double-A pitching prospect Adam Wainwright.
3. Phillies trade Scott Rolen to the St. Louis Cardinals in exchange for Placido Polanco, Bud Smith, and Mike Timlin.
4. Jim Edmonds became a St. Louis Cardinal in a deal that sent pitcher Kent Bottenfield and second base prospect Adam Kennedy to the Angels.
One thing to be proud to be an Indians/Guards fan for I guess lol
Also, I can't believe we gave up Brandon Phillips so easily, and it sucks so hard that Sizemore got injured so young. Absolutely nuts
What bothers me is how highly touted both Andy Marte and Matt LaPorta were and they had glashes and then disappeared. Some of the Cleveland trades could have been even better.
Kluber was the best pitcher in the American League for a long time
As an Englishman that has loved cricket all my life thanks to your channel have now found myself watching baseball too thanks 👍 great videos loving learning more about the history of it
You might have already been informed in other comments but - Kluber was traded to the Texas Rangers not the Tigers (@18:04). Love the video so far!
Great video! One small note though is that Kluber was traded to the Rangers and not the Tigers.
So if Cleveland makes a trade, it will end up looking really good in 2-3 years. Be worried when your team makes a trade with the Guardians baseball fans 😂
Becoming my favorite baseball channel keep up the great content🔥
I was born in Cleveland and still live there. First off Lofton isn't in the HOF because it's the Indians, second that whole late 90s team is filled with what should be HOFers. Never will forget my childhood with that team. Grady, man I'll never forget a game against KC, when Grady hits a home run in the 1st and the Indians were on such a hitting streak, that he made 2 plate appearances in the 1st inning. They beat KC 12-1 at home, and it was on Grady blanket night, still have the blanket. Then Kluber, man, I will never forget the 2016 indians. Kluber, Tomlin, Miller, Bauer... The pitching was on fire. I love Cleveland baseball. Everything they have done since the early 90s has been amazing to watch. One day we will win the WS.
One side note I always had on the Bagwell trade. He was considered expendable by the Red Sox because they were setting themselves up with Mo Vaughn.... Still a lopsided trade, but it adds to the context on why the Red Sox made the trade.
also, I'm interested, what was the WAR value of CC Sabathia to the Brewers? I know its hard to measure what that meant to Milwaukee
Bagwell was also a 3rd baseman in the Sox minor leagues and was blocked by Wade Boggs, Tim Naehring, and Scott Cooper. At first base, he was blocked by Carlos Quintana and Mo Vaughn. By the end of 1997 only Vaughn was still on the Sox
What size drawers do you think Mo Vaugh was wearing? They had to be double XL at least you would think. I bet they got real filthy real fast. The smell coming out of his trousers was probably close to unbearable. Imagine the skid marks he was leaving!! What is just a skid mark to Mo Vaughn is almost a full load for a normal-sized human being. I'd pay money to get the inside track on one of his bowel movements, you know what I'm saying Carl?
I will say one thing about that Fields Yordan trade is there is one thing about it in which the Dodgers lost on both sides one being you gave up Yordan but on the Fields side is an intresting one. Fields played 3 years for the team but season worth that was about two season and they were pretty good with him getting better each year but where the Dodgers lose here is GM 2 2017 WS. In Game 2 the game went into extra innings and Fields come in he only saw 3 batters before getting pulled which ended up in back to back home runs and a double (while nothing came out of the double that is still bad). The dodgers in the bottom of that inning get two runs of their own meaning without Fields the Dodgers win game 2 and win the series in 6 but that didn't happen as the Astros would end up taking game 2 winning the series in 7 and that's how you make a trade and lose both ways.
I gotta think the Erik Bedard for Adam Jones, Chris Tillman, George Sherill, and Kam Mickolio has gotta be up there in lopsided WAR
Was not expecting to see/hear the Astros come up as much as they did… awesome to learn new things.
You might have to put a 5th Cleveland trade on this list later. Mike Clevinger and Greg Allen to the Padres for Josh Naylor, Cal Quantrill, Owen Miller, Gabriel Arias, Austin Hedges, and Joey Cantillo
Already at +5.5 bWAR for the Guardians. Hedges and Miller have already gone to another team, Naylor has 3 more years of team control and Quantrill has 3 as well. It's going to come down to Arias and Cantillo.
If any recent Cleveland trade was to show up it would probably be the Lindor trade.
Cleveland traded 1 year of Lindor and 3 years of Carlos Carrasco for 6 years of Andres Gimenez, 3 years of Amed Rosario, and prospects Josh Wolf and Isaiah Greene. The deal is already +10.8 bWAR for Cleveland and they still have 1 year of Rosario and 4 years of Gimenez compared to the Mets 1 year of Carrasco. Now both Wolf and Greene could potentially add to that but their both very far from the majors and neither have amazing scout grades so they likely won’t contribute much if at all.
Now I don’t think the Mets would take back the deal because it allowed them to extend Lindor for the rest of his career but by the methodology used in this video it is already a slam dunk for Cleveland and could get better. The only other deal for Cleveland that might show up is Junior Caminero for Tobias Myers. But for our sake I hope that one doesn’t happen.
Not sure if it will be on here since Gallen was then moved to Arizona, but the Cardinals trading Sandy Alcantara, Zac Gallen and 2 other players to Miami for Marcel Ozuna could be there soon. Alcantara alone has 3 times the WAR that Ozuna brought to the Cardinals.
Sandy, Gallen, and Castano ( solid pitcher ) for 2 mediocre years of Ozuna
Wait, how is John Smoltz for Doyle Alexander not on this list? That’s gotta be a huge blowout for WAR disparity
I was going to thumbs up the video anyways, but then the Heathcliffe Slocumb highlight video started. Just brilliant.
The trade that always comes to mind when talking about lopsided trades is mark texiera for Elvis Andrus, Neftalí Feliz, Matt Harrison, and jarrod saltalamachia. Braves got like 2 half seasons out of texiera meanwhile rangers got 3 allstars that helped put them in the World Series twice
When I was compiling all of these I went in alphabetical order... so the Braves were right after Arizona. That Teixeira trade was up near the top of the list for a while but just missed out in the end. Ended up at 28.2 net WAR.
Braves got half of the 2007 season and half of the 2008 season for Texeira (traded to Angels during 2008 season).
Lofton only got 3% of the vote because he was on the ballot with other 1st yr guys like Bonds and Clemens. Writers boycotted their vote and by doing so kicked Kenny off the ballot after one year.
Seeing the Ben Zobrist (?) flip made me think about seeing him play all 9 positions against the twins in Minneapolis a while back (2019 I think). Was kinda of a throw away game but it was pretty cool to see happen live.
These were all great. Lot of work went into it for sure.
I thought you were a Mets fan but now I get it, your mascot is a DEAD Mr. Met 🤣
So true about Kenny Lofton. Makes zero sense to fall off the ballot after one year?
I was expecting to see Doyle Alexander for John Smoltz, but the years of player control must have nixed that one.
It’s also pretty funny that Nolan Arenado is the 2nd highest paid player on the Rockies’ payroll this season
Lofton was one of the most exciting players to ever play baseball. He was capable of scoring a run without the team getting a hit. It is an absolute travesty that he isn't in the hall for fans of baseball to marvel at his tremendous skills.
C'mon man
He also made/makes adult videotapes under the name Kyle Lowdown. Some pretty "classy" stuff. Kenny was gifted with more than one talent son. Though I heard in game 4 of NLCS he had visible sea men stains on his trousers that you could see while he was playing. a
I'm still trying to figure out why Dwight Evans and Bill Buckner aren't in.
I know Buckner is known for his gaffe in world series, but look at his numbers. Dwight Evans numbers have similarities to lofton. 8 gold gloves. And arguably the best arm ever
@@jennyanydots2389 wait….what!?
@@russsnyder2026 I don't know why that dude is surprised about Buckner not being in either. What sized jean shorts do you wear?
Hindsight is 20/20, but if the Astros didnt make that Randy Johnson trade, it would have helped them not suffer from that pitcher deficient 2000 season. They had 4 guys with an OPS+ of 130 and still went 72-90 because their pitching was that bad.
"Watch out for the wall, Bobby!"
- My Family and I when Abreu was on the Yankees and clearly afraid of contact with the right field wall
oo quick cold intro, this goin be a good one
gabriel moreno gonna be on this list in 7 years ;(
They trade Kluber to the Rangers not Tigers. But very good video
Doh!
Was kinda surprised the Jake Arrieta trade didn’t make the cut till I looked at the baseball reference page and realize Pedro Strop didn’t have as high a WAR as I expected. Net difference of 23.8 bWAR tho, gotta be the smartest/luckiest trade Cubs made on the road to 2016
Had to subscribe hearing you're a born and raised Brewers fan
I may be wrong(and if I am ignore this), but I think you are only counting WAR a player accrued on the team that traded from him in the deal. I think that sells trades short, because it doesnt account for what they got when the player left, and either way the subsequent move doesn't make the trade less lopsided. I like the logic you used in the draft video better where you only counted the WAR during controllable years a because those years are what you get via the draft. If I drafted Mike Trout and traded him for Phil Gosselin, that doesn't make the draft pick not a phenomenal pick anymore, and I feel the same about the trades. Still a great video, love the content!
No, you're right. There's different ways to analyze trades and all have their plusses and minuses. There's also digging into trade trees (you trade for a player then if you trade them down the line you should probably get the incoming player value) but they all come with their different complexities and downsides. Ultimately, I had to go with one method and stick to it... and since it took about 60 hours to go through every trade, didn't really want to open pandora's box and start analyzing different ways.
Ultimately, there are downsides to how I'm analyzing it, but that's true for any method. This is the one I finally went with.
the real crazy thing about 3 of Cleveland's 4 appearances on this list, is that when those trades were made, fans were livid! "we traded Westbrook?!?!? for WHO?!?!?!?!?" "oh man, it's gonna suck watching Carter hit dingers for some other team..." "if we didn't get something good for Bartolo I'm quitting this team!" if only we knew...
About Lofton - he fell off the ballot after one year because he retired in 2007, the same year as Bonds, Clemens, Sosa, PIazza. And as such, he was eligible for the hall of fame in the same year as them. Unfortunately, that was the year the writers threw a hissy fit about steroids and didn't vote anyone into the hall of fame, and vote numbers were down for everybody. Lofton was an unfortunate casualty, and dropped off the ballot
he never took steroids like all 4 of those cheaters
@@NuanceOverDogma
Be that as it may, he was still in the wrong place at the wrong time
Even with the marlins trading gallen to the diamondbacks, the Ozuna for Alcantara trade could end up on this list. It almost certainly will if you count Jazz as part of the marlins value since he was swapped for gallen
Methodology being used or not…the Arenado trade is extremely lopsided lmao. It was one of the dumbest moves made in baseball history
That level of obvious tanking by the Rockies should be considered a form of ownership point shaving and carry a prison sentence or a heavy fine. It's a form of defrauding the fanbase.
@@pokemongo-up3rq agreed 100%
I was surprised not to see Matt Williams for JT Snow in this video.
Love these vids
The one trade that should have been on here but could not be since it happened prior to 1975 is the blockbuster 1971 trade where the Angels sent shortstop Jim Fregosi to the Mets for Nolan Ryan, who would turn into the best pitcher in Major League history with 7 no hitters and 5,714 strikeouts.
Nolan Ryan isn’t the best pitcher in MLB history. Not even close. His incredible availability is what gave him those numbers over a 20+ year career.
@Curtis Rapp If Ryan doesn't fill that spot, than who does? A big part of what puts Ryan in that spot for me is his endurance, work ethic, and consistency. He worked hard to pitch that long and he was incredibly good a lot longer than most guys, which deserves a lot of respect and props.
@@daytongifford4900 it deserves all the respect in the world, you’re right. But don’t forget he has the most BB right next to the most K’s. Greg Maddux is a better pitcher than Nolan Ryan.
Thank you for the videos Baseball Daniel Tosh.
I'd almost forgotten about the Mariner's Heathcliff Slocum trade, thanks a bunch, dude.
I'm surprised the Mark Langston for Randy Johnson trade didn't make the list. I'm assuming the team control aspect is the reason, but the Mariners really hit huge on both ends of the Randy Johnson trades.
nice vid
Thanks!
As a Cleveland fan I’m pleasantly surprised you had all those trades of ours on there even though they deserved to be. Honestly, not to be greedy but the Omar trade could’ve been on there to.
Was surprised that the Pedro Martinez to the Red Sox for Carl pavano and tony armas jr wasn’t on this
How did you miss Sandberg & Bowa (69.6 bWAR) for Ivan De Jesus (1.8 bWAR)
Easily the most lopsided trade in MLB history.
The team control rule brings it down to 25.7. Cubs only get the first 6 years of Sandberg (rest was an extension) which was 27.1. Larry Bowa adds 1.5. Ivan de Jesus takes away 2.9.
Still pretty lopsided nonetheless
@@SuperGalaxy Agreed,
“Imagine the 1999 Red Sox with prime Nomar and Bagwell in the middle of their lineup, and Pedro as the ace of the staff. That team would be scary.”
Still wouldn’t have beaten the Yankees, though.
Game 1 of 1999 ALCS went 10 innings and game 2 was only a 1 run difference. Could've definitely flipped with Bagwell.
@@BaseballsNotDead Better pitching depth would have helped them better considering washed up leftovers of what used to be Saberhagen being their second best pitcher was an indication of their rotation outside of Pedro.
@@BaseballsNotDead This made me think about the '99 ALDS and how gutwrenching it was as a Cleveland fan when Pedro came into that Game 5.
You: describing all the Cleveland trades.
Cleveland fans: Agent Smith laugh.
I met Bobby Abreu in 2011 at Angels Spring Training I'm Phoenix which was in walking distance from my apt.
He signed my Yankees shirt. Super chill. Spring training was the best
I remember when Bobby Abrea competed in the HR derby and it ruined his swing.. And everyone was afraid of their teams players competing in the derby and f*cking up their swing for years after.
It didn’t ruin his swing tho. He had solid numbers for a few years after that. I remember people talking about it but I don’t think there’s any truth to it