J.C. I worked with and outside contractor to repair and overhead crane (15 ton) that had developed some cracks in it after 35 years in service. There were a lot of engineers involved in this job and it was decide that the job would be done in duel shielded. The first reason was extreme penetration on the one inch flitch plates and the second reason was you can weld vertical up with good penetration and control. So you are spot on with your choose of welding procedure..
I am like you that we both have done a lot of frames. Frames have to flex. If they don't they will break. Welds don't flex. They will crack if they flex. I butt weld the frames together Then I add a cross member at the weld. A strong cross member and bolt it in. Use 4 bolts on each side of the weld That will keep that part of the frame from flexing where the weld is. I also add a frame plate on the inside before I install the cross member. Then I weld a brace to the cross member on the bottom of the cross member as so to keep the cross member from spreading apart. It now is the strongest part of the frame and it will not crack or flex at that point. I have done this for years and have never have not one problem. Even with tri axle dumps that gross over 80,000 pounds. In some cases I double the frame rails and bolt then together depending on the application. Now while welding I stress relieve the weld as I go. It takes a lot less time and less work and is strong. I use 7018 rods. This is how I do it now and I've tried them all over the years.
Great video and explanation on your thoughts. To get a good weld you can always tack a piece of flat bar inside the frame and let it stick out past the edge of the frame. That way you can burn your root weld into the tack strip and start and stop welding past the edge of the frame. When you done welding you can use the torch and flushing tip to get rid off the tack strip. Also match the tensile strength of wire or rod to the frame material.
Just my two cents JC, I like to use dual shield for a lot of fabwork on a thin frame like that one I’d use .035 duel shield and tack the outside adequately, then weld my inside, dual shield likes to bridge so you can back grind the outside easily
that is exactly what i do. so much easier to grind into the first weld from the outside. i also grind back a half in to an inch into a weld anywhere i stopped and restart..
I've done more than a few truck frame splices, almost exactly the same way. Dual shield or 7018 is the way to go. I usually end up with 7018 because I don't always get to work indoors
Good vid, thanks. I just bought a truck, and they cut the frame rails right after the rear spring hanger. I want to mount a knuckle boom crane with self contained hydraulic outriggers to it. So, I have to get some main rail and liner sections to do that. Perfect timing to watch your project.
Enjoyed this video all positive comments so far but before morning somebody will probably show up with a bushel of sour grapes simply because they can. Thanks for taking us along. Tom
Great video J.C.Smith thanks for your explanation of what you're doing with this frame splicing. Looking forward to your next video stay safe J.C.Smith.
I did a few years ago,I did a 45 degree,welded them with 7018. the farms I welded for decided to do their own after mine-they showed up for a New York Inspection with their own welded frames-wire tabs hanging out,they didn't use run-on,run-off tabs like I did. those ghetto splices hold the stress of driving in and out of fields with an overloaded box just fine.
Interesting fact about welding on Vehicles. The NHRA, SCCA and NASCAR require the your frame or roll cage be either MiG or Tig welded. They SPECIFICALLY State that they CANNOT BE ARC WELDED.
In part probably has to do with the fact that most racecar cages are thin at .095, 0.120" max wall tubing. Where most truck frames are 1/4", to up to 1/2" thick.
Remember too, the good old days of drag racing after WWII, most guys were building stuff with an old stick welder and a torch in their garage. So some of the rules go back that far and might not even be relevant today in the same sense.
"Manufacturer's recommendations" I have two GM 4500s. They're both Bay Bridge conversions and both frames are extended after the rear spring mounts. The "factory" frame extensions are just random pieces of mismatched frame stick welded directly to the end of the factory rails. Just butted up to the factory vertical cut. Everything is torch cut and the welds look like they were done with a car battery and coat hanger. Both trucks are 14,000 gvw. Your frame extensions and quality of work are done far above what GM's own outfitters do. It will be stronger, safer and definitely prettier.
I always look at any weld repair as how I can get the best possible weld that I am capable of. Sometimes it’s stick weld sometimes it’s wire. 7018 is only better if you can weld 7018
Boom. Grand Design 5th wheel company should pay you about $200k consulting fee and show their engineers this video 🤣👌😁. Excellent lecture today 👍. Oh how we all seem to end up with a lifer truck sometimes that just won't go away
i love the horizontal cutt design i have seen it done a few times its said to be alot stronger and the ones ive seen done a 16 bolt frame crossmembers is added right in the horizontal cutt with 8 bolts top 8 bolts bottom per side for added strength i would love to know J.C though on this method
Well J.C., I can confidently say that I think I learned more from this single video than watching all the “fluff” they film on those car shows like on the discovery channel and motortrend. Speaking of welding I don’t know if you got my photos I sent you the other day, but I picked up an ESAB “Mig master” 251. Any thoughts on quality/reliability of the ESAB brand of welders?
i dont watch the "non" reality tv junk. smoke and mirrors. i did not see anything about a welder. i cant say anything good or bad about esab as i am not a welder and i have never owned one. definitely a popular brand. i have seen many manufactures use them.
I absolutely love your work JC and the way you explain things I learned so much just listening to you I can't wait to really meet you cuz when I do I'm going under an internship as well as partnership with you if you will allow me cuz the way I see it I will make the both of us look good by helping you look good period 💯💯👍👍
Most likely a properly welded joint will exceed the strength of the frame any way, the only thing I would add would be pre heat and post heat. gm lists their strength any where between 50ksi and 120 ksi. since this truck is fairly low gvwr and was sold to a luxury up-fitter, my guess your on the lower end of the spectrum. it is fairly common practice to downrate filler material to get a more ductile weld ex.. most people weld 4130 with 70 or 80 ksi to make a more ductile joint. note: not engineering or welding advise, just a guy that can put metal together and have it look acceptable.
Great work. Could you run a double outside on the side and bottom just past splice that will also take up the bag mount to spread the bags load to frame a bit
Would you be able to give us the wire specks and heat settings that you are using for the extentions is your liner if used truck frame or isit ever mild steel. I did hear you say you are not a welder but I still am interested in your process. Keep up the good videos.
i will share the entire procedure. from setting up the machine, to what wire, what mix of gas, flow meter settings, pre welding prep, the procedure itself, the order and the direction we weld.
Having started out in a shop that did alot of frame work i have leaned things that many dont know from people that learned the hard way cutting a frame to change wheel base double frame, back half everyone has a thought and everyone else is wrong what i leaned pre heat and post heat helps for repairs like around torque arm mounts i work on refuse trucks those things get worked and center crossmembers for walking beams crack i welded some up some times they hold up for a bit butt now its too bad get a new crossmember iam not welding them anymore and ya done with others telling me that everytime i have to make repairs to frames chassis mack pete ih whatever brand refuse body just told the boss you want me to fix it thats fine its not something that just is a 15 minute job for a backbone that holds a 78,000 plus pound truck going hwy speed with my name on that frame weld job it will be done right or not by me the others can wiss off and dont get me started on mount lift axles dont care i put them on stait and true all kinds of ways that are right and wrong. And i picked up a few things from you as well. Dont know if you heard of this butt allways round off the inner liners the guy that i lreaned alott from siad he back halfed a semi and 5 years later the owner droped it off for the yearly dot and the liner was wearing into the frame rails that kinda stuck in my head and never be under 24 in form the center of the cut to end of liner
i see lots of breaks and cracks around torque arm mounts on heavier trucks. i end up removing the small add on plate the manufacture puts in place and install a inside full liner instead. i make it extend far enough to catch both drive axle suspension mounts and crossmembers. seems to solve the problem permanently.
I’m not a welder either but if critical welds can be accomplished by flux core shielded welds why do professionals use stick when welding things like ship hulls or pipelines? This is not a snarky comment. I am asking because I consider you to be a smart guy that doesn’t half ass anything but you have a resource to bounce things off of and I assume you have asked a similar question.
dual shield is a much more expensive process to runs versus traditional stick and it is hard to use any shielding gas process out in the elements. dont know if this is a factor or not. just things that come to mind.
@@j.c.smithprojects I was thinking it was a cost reasoning. I know I have always made my best welds (both penetrating as well as bead stacking) with rods. I’m curious because I have a century class I plan on doing a frame shortening at some point so all of the knowledge is going in my brain bank. Thanks again bud.
You are not a welder, you are not a fabricator, you are not a mechanic, and a la Casey ladelle, you certainly never said you were good at this. It appears you have successfully done this for a long time, though.
It wouldn't be a weekend without a J.C video!
J.C. I worked with and outside contractor to repair and overhead crane (15 ton) that had developed some cracks in it after 35 years in service. There were a lot of engineers involved in this job and it was decide that the job would be done in duel shielded. The first reason was extreme penetration on the one inch flitch plates and the second reason was you can weld vertical up with good penetration and control. So you are spot on with your choose of welding procedure..
I am like you that we both have done a lot of frames. Frames have to flex. If they don't they will break. Welds don't flex. They will crack if they flex. I butt weld the frames together Then I add a cross member at the weld. A strong cross member and bolt it in. Use 4 bolts on each side of the weld That will keep that part of the frame from flexing where the weld is. I also add a frame plate on the inside before I install the cross member. Then I weld a brace to the cross member on the bottom of the cross member as so to keep the cross member from spreading apart. It now is the strongest part of the frame and it will not crack or flex at that point. I have done this for years and have never have not one problem. Even with tri axle dumps that gross over 80,000 pounds. In some cases I double the frame rails and bolt then together depending on the application. Now while welding I stress relieve the weld as I go. It takes a lot less time and less work and is strong. I use 7018 rods. This is how I do it now and I've tried them all over the years.
Great video and explanation on your thoughts. To get a good weld you can always tack a piece of flat bar inside the frame and let it stick out past the edge of the frame. That way you can burn your root weld into the tack strip and start and stop welding past the edge of the frame.
When you done welding you can use the torch and flushing tip to get rid off the tack strip.
Also match the tensile strength of wire or rod to the frame material.
i always look of the psi of the frame when preparing. another reason i am using a donor with the same rated frame section.
Thank you J.C. for sharing your thoughts, practices, experiences & good ideas on frame work. I really appreciate the videos.
You gave a great explanation about how you do you're framework looking forward to seeing you're next video thumbs up 👍
Great explanation
Just my two cents JC, I like to use dual shield for a lot of fabwork on a thin frame like that one I’d use .035 duel shield and tack the outside adequately, then weld my inside, dual shield likes to bridge so you can back grind the outside easily
that is exactly what i do. so much easier to grind into the first weld from the outside. i also grind back a half in to an inch into a weld anywhere i stopped and restart..
I've done more than a few truck frame splices, almost exactly the same way. Dual shield or 7018 is the way to go. I usually end up with 7018 because I don't always get to work indoors
Very good video ! This will be a great one to look back at on some future projects I have in mind 👍👍
Good vid, thanks. I just bought a truck, and they cut the frame rails right after the rear spring hanger. I want to mount a knuckle boom crane with self contained hydraulic outriggers to it. So, I have to get some main rail and liner sections to do that. Perfect timing to watch your project.
Enjoyed this video all positive comments so far but before morning somebody will probably show up with a bushel of sour grapes simply because they can. Thanks for taking us along. Tom
Great video J.C.Smith thanks for your explanation of what you're doing with this frame splicing. Looking forward to your next video stay safe J.C.Smith.
Hi JC thank you for sharing 🤗
I did a few years ago,I did a 45 degree,welded them with 7018. the farms I welded for decided to do their own after mine-they showed up for a New York Inspection with their own welded frames-wire tabs hanging out,they didn't use run-on,run-off tabs like I did. those ghetto splices hold the stress of driving in and out of fields with an overloaded box just fine.
Interesting, just like a dress or slacks. Alter it to fit better, just use the right stitch.
Interesting fact about welding on Vehicles. The NHRA, SCCA and NASCAR require the your frame or roll cage be either MiG or Tig welded. They SPECIFICALLY State that they CANNOT BE ARC WELDED.
interesting.
In part probably has to do with the fact that most racecar cages are thin at .095, 0.120" max wall tubing. Where most truck frames are 1/4", to up to 1/2" thick.
Remember too, the good old days of drag racing after WWII, most guys were building stuff with an old stick welder and a torch in their garage. So some of the rules go back that far and might not even be relevant today in the same sense.
I’m sorry to say I meet and seen a lot of welders. You are a welder and better then over 50% of the so called welders out there !
"Manufacturer's recommendations"
I have two GM 4500s. They're both Bay Bridge conversions and both frames are extended after the rear spring mounts. The "factory" frame extensions are just random pieces of mismatched frame stick welded directly to the end of the factory rails. Just butted up to the factory vertical cut. Everything is torch cut and the welds look like they were done with a car battery and coat hanger. Both trucks are 14,000 gvw.
Your frame extensions and quality of work are done far above what GM's own outfitters do. It will be stronger, safer and definitely prettier.
many of these conversion companies just butcher a truck. i have seen so many with self induced issues.
I always look at any weld repair as how I can get the best possible weld that I am capable of. Sometimes it’s stick weld sometimes it’s wire. 7018 is only better if you can weld 7018
agreed. hard to believe the 7018 rod wouldnt meet the tensile strength of the frame rating on this little gvwr truck frame but it doesnt.
Boom. Grand Design 5th wheel company should pay you about $200k consulting fee and show their engineers this video 🤣👌😁.
Excellent lecture today 👍. Oh how we all seem to end up with a lifer truck sometimes that just won't go away
The old saying grinder and paint makes me welder I ain’t hides a lot of sins. Lol
Lots of good info. That you make easy to understand
i love the horizontal cutt design i have seen it done a few times its said to be alot stronger and the ones ive seen done a 16 bolt frame crossmembers is added right in the horizontal cutt with 8 bolts top 8 bolts bottom per side for added strength i would love to know J.C though on this method
Well J.C., I can confidently say that I think I learned more from this single video than watching all the “fluff” they film on those car shows like on the discovery channel and motortrend.
Speaking of welding I don’t know if you got my photos I sent you the other day, but I picked up an ESAB “Mig master” 251. Any thoughts on quality/reliability of the ESAB brand of welders?
i dont watch the "non" reality tv junk. smoke and mirrors. i did not see anything about a welder. i cant say anything good or bad about esab as i am not a welder and i have never owned one. definitely a popular brand. i have seen many manufactures use them.
hello J.C & Mrs. Smith & it's is Randy and i like yours video is cool & Thanks J.C. & Mrs Smith & Friends Randy
great video
I absolutely love your work JC and the way you explain things I learned so much just listening to you I can't wait to really meet you cuz when I do I'm going under an internship as well as partnership with you if you will allow me cuz the way I see it I will make the both of us look good by helping you look good period 💯💯👍👍
im working on retirement plans now. one day i will have a big auction and sell everything that is left.
nice video bro
Was hoping for a top secret clip of walking out of harbor freight at the end 🤣
I did notice a "huskie" air compressor behind the truck cab....
@@donaldcampbell5277 that’s from Home Depot, I got the same one in my cargo trailer for small stuff
Most likely a properly welded joint will exceed the strength of the frame any way, the only thing I would add would be pre heat and post heat. gm lists their strength any where between 50ksi and 120 ksi. since this truck is fairly low gvwr and was sold to a luxury up-fitter, my guess your on the lower end of the spectrum. it is fairly common practice to downrate filler material to get a more ductile weld ex.. most people weld 4130 with 70 or 80 ksi to make a more ductile joint. note: not engineering or welding advise, just a guy that can put metal together and have it look acceptable.
when i am considering a stretch, i look up the psi of the frame. i was surprised to see this was an 80k frame. like you, i figured 50ish.
Great work. Could you run a double outside on the side and bottom just past splice that will also take up the bag mount to spread the bags load to frame a bit
probably could but if i was going to add something it would be to the inside with a top and bottom flange.
Sounds like a great plan J.C 😎👍
It will be bullet proof, even though you are not a welder.
I’m ignorant on the internet, how could I locate this truck on I assume your dealer/ business page? I’ve looked and can’t find anything
Flux core done right is hard to beat 😊
Would you be able to give us the wire specks and heat settings that you are using for the extentions is your liner if used truck frame or isit ever mild steel. I did hear you say you are not a welder but I still am interested in your process. Keep up the good videos.
i will share the entire procedure. from setting up the machine, to what wire, what mix of gas, flow meter settings, pre welding prep, the procedure itself, the order and the direction we weld.
A 17 minute video on nothing but truck frame?
Sign me up!
👍👍
Yes your right in what your saying 👍
Having started out in a shop that did alot of frame work i have leaned things that many dont know from people that learned the hard way cutting a frame to change wheel base double frame, back half everyone has a thought and everyone else is wrong what i leaned pre heat and post heat helps for repairs like around torque arm mounts i work on refuse trucks those things get worked and center crossmembers for walking beams crack i welded some up some times they hold up for a bit butt now its too bad get a new crossmember iam not welding them anymore and ya done with others telling me that everytime i have to make repairs to frames chassis mack pete ih whatever brand refuse body just told the boss you want me to fix it thats fine its not something that just is a 15 minute job for a backbone that holds a 78,000 plus pound truck going hwy speed with my name on that frame weld job it will be done right or not by me the others can wiss off and dont get me started on mount lift axles dont care i put them on stait and true all kinds of ways that are right and wrong. And i picked up a few things from you as well. Dont know if you heard of this butt allways round off the inner liners the guy that i lreaned alott from siad he back halfed a semi and 5 years later the owner droped it off for the yearly dot and the liner was wearing into the frame rails that kinda stuck in my head and never be under 24 in form the center of the cut to end of liner
i see lots of breaks and cracks around torque arm mounts on heavier trucks. i end up removing the small add on plate the manufacture puts in place and install a inside full liner instead. i make it extend far enough to catch both drive axle suspension mounts and crossmembers. seems to solve the problem permanently.
Hope you finish before the Midwest Truck Show. It's coming up fast.
not looking like it. i wont compromise my plans just to meet a deadline. my son may just have to use one of my other trucks.
I’m not a welder either but if critical welds can be accomplished by flux core shielded welds why do professionals use stick when welding things like ship hulls or pipelines? This is not a snarky comment. I am asking because I consider you to be a smart guy that doesn’t half ass anything but you have a resource to bounce things off of and I assume you have asked a similar question.
dual shield is a much more expensive process to runs versus traditional stick and it is hard to use any shielding gas process out in the elements. dont know if this is a factor or not. just things that come to mind.
@@j.c.smithprojects I was thinking it was a cost reasoning. I know I have always made my best welds (both penetrating as well as bead stacking) with rods. I’m curious because I have a century class I plan on doing a frame shortening at some point so all of the knowledge is going in my brain bank. Thanks again bud.
Hi JC thank you
Interesting
What was the original
You are not a welder, you are not a fabricator, you are not a mechanic, and a la Casey ladelle, you certainly never said you were good at this. It appears you have successfully done this for a long time, though.