South of Meadowbank, (If they have the stick/lights). I've been on newer trains that have really taken off here. No DMU, not even Victroria's V/Locity can do that. from slow to well over 100 before you know it. Never noticed this until the new EMUs, but you were really got going here too. In a test and Adelaide 4000 class EMU attained 110 Km/H from stand near Lonsdale in 44 seconds.
I've watched lots of train nerd videos from all sorts of places and there's one thing that strikes me about our system, namely seemingly crude integration of tech. I recall you discussing ATB (I think) with a colleague who rode with you to his home at Emu Plains on your Central - Springwood and return video and he was pretty disparaging about it. How far had that got when you left? Another thing I find curious is the speed sign system and the whole "route knowledge" concept. Switzerland is one place where a speed sign that is advising a REDUCTION in line speed is in fact placed well ahead of where the required speed applies, the "application" of the new speed occurs where there is a different roadside sign of diagonally sloped black lines. The obvious advantage of this system is the driver is given more than enough warning to reduce their speed to the upcoming limit. Unless I've misunderstood it, our system requires you to be AT the new speed limit WHEN YOU PASS the sign. Is that correct? The obvious problem is what if you can't see the sign? What if you can't see it until it's close enough that cutting your speed from current line speed to the new limit is impossible or requires pretty significant application of braking? My understanding is that's why there's such an emphasis on "line knowledge". I gather we inherited this from the UK where it's seen as a point of pride. At the risk of making myself unpopular, that strikes me as a very poor design philosophy. First of all, specialised roles ALWAYS result in reduced efficiency across an organisation. Within the context of a railway, the ideal would be any driver being able to drive any train safely on any line. ANY condition in the way of that is an operational inefficiency. If it's TRULY necessary for drivers to "learn" a route, it's because the system is poorly designed. The Swiss system I mentioned ought to remove much of that argument, for example, because ANY driver at line speed will always be prevented with advance warning of a reduced speed zone ahead. If the network has a finite number of drivers "qualified" for a route, what happens if too many of them are on regular and sick leaves so there aren't enough drivers to cover the schedule? On a system where any driver can drive any route, you can shift drivers around as necessary. That's better for customers, no questions. Secondly, and pardon me for saying it, I can't help but wonder if part of the "route knowledge/training" philosophy isn't partly a tactic used in the struggle between management and drivers. Don't get me wrong, I've been on both sides of that fence, starting off on the phones in a large financial institution and ultimately being responsible for all the forecasts, budgets, schedules, quality, reporting and planning for the centre. The fact I'd done the work proved invaluable as I was able to articulate both sides, the commercial pressures within a budget but also the realities of doing the work. It enabled me, plus my head of the division, and senior management above her, to and up with greatly improved performance PLUS significantly improved staff rewards in recognition. Obviously there are differences in train sets that drivers would need to know, but again I'd have thought a "well designed system" would ensure no driver is in any train set without being able to operate it correctly in terms of controlling speed (duh, lol), so that ought not be a problem. I cannot, however, see any virtue from a customer or management perspective on drivers being required to be "certified" for any given line. An interesting industry comparison is that of commercial airline pilots. Yes they have to know how to operate the specific aircraft (and indeed they're not allowed to hold current certification on multiple types at any point, so a B-777 pilot cannot hold a current certification for a B-737 for example). Other than that? It doesn't matter WHERE they fly because ATC rules are pretty much the same all over the world. There are SOME airports with peculiarities such that a captain has to be trained and specifically qualified, and always handle all landings, I believe they make up a tiny fraction of the thousands of airports across the world. Pardon my rambling, but I was thinking about this stuff as I sit here watching so thought I'd chew up some time sharing it to see if you or anyone else cares to comment. I'm not claiming to have all the answers or even all the questions, my intent was simply to list some thoughts and see what comes back. Cheers
ATP - Automatic Train Protection. As far as I'm aware it hasn't progressed very far. The railways are a huge bureaucracy with a multitude of departments and divisions and has been through numerous restructures and no one knows who's responsible for what. All in the name of saving money and "efficiency". Yes, you had to be doing the speed limit as you passed the sign. Road knowledge was key. I wouldn't say it was a source of pride per se, it was just you had to know in order to do the job. Drivers in the past had suggested the diagonal stripe system - particularly in tunnels - so 3 stripes 300m out from the station, 2 stripes at 200m, 1 stripe at 100m, but management knocked it back on the grounds of "the driver should know the route". Railways in NSW have imported a lot of their systems and operations from the UK. And to be fair a lot of arcane rules exist around 'safeworking' because after every major incident they try to foolproof it so a similar incident can't happen again. But one cannot use the words "railway, efficiency, management" in the same sentence without a lot of swearing.
Yes, they go to the old coal unloader for Vales Point power station. Coal would be unloaded there and then carried by conveyer belt to the power station.
Looking at the hold up at Wyong I'm curious as to why they had you sitting at that set of lights instead of on the platform. There was nothing to prevent you reaching the appropriate stopping point at the head of the platform as you wouldn't have SPAD issues and wouldn't prevent the late running service crossing ahead of you. Any reason why they stop you outside the station instead of in it? I assume there's some sort of rule I don't know of? As an aside, I'm wondering if it's a rule that's been around forever and nobody's stopped to ask if it makes sense in this (and many other) context as is often the case in large organisations. I used to be a compliance manager in a financial services company and the amount of bad operational habits/rules that were blamed on "compliance reasons" was quite remarkable. I spent as much time as I could afford going through things with ops to remove pointless obstacles to efficiency. Watching this again while locked up due to the "beer-bug" ;-D
I don't recall on that specific occasion. But the most likely reason was that the signaller already had the road set for the terminating service with interlocks in place and 2 block protection, and couldn't be bothered to reset to let me in, and have to set it up again.
"Your browser does not currently recognize any of the video formats available. Click here to visit our frequently asked questions about HTML5 video" Honestly...over a decade viewing RUclips...never struck that! Did you just upload the camera footage or did you process it first?
That whistling sound from the brake release is so distinctive. Is there a reason why this is only 360p when the other journey was available in higher def? 360p is pretty awful on the widescreen TV I use for my monitor, lol. Curious to know which you preferred as driver, the V-set or the Oscar and why? Cheers
Thanks for bringing that to my attention! I hadn't realised. Will look into it. As to sets, I enjoyed driving both. The V sets were more challenging, particularly if you ended up with a mixed set (half pilot motor, half chopper). I always describe it to non- train people as the difference between driving a classic manual car and a modern automatic car.
@@AlistairHarding Thanks. My somewhat classic car just hit 385,000km and is a 5-speed, so I guess I'm somewhat biased lol. Remember the V-sets fondly, the Oscars while modern etc are rather boring and I find them less comfortable in a hard to define way.
Really enjoyed the return from Newcastle trip. I also enjoyed the fact it was before the line right to Newcastle was closed. A couple of comments if I may. Was the main reason they closed the line completely to Newcastle because of freight going through the centre of Newcastle and the constant closing of all the level crossings? I realize this is a political hot potato and I have visited Newcastle since the Light Rail opened and I did enjoy that too. I, personally would love to see more rail freight and unless trucks on the roads. But I am guessing the oil companies want to sell more diesel...it feels a bit like why the old trams were taken off when they wanted to sell more cars etc. Amazed to see this train actually stop at Eastwood! That must have been a rare thing. Also noticed this trip was only 2.5 hours. How often are the up or down trips shorter than at least 3 hours? Thanks very much for this. Is there a video from the Drier's cabin of Eastern Suburbs railway please in Sydney of course? Look forward to more from this service. I have subscribed.
G'day Geoffrey, thanks for your comments/questions. The closure was stated because of high volume of traffic through the level crossings and the heavy rail "dividing" the city from the harbour. Most people are cynical of that and think it was more related to property development in the area. It was actually very common for the Intercity trains to stop at both Eastwood and Epping, at least at the time I was driving. Epping kind of made sense at the because of the link to Chatswood. Eastwood never made sense - it was well serviced by Suburban trains. We all understood it was a political decision. Express services were around 2.5 hours, non express around 3 hours. I don't think I've got any of Eastern Suburbs myself, but I'm pretty sure there's some out there. All the best.
@@AlistairHarding Thanks Alistair noted about the naughty kids throwing rocks at the train at one stage (we missed that thank goodness) I hope they got their hides tanned or other parts squeezed! I am so pleased I finally got signed up properly so I can comment etc. I always wanted to be a tram or train river, but alas my sight and hearing knocked that on the head. I subscribed. Thanks.
Hastily conceived thought bubble with no positive business case that has resulted in years of disruption to Newcastle CBD and the only people benefited in the long run are the developers.
They're demoting, if you will, the busiest commuter line where I live to short(!) driverless metros _à la_ Sydney's (4 cars long during rush hours; 2, all other times).
Thanks for This Post, Miss the Old Trains to Newcastle, Newer Trains are Cheap n Uncomfortable, Miss the Old Camo Green Seats too, Purple is just Sickeningly Grose.. Anyways Thanks for the Memories.. 🕊️🌿⛵🏖️🌄💗🐳💗🌄🏖️⛵🌿🕊️
I moved to Nelson Bay from Melbourne in 2015 and tried to find the Newcastle Railway Station. There wasn't one that I could find. Where do you meet visitors who come by train? All I could find was an "Interchange" under construction. Now that it's built, where's the parking? If this is an interchange, then I'm the greatest sex goddess the world has ever seen. And I'm not female. What's going on here?
You will have to stop playing music good vid though thanks Newcastle to central where is my chips and hamburger that I usually have with a choc milkshake on this trip
I actually used to, quite a lot. But RUclips has a very strict policy around copyright and several videos I tried to upload were knocked back on the grounds they had copyrighted material in them. (It's an automated process, for the most part). Hence I had to re-edit the videos and totally mute all sections where I had music playing.
Not hearing the ambient sounds of the train and the ride does detract from the overall enjoyment of the video in my view. After a while, watching what is effectively a silent movie becomes a little tedious, which is a pity because the video itself is well shot and interesting. I would happily forgo the music.
no audio except in one or two spots
good to see stations identified
Great video, lots of curves, speed limit changes and traffic. Interesting landscape too. Thank you.
5:14 this place is now a massive interchange, changed so quick omfg 😳
I wondered when you would be uploading your next. Keep them coming - gratefully appreciated ;-)
Interesting video, sadly I am blind and was hoping for more radio communications, also no station announcements? Cheers.
South of Meadowbank, (If they have the stick/lights). I've been on newer trains that have really taken off here.
No DMU, not even Victroria's V/Locity can do that. from slow to well over 100 before you know it.
Never noticed this until the new EMUs, but you were really got going here too.
In a test and Adelaide 4000 class EMU attained 110 Km/H from stand near Lonsdale in 44 seconds.
well these are 50yo trains, give em a break
@@gachafoxie6526 You should learn how electric motors work. Modern EMU have higher performance.
Videos not working for some reason
What browser are you using? It will not work on Internet Explorer. You need Chrome or similar
@@firstfreeone Doesn't work for me on Chrome or Firefox.
0:17 that run sheet
used to be on this every day for years
I don't suppose anyone is aware of a similar video for Newcastle to Maitland?
Beautiful. But consider to go 4k. It adds to the quality and video will last longer.
I've watched lots of train nerd videos from all sorts of places and there's one thing that strikes me about our system, namely seemingly crude integration of tech. I recall you discussing ATB (I think) with a colleague who rode with you to his home at Emu Plains on your Central - Springwood and return video and he was pretty disparaging about it. How far had that got when you left?
Another thing I find curious is the speed sign system and the whole "route knowledge" concept.
Switzerland is one place where a speed sign that is advising a REDUCTION in line speed is in fact placed well ahead of where the required speed applies, the "application" of the new speed occurs where there is a different roadside sign of diagonally sloped black lines. The obvious advantage of this system is the driver is given more than enough warning to reduce their speed to the upcoming limit.
Unless I've misunderstood it, our system requires you to be AT the new speed limit WHEN YOU PASS the sign. Is that correct?
The obvious problem is what if you can't see the sign? What if you can't see it until it's close enough that cutting your speed from current line speed to the new limit is impossible or requires pretty significant application of braking?
My understanding is that's why there's such an emphasis on "line knowledge". I gather we inherited this from the UK where it's seen as a point of pride.
At the risk of making myself unpopular, that strikes me as a very poor design philosophy.
First of all, specialised roles ALWAYS result in reduced efficiency across an organisation. Within the context of a railway, the ideal would be any driver being able to drive any train safely on any line. ANY condition in the way of that is an operational inefficiency. If it's TRULY necessary for drivers to "learn" a route, it's because the system is poorly designed. The Swiss system I mentioned ought to remove much of that argument, for example, because ANY driver at line speed will always be prevented with advance warning of a reduced speed zone ahead.
If the network has a finite number of drivers "qualified" for a route, what happens if too many of them are on regular and sick leaves so there aren't enough drivers to cover the schedule? On a system where any driver can drive any route, you can shift drivers around as necessary. That's better for customers, no questions.
Secondly, and pardon me for saying it, I can't help but wonder if part of the "route knowledge/training" philosophy isn't partly a tactic used in the struggle between management and drivers. Don't get me wrong, I've been on both sides of that fence, starting off on the phones in a large financial institution and ultimately being responsible for all the forecasts, budgets, schedules, quality, reporting and planning for the centre. The fact I'd done the work proved invaluable as I was able to articulate both sides, the commercial pressures within a budget but also the realities of doing the work. It enabled me, plus my head of the division, and senior management above her, to and up with greatly improved performance PLUS significantly improved staff rewards in recognition.
Obviously there are differences in train sets that drivers would need to know, but again I'd have thought a "well designed system" would ensure no driver is in any train set without being able to operate it correctly in terms of controlling speed (duh, lol), so that ought not be a problem. I cannot, however, see any virtue from a customer or management perspective on drivers being required to be "certified" for any given line.
An interesting industry comparison is that of commercial airline pilots. Yes they have to know how to operate the specific aircraft (and indeed they're not allowed to hold current certification on multiple types at any point, so a B-777 pilot cannot hold a current certification for a B-737 for example). Other than that? It doesn't matter WHERE they fly because ATC rules are pretty much the same all over the world. There are SOME airports with peculiarities such that a captain has to be trained and specifically qualified, and always handle all landings, I believe they make up a tiny fraction of the thousands of airports across the world.
Pardon my rambling, but I was thinking about this stuff as I sit here watching so thought I'd chew up some time sharing it to see if you or anyone else cares to comment. I'm not claiming to have all the answers or even all the questions, my intent was simply to list some thoughts and see what comes back.
Cheers
ATP - Automatic Train Protection. As far as I'm aware it hasn't progressed very far. The railways are a huge bureaucracy with a multitude of departments and divisions and has been through numerous restructures and no one knows who's responsible for what. All in the name of saving money and "efficiency".
Yes, you had to be doing the speed limit as you passed the sign. Road knowledge was key. I wouldn't say it was a source of pride per se, it was just you had to know in order to do the job. Drivers in the past had suggested the diagonal stripe system - particularly in tunnels - so 3 stripes 300m out from the station, 2 stripes at 200m, 1 stripe at 100m, but management knocked it back on the grounds of "the driver should know the route".
Railways in NSW have imported a lot of their systems and operations from the UK. And to be fair a lot of arcane rules exist around 'safeworking' because after every major incident they try to foolproof it so a similar incident can't happen again. But one cannot use the words "railway, efficiency, management" in the same sentence without a lot of swearing.
2014 ~ years before the pandemic 😢🦠
And months before the closure of the line to Newcastle :'(
This video isnt working for me
How long you be driving trains for? U sets are intercity trains as well V and H sets are current ones
I have noticed some private rail tracks when going down to Sydney. 48:00 for example. Do you know what they are for?
Yes, they go to the old coal unloader for Vales Point power station. Coal would be unloaded there and then carried by conveyer belt to the power station.
last time i went down this line was around 2010
It closed 2014 or something
Looking at the hold up at Wyong I'm curious as to why they had you sitting at that set of lights instead of on the platform. There was nothing to prevent you reaching the appropriate stopping point at the head of the platform as you wouldn't have SPAD issues and wouldn't prevent the late running service crossing ahead of you.
Any reason why they stop you outside the station instead of in it? I assume there's some sort of rule I don't know of?
As an aside, I'm wondering if it's a rule that's been around forever and nobody's stopped to ask if it makes sense in this (and many other) context as is often the case in large organisations. I used to be a compliance manager in a financial services company and the amount of bad operational habits/rules that were blamed on "compliance reasons" was quite remarkable. I spent as much time as I could afford going through things with ops to remove pointless obstacles to efficiency.
Watching this again while locked up due to the "beer-bug" ;-D
I don't recall on that specific occasion. But the most likely reason was that the signaller already had the road set for the terminating service with interlocks in place and 2 block protection, and couldn't be bothered to reset to let me in, and have to set it up again.
What happened to the sound on the video
"Your browser does not currently recognize any of the video formats available.
Click here to visit our frequently asked questions about HTML5 video"
Honestly...over a decade viewing RUclips...never struck that!
Did you just upload the camera footage or did you process it first?
That whistling sound from the brake release is so distinctive.
Is there a reason why this is only 360p when the other journey was available in higher def? 360p is pretty awful on the widescreen TV I use for my monitor, lol.
Curious to know which you preferred as driver, the V-set or the Oscar and why?
Cheers
Thanks for bringing that to my attention! I hadn't realised. Will look into it.
As to sets, I enjoyed driving both. The V sets were more challenging, particularly if you ended up with a mixed set (half pilot motor, half chopper). I always describe it to non- train people as the difference between driving a classic manual car and a modern automatic car.
@@AlistairHarding
Thanks. My somewhat classic car just hit 385,000km and is a 5-speed, so I guess I'm somewhat biased lol. Remember the V-sets fondly, the Oscars while modern etc are rather boring and I find them less comfortable in a hard to define way.
Really enjoyed the return from Newcastle trip. I also enjoyed the fact it was before the line right to Newcastle was closed. A couple of comments if I may. Was the main reason they closed the line completely to Newcastle because of freight going through the centre of Newcastle and the constant closing of all the level crossings? I realize this is a political hot potato and I have visited Newcastle since the Light Rail opened and I did enjoy that too. I, personally would love to see more rail freight and unless trucks on the roads. But I am guessing the oil companies want to sell more diesel...it feels a bit like why the old trams were taken off when they wanted to sell more cars etc. Amazed to see this train actually stop at Eastwood! That must have been a rare thing. Also noticed this trip was only 2.5 hours. How often are the up or down trips shorter than at least 3 hours? Thanks very much for this. Is there a video from the Drier's cabin of Eastern Suburbs railway please in Sydney of course? Look forward to more from this service. I have subscribed.
G'day Geoffrey, thanks for your comments/questions.
The closure was stated because of high volume of traffic through the level crossings and the heavy rail "dividing" the city from the harbour. Most people are cynical of that and think it was more related to property development in the area.
It was actually very common for the Intercity trains to stop at both Eastwood and Epping, at least at the time I was driving. Epping kind of made sense at the because of the link to Chatswood. Eastwood never made sense - it was well serviced by Suburban trains. We all understood it was a political decision.
Express services were around 2.5 hours, non express around 3 hours.
I don't think I've got any of Eastern Suburbs myself, but I'm pretty sure there's some out there. All the best.
@@AlistairHarding Thanks Alistair noted about the naughty kids throwing rocks at the train at one stage (we missed that thank goodness) I hope they got their hides tanned or other parts squeezed! I am so pleased I finally got signed up properly so I can comment etc. I always wanted to be a tram or train river, but alas my sight and hearing knocked that on the head. I subscribed. Thanks.
Video not working
This video doesn't work
Neither does the featured railway, trust us mate ;)
What wrong with train 2:04
Nothing is wrong with it as it's does an afternoon run to Gosford
Nice video! I love cab-views! What is your opinion of light rail replacing heavy rail?
Hastily conceived thought bubble with no positive business case that has resulted in years of disruption to Newcastle CBD and the only people benefited in the long run are the developers.
They're demoting, if you will, the busiest commuter line where I live to short(!) driverless metros _à la_ Sydney's (4 cars long during rush hours; 2, all other times).
Thanks for This Post, Miss the Old Trains to Newcastle, Newer Trains are Cheap n Uncomfortable, Miss the Old Camo Green Seats too, Purple is just Sickeningly Grose.. Anyways Thanks for the Memories.. 🕊️🌿⛵🏖️🌄💗🐳💗🌄🏖️⛵🌿🕊️
They are demoting
@@trainrover That is not true, Sydney Metro runs 6 car Metro trains all day and night, and runs 15 trains an hour in peak 6 trains an hour off peak.
@ 3:04: Socialist Alliance headquarters off to the left. Appropriate.
This video still does not work I don't know what the others are watching 💩
What browser are you using? It will not work on Internet Explorer. You need Chrome or similar
I moved to Nelson Bay from Melbourne in 2015 and tried to find the Newcastle Railway Station. There wasn't one that I could find. Where do you meet visitors who come by train? All I could find was an "Interchange" under construction. Now that it's built, where's the parking? If this is an interchange, then I'm the greatest sex goddess the world has ever seen. And I'm not female. What's going on here?
You will have to stop playing music good vid though thanks Newcastle to central where is my chips and hamburger that I usually have with a choc milkshake on this trip
You do not play music in the cab when filming. Very annoying to say the least.
I actually used to, quite a lot. But RUclips has a very strict policy around copyright and several videos I tried to upload were knocked back on the grounds they had copyrighted material in them. (It's an automated process, for the most part). Hence I had to re-edit the videos and totally mute all sections where I had music playing.
Not hearing the ambient sounds of the train and the ride does detract from the overall enjoyment of the video in my view. After a while, watching what is effectively a silent movie becomes a little tedious, which is a pity because the video itself is well shot and interesting. I would happily forgo the music.
this is bull shit I've seen other video's from Central to Newcastle so why don't you fix the problem and I make no apologies