You (probably) don't know what a BAD FIGHTING GAME CHARACTER is
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- Опубликовано: 19 май 2021
- #lordknight #DBFZ #Blazblue
I have mentioned in DBFZ tier list videos about how if you only play DBFZ, you haven't experienced a truly bad fighting game character.
Let me introduce you to one, friends.
The Problem With Goku Black - • The problem with Goku ...
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Whenever someone says "tiers aren't real" I immediately want to sit them down and have them play mvc2, and try to fight sentinel as roll. I literally don't think it's possible to lose if both players are trying legit.
Tiers are based on high level play.
@@bruceleeds7988 In games like Marvel, character strengths are so distinct that you will 100% notice it as a casual. If you and a friend learned MVC2 for a week, then did the above matchup, there is no fucking way the Sentinel player is losing. At all.
@@bruceleeds7988 no. ruclips.net/video/6mBNdB-mrGk/видео.html
To give you an idea even my scrubby literally didn't understand the basic of fighting games ass back then could tell that Cable was busted when I just faced rolled viper beam and invalidate most fights. The differences in good and bad characters in mvc2 is massive as it comes down to obvious stuff like hit boxes or damage rather then something like SFV where one season Karin was considered so good largely because she had 1 additional frame available to cancel cr.mk into special giving her better hit confirms since that frame was enough to make it reactable.
I remember unironically trying to get Roll to work way back. I uh... very quickly gave that venture up.
The collective FGC memory is wiped with every new release. That's why the previous game will always be "the glory days of real FGC that didn't hold your hands and where top players were actually killers" and the new game is always "dumbed down for casuals really neutered gameplay where scrubs can make it to the top unlike the OGs" .. Repeat till the end of time.
is it because newer titles have more forgiving frame inputs, or more reliable way to get combo and damage? Or is it that they've gotten so good that newer games are much easier in comparison. Or is it because of Anime Arena fighter (excluding Kill la Kill)
@@xidjav1836 It's just a generational thing. Every generation thinks the next one has it easy.
@@Crescent-Adam ah ok
you telling me bb adding auto combos or sfv removing 1-2 frames isnt dumbing down games
@@xXEmo54Xx are you telling is that MVC2 magic chaining every move, simplyfying supers down from double direction inputs to single direction input + 2buttons, 1 button assists, 2 button dashes and super tags isn't dumbing down games?
Kami's zamasu hate transcends channels. What a legend
Eyyyyy~
i need an LK video about his history with BlazBlue
Thats a documentary
He needs to do blazblue character guides. I love playing Amane in bbcf
@@dudethisusername7285
I'd love to see his guides for BBCF, characters are so cool, unique and intricate in Blazblue
@@chazaqiel2319 He could make a great guide for Kokonoe. Like an advance, hour long guide, covering all her stuff. Bbcf is crazy fun but they lack that 'casual youtube' presence. What I mean is, in fighterz, you got a lot of stuff on youtube that you can just look up and watch, to help you. Bbcf has way less of that, so it's hard to get someone into the game when it's difficult to just find a great guide for bbcf characters, with a host you KNOW that he knows his shit.
@@dudethisusername7285
Absolutely, BBCF's niche nature is the biggest obstacle to getting into it. While the internal resources are really good, with the challenge mode teaching you combos and the tutorial mode giving you some nice neutral tips, it's not nearly enough to replace a guide like, say, something from Rooflemonger for DBFZ. I hope BBCF eventually gets rollback, because that game deserves a renaissance like GGXX, arguably even more
For alot of people who say that, FighterZ is their first fighting game. Honestly one of the easiest fighting games ever. So for them, there ARE bad characters because they haven't played enough fighting games to even know what a bad character is. When I heard people comparing ZBroly to Vergil and Dark Phoenix I knew most people have not played other games. You make a mistake against Vergil in Marvel you can lose 3 characters in 10-15 seconds. You lose an entire match in 15 seconds. YOU WILL NEVER SEE THAT IN FIGHTERZ. High level matches in FighterZ take FOREVER!! I've heard FighterZ players say some pretty off the wall shit when it comes to this game but no. There are no bad characters in this. Hell even matchups arent that bad. If you wanna see a bad matchup? Watch Fchamp vs Kaneblueriver when all the drama started. When he played Magneto and pushed that man Haggar away the entire match and ran just to prove a point that the character sucked and couldn't touch him if he tried. Haggar by no means sucks but thats an example of a bad matchup. These types of matchups dont exist in FighterZ. The game is pretty balanced. The "worst" characters in this game are still waaaay better than the worst characters in many other fighting games.
Yeah, Goku Black is functionally a complete character. His kit is finished and even has a fair bit of utility. Goku Black is perfectly capable of "playing DBFZ", which makes him leagues better then, say, SSBM Bowser or MVC1 Roll.
Imo there is a significant difference between a character with sound design but is undertuned compared to the rest of the cast and a character who has a fundamentally flawed design for the game they are in. Goku Black is firmly in the former box.
Fighterz players: "How did they make Zamasu so bad?"
Third Strike Players: *Laughs in Sean's intentional downgrade from Second Impact.*
they absolutely butchered my boy
After Leon's video people at least know about Twelve
Why am I negative on hit?!?
We gotta get DBFZ players there, somehow
Gotta say that Leon video has some pretty large chunks of pure misinformation, and he made a follow-up comment to the video after some people complained. Still entertaining tho, and twelve is so terrible that he's still not exactly *wrong*, he just focused on weird bits.
@@leithazizpagy4699 the GG video is definitely a lot more egregious in terms misinfo and how hard he goes on re-defining the term "rushdown" but idk that twelve video is more annoying to me because of how popular it is, and how it got so little pushback in comparison to the GG video.
What’s the video you guys are talking about
Ah yes, I was a diehard Tager main in the early Blazblue games. It was depressing going against the games many strong zoners when you are a massive hurtbox that can't dash BUT it was satisfying landing Genesic Emerald Tager Buster and taking like 60% of Rachel's lifebar with that grab super.
Isn't Tager pretty good in later games?
@@WaterZer0 He did get better but more by virtue of there being more new characters who just happened to be bad against him specifically regardless of their overall power against the rest of the cast. He still had his usual problems against the zoners and top tiers who didn't need to commit to going in. Rachel, Arakune, Lambda, Carl and Hazama have consistently been problem matchups for him in almost every installment even when those characters were a bit less powerful than some of their earlier incarnations and with Tager getting gradually more tools but not enough to completely fix these matchups.
On the flip side there was a time where Makoto and Noel in Continuum Shift 2 were easily the best characters in the entire game with no real bad matchups against anyone except for Tager and against each other being even. Tager sucked against a lot of the cast but was funnily enough good against those 2 specific top tiers.
Tager's gameplay concept is so cool though
Your right I have blaz blue central fiction and tager concept is good but if you don't know how to deal with him. He legit lives up to his name red devil
Agreed. In fact, in later installations of the series, where they gave him more tools to deal with his weaknesses, his design really gets to shine. Probably one of, if not the best designed grappler in any fighting game
@@chazaqiel2319 Yea he really comes into his own in the later games in the series
I still think he's mediocre In cross tag
@@mouthwash3804 nope, he is bottom 3. and bbtag balance is wack.
As a Tager main since CT I can confirm that Nu matchup is nothing short of hell
He may move slow, he can’t jump high. But Tager is one hell of a guy
Come on Ragna, take it to the fridge!
Would love to see videos about Arakune/Nu/how utterly cursed the first few BB games were in retrospect.
I think it was CT Arakune that Dogura covered recently. Also did an Izanami video. No translation though, sadly.
But dude, you should do a series on the dumb shit from bb. I remember seeing you do a lot of dumb shit like the makoto infinite a day after she came out at rils place.
I day one mained Arakune when my scene got into BB, and my best friend at the time did the same... For Tager. Day two he mained Ragna lmao
Arc was well-aware of Iron Tager's general weaknesses as a classic grappler, that being mid-to-long range. Spark Bolt and his Magnetism gimmick show that they tried to make him a less vulnerable choice against pretty much anyone else in the roster. But they didn't consider his options of retaliation on higher ranges. Outside of his 2D, he has literally no mobility options, and clever players can use his magnetism to their advantage and get their hitboxes just pulled into his face. A sitting duck can hit as hard as a truck, but if the opponent can just sit outside and do whatever without interference, that sitting duck is just a duck. By Centralfiction, he's still kinda boned against any projectile-user, but not quite as frustratingly so as he was in Calamity Trigger.
Guilty Gear's Potemkin, by direct comparison, has no projectiles, but a variety of mobility options and super-armored specials to break through many moves, but he takes a lot of practice and patience.
That's why tag fighters are so important nowadays, at least for newcomers. It allows people to compensate for weaknesses in their mains with sheer cleverness and skill, meaning you get more varied matchups in online play, at tournaments, and even on the couch with your friends. And I say that as someone who despises tag fighters.
when i heard you say "Iron Tager" i had a heart attack
I have waited long for this video; the title of it was leaked on stream not long ago.
Thank you for this blessing, my lord.
I crossed this video and have since dropped off playing fighting games, but I remember playing Astraroth a lot back during this game launch/life span (around 8k matches using tager only by the time CS was coming out). The forums that I was a mod for complained alot about Tager being the most op character ever; a few of us that was on DL and that site, tried to explain the approaching and how bad bursting the first time something goes wrong was a bad idea basically was ignored. I really enjoyed this game back in the day.
Damn, I didn't know how deep the trash bin was for BBCT Tager. The corner bit really got me good.
'We don't say poor grapplers' most important quote of this whole video.
I feel a good one would be on matchups in general. Feels like I see too many people go "Z Broly vs Frieza" is a 9-1 matchup without knowing what that is.
But anyway, low tiers in this game are basically just in a "Not as good" tier.
BB is the only time I dropped a character because they felt so unfair it wasn’t as fun.
Hahahahaha I feel that bro
Team games like DBFZ and Marvel 3 don't have bad characters. Only good ones and broken ones.
morgidoom and zmc flash backs
And goku black
And games like tekken dont have bad characters
Just simple and complex ones
Ironically all the top tiers are the simples in tekken unless a complex character is overtuned
tager mains suffered through all of that in bbct just to get those glorious tager busters. i remember seeing threads upon threads of people complaining about tager being OP back then. and here i was, the degenerate that used nu as indicated by my profile pic. good times.
Watched the whole video and learned something new today! Good stuff.
We gotta get a Koko vid that character was truly ignant
Wow after seeing Nu-13, all I have to say is that someone at Arcysys is a Gundam fan.
Have you seen justice?
GN Fangs? I don't really see the similarities besides she being robotic and having remotes. May be based on Gundam 00, I guess.
@@funkopapa8223 Now THAT'S a true Gundam. Complete with a High Mega Cannon.
@Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte Your point? GN Fangs are melee remotes. Only thing we had before that were missile funnels and Super DRAGOONs, which aren't popular.
BuT mUh UnIvErSaL cEntUry LoOk Im 60 YeArs OlD
This is a great video. People definitely need to understand this more.
Tager was hype though. His English voice actor was sick too.
"You're within my estimates."
@@-THE_META I wish he went to cons.
Was?
always has been.
No joke, I clicked on this video just to see how you would say that Goku Black was a bad character, and was pleasantly surprised. Good job 👍
Me, who've played Twelve in 3rd strike for years:
Bold words, I see u chose the safe option with "probably".
Whenever u hit someone with a full screen projectile and get punished by chun li... thats when ur a "bad character"
Oh my god! I was laughing way too hard at this entire video. Even if this is talking about the difference between "bad characters" and bad characters it was still funny and got the point across very well! I'd love to see one for an actually broken character/s compared to a Dragonball character! Regardless thank you for the fantastic content and hope the rest of your day goes well!
The way I see it, most fighting game characters fall into 5 tiers of balance:
overpowered, strong, balanced, weak, and dysfunctional.
Most characters are going to fall into the middle 3 tiers simply due to how strong they inately are in the context of their games. And you very rarely see characters end up Overpowered or Dysfunctional in a modern fighters since it's way easier to balance modern fighting games.
*laughs in UI Goku*
@Corbin Page @Nobody comments are not funny you troglodyte I said "very rarely" for a reason. It definitely still happens, just not a constant stream of them like with old school fighters.
Liking the more casual videos with analysis. Enjoy just watching you laugh and have fun :)
Awesome video like usual LK I love your content
You did a great job my friend you just earned your self a subscriber
The difference is that since DBFZ characters all have strong universal mechanics and little differentiation, the power differences matter more for the worse characters that just have better versions of themselves. In BBCT, there is no "better Tager" why there are multiple characters who could qualify as "Better SSJ Goku".
It's easier to make a balanced game when characters are more similar, but then the balance differences matter more as why choose Character A when Character B does what they want to do in almost the exact same way but better?
7:50 To be pedantic, the thing about not be able to block moves in the air is wrong.
In CT like 90% of grounded _were air blockable!_
In CS they changed it around so that 90% of grounded moves are air barrier blockable only!
(This is also when they changed Burst from deleting your Barrier Gauge)
Holy shit. Seeing the tag Lord Qua took me back lol
Class with LK my favorite
BlazBlue was my first fighting game, I mained Tager. I used to literally disconnect whenever an Arakune showed up.
I like the vibe of this guy's channel. :D
'Bad' characters don't exist in DBFZ. Even Goku Black and Zamasu aren't so bad that they are unplayable. You can still play them and win. Difficult but possible.
If ur good enough u can win with any characters doesnt mean in comparison to the other characters they arent bad. I agree no character is unplayable in DBFZ but ur gimping urself if ur trying to compete with good players with good teams.
@@maxrusty3596 Not trying to gimp anyone. I just want to play the characters I WANT to play, regardless if they are bad or not.
@@Joshua-yc9cvAnd u can absolutely do that i just said ur only gimping ur self but its fine. I dont really like playing top tiers tbh.
@@maxrusty3596 Does gimping yourself mean handicap? I just want to be sure I actually know what gimping is if you don't mind me asking.
@@Joshua-yc9cv Yes, gimping=putting a handicap on something. I love Goku Black, and main him but playing just about anyone else would be better for me. Not unplayable, but when people say he's "bad" they mean he's someone you wouldn't pick first if you want an easier time.
I'm so glad you covered this topic. DBFZ is the first fighting game for some of my friends and they swear the bottom tiers are bad characters, to which I always disagree with "no they're not bad, just painfully average compared to what the rest of the cast has and were never brought up to speed".
I like how lk cut before tager actually reached the corner
To this day I remember back when I was new to following fighting games, in BBCS times (The sequel to this game) there was a tournament match between one of the best known Tager mains (US) vs some guy using Hazama (For those who dont know, Hazama is a character with insane mobility even for BB standards) and the match was so one sided that the Tager main just ragequit after being kited around the stage for like 50 secs. It was shocking seeing how the guy playing Hazama had total control over how the match was played, probably could have easily landed 2-3 hits and ran away from Tager until timeout.
2:36 I remember hear some of that for BB and P4A. Good times.
Edit: maybe this is just me but calling that ‘bad’ is an understatement. More like horrendous.
NGL, I clicked the vid cuz of Tager in the thumbnail. 💯
The inevitable video for us DBFZ peasants 👀
The thing about Tager and another low tier A.B.A was that even if they are low tier, once they touched you, you are in a VORTEX that you cannot escape.
"gamefaqs vs dustloop" sounds like a great time
Lowkey the best part of LK's videos are the choices in music.
Sean in third strike
Man every time you zoom on your face and go
EVIL. GOKU.
It makes me laugh. Your videos are always top tier, never trash, keep it up LK.
BB WAS THE DAYS MAN, I used to run into you on ranked a lot back in the CS days. Good times. didnt know who you were back then just knew your tag and that you were a good player.
Iron Tager was my main in BlazBlue CT back in the day. I can totally relate to everything that was said in this video. I remember Bang, Ragna and, V-13 and Litchi were top tier back then. With Bang and V-13 being the two most extreme cases like SS tier or GOD tier.
That was very very informative and fun. Seeing a trailer being abused like that was great
Tiers matter, but not as much as the player.
Tiers only tell you how much you have to work at a character. The severity difference is from game to game and, more importantly, is expounded by factors that can never be consistent
I’d love to see you make a “The Problem With UI Goku” video
Same i feel like his mix isn't really but has strong defensive mix and some mix with assist that cover his flip and obviously in my opinion best neutral in the game
Be like MK REO and do retro videos based on Blazblue content. Talk About the strong and weak stuff. Would love to watch that content.
The song choice here is just *chef's kiss
I want to see some old clips of you vs SKD sounds like fun
"You probably don't know a bad character".
Me, a 12 main in sf3 3rd strike, well do I?
Video about bad fighting game characters: showcases grappler
"hey, that's cheating!"
Tager is one of those characters where if you remove one singular move he is without a doubt the worst character in fighting game history.
In particular it's Spark Bolt.
The move itself is ridiculous, big damage, magnetizes, fast, priority out the ass, combo starter, etc.
It's also the _only option_ he has to get a far away opponent closer to him when they're not magetized.
Meaning if it was gone matchups like Nine, Nu13, Arakune, and even Hakumen of all characters would all be legitimately impossible to beat.
They'd just out range you to death.
I hear your words and they make sense, but the video makes Tager look way better than season 2 bottom tiers in dbfz. I would like that arakune video though and just videos talking about other janky characters and concepts
I still love Tager. Whole reason I played Blue Vegeta was because LV1 reminded me of 720C
CT Tager was really a bad character, if not, purely experimentation (Not sure if it was this version where most of his whiffs and blocks had noticeable negative frame advantage). Now, CF Tager is a beast with how updated the character is.
first characters that come to mind when i hear “bad character” are multiple low tiers from melee, and Servbot from MvC2 lol
It feels like I'm going crazy, but I can seem to find footage of tournaments of BBCT to save my life. Used to play with my siblings all the time, but never got the chance to play online and put in work. But yeah we never played target on account of how much he got bodied by nu-13 lol.
Great video
I just picked up bbcf and love arakune, but my friends can't stand fighting him lol. I'd love to see his own video
Can't wait for the "broken Blazblue characters" vid
The Litchi skin you used was given me made millia vibes
Oddly enough I had seen that match of you years back. I enjoyed BB quite a bit but dropped it on CS2 to return to GG. I played Tager in Blazblue CT and that character is a struggle bus. I think him being bad is overstated he wasn't as bad as people said he was that said he did have legit 8-2 and 7-3 match ups which in all practical purposes are unwinnable. I did beat weaker players in bad match ups pretty often even mu 13 and rachel which were horrid match ups some of the worst I have ever played in any game. I'd still pick tager again because I enjoyed him and I embrace the struggle of bad characters.
Wait wait wait. On that BBCT match it says Lord Quiz???? My boi Lord Quiz???
More Blazblue content, please 👀
I will continue to disguise BB vids as DBZ vids 👀
My man, loved the video but I think your audio could be improved! Main thing i hear is lots of plosives so an easy and quick fix would be to move the mic a bit farther away! Makes it sound a bit more consistent and a bit more profesh - love, a scrub and audio engineer
Wow blazgreen. Brings back some broken memories
Litchi was distracting me. Sorry LK.
I still remember my main Jiren just existing on season 2
Fuck kinda wanna go back to playing blazblue now. Hazama is just so fun.
I couldn't for the life of god beat my friend playing Tager without a zoner and we were the same level overall. It's definitely unbalanced as all hell, but not to an extent it's really a huge example of a bad character, as it's still playable in casual. Maybe Smash, MvC and Samsho are better examples of extreme character unbalance
My favorite bad character is Khan from the jojo fighting game because his biggest problem is that most of his specials and all but 4 of his normals are unusably bad, but 2 of those normal are really good and make up a workable rushdown gameplan by themselves, so he's the easiest character in the game.
His 2A is a really fast, really long low poke. His jC is a fast, high attack with a huge hitbox in front and below Khan. Most of playing khan is just rotating between those two options repeatedly in both neutral and offense, and running around.
But unfortunately for him he's in a kusoge game which has B tiers who can loop unblockables so he's C tier.
Jojo has a lot of interesting characters that would be cool to cover in a video. I think Dio is really interesting since he's universally agreed to be high tier but has some of the worst moves in the entire game and "no mix."
CT Tager, the grappler with no oki in a game where Dhalsim confirms 40% from half screen normals and has a DP.
People who think Black in FighterZ is some bottom tier unusable piece of garbage have never tried playing Ganondorf in any Smash game after Melee. I sincerely wish Ganondorf was even remotely as good as Black in FighterZ. Dude can't even breach D TIER after THREE GAMES. My man is literally G tier in 4 and Brawl. *G Tier.* At least Goku Black has an actual neutral game and doesn't get obliterated off of one hit. FighterZ is such an amazingly balanced game and so many people who's first or only FG is FighterZ don't even know it.
Its always weird how the grapplers in anime fighters have the strangest balancing lol, like potemkin went from being worse than xrd tier in #reload, to top 5 in base AC, all the way back down to bottom 1 again in Xrd, and now he's like top 5 again in strive lol. Its so weird
Was hoping you’d show off Neco Arc lol
It's like the daughter of Millia and Ky that was trained by Venom Vs Just another Zepp soldier
Ah yes. Calamity Trigger. It was a mess but REALLY fun to play
As a CT Tager main, I knew exactly what blazblue you were gonna go for here. Tager vs. Nu or Arakune is 0-10 free.
Dude do you remember a Tager player who went by Authoritaay back on PS3 CT? Super funny dude with a shit connection lol?
His Tager drove me up the wall mentally and literally.
I find it funny that BBCT is mentioned for the version of Tager being bad (which I agree) and yet with a local tourney one of my friends went to he made it to semis with him, knocking out a lot of the competition (even Nu-13 somehow).
Just saying, I never knew what a good character was until I played SFIIT Vega. I don’t even complain about top tiers in games really because I think of all the Gief’s I’ve high-low crushed.
I didn't understand now my eyes are opened
Jesus h Christ, bringing up that Dustloop vs GameFaqs tournament was a long ass time ago. I was one of the Tager players in that nonsense and that bracket was stacked in favor of gamefaqs no joke. I had the misfortune of going up against Arcadefire in that mess of a tournament and he was a Nu-13 player. Wasn't fun.
But yea, anyone that mained Tager in the CT days and was even half serious about it knows what a bad character actually looks like.
To be fair, Broly had tones of Super Armor and his own Projectiles enabled him to be a Zoner himself. Nu - 13 in CT was difficult in the Casual and Middle game but once you got to Top play, her advantages became less advantageous.
"No mix" Ty for the buffs ArcSys
This is a problem the fgc created. People are so black and white about everything and always divides things into good or bad, players characters games doesn’t matter. So when you hear this character is on the weaker end of the roster you’re conditioned to think “oh so they’re bad” instead of actually learning the character or game.
I agree. Some characters simply have worse, absent or bad tools, and that's fine.
Fortunately I play strictly casually, so all characters are viable on my level.