What if the Jacobites Never Left Scotland?
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- Опубликовано: 14 июн 2024
- Should the Jacobites have remained in Scotland? Scottish history tour guide, Bruce Fummey meets up with historians Murray Pittock and Chris Whatley to dig into the question What if the Jacobites never Crossed the Border?
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Murray Pittock
Culloden global.oup.com/ukhe/product/c...
Scotland: A Global History yalebooks.yale.edu/book/97803...
Myth of the Jacobite Clans edinburghuniversitypress.com/...
Chris Whatley
Scottish Society 1707-1830 manchesteruniversitypress.co....
Industrial Revolution in Scotland www.cambridge.org/core/books/...
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Scotland History Tours is here for people who want to learn about Scottish history and get ideas for Scottish history tours. I try to make videos which tell you tales from Scotland's past and give you information about key dates in Scottish history and historical places to visit in Scotland. Not all videos are tales from Scotland's history, some of them are about men from Scotland's past or women from Scotland's past. Basically the people who made Scotland. From April 2020 onward I've tried to give ideas for historic days out in Scotland. Essentially these are days out in Scotland for adults who are interested in historical places to visit in Scotland.
As a Scottish history tour guide people ask: Help me plan a Scottish holiday, or help me plan a Scottish vacation if your from the US. So I've tried to give a bit of history, but some places of interest in Scotland as well.
Upcoming Live shows www.brucefummey.co.uk/shows.aspx
A video about another What if...? ruclips.net/video/X45io37c3fc/видео.html
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Did i see that you had a show in Grangemouth coming up? or did i miss it? I am history graduate and really like your videos. I have questions though..................so many questions!
@@paulmcdermott4336 Aye Grangemouth was last weekend
Damn it! Id have definitely been there if I'd have known earlier@@ScotlandHistoryTours
If the ambition of Charles Edward Stuart was to retake the throne of Great Britain then they he had no choice but to go south to take the throne from the Hanoverians (who claimed the throne through the Scottish line of succession). Whilst there was support for the Jacobites throughout the British Isles there was also strong support for the Whig’s from the 1660’s onwards - and had revolted against the Stuart monarchy in 1685 during the Monmouth Revolt. In ‘45? There was support for the Jacobites - on both sides of the border. It wasn’t just a Scottish attempt at regime change.
That's right. Both sides had Irish and Welsh fighting too, from what I can remember.
I hope your history's mair accurate than your apostrophes.
Yup, Bonnie Prince Charlie was a unionist, albeit Popish
So, we're not going to ask why they were called Jacobites and why the royals were surnamed Black? Ie 1:41 Stuart. sources available 😢 1:34
@@davidbenyahuda5190I believe the surname Black is due to their black hair, which was somewhat unusual, and Jacobite comes from the Latin version of James (jacobus).
Keep up the good work. Love your content! The knowledge you guys have is brilliant 🏴💙
thanks for teaching man, not many keeping history as cool as you.
One does one's best 😎
Three passionate historians discussing what ifs with friendly banter. What’s not to enjoy 🌞
Absolutely, though I was a student at the feet of the masters
I love this format, having scholars with differing opinions discuss various events. I hope that the sound quality can be improved for future videos.
Thanks kindly Bruce! Again, really a great lesson for us in the US to see face to face, opposite opinions, debated with enthusiams and respect❤❤❤ these folks come with the knowledge... prerequisite for Bruce's debates. Excellent!!
Glad you enjoyed it
@@ScotlandHistoryTours for sure!
Bruce has great charisma and is good at doing his research. Keep up the good work, Bruce
He's a man of two minds. He wants direct answers but he knows just as much there isnt always such easy answers. So he knows to play the balancing act. Say what you like about his own personal views, he has a real sense of giving both sides their day in court whatever the cost.
Thanks for another great collaborative video.
"Spin it out a bit." 😂😂😂
This is fantastic!!! Amazing historians having a pint. It's as if you're in the room enjoying a pint with them. The conversation gives us a whole new perspective on Jacobitism. PLEASE give us more like this...
The most popular place to eat and drink in Sydney Nova Scotia is called the Bonnie Prince . Where most of the population is of Jacobite ancestry .
Another great collaboration video Bruce, learning Scottish history through your channel is amazing 👍👍
Brilliant
Bruce, I can barely contain my excitement. My grandmother used to live opposite the North Inch, on Blackfriars Street, and as a young man I used to go the Salutation every Thursday. I appreciate this is of no interest to anyone other than me but can’t help myself. Great video by the way 😂
Brilliant
It was not much of a choice then and it's not much of a choice now. Viva the republic!
In the country I live in we say, if the sky falls down, we all have a bleu hat.
I always enjoy a good historic video of scotlands past. Glad to see one of my own kinsman from back home in Perth doing so well, keep up the good work Bruce
Thanks! Good One...I always wonder...if the union gad broken... would there have been an Empire? without the Highland regiments ? maybe not
Exactement. Big thanks
I agree with the point that the Jacobites were a large part of international history and ignored in current studies. I never heard of them (but I was educated in the US), other than here. For this video I first went back and watched one of your older videos to catch up.
They had no choice but to go south. Great video, as always, and a great gig last night in Stranraer. Me and my boy had a great time.
I thoroughly enjoyed it
@@ScotlandHistoryTours would be great if you would come back again
nothing better than seeing a few guys having a beer and talking intelligently and i will see you in fergus ontario when you come, oh btw my grandfather was a gordon highlander during ww1 got the mons star my dad served in the raf during ww2 shipped to prince edward island and the law was he had to becone rcaf then shipped back to britain where he again became raf then near the end of the war became an argyle and sutherland highlander in austria, i served in the rcaf and my son was an argyle and sutherland highlander of canada and served in 2007 in afghanistan my friend sandra bald jones taught champion highland dancers including my neice and my daughter she will be in fergus
Very interesting video again Bruce, often thought about this as well.
Also what would have happened if the French had sailed and landed on the South coast of England.
Could suggest the British army would have been tied up in the south, and the highland jacobites would have likely returned home (as many wanted having already been a way for a while) and sought better terms. May have saved the highlands from rampaging redcoats at least.
Fascinating subject though with far reaching implications for European and north American history.
This is the way to discuss history, nice and relaxed with a pint.
Edit: I often wonder how the American Revolution would have been effected by a Jacobite victory and a Stuart on the throne of England. 🤔
We cover that in a recording that will be released later
Another great episode Bruce.With a lively debate between the two historians.For sure,things changed in Scotland after 1846.
Brings to mind a quote by Frederick Douglass,an outspoken Black American Abolishinist.
"Find out just what any people will quietly submit to,and you have the exact measure of the injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them."
Aye we know aobut Fredrick Douglas ruclips.net/video/LQpUoJkRvDk/видео.html
Nicely put, sir...always great to see you out there...E...😊😊
Hi Bruce ya Bawbag 👀🤣 , just back from your gig in Grangemouth , I love everything minute of it , would love to have had the confidence to stayed behind with the group of people eager to meet you but I’m not a fan of social gatherings 😅 ( your gig is my first social event I’ve been to years , but totally worth it )enjoy the rest of your travels and hopefully next time I see you it will be in one of the amazing places you’ve taught me about 😁and I will be confident enough to meet and talk to you 😊you’ll spot me miles away I’m always in purple 🤣
Thanks so much for coming out
Thank you for taking the time to teach some history and fun facts about Scotland. I was stationed in the Navy in Dunoon Scotland for three years and absolutely love it there. My wife and I have been back several times since to visit and will be back again this July.
Coffee or a pint is on me if we see you …🎉😅
Check out my Clan Lamont video
Hold up!!!! You only served 3yrs, how did you manage to escape??? Dunoon had a way of grabbing hold of the Navy service men & women & they could never leave,..."Join us! Join us! You have always belonged here".
Oh wait I see your coming back next "GOOD GOOOD!!! FEEL THE POWER OF THE DAL RIADA SIDE FLOW THROUGH YOU!!!"(he typed in an Emperor Palpatine voice😂).
As a Dunoon boy I would say "welcome back" I'll say "welcome home" 👍
My Scottish emigrant ancestor, Alexander Kerr, was part of the Jacobite rebellion. He went to America in 1716 as a prisoner.
From 'Passenger and Immigration Lists Index' -- "List of Rebel Prisoners Imported by Capt. Edward Trafford in the Elizabeth and Anne from Liverpole [sic], 1716." He settled in Williamsburg, Virginia.
Amazing, what did he look like??? 👍🏽 there’s a massive elephant in the room when it comes to the jacobites so you don’t have to answer that if you don’t want to. I already know there’s a whole race worth of history deleted, I just like to look for evidence 🙌🏽
He will have also been forced to work for several years as part of this punishment. He would have been one of many people transported to the Americas. I was shocked when I found some of my relatives were sent there as a punishment and forced into indentured servitude. Australian transportation took place after it had been going on across the Atlantic for hundreds of years. People don't usually know about it. Barbados was a place where many were sent too.
Some escaped and their descendents are now Spanish.
Lot of kerr in Ayrshire still
@weejackrussell That had been happening for years already. After the Battle of Dunbar in 1650, around 5000 Scottish prisoners of war were marched down to England and stuck in a camp near Durham where a huge number of them died of starvation and disease. There are records of 500 of those who lived being sold into servitude and shipped out to Maryland where they were bought by sawmill and mine owners, or other wealthy colonists. This was not like transportation for criminal offenses, but pure war profiteering. How long the prisoners had to work to buy their freedom, I don't know.
As a direct descendent of Robert II, I stand in line for the crown!
The crown has never belonged to the Stewards of Dol.
This was a fun interview. Very jolly bunch. We’ll see you in Toronto canada next month!
I can't wait
Your videos get better and better. Thank you.
Ah thanks
Very interesting. Only downer: couldn't always hear everything that Murray and Christopher were saying.
Agree, although this was an amazing topic and Bruces "lead-up" was good I couldn't hear or understand what was being said most of the time during the actual discussion. Otherwise I love your history Tours. 👍
I understood them both fine, but they did have radically different Scottish accents so I could see why it’d cause a problem. I’d love for this channel’s videos to have proper, professional subtitles for everybody whatever the reason they need them.
@@kaitlyn__L It wasn't their accents. I'm a Scot myself and could understand them perfectly well. It was mostly that the sound was not balanced properly, so Bruce's voice (and laughter) was very much louder than the voices of the other two, which resulted in them being "drowned out" every now and again.
@@kaitlyn__L It wasn't the accents, it was the differential volume. I'd turn it up to hear them, still not have it high enough and Brue's raucous laughter would have me reaching to turn it down. Pity, because from Bruce's side (like listening to one side of a telephone conversation and maybe catching wee bits over the phone when they spoke up a bit louder) it seemed fascinating, if too short.
@@moragmckay3779 maybe my TV has a subtle compressor built in, I didn’t notice the laughter being louder than the speech. I did have to turn up the interview section to hear them.
I'll check the books out! Thanks!
Fantastic. Thank you so much, my friend. 🙏
I love how yer man went to great pains to phrase the Tom Jones treatment as politely as possible. A true gentleman!
😂
Bonnie Prince Charlie, should have secured Scotland, and considered the views of the Clans attitude, he lost a lot of his army before Culloden as some wanted to stay in Scotland and didn't want to fight in England
Great video subject. Wish it could have been for longer. It was fantastic to allow them them to each present their perspective.
Only suggestion I have is to do another interview with them, again. Let them each answer a question completely before asking the other one to chime in.
It was a little hard to clearly hear their individual responses because of all the cross talk between them.
😂😂If you knew what was involved in settign these up I don't think you would have made that suggestion
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Oh, my !!
Yes, I would imagine their time schedule is tight. I only meant I wanted to be able to better hear what they said for the sake of understanding their individual perspectives.
Other than that I definitely liked their banter.
Love it information
Great Great job.
Bottom of the night to ya brother man from here in Tennessee.. God Bless
*sigh*
Okay, Bruce. This has to be said.
Fascinating conversation. Well done, you, for putting it together.
BUT: I sure could have absorbed a lot more if I hadn't been distracted riding my volume level through all 13 minutes of playback.
That's right. I have tech feedback, and it's not going to be bouquets and butties.
Now, this is the thing. Matt Ward's videography is ALWAYS spot on. But the audio track is sadly neglected. And this is chronic.
When you're doing a solo presentation, the jumps and drops in gain are perhaps annoying,but can be listened past, even when you cut from take to take and/or roll in audio v.o. recorded in studio rather than live. More attention to making those cuts less jarring, but I will grant you there are a LOT of RUclips videos out there (even from content creators with a hell of a large subscriber base) that are much rougher, but that's really no excuse for material of your caliber.
And on the occasions like this, when you're in conversation with two or more interview subjects, it is essential not to neglect this.
It's great all three of you are individually mic'ed (and frankly, I wasn't sure that was the case for the first three or four minutes of the interview/debate) but if each of you isn't being recorded to a separate track (with a commitment to massage and remix the audio in post) there really needs to be an experienced live remote sound guy along with the rest of the crew on the shoot.
The mean levels for the three of you are wildly mismatched-sounds like it might be as much as 20dB.
And when the three of you are having a laugh (which seems to happen at least a half dozen times and is truly a delight) the levels had to be pinning any and every active VU meter in the room.
We're not talking rocket surgery here, Bruce. These are issues any competent audio engineer working for scale could easily control. And not addressing it really does a disservice to your content, and the hard work you invest in putting it together.
I hope this didn't read as "too harsh." It's meant to be supportive, constructive criticism. If it doesn't land that way, I apologize for my clumsy expression.
Just to be fair to Matt Ward I had to do the filming without him in order to fit in with the availability of the guests on this video, so everything in recording audio or visual is my fault. In fact if Matt managed to cover up all the other cock ups I made in his editing then he deserves a medal. However I'm happy to take on board and implement all you say, although to be honest I didn't understand a lot of it. Just send the cash and I'll be delighted to employ an audio technician for every shoot. 😎👌
"I'm not making a case"...proceeds to make a case. Great discussion. I'll be visiting Scotland for the first time in my life. I live in California. Going this September so I'm brushing up on my Scottish history
Brilliant
Long time ago I came across the suggestion that pragmatism would have seen a negotiated settlement essentially dissolving the union, but saving many of the mutual advantages that the union offered.
The alternative would have been for the Redcoats to take the war into Scotland, where the Jacobites had home ground advantage and every reason to defend their prince. Even if Hanover won, it could well have been a Pyrrhic victory.
Invading England deprived the Jacobites of their advantages and had little, if any, purpose for the clansmen. They got what they were fighting for when the Young Pretender succeeded in Scotland.
Had the union dissolved, would the Scottish renaissance have been as impactful on the world?
Ya Already Know Where The GOOD OLD BOYS ARE...........
AMERICA ❤
When charlie marched into England, the Hanoverians had their hands full on the continent. So to stay ,would've just given them more time to bring Troops in from Continent! Remember a double agent stymed Stuarts, false report of troops, when Charles could've just marched in! Another if of History!🤔
Thank you.
You're welcome!
Should be taught in schools this more interesting and brilliant watch
I’m a Falkirk lad. Looks like a just missed you in gmouth
What a belting night that was
Sometimes I can't hear what's being said for all the laughter.
Was Biggar once called Begger? I would love to know! 😀
I’m very familiar with 1745 & Jacobites! It’s the reason my 8th great grandfather was put to death and how his daughter ended up in America. I say they did what was necessary and I probably wouldn’t have changed it had I been there.
Not another American with famous ancestor why aren't they related tae wee jock the shepherd who got chucked out for rustling
@@alanpatterson8207 Jealous much? I prefer living in a country that actually appreciates our contributions and doesn't pass Disarming Acts.
@@theGhostofRoberttheBruce why do you Americans (if that is what you are) always, always decide that they are related to some well known Scot instead of being content to be an ancestor of wee jock the shepherd but no, you lot are like that infamous yank Trump who in his narc mind is "king of the world" and THAT is why the native Scots detest,hate and abhor the "toom tabards" that waltz across here for a 2 week vacation and pontificate about how hard your ancestors life was when you don't know a thing about living in Scotland today apart from what you see on the TV or read in the MSM and regarding the "acts" you are waffling about,please name them so we can have a chat or are you too cowardly to do that.
Read up on the acts and rules of Charles 1 and 2 and James 2 of Great Britain and how it affected ordinary people before spouting crap about The Roman Catholic church
Went to see his stand up show in helenburgh last night .history comedy brilliant must see 😂
Thanks John❤
Another great video Bruce .. But from what I have read and heard, they might have pushed it a bit too far and really thinned out their army a little too much. The British were well trained and organized.
They were all British; it was a civil war for the British crown. As ever, no thought was given as to the interests of the ordinary citizens.
Wee Charlie was only interested in the British crown. Scotland & the Jacobites were just a resource for him to realise his ambitions. He eventually lived out his life while the Highlanders paid the price. By the way there is a very nice pub in Stirling called the Settle Inn, just near the castle where I play regularly and that was a meeting place for Jacobites.
the highlanders etc knew exactly what they were getting into ? you talk like Charlie hoodwinked them into it . He probably wasn't able to deliver on a few of his promises though , like french troops etc.... Also he was pretty big in stature so I don't know why your calling him 'wee' Charlie .
There is where the 'feudal system' comes in. Which was still in great effect in the Highlands. Many of the Highlanders wanted nothing to do with fighting in a rebellion. If however they were living on the land of a Highland chief who had agreed to raise his troops for the rebellion....then they had to go....or they would be evicted. Bad landlords didnt just start during the Highland Clearances ye know. If the chief said you were going then you were going whether you liked it or not @@bigboaby555
Question. Is Calhoun a newer or related to a name of a Scottish clan?
ruclips.net/video/gQQyqJAVeHo/видео.html
Some of my ancestors who died for the South in the American Civil War, were the likely of some extended relation to some of the men who fought at Culloden. The parallel between the charge at Culloden and the charge that my ancestor died in at Franklin is somewhat astounding. 120 years later and the basic premise of the attack was still the same and so was the result. It must have been horrific to be a part of
Aye war's a terrible thing. I'd guess there were descendents of Culloden on both sides during the American Civil War
@@ScotlandHistoryTours For Certain
" ...Why are you pointing at me!" 😂😂😂
Aye😜
As Charles Edward Stuart and the Jacobites objective was to take the British Throne from the Hanoverians there is no point in putting such a scenario. Charlie had no intention of settling for Scotland.
Yer awesome me n ma partner canny wait tae see ye next week at Helensburgh 😊
Brilliant
Well my dog needed the vet today so we are sadly missing ye now hopefully catch the next nearby show 🫠
I wish with all my heart that I could afford to contribute to your channel. It is amazing I love absolutely fantastic. I have recommended it to so many of my family and though I cannot provide financial support I’m here in spirit.
Guid lass. You are providing support
we havent all left brucey boy
😜
Charlie was seeking to recover the family right to the Throne of England for his father. The Scot supporters were a means to that end.
The throne of Britain. But it should never have been one throne in the first place. James sold Scotland doon the watter.
I was told this is why our lands were taken away. Clan Kieth.
Would you tell a story about clan Pentland? Loads of questions
I'd have to learn something about them first
As I said in your Falkirk video, coulda, woulda, shoulda might be good for talking about over a pint, but the actuality is what we have to live with.
We were talking over a pint
Thanks for an interesting discussion. Would be also (slightly less) interesting to ask what would happen of the Jacobites hadn't stopped in Derby...? 🤔
You don't think we only filmed one video do you?😜
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Lol - don't forget to visit the Pennines 😉
Yes they should
Have you ever read Charlie Stross's Merchant Princes novels? In one of his alternate worlds, the Jacobites refrain from invading England. A couple of other major divergences happen, and you end up with a New British Empire based in North America and a French occupation of the British Isles. Likely? Who knows. But it's a fascinating what-if.
Well Bruce if William Bell didn't get in trouble and get shipped out of Liverpool I might be a British Chap right about now. It was time for the American experiment. Many of my cousins and grandparents made it out alive. Grandpa McCoy, Bell, Lewis and Walker. You guys got it ok so far so good.
Aye, sorry you had to downgrade. Never mind we are what we are😜
I recently retired and finally moved back home. I'll be back soon..
I've never been a fan of counter-factual history, but that was still an interesting discussion.
It's a route to delving into the real thing
They both make pretty solid points. Had the Jacobites stayed put, they'd have solidified their base in Scotland a lot more, but ultimately would have suffered financially against the Hannovarian English regime. Its also not incorrect to say coming south was a risky move that fell on its arse hard and fast. What would have come about if they had succeeded and drove further south into England? Well thats a question only one man could answer: the Duke of Cumberland. Could he have had a larger army waiting when Bonnie Prince Charlie finally came further south or would he have a smaller one reduced thanks to seeing off the earlier Jacobite incursions? Regardless, there would still have been retaliation from it. The only way that would have stopped would have been Charles winning back the throne
Hi Bruce. It's interesting to think about what if, but remember that we would probably not be here if it was the case. Having said that, what if the Scots hadn't turned back at Derby and went on to take London? Perhaps my dad would have stayed in Inverness, and I'd have been born north of the border (if there was a border).
We also filmed a video asking What if the Jacobites didn't turn back at Derby. One of the things that's been really frustrating about this video though is the extent to which folk have confused Jacobitism and Scottishness
@ScotlandHistoryTours Yes I think I did watch it.
The line is clouded by our romantic visions of the past.
I’d like to think they could’ve made a decent stand, since other countries with less money and manpower pushed-off the British Empire later on. But I must admit in the context of the 1700s it would’ve probably been pretty decisive…
There's a whole lot of what ifs that follow on.
The War of Austrian Succession involving France and Britain on opposing sides didn't finish until 1748. Would France have aided a Jacobite Scotland to keep English armies in Britain?
Then The Seven Years War a few years later 1756 to 1763 also Britain and France on opposite sides. But as a result France ceded a lot of territory in North America to Britain and Spain. Scottish regiments fought for Britain eg 42nd Highland Division.
Jacobite Scotland would have been very problematic for England in 18th and 19th century wars. 1776 - 1783 could have been really interesting.
I noticed the mantel had the date 1699. Check out Guinness W.R oldest pirate 1699 William Kidd born in Dundee. Could be a good story?. My Goodness My Guinness.!
Some of these Jacobites may have stayed deserted and stayed in England. Who knows?
Lets play a game! It's called "Guess what century my Scottish clans roster started!" Something tells me most of you can guess.
Had they stayed in Scotland, there would be a much larger population in the highlands and a much smaller number of Scots in America.
If they had stayed it would have changed the course of history. We might never have had the Bay City Rollers and Sheena Easton. But I do own Murray’s book on Culloden
Single events - what ifs - never change the course of history in the long term. Sure, some things would be different in the short term, but then the second order consequentials set in. Just as the Beatles put in an appearance in Robert Harris' Fatherland (where the Nazis won the War), we would still end up with the Bay City Rollers and Sheena Easton just the same. By the way, I have Murray's book on Culloden as well.
@@user-vj7el2wg9bI’m just kidding around. But if it wasn’t for Sheena Easton I never would have been glad to be Scottish
@@tomtaylor6163 The Bay City Rollers had the opposite effect on me!
The right outcome was achieved, although at tragic cost at Culloden. ( I smile when redcoats are referred to as English, there were more Scots fighting for George than Charles).The pretenders were catholic, this was never going to be accepted by most people either side of the border and as history showed whether Charles I or later Stuarts, caused much controversy and caused more opposition. Stuarts never had a good relationship with parliament or Kirk either, so maybe a Stuart reign would not last long.
did the Jacko's wear socks and who darned them, did they have repair kits to mend holes, and did they wear brown Swade shoes.
Chriatopher Watley looks like a cross between the Scottish theologian Sinclair Ferguson, and the Engliah actor Ian McKellen.
This kind of thing just makes me all the more determined to see an independent Scotland as a republic. Dabbling in monarchy has been nothing but a waste of time for Scotland. When James Stuart buggered off down to England in 1603 we should have shut the doors on him and his heirs, be they Stuart/Savoy/Este/Wittelsbach or Hanover/Saxe-Coburg-Gotha/Windsor.
No they didn't go away, just leave or completely wipped out of existence, nor were the picts.
The rebels who fought ,against the redcoats were rounded up enslaved, imprisoned sold and forced into the city's
slums,workhouses and service others were exiled from Scotland to the new world to work on plantations after the clearances.
The ancestors off these people are still alive in Scotland today, still feeling the effects of the suffering held by our ancestors still being discriminated against on the daily🎉
👍😀👍
First thing King Francis should do is abolish excise duty on beer.
The question for me is what would have happened to the Covenanters if the Jacobites had been able to consolidate their power in Scotland? My late wife's ancestor was murdered in front of his wife and children by not-so-bonny Dundee for the crime of preaching his religion. Given the appalling treatment of the Covenanters by the Jacobites including the killing of thousands what would the Jacobites have done in a Scotland without restraint?
This channel has sought to cover the atrocities on both side of this divide
During the great debate over Union or no Union prior to the Act being passed in 1707 there were considerable collaboration between Covenanters and Jacobites both being opposed to this Union.
Although Covenanters did see Jacobites as 'papists and backsliders'....they were more afraid of being ruled by the Church of England and still held bitter feelings about this since the time of the Bishops Wars and the Wars of the Confederacy in the 1600s
wasn't there like 6-7000 irish wild geese from France not meant to go over? but couldn't because of the navy? theres always what ifs in history
That'll be covered in another video
Algo b-b-b-boost!
Thanks for that
Thought Bruce was going to have to adjudicate over an arm wrestle then, lol 😅
🤠💜
Is Bruce Inglis a common name in Scotland ?
The Jacobites moved to America....just look at our Constitution 🙂.
The US Declaration of Independence ows a debt to the Scottish Declaration of Arbroath, as well.
I know some of the Jacobites moved to Eastern PA . I was at a historical site, and they were explaining who was in the area at this time. It was very interesting.
@@samsmith6594 Correct.
If the Jacobites hadn't gone south, the Hannoverians would have come north, probably well before they had subdued resistance in Scotland itself. There is even less chance of the Hannoverian government tolerating a rival, Catholic claimant getting secure on the British mainland than of James (or many of the non-Scots that followed him) being satisfied with only one of the three Kingdoms of 'his birthright'.
It has to be all or nothing for both sides.
I often think that the only real chances were 1689 and 1715, with 1715 been a real chance squandered by appalling leadership.
Definately should have stayed in Scotland but, the prince would have had his work cut out controlling the feuding Clans...
The commentary was a bit muddled with not a lot of detail.
Well I'm from fraser decent. So Im indifferent just like my forefathers cos they were neither here nor there also
Sounds like the American rebels story. Except there was an ocean in between instead of an open border.
🤔
They should have been satisfied with getting Scotland out of the hands of England!
Where are my Drummond and Macgregor kin? Shout out! Slàinte mhath ❤🇺🇸🏴
We were/are a sept of Drummond of Perth.
My husband family left scotland for fear of being killed. They were jacobites. They settled in georgia. They were a large clan.
Aye changed days eh? Nowadays I'm wary of goign to America for fear of being killed
@@ScotlandHistoryTours Yeahhh cause it's so terrible here...I wouldn't leave SC and the liberty we have here for the Stone of Scone and the keys to the kingdom.
Want me to list all my ancestors that died for that godforsaken island full of ignorant and ungrateful fools?
I think we all feel safer for you being there😜