Sled Keep Fouling Spark Plugs? Maybe this is Why. (First Ride of 2020)
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- Spark plug fouling on a snowmobile. Eventually, fouled spark plugs are a problem that plagues anyone who rides an old sled. In this video I'll talk about something you may be doing to make the problem worse. (Always follow the procedures in the operators manual for your sled. This video is for entertainment purposes only)
I also got the sled out for a bit of ditch banging.
Please share: • Sled Keep Fouling Spar...
Outtakes at end of video.
This video is intended as entertainment, always check with a qualified technician or your dealer before attempting any of the procedures depicted on this channel.
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I resolved one issue, using the wrong spark plug. I reminded myself of another reason for spark plug fouling by making a rookie mistake recently.
My Old Sled do you have studs in your track if not install them you won’t be disappointed
I Torch my Sparkplugs right at the butt end till they're red hot, it's a temporary fix bit it'll get you where you need to go.
I have been Ski-Doo mechanic and Dealer since the sixties and before the oil injection system the oil mixture at idle was 50 to 1 so plug fouling was bad idling and at slow speeds and back then customers would come to me and tell me they solved the problem by using jobber oil. I explained to them that the reason was that the genuine Ski-Doos oil was made to not burn up in the high heat of the engine thus causing the plugs to foul at low RPM and the jobber oil burnt up from the heat and therefore not lubricating the engine properly and no oil left to foul the plugs. Now with oil injection it mixes the oil to gas at 80 to 1at idle improving the plug fouling but what I seen you do in your video was one thing which seemed to kill NGK plugs. I learned that if you installed new NGK plugs and started your engine and just let a idle for a little bit and then shut it off without taking it for a ride that in the majority of the cases that would kill the plug. So when you install new NGK plugs start it up and ride it for a while.
Back in the 60s, the ratio was typically 20/1 or one quart of oil to five gallons of gas.
l remember Blizzard Concentrate which came out around 1972 which started at 40/1.
Hi Jeffrey..(or Jeff?) Yep that's correct. My 60's manuals say 20:1, Skidoo Oil and regular gas not less that 75 octane. Do you still run old sleds? Vintage? Classic?
If you just clean your spark plugs really good with a rag, and then with someone holding down the throttle , pull it over 20x and put your plugs back in, it will start. Happens all the time with my 1993 MXZ. I am 8 years old, my name is Benny and I live in Hudson Bay Saskatchewan. I watch your channel a lot and it has helped me get my old sled going!
Hi Benny. Great tips. I did a video a looonnnggg time ago about that. Thanks for watching. Thats a nice sled! Hope you have lots of snow.
I picked up a 99 MXZ 600 and your videos have helped me get it all fixed up. Thank you!!
Nice. Congrats. Hope you get more snow than i have. Glad You enjoy the channel.
Ahhhh I love the smell of 2 Stroke in the morning!
Who doesn't
Sometimes using a torch on a wet fouled plug will allow it new life. But as you said they are relatively inexpensive and just replacing is always better.
Hi Jimmy. Most of the methods to clean a fouled plug, can changed the metal in the electrode (torch) or cause pitting in the ceramic (brush or sandblasting) ... all of this will result in a plug that won't function as well and is more likely to foul. All in all, I'd replace them. Thanks for watching and commenting,
The other day, our old sled - a '94 Yamaha VK 540 - all of a sudden wouldn't start. It would sputter for a second, and then die. I never suspected the plugs, since it went from OK to not OK in just one day. But after seeing this video, I realized that all season, my son has just been doing laps around the house, going about walking speed, interspersed with sitting and idling while checking his phone. It never occurred to me that would foul the plugs, but $7 later, it's running just like it used to! Thanks!!
Common :) thanks for watching.
Cool, thanks for letting me know Dave! I was always kinda nervous about the idle process before riding.. good to know.
You should, if you don't have it, track down your manual. My manual says 2-3 min, so I would assume similar for most 2 stroked. You need a bit of time for parts to warm up and oil to circulate, but not an excessive time running at low rpm. Thanks for watching.
Looks like you ride a mach 1 triple. Use premium gas like SHELL GOLD. and ONLY skidoo rotax oil. And cleaning the rave valves makes a lot of difference, they often seize up from shitty oil or riding slow in warm weather. I've had to use a tiny chisel and small hammer to knock away carbon just to get the power valves to move on a sled a buddy bought used off a old guy. Mint sled but rode to slowly. YAMAHA combustion chamber cleaner, ice cream pale and a brass wire brush and elbow grease to clean powervalves. Be sure to clean the engine part of the powervalve chamber too so it moves freely.
Hi Dave, I have a device that an old Scorpion dealer used back in the day to unfoul plugs, it is a fuel oil furnace ignitor. You put a couple of extensions on the ignitor terminals and set your plug between them and it shoots a tremendous amount of voltage through the plug. You have to be very careful and not touch anything while it's working though. You run it for about a minute and it will usually clean a plug right up. Another trick is to use starting fluid, just spray the end of the plug, then blow it out and it cleans all the oil out, works in a pinch. Best way is replace the plug.
Hey David, good to see you making videos
Hey John. Thanks for watching.
So envious... Even though you have marginal snow, down here in Ohio, I've had 1 snowfall, which was mush.
Keep the videos coming David..
Hey Mark! Sorry to hear that. Lets hope feb picks up.
I knew it! Always tell my friends not to idle more than several moments. I’m forwarding this vid to them. Great sled.
hehe. Make sure you do warm it up a little. If you have a stand its a good idea to engage the belts for a moment. You should always follow the instructions the sled came with originally. Thanks for watching!
Newer machines will tell you when your sled is warmed up. My RMK 800 has the digital display with the temp. I always let it warm up to a min of 90F
@@dougmpage exact same thing with my RMK
Good video! See so many that don't probably warm up a sled. Thankfully my new one won't move forward until out of warm up mode. Couple suggestions though. You can also run 1 heat range hotter (lower number) that will help avoid fouling. My 04 Rev 800, ran NGK 8-IX instead of the 9ECS plugs and never had issues. Almost 10k on it when I sold it. Also make sure you run a good oil and clean the carbs every fall as well... makes all the difference. Again... Great video.
Thanks Drew. Glad you enjoyed it !
I'm a newbie so a great tip.ive watched all videos ..I was letting my sled sit 20 mins warm up thinking helping 2 stroke engine. anyway thanks great videos hope in Feb Ontario is good snowmobiling for you.
Probably too much. Follow manual.
First snowmobile ever. Finally got to get my 07 venture 500 on the lake. I have been fouling plugs probably due to long warm ups and slow riding lol. Apparently you can clean up spark plugs with high heat . Get a propane torch and heat the electrode. I used a air blower to get any left over carbons off and they worked 🤣👍. I immediately switched to new ones lol . It's just good to know incase your out of plugs for some reason. Don't throw them away
Congrats on the new sled.
Hey Dave, You can clean a fouled plug by sand blasting them. They make spark plug cleaners they use compressed air and light blasting sand. Common tool used back in the day in the automotive world. Much easier to just replace tho in my opinion!
Be interesting to see if it would work. Although I think for the price of plugs I would just put brand new ones in.
Good morning David! Good helpful topic and episode. Enjoyed the ride too. Noticed the stickers too, so was happy you mentioned it. LOL. Otherwise, the video might have had an alternate ending - you pulled over by the OPP. :)) LOL. Cheers and safe riding!
Thanks G
Thanks for the vid. I like the replacement advice. Makes sense with it being a relatively cheap fix. I think it makes sense to "clean" them if you're in a pinch.
Thanks David I just bought 1994 phaser 2 …. I’m like you start it everyday an run it turn it off…. Now I fouled the plugs too !!!! Darn thanks for the tip.
Lots of reasons for fouling, but thats an easy mistake to make, let me know if that turns out to be the problem.
I have the same sled and the same problems. Iridium plugs and seafoam fixed me right up. Awesome Vids!
Thanks Trent. I’ll give em a try. I didnt find any improvement with irridium in the 670.
Here to figure out why my High Performance Scooter(Go-Ped Trail Ripper) is fouling.
I'm curious if just "cruising" has been causing this for me, rather than blasting Wide Open Throttle all over town.
When I first bought it(Used) I ran Wide Open for most of my rides and didn't have issues.
However, Recently I've been cruising in a group of motorcycles and we go much slower that Wide Open. So far, Each ride I have fouled a spark plug; One Walk of Shame(no tools) One missed group ride(didnt leave the parking lot) And last night, 60 second spark plug swap but the group dissappeared on me.... All documented on my channel.
Thanks for the informative video; I've NEVER been on a snow mobile and still found your channel!
Maybe running too rich on those. What ratio are you running?
@@MyOldSled Stock GP460 calls for 25:1 Which i mix as precisely as I can.
After 21.3 Hours, I have now switched to 30:1 which I've only ran one tank like that.(My video posted today is that tank)
Thanks for replying!
Superclean does a good job on fouled plugs. I haven't experimented enough to say that it'll be as good as a new plug, but I know it gets them working again.
There are spark plug sandblasters that'll clean them completely. It's possible that the roughened surface of a blasted plug will promote faster fouling, but I haven't tested that. Before I had that I'd take my 2 stroke bike's plugs to school and clean them in our metal shop's sandblaster.
Spark plugs have a chromate film for corrosion resistance. This film is microns thick and is damaged with any abrasive method like wire brushes or sandblasting
@@MyOldSled With the spark plug blaster the blasting is aimed into the firing end, and not all plugs have it. If one is concerned about it they could tape off the threads, but from recollection it barely hits the ends of the threads.
I got to re-visit the Superclean method yesterday. The plugs in my Yamaha R5 had fouled from a lot of idle/no load running while testing stuff. After cleaning they looked like plugs from a 4 stroke, just light brown colored ceramic, the starting and running problems were gone.
In most, the threaded portion protrudes through and is exposed to the blasting media. The coating also affects the spark Plugs heat range. A plug that is wet with a bit of gas and oil while running can be cleaned and will fire again but the best move with a truly fouled plug is a fresh set.
I love your channel. One of the best in the internet. I am new to snowmobiles. I recently bought an old 2002 Polaris XC SP Edge 600. It has 2400 miles on it. I have flushed d the coolant, replaced the hifax, replaced some gaskets and O rings due to a coolant leak. I took all my idler wheel bearings apart, cleaned them and repacked with grease. The sled runs well so far. Anything else I should do to ensure reliability? I am a bit nervous about reliability due to its age.
Hey thanks. Sounds like you’ve got it…New plugs, check the idler wheels, chain case oil, grease suspension and steering, fresh gas..hope you get lots of snow…:)
@@MyOldSled Thanks!
Thank you again sir!! Live down in Ghent,NY still waiting on decent snow. Wish I could post a picture, I have quite the vintage sled collection.
Hi Dave. Visit me on facebook. Link in description.
With a two stroke only warm up idle for about 30-45seconds (not 2-3 mins) and then start riding (not flat out, but just ride) after a couple of mins ride as fast as you want.
Reccommendations given are from the manufacturer. Thanks for watching.
I found the best thing to do is let my coolant temperature reach 85F-30C before I touch the throttle. This advice is for COLD environments.
Good video. Every so often you gotta pin it wide open. With new sleds bad oxygen sensors foul plugs a lot.
Great video! Im in newmarket and ive only gotten out once this year at fenelon falls
Thanks man. Yeah lousy season all round. Hopefully feb is better.
Get different plugs works as well. I had this problem with my 94 Scandic and I switched to champion and have not looked back.
mycatumz same here changed to Champion RN2C from BR9ES and no more issues.
Thanks Clarence. Ill check them out,
@@clarencesweetapple9984 yup same here. went on a forum and that was suggested. NGK's are like a fuse and they tend to burn out.
NGK is so full of crap, spark plugs can absolutely be cleaned, PERIOD!. I own a 1970 Skidoo olympique 335cc that runs 20:1 OIL + GAS premix mix with a very fat high speed fuel settings. A yamaha bravo 250cc with ordinary factory jetting, but I run 100:1 premix on top of injection pump, I also have a Polaris Indy 500cc that is highly modified for racing and runs heavy injection cycles, for extra fuel and triple oil injection points, I also have a Yamaha Enduro motorcycle with a larger main and pilot jet, and an oil injection pump, that's turned up. All of my two stroke machines at some time or the other, will foul a plug, mostly at cold idle for too long, as you mentioned, but never during regular operation. You clean the excess carbon from the tip and porcelain of the plug gently with a brass wire brush, then return the plug to service, run the engine as normal, and if your engine is working properly, the combustion process at high speeds, running at a proper working temperature, will physically burn off any remaining soot or deposits, the same thing happens to the top of your piston.... My 20+ years of being a mechanic, and 30 years being around two strokes engines, says otherwise.
Hi Brent. Thanks for sharing your experience! I would expect NGK to indicate the plug should be replaced. I am certainly not a mechanic, and I do not have 20 years of experience, but I CAN say that I have tried cleaning the electrode and ceramic insulator of fouled plugs with a brass wire brush, and have been unable to start the machine after putting them back in. That's actually why I called them and asked the question. I am going to do a followup to this video and try some of the suggestions I've received. Thanks for watching and commenting.
...also, I've been given a lot of conflicting information on this topic from a lot of well-meaning people. Some say sandblast, other say NEVER sand blast. One mechanic advised using a propane torch, while that is absolutely a bad idea. My preference is to replace the plug, but of the cleaning methods I would try, the one you suggest is the one I would be most likely to try. Thanks again!
@@MyOldSled after you clean the spark plugs, pull the engine over a few times, to clear the dry sump of any stale fuel/oil, then introduce a blast of fresh fuel into the plug holes and right away reinstall the plugs and start the unit with the throttle 1/3 open and it will definitely fire up. The excess fuel in the sump evaporates rapidly leaving a film of oil which moves up to the piston top through the transfer ports re-contaminating the freshly cleaned plugs as the piston decends. Two stroke engines are weird, and finicky, they have to be understood in finite detail sometimes, to know what is happening at the time of failure. Little factors go a long way in hard starting issues, sometimes pouring extra gasoline on the top of a cylinder of a complely flooded two stroke engine, and pulling it rapidly at full throttle will get it going again, I've seen guys stare at me in disbelief when I got their machines to start this way, when everything else they tried failed....
A cleaned, de-carbonised spark plug will create a proper bright blue spark betwen the electrode and the tip, but is more prone to re-fouling the second time around, before it has a chance to heat purge of carbon deposits during the combustion process, hence why a brand new plug is more tolerant to starting a flooded engine.
@@MyOldSled A propane torch, used to dry out a plug should not be harmful, if it is done properly, the combustion chamber temps are extremely hot at full open throttle, when most two strokes are at their leanest hottest point, so it's not particularly a detrimental practice, but it's not as effective as physical carbon removal using the right steel brush, IMO
Yeah I always clean the cylinder out before reinstalling plugs. Totally appreciative of the feedback Brent, sincerely...all great info. Still, I got half way through this message before thinking.."Yeah, I'm just putting fresh plugs in" :) Honestly though, this is handy to know in a pinch.
I have a 96 formula 3 600 triple and these things are notoriously known to foul plugs and i used Br9es and I fouled plugs every trip but I switch to br9eya anti foul plugs and I go almost 400 km now without fouling a plug they cost like a 1$ more but saves you in the long run
I have a small sandblaster box one with the gloves inside and the nozzel. Iv cleaned the worst oldest plugs made them back to new never had an issue and has saved me hundreds of bux. Just have to make sure you blow all the grit out with high presure air..
I've always heated a fouled spark plug up with a propane torch, burning off the excess carbon with great success.
I believe you can hear a bit of a clunk when starting to move when your belts worn, or a squeal.
Yes, I believe so, as well as slower speeds at higher rpm.
Sounds like it.
Great video on a topic we can all relate too. I often operate my machine in -30c. I put a hair dryer under my hood for 30 minutes before I start the machine. NGK Iridium plugs help a lot too in COLD weather. I haven't tried it, but I would guess an ultra sonic cleaner might fix fouled plugs.
I know there are cleaners for spark plugs. Haven’t seen one for ages but nothing practical on the trail as far as I know.
Klotz Sparkplug spray cleaner....works great!
Hey Dave. Loving your videos. I just picked up my first snowmobile from a buddy and I’m having trouble finding parts. It’s an older 1995 ski-doo MXZ 583. What are some sites you use for your older sled?
Hi Paul, thanks for watching and messaging! Congrats on the new sled, I hope you get lots of snow! If your dealer can’t locate the part you’re after, places like Dennis Kirk, or Royal Distributing may have parts to maintain older machines. Ebay is a good source for parts as well, search for NOS, short for new old stock.
I used a propane torch and burned off the carbon on my ATV. Was way up north and didn't have access to a new plug. Took the plug out, heated it up cherry red, reset the gap, put it in, and the machine fired up straight away. I used this plug for the remainder of the week as we were 70 km into the bush on secondary logging roads.
That will get you going. I would only do it if I absolutely had to. I’m going to do a follow up shortly.
@@MyOldSled yes, this was a desperation move. New plug and spare at the first stop we made that had them. Great channel.
You may want to check your oil pump setting and i found that if you turn up the idle speed on an SDI ski Doo they foul less plugs
Hi J. Appreciate the suggestion, but it was just low speed running. Been riding with no issues for a few days. Good thoughts though.
I use a 1960 sparkplug sand blaster to clean my plugs it works very well unless the plug is a goo ball then the sand sticks and the plug truly is garbage. You also need to inspect the plug closely after cleaning that no sand is jammed into the plug as you don't want this in the engine. I usually can clean a given plug 4-5 times before I replace it. I operate at low speed pulling a heavy load hence the constant fouling
Hi Arno. I have one as well, though I don’t use it in my sled plugs. I’m going to do a follow up to this video. Thanks for watching!
I had no idea idling too long fouls sled plugs (2stroke). I change my plugs every new season even before I try to crank it over so Ive never experienced this.
I would also suggest using an in line spark plug tester to confirm spark. $10 on Amazon
Thx for the tip Dave
Hey TNM. Using an inline tester would still show a spark on a fouled plug I think, as the voltage is still there, the arc is just travelling down the ceramic insulator tip to ground.
My Old Sled yes you’re right. I wasn’t suggesting to use a spark tester for a fouled plug. I was just pointing out its another tool to diagnose issues related to your machine not starting.
I have been cleaning those plugs for years with a rag and sand paper it has worked every time
NGK plugs have a Trivalent Chromate coating, which is extremely thin, to aid in conductivity and corrosion resistance. Abrasive methods such as sandpaper or sand blasting damage or remove the coating. You will get them to fire, but they are not the same and are more prone to fouling than before. I have cleaned them, for example when I’m working on a sled, but I always replace them with fresh plugs.
@@MyOldSled you are right if I can I always replace them
I just wipe my plugs real good if they foul. Never replaced a fouled plug before, never had an issue after with one after wipedown.
Thanks for the info! I have the 2006 ski doo mxz 600 SDI and I keep getting fouled spark plugs. I use the br9ecs and I just got my sled running a few weeks ago out of a rebuild. I’m thinking it’s my boot, I could be wrong and it could be something else that’s letting my plugs go bad.
That plug is too cold for your sled. It should be BR8ECS. Skidoo changed that not long after that model came out.
Sitting here in Southern Ontario and hoping we ever get enough snow for a ride. Thx
I know. :( This has been a terrible season. So far the ground has stayed frozen, and I've been getting a little snow over the weekend. Fingers crossed. Where abouts are you?
My Old Sled 20 min south of London
Great video and info. Still learning.
Thank you! Glad you enjoyed it.
Just subbed your channel, I just purchased a 1994 Skidoo Formula STX. It has 5 000 miles on it and just had a top end overhaul (rings). Seems to have good compression when I pull it over. It's going to need some work but for $800.00?
Good video, I'm gonna keep on watching!👍
Congrats on the new sled. Hope you have a great winter.
Hey iam in Meaford these videos are great
Hi Drew. Thank you!
Keep up the awesome videos man
Hey thanks. Glad you're enjoying them! Another one on the way.
I learned something ! Great video !
thanks for the tips am going to do this on my sled its started during the summer with fresh plugs and i"ve ran it quite a bit and may have ideled it for 15 min so the plugs had carbon build up I tried cleaning them with sand paper and it didnt work ill have to get some new plugs thanks for the tip
Best way if you want to try is a brass wire brush, and air blast, but just as a stop gap. Then replace. Thanks for watching.
Hey Dave maybe a quick video on all the fake NGK plugs that are floating around amazon & eBay! It a big problem that’s getting out of hand.
Good idea doug.
Have you purchased fakes?
Just got into sledding, with the same sled '04 though, Having this issue, after 5 fouled plugs i stopped letting it idle for long and turn it off when i anticipate downtime while riding, had a good day today, went for my longest ride and had no issues for the first time since buying it, outside of possibly burning a lot of oil while riding, need to figure that out
The return spring / armature on the oil pump may be worn or sticking, running too much oil through. Not sure but these machines are a bit prone to that
If you have carbs, makes sure your air fuel screws are both even and at factory spec. And if it still fouls plugs try a hotter plug like a br8es instead of a br9es. Or try br9eya, they are anti fouling plugs
The Revs switched to BR8 from 9 early on, but you should run br8eCs...the ground electrode is different between es and ecs plugs. The ecs will transfer heat better. If you use br8s in a machine designed for br8ecs the ground electrode can fail, which can cause bigger problems.
@@MyOldSled my comment was directed more at older sleds. I don't really know a whole lot about these newer sleds
My thinking has always been that the engineer who designed the sled knows more than me about the type of spark plug to use. If the motor hasn't been modified, then I would always run the plug recommended by the manufacturer.
@@MyOldSled very true, but on a older sled it can sometimes be hard to get the carbs set perfectly so it doesn't run rich or lean, so getting a slightly hotter plug will help burn off a bit more oil and still run right
Hi, in your intro under the title "Safety tips" I have noticed how you pull your sled with tackle block, Could you please tell what episode was that? I cant find it in your playlist.
ruclips.net/video/YlUd3ewcMwo/видео.html
Amazing riding on your channel!
Lots of reasons for fouled plugs. Polaris riders,,, make sure your set to the right type of fuel, ETHANOL OR NON ETHANOL,
Dirty powervalves
Old gas
Crappy oil
Trying to move the sled too soon
WRONG JETTING
old dried out fuel lines sucking air.
Carbon build up from driving way to slow and never opening it up long enough to burn away the goop.
Too much choke
Not enough choke
Running the wrong plugs cuz these ones are cheaper...
Oil pump throttle cable jumps outta the cable adjuster n pulls too much throttle making things extra rich.
Letting your friends ride your stuff when they dont know nothing about nothing.
Bad crank seals
Regular gas instead of premium
Not using manufacturer's house brand oil.(yes that's a BIG ISSUE)
wrong guy tuning up your sled...
Hope these reasons help, 40 years of riding sleds, and fixing sleds, I've seen lots of dumb shit.
I was going to go that way, but it needed a 2 hour video so i just went with one common mistake. ;) thanks for watching and commenting!
3:26 do you not think NGK have just said that so you buy more plugs off them ?? just a thought to consider. If the spark plug is just went from oil fouling i cant imagine that that's the spark plug finished.
If its just wet, dry it off. If it’s truly fouled, virtually anything you do to clean it, abrasives, or heat will likely damage it. Throw em out, put fresh plugs in.
@@MyOldSled Noted ill buy more spark plugs for spares to be on the safe side. it made perfect sense what you said about warming up two strokes taught me something about 2 strokes i didnt know.
Sorry busy couple of days not much time to reply, if your read back through my replies you’ll see my rationale. Yes, plugs can be cleaned, and yes they can fire, but really, fresh plugs are the cheapest way to make a sled run better. Sandblasting, brass wire brushes all damage the anti corrosion coating, heat damages the resistor and changes the metal the electrode. I tested several and left them out and they rusted. But hey, I can’t blame anyone saving a buck.
Is it a good idea to check the new plug gap prior to install ?
Some plugs are pre-gapped and shouldn’t be adjusted but otherwise yes.
depends on the plug, for example my sled runs the BR9ECS and ngk says not to gap them because the ground electrode could break off in your engine after bending it. they come gapped in that case
Kendall Thurm - ALWAYS check the spark plug gap. If any adjustment need to take place ALWAYS use appropriate tool for the job.
Plugs as a general rule of thumb come pre gapped to a certain value that might be appropriate and recommended for your application... or not! The exact same plug might be fit for a multi cylinder water cooled 4 stroke sport engine or an air cooled single cylinder two stroke! They might run the same plug gap... or not.
So, the ridiculous theory of "don't check, don't touch" it's simply bad or lazy mechanical practice!
Let's not even mention the gap can also be changed/different from fabrication and/or transport and manipulation. So ALWAYS CHECK. ;-)
Hello. Try heating with a map gas propane torch use vise grips till cherry red .Then check gap after cooled. I think manufacturing co. Want people to buy new plugs .Can't blame them......
Hi Bee...Thats part of it, but any of the methods used for cleaning a truly fouled plug will alter the plug. Heating the soft nickel alloy to the temps of a torch change its structure, sandblasting and other wise abrading damage coatings...yes, you can get them to fire, but the best thing to do is replace them. Thanks for commenting.
I haven't changed a spark plug in years. Bought an 03 f7 in 2015. never changed them.
I envy you.
Hey Dave,
I have a 2003 Rev MXZ 600 HO carb. On a recent trip the sled was running great but we were riding some consistant low speed trails for a morning and then suddenly the sled was bogging at low rpm. Pin it over half throttle and it come back to life and rips like no issue. go to low rpm again and it bogs again...would fouled plugs do this? I also noticed after the ride that I now have to give it some gas on startup to keep it idling at start up...before it would start fine with just the choke and idling perfect. I'm hoping to look it over this weekend so would like your thoughts if you see this...thx. Love the videos.
Probably carbs need cleaning, idle jets probably dirty... but if you are running slower and in mild temps you can foul plugs...just pull them and have a look.
I have the EXACT same sled except it’s a 500 SS not the HO👌
So identical but different ;)
Heard torching them might work?
It does, they will fire but it also heated then far beyond what they are designed to work at. It can make them brittle and cause the anti corrosion coating to flake off
I think i fouled my sparkplugs in my 2022 tundra 600efi i used it to drive to work 10timed start up all together and i usually wait for temp gauge to reach half ways and its brand new skidoo 75kms
When you purchase new plugs to you need to adjust the gap or are the set at the factory?
Depends on the plug, but i would always check the gap against the manufacturers recommendation. Some plugs should not be gapped, like iridium, so check the packaging.
Found out if you have an sdi (I have an 05 600X HO SDI) if you keep fouling BR9ES spark plugs... you need to use BR8ECS or BR9ECS plugs.
Hi Kegan. I referenced this in an earlier video. The SDI shipped with BR9ECS. This was subsequently changed to BR8ECS in a service bulletin as its a slightly hotter plug. You wouldn’t run a BR9ES plug in an sdi.
@@MyOldSled I bought the sled second hand and I was told br9es only to see the label on the sled say 9ecs more research and people were saying 8ecs but I havent been able to find anything but the 9ecs around my local stores so I'll have to go online and purchase some and thankyou for the reply and verification!
Fouled plugs are often a sign of an improperly warmed up sled .
Hi Jeffrey. So many things cause an old 2 stroke to foul plugs, from carburetor issues, to low compression, blocked air filters, fuel quality..to ignition problems, almost anything that impacts the ignition of the charge in the cylinder....In terms of operator error, I think the two most common culprits are excessive idling, and low-speed driving over a long distances, particularly in warmer temps...both of which I did a lot back when I first started riding. These common new rider mistakes are exacerbated in a lot of older sleds because so many owners set the air screw incorrectly... as was the case with my 670 when I got it. When you are sitting letting a sled idle for long periods and the mixture is rich already...not too long before you end up with wet plugs. BUT, in terms of properly warming up a sled, to your point I've seen far more riders just jump on and go than properly allowing the sled to warm up. I try to always follow the warm up procedure in my manuals. Thanks for watching and for taking the time to comment.
I sometime get way by drying a fouled plug with the propane torch. They still need replacing after a while
Hi Rémi. Absolutely. I've heard a lot about this topic! You are correct, there are a number of ways to get fouled plugs to fire and heat is one. There are reasons I don't think it's the best solution, and my preference is always to replace a fouled plug. Planning a follow up soon. Thanks for watching!
great video dave,,i found these newer etecs however really dont foul plugs,,these $29 BRP EACH ! that plugs might have something to do with it too ! i know our other buddy Doobyboy said first hand ,, his iridium plugs make for easier starts..i agree i even ran them in my old cat 2002 ZR800,,you know they sell NGK v-grooved EYAs for the same price as BR8ECS OR 9S it the same price for those plugs
Hey Joe. Not posting anymore? Still riding your sleds?
you should come up to northbay Dave,,,my wife and i have a quest room ,yer more than welcome..pastiboy says he might is plan a trip up here ..lots of snow
Might be fun some time. We sure don’t have any here. Raining again.
Hey Dave, wondering if old gas will foul plugs. Just bought a 04 arctic cat from friends, was serviced, but forgot to tell me that had some old gas in the sled. Will that affect the plugs?
Hi Scott. Sure, I would think so. Anything that adversely affects combustion can result in buildup on plugs.
I sand blast fouled plugs. I use NGK.. #1 Blast all the way down into plug. #2 clean ALL sand out w/compressed air & brake clean
& ! Under seal washer & threads! (Back washer off w/ fingers). Get them very clean and free of all blast media. #3 check Gap.
I have had very good, long term results w/ above method.
This being said, I have old Carbureted sleds & I Very rarely foul a plug in the first place. Folks out there...Is your Oil fuel ratio right?
Have you done an oil pump consumption test? If Carb. Are your air fuel ratios right ...Truely?
AND follow Dave's advice on not idling too long, and do easy warm up run to let Cyl. Jugs & pistons expand together. (Air or Liquid cool)
OK..OK.. NGK Says no. but it works very well for me.
Hi Mitch, Spark plugs have a trivalent chromate coating on them less than .5 microns thick. This is easily damaged by sandblasting leaving a plug more prone to fouling and corrosion. I’ll clean them in a pinch to get the sled running, but I always replace fouled plugs. Thanks for watching.
Would bad plugs make a sled harder to pull start. Having issues with my dads 2011 summit has etec motor. Also and starting idling shutting it off without driving it cause fouling plugs my dad like to just start it in the trailer to show people and then shut it off
Yep. But lots of things can. Fresh plugs are a sled owners best friend, swap them and see how it starts
@@MyOldSled we will try plugs and fresh gas and check how tight belt it
Sand blast ur plugs to clean just be certain to clean out the media well
Hi Matt. Thanks for the suggestion, I do have one of those small spark plug sandblasters, I would use it on a lawn mower, but I don't use it on my sled. Just to clarify, I do clean plugs when I have an intermittent issue, but I think a fresh plug is always the best option when plugs foul.
Hi, great video. I have been successfully cleaning plugs for years. Learned how to in high school auto class. (1980). A small sandblaster that hooks up to your shop air line, specifically made for spark plugs. The medium is very fine, so as to not damage the porcelain. You can find one at princess auto. Cheers,!
Thanks jci. Glad you enjoyed it. To be honest, I’d probably just throw fresh plugs in, but i may clean some of the plugs in my mowers etc. Thanks for watching and sharing!
The old Hirth I use to ride did not foul plugs , it ate them . Bang and no more .
Heheh that is an old sled.
I can’t let my rmk idle for more the 10 seconds or it will foul a plug just one thought? I use to let it idle for a minute or two but know it can’t? Also engine light is on now and when you rev it wide open it spits and sputters the sled has good compression so I don’t really know what the problem is? Maybe fuelling or spark problem could it be the clutch as I am at sea level and using a mountain set up in the clutch let me know. Thanks
Did you change anything? I can think of a few things that could do that. Injectors?
Injectors, fuel filter, ive read plugs and wires but I doubt that.
My Old Sled Thanks for the response!
The clutch has nothing to do with it. Remember that the "power plant" and the "transmission" are two separate systems.
Of course they tell you they’re not cleanable they wanna sell more, like any business. This is a fact they have a spark plug sandblaster you can buy at Harbor freight that works very very well on fouled spark plugs, brings them back to life!!!!!!!!!!!!
Todays spark plugs have a very thin trivalent chromate coating which aids in corrosion resistance. This coating is pitted and damaged by any or the abrasive methods of cleaning plugs. A brass wire brush is a much better option as you are less likely to get sandblast media caught in the plug and ending up in a cylinder. You can get a fouled plug to fire, but its always best to replace them. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Br9eya and don't look back. I've had the same set in my triple for 4 years and including always running 150:1 mix in tank besides the oil pump all season long and summarizing and fogging it and they still haven't fouled out!!
Hi Larry. Could be wrong, but I believe that will depend on the motor you’re putting it in. The heat range [9] of that plug, would be more likely to foul in my machine. Glad you found a solution that works well in your machine, thanks for watching And commenting.
I've found in a pinch ether or gas on the plug and light it. It has worked for me and got me back to the trailer or got the job finished in weed whackers and chainsaws a couple times.
I have found the same with that cleaning method. Works even better if you use a propane torch to bring it up to a higher temp. Not red hot but closer to the proper operating temp.
Oil pumps east to work on
I’ve fouled over 10 plugs this year , on startup , I have a 2010 iq shift cfi , run perfect if you thrown new plugs in it and runs like a champ
Just went to take the sled out and starts easy , gets to 10c take it out of the shed , let’s it warm up , one plug fouls at 25c one side keeps running , so upset
Something seems wrong there. Frustrating...I did see lots of comments in forums about that sled fouling.
Have you ever cleaned the power valves? I read a post for this sled where one was sticking and doing that. Any hesitation above 6000 rpm? Or Maybe weak spark on one side.
Throttle position sensor setting and injectors also seem to be a cause on that motor.
My Old Sled it’s strange , it’ll start fine , I can clearly hear it runing on two cylinders, as I’m letting it warm up , one side will go , it’ll never be both plugs ? It’ll run on one side , I don’t wNt to give it more gas to try to revive the other plug because I don’t want to do damage obviously. It would be strange for it to be a problem with tps/ injectors because I’ll throw new plugs in and she’ll run perfect, I didn’t have any problems last year when the sled only had 20 hour/300km, I’ve got a total of 80 hours on the machine now and ohh the misery , seems like warming it up to 50 without touching throttle will result in a blown plugs and taking off prematurely will also foul a plug , I’m stuck , coming from a dirt bike background I’m used to blowing plugs on my Yamaha 2 strokes during breakin period when the mixture is rich , but never have I ever had such issues with spark plugs as this iq shift 600 cfi
Tip of the day get yourself a sandblaster cabinet and try cleaning your plugs you won’t be disappointed they become brand new. I’ve had the worst plugs come to life. Porcelain is a white as the day you bought the plug
Make sure you clean it well tho nothing like sand in your motor
I had blown up my sled because I didn't change my plugs in the beginning of the year and it was lean so remember Change your plugs.
Old plugs shouldn't make your engine blow up
Hi Mat. I don't think the fact that you didn't change your plugs would have anything to do with bowing up your sled.
mat Sottile - Like we say in my country "what does the pants have to do with the ass?!" Just because they are both in the same place. It mean absolutely nothing.
Your engine, for sure, blow up for a series of reasons. None of them was because it was using "old" plugs. You can be sure of that! ;-)
i use a sand blaster and it works well to clean them
Me too I am fouling pretty often as of this season. I think I may need to cut the oil back a tiny bit as Dave says to not do.
Hi Live...what I normally say is you need to be careful, that you're better to have too much oil than not enough. You should have things set the way they should be according to your service manual. A lot of guys crank back oil or switch to hotter plugs without really figuring out whats going on thats all. Good luck.
Went to my local skidoo dealer for some new plugs it turned out it was an issue with my tether plug not making a good connection came home played with it and she fired up and ran like a top. They said it would run as if the plugs were fouled if good contact wasn't made.. thanks Dave for replying and happy riding 😎😎great videos by the way
When you have a 09 polaris that needs to warm up for 10m when it's -40
Throw a blanket over it and heat up the oil and engine block with a hair dryer or heat gun
Is there a better plug that won't foul so easy on these skidoos? I have 97 formula z 583
Irridium spark plugs are less likely to foul. Sometimes switching to a hotter plug can help, but i generally try to eliminate any other cause of fouling with the manufacturer recommended plug first. Anything that can interfere with ignition, good wires, coil, fuel, clean carbs etc.
Have same version of this ski doo but is a 800 and it was my first two stroke sled and I thought it was blowing up but turns out was the plug and it happens every week almost what is best plug for them
Check your manual but I think it’s BR9ecs
Get a hotter plug and ride it like you hate it😉 my 440x race sled needs to be started and ridden after 20 secs it started or i blow the plugs(race gas)
Try heating Them with a propane torch. It Will dry the porcelain.
In what region do you ride Dave?
District 9. Bruce Peninsula.
Cool cool
Keep going with the good video’s man.
Thanks.
Please do more riding video's thanks
Need snow!
Looks like maybe this week...
I look forward to it
Carb cleaner and 1000 grit sandpaper fixes fouled plugs every time, they told you to replace them to make more money simple as that. Clean the plug end and sand the contacts lightly, then clean again, and before reinstall, hit the end with a lighter to heat them up and burn off the carb cleaner. This method has worked even on fouled plugs found in a 1945 Farmall tractor, original plugs, took 5 minutes and they work great three years later. Don't buy the lies of the corporations, they make stuff that's designed to fail so you will buy more. Simple as that.
Hi Jason. I never go by the word of a manufacturer or retailer alone, though i do refer to them for specific technical information. I spoke with a number of engineers, 2 sled mechanics as well as speaking with the manufacturers. There are a variety of ways to clean plugs and yes, they can be made to fire again, and i do use a number of these methods in a pinch, but all of them can physically change the metal in the electrode and damage the T.C coating. I always replace thoroughly fouled plugs when Im finished riding. Thanks for watching and sharing your experience.
@@MyOldSled I understand, and yes they are never as good as new, but I've always found that reusing old stuff is always better than buying new. Most of the time newer stuff is usually of much worse quality than old. As long as the plug fires at the right gap, the results are the same. Thanks for your response
Hey, thanks for taking the time to comment. You have a ‘45 tractor?
@@MyOldSled yes, a 1945 Farmall m wide front with a loader. Found her in a field in Alaska having sat there for 38 years, engine seized, and the wiring melted. Took about a week and a half of working on her, and about $200 in parts to get her running and now it's more reliable than my 95 Chevy pickup
Very cool
I use 🚽 bowl cleaner(it's for porsalin) saves me $$$. works amazing hope it helps. Sock for 1 min /then clean/let dry /use.
I clean my fouled plugs in my autoclave. It fixes em 50% of the time
Hot topic….so many comments on different solutions to clean them. I’ve explained why a number of times in comments, but while there are ways to get fouled plugs to fire, best solution for a fouled plug is always replacing it. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Lol I’m the kid with a new toy in winter my bike would puff once in a while and not start I would pull it out brake clean it and dry it with a towel and it would work Fine for a bit then I would repeat until snow melted then I ran it hard and never needed a new plug or have to clean it
I don't think I would want to take a chance at riding my sled after 10 minutes of idle because up north here it can get -35c to -40c where my starter would freeze lol
Where abouts up north?
Hi im have a problem starting my 1992 ski doo formula 470. Its got a spark and fuel i have been able to ride the season and ive had it since December 2019
That motor is a hard pull I believe. Have you checked your compression. Cleaned the carbs? Whats happening? Is it flooding? How many shots are you giving the primer?
@@MyOldSled ive checked the compression i cleaned the carbs twice and ive flooded it a few times but i unflooded it. Ive primed it over 10 to 15 times a day but it still wouldn't start
So you should only prime it 3 times, any more than that will flood it. Did you watch my "Starting a sled with a primer" video?
What is the compression?
@@MyOldSled one was 130 on the dot and the other was 140
Blow torch and get them red hot
Hi Kurtis…so many comments on different solutions to clean them. Guys just hate buying plugs i guess :) I’ve explained why a number of times through the comments, but while there are ways to get plugs to fire, best solution for a fouled plug is always replacing it. Heating a plug with a torch can heat it to thousands of degrees beyond its operational range and can damage it in several ways. Thanks for watching and commenting!
Cleaning plugs: blowtorch till all the carbon is burnt off, wire brush, brake clean then blow off with compressed air and your good to go.
What type of blowtorch are you referring to? What temp?
My Old Sled any standard propane torch. Hit it with the heat until the ground strap begins to glow and all of the carbon burns off. Done this many times when In a pinch.
Use a torch and get it red hot for about 4 mins
That would be heating it to as much as 3900 degrees. The typical temperature they are designed to work at is around 500 degrees. Heating the nickel alloy in the electrode to those temperatures with result in changes in electrical resistance, thermal expansion which can result in the separation of the trivalent chromate coating which prevents corrosion, and can alter the structure of the metal, making it brittle.
Who cares if plugs are fouled...I'd rather have a rich plug then a dry cylinder! Love the sled though, keep up the good work! 🤘
Well...I like my sled to run as well :) Thanks for watching and commenting.