The Sound Type
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- Опубликовано: 8 сен 2024
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What would happen if Pokemon were to add the Sound type in Pokemon Scarlet and Pokemon Violet?
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Great video Wolfey!
Nice, bring in the sponsor money!
If you follow Ruffledrowlet, it really seems like the new gimmicks will be triple types.
I know you already made a video on it, but most of the points you pointed out there (item + triple stab, design, …) are solved if you use an item to get the type.
Do charizard + water stone = fire / flying / water with a blue recolor.
What about that implementation? Still OP?
What Pokémon would use the feature (remember, you loose the item) and benefit most?
Would it have to be restricted to once per team like Megas and z moves or is it balanced enough by itself because of the no item drawback?
rock should be good against sound because of rock music overpowering the sound
How would pixilate work then? Sylveon has that ability to use moves like hyper voice. Would they change it to be based off sound moves then? @WolfeyVGC
From a thematic sense, some of your ideas for Sound's typing could make sense.
Sound being super-effective against water can be explained in the same way that electric's matchup can: water conducts sound too. Sound travels further in water and this is one of the major reasons environmentalists worry about how loud our ship engines are.
Ice resisting sound also tracks well, because snow is an extremely good soundproofing insulator. This is why it's really hard to find people trapped under an avalanche, and why it always feels just a little more peaceful and quiet during a heavy snowfall.
Bug resisting Sound also makes sense, many species of bugs are quite noisy and spend a lot of time communicating via high-pitched buzzing noises, so it makes sense that they'd be fairly acclimated to loud sounds.
Not sure how you'd explain the Fairy matchup, but Fairy always seemed pretty arbitrarily tacked-on anyway so whatever. Dragon Claw phasing right through Clefairy makes just as little sense as Boomburst being super effective against it.
I would explain the fairy one with how so many fae stories have to do with how fairys depend on hearing certain things: Being told they may enter, knowing your name, etc.
cools seeing you here, love your videos and I agree with your thoughts
what a crossover 🔥
Ya, I think fairy being weak to sound makes sense.
I believe it's a trope for fairies or fey in general to hate noise; especially human-made noise.
I would imagine the fairy/sound interaction being like a medieval forest filled with fae (fairy) creatures living in peaceful, quiet tranquility. The loud, chaotic sounds of the sound type disturb the peace of the fairy abode. This could justify why it’s super effective on fairy and why it is not very effective on sound. The fae are drowned out by the noise the sound type makes, and are forced to hide away.
As much sense as Bug Buzz being a sound type move is taking away probably the best special bug move away from bug types would be a massive nerf to a lot of bugs despite getting a new 2X offensive type matchup
Just had a "good" idea. What if bugs had a underlying ability that made any sound type move they use turn into a hug type move, kinda like how dark is immune to prankster ability. And would allow bug to keep they're better moves
Pollen puff can get more common
just make it dual type like flying press
Or if Sound-Types have a +40 Attack (or 1.5, so STAB) to sound moves (that‘s already a category).
+40 would be a cool gimmick so that Status moves (Growl, Roar) could deal additional damage.
Bug Buzz could be double typed like Flying Press maybe.
Other than light type (which is redundant now that fairy type exists), sound type seems to be the most popular fan type out there. You can really feel the World Champ Difference (TM) compared to other speculations about this, so thanks for the analysis!
Xenoverse: Per Aspera Ad Astra has that type and... it's pretty powerful, giving Water, Fairy and Flying a new weakness that are also walled by them, Dragon and electric a new prey they also resist and Psychic 1 more resist
I want a Chaos type. Where each time the type do a Chaos type attack...the Pokemon gets a dual type at random.
@@supernintenjoe8911 Because more rng is exactly what the game needs
Well cosmic would also work if you want to separate it from psychic
Cyber type
I’ve honestly always thought psychic should hit steel for super effective, an old trick with psychics in the circus used to be bending spoons and making chains move on their own etc. it’s lore friendly and would balance psychic and steel so well
Yeah I never understood why they didn't make psychic strong against steel I mean they literally created alakazam that is based on this specific thing
@@duckyduke954 you’re right, I never even thought of alakazam, he’s literally holding spoons haha
@@ryanwinchester6644 The Japanese even named Kadabra after the guy who's famous for that trick: Uri Geller.
Steel was introduced to nerf psychics
@@lv1543 but it doesn’t do anything to psychic types directly, it was literally introduced as a strong defensive type to balance the game as psychic was a really strong offensive type, but with dark types and way more ghost types than the first 2 gens psychic is just shit whereas steel has remained very strong, therefore this change would balance them
I think thematically it would make sense for grass, ice, and ground to resist sound. mainly bc trees, snow, and dirt/sand all act as great insulators of sound. and I would actually make bug immune to sound bc most insects don’t hear sound in the same traditional sense we do and an immunity would definitely buff bug types.
edit: I realize that making ground resist sound would buff ground type, an already great type so instead rock should resist sound. the whole dirt/sand as an insulator of sound still makes sense with the rock type too :)
The only hesitation I would have is concern for ground becoming too strong. It already insanely strong offensively and ok defensively.
Yeah maybe not ground, and we also dont want sound to be unviable as well. I really do like the idea of bug having an immunity tho
Replace ground with rock, and you're on to something.
Kricketune would like to have a conversation
And Fairy is basically the typing of Princess Mononoke's Deer God. It's weak to everything manmade: toxic sludge, refined iron, and the quintessential invention of man: fire. Fairy can be weak to boomboxes, too.
I would still give Noivern and Toxicitry the sound type. Noivern becoming a Sound/Dragon and Toxicitry's two forms either making it Poison/Sound or Electric/Sound
I think Toxtricity ability already work as a workaround to give him 3 types. Just like how Dhelmise is Grass/Ghost/Steel thanks to it's ability.
@@Magnet_Chaos making a 3-type pokemon would open up Pandora’s box in terms of balancing pokemon
@@NovaBurst We already have one with Dhelsmise.
@@Magnet_Chaos Dhelmise has three STABs but only two defensive types. Not quite the same. Also it gets that additional STAB at the cost of not getting any other Ability.
@@codahighland The 3 Stabs thing is what I was reffering to though.
Bug could be full-on immune to sound given many of them lack hearing organs and as a whole they just aren’t bothered by sound
Bugs could use the win lol
As for the moves they should mostly stay away from changing non normal-type sound moves, bug types need Bug Buzz and Clangoring Scales makes sense as Dragon
The sound type itself should also be immune to sound, it just makes sense.
Blasting a sound type with more sound isn't going to be very effective, and it'll make it so that using them becomes slightly more complicated
the hearing organs of bugs are also much more durable
@@MrSamthefan additionally if you know how waves work you know that a positive wave and a negative one negates eachother, and there could be a special sound move that affects sound types or an ability that allows sound pokemon to hit eachother, just for further balancing
@@MrSamthefan sound doesn’t always negate itself, so some sound types just having an ability that makes them immune is probably better
@@ZacTheLit It's moreso that sound type pokemon should be at least resistant to sound type attacks because, well, they've gotta be resistant to loud noises. I'm moreso looking at this from an ecology perspective where if you want to be a creature that can blast soundwaves, you need to have some form of protection against those sound waves.
You should had also mentioned Meloetta, the sound type fits her thematic wise.
At 8:15 he has her as the banner for it
he didn't mension the obvious ones smh
@@angel_of_rust Exploud is a quite obvious one and was mentioned
The issue I see with Sound specifically is that a lot of Normal special moves are sound moves, so converting them into sound moves would reduce the number of special-type moves that normal has
But then again, Normal Type isn't that great to begin with so it's just there.
normal type is great, its only resisted by 2 types and immuned by 1
Just make moves capable of being normal or sound based on their typing
normal is just decent
@@emperortoho it's somewhat bad because it can't hit anything supereffective
I just noticed that you should swap the defensive types, since it now looks like Ice, Bug, Poison and Rock only deal half damage and Steel, Water, Flying and Fairy do double damage
It's surprising how few people have mentioned this mistake in the comments. I was scrolling through to check if anyone had noticed and thought I was going crazy
Yep. Came here to comment the same. xD
Tiny mistake on the video.
That confused the hell out of me while watching
I was really struggling while looking at the graph. I have it paused to understand it and I'm like yo. This graph is in reverse. Am I thick? 😂
@@philophos same
I really like the idea of adding a new type however I feel like completely countering Steel, fairy AND Water both offensively and defensively while only being countered by weak types would just put it in S+ tier immediately and therefore not really solve the issue
At least it’s weak to stealth rocks
Resisting water fairy steel and flying seems nuts lol
i agree and i think the big problem is that new types cant balance the meta at large, only affect a few types. the real fix would be sharing fairies' opness between fairy n sound n slightly reworking the existing type chart. no reason fairy should be se vs fighting. draggos are creatures of nature so either ground or grass should resist it. steel is wayyy harder to melt than rocks so get rid of its fire weakness, and grass can be dormant under ice for months its only drough+fire which fk it up. i feel like draggon is meant to be an offensive type w no major defensive flaws, in order to not promote evil stall i think dragg should largely maintain its all around offensive nuetrality and just pick a weakness or two
@@Jonathanking88 That's...also not how game metas work, though. Just introducing a new type isn't going to instantly make those types work - it's what that Type is attached to, what moves and Pokemon it's attached to, that will affect its relevance; if those elements ARE solid, then it wouldn't necessarily 'balance' the metagame to make it more fun to play, because then the meta revolves around the new type, and just replacing the problem with the new hotness isn't any more interesting than just keeping it the same.
...If anything, creating a type that nerfs Steels and Fairies could just bring the Dragon meta back...
I think that's not terrible if you look how mundane the sound reworked pokemon would be, but it wouldn't be game freak if they didn't throw 10 new busted Pokémon with sound type in. I get trying to bring up some of the weaker types but let's be real it'd just do to fairy what fairy did to dragon whilst rock and bug still would suck poopoo imo. I think you pick fairy or Steel to counter or at least just take one resistance or super effective. Don't have to resist and hit both for x2
Make Sound type mons immune to sleep. It'd both make sense and buff the ice type since freezing would be the only alternative
I think Ice type is okay. Coz they have 4 weakness and 4 strenght. But prblm is there is very less number of ice type pokemons and they are not so powerful or cool looking. My favourite type is Ice always but I dont play with Ice just because of their base power is weak.
@@n-zedorai6613 yeah they glass cannon. The best ice type usually have 1-2 stat excessive and always offensive.
@@Watch-0w1 what do you think about Rubber type? The opposite version of steel, flexible body which is super effective against Electric
@@n-zedorai6613 but rubber is made of tree sap. U can probably try make man made plastic Pokemon. Weak to ice and fire, immune to water , and resist rock, steel, fighting, normal, ground
@@Watch-0w1 Rubber can be made from Tree sap for which u r thinking its similar to Grass. But what about Water and Ice, Rock and Ground, Dark and Ghost? These are a lot smilar to each other. But they got their own type coz they have some different features. Similarly Rubber has completely different attitude. You can also call it "Flexible" type.
Rubber is a electricity insulator. Also its so flexible and cant be broken. So It will resist Electricity, Steel, Fighting, Rock. Rubber is also similar to sponge, Tires, helly, spring, whip. There are some rubberlike pokemons too like Woffbuffet, Grumpig, Jellicent, spoink, Ditto, Swalot, Lickilicky, Tangrowth etc. Rubber is also waterproof.
I feel like the main problems with adding the sound type would be the fairly small and specific population of pokemon that already exist and would fit, and the fact that I can't see any reasonable way for sound to not be resisted by steel, making it only stronger
Have you thought about the sound being loud enough to rattle the steel? I know it's a stretch, but it is an explaination.
Sound travels better through solids than air. Same with liquids. So they actually make a lot of sense. You can also say that it just ignores steels defenses as its attacking the ears. So those two streangths make a ton of sense. Its actually all the other types with the major problems thematically
@@ivanbackfromthecardshop8093 fairies have tiny ear drums. We could reasonably say that that's a thing.
@@kanecrotty2576 fairies are also small but their big in the pokemon verse, same with bug types.
Ariados knows minimize and stalks it's prey...
@@youtubestudiosucks978 true, but bugs don't have ears. And a better explanation could be that fairies don't like loud noises.
Since you were focusing on this from a competitive perspective first and foremost, I think it would have been better to determine type interactions first and THEN decide a hypothetical theme that would fit that criteria.
Right, water being weak to it makes no sense
Sound travels faster in water than air, that's about the only thing I can think of and it's maybe a weak justification
Agree, the theoretical type has great interactions but that has nothing to do with Sound, so there’s no way that’s what it actually ends up being like.
@@aelianaevergreen8955 That’s a more solid reasoning than some of the existing type matchups.
@@aelianaevergreen8955 doesn't sound do the complete opposite? Sound can't travel through dense particles like rocks and sound travels worse in water as it is denser than air.
I feel like Sound Type would just be Fairy 2.0, because by countering the strongest type, you become the strongest type. Plus, unlike fairy which is mainly designed to counter the strongest type at that time (dragons), sound is made to counter the most dominant type rn and then some
But, if we’re really going down the broken route, forgo Noivern’s Flying type for Sound, add Levitate, and just watch that bat dragon go ham with specs stab boomburst
That would be too strong
Total 305 damage
Your “and then some” comment was to make sure the new type wasn’t OP like Fairy. The whole point of the video was to counter Fairy while not being OP itself. That was his problem in the first place!
Edit: Don’t even argue with me because you clearly don’t know how to pay attention, anyway.
@@sandyr5407 The OP's argument is that Fairy was broken because it was good against the then-best type, and so Wolfy's Sound would be even more broken, because it is good against the now-best type + a few more types. Adding strengths to Sound against more than just Fairy does nothing to prevent Sound from being broken; preventing Sound from being broken was not the point of adding those strengths.
@@sandyr5407 “Dont even try to argue with me”
That’s a good way to sound condescending, close minded, and incredibly stupid at the same time, but I digress
What I mean by sound countering the strongest type and then some is that Sound countered not only Fairy but also Steel and Water, those three are the strongest defensive types in-game, similar on how Fairy was made to counter gen 5’s strongest types at that time (Dragons, Fighting, and Dark)
Edit: Examples of strong Fairy, Water, and Steel types are: Tapu Fini, Toxapex, and Corviknight. And strong gen 5 Dragons, Fighting, and Dark types are: Hydreigon, Terrakion, Tyranitar
I would argue just about every generation comes with a gimmick that severely impacts gameplay, it’s just that the next generation kept them in the old days.
Abilities, weather, physical/special split, held items, new types, etc.
What’s kinda interesting to me is designing a type this way ends up a little unbalanced because, by design, it’s strong against most of the best types and only weak against bad types. Obv it makes those types worse and better, but I still think it comes out on top. I think more thematic focus would actually end up with a better mix of type effectiveness
Yeah but he said that he is going to make it in a competitive way, not a thematic way
@@glaxyl Yeah, that's what they said, it's unbalanced
It's just broken offensivly, a type cannot hit steel types super effectivly if it can also hit other powerful types for super effective damage otherwise it just become a new dragon/fariy type offesively. Currently 2/3 of types that hit steel for super effective have an immunity otherwise those types would be to good offensively by virtue of being able to hit steel types.
yeah this was literally the same strategy used to make the fairy type lol
make sense but most of the sound based pokemon have bad stats, you are not going to see some pseudolegendary stats or dragon like stats with this type probably
at most alakazam or gengar stats, glass canons that hit hard with good sp atk
only Exploud, Wiggly, Meloetta could be usable
I think it would be cool if the sound “property” was expanded to included type match ups. Like Hawluchas flying press having 2 types, moves like big buzz and boomburst could just have added type interactivity
I think boomburst dont need it, bug buzz could be a duo type move
yes because we need water pulse to be water/sound and deal 8x damage to a fire/fairy
They need to revisit dual type moves.
Maybe multiplying is too much. Maybe just calculate the damage as half of BP is one type and the other half is the other.
@@marverickbin wow i never think about that what a good idea you have
I don't think that should be like a huge thing. However, there are moves like freeze dry and there should be only a few more moves like that. But only a few more.
This sounds like a tall order Wolfe, but I'd like to see how you'd create the ultimate perfect type chart, which may or may not include this new type.
I really enjoy these types of informative videos, can't wait to see which idea you use next!
Yeah, you are right! I mean some details that he mentioned I like really expressed my anger when not agreeing, but overall this is an excellent proposal. IMO Perfect in every way for me. I love it so much that I actually post it on Pokemon's FB page to support the proposal. Hope they see this.
he alrdy made a bunch of videos, adjusting certain types to make the ultimate perfect type chart ;)
Plenty of perfectly balanced type charts have already been made. His would likely just end up being a copy of those.
For those curious, Dark and Steel were pretty much added as counters to Psychic and Normal as they were super strong in G1. So that’s why Dark is immune to Psychic and why Steel resists Normal and Psychic as well.
Also, Dark is called the Evil type in Japan, so it technically already exists!
Yep, they hit Psychic with like 4 nerfs at once. Adding Dark and Steel, splitting Special, and arguably the crit rework all nerfed Psychic types. It's not like they didn't deserve to be nerfed that hard, but dang.
@@LibertyMonk Do you know how OP it was in gen 1? Saying it didn't need to be nerfed is like saying that Landorus should get a BST increase.
@@theserpent8667 The person said they didn't need to be nerfed that hard, not zero nerfs, they were over nerfed a big part of the issue was the lack of good super effective moves against them, back in gen 1 there was an over abundance of poison types, a lack of good ghost/bug moves, and only one actual ghost type line, and ghost was physical back then so gengars lick wouldn't do much damage anyways
@@austinwolfe1714 I see. Sorry if it sounded like I'd overreacted.
@@austinwolfe1714 also psychic was immune to ghost in gen 1 instead of weak to it, not that it mattered anyway since lick was the only ghost damage move in the game
I'd argue *every* generation added something that drastically impacted battles.
Gen1: The start
Gen2: Items, Steel and Dark
Gen3: Abilities
Gen4: Physical/Special Split
Gen5: Hidden Abilities(specifically Drizzle, Drought, etc) and Gems
Gen6: Megas and Fairies
Gen7: Z-moves
Gen8: Dynamax
Gen1: psychological horror for psychic types
I think the difference is that all those things were built on in later generations, whereas Gen6 and up have been more or less one-off stuff.
Special attack and physical attack were separated before Gen 4
The physical special split happened in generation 2 tho
@@hellhound74 no it was gen 4
Im pretty sure that sound travels faster in water or metals than in the air so having a sound type that can hit water and steel types for supereffective damage also makes sense thematically
almost none of the other interactions made any sense though
@@beautifulnova6088 well maybe poison is super effective against it cause sound = open mouth and you dont want poison in your mouth
although yeah it doesnt really make much sense i agree
@@beautifulnova6088 poison= can’t sing when you’re sick
bug= can’t sing when you have parasites idk?
rock= destroys the sound system when you throw it at it lol
flying= birds love to sing so they wouldn’t want to ruin it for other people duh
psychic= can’t sing with a headache
@@tiendungle2145 that doesn't make any sense because not every sound is produced by the mouth
This feels kinda like what they did for the fairy type; just giving it an advantage over everything that's currently good, and I think this version of the sound type would end up the same way; OP.
Yeah I thought it was very uncreative when he did the type interactions. “Let’s make it resist fairy, steel, water and make it super effective against fairy, steel, water!”
Except Fairy also just randomly resists an already really bad type, Bug is now the Steel type of Pokemon resisting it, with a whopping 7 types
he's trying to do too much for the meta with just one type
@@sprucefox2239 He should just directly nerf Fairy and directly buff Ice, Bug and Poison, it's easier that way and doesn't involve making some.of the issues he's technically trying to fix worse (Bugs no longer get STAB Bug Buzz? One of their BEST Special Moves?)
I was thinking of a few realistic Nerfs too other than the resistances like a Sound Type would struggle offensively after an enormous crit but would fail to do half as much again- It took up too much energy, Vocal Noise, or Body Strength in general
I can predict the future… the mechanic is called “terastilization”
An important note would be meloetta becoming one of the main stays of the sound type since along with ability it would have great coverage and defense with form swapping between sound / psychic or sound / fighting. This also would allow for a legendary [mythical] pokemon to be the face of the new type besides the box pokemon and maybe cause for an event to re-release her into the game
Also her entire theme is sound (music), has the normal typing which would fit the new type rework criteria, and relic song is a normal move which could change into a sound type. It fits thematically and has the criteria for it. If there is any pokemon to get sound type it would be Meloetta.
There are WAY too many Dragon and Flying types. Make Noivern a Dragon and Sound type instead, it’ll probably become a unique typing. I could also see Mylotic becoming a water and sound type since it’s known to have a beautiful voice
I read all of Milotic’s Pokédex entries (from the games and the anime), and none of them are about its voice. You may have confused it with Altaria, whose entries all mention its beautiful singing or its voice in general.
Also does toxtricity Need to be poison?😅
Or maybe mixed up with primarina
@@insertnamehere1398 I think it would be cool if they made one of toxtricity forms an electric/sound type, and the other a poison/sound.
But still both of them would learn electric, poison and sound moves.
Milotic should have fairy type its literally the ugly duckling but fish version its literally a fairy tale
Sound type would probably be super effective to “gentle” types, ones which are sensitive by theory. Loud noises cause headaches, so Psychic types might be weak to them, and Fairy types dont benefit from noisy cities either. Lightning creates Thunder, which is an extremely loud sound, so perhaps electric types would be resistant, and i don’t know of MANY bugs with ears, so bugs could also resist. Echoes would also be an important factor to consider.
Thinking of Echoes, maybe the sound type would get a 1.2 buff if the fight is inside a cave or mountain?
@@ng42. echoing terrain:
-grounded pokemon get a power boost on sound based moves
Sound also travels through water faster due to a density difference so it being super effective there would make sense. This type has too much potential IMO to not be used given how much it would help balance the META, be meaningful to pre-existing pokemon AND still make sense to a high degree with its strengths and weaknesses.
It's a cool idea to try to balance the type strenghts by adding the sound type but you have to justify them, you can't just add a new type only to be convenient with other types it has to make sense thematically too... If we're logical I think the sound type should be super effective against water (sound travels faster though water), steel (sound travels even faster through steel) and psychic (sound can bother your focus, music can control your emotions) and weak to bug (bugs produce sounds and are not bothered by it), grass (cotton can be use to isolate walls from sound, trees can mute some sounds) and maybe another type but I can't figure out which one
My idea: Sound could be immune to itself and as for moves; Feedback Loop is one that'll do super effective damage to Sound types and if you want a physical Sound-type move, there's Do The Wave that is basically a variant of Beat Up.
maybe grass or ground since wood, cotton, etc are insolators to sound so is the ground
@@JamesDavy2009 my problem with that is that bug types should be (somewhat like ducky duke said)
@@perehahafunny oooh that's smart
I would make the sound type weak to rock and poison...
Poison because when we are ill we have a weaker voice.
And rock because rock bounces back the sound. (Echo)
Y’know Sound being strong against Steel and Water actually makes sense since sound travels faster through solids and liquids (If I remember correctly)
Yup
Not only does it travel through them, depending on the material, it can travel much faster than it does through air.
On that same note, being weak to rock would not make much sense, but that ain't the point of this video.
yeah....This type just seems really overtuned.
@@noah9942. I'm pretty sure that that's exactly what OP already said
One of the things that made fairy type so OP is that so many Pokémon retroactively suddenly became fairy. This meant that you now had fairy Pokémon of like every type combination and niche. You now had bulky stall fairies, offensive powerhouses, status enablers, physical/special mixed attackers and everything in between. Fairy is now the jack of all trades but also the master of all as well.
Also, fairy Pokémon don’t have a design philosophy either. It’s just if it looks like a fairy it’s a fairy. Compare that to like rock type which generally focuses physical def/atk but low spec def/atk or like psychic which is generally focused on spec atk/def but low phy def/atk. At least with dragon type they are generally quite one dimensional in usually just being offensive attackers so it was easier to balance. With fairies though, it’s gonna take a lot to try and balance it
Fairy Isn’t Op Anymore , Almost Every Pokemon Can Learn Steel & Poison Type Moves While Fire Also Resist It As Well . 💯 Secondly There Are No Buff Fairy Type Pokemon With Great Defense , You’re Living In The Past .
@@melvondrewhite2674 First up, fairy is definitely still a tad OP. They have one of the most spammable moves in the game in Moonblast, have incredible offensive and defensive capabilities, and pair incredibly well with multiple other types. There's a reason why Wolfey placed so many fairy combos high in his type combo rankings.
Also, Magearna certainly fits the criteria of an offensive fairy type with great defense.
@@blazefactor6849 Fairy Is NOT Op , You Obvious Don’t Play Competitive Or Know Anything About Type Matchups Cause You Just Named 2 Pokemon That Are “ Legendaries “ As If That Counts . 😂 , Um Talking About Regular “ NON-Legendary “ Fairy Type Pokemon . Xerneas Is A Damn Legendary , It Doesn’t Count !
@@melvondrewhite2674 Uhh... you never specified that we weren't allowed to bring up legendaries. You just said "There Are No Buff Fairy Type Pokemon With Great Defense".
Also, I think you're the one who doesn't play competitive. Magearna has been legal and very powerful in multiple formats in terms of singles, and legendaries are allowed a good chunk of the time in VGC.
As for knowing anything about type matchups... What? I don't get what you mean by this.
I do agree moonblast is a bit spam able and should def be nerfed but I would definitely say fairy as a type is not broken it's more that game freak slapped the type on a bunch of legends so for nerfs it would probably be better to directly nerf those mons instead of the entire type like for example adding a bug weakness would nerf those legends but would be too much for the average fairy type as scizor alone would be enough to dispose of most of them
The main problem I've always had with the idea of a Sound-type is the effect it would have on Normal. A good majority of sound-based moves are Normal-type, and sound moves make up probably around 90% of Normal-type special attacks. By making sound its own type, you take those special attacks away from Normal, leaving Normal-type special attackers with very few STAB options. It'd basically be Hyper Beam or bust
Let’s start a petition to bring back Return to the move-pool
@Choas_Lord_512 This lol
@@jeremy_seymour Wait, isn't return physical tho? Or am I dumb
Normal types and a few other mons suffer to, Special Bug types lose out on their only STAB move in Bug buzz, Skeledirge could lose on on Torch Song, Toxtricity with Overdrive and Kommo-o with Clanging Scales.
@Choas_Lord_512 You presume much.
When Fairy was added, the only moves which got retyped were the non-damaging ones. Even in Gen 2, the retyping of damaging moves was very conservative and done to mostly low power early game moves, which says a lot.
The fact that GF would have to basicly rework a core game mechanic (sound-based moves) + re-do basicly the entire special Normal type movepool is already a sign that the Sound type is never going to be a thing.
Dude, the first thing I thought when people started talking about a Sound Type was Noivern. If it got STAB Boom Burst that could hit Super-Effectively, that would be so sick!
Noivern, seismitoad, Exploud, Kommo-o they should be sound type.
For noivern dragon/sound type?
or flying/sound
@@huh-ih5wq I think Sound/Air type fits more. But if Noivern is given Sound/Dragon, then he should get Levitate ability while also knowing some Air type moves. Btw I prefer to say Air type more than saying Flying type.
@@huh-ih5wq Dragon/Sound, definitely.
@Choas_Lord_512 then why not you say surfing type, Burning type, photosynthesis type, freezing type, scary type instead of water fire grass ice etc? The name "Flying type" gives a feeling only of birds. But Air type gives both air, tornado and bird feel.
I'm personally loving these types of videos. The amount of effort put in is incredible and its really cool to see. Keep up the great work!
nice pfp :)
70th like
I feel like thematically your version of the Sound type is a tad messy, but I think the issue is you were trying to fix everything wrong with the type chart with one new type. So What I want to see is a video about how you would balance the type chart if you had total control over it. Taking into consideration the changes you made to Bug and Ice-types in their videos I think it could be great! And then work this Sound-type in knowing how you fixed the rest of the chart’s issues :)
I think he should have talked about this new type and made different videos on how to nerf the best types, like I feel electric should be super effective against steel, Grass should be super effective against fairy, and poison and ice should be super effective against water for instance, and you know why? It makes sense thematically
@@ericlohndorf9166 i think instead of ice being super effective against water i think more ice types should get freeze dry and possibly a physical freeze dry for a mon like wevile
I'd like it if Grass resisted Sound type, based on the "play classical music or sing to your plants-kind of thing".
Not quite logical, but there's more farfetched type reasonings out there and Grass is quite low on the Type Tier chart too.
However, being resisted by 5 types might be a bad introduction.
And instead of balancing the entire chart with one new type, they could make a couple of changes to the existing type chart,
Doesn't seem like the best idea if a new type suddenly is super effective to the top 3 ones. Sound being super effective against Steel and Water is cool, but maybe let an existing type be strong against Fairy?
And I know we don't got a lot of Steel/Psychic types, but it kind of makes sense if Bronzong was Steel/Sound.
Maybe Bellossom could be Grass/Sound?
And the Eeveelution could be named Tuneon?
Anyway, fun video. Hope more of your viewers subscribe.
I'd argue that gimmicks have been a part of the franchise ever since Generation 3 introduced double battles, it's just that some have been more impactful than others.
Agreed its all additional
When the gimmicks stick around for more than one generation I’ll start considering them permanent additions, otherwise they’re anything but.
@@OakenTome good point actually.
@@OakenTome A fair point, but mega evolution *was* still in Generation 7...
Wolfe is talking specifically about something central to the story of the game that adds a new way to power up that makes a huge difference in battles. Something easily marketable. Double battles by contrast are not only a mainstay, but the official format. You could argue that reverse battles, sky battles, royalle battles, rotation battles, and also tripple battles are gimmicks, but Id argue they’re still not in the same specific category as mega evolution, Z moves, and dynamax. At the time it was new (and kinda annoying when they force you to fight with an npc) and I understand that 1 on 1 is the standard in single player, but in official competitive, Calling double battles a gimmick at this point sounds like calling weather a gimmick.
The direct translation of the “Dark” type from Japanese is actually closer to “Evil” than “Dark”. I know it was thrown in as a joke, but the evil type actually already exists.
Even though it is more about "fighting dirty" than anything else, which is why Bite is a Dark-type move. (Even though it is strange on its own to call a dog a "foul player" for biting)
The problem I have with adding Sound as a type specifically is that its interactions mechanically are more interesting as a subcategory rather than as a type. As you brought up in this video, its properties are diverse and have lots of use. Tying them to a specific type feels like it removes complexity from the game. Additionally, I like the balance the type system already has with 18 types: 9 physically oriented types, and 9 specially oriented types (though Fairy was added after the physical/special split, it slots in nicely as the 9th). You've hit on a number of problems with the type chart as it currently stands, but I'm more interested in how that could be improved through balance changes, rather than adding new types, which, as other comments have pointed out, could make Sound the new Fairy, in becoming the best type.
Fantastic comment -- my thoughts exactly. This kind of band-aid fix approach is how we ended up with Fairy in the first place. Existing types need to be tweaked so that they can compete on equal footing while also allowing for extra expansion. Sound as a type is just illogical anyway, it's on the same level as repurposing all of the draining moves and creating a Vampire type. These effects have better interactions as moves.
I agree with this. Normal type currently acts as a budget sound type, as a good portion of sound moves and pokemon are normal (exploud, chatot). Making a sound type and changing the moves would remove a good portion of the powerful special moves normal type currently has (boomburst, uproar, hyper voice), and would serve as a nerf to the normal type in conjunction with pokemon losing the normal type.
Imo types like ground and rock,psychic and ghost,etc need to be made more distinctive from each other, right now some types feel like better versions of other existing types
I also think it has the same problems as fairy. It's good against crazy powerful meta types, while only being weak to less used weak types.
I think that the sound *mechanic* should stay, but sound-type moves would have the innate attribute of being a sound-based move.
@@ProNoob-vt4sb It would also severely nerf bug by taking away bug buzz
Weaknesse making sense:
Bug - make people scream
Poison - Cant sing with a sore throat
Rock - Cant sing when your mouth got smashed in by a rock and you lost your teeth
Psychic - You think when you are drunk you sound better but you are just emberassing yourself
Resistances making sense:
Fairy - Cant tell a fairy tale when people scream over you
Water - Sound makes ripples in water and travels faster through it
Steel - Steel Pipes make great sound and just help make solid venues
Flying - Birds sing better than you
Super Effective making sense:
Fairy - Fairy Tales are better when in a musical
Water and Steel - Sound travels better through them
Alright fine, you're the one who's finally convinced me that making a sound type could be fun and useful. Especially because I've been wishing bug types had more viability since a lot of them are pretty cool. (Seriously, they had the perfect chance to help out bug when adding fairy, making fairy resist bug was just pouring salt on the wound).
Yeah, I am still puzzled why they would make fairy resist to bug - both in terms of balancing the meta, _and_ thematically.
It would have more sense intuitively even if bug was very effective against fairy:
Many fairy tales depict the fae as small as bugs, so a spider could catch them in their web.
@@LinkEX not to mention all those stories where there's a faction of bugs or, at least, more bug-like pixies/monsters.
I love the idea that the counter to fairy would be screaming incredibly loudly at them
This coming from a more casual player, its also important to remember that each strength and weakness needs to make some kind of logical sense. For not only help remembering, but in also flavor.
Its is important to remember the games (despite developer views on post game.) Does have more going for it then just the competitive scene and needs to be balanced for everything.
Timestamps/suggested chapters
00:00 Central Gimmick
01:32 Type Chart
02:36 Interaction Reminder
02:53 Dragon Type
04:36 Why Was Dragon OP???
05:47 Fairy Type
06:49 Why Is Fairy OP???
08:13 VGC Guide
09:56 Introducing the New Sound Type
10:07 Sound-based Moves!
11:12 The Goal for Our Type
12:09 Weaknesses
14:21 Resistances
16:26 Super Effective
17:23 Not Very Effective
18:25 Fleshing Out the Sound Type
18:56 Re-typing
21:49 Sponsor
22:47 Outro
You know Bug-type is bad when even after these buffs it would only just reach C-tier lol
p.s. the VGC Guide is an amazing resource, I wish something like it had been around years ago. The fact it's free just goes to show that you guys genuinely have a ton of love for competitive Pokémon and just want to see it grow more and more. Huge respect for that!
It really needs to be super-effective against Fairy when ScarVio drops XP
Narratively it makes senses a insect should not be stronger than a God or demon. Bird's eat bugs
Maybe make Bug types immune to Sound type moves then? Most bugs in nature don’t have ears and a vast majority of Beetle species are almost deaf.
nah, if sound made to S tier (and I honestly feel like it would in that scenario) Bug would be AT LEAST B tier. U can see what steel became after fairy. It was always a good defensive typing, but after fairy it's actually a B/A offensive type (which it shouldn't). That just happened because fairy became that common. I don't think Bug would receive a buff that big, since there is psychic that hits sound for super effective, but it's a strong enough buff to push it to low B imo
Hey Wolfe, just noticed that on your type chart, you mixed up the weaknesses and resistances. Great video none the less, just pointing it out :)
Can confirm. Literally nothing he said matched the chart and I was so confused
Also when he said water and steel in relation to super effective damage it was swapped in the video editing
The video editor usually does a pretty good job but they sort of dropped the ball in this one...
@@letsgetsomeshoes1239 21:45 as well.
Honestly, I feel like more than a new type would be needed to properly balance out the current type chart. For example, Water should be weak to Ice instead of resistant (freezing) and weak to Poison (pollution). Grass should be resistant to Fairy because fae creatures are often protectors of nature. Dark should be resistant to Dragon to keep up the whole fantasy story theme they have going on with those types, Fighting, and Fairy (the evil sorcerer takes control of a fearsome dragon, stuff like that).
I honestly believe that almost any change to the type chart could be justified through some sort of in-universe logic.
although bug really doesn't deserve it, i always wished bug was weak to poison for thematic sense. Due to the prevalence of pesticides after all.
@@connivingkhajiit it actually was in Gen 1 but then in Gen 2 they removed that weakness
@@keffertv304 actually, they fucked it up and poison was weak to bug in Gen 1.
@@connivingkhajiit pesticides are specifically designed by humans for killing bugs though, in fact bugs eat expired food that would kill most mammals and birds, if anything they should resist poison type moves
I think fairy should be weak to fire and bug, and ice should resist fairy.
Fire already resist fairy so the same logic could be used to justify it.
When I think of fairies I think of them being small pixies, which means bugs would be giant to them (imagine being a pixie in a spider web, it would be horrifying)
As for ice... idk I just don't imagine fairies liking the cold.
I think it would make more thematic sense for sound to be super effective against psychic because loud sounds would make it harder for psychic types to focus, but psychic really needs something to make it better.
Psychic should be super effective against Steel. Kadabra and Alakazam are holding bent spoons, afterall
Types and there weakness that I'd be giving-
FIRE- Water, Ground, Rock, Air
WATER- Grass, Electric, Poison
GRASS- Fire, Bug, Ice, Air
POISON- Psychic, Ground
ICE- Fire, Rock, Fight, Steel
ELECTRIC- Ground
GROUND- Water, Bug, Ice, Grass
STEEL- Fire, Electric, Ground, Sound, Fight
GHOST- Dark, Ghost
AIR- Rock, Ice, Electric
PSYCHIC- Ghost, Bug, Dark, Sound
FAIRY- Steel, Poison, Dark
BUG- Poison, Fairy, Rock, Fire, Air
FIGHT- Air, Psychic, Fairy,
DARK- Bug, Fight, Fairy
ROCK- Steel, Water, Fight, Ground, Grass
DRAGON- Ice, Steel, Fairy
NORMAL- Fight, Dragon
SOUND- Water, Grass
(Note: Changing name of Flying type to Air type, Fighting to Fight type. Air should super effect Fire as strong Wind can blow fire. Steel can conduct electricity like Water. Poison should be effecting Bug and water coz people use insecticides in the field and home to keep away bugs. Poison also means pollution, water can be polluted. But not giving Air pollution coz all creatures take breath from air not only birds. Bugs make hole in the ground for colonies.
Sound moves 15 times faster(5150 m/s) in steels than Air, so sound is super effective against Steel. Sound weak against water coz water muffles sound. Also nobody can create sound underwater coz when u open mouth to create sound, water will get into your mouth. Grass is super effective against sound coz cotton can isolate sound, trees can block some sound and trees are quiet. Also Poison will be immune to sound coz generally poisonous snakes hearing range is too low(10-600HZ only).
Dragon should be weak against steel instead of dragon coz at the end, the knight slays the dragon. Also there is no strong logic for dragon weak to dragon and dragon vs dragon rivalry ends so early in battle which doesn't give fun. Giving dragon super effecting against Normal just to give dragon strength. Dark and Fairy both should super effect each other coz angels and Evils both works against each other and wants to harm. Also "good will always prevail" this already applies for fighting so no need fairy again and this is not correct everytime.
Fairy super effective against Bug coz fairies also means light (angels are created by light) and light attract bugs. Also bug should be super effective against ground coz bugs dig holes in ground to make colonies.
What if like sound and psychic were the old school gen 1 idea of bug and poison. In this gen they were super effective against each other and this could happen with psychic vs sound. Whoever moves first wins since sound can stop the mind from processing the power and mental power could prevent sound from exiting the mouth by closing it shut.
@@digitaltailsmon4096 psychic exiting mouth is not a good logic. Sound is not always made by mouth. Like you can create sound just by clapping. Metal sound is also a move than creates sound without mouth.
Next up, if we think like you, than psychic could be super effecting against a lot of things. Like psychics can band spoon, can throw back fire and rocks that coming towards him, can float himself in the sky to dodge ground type moves, can make birds unable to fly by controlling their wings
@@n-zedorai6613 I think the confusion is with what physic means. Is it telepathy or telekinesis? Or both? You're being pretty salty towards that dude and it seems like your real problem should be with GameFreak.
i think toxtricity's typing should change according to it's form. if it is low-key, sound/poison, and if it is amped, sound/electric
Dude this is perfect! I will admit that Poison/Electric is a cool typing, but this idea is too cool to pass up.
that or buff punk rock so its basically like dhelmise having stab with out being the type
@@malxire could be, punk rock is basically sound stab anyway
Nah it doesn’t need to be sound type, it already has the boost from punk rock
@@tbone6032 but punk rock plus stab tho
I personally don’t think a Sound-type should be added, but rather, have existing types be rebalanced, most notably buffing types like Bug, Ice, and Poison, while at the same type nerfing some like Water and Fairy.
Honestly one of the other comments summed up some of the easiest changes to make, poison hitting super effective against grass and maybe water (pollution) grass being resistant to fairy (thematically fae’s are traditionally forest guardians and or protectors) ice hitting water super effective (freezing), dragons being weak to dark (I wouldn’t want this change but it’d make sense due to big bad evils taking a liking to dragons and whatnot.) and making bug and ice stats better overall.
Exactly ! 💯
I think it would be neat if, instead of having Toxic and Toxic spikes be the ways of applying badly poisoned, if they just made it so that when you get poisoned by a poison type its badly and when you get poisoned by a non-poison type its normal. Would give them a much needed niche.
I mean, they can do both.
Rock should lose its weaknesses to water and grass, imo, makes it way too similar to ground, plus water takes a really long time to erode rock compared to say, dirt and plants don't take root in stone very easily, its why rocky terrain tends to be a bit more barren.
As it stands sharing 2 of its 5 weaknesses with ground kind of makes pokemon with both types puts it in a place where it almost feels like a worse version of it instead of its own thing
oof I feel like taking Bug Buzz away from Bug Types would really act to hinder them in the process of 'filling out' the sound move repertoire. Really cool and insightful video though! I really want to see a new type introduced - experiencing the fairy meta shake up was very novel at the time.
Maybe not taking it away but changing it in a way where it works like the one move from hallucha with 2 types. Or replacing it.
@@sayaztv yea I feel like best case scenario is switching buzz to sound type and then giving it a suitable bug type replacement
@@harrydsgn thunderpunch isn't a fighting type move, why would bug buzz *have* to be sound type
@creature It’s not that it doesn’t make _sense_ for Bug Buzz to be Sound-type, it’s that you’re nerfing Bug by taking away its best special move. To keep things balanced, Gamefreak would have to bring back signal beam, distribute pollen puff much more widely, and/or just make a new, single-target special Bug move.
@creature To take your example, Fighting has all kinds of strong physical moves already: CC, Superpower, Hi Jump Kick, Drain Punch, and on and on... It doesn’t need Thunderpunch to be Fighting-type too.
By contrast, Bug has Bug Buzz and Pollen Puff at 90 BP, then Signal Beam at 75 (except they took that out of Gen 8 too...), and then they really drop off to like...Silver Wind (60 BP). The point is, Bug can’t afford to lose its only special move that’s both strong and widely-distributed.
Weakness to Poison is very strange, but the rest of the matchups work very well thematically. Psychic type Pokemon resisting sound is a bit weird for a few reasons, but I think it works okay. Water conducts sound very well, and steel being rattled and damaged by sound makes a lot of sense.
maybe cause getting sick messes up your throat and the ability to make sound? idk might be a reach lol
I feel like Rock should be Fairy third weakness. It's a very accessible type but wouldn't impact much.
And also, it's the closest thing to make sense lore wise if we take account of salt and crystals warding off spirits, in this case, fairies.I was wondering how that would affect the meta if fairy was weak to rock.
Naaaah
Lame. This doesnt make sense.
if we're talking lore with salt and crystals then ghost should also be weak to rock according to japanese folklore.
Stealth rock is a huuuuuge gatekeeper; rock is probably the single worst weakness for any type to have just because of that move.
That could also be implemented in something like Freeze-Dry, where a specific move is stronger, rather than the whole type. Although many Pokemon could get it.
Massive respect for the VGC Guide. Putting that much effort into something this great and offering it for free, is amazing. Thank you so much for that!
The Evil-type already exists since Generation II. It’s the Dark-type.
The Dark-type is called „Aku type“ in Japan, which translates to „Evil-type“.
Imagine having all your stab removed by the move throat chop.
It would make Incineroar even stronger.
Don't tell game freak. They'll fucking do it
Wow, I didn’t know anyone else shared my thoughts on the psychic/dark/ghost types feeling very separate from the other types.
Personally, I wouldn't add a new type. I would just just change a few things around. First, buffing bug. I would give it a resistance to fairy, and the ability to hit it for super-effective. Next, a buff to ice/nerf to water. I don't think ice needs a defensive buff, because it's supposed to excel offensively. So I would simply remove water's resistance to it. Next, a buff to dark. Dark is definitely an okay type, but a small buff like a resistance to poison would be nice. I don't really know how to buff poison, but I suppose allowing it to hit water for super-effective would be good. I feel like most of these would fit well thematically too.
My favorite idea for a Poison buff is actually kind of a nerf. Toxic normally badly poisons the target and is on a bunch of different types of Pokémon. What if it only gave normal poison, *unless* on a Poison-type? It would give them a much bigger niche in the meta as the only method of badly poisoning, which helps deal with walls you otherwise wouldn’t be able to handle.
EDIT: You could do the same with Toxic Spikes, where instead of two layers badly poisoning, it’s just one layer max that is badly poisoning when used by a Poison-type. You could even go a step beyond and make *all* secondary poisoning effects (like Sludge Bomb) a badly poison when used by Poison-types.
@@BoltTheEmolga Gen 8 kinda did that by not making toxic a TM
I personally think Ice does need defensive buffs because the many Ice-type tanks would benefit from it. Pokemon like Avalugg, Mamoswine, and Glastrier come to mind.
@@MrGksarathy my man obamasnow needs some more resistances
@@bharatsachdeva6683 Exactly.
Personally, I'd rather Sound remain an attribute that any type can have and see more done with it. Since you didn't base Sound weaknesses and resistances, it could be any other type.
Yeah, especially with abilities such as soundproof and moves such as throat chop. Moves and abilities could nullify an entire type, which seems somewhat iffy
@@energyshatty9020 soundproof is no different than the levitate ability in that case
@@codybromley6906 Yeah true LOL i forgot about that ability
@@energyshatty9020 Flash Fire and Volt Absorb already exist so abilities nullifying types isn't that weird, but Throat Chop might be a bit ridiculous if the sound type was made
The fact that it's already tangled up with sound-based moves would actually make it that much harder to become a full type.
Seems he should have started with what he wanted from the chart, then found something that fits the mold. Giant type could do (crush fairies, bend steel, swat flyers, bugs are too small to affect, underestimates the mental power of psychics, get beaned in the head by rocks). Then when making new monsters and reviewing the old, we get to interpret them through the lens of the titans of mythology, or just being real big.
I like the general idea of the sound type. I have wanted it since before fairy was introduced but after watching this video I think pokemon should hold off on the sound type and just change some things for fairy.
1. Change dragon immunity to resistance
2. Change bug resistance to either neutral damage or bug is super effective against fairy.
3. Fairy should be super effective against fairy. Dragon is super effective vs dragon and ghost is super effective against ghost. So the mythical creature types are super effective against themselves. Fairy is the only mythical creature type that isn't super effect against itself.
I feel like having a new added type being sound would just rob the current sound based moves of their individuality, if a new type is added it probably shouldn't be sound just to keep sound based moves (unless you wanted to start adding dual type moves)
Yeah, that's my issue here. Sure, it wouldn't be too bad for Growl and Boomburst to be retyped, but what about moves like Bug Buzz? Hell, Hyper Voice is a key move for Pixilate mons like Sylveon, but if that gets retyped, then what would replace it? I really want to be on board with the Sound-type as a concept, but with how sound-based moves have developed over the generations, I feel like something wouldn't feel right if we got it now.
You could have sound as a property be separate from Sound as a type. Have "is able to hit through substitute" by the secondary effect of moves like Hyper Voice and Boomburst while keeping Bug Buzz a Bug-type move with a property most commonly seen on Sound-type attacks. Think of it like Scald's burning properties, but for Bug/Sound types.
I feel similarly about the potential introduction of the Sound type. There's just too many mechanics at this point relating to sound moves, all of which would either have to be altered, or have to ignore the fact that the new type exists. For example, how does one justify Overdrive being Electric type now that Sound type is a thing? Or on the other hand, if Overdrive were made a Sound type move, what does that mean for our poor friend Toxtricity? My thought is that if a new type is introduced again, it should stay away from modifying a characteristic of moves that has developed so much over time. Maybe instead of a new type to nerf fairies, we could get a change or two akin to the Prankster/Dark-types adjustment. In conclusion, I agree with Wolfe that if we get a new type in Gen 8, it should definitely be BAGEL.
This is one of my concerns as well with the design as stated. Especially since moving bug buzz out of the bug type makes bug weaker. Which is counter to the design philosophy wolfe has going here.
@@ijpete98 Wouldn't Toxtricity be reworked as a Sound type though? I can't imagine the Punk Rock Pokemon not being sound type. Though I agree with the rest of the premise.
So, I think this was too direct of an approach. Personally I think I would make Sound type a glass cannon. Moving water to weak rather than resist, but ALSO making sound super effective against water. Maybe even remove another resistance, like steel, and make this one change:
All Sound Type Moves ignore Screens and Substitute. So ignore Light Screen etc, and sub. This gives it an INCREDIBLY strong and unique clause to the type, that could genuinely give it enough staying power without drowning out the rest of the competition with its voice.
Sound doesn't need to be designed to fix the issue so directly (though fairy obviously needs this step down,) if you give it enough reason to be used and give other types the moment to shine against it.
I always thought they should just make fairy weak to fire and bug, that'll fix it real fast. Fire is already a common offensive type, and this change would buff bug. You could even make ice resist fairy, to buff ice type!
@@vivil2533 making fairy weak to fire and bug is just not that great of an idea fire is already extremely good offensively and a bug weakness would cause scizor to solo pretty much the entire type
Like fairy really isn't a broken type the average fairy type is kinda just mid the only reason fairy seems op is because game freak slapped the type on a bunch of legends like if the tapu's were flying type instead of fairy we'd probably talk about how broken the flying type is
@@acetrainerdevin1164 Tapu Lele would have a counter in dark types without fairy type, Tapu Fini and Tapu Bulu would have 4x weaknesses to electric and ice respectively if they had the flying type, and Tapu Koko would probably be the same just share more similarities to zapdos and thunderous. They would definitely still be powerful but without their fairy type they would be way less oppressive in the meta.
If all sound type moves ignore screens and sub I think they’d have to severely limit the amount of Pokémon with access to them at all I’d prefer that be more niche like an ability or maybe a strong stab move with that effect however it does make much more sense if it was all moves I just am not sure if that would be good gameplay wise
I think you got the type chart backwards when making resistances and weaknesses. 1/2 defensive is for resistances when you intended it to be for weaknesses.
EDIT: Also, personally I think Bug should have a full immunity to Sound, for the same logic that they can’t be confused in your buffing video - a lack of inner ear.
EDIT2: Rillaboom essentially *has* to become Grass/Sound. Not doing so would be a disservice to the type addition. Which might make it even more busted, unfortunately.
EDIT3: You 100% could’ve (and probably should’ve) incorporated your Squarespace ad with your VGCGuide introduction
EDIT4: Another comment brought up a good point: Noibat and Noivern also kinda need to be made Sound/Flying.
I thought I was either crazy or fundamentally didn’t understand the type chart anymore when I saw that
@@Slappadabreeh same
It makes sense for it to be super effective to water and steel because sound travels faster in water and because sound can kind of like ring off of steel (like when you hit to metal things together. Sound should do no damage to bug because most bugs can’t hear. the resistances to sound kind of make sense because rock and ice can insulate the sound and psychic pokemon are just smart enough to close there ears. I think that rock would super effective because you could like shive it into what ever is making the noise (I know it sounds weird) and the psychic Pokémon could just shut there mouth like what happened to black bolt in dr.strange M.O.M. And a bug could do what the rock type would do. The resistance of water and steel make sense as I said earlier. I know Wolfy is trying to balance types but the flying, poison, and fairy just don’t make sense to me.
I think in addition to the Pokemon you gave the sound type, I would also give it to Gigalith, as its line is supposed to be a walking boom box alongside Exploud. And much as they modified other type relationships in Gen 6, I would also buff Bug and Ice a bit using some of your suggestions in previous videos. Otherwise, good video!
Oh and we could potentially get another Rotom form out of this, like an electric guitar or a loudspeaker. That could be cool.
wait gigalith is based on prisms and it only learns round. it uses solar energy for its attacks (which idk why it isnt a special attacker because of that) but it doesnt have any sound based things to do with it just solar power
if bugs resisted fairies it would at least give them more options
I love the rotom idea!
Come on hug man, you just said my thoughts about rotom.
I never used to enjoy competitive Pokemon. But you make it easy to follow and therefore, fun to watch!
Keep it up!
I think by taking this approach you put too heavy a workload on the 4 types that are supposed to beat it. This will make the type very polarising in my opinion, as you either:
1. Run one of the types that beat sound, which forces you to run a type that is otherwise very weak, or;
2. You don't run a type that beats sound, which then makes sound completely overwhelming
My approach would be to buff one or two types that are already decent (ghost/grass for example) ON TOP OF the other weaker types to make them a little more impactful. This way you give sound clear weaknesses (ghost/grass) and some other smaller weaknesses that can be used as alternatives (bug/poison/psychic).
The fairy type also used this approach with steel and poison, making steel the premier counter and poison the secondary one.
Yeah, maybe making bug effective to fairies and you have a lore reason why.
Bugs are big and predate fairies and they are usually, poisonus or venomous, there, bug is now effective to fairies.
And to buff ice, make it neutral to water or make it resistant against it (as well as make them resist grass, flying and ground)
As for poison types, make them effective against water, because most water types are not literally water but fish, aquatic mammals, reptiles, amphibians and birds and all of them are extremely susceptable against pollution so it also gives a message for future generations about pollution
@@CrabKFP imo ice shouldn’t resist grass. Grass is already resisted by 7 types. Instead, Ice should resist electric, flying, ground and ice.
Thematic Sound-type interactions:
Offense: Strong
- Water (echolocation)
- Psychic (break concentration)
- Fairy (cacophony)
- Electric (radiowaves or something)
Offense: Weak
- Bug (adept bioacoustics)
- Grass (more bioacoustics)
- Rock (deflect sound, ie cave/canyon)
- Fly (wind disrupts soundwaves)
- Fight (battlecry HYAAAAH!!)
Offense: No effect
- Poison (the silent killer. I don't care this is too awesome)
Defense: Strong
- Electric
- Steel (steel/machinery generate noise)
- Ghost (prayers/chants)
Defense: Weak
- Bug
- Fly
- Rock
Bonus: Ability
- Jumpscare: Immune to Dark; when hit by Dark increase speed 1 stage
The main issue I see with this theorycraft is that sound is doing exactly what fairy did back in gen 6. Come in with an attempt to punish some of the more oppressive types while helping the weaker types.
We all saw how that turned out. And this is trying to tackle three types, not just one.
Yea , It Wouldn’t Make Sense .
@@melvondrewhite2674 yeah my other issue is that it makes no logic sense on its offense and defense, it being effective against Water and Steel makes some sense but otherwise it’s nonsensical. Along with that the logic based typing made it easy to memorize every type’s effectiveness
@@lucrativelucas2655 It’s Almost As If Ppl Are Trying To Purposely Complicate & Corrupt The System For Their Own Liking & To Me That’s Kinda Selfish ! The System Is Just Fine The Way It Is And We Don’t Need A New Typing When We Already Have So Many As It Is ..
@@melvondrewhite2674 its not though, no one uses rock types, if they want to use rock moves they slap said moves onto pokemon with much better typings
@@melvondrewhite2674 But uh that's not true. They system isn't fine as is because it's not balanced in the slightest. The goal should be to make all the types equal.
Great video! Personally I would like to see type chart rebalance instead of a new type. Like you covered in your previous videos, I think switching bug to be super effective against fairy is move that can make sense thematically and help balance types. Also I wouldn’t mind seeing a resistance for ice like dragon fairy or water.
Noivern being Dragon sound would be super cool.
You can hit all types that resist Draco meteor with a specs boosted boomburst.
Really hard to switch into!
Also x4 effective against Zacien and faster
If you look up pokemon Xenoverse you'll actually found him Dragon/Sound
As someone who started playing Pokemon before it even had multiple generations; Dragon being OP kind of made sense early on. They were exceedingly rare, and what's more; _it's a friggin dragon_
Anyone who's played any DnD can tell you that being absurdly powerful is kind of their whole deal.
But therein lies the peril of creating 100 new mons every few years. Eventually the rarity is gone and you're just left with an unbalanced typing.
I think adding sound type would leave an empty void in normal.
I really love these videos. Some thoughts: Being able to hit Fairy, Steel and Water for super effective damage seems kinda broken. You could instead make Poison super-effective against Water (which btw fits thematically too). That way you nerf Water, you buff Poison and essentially make Psychic more interactive as well. I'd also make Bug resist and hit for super-effective damage the newly buffed Poison.
I'd actually Buff poison by hitting super effective BUG because it makes sense
In addition give it a corrosive move to nuke steel with
This way bug steel IS FINALLY BALANCED
Create sound to hit water and fairy n ghost for super effective damage
Bug would be compensated for the poison type by giving it IMMUNITY to sound
In addition bugs would be able to 2x hit sound types
At the very least, I think poison shouldn't resist bug, but I 100% agree on the poison > water thing.
as wolfey said in the beginning, he's looking into the sound type into the lens of a competitive player. in vgc and smogon, fairy steel and water are the most powerful types (fairy checks three powerful types while having two weaknesses and those two weaknesses happened to be mediocre at offense/steel has three weakness but ten resistances/water only has two weaknesses and most water types tend to be pretty bulky, example is suicune)
some of them does make thematic sense. for fairy, you being loud disrupts the calm, peaceful nature of fairies, water conducts sound very well, bugs are often loud themselves and some dont even have a hearing system
but for steel? yea wolfe set that arbitralily because steel is indeed a broken defensive type
@@lillyie But his idea of poison and psychic interaction doesn't make a lot of sense either, most of the time Pokemon at least makes sense with the type, if he wanted to balance the 3 types, an idea would be to make grass and bug strong against fairy, Poison and electric strong against steel, (I get Regieleki is broken as it is, so they would likely need to nerf it), and Poison and Ice being strong against Water.
@@ericlohndorf9166 I actually think buffing electric would be really bad because I think that it would create a more op version of fairy
They're really fast already n have massive competitive influence already n regileki zapdos elektross manectric magnezone are abuse cases already especially the first 3
Only grass n ground resists electric
Sound types would be excellent for the game beating down fairy water n steel
Sound should resist electric water n fairy n steel because that type needs a nerf to be honest
Psychic attacks should also be resisted by Sound types
Sound needs to be weak to bug grass rock
Resistance for Sound attacks should be grass rock ice and psychic
Bugs should be immune to Sound types
Sound should be immune to fairy attacks
To address bug steel abuse cases which are a massive problem already, we revert poisons interaction with steel and bug
Poison thematically should hit steel super effective due to its corrosive properties and poison is used to kill bugs
This would make bugs alot more Balanced in general and would eradicate any abuse cases like scizor Durant buzzwald n would Buff bug poison to a viable state and other bug dual types that can use help and would eliminate other abuse cases like mega butterfree mega scizor
I ultimately think this would balance types and create a much more interactive metagame
I've always thought there should've been a Sound Type many years ago and I think would be a perfect time for there to be a new type for Gen 9 or even Gen 10.
Also, what I think Sound should be Super Effective against should be Psychic rather than resisting or being weak as it makes kinda common sense as loud noises can interrupt someone from meditating and using their psychic powers and Sound resists Sound since they can counteract themselves.
Also just noticed that the weaknesses and resistances are flipped in the video.
i didnt think abt that but it makes sense. sound should def be se vs birds instead or rock bc birds cant dodge sound no human has ever thrown a rock at a 100 foot high bird. ground and steel sould resist it, grass should be weak to it but give grass a drag resist and a ice nuetrality bc snow dont hurt grass at all n draggos get their power and shelter from forests n plants
I hate the idea of sound being a type because it's already incorporated into gameplay we already have sound based attacks not only that but we have elemental sound based attacks. Overdrive is an electric sound based attack and bug buzz is a bug type sound based attack either taking away their sound qualification or changing their type would be dumb. Sound already works perfectly how it is it doesn't need to be a type
I would argue that the Psychic interaction should be reversed directly because people will train their minds to ignore the noise or focus on more calming ones. Perhaps your argument would make more sense against fighting types, since they train mainly their bodies so their minds can be easily distracted or impaired by loud or impactful sounds. In either case though I don't think it's necessary for Sound to be good against either of them, and I doubt gamefreak would nerf Psychic or Fighting again.
I would just make the interaction on-existent.
Gimme one reason why Psychic should have another weakness. The Psychic typing can hardly be viable as a defensive type it has a weakness to a good and the WORST type. It resists one thing other than itself (fighting). it can only do se damage to 2 types (fighting and poison)
Just made a new type that counters all the best types in the entire game and called it balanced ☠️
I feel like the sound type does make thematic sense, and your competitive know how is sound(haha) and since there are already mechanics in place around sound that we can draw from it doesnt seem unlikely. However I find that 2 major issues occur, that stem from what makes it seem viable.
1. Old pokemon typing. since a grand majority of pokemon that already exist and have a focus on sound based moves are already dual type pokemon. while you could argue that pokemon such as melloetta and exploud changing from normal to sound, makes sense, what about primarina, and toxtricity? both have unique typings not shared with any other pokemon as of yet, but are still very sound based in their signature moves and abilities. Its hard to say what a good course of action would be
2. the typing of sound based moves that already exist. Bug buzz is the strongest special bug move for the majority of bug pokemon, but it is a sound based move, and it has been since its introduction. So, if we have a difference between sound based moves and the sound type, where is the line drawn? and going back to normal moves, the grand majority of special normal moves are sound based, and admittedly there arent many special normal types or pokemon who run these normal moves to begin with, it makes the strongest special options for normal types: hyper beam, swift, tri attack, and razor wind. with those last two being pretty hard to get on pokemon. also a more niche purpose, but for abilities that change normal moves typings would have to be drastically altered too
One thing that I like about sound moves now is that they exist tangentially to the type chart. I think Gamefreak should make adjustments to the type chart, but I also would be interested to see how they can add a new layer to battles. I’m thinking how weather and fields became relevant, but do it more like how sound is now. Like, more moves or abilities that interact with sound moves, but also provide more types access to them. I’m thinking like how the elemental punches interact with abilities that care about punching so a Pokémon can care about the secondary attribute while not being type locked. More interactions should open up more lines of play. The punching moves, “bullet” moves, and things that interact with berries all are examples of avenues of game design that can be used more without upsetting the type chart.
Good point, this would actually refine the games in a more significant manner than yet another type.
I think _some_ adjustments to the type chart are inevitable if they aim towards more balanced types.
I'm not opposed to the idea of sound however. Though I am afraid it could still turn into Fairy 2.0, despite the attempt of just making it B-Tier.
Terrains definitely feel underutilized. "Dance moves" are barely even a thing. I think "beam moves" have yet to be connected, despite their preponderance.
Have things that interact with Natures in ways that make choosing them less shallow.
Body Shape doesn't really do anything at all. Perhaps add mechanics to common species - particularly ones that already have dedicated moves, such as butterflies, snakes, and dogs.
These stats more fit something different than sound. it sorta reminded me of nuclear type from the fan game Pokemon: Uranium. I think sound is best as a modifier rather than it's own type.
I do remember Pokemon Uranium, maybe you could do a video on that sometime. Thank you for reading my comment.
Heres a list of a few strengths and weaknesses that i think sound could have and also why they would be strong/weak against sound (this is just a few suggestions)(also im doing this based off of common sense, not balance)
Sound's Weaknesses:
1. Poison - Poisoning a person would probably make their voice bad (this type would not resist sound)
2. Rock - Throwing a rock at someone's throat would ruin their voice (this type would not resist sound)
3. Flying - Wind blows sound away and can make conversation difficult (this type would resist sound)
Sound's Strengths:
1. Steel - Solids, especially dense solids like steel, conduct sound/energy very well (this is also a possible argument for electric being strong against steel, but thats not the point) (sound would resist this type)
2. Water - Water also conducts sound very well, being a liquid (sound would resist this type)
3. Psychic - Sound can disturb focus (sound would not resist this type)
Types that Resist Sound:
1. Bug - Being such noisy creatures, they would be accustomed to lots of sound
2. Grass - Being a good insulator of sound would make sound not very effective against grass
3. Ground - Same thing as grass
Types that Sound Resists:
1. Fairy - Lets be honest what can a little pixie boi do to your voice (also for balance bc idk what else to put here)
2. Fighting - A person cannot punch energy
Anyway thats my list if u wanna reply to it and add anything or change anything then thats fine. I honestly tried my best to make something that made logical sense but also fit balance-wise. There were some strengths/weaknesses/resistances that i thought of but that would either make sound broken or terrible. I sincerely tried my best on this list and i hope u like it!
Something that I think would be really cool to see is a competitive evaluation of pokemon from fan-made games. Seeing you do an exhaustive breakdown of Uranium pokemon and the Nuclear type would be incredible.
I’m pretty sure looking at a type that weak to everything and only resists itself would give him an aneurysm 😆 /j
Yeah, as you alluded too before a lot of these changes just seem forced for competitive balance. Interactions with Flying, Steel, and Water make some sense, but Ice, Rock, and Bug not so much.
Ideally we'd hope that Gamefreak makes changes similar to your other videos like swapping Bug's interaction with fairy types & buffing Ice defensively. That way some of these changes wouldn't feel as necessary.
In any case, I think the main types Sound should have winning interactions with are Steel, Ground, Water, and Flying. Since sound passes/carries through all of these IRL. Conversely Psychic & Poison would resist/be strong against sound,because poison itself travels through things (and because certain types of music or sound are described as poison to your mind/ears) & Psychic as in you train your mind to drown out the noise. I'd be inclined to think both Sound & Electric could resist each other as well, or maybe other way around with both being super effective since the two are often linked.
EDIT:
Super effective: Steel, Water, Ground, Flying, Electric
Not Very effective: Poison, Psychic
Weakness: Poison, Electric, Psychic
Resistance: Flying, (Maybe fairy?)
Fairy I think could still be resisted by sound on the grounds that fairy's are usually lightweights & soft spoken. Other than that I think this is far more likely what gamefreak would end up making, not that it's better but that it's more realistic. This would make it a very strong offensive type, but pretty unassuming defensively (unless we include the fairy resistance, which I hope would happen if it's added). That concludes my own thoughts & opinions. Thanks for the wideo Wolfe.
A reason I think you could give for Ice having an edge over Sound is that I think (idk I don't live in snowy regions) that snow drowns out sound pretty well. Also, Blizzards typically make it hard to hear stuff. And since snow is usually associated with the Ice type, it wouldn't be too farfetched to make Ice resist Sound. Especially since Ice REALLY needs that resistance.
Considering the speed of electric type pokemon I do worry that electric would overall benefit greatly from this, but yeah thematically this is much better. As mentioned above an ice type interaction could probably pass in and I think it might be fair to let it hit fairy's hard because fairies and nature dislike being disturbed and noise pollution.
@@racoonmaster5713 It's certainly arguable, but at the same time I feel it can easily be described in the opposite direction. Sound can shatter ice just as well as glass, or cause an avalanche. In that regard you could make stretch arguments for fire, grass, bug, rock and ghost to have interactions as well. All are possible, and it's not like gamefreak hasn't made those stretches for justifying matchups before, but it's just not as likely imo.
@@malmasterson3890 I see, I hadn't thought of it that way. What you say makes a lot of sense. I still think that it would be better for Ice to have an edge over Sound, even if just because Ice type just straight up sucks currently, and desperately needs any defensive help it can get. But yeah, if you analyse it the way you put it, Sound does have an edge over Ice.
@@craigyeah1052 Balance wise, I would hope making sound strong against electric would be good for pokemon that have sound based coverage moves. Ground was taking a hit, and seeing as that's the only weakness electric has I wanted to attempt to offset it.
I feel like the Ice interaction could go either way is the thing, so I just left it off because I feel you could just as easily make it argument for sound being strong against it, and by extension have interactions with Fire,Grass,Rock, and Ghost that would just overcomplicate things.
Yeah, I was kinda thinking the same thing, but I don't want Sound to Replace Fairy as the strongest type. I'd much rather reverse the bug interaction to offset Fairy's power that way we're buffing a type we know needs the help. I'm be okay with it resisting Fairy though, because Fairy would still be just way too strong offensively.
After seeing MitchPitch's video on Sound types, and this one, I'm 100% behind Sound types being a thing
The beauty of given it super effective damage against steel fits thematically as well as steel can be brought down by the right frequency in real life. Love it.
Imagine a physical sound move where you hit a drum or other percussion instrument that host special defense like a reverse psy shock/ psy strike/ secret sword
That’s a great idea
drum beating
In my opinion, there is just a little bit too many/just enough types. Plus, Sound type would have to replace a LOT of moves and make some physical. I think nerfs is a better idea (as much as Fairy is my favourite type)
Imo I would’ve prefered if Ground/Rock and Grass/Bug were fused as I think there are too many similarities and unnecessarily complicates the type chart + Bug is just an objectively bad typing.
@@EchotheLombax you could probably get away with fusing ground and rock but fusing grass and bug doesn’t really make sense IMO
@@EchotheLombax Fusion of Bug + Grass would make no sense.
Fusing Ground + Rock does tho, Ground is basically the Rock type but better.
Thank you for all the effort you and your friends put into VGC guide. Awesome tool to make competitive Pokemon more approachable. Massive respect to you guys for that.
As for the sound type, I tend to generally dislike fan types, or adding types in general. A lot of moves with the sound property are special normal moves, so giving them to sound reduces special normal stab. I'm much more down for adjusting the existing, weaker types to counter the stronger ones.
Seriously why is bug resisted by so many types????
Here's an interesting idea: What if Mega Evolutions had move tutors?
What if Mega Evolutions had moves only they could learn, while the base Pokémon could only learn moves the Mega Evolution couldn't?
For example: Mega Mawile can't learn Shadow Punch, vanilla Mawile can.
Of course, it would need to be looked at carefully, since the last thing we need is Mega Ampharos with Tail Glow. I just think Mega Evolutions being trained differently sounds neat.
move on boomer. move on to the spinoffs
Great vid wolfe. I agree with almost everything however adding this type to singles would be a bit risky because adding another type thats weak to rock makes stealth rocks better and makes it so even more pokemon have to wear heavy duty boots. I think making psychic terrain stronger is also a bit scary however there has to be 1 good type that hits sound super effectivley so it makes sense. I think this would be extremely hard to switch into in singles and instead of having rock resist it maybe make it so poison resists it or another type with not to many weakness's. I agree that max airstream is a huge problem however I don't think we will have to worry about it in gen 9, however another flying resist could be nice.
It would be cool to see a new type designed with both competitive play and theming in mind, but I recognize that that’s a much more difficult task.
This is something I’ve thought about for years, so I certainly agree with this. Maybe giving it a resistance to electric or ground type would be cool too
I think it'd be fun if Sound was weak to Ice, because of that old myth about sound causing avalanches. Same goes for rock
I feel like Wolfey (and GF, if they want to introduce a new type for balance) should do the type chart first and then decide a type that fits - looking at the type chart you've made, something like a Decay type might work?
Almost perfect fit!
Even fits with the revealed "time" motif of S&V.
As someone with little to no competitive experience, thematically, I have some ideas on how Sound type could work. I'd suggest Sound moves being super effective against Water, Steel, Psychic, and Fighting types - Water and Steel because of the fact that sound travels faster through bodies of water and metal such as in musical instruments, and Psychic and Fighting because loud noises could cause those types that are thematically centered around focus to LOSE said focus. I'm not entirely adamant about Fighting, however, and I think it could be swapped out for Fairy with the justification that when I think "fairy," I usually think quiet meadow or forest - something that would also be disturbed by loud noises. I think Rock, Ground, and Grass should resist Sound, because sound in real life does not travel well through stone, soil, or plant matter (think screaming into a pillow). I also think Electric should be immune to Sound, as in real life, electrical currents are not affected by sound waves, and sound waves can actually be converted INTO electrical energy through electromagnetic induction.
As for defense, I believe that Sound should take double damage from Ground, Rock, and Grass, again because of their insulating properties, reduced damage from Water and Steel because of their conductive properties, and no damage from Electric, because to my knowledge electrical currents also have no effect on sound waves in real life.
Forgive me if this sounds completely ridiculous, as I have very limited competitive balancing knowledge. I do think that the effectiveness described above could be an effective check to defensively powerful Water and Steel types, as well as slightly buffing Electric (which in my opinion is marginally defensively underpowered) and dual-type Ground and Rock types, which are notoriously quad-weak to two very common offensive types - Water and Grass.
I don't think psychic deserved getting nerfed again
Sound waves are pressure waves not EMR.....
@@user-pd2zb6jx4w and fighting already had enough with fairies another nerf sound worse
Amazing job as usual, I really love the quality and jokes that your theory videos have!
Also 6:48 Play Rough's drawback is that it misses 50% of the time
If it's not 100% accurate, it's 50% accurate
Competitive community. The fairyhas freed us
Fairy type: Oh I wouldn't say free, more like under new management
I love the concept of there being a sound type although I can’t say I agree too much with the poison and steel type interactions. It seems like a lot of the work in this video was based around balancing the type chart which personally I’d watch a video solely on how you would balance the chart as a whole. Still, thanks for the great video. Excellent quality content as always!
Yeah it really should have been balance first, theme later.
There's a pretty simple fix to fairy that doesn't require a new type.
Step 1: Convert Dragon Immunity to Dragon Resistance.
Step 2: remove bug resistance
I feel like the whole idea of adding types to fix other types dominance mirrors the effect of trying to fix an invasive species problem by introducing one of those species natural predators to the ecosystem to take care of it. It pretty much always goes bad in unexpected ways and causes an even bigger problem
I think this is a super interesting way of looking at this. Though, I think it might have made a little more sense to start with the “niche” of the type with what types are too weak and what types are too strong, and come up with what sort of type would make sense in that role. That way, you can weigh lore relevance and competitive balance equally and make something even more unique!
For another thing: you should have made sound-based moves that already had non-Normal typings into dual typed moves like Hawlucha’s Flying Press- it would have preserved the existing usage of these moves while also giving Sound Types an interesting gimmick of having a wide array of dual-typed moves!