Greatest what? He had a chance, the FBI said they'd drop his back taxes and get the NJ mobsters to forgive his $500,000 debt to them, but Rose said no, he was too big. Giamatti dropped the hammer on him, he went to prison for tax evasion and was banned forever from MLB. Worse than that, to pay his debt to the Mob he financed cocaine deals. Here is the Commissioner's report, long read. www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/ Everybody bent over backwards to save the face of baseball, he refused. Do you you support that?
Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.” -sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
The issue with that is the fact that literally the year after he stopped managing, his team won the World Series in a sweep so it looks even worse because people felt that he was betting against his team for more money. Personally I don’t think that but I do understand where it’s coming from
You can bet on yourself and still hurt your team. For instance, pitching matchups and bullpen management. You go all out on the games that you've bet on yourself and then you leave your team depleted for the rest of the series
Daniel McGarel: The problem with that, in respect to Rose, is that he most likely did both. Giamatti felt he had enough to make the case, and ended the Dowd investigation. But Dowd felt pretty sure that Rose bet against the Reds, and that if he was allowed to continue, he would have shown that.
@@pneulancer *Rose* is a douchebag AND a future HOF member. He won't be the first. That dis-honor has to go to a member of the first HOF class, *Ty Cobb.*
@ Not a HOF member by any shot. If you want to see what gambling does, then look no further than Shoeless Joe Jackson, who it was proven DID NOT bet on baseball, but is banned from the hall. His crime was knowing it was happening and not speaking out about it. Bench is right. Pete is a dumbshit who had a chance to "manup" to what he did, but chose the stupid way to go, following his moron lawyer's advice. If Gamblin' Pete gets in Joe Jackson goes in first, since at least he didn't do what Gamblin" Pete ADMITTED to doing.
@Mr.Brenman21 Obviously it isn't just my opinion. Your argument is that if someone else gets away with cheating then MLB and the HOF should let every cheater from then forward off the hook as well. Inconsistency in the application of the law has been part of human history from the beginning. The solution is not to throw out all enforcement, but to strive to do better. But inconsistency aside, Bonds, Sosa, McGuire et al, cheated. No one made them do it. How are they victims? How about the pitchers who's stats were made artificially worse by facing them? How about Hank Aaron's record being basically stolen? How about other clean hitters who didn't get to compete on a level playing field?
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
Rush Ron The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
Fans gambling on games harmless. Players and managers betting on games severely undermines the integrity of the sport. Pete Rose betting while he was both
@@quickman1047 Ahhh...integrity. MLB gave the ticket and merch money back from the fake HR king era that saved baseball...right? I mean, that was integrity that guys who were gaining 50 lbs in a couple years and hitting any pitch out of the park weren't being noticed. MLB knows exactly what is going on. As long as the billions keep flowing to the owners they don't care. But some will defend the hypocrite owners and their lawyers over the players that make the game even worth watching.
When Pete showed up in Philly last year and told a TV audience in Philly that he knew John Kruk when he had two balls, that kinda sealed the deal for Pete not getting into the Hall.
lol what a savage... certainly in poor taste, but nonetheless irrelevant to his career as a player... low-hanging fruit, but if someone like kanye west can still be allowed to live among us, much less still have a career (rather than strapped to a UN rocket and launched directly into the sun for the good of mankind)... then there's certainly no reason Pete Rose can't be in the hall of fame...
I dont know how betting on yourself to win is worse than literally rigging the game into your favor. Not to mention all the cheaters, criminals, and steroid users in the hall of fame. But no, being confident enough to bet on your own team to win is somehow worse. The MLB is so ass backwards.
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball. If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are. Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
Does it really matter anymore if he's in the HoF or not? Not being in is more of a boom for him than if he was. Things have been so watered down lately with some of the recent inductees (good players, not great, who just got in) that being in the HoF is devalued.
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
My dad, god rest his soul, played minor leagues for a couple years, believed that he shouldnt be in the hall of fame just like johnny bench! Always said he cheated and then would never admit it! I loved him as a ball player and looked up to him as a kid growing up playing baseball. I think he should be in on his accomplishments on the field, but not as a manager!! My dad and i would have conversations about it and looked at it differently but after hearing johnny bench describe his thoughts on it and him playing on the same team and knowing more than we do, i have to side with my dad now!! I guess my old school dad was right!!
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close. On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
Then take out Cobb, Ruth, and everyone that played before 1950 95% of all players where drunks. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker did get banned from baseball in 1926 for gambling but went to Commissioner Landis that he would tell the reporter who else gamble's on baseball and his ban was lifted
Wait: are you saying drinking is against the rules of eligibility of baseball? Drinking is cheating? Strange. First time I ever heard that theory. As for Cobb and Speaker gambling, Rule 21 was put in place in 1927. The 'death penalty' for gambling did not exist in 1919 (when Cobb and Speaker bet on their team, in a series that they heard the other team was throwing). When Jackson and company were banned, it was NOT because of gambling. It was due to what was believed to be conspiring with gambling elements to throw the series. In other words, your whatabout... has no merit here. Rose knowingly and repeatedly violated a rule that is on the wall in every single clubhouse in the majors. He was a degenerate gambler and degenerate person, and is paying the price for breaking the rules.
@@bauerj3398 what rose did was not as bad as what the white Sox did when the rigged the World Series but yet they are in the mlb is a joke at this point
@@The_king567 What? The White Sox are not in the HOF. Joe Jackson is a top 20 player all time, certainly a better player than Rose, and he is not in. This despite the fact that that he never attended the meetings to fix the Series, is disputed to have ever particpated in the fix other than accepting $5000, and was the best player in the Series. As for Rose, he is just a scumbag whose lying never stopped. Keeps adjusting his story when it becomes apparent nobody believes him. He willfully and repeatedly broke rule with the express punishment of a lifetime ban, and people feel bad for him because he is banned? Eff him.
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
He bet on games including on the Reds while he was even a Manager for the Reds, come on folks, he stays out of the Cooperstown. Sure he was was an all-time great, would have loved him on my team, most would agree, just not in the Hall of Fame. I can't believe after 33 years we are still debating this, it is over - this is about the integrity of the game. Besides all this, I wish health and happiness, he is 81, God Bless him.
Integrity? Tell me the player or manager who earns a salary so meager that he has to gamble and fix games? No one needs to protect the integrity of baseball due to gambling violations. Not now days. This is insider grudge-politics, and it stinks.
Integrity of the game? LoL. Do you have any idea how many games were called because of rain and made official? Home teams won 70% of those in the 50's and 60's? How bout that integrity?
Absolutely not. He knowingly and willingly violated the integrity of the sport as a player/manager and then bald faced lied in saying he didn’t for 16 years. He was also sexually deviant and involved in drug trafficking while still managing the reds.
@@Amick44 Than what is wrong with Bench answering the question given to him about Rose? Bench is viewd by most as the greatest MLB Catcher to ever play the game. He was a teamate of Rose and knows the man!
Whose a bigger disgrace to the game? The guy who made bets on games he was actively involved in and lied about it, or the stupid defenders of that kind of behavior?
1. Yes Pete Rose does deserve to be in the Hall of Fame as his stats and accomplishments more than justify that. 2. The HOF simply needs to note his suspension for betting on games as part of his HOF plaque. 3. Even players with criminal records belong in the Hall if their stats warrant it, because even great players have stories beyond baseball that also need to be told, not hidden. 4. Fans of the sport and the HOF itself suffers more than Rose by not seeing his bust, his legacy and history in the Hall. 5. The Hall now lacks credibility without some of it's most "Famous" players in it, and has been reduced to becoming "The Hall of the Self-Righteous Voter".
Actually it could, and very likely would, influence the outcome of games. As just one example, let's say a player places a bet on a game (not one of his team's games). And let's say he's good friends with the pitcher on one of those teams. Let's say he bets $25K that his friend's team will lose that game. What's to stop him from calling his friend and telling him to groove some fastballs right down the middle of the plate to the other team's best hitters? Or what's to stop that pitcher from throwing a wild pitch with the bases loaded so that the other team wins? Or do a hundred other things to throw a game, with the understanding that he and his bettor friend will split the winnings? Or let's say that player gambles on his own team and places large bets that his team will lose. He now has an incentive to throw the game. Make an error at a critical point in the game, or strike out on purpose, or fall down while running the base paths and get thrown out, or whatever. Gambling on one's sport cannot be tolerated by a league. Too many players are unethical. Look at all the cheaters MLB has had, from Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, Palmerio, Clemens and others (steroids), to throwing doctored pitches (Niekro, Sutton, Perry, et al.). And God only knows how many dozens or hundreds more that have cheated and never gotten caught. And as you pointed out, the Astros.
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat. Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
Bench rather have all these baseball players that used Steroids in the hall of fame then Rose be in for gambling.yes i know what rose did but still he deserves the hall of fame
@@bauerj3398 plus the hipocricy in baseball is hilarious, loom at the astros, they got caught cheating n kept their trophy, and i can assure you 1 or 2 of those players will get in..
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard a man say. If he ends up in the Hall of Fame he gets there because of his accomplishments on the diamond not for what he did off the field. We all know Hall of Famers who have led unpleasant lives off the field and yet they got or kept their inductions.
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
Love Jonny Bench, but to say "if you have to tell Your Kids that there are No Rules in Baseball"; PLEASE! HOW ABOUT STERIODS, ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS (PITCHERS ESPECIALLY) AND TEAMS and Have CHEATED "UNDER MLS "RULES". WHAT A JOKE!
That is a fact Michael. He is in the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame as well. That is a fact. This back and forth BS is so played out. The facts are what matter. Everything else is just personal feelings, opinions and beliefs.
Charlie hustle was my favorite player as a kid...and in my opinion a top 5 player EVER...the hall of fame is a joke without pete in it...bench always had sour grapes toward pete bottom line because pete was just better!!
So every HOF pitcher who ever threw a spitball or scuffed a ball during their career should be removed from the HOF. Right? After all, cheating is cheating, and rules are rules, right? I can name dozens of HOF players who cheated during their career. And the HOF committee knew they were cheaters when they voted them in. Look at Johnny Bench’s character: He urged his then-wife Vickie Chesser to accept $25,000 to pose nude in HUSTLER magazine. Such a Hall of Fame husband. Such a great representative for baseball. Such a role model for kids.
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
Pete Rose’s incredible accomplishments were completely independent of his personal problems, he always played at 110%. I think he deserves the Hall of Fame, Lord knows we have a lot of inducted members that have worse issues that Pete’s.
If you can point out a player in the Hall who willfully, repeatedly broke the one rule that specifically calls for a lifetime ban, then you might have an argument.
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
It wasn’t breaking the rules that sealed Pete’s fate, it was lying about it so self righteously for well over decade and then confessing it to get money on a tell all book. He’s a lousy guy.
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
hiram hacklesworth go to baseball-refernence.com Black Ink monitor Gray Ink monitor HOF JAWS all of them reach the conclusions I stated regarding Rose = yes & Baines = no
I love Pete, Bench is one of the best hitting catchers of the 70’s. Pete is the greatest hitter ever to play the game and if Pete didn’t come to Philly we never would have won it all in 1980. Pete Rose is on a way higher level than Bench....
Being a hardcore Dodger fan in the 70's, I hated Rose & the Reds, but to keep a guy/rose that had more hits, than anyone that has ever played the game, is just stupid, the HOF is for what the players did On the field, not off. btw the 1919 white soxs players took money to Lose, aka to take a dive like in boxing.
And none of them are in. No proof that Shoeless Joe Jackson threw any games and he is not in either. His lying and lack of contrition are big reasons he is not in
His banned from MLB. MLB doesn't have an official relationship with the HOF. It's a separate entity. Being banned from MLB shouldn't ban anyone from the HOF
Funny story...my family bumped into Johnny Bench when I was coming out of a surgery. I was loaded up on pain meds but I knew I recognized him. I just couldn't figure out how. I asked my wife to ask him and she hesitantly asked him if he knew me. He graciously admitted who he was. We have two photos he let us take as a group with him. Such a class act.
I hated the Cincinnati Reds but I always loved Johnny Bench. Probably the greatest catcher of all-time, a total winner and class act. And he still looks great.
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
Neither should Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Joe Dimaggio and a wide variety of others with connections to people who were underworld figures. Johnny, the integrity of the game dictates that anyone who had even the most trifling character flaw or questionable connection should be removed from the Hall for it. By the time we are done, there may be 7 players left, and not even you would survive. Roberto Clemente would not even survive the purge, and neither would Thurmon Munson. Griffey Jr, Ichiro (when he gets in), Edgar Martinez, and a handful of other goody two shoes that don't include you, oddly, would remain. Are you really sure you want to go there? Because I could easily come up with character flaws or connections that would eliminate you if I really wanted to try. Where do you stop? Slippery slope, dude. Think on that, Johnny Bench.
I love how you wrote this like Johnny Bench would actually read it. Funnier is even if he did read it you thinking he gives a shit what you say. Thanks for the chuckle man. That being said, Rose should be in the HOF and it is just an ego thing keeping him out. As soon as he dies I bet they vote him in via committee or whatever
@@Dime-bz6hc To be honest, I couldn't care less whether Johnny Boy reads what I wrote or not, and if he did I don't give one tinker's damn what he thinks of my opinion of his opinion. I appreciate that we both feel the same about the inclusion of Rose. My biggest issue is that they laid down certain criteria for his possible induction, or at least inclusion on the ballot. He may have come late to the party, but he did meet all those requirements in the intervening years. And the banning of Joe Jackson is even more ludicrous. That was nothing more than a power play by Landis, an attempt to force his will on everyone else. Jackson, if you look at his actual numbers for the series, did nothing wrong to throw the series. The only homerun hit, zero errors, three outfield assists, and absolutely no evidence of any tainted play he was involved in. But the most hated man to ever play the game, Ty Cobb, is still in. That is a sad thing, really. As for the "ego thing", it isn't his ego that is the problem. It is the ego of pissant power players like the Johnster that are at play here. Rose has already made his admissions and paid his penance. And as to whether he will get in when he dies, Joe Jackson is long dead, and he isn't in yet.
Yes Pete Rose should of come clean years ago.Even convicted felon’s and murder’s are given second chance.All time hits leader a record that will probably never be broken put the man in the HOF!!!!
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
When Bench played for the Red’s I was a fan and in fact a fan of all the Reds. I KNOW for a fact that the majority of Red’s players would vote for Pete. The truth is that Bench is jealous of Pete and has been for years. Bench KNOWS damn well Rose did not bet on ball games during his playing years and that IS the difference but Bench refuses to acknowledge. During his playing years Rose was clean and trust me THEY DUG DEEP IN THEIR SEARCH to prove differently but found nada. Based on the fact Rose broke records during his playing years should be more than enough to recognize Rose in Baseball HOF and Mention that he is banned from Base Ball as a manager.
I really don’t like players like Bench that suck up the company line. Pete Rose absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. There’s so many unscrupulous characters that ended up in jail, beat their wives… That are sitting in the Hall of Fame.
Pete Rose is a Hall of Fame player and deserves to be in. Considering some of the supposed “clean players” that are in the hall now , Pete Rose is a no-brainer! If you think about it, it almost seems silly and petty to keep a store like rose out of the Hall of Fame.
Sure he broke the rules.. But you can't keep the greatest Hitter in the history of the game out because he broke some rules... The punishment doesn't fit the crime! I've never heard he bet against his team to lose, that would be a crime to fit the punishment...
Let's just say the Reds had a 3 game series over the weekend. Pete knows the rotation coming into the weekend, so he feels he has a great chance the Reds will win Saturday. So...first he doesn't bet Friday's game, or maybe he puts on a small wager just because he loves action. On Friday, in a close game, he decides not to use a particular reliever or 2 because he wants them fresh in case they are needed for Saturday's game. On Saturday, he loads up on the Reds for his bet. After a few times doing this, the bookies start catching on to the betting pattern, and thus they now have important information for the betting world. I hope this helps explain why betting on these games is horrible for any sport when you have control of the game as a manager or as a player. The punishment certainly fits the crime in this case, and it was written in every clubhouse. It's a shame he spent so many waking hours studying what to bet on instead of trying to manage that team to a World Series. The team was in place to win multiple championships, so at least when he was finally gone, they had a manager purely focused on winning and amazingly they went wire to wire without him betting from his office or the dugout 5 minutes before game time.
He called into question the integrity of the game. Unlike drug use or alcoholism, gambling on the game affects the game itself. It doesn’t just bring shame on one person. If players/managers bet on games, the very outcome of games and playoffs are in doubt. Baseball becomes like professional wrestling - just a scripted soap opera. I spent 37 years in baseball as a ML scout and I am firmly in the “No” category for Rose’s HOF eligibility.
Doesn’t really matter if they hang a plaque on a wall somewhere for Rose, his name will live on forever as one of the greatest of all time.
Greatest what? He had a chance, the FBI said they'd drop his back taxes and get the NJ mobsters to forgive his $500,000 debt to them, but Rose said no, he was too big. Giamatti dropped the hammer on him, he went to prison for tax evasion and was banned forever from MLB. Worse than that, to pay his debt to the Mob he financed cocaine deals. Here is the Commissioner's report, long read.
www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2015/03/21/rose-investigator-pete-belong-game/25112355/
Everybody bent over backwards to save the face of baseball, he refused. Do you you support that?
Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
@@tinyman520 O.J. Simpson was a great football player too but don't think anyone is going to be putting up a plaque for him and he was acquitted.
Yup, people should continue to talk about him.
Especially to the next generation
I agree!
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
Agreed...but I also think Rose should be in...I just don't understand how mistakes for part of their career defines their entire career.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.”
-sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
Stats aren't everything.
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
If he was a wife beater he'd be in !!
He bet on winning. Who cares, bench is a pussy.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
Oh how wrong you are!@@kidzbop38isstraightfire92
Pete Rose has such a legacy that it wouldn’t matter if he were inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff Kareem never broke a rule that states if you break it you will be banned for life. Pete Rose did.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
Bingo. You just nailed it! 👍
Sometimes people are just too stubborn for their own good.
He DID have a path to the HOF and he stubbornly refused it.
And that's why Bonds won't be in either. No admitting he did wrong, no contrition.
The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
💯👍🏻
Unquestionably PETE ROSE deserves to be in the HOF. He was one of the best in history - this is just a fact. PUT HIM IN!!!
He bet on the games he was managing.....and he never owned up to it...so no, he doesn't deserve the Hall...you serious?
@@phillipbelk3528 I don't care. He PLAYED at a level of greatest not achieved by virtually all who ever played.
Obviously, none of you know why Pete isn't in baseball or the hall of fame
@@hughkerins3151 Snobs.
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
That picture of him holding SEVEN baseballs in ONE hand is potentially the most riveting baseball photos of all time in my opinion.
Bench was the greatest catcher I have ever seen .
After Pete Rose, the greatest.
Pete's not a catcher, I realize..
I am A Dodger fan and watching Pete Rose play baseball at Dodger Stadium in the 70s & 80s was awesome. Charlie Hustle!!!
Betting for yourself is a lot different than betting against yourself in my opinion
The issue with that is the fact that literally the year after he stopped managing, his team won the World Series in a sweep so it looks even worse because people felt that he was betting against his team for more money. Personally I don’t think that but I do understand where it’s coming from
It might be, but that's not an exception to the MLB betting rules. AND HE BROKE THOSE RULES. Then he lied for years and years and years.
You can bet on yourself and still hurt your team. For instance, pitching matchups and bullpen management. You go all out on the games that you've bet on yourself and then you leave your team depleted for the rest of the series
@@mycartel39 yep. Great example of how problematic it is
Daniel McGarel: The problem with that, in respect to Rose, is that he most likely did both. Giamatti felt he had enough to make the case, and ended the Dowd investigation. But Dowd felt pretty sure that Rose bet against the Reds, and that if he was allowed to continue, he would have shown that.
You'd never know he was banned if you're familiar with vintage baseball card prices.
(Which I have several PR cards)
At this point, not being in the HOF is probably going to make Rose’s legacy greater.
Nope. He's still a douchebag.
@@pneulancer *Rose* is a douchebag AND a future HOF member. He won't be the first. That dis-honor has to go to a member of the first HOF class, *Ty Cobb.*
@ Not a HOF member by any shot. If you want to see what gambling does, then look no further than Shoeless Joe Jackson, who it was proven DID NOT bet on baseball, but is banned from the hall. His crime was knowing it was happening and not speaking out about it. Bench is right. Pete is a dumbshit who had a chance to "manup" to what he did, but chose the stupid way to go, following his moron lawyer's advice. If Gamblin' Pete gets in Joe Jackson goes in first, since at least he didn't do what Gamblin" Pete ADMITTED to doing.
@Mr.Brenman21 Nope. Just another in a long list of dishonest, egotist who think rules dont apply to them.
@Mr.Brenman21 Obviously it isn't just my opinion. Your argument is that if someone else gets away with cheating then MLB and the HOF should let every cheater from then forward off the hook as well.
Inconsistency in the application of the law has been part of human history from the beginning. The solution is not to throw out all enforcement, but to strive to do better.
But inconsistency aside, Bonds, Sosa, McGuire et al, cheated. No one made them do it. How are they victims? How about the pitchers who's stats were made artificially worse by facing them? How about Hank Aaron's record being basically stolen? How about other clean hitters who didn't get to compete on a level playing field?
Pete belongs in the Hall as a player.
I also thought that. But the thing is he also gambled when he was a player.
I agree. I never liked JB and like him less after this. THEY WERE All gambling on games, nothing new
@@robertdaniels6510
Maybe so. But we must be light in the darkness as Jesus said. Just because “all” are doing it doesn’t mean I need to follow them.
Pete agreed to the terms..
@@istvandejesus Did he bet against his team as a player?
Absolutely the greatest catcher in my lifetime, nobody else comes close.
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
Bench needs to get over it.
@@RedroomStudios Agreed
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
He is in the Gambling Hall of Fame though. @@RedroomStudios
Few people can truly understand just how bad any addiction can cloud your judgement
So true. Just a few months ago my wife got Addicted to casino gambling and I'll tell you we are paying dearly for now
Rush Ron
The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@chrisj197438 thanks for the advice!
If that’s the case then A-Rod.. Barry Bonds.. Several more are In the hall they cheated also so how’s that?
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
Which is where he should be. In yours.
He was far from the greatest ballplayer among those you listed.
Probably one of the best all around players in the last 50 years has to be Rickey henderson. Gets no credit
Pete wasn't even the best player on his team much less in his own era.
ARoberto Clemente was a much better player than Rose.
“Wanna bet I’ll get in?” - Pete Rose
LOL
@@rickb.9067 You’re right about that!!!!
Lol
Rose is already in. All time hits record.
He will get in but sad part is it will be when he passes away!!sucks cuz he probably the best hitter of all time
It's fine that MLB takes money from draft kings and fanduel though. It's time to let Pete Rose in the Hall of Fame.
Preach it.
Fans gambling on games harmless. Players and managers betting on games severely undermines the integrity of the sport. Pete Rose betting while he was both
@@quickman1047 Ahhh...integrity. MLB gave the ticket and merch money back from the fake HR king era that saved baseball...right? I mean, that was integrity that guys who were gaining 50 lbs in a couple years and hitting any pitch out of the park weren't being noticed. MLB knows exactly what is going on. As long as the billions keep flowing to the owners they don't care. But some will defend the hypocrite owners and their lawyers over the players that make the game even worth watching.
The bottom line is, the greatest hitter in baseball should be in the hall of fame.
When Pete showed up in Philly last year and told a TV audience in Philly that he knew John Kruk when he had two balls, that kinda sealed the deal for Pete not getting into the Hall.
lol what a savage... certainly in poor taste, but nonetheless irrelevant to his career as a player...
low-hanging fruit, but if someone like kanye west can still be allowed to live among us, much less still have a career (rather than strapped to a UN rocket and launched directly into the sun for the good of mankind)... then there's certainly no reason Pete Rose can't be in the hall of fame...
Don't really matter if he's not in the hall . His 4000+ hits are legendary..And will never be broken .
Hall of Fame or not, Pete Rose, in my opinion, was the best contact hitter ever.
He was of his time. You can make a strong argument for Rod Carew, but Pete hit for more power, extra base hits.
@@Amick44 and more hits
@@Amick44 Tony Gwynn.
@@mikesalyers4914 i speaking of his era.
Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose, but I get your point…he’s a hall of famer!
Be curious to she what ol' Johnny thinks of the Astros
Be more curious to hear Leo Durocher's opinion.
He's probably disgusted. Disgusted at anything that brings shame onto the game. Johnny Bench is old school in many ways.
Two completely unrelated offenses but I imagine he would have a problem with the Astros as well.
They should all be banned
I am am NO Longer Interested in Johnny Bench's "opinions"
And yet not one Astro player is banned for life.
Pete didn't cheat or bet against his team, its time he's in the HOF
So true! Illegal to bet with your team is wrong??? Pete HOF!
I dont know how betting on yourself to win is worse than literally rigging the game into your favor. Not to mention all the cheaters, criminals, and steroid users in the hall of fame. But no, being confident enough to bet on your own team to win is somehow worse. The MLB is so ass backwards.
Love the Astros, all haters also suffer from TDS.....Dusty miss ya my friend..
Let him in he served his sentence. Can't forget how great his talent was and the records he accomplished...
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball.
If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are.
Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
his sentence is a lifetime ban so no he hasent served his sentence
@@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture You rule! I don't know how people don't see what you see. You make perfect sense.
@@assassin415 I couldn't have said it better myself. He is lucky that baseball even gave him any parole hearings for what he did.
If were Pete I would accept privately and decline openly on social media and national news , then walk off into the sun set. 😎
Pete Rose was an outstanding player
That's not the point.
@@NortonsNestMonthly that's exactly the FN POINT
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
@@snave59 Yes, now that you mentioned it!!!
Joe Jackson gets in before Pete
Abbuhl Charles I agree completely! If anyone deserves to be in the HOF, it’s Joe Jackson.
Yes shoeless should get in He was found not guilty But he will never get in there
Yup.
Hell yes for joe
Nope. Regardless if Joe Jackson did or did not take the 5K he knew what was going on.
Pete's Arrogance & Pride stood in the Way! His attitude hasn't changed 1 Bit Either!
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
Heh, seemed like every pack i got, he was in it. I never got the George brett card that i wanted (as a Royal he was my 2ndfavorite behind Quisenberry)
How the hell at 44 could Pete have been your favorite player? This guys last good year was 81..
Too bad I was stupid and taped all those Pete rose cards with masking tape in a photo album! Lol
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
@bryan joiner right. You would watch a sporting event if you thought it was rigged. Allow 1 man to get away with it then you have to allow everyone.
Does it really matter anymore if he's in the HoF or not? Not being in is more of a boom for him than if he was. Things have been so watered down lately with some of the recent inductees (good players, not great, who just got in) that being in the HoF is devalued.
As a HUGE Cardinals and Ted Simmons fan, I have nothing but respect for Johnny Bench.
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Your missing the point, they wanted him to confess. If he did, he's in. He's a stubborn prick.
👍👍
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
My dad, god rest his soul, played minor leagues for a couple years, believed that he shouldnt be in the hall of fame just like johnny bench! Always said he cheated and then would never admit it! I loved him as a ball player and looked up to him as a kid growing up playing baseball. I think he should be in on his accomplishments on the field, but not as a manager!! My dad and i would have conversations about it and looked at it differently but after hearing johnny bench describe his thoughts on it and him playing on the same team and knowing more than we do, i have to side with my dad now!! I guess my old school dad was right!!
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Bullshit.
He is a Cheater, he gambled on the game as a Player & a Manager, 1 Rule in Baseball, Don't gamble on it.
@@Rspenesmit He only got caught.... many many players bet on baseball.
Bullshit
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close.
On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
No one is bigger than the integrity of the game, no one!
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
@@68air
Well the steroid guys are not in. Betting on baseball destroys the games integrity..
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
@@jumpmasterpadre9335 can u prove they werent taking steroids b4 baseball tested for them? No, u cant! So.... Go fuck yourself
Johnny just going to forget everybody was using uppers supplied by the team in his day. Integrity of the game is a joke.
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
Read the Dowd Report. It's incredible.
I've been hearing that he only bet on his team to win games. Has this been proven or just came from Pete? Serious question if anybody knows.
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
Then take out Cobb, Ruth, and everyone that played before 1950 95% of all players where drunks. Ty Cobb and Tris Speaker did get banned from baseball in 1926 for gambling but went to Commissioner Landis that he would tell the reporter who else gamble's on baseball and his ban was lifted
Wait: are you saying drinking is against the rules of eligibility of baseball? Drinking is cheating? Strange. First time I ever heard that theory. As for Cobb and Speaker gambling, Rule 21 was put in place in 1927. The 'death penalty' for gambling did not exist in 1919 (when Cobb and Speaker bet on their team, in a series that they heard the other team was throwing). When Jackson and company were banned, it was NOT because of gambling. It was due to what was believed to be conspiring with gambling elements to throw the series.
In other words, your whatabout... has no merit here. Rose knowingly and repeatedly violated a rule that is on the wall in every single clubhouse in the majors. He was a degenerate gambler and degenerate person, and is paying the price for breaking the rules.
@@bauerj3398 what rose did was not as bad as what the white Sox did when the rigged the World Series but yet they are in the mlb is a joke at this point
@@The_king567 What? The White Sox are not in the HOF. Joe Jackson is a top 20 player all time, certainly a better player than Rose, and he is not in. This despite the fact that that he never attended the meetings to fix the Series, is disputed to have ever particpated in the fix other than accepting $5000, and was the best player in the Series.
As for Rose, he is just a scumbag whose lying never stopped. Keeps adjusting his story when it becomes apparent nobody believes him. He willfully and repeatedly broke rule with the express punishment of a lifetime ban, and people feel bad for him because he is banned? Eff him.
@@bauerj3398 yea joes not in but he should be and there are players from the white Sox that are in the hof like Eddie Collins,Ray Schalk,Red Faber etc
@@The_king567 And Collins, Schalk,and Faber were not implicated in any way in the Black Sox Scandal, so what is your point of bringing them up?
I’d like to hear Johnny Bench speak on his career, what a waste of time when he has to take questions on Pete Rose!
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
Coat tails? That career?
@James Ratliff He would have been better off with large knees.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
I’d pay to see how Johnny talks to Pete
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@davidjorgensen877 shoeless joe jackson hasn’t been the all time hits leader for the last 35 years either
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
@@roland7584 here’s the difference between Joe and Pete. Pete was retired from playing. Joe did it while CURRENTLY playing
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
He bet on games including on the Reds while he was even a Manager for the Reds, come on folks, he stays out of the Cooperstown. Sure he was was an all-time great, would have loved him on my team, most would agree, just not in the Hall of Fame. I can't believe after 33 years we are still debating this, it is over - this is about the integrity of the game. Besides all this, I wish health and happiness, he is 81, God Bless him.
Integrity? Tell me the player or manager who earns a salary so meager that he has to gamble and fix games? No one needs to protect the integrity of baseball due to gambling violations. Not now days. This is insider grudge-politics, and it stinks.
@@stevesilva2780 , he gambled because he like it and probably got hooked on it.
Integrity of the game? LoL. Do you have any idea how many games were called because of rain and made official? Home teams won 70% of those in the 50's and 60's? How bout that integrity?
Oh please he bet on the reds to win not lose
I was his caddie for a few years and let me tell you when they say be careful of meeting your heroes, they were right.
Caddy to Bench or Rose?
Yes
I grew up in cincy in the 60s-70s. Pete was one of the best ballplayers of all time, but not a very good human. I hope he gets his life together.
Well , he never answered you , so I guess he was lying @@TheBobbybbc
..BS ...Pete should be in the HOF ...no one's perfect... including J Bench
He didn't bet on baseball thats the difference he couldn't stop moved to Vegas lol he's an addict!
Did Johnny bet on his own team?
Pete Rose was a player that should be in the Hall of Fame.
Absolutely not. He knowingly and willingly violated the integrity of the sport as a player/manager and then bald faced lied in saying he didn’t for 16 years. He was also sexually deviant and involved in drug trafficking while still managing the reds.
One thing about Pete, he didn’t buy ONE hit. Read Bench’s personal life. He didn’t walk on water.
I know. Who is he to talk,?
@@Amick44 How did Bench break MLB rules?
@@tedfio1tedfio1 I wasn't aware that he did
@@Amick44 Than what is wrong with Bench answering the question given to him about Rose? Bench is viewd by most as the greatest MLB Catcher to ever play the game. He was a teamate of Rose and knows the man!
Bench was as if asbumbastheycome
Hall of fame for Pete!!!!!!
Whose a bigger disgrace to the game? The guy who made bets on games he was actively involved in and lied about it, or the stupid defenders of that kind of behavior?
It will never happen, besides, Rose did Agree to a Lifetime Ban, and not to mention he served time in Prison for Tax Evasion!!!!
1. Yes Pete Rose does deserve to be in the Hall of Fame as his stats and accomplishments more than justify that.
2. The HOF simply needs to note his suspension for betting on games as part of his HOF plaque.
3. Even players with criminal records belong in the Hall if their stats warrant it, because even great players have stories beyond baseball that also need to be told, not hidden.
4. Fans of the sport and the HOF itself suffers more than Rose by not seeing his bust, his legacy and history in the Hall.
5. The Hall now lacks credibility without some of it's most "Famous" players in it, and has been reduced to becoming "The Hall of the Self-Righteous Voter".
Why is gambling the cardinal sin in baseball? It doesn't determine the outcome of games like steroids and what the Astros did.
Actually it could, and very likely would, influence the outcome of games. As just one example, let's say a player places a bet on a game (not one of his team's games). And let's say he's good friends with the pitcher on one of those teams. Let's say he bets $25K that his friend's team will lose that game. What's to stop him from calling his friend and telling him to groove some fastballs right down the middle of the plate to the other team's best hitters? Or what's to stop that pitcher from throwing a wild pitch with the bases loaded so that the other team wins? Or do a hundred other things to throw a game, with the understanding that he and his bettor friend will split the winnings?
Or let's say that player gambles on his own team and places large bets that his team will lose. He now has an incentive to throw the game. Make an error at a critical point in the game, or strike out on purpose, or fall down while running the base paths and get thrown out, or whatever.
Gambling on one's sport cannot be tolerated by a league. Too many players are unethical. Look at all the cheaters MLB has had, from Bonds, McGwire, Canseco, Palmerio, Clemens and others (steroids), to throwing doctored pitches (Niekro, Sutton, Perry, et al.). And God only knows how many dozens or hundreds more that have cheated and never gotten caught. And as you pointed out, the Astros.
I love Pete. But Johnnys quote about going to your kids and saying there’s no more rules hits hard and he’s exactly right
thats a petty emotional ploy. none of that changes Rose's staggering accomplishments on the field.
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat.
Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
Give me a decent person over a great athlete any day. Pete was the latter not the former.
If Pete isn't in the hall of fame, then a whole bunch of others, for a variety of reasons, shouldn't be in the hall of fame either
What other breakers of the #1 rule in baseball are in the Hall?
Pete should ABSOLUTELY be in the HOF
Bench rather have all these baseball players that used Steroids in the hall of fame then Rose be in for gambling.yes i know what rose did but still he deserves the hall of fame
You have a link to Bench supporting Bonds, Mac, Sosa, etc. for the Hall?
Hypocrisy on Johnny Bench part..
@@juanccifuentes7033 Why? did Bench bet on baseball?
@@bauerj3398 He actually dident, but he was not as good as Pete Rose, he was jealous of him.
@@bauerj3398 plus the hipocricy in baseball is hilarious, loom at the astros, they got caught cheating n kept their trophy, and i can assure you 1 or 2 of those players will get in..
That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard a man say. If he ends up in the Hall of Fame he gets there because of his accomplishments on the diamond not for what he did off the field. We all know Hall of Famers who have led unpleasant lives off the field and yet they got or kept their inductions.
what did Bench have to say about Barry Bonds and all the other drug enhancement cheaters?
Im sure those guys wont ever get in either
It don’t matter if he gets in... he will always be talked about.. you made him infamous... on top of his 4K plus hits....
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
Rose is a failure at the bigger game called life.
If you bet on baseball, you are banned for life. No exceptions. No second chances. What part of that don't some people get?
Yeah & MLB happily partners with gambling entity DraftKings every season now! What part of that don't YOU get! MLB is a shame thanks to Selig/Manfred
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
Love Jonny Bench, but to say "if you have to tell Your Kids that there are No Rules in Baseball"; PLEASE! HOW ABOUT STERIODS, ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS (PITCHERS ESPECIALLY) AND TEAMS and Have CHEATED "UNDER MLS "RULES". WHAT A JOKE!
Pete Rose is already in the Hall of Fame . All his uniforms and stories are there. He just didn’t get a plaque
That is a fact Michael. He is in the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame as well. That is a fact. This back and forth BS is so played out. The facts are what matter. Everything else is just personal feelings, opinions and beliefs.
People across the nation don't understand that Pete and Johnny didn't really get along. That's why he's saying this
Im thinking that must be the reason cuz i just saw a interview where he says barry bonds should get in lol
Agree 100 percent with Johnny Bench
Yup
Charlie hustle was my favorite player as a kid...and in my opinion a top 5 player EVER...the hall of fame is a joke without pete in it...bench always had sour grapes toward pete bottom line because pete was just better!!
Bench was the better player. That is why he considered the greatest catcher of all time
@@charlesdoyle3630 please bench is good but just a home run hitter,rose does it all,its not even close,bench knows that,thats why he's jealous..
So every HOF pitcher who ever threw a spitball or scuffed a ball during their career should be removed from the HOF. Right?
After all, cheating is cheating, and rules are rules, right?
I can name dozens of HOF players who cheated during their career. And the HOF committee knew they were cheaters when they voted them in.
Look at Johnny Bench’s character: He urged his then-wife Vickie Chesser to accept $25,000 to pose nude in HUSTLER magazine.
Such a Hall of Fame husband.
Such a great representative for baseball.
Such a role model for kids.
who need a friend like Johnny Bench?
A straight shooter is always helpful
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
So, he should lie?
No One
@@pb12661 he kinda always came off that way to me.
Pete Rose’s incredible accomplishments were completely independent of his personal problems, he always played at 110%. I think he deserves the Hall of Fame, Lord knows we have a lot of inducted members that have worse issues that Pete’s.
Really, which other members are pedophiles?
@@moriellymoproblems7842 if I remember correctly, his denial to admission into the Hall of Fame had to do with gambling.
If you can point out a player in the Hall who willfully, repeatedly broke the one rule that specifically calls for a lifetime ban, then you might have an argument.
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
Lefty Rosenthal agrees
@@KoolT and now with Caesars and the white Sox official partners. No hypocrisy at all there
@@KoolT LOL..exactly right
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
So ridiculous. They forgot to mention that a ton of Pete Rose's memorabilia is already in the Basement Hall of Fame.
Does Johnny Bench tell his kids that if they break the rules, their punishment should last forever?
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
you don't get it. Pete broke a one of the sacred rules of the games, he doesn't get in , period,
It wasn’t breaking the rules that sealed Pete’s fate, it was lying about it so self righteously for well over decade and then confessing it to get money on a tell all book. He’s a lousy guy.
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
Bet offerings are for public, not for active players or managers lol
Bench is 100% correct. For so many reasons.
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
I assume we should be ok with the college point shaving scandals mover the years as well?
I would suggest Stan Musial as a model. Just as dedicated as Rose but he has integrity and class, which Rose didn't think mattered.
@@wyldebyll3089 Oh get over yourself lol. The man deserves to be in the Hall. End of story.
@@wyldebyll3089 Point taken. Nonetheless, I could watch video of Rose’s highlights and hear him talk about baseball for hours.
Then your values are warped. Pete Rose is an example of bad moral character.
Johnny was a great player and should not have to answer endless "Pete" questions every interview he does.
He needs some blue emu
lol true
it's outrageous baseball teams are allowed to do business with casinos. Pete Rose has a beef. Baseball has never been more dishonest.
I agree with Johnny Bench 110%; PETE ROSE MUST NEVER, EVER BE IN THE HALL OF FAME!!!🥰😍🤩❤️❤️❤️
You can't go over 100% Einstein
Johnny Bench ... Go home and tell your kids Harold Baines is in the HOF. More disgraceful.
hiram hacklesworth Considering baseball-reference.com knows WAY more about this than I do, NO, he doesn’t.
hiram hacklesworth Rose belongs in the HOF. Baines does not.
hiram hacklesworth Baseball Reference says Rose should be in. Baseball Reference says Baines isn’t close.
hiram hacklesworth go to baseball-refernence.com
Black Ink monitor
Gray Ink monitor
HOF
JAWS
all of them reach the conclusions I stated regarding Rose = yes & Baines = no
How did baines get in
Insane how they ban Pete Rose for gambling on baseball, but they have all kinds of ads for gambling at the parks, on radio, and on TV.
I love Pete, Bench is one of the best hitting catchers of the 70’s. Pete is the greatest hitter ever to play the game and if Pete didn’t come to Philly we never would have won it all in 1980. Pete Rose is on a way higher level than Bench....
Being a hardcore Dodger fan in the 70's, I hated Rose & the Reds, but to keep a guy/rose that had more hits, than anyone that has ever played the game, is just stupid, the HOF is for what the players did On the field, not off. btw the 1919 white soxs players took money to Lose, aka to take a dive like in boxing.
And none of them are in. No proof that Shoeless Joe Jackson threw any games and he is not in either. His lying and lack of contrition are big reasons he is not in
His banned from MLB. MLB doesn't have an official relationship with the HOF. It's a separate entity. Being banned from MLB shouldn't ban anyone from the HOF
Pete Rose should be in Hall of Fame! 😊
They offered it to him for his admission of guilt and an apology and he said know …that seemed like a fair offer
MLB has no say in who goes in hall it's privately owned
And all the drugees too? Cmon
Funny story...my family bumped into Johnny Bench when I was coming out of a surgery. I was loaded up on pain meds but I knew I recognized him. I just couldn't figure out how. I asked my wife to ask him and she hesitantly asked him if he knew me. He graciously admitted who he was. We have two photos he let us take as a group with him. Such a class act.
I hated the Cincinnati Reds but I always loved Johnny Bench. Probably the greatest catcher of all-time, a total winner and class act. And he still looks great.
Like rose said " bench wouldn't be in the HOF if not for me"!
What about Joe Morgan who doesn't believe Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame. Did Pete Rose make him a Hall of famer? Fuck off.
Bench is pretty much unanimously considered the greatest catcher of all time. Not sure what Pete Rose had to do with that
Oh Bullshit. Bench is one of the top 2 or 3 catchers of all time. He is in the Hall, and Charlie Dirtbag has nothing to do with it.
Rose probably gave him a few more Rbis that is all.
Bull fucking shit.
Pete Rose was a great thug. The same aberrant personality that contributed to his playing prowess also cost him his Hall of Fame hopes.
Yup, pride goeth before a fall.
I'm not sure "thug" is the best description when referring to Pete Rose.
@@pb12661 Well, I am, so are we clear now?
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
Neither should Ty Cobb, Babe Ruth, Honus Wagner, Joe Dimaggio and a wide variety of others with connections to people who were underworld figures. Johnny, the integrity of the game dictates that anyone who had even the most trifling character flaw or questionable connection should be removed from the Hall for it. By the time we are done, there may be 7 players left, and not even you would survive. Roberto Clemente would not even survive the purge, and neither would Thurmon Munson. Griffey Jr, Ichiro (when he gets in), Edgar Martinez, and a handful of other goody two shoes that don't include you, oddly, would remain. Are you really sure you want to go there? Because I could easily come up with character flaws or connections that would eliminate you if I really wanted to try. Where do you stop? Slippery slope, dude. Think on that, Johnny Bench.
I love how you wrote this like Johnny Bench would actually read it. Funnier is even if he did read it you thinking he gives a shit what you say. Thanks for the chuckle man.
That being said, Rose should be in the HOF and it is just an ego thing keeping him out. As soon as he dies I bet they vote him in via committee or whatever
@@Dime-bz6hc To be honest, I couldn't care less whether Johnny Boy reads what I wrote or not, and if he did I don't give one tinker's damn what he thinks of my opinion of his opinion. I appreciate that we both feel the same about the inclusion of Rose. My biggest issue is that they laid down certain criteria for his possible induction, or at least inclusion on the ballot. He may have come late to the party, but he did meet all those requirements in the intervening years. And the banning of Joe Jackson is even more ludicrous. That was nothing more than a power play by Landis, an attempt to force his will on everyone else. Jackson, if you look at his actual numbers for the series, did nothing wrong to throw the series. The only homerun hit, zero errors, three outfield assists, and absolutely no evidence of any tainted play he was involved in. But the most hated man to ever play the game, Ty Cobb, is still in. That is a sad thing, really. As for the "ego thing", it isn't his ego that is the problem. It is the ego of pissant power players like the Johnster that are at play here. Rose has already made his admissions and paid his penance. And as to whether he will get in when he dies, Joe Jackson is long dead, and he isn't in yet.
You two clowns are just sad.
So I guess Johnny and every other HOFer is a straight shooter. Hmmmmmm
No they sure aren't, Pete belongs in the hall Bench is such a hypocrite
It aint a crime if you dont get caught .
@@daveyboy_ Then they should call it the Hall of Guys Who Didn't Get Caught.
@@CrazyAboutVinylRecords didnt get caught doing what ?
bench is a phony.
Yes Pete Rose should of come clean years ago.Even convicted felon’s and murder’s are given second chance.All time hits leader a record that will probably never be broken put the man in the HOF!!!!
Pete was in jail for this? OMG what have I missed over the last 30 years.
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
He's still jealous of Pete to this day.
So you know Johnny Bench personally and he told you that?
When Bench played for the Red’s I was a fan and in fact a fan of all the Reds. I KNOW for a fact that the majority of Red’s players would vote for Pete. The truth is that Bench is jealous of Pete and has been for years. Bench KNOWS damn well Rose did not bet on ball games during his playing years and that IS the difference but Bench refuses to acknowledge. During his playing years Rose was clean and trust me THEY DUG DEEP IN THEIR SEARCH to prove differently but found nada. Based on the fact Rose broke records during his playing years should be more than enough to recognize Rose in Baseball HOF and Mention that he is banned from Base Ball as a manager.
I really don’t like players like Bench that suck up the company line. Pete Rose absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. There’s so many unscrupulous characters that ended up in jail, beat their wives… That are sitting in the Hall of Fame.
Couldn't agree More.
Rose deserves to be in the HOF for what he did ON the field. If the all-time hit leader is not in the HOF, there is no reason to have the HOF.
Pete Rose is a Hall of Fame player and deserves to be in. Considering some of the supposed “clean players” that are in the hall now , Pete Rose is a no-brainer! If you think about it, it almost seems silly and petty to keep a store like rose out of the Hall of Fame.
Sure he broke the rules.. But you can't keep the greatest Hitter in the history of the game out because he broke some rules... The punishment doesn't fit the crime!
I've never heard he bet against his team to lose, that would be a crime to fit the punishment...
Let's just say the Reds had a 3 game series over the weekend. Pete knows the rotation coming into the weekend, so he feels he has a great chance the Reds will win Saturday. So...first he doesn't bet Friday's game, or maybe he puts on a small wager just because he loves action. On Friday, in a close game, he decides not to use a particular reliever or 2 because he wants them fresh in case they are needed for Saturday's game. On Saturday, he loads up on the Reds for his bet. After a few times doing this, the bookies start catching on to the betting pattern, and thus they now have important information for the betting world. I hope this helps explain why betting on these games is horrible for any sport when you have control of the game as a manager or as a player. The punishment certainly fits the crime in this case, and it was written in every clubhouse. It's a shame he spent so many waking hours studying what to bet on instead of trying to manage that team to a World Series. The team was in place to win multiple championships, so at least when he was finally gone, they had a manager purely focused on winning and amazingly they went wire to wire without him betting from his office or the dugout 5 minutes before game time.
He called into question the integrity of the game. Unlike drug use or alcoholism, gambling on the game affects the game itself. It doesn’t just bring shame on one person. If players/managers bet on games, the very outcome of games and playoffs are in doubt. Baseball becomes like professional wrestling - just a scripted soap opera. I spent 37 years in baseball as a ML scout and I am firmly in the “No” category for Rose’s HOF eligibility.
So you are responsible for turning a blind eye to the PED era. Nice integrity there!
Loved Pete Rose back in the day. Lost all respect when he was caught gambling. Doesn't matter to me if he's in the HOF or not.
What is the mentality behind "I lost all respect....". Do you think you're Pete Rose's mother (in law) or what?
@@xxxYYZxxx No Pete. Stop trolling. We are not related. You can gamble. It's all ok to do now
I don’t blame for Johnny saying no to Pete either.