Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.” -sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
It wasn’t breaking the rules that sealed Pete’s fate, it was lying about it so self righteously for well over decade and then confessing it to get money on a tell all book. He’s a lousy guy.
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
Pete Rose isn't in because baseball has a weird code and betting on the game itself is somehow the biggest sin bigger than the racism of former inductees steroid use and other cheating and numerous other bad behaviors it's the imaginary shrine of the game itself Pete Rose as a player should be in there but he won't because baseball cannot get over itself
And you can't get over that your favorite jerk isn't EVER going to be in the Hall. That Clown had a chance to come clean.... But NO, Pete Rose had to have it ALL his way. Have a Drink. 🍼
@@michaelminster9239Yet here we are 6 years after this clip with baseball (and other sports) now promoting gambling and a current baseball star using his translator as a scapegoat for gambling.
I agree with and at the same time Pete was his own worst enemy. His actions and inactions after getting caught gambling have done more damage in keeping him out of the HOF than the gambling itself.
This isn't a moral issue. This is a viability issue. If people have the perception that the game is rigged they won't attend the games and they won't watch on TV, and the money goes away. If MLB is going to survive it has to maintain some credibility, and a zero tolerance policy on betting on baseball is part of that.
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
Rush Ron The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
Bench diminished himself taking this absolute stance against Pete Rose going in the HOF. It’s petty. It’s selfish. The real question is WHY BENCH HATES PETE ROSE THAT MUCH.
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
Imagine Johnny Bench watching a baseball game today along with all the millions of dollars in advertising for MGM Bet, ESPN Bet, Fan Duel, Draft Kings, etc. and telling people with a straight face Pete Rose doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame for gambling.
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
Love Jonny Bench, but to say "if you have to tell Your Kids that there are No Rules in Baseball"; PLEASE! HOW ABOUT STERIODS, ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS (PITCHERS ESPECIALLY) AND TEAMS and Have CHEATED "UNDER MLS "RULES". WHAT A JOKE!
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close. On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball. If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are. Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
Does it really matter anymore if he's in the HoF or not? Not being in is more of a boom for him than if he was. Things have been so watered down lately with some of the recent inductees (good players, not great, who just got in) that being in the HoF is devalued.
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
I didn't see it as arrogance. Pete was just Pete. There r 2:51 very few people who met him outside of baseball who say that he wasn't one of the nicest most outgoing people they ever met. He just couldn't own up he screwed up big time. He really only hurt himself. Put all of that aside Pete gave 110 percent on the field!!!
I guess Johnny Bench is the moral compass for everyone in the hall of fame. Johnny there are criminals, adulterers, and guys on steroids etc.. you are out of your mind if you dont think Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame.
That is a fact Michael. He is in the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame as well. That is a fact. This back and forth BS is so played out. The facts are what matter. Everything else is just personal feelings, opinions and beliefs.
Funny story...my family bumped into Johnny Bench when I was coming out of a surgery. I was loaded up on pain meds but I knew I recognized him. I just couldn't figure out how. I asked my wife to ask him and she hesitantly asked him if he knew me. He graciously admitted who he was. We have two photos he let us take as a group with him. Such a class act.
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat. Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
I really don’t like players like Bench that suck up the company line. Pete Rose absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. There’s so many unscrupulous characters that ended up in jail, beat their wives… That are sitting in the Hall of Fame.
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
You have to love the controversy. Rose deserves the HOF as a player, there was never a question, first ballot. But gambling on the team you manage is zero tolerance. Pete isn't the smartest tool in the shed (except his baseball instincts are 200 IQ), and so that provides some forgiveness, but still. He was involved with gangsters, bet heavily. When your life or at least fortune may depend on the outcome of a single game, you overuse your best pitcher or some way use your ability as a manager to put extra emphasis on winning a single game when what you need to think about is the season. Or beat the point spread, you put in your best reliever in a non-save situation. On and on and on. If he didn't do that, the point is he was incentivized to do this.
When Bench played for the Red’s I was a fan and in fact a fan of all the Reds. I KNOW for a fact that the majority of Red’s players would vote for Pete. The truth is that Bench is jealous of Pete and has been for years. Bench KNOWS damn well Rose did not bet on ball games during his playing years and that IS the difference but Bench refuses to acknowledge. During his playing years Rose was clean and trust me THEY DUG DEEP IN THEIR SEARCH to prove differently but found nada. Based on the fact Rose broke records during his playing years should be more than enough to recognize Rose in Baseball HOF and Mention that he is banned from Base Ball as a manager.
Sure he broke the rules.. But you can't keep the greatest Hitter in the history of the game out because he broke some rules... The punishment doesn't fit the crime! I've never heard he bet against his team to lose, that would be a crime to fit the punishment...
Let's just say the Reds had a 3 game series over the weekend. Pete knows the rotation coming into the weekend, so he feels he has a great chance the Reds will win Saturday. So...first he doesn't bet Friday's game, or maybe he puts on a small wager just because he loves action. On Friday, in a close game, he decides not to use a particular reliever or 2 because he wants them fresh in case they are needed for Saturday's game. On Saturday, he loads up on the Reds for his bet. After a few times doing this, the bookies start catching on to the betting pattern, and thus they now have important information for the betting world. I hope this helps explain why betting on these games is horrible for any sport when you have control of the game as a manager or as a player. The punishment certainly fits the crime in this case, and it was written in every clubhouse. It's a shame he spent so many waking hours studying what to bet on instead of trying to manage that team to a World Series. The team was in place to win multiple championships, so at least when he was finally gone, they had a manager purely focused on winning and amazingly they went wire to wire without him betting from his office or the dugout 5 minutes before game time.
@@nickpeitchev7763 Johnny hit .267, had less and half the hits as Rose and never won a title without Rose. So in comparison he was scrub. Rose was a good fielder too and played multiple positions.
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
@@nancyjones9925 I take stock of a man’s conscience before I make myself answerable to his athletic exploits. No point in being great at baseball if you are terrible at manhood.
Yes Pete Rose should of come clean years ago.Even convicted felon’s and murder’s are given second chance.All time hits leader a record that will probably never be broken put the man in the HOF!!!!
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
Bench used to be my favorite player when I was a kid. totally disagree with his hardline stance against Rose. the guys numbers and ability on the field should be recognized in the HOF.
Bench got a divorce and his ex wife was asked about Bench. She said "Johnny Bench may be a hall of fame baseball player but in the bedroom he is a minor leaguer"
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
@@billmoyer3254 No, dumbass, if your kids break a rule they get punished, but you eventually do forgive and move on. Pete has been punished for 30 years. That's how real men handle it. Beta males get all in their feelings and butthurt and don't want to move on.
He called into question the integrity of the game. Unlike drug use or alcoholism, gambling on the game affects the game itself. It doesn’t just bring shame on one person. If players/managers bet on games, the very outcome of games and playoffs are in doubt. Baseball becomes like professional wrestling - just a scripted soap opera. I spent 37 years in baseball as a ML scout and I am firmly in the “No” category for Rose’s HOF eligibility.
toyman81 Not all rules that are broken are created equal. Betting artificially alters the outcome of the game. You can control more of the outcome of the game through betting than with PEDs. And as a manager, you even have more control if you’re betting on the game. It’s the ultimate sin for a reason. It might as well be the WWE if you’re going to do that.
Johny was a great player! Being a pirates fan I didn't like him but I always respected his talent! I believe he had the most home runs in MLB during the 70s!
Pete Rose is in every fans Hall of Fame anyway. Yes, what he did was stupid, and he has regretted it countless times, but he is one of the top all-time great players. Let me write that one word again ... "Players." He belongs in the HOF as a player. What he did came later. O.J. Simpson is still in the NFL Hall of Fame, and what he did was FAR worse than what Pete Rose did. Pete Rose = HOF!
Being a hardcore Dodger fan in the 70's, I hated Rose & the Reds, but to keep a guy/rose that had more hits, than anyone that has ever played the game, is just stupid, the HOF is for what the players did On the field, not off. btw the 1919 white soxs players took money to Lose, aka to take a dive like in boxing.
And none of them are in. No proof that Shoeless Joe Jackson threw any games and he is not in either. His lying and lack of contrition are big reasons he is not in
You MoFo's are dense, his gambling addiction made him untrustworthy and threatened the integrity of the game. You can't have a manager betting on his own sport, there would be no way to know if his on field decisions were gambling based or what is best for the team in that situation.
@scrub44 Stop hanging onto childhood dreams, he also said he did not bet as a player but that was proven untrue. You cannot take him at his word, and yes there is proof that he bet against his own team
@@Bidwellz9 In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, published by Rodale Press on January 8, 2004, Rose finally admitted publicly to betting on baseball games and other sports while playing for and managing the Reds. He also admitted to betting on Reds games,
This is such BS. Pete Rose doesn't own me anything. He surely doesn't owe these guys anything. Pete Rose was a legend, with flaws. Just like everything else. A million players have done a million bad things, and nobody cares. I'd pick Pete Rose as a friend and a player everyday of the week over Jonny Bench.
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
Sounds to me like he’s saying “he makes us look bad” when his remarks mean “his records make us look bad”. Cmon Johnny. I loved Bench and hated Rose growing up...my how things change.
Maybe he didn't deserve it back then but he won hundred percent deserves it now because of the way gambling is now Guys that would have never talked about gambling on TV are talking about it like it's a walk in the park You can't have both There Should not be a question about Pete rose getting in nobody should question it put him in today It will be the biggest crowd Cooperstown as ever had Do it before the poor man dies
Bench rather have all these baseball players that used Steroids in the hall of fame then Rose be in for gambling.yes i know what rose did but still he deserves the hall of fame
@@bauerj3398 plus the hipocricy in baseball is hilarious, loom at the astros, they got caught cheating n kept their trophy, and i can assure you 1 or 2 of those players will get in..
If all human beings aren't allowed in the BASEBALL Hall of Fame on the merit of their PLAY, then none of them should be. A GOOD criminal is excellent at covering tracks. A good human, by appearances, too. Even in the HUMAN Hall of Fame, the best & worst must be respresented. These things aren't for us to judge. If there ISN'T a heaven, we'll never really know what was real & good. We can only go on what we KNOW, and the best serial killers die free men. Honouring living legends is a futile, unfair, inadequate illusion. What I know, and others, about Johnny Bench I'll keep to myself & take to the grave. You all know what you did. Don't think someone else doesn't. Nanny cams have been around since before you were born. Heat sensitive satellite camera technology too. Stop the crucifixion. Stop the judgement. Put down the stone. Pull out the board. Or be judged by your own standard. Pete's in or no one is. My HOF is the one that matters to me...it's got all of them in there. The bad THINGS they did, I may point out to my kids as a warning & teaching moment, for their growth. Any other attitude or spirit is not useful or helpful. It's just hypocrisy. Bench may not be there without Rose. We'll never know.
Johnny Bench is the greatest catcher, ever. Without Rose he’d still be in the HOF, easily. Rose was a great, great player but that Big Red Machine would still have won (harder to do but they would have done it). Rose is too stubborn.
I love Pete, Bench is one of the best hitting catchers of the 70’s. Pete is the greatest hitter ever to play the game and if Pete didn’t come to Philly we never would have won it all in 1980. Pete Rose is on a way higher level than Bench....
Doesn’t really matter if they hang a plaque on a wall somewhere for Rose, his name will live on forever as one of the greatest of all time.
Mountain Fisher I never said he was a hero, I never said he wasn’t a gambler, I never said he conducted himself like an angel. Really I’m no big Rose fan. Regardless of his actions he is still one of the “greatest” hitters to ever live. He played baseball to win. There is nothing he can do or anyone can say to deny this.
@@tinyman520 O.J. Simpson was a great football player too but don't think anyone is going to be putting up a plaque for him and he was acquitted.
Yup, people should continue to talk about him.
Especially to the next generation
I agree!
Harold Baines is in the Hall and Pete Rose is not....
They should really induct Joe Jackson posthumously. I know he may have had knowledge of the Black Sox scandal, but the dude hit .375 for the series, had the most RBI's, and even hit the only HR in the series. He maintained his innocence in his career, and at this point, I really think it's long overdue to enshrine Jackson in the HOF.
Agreed...but I also think Rose should be in...I just don't understand how mistakes for part of their career defines their entire career.
“When a Cincinnati player would bat a ball out in my territory I’d muff it if I could-that is, fail to catch it. But if it would look too much like crooked work to do that, I’d be slow and make a throw to the infield that would be short. My work netted the Cincinnati team several runs that they never would have had if we had been playing on the square.”
-sworn testimony by Joe Jackson
and more....“And I’m going to give you a tip. A lot of these sporting writers that have been roasting me have been talking about the third game of the World’s Series being square. Let me tell you something. The eight of us did our best to kick it and little Dick Kerr won the game by his pitching. Because he won it, those gamblers double crossed us because we double crossed them.”
Stats aren't everything.
@kidzbop38isstraightfire92 If you were a model citizen and good neighbor right up until the caught you robbing a charity fund, do you think they should give you the keys to the city and make you Man of the Year after you serve your time?
Does Johnny Bench tell his kids that if they break the rules, their punishment should last forever?
Not all rules have punishments that last forever. This rule that Pete broke actually does have that punishment and it was clearly written for Rose to read every day and he definitely saw that rule more than any other baseball player in history since he played so many games. It's quite possible he never saw the rule because he had his head down while walking into the clubhouse checking out the betting lines for all the games that day.
you don't get it. Pete broke a one of the sacred rules of the games, he doesn't get in , period,
It wasn’t breaking the rules that sealed Pete’s fate, it was lying about it so self righteously for well over decade and then confessing it to get money on a tell all book. He’s a lousy guy.
Hey he knew the risk when he took the risk. May he rest in peace.
@@MaximusWolfehe also dated a child and evaded taxes.
Pete Rose has such a legacy that it wouldn’t matter if he were inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@James Ratliff It would be nothing like Kareem. Kareem never disgraced his sport so why would he not be in the NBA Hall of Fame? The only thing in the NBA you can compare Pete Rose to that would make sense is Tim Donaghy.
@James Ratliff Baseball has integrity for keeping Rose and Bonds out thus proving they can't be compared to wrestling. Rose committed the cardinal sin and baseball already had a poster boy if anyone else tried it. Everyone knew what the punishment would be and it was clearly written. It wouldn't have surprised me if someone that was barely on a roster tried to bet, but the hit king doing it just proves how arrogant he is and to deny it for years rather than take the deals that were handed to him even before the investigation makes it one of the worst stories in the hi story of all sports. He could have avoided going to jail if he just took the deal, but somehow he thought he could lie and deny it forever. I guarantee if he made the hall 5 years afterwards, he would have never confessed to anything. He still denies things that the evidence clearly points out. Keeping him on the permanently ineligible list is the only decision in the last 40 years that baseball has gotten right.
@James Ratliff Kareem never broke a rule that states if you break it you will be banned for life. Pete Rose did.
@James Ratliff I'm caught up in the fact that this was a Pete Rose discussion about him being banned from baseball for gambling on the Reds. The investigation didn't span all the years of his career. Once they could validate the claims made by his bet runners, they didn't go much further than that. However, years later it was discovered that they had evidence Rose did in fact bet on baseball while he was a player manager. Regardless, whether his playing days were over or not, he broke Rule 21 and he knew what the punishment would be. He will never get into the Hall, but Kareem proudly sits in the NBA Hall of Fame for not breaking any rules.
@James Ratliff It's wrestling. Who cares? The whole thing is a total scripted show. Major sports can't script Willie Mays' catch in the World Series. They can't script Derek Jeter's play against the A's. Wrestling is all scripted, all steroids, all made up. Vince McMahon was the freaking owner when he was "just the announcer". That's how scripted the entire thing is. They are great at it. Are the wrestlers athletes. Sure they are but comparing their Hall of Fame to anything else is quite ridiculous. There is NO softening towards Pete. He still denies some of the stuff he did even though it's all documented so there's no commissioner in their right mind that will bend on him. The Hall would have to modify their rule because MLB is definitely not changing their stance in our lifetime.
I grew up a Dodgers fan and I EFFING HATED the Reds during the 70s, but I and a lot of my friends had a ton of respect for Johnny Bench. He was the greatest.
That picture of him holding SEVEN baseballs in ONE hand is potentially the most riveting baseball photos of all time in my opinion.
Bench was the greatest catcher I have ever seen .
After Pete Rose, the greatest.
Pete's not a catcher, I realize..
I am A Dodger fan and watching Pete Rose play baseball at Dodger Stadium in the 70s & 80s was awesome. Charlie Hustle!!!
Unquestionably PETE ROSE deserves to be in the HOF. He was one of the best in history - this is just a fact. PUT HIM IN!!!
He bet on the games he was managing.....and he never owned up to it...so no, he doesn't deserve the Hall...you serious?
@@phillipbelk3528 I don't care. He PLAYED at a level of greatest not achieved by virtually all who ever played.
Obviously, none of you know why Pete isn't in baseball or the hall of fame
@@hughkerins3151 Snobs.
@@sms9106 Fact-Pete bet on baseball, Fact-Pete didn't want to be held accountable for his misdeeds. Fact-Pete didn't want the findings of the investigation made public. Fact Pete with a lawyer signed document(s) banning himself from baseball (lifetime ban). Pete doesn't deserve to be in HOF because of his own stupidity.
Pete Rose isn't in because baseball has a weird code and betting on the game itself is somehow the biggest sin bigger than the racism of former inductees steroid use and other cheating and numerous other bad behaviors it's the imaginary shrine of the game itself Pete Rose as a player should be in there but he won't because baseball cannot get over itself
Do you know why betting is such a big sin? It almost collapsed the game.
And you can't get over that your favorite jerk isn't EVER going to be in the Hall. That Clown had a chance to come clean.... But NO, Pete Rose had to have it ALL his way. Have a Drink. 🍼
@@michaelminster9239Yet here we are 6 years after this clip with baseball (and other sports) now promoting gambling and a current baseball star using his translator as a scapegoat for gambling.
I agree with and at the same time Pete was his own worst enemy. His actions and inactions after getting caught gambling have done more damage in keeping him out of the HOF than the gambling itself.
This isn't a moral issue. This is a viability issue. If people have the perception that the game is rigged they won't attend the games and they won't watch on TV, and the money goes away. If MLB is going to survive it has to maintain some credibility, and a zero tolerance policy on betting on baseball is part of that.
Lmao the second they mention or start to mention Hall of Fame, guys like Bench already start rolling their eyes because they know where the interview is going, especially about Rose.
Bench needs to get over it.
@@RedroomStudios Agreed
@@RedroomStudios Bench was an honorable player who did nothing to hurt the game. Pete Rose not so much and he feels baseball owes him something. Grew up in Cincinnati watching these guys play and would always run into them around town all the time. Pete Rose was the only one who would never sign anything the rest of them would sit and chat and sign whatever you wanted. Pete Rose is an ass hat of a person.
@@billsmith6309 so you are using your own personal animus against him as the measuring stick... I dont care about him as a person. the HOF is about recognizing accomplishments on the field. the guy is the all time hits leader in the game. for him to not be represented in the Hall is beyond ridiculous. and if I was Rose I would think the game owed me something too with the stats he has.
He is in the Gambling Hall of Fame though. @@RedroomStudios
I am 73 years old, I remember and saw play Mickey Mantle, Jackie Robinson, Roger Maris, Willie Mays, Willie Stargell, Vick Wertz, Roberto Clemente, Johnny Bench, and many more, all greats. The greatest ball player in my lifetime was Pete Rose. As a ball player, Pete had a great influence on me when I played. His dedication to the game, hustle, abilities put him at the top. He is in MY hall of fame!
Which is where he should be. In yours.
He was far from the greatest ballplayer among those you listed.
Probably one of the best all around players in the last 50 years has to be Rickey henderson. Gets no credit
Pete wasn't even the best player on his team much less in his own era.
ARoberto Clemente was a much better player than Rose.
Few people can truly understand just how bad any addiction can cloud your judgement
So true. Just a few months ago my wife got Addicted to casino gambling and I'll tell you we are paying dearly for now
Rush Ron
The most important thing to remember if your spouse is addicted to anything is not to hang on and hit rock bottom with them. If she slips back into the addiction you have to let her go. Make that very clear to her. I was an addict for almost 20 years and any kindness or sympathy I was shown I took advantage of the person. It’s what we do.
@@chrisj197438 thanks for the advice!
If that’s the case then A-Rod.. Barry Bonds.. Several more are In the hall they cheated also so how’s that?
@@itslildaryl7426 Juiced up batters were going against juiced up pitchers it was an a messed up way kind of fair for them. It was not fair for the players like Chipper Jones who people believe never did anything to enhance their performance. I am not a Braves fan at all but damn if chipper had been on the juice who knows what the records would be
Bench diminished himself taking this absolute stance against Pete Rose going in the HOF. It’s petty. It’s selfish. The real question is WHY BENCH HATES PETE ROSE THAT MUCH.
Pete Rose’s name will live on a lot longer than Johnny Bench.
This is an important point made by Bench. Gambling got him suspended, but his lack of contrition and continued lies made the ban permanent. I was 10 at the time of the scandal. 10 year old me thought it was all a misunderstanding or that he was framed because the great Pete Rose said he "didn't bet on baseball or Cincinnati Red's baseball". Then decades later he comes out with a book to make money off the fact that he did bet on baseball. And this followed years after making money playin the part of a martyr... No. You don't get to get into the HOF. It's not the initial lie or sin. It is the continued failure to make amends except for when it was in his own self interest
Bingo. You just nailed it! 👍
Sometimes people are just too stubborn for their own good.
He DID have a path to the HOF and he stubbornly refused it.
And that's why Bonds won't be in either. No admitting he did wrong, no contrition.
The cover-up is always worse than the crime.
💯👍🏻
Be curious to she what ol' Johnny thinks of the Astros
Be more curious to hear Leo Durocher's opinion.
He's probably disgusted. Disgusted at anything that brings shame onto the game. Johnny Bench is old school in many ways.
Two completely unrelated offenses but I imagine he would have a problem with the Astros as well.
They should all be banned
I am am NO Longer Interested in Johnny Bench's "opinions"
You'd never know he was banned if you're familiar with vintage baseball card prices.
(Which I have several PR cards)
To this day, 8 September 2024 Pete Rose still hold the record for most hits all-time and most singles.
“Wanna bet I’ll get in?” - Pete Rose
LOL
@@rickb.9067 You’re right about that!!!!
Lol
Rose is already in. All time hits record.
He will get in but sad part is it will be when he passes away!!sucks cuz he probably the best hitter of all time
Joe Jackson gets in before Pete
Abbuhl Charles I agree completely! If anyone deserves to be in the HOF, it’s Joe Jackson.
Yes shoeless should get in He was found not guilty But he will never get in there
Yup.
Hell yes for joe
Nope. Regardless if Joe Jackson did or did not take the 5K he knew what was going on.
Imagine Johnny Bench watching a baseball game today along with all the millions of dollars in advertising for MGM Bet, ESPN Bet, Fan Duel, Draft Kings, etc. and telling people with a straight face Pete Rose doesn't deserve to be in the Hall of Fame for gambling.
I'm 44 now and a Texas Rangers/ Houston Astros fan but as a kid Pete rose was my favorite player. Every time I bought a pack of baseball cards his was the one I was looking for
Heh, seemed like every pack i got, he was in it. I never got the George brett card that i wanted (as a Royal he was my 2ndfavorite behind Quisenberry)
How the hell at 44 could Pete have been your favorite player? This guys last good year was 81..
Too bad I was stupid and taped all those Pete rose cards with masking tape in a photo album! Lol
@@grissellevirga9936I mean Boog Powell is one of my favorite baseball players and yet my mother was only 6 years old when he retired.
I’d like to hear Johnny Bench speak on his career, what a waste of time when he has to take questions on Pete Rose!
@James Ratliff Put Pete in the Hall where he belongs and it will stop. That is why these guys keep getting asked the same question because Pete was just that good.
Coat tails? That career?
@James Ratliff He would have been better off with large knees.
@James Ratliff "if he quit 6 seasons earlier" ... well that's not how averages work. Woulda, coulda, shoulda. Bench should thank Pete not assail him. Pete started 6 years earlier than Bench and had 6 more productive years after Bench dropped off. When did Bench drop off? When Pete left the Reds!
@James Ratliff Cherry picking one year of stats is stupid. 99% of baseball fans take Rose over Bench's career. You, like Bench need to deal with it. I prefer Carlton Fisk at catcher....24 years in the league - double the productive years(20 vs 10) and not bashing his team mates over stuff that isn't his business.
If it could be proven that Rose ever - as a player or manager - made a decision or took an action that caused his team to lose in order to win a bet, then okay. Keep him out. But the fact he bet on games should not keep the man who collected more hits than anyone in MLB history out of the Hall.
The fact that he bet on the games he was managing is the rule and the rule states permanently ineligible. Why modify the rule after the fact to accommodate this guy? Why would any league want their players and managers betting on games just to get into some discussion about each decision in every game on whether he did that to win or not?
Read the Dowd Report. It's incredible.
I've been hearing that he only bet on his team to win games. Has this been proven or just came from Pete? Serious question if anybody knows.
@@melchorreyes5251 Unfortunately, they know for a fact he bet on the Reds to lose while he was manager. Read the Dowd Report. It's unbelievable.I still love Pete, but he shouldn't be inducted into the Hall of Fame.
@@melchorreyes5251 I don't know if that's true, but I would not be surprised. Rose was the most competitive guy ever to play the game, and he was all about winning. I just don't believe he would prioritize winning bets over winning ballgames. (BTW, I HATED the guy during his playing days. He was the type of player you loved if he was on your team and couldn't stand if he was the opponent. )
Pete Rose was an outstanding player
That's not the point.
@@NortonsNestMonthly that's exactly the FN POINT
@@ozzymorrison8628 I don't think anyone questions that he should be in based on his ability. He's not in because of the gambling and lying about for so long, not because he wasn't a good enough player
@@ozzymorrison8628 No it's not! He broke the cardinal rule of major league baseball.You can't bet on the games.It's posted in every clubhouse.He broke the rule.Then he lied about it for years,before finally admitting it.
@@snave59 Yes, now that you mentioned it!!!
Disagree. It’s a high level of hypocrisy.
Hall of Fame or not, Pete Rose, in my opinion, was the best contact hitter ever.
He was of his time. You can make a strong argument for Rod Carew, but Pete hit for more power, extra base hits.
@@Amick44 and more hits
@@Amick44 Tony Gwynn.
@@mikesalyers4914 i speaking of his era.
Tony Gwynn and Pete Rose, but I get your point…he’s a hall of famer!
Don't really matter if he's not in the hall . His 4000+ hits are legendary..And will never be broken .
Right on!
Pete belongs in the Hall as a player.
I also thought that. But the thing is he also gambled when he was a player.
I agree. I never liked JB and like him less after this. THEY WERE All gambling on games, nothing new
@@robertdaniels6510
Maybe so. But we must be light in the darkness as Jesus said. Just because “all” are doing it doesn’t mean I need to follow them.
Pete agreed to the terms..
@@istvandejesus Did he bet against his team as a player?
I’d pay to see how Johnny talks to Pete
He never bet on his team. He bet either on the over and under or the spread. He had control of the game to effect the results. Doesn't matter how great 1 person is no one is bigger then the game and it's integrity.
@bryan joiner right. You would watch a sporting event if you thought it was rigged. Allow 1 man to get away with it then you have to allow everyone.
No one is bigger than the integrity of the game, no one!
Integrity of the game? Hahahahaha. Cocaine scandals, Corked bats-Albert Belle, Chris Sabo, Steroids Bonds, Macgure, Sosa..., HCG Clemens, Pettit...., Astros hacking, owner collusion, billion dollar contracts....You lost me there brother.
@@68air
Well the steroid guys are not in. Betting on baseball destroys the games integrity..
2 things... Steroids do not help your hand eye coordination to hit the ball and if prescribed for an injury players can use them. 2nd... For all we know hank aaron and other players used steroids? We will never know because baseball didnt test for it back then. Anyways pete should be in the HOF he bet on his team to win not like he was shaving runs
@@jumpmasterpadre9335 can u prove they werent taking steroids b4 baseball tested for them? No, u cant! So.... Go fuck yourself
Johnny just going to forget everybody was using uppers supplied by the team in his day. Integrity of the game is a joke.
Love Jonny Bench, but to say "if you have to tell Your Kids that there are No Rules in Baseball"; PLEASE! HOW ABOUT STERIODS, ALL THE OTHER PLAYERS (PITCHERS ESPECIALLY) AND TEAMS and Have CHEATED "UNDER MLS "RULES". WHAT A JOKE!
Pete had a gambling problem, that spilled over into his job later in life. The hall of Fame would be nice, but his stats speaks for itself. More hits than any player in the history of the game. He's in his own hall of Fame, that's good enough and maybe even better. Pete Rose doesn't need the Baseball Hall of Fame. They need him, because it's not truly a Hall of Fame without him.
Bullshit.
He is a Cheater, he gambled on the game as a Player & a Manager, 1 Rule in Baseball, Don't gamble on it.
@@Rspenesmit He only got caught.... many many players bet on baseball.
Bullshit
Calling BS. I think PR should be inducted for the fans and he should not get to participate in the ceremony or gain entrance to the building - ever. Having said that, his absence from the HoF doesn’t diminish it to the point of irrelevance. Not even close.
On a semi related note, they should stop this stupid crap about Bonds, McGwire, A-Rod etc. if PEDs were pervasive in the sport (which most people agree was the case), then suspected users would have to pass the test of all HoF nominees, namely: do they stand a cut above those in their era? In other words, was Bonds better than the juiced pitcher he faced or the juiced OFer that tried to catch his line drive to the gap (or who watched his ball fly over the wall)? Answer is “yes”, definitively so!
Johnny Bench brings up a good point that most of us had forgotten. Pete Rose had a chance to be forgiven by admitting to sports betting, and that he bet on Reds games, but he kept denying it, and claiming innocence. That’s why he’s not given a second chance to redeem himself, or get in the Hall.
If he was a wife beater he'd be in !!
He bet on winning. Who cares, bench is a pussy.
And I could care less if he "repents", the HoF shouldn't be about morality, it should be about baseball ability. I don't care if you murdered your family, if you have the most hits in MLB history, you deserve to get in. This isn't "who's the best person", it's "who's the best player".
That's not entirely true. I, and many others, are quite sure Bart Giamatti never intended for this to be carried out for so long, nor do I think he was intending to make an example out of Pete Rose. Supposedly they were working something out to smooth everything over. Unfortunately no one foresaw Giamatti dying less than a year after assuming commissionership, and also unfortunately, Bud Selig is an asshole.
Oh how wrong you are!@@kidzbop38isstraightfire92
As a HUGE Cardinals and Ted Simmons fan, I have nothing but respect for Johnny Bench.
Both Ted Simmons & Johnny Bench played by the rules & men of high integrity who excelled on the field. Pete excelled but has little integrity and placed himself above the Rules. He only belongs in the Hall of SHAME.
Let him in he served his sentence. Can't forget how great his talent was and the records he accomplished...
Thing is, he didn’t serve his sentence. He had the chance and decided not to take it. He decided to take a chance, was found guilty, and now has to accept the consequences of his actions, including the lifetime ban because he broke the one rule that is not to be broken in baseball.
If you are saying someone should be above the rules then the next time Mike Trout questions a strike call even if video shows it to be a strike, should we change it to a ball because Mike Trout is the greatest player today? Yes, I know the previous sentence is ridiculous but the rules apply to all, no matter how great they are.
Pete Rose lied for years. He has shown no remorse and only apologized and admitted to what he did when it became obvious MLB would not budge or give in, as well they should not. No one is above the rules.
his sentence is a lifetime ban so no he hasent served his sentence
@@GetRidOfCivilAssetForfeiture You rule! I don't know how people don't see what you see. You make perfect sense.
@@assassin415 I couldn't have said it better myself. He is lucky that baseball even gave him any parole hearings for what he did.
If were Pete I would accept privately and decline openly on social media and national news , then walk off into the sun set. 😎
If you bet on baseball, you are banned for life. No exceptions. No second chances. What part of that don't some people get?
Yeah & MLB happily partners with gambling entity DraftKings every season now! What part of that don't YOU get! MLB is a shame thanks to Selig/Manfred
@@paolo-n2000 , But players, coaches and managers are STILL NOT allowed to bet on baseball under penalty of a lifetime ban. Can't you see how damaging it would be to baseball if we let those so close to the game bet on the games?
Bench is 100% correct. For so many reasons.
Bench is gay and Pete knew it. That’s why he doesn’t like Pete. It’s true
Their both Gay but Rose Dumped bench first AND..... Bench had to be the catcer on AND OFF the field. 🤕
Pete Rose was a great thug. The same aberrant personality that contributed to his playing prowess also cost him his Hall of Fame hopes.
Yup, pride goeth before a fall.
I'm not sure "thug" is the best description when referring to Pete Rose.
@@pb12661 Well, I am, so are we clear now?
@@pb12661 It may not be but the use of words in a conversation are always proportionate to an individuals access and understanding of language and vocabulary skills.
Does it really matter anymore if he's in the HoF or not? Not being in is more of a boom for him than if he was. Things have been so watered down lately with some of the recent inductees (good players, not great, who just got in) that being in the HoF is devalued.
see thats where they lose me on keeping pete out of hall of fame. so 30 years now of being banned, but they wouldve let him in if he would have signed a piece of paper
Joe Jackson is over 100 years ago, and the case against him is far flimsier than Pete's. I can't see them ever letting Rose in if they still won't consider Jackson.
@@davidjorgensen877 shoeless joe jackson hasn’t been the all time hits leader for the last 35 years either
@@spence7985 He would have been if he wasn't thrown out of baseball during his playing days. Even Pete Rose said Joe Jackson was a better player than himself. Regardless, Pete saw what they did to Joe but Pete was too thickheaded to think he'd never get caught and he knew what the penalty was going to be. When the time comes, he and Joe can talk all about it and how they disgraced the game and the one thing that they both loved.
@@roland7584 here’s the difference between Joe and Pete. Pete was retired from playing. Joe did it while CURRENTLY playing
He was still managing, and the investigation never went into Pete's playing days, although they had evidence that he did bet while he was a player/manger but they never went into investigating that evidence because they already had enough evidence on him as a manager and the same rule applied...bet on your team and you're going to be banned for life.
So ridiculous. They forgot to mention that a ton of Pete Rose's memorabilia is already in the Basement Hall of Fame.
Bench is so jealous of Rose. Always has been. He hates that Rose is more loved than him in Cincinnati. Rose should obviously be in the hof.
Absolutely the greatest catcher in my lifetime, nobody else comes close.
My vote goes to Pudge Rodriguez
And Pete was the greatest on the field!
It don’t matter if he gets in... he will always be talked about.. you made him infamous... on top of his 4K plus hits....
Bench is right. Rose should not be in the Hall of Fame.
..BS ...Pete should be in the HOF ...no one's perfect... including J Bench
He didn't bet on baseball thats the difference he couldn't stop moved to Vegas lol he's an addict!
Did Johnny bet on his own team?
Pete's Arrogance & Pride stood in the Way! His attitude hadn't changed 1 Bit Either!
I didn't see it as arrogance. Pete was just Pete. There r 2:51 very few people who met him outside of baseball who say that he wasn't one of the nicest most outgoing people they ever met. He just couldn't own up he screwed up big time. He really only hurt himself. Put all of that aside Pete gave 110 percent on the field!!!
I was referring to his attitude towards the MSM in uniform an after ⚾ I do think 1 day they will let him in? But not for awhile. 🤔@@nancyjones9925
I guess Johnny Bench is the moral compass for everyone in the hall of fame. Johnny there are criminals, adulterers, and guys on steroids etc.. you are out of your mind if you dont think Pete Rose should be in the hall of fame.
Pete Rose is already in the Hall of Fame . All his uniforms and stories are there. He just didn’t get a plaque
That is a fact Michael. He is in the Cincinnati Reds Hall of Fame as well. That is a fact. This back and forth BS is so played out. The facts are what matter. Everything else is just personal feelings, opinions and beliefs.
Why block his face with the microphone? Move the mic or move the camera.
was thinking the same thing. This is RIDICULOUS. It really made my blood boil...i think they do it on purpose to annoy us.
Pete Rose is bigger than the hall of fame
Funny story...my family bumped into Johnny Bench when I was coming out of a surgery. I was loaded up on pain meds but I knew I recognized him. I just couldn't figure out how. I asked my wife to ask him and she hesitantly asked him if he knew me. He graciously admitted who he was. We have two photos he let us take as a group with him. Such a class act.
Pete ( "Charlie Hustle") Rose, was one of the greatest players in his generation ! Him and the "Big Red Machine" were loved by their fans, and feared by all the other teams ! In the hall or not, Pete Rose will still be loved !!
Well. Here we are. Pete Rose has served his lifetime ban.
I love Pete. But Johnnys quote about going to your kids and saying there’s no more rules hits hard and he’s exactly right
thats a petty emotional ploy. none of that changes Rose's staggering accomplishments on the field.
@@RedroomStudios I don't care about his stats. Actually, nno one really does. His name and his legacy are that of a liar and a cheat.
Seriously, you can't bring up his name without the discussion going to his dishonesty. And no stat line can change THAT.
@@charlesm7589 "no one cares about his stats"... oh really? then why on every discussion about him on youtube videos are the opinions split about 50/50? you are free to disagree with me and others but dont try to blow smoke up my ass that I'm the only one with this opinion.
Give me a decent person over a great athlete any day. Pete was the latter not the former.
Loved Pete Rose back in the day. Lost all respect when he was caught gambling. Doesn't matter to me if he's in the HOF or not.
What is the mentality behind "I lost all respect....". Do you think you're Pete Rose's mother (in law) or what?
@@xxxYYZxxx No Pete. Stop trolling. We are not related. You can gamble. It's all ok to do now
Pete Rose was a great player. He earned that on the field. You can vote against him, but you can't change the fact that he was GREAT.
I agree with Johnny 100%. I've been saying this for years. Had Rose come right out and admitted what he did and humbled himself and said he had a gambling problem all would have been forgiven and he'd have been in the hall for a while now but no, he chose to be an ass about it.
Pete Rose doesn’t need a bust in the HOF. He’s HOF to anyone that knows the game. RIP brother.
Lots of legendary bands are not in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, who cares! They are still amazing and legendary!
Pete Rose should be in the Hall of Fame! There was nobody better nor anyone who played harder. He gave everything to the game. He was also so entertaining.
Oh rub some Blue Emu on it John.
Harland Waters ...Johnny certainly is quite the hemorrhoid.
@Harland Waters
Your name sb Jack Cass.
@@nicks7690
Yeah. You're Nick Sphincter.
TheBatugan77 👈🏻 look at this Harland... Johnny Bench’s hemorrhoid can type!
Nick S lmao Nick Lol 😂
I personally don't like Pete Rose. He was always a "Look at me guy" instead of a true team player. And of course, he's guilty of gambling. That said, there are ballplayers who are in the Hall of Fame who've done much the same, and even worse. We know about White Supremacists like Ty Cobb, Rogers Hornsby, etc. Cap Anson was a pedophile... marrying a child who was only 13 yrs old when he was 23! The list is endless. You mean to tell me those guys deserve to be in the "Hall" and not Pete? Because if you're going to debate to me about the integrity of the game, then we'd have to remove a fair share of those players already in!
You're arguing apples and oranges. MLB doesn't police player's actions outside the game. You can question whether it should or not, but that's a different debate. Pete's transgression stands apart from the others you listed because it was a direct violation of league rules. Like JB said, do rules matter or don't they? Without them, there is no game.
I really don’t like players like Bench that suck up the company line. Pete Rose absolutely deserves to be in the Hall of Fame. There’s so many unscrupulous characters that ended up in jail, beat their wives… That are sitting in the Hall of Fame.
Couldn't agree More.
No more rules, when baseball knowingly juiced it's players then tried to act like that wasn't the case. Pete Rose bet on himself to WIN, he wasn't shaving runs or throwing games he was performing and doing it well. Not a damn thing wrong with that!
Lefty Rosenthal agrees
@@KoolT and now with Caesars and the white Sox official partners. No hypocrisy at all there
@@KoolT LOL..exactly right
He always owed his bookies money. We don't know how his bets affected the games. Only he knows. The only thing we do know is there was a rule in place that if you bet on your team, you will be permanently banned. If he ever missed a game where he didn't bet on the Reds, that's basically a bet against them. Maybe the night before he tried to win so badly because he did have a bet that he sacrificed the win for the next game which is tainting the game. That's why players in control of games should never be able to bet on games. Thank you MLB for doing the right thing.
@@roland7584 MLB now officially in cahoots with casinos and players with asterisks next to their name in Cooperstown but Charlie Hustle still excluded. All sorts of right thing going on there👍
Rose did nothing to negatively detract from the sport! Such as cheating, drugs, alcohol, sexual or physical abuse like so many have been caught doing! Punishing him for gambling is tantamount to a cop giving you a speeding ticket for 5 mph over while a car full of drunk, high, popular kids speeds by doing 90 mph over! These powers that be i'm sure did much worse! He who is without sin cast the first stone! This needs to be undone! Rose is one of the GOATS!
Your missing the point, they wanted him to confess. If he did, he's in. He's a stubborn prick.
👍👍
Gambling on your own team is in fact CHEATING, and in a major way. The consensus at the time of the investigation was that he not only bet on his team to win, but also to lose. The investigation was ended as soon as it was about to tackle that question. He changed his story too many times after too many false denials; all which he had to flip-flop on once proof of guilt was shown. There's not a reason in this world to take him at his word on this matter.
I don’t blame for Johnny saying no to Pete either.
I was his caddie for a few years and let me tell you when they say be careful of meeting your heroes, they were right.
Caddy to Bench or Rose?
Yes
I grew up in cincy in the 60s-70s. Pete was one of the best ballplayers of all time, but not a very good human. I hope he gets his life together.
Well , he never answered you , so I guess he was lying @@TheBobbybbc
You can be a criminal in many ways breaking rules but still be a HOF member. Tell you kids that Johnny.
Than neither should you Johnny
You have to love the controversy. Rose deserves the HOF as a player, there was never a question, first ballot. But gambling on the team you manage is zero tolerance. Pete isn't the smartest tool in the shed (except his baseball instincts are 200 IQ), and so that provides some forgiveness, but still. He was involved with gangsters, bet heavily. When your life or at least fortune may depend on the outcome of a single game, you overuse your best pitcher or some way use your ability as a manager to put extra emphasis on winning a single game when what you need to think about is the season. Or beat the point spread, you put in your best reliever in a non-save situation. On and on and on. If he didn't do that, the point is he was incentivized to do this.
When Bench played for the Red’s I was a fan and in fact a fan of all the Reds. I KNOW for a fact that the majority of Red’s players would vote for Pete. The truth is that Bench is jealous of Pete and has been for years. Bench KNOWS damn well Rose did not bet on ball games during his playing years and that IS the difference but Bench refuses to acknowledge. During his playing years Rose was clean and trust me THEY DUG DEEP IN THEIR SEARCH to prove differently but found nada. Based on the fact Rose broke records during his playing years should be more than enough to recognize Rose in Baseball HOF and Mention that he is banned from Base Ball as a manager.
The Catchers see all ! Bench is correct ✅ ⚾️
I agree with Johnny Bench 110%; PETE ROSE MUST NEVER, EVER BE IN THE HALL OF FAME!!!🥰😍🤩❤️❤️❤️
You can't go over 100% Einstein
Thank you johnny Bench
Sure he broke the rules.. But you can't keep the greatest Hitter in the history of the game out because he broke some rules... The punishment doesn't fit the crime!
I've never heard he bet against his team to lose, that would be a crime to fit the punishment...
Let's just say the Reds had a 3 game series over the weekend. Pete knows the rotation coming into the weekend, so he feels he has a great chance the Reds will win Saturday. So...first he doesn't bet Friday's game, or maybe he puts on a small wager just because he loves action. On Friday, in a close game, he decides not to use a particular reliever or 2 because he wants them fresh in case they are needed for Saturday's game. On Saturday, he loads up on the Reds for his bet. After a few times doing this, the bookies start catching on to the betting pattern, and thus they now have important information for the betting world. I hope this helps explain why betting on these games is horrible for any sport when you have control of the game as a manager or as a player. The punishment certainly fits the crime in this case, and it was written in every clubhouse. It's a shame he spent so many waking hours studying what to bet on instead of trying to manage that team to a World Series. The team was in place to win multiple championships, so at least when he was finally gone, they had a manager purely focused on winning and amazingly they went wire to wire without him betting from his office or the dugout 5 minutes before game time.
The Reds were so great back in the day!
You’re right about that!!!!
The starting 8 of the 1975-1976 Big Red Machine was the greatest team of all time. They could beat you many ways.
@@jamesanthony5681 Agreed!!!!
@@jamesanthony5681 The A's were better and the Yankees won two World Series in the 70's too
@@jamesanthony5681 The Yankees are the greatest team of all time
Johnny Bench and 90% of the hall of famers are scrubs compared to Pete Rose.
Johnny bench a scrub?? He's a top 2 catcher of all time foh
@@nickpeitchev7763 Johnny hit .267, had less and half the hits as Rose and never won a title without Rose. So in comparison he was scrub. Rose was a good fielder too and played multiple positions.
@@PigeonSpeaks he was a catcher smh u really are dense
Fail
Never mind that OTHER self-righteous jerk from the Reds..... 90% of the HOF are Scrubs???? Right, Lay off the model glue, Bubba.
As a Padre fan... or even just a baseball fan in general, I admire Tony Gwynn a LOT more than Rose. Tony would NEVER bet on baseball and he didn't do steroids either. He had so much more integrity than that. My admiration for Pete dropped by half after the gambling fiasco.
Rose is a failure at the bigger game called life.
Admiration might drop but u can't deny what a great player he was!
@@nancyjones9925 Absolutely. One of the greatest of all time. I watched him play many times.
@@nancyjones9925
I take stock of a man’s conscience before I make myself answerable to his athletic exploits. No point in being great at baseball if you are terrible at manhood.
Yes Pete Rose should of come clean years ago.Even convicted felon’s and murder’s are given second chance.All time hits leader a record that will probably never be broken put the man in the HOF!!!!
Pete was in jail for this? OMG what have I missed over the last 30 years.
who need a friend like Johnny Bench?
A straight shooter is always helpful
exactly. what a POS. Used to love the guy as a BB player. He could have backed a "friend"/teammate and gave legit reasons why he should get in but he choses to act like a holier than thou azzhat and throw Pete under the bus. What a jerk. I'm sure all his former wives feel the same.
So, he should lie?
No One
@@pb12661 he kinda always came off that way to me.
Bench used to be my favorite player when I was a kid. totally disagree with his hardline stance against Rose. the guys numbers and ability on the field should be recognized in the HOF.
Bench got a divorce and his ex wife was asked about Bench. She said "Johnny Bench may be a hall of fame baseball player but in the bedroom he is a minor leaguer"
@William Gullett uhhh okay?? I don’t see how that’s relevant.
@@TheMW2informer its not, its just a quote about Bench
So she's a bitter bitch. What's new?
I've heard that cheap shot from numerous women so many times I think they pretty much all say that about their exes.
@@onemoremisfit I'm sure other women use it but only the ones whose ex husband's are in the Hall of Fame. Otherwise it wouldnt make sense
What would I tell my kids? If there was one athlete in baseball that I would want them to model their intensity, effort and love for the game after it would be Pete Rose.
I assume we should be ok with the college point shaving scandals mover the years as well?
I would suggest Stan Musial as a model. Just as dedicated as Rose but he has integrity and class, which Rose didn't think mattered.
@@wyldebyll3089 Oh get over yourself lol. The man deserves to be in the Hall. End of story.
@@wyldebyll3089 Point taken. Nonetheless, I could watch video of Rose’s highlights and hear him talk about baseball for hours.
Then your values are warped. Pete Rose is an example of bad moral character.
Here we are in 2024 where MLB’s official sports betting partner is FanDuel…MLB had a window to do the right thing. RIP Pete Rose
Go home and tell your kids if you break a rule there is no forgiveness only punishment.
no, numbnuts,if you break a rule there's consequences for your actions. your job as a parent is to be a mentor, an example, not a apologist beta male
Nothing to do with forgiveness.
@@billmoyer3254 No, dumbass, if your kids break a rule they get punished, but you eventually do forgive and move on. Pete has been punished for 30 years. That's how real men handle it. Beta males get all in their feelings and butthurt and don't want to move on.
They offered Pete a path to forgiveness, and he threw it away.
Forgiveness does not mean no punishment or taking away the punishment.
He called into question the integrity of the game. Unlike drug use or alcoholism, gambling on the game affects the game itself. It doesn’t just bring shame on one person. If players/managers bet on games, the very outcome of games and playoffs are in doubt. Baseball becomes like professional wrestling - just a scripted soap opera. I spent 37 years in baseball as a ML scout and I am firmly in the “No” category for Rose’s HOF eligibility.
So you are responsible for turning a blind eye to the PED era. Nice integrity there!
Apparently we can just ignore his numbers? Bull.
He broke the rules, it's as simple as that. There's no argument, period
Others Broke rules. But hey drugs are ok to use in the MLB.
@@toyman81 tell it to the commish
toyman81 Not all rules that are broken are created equal. Betting artificially alters the outcome of the game. You can control more of the outcome of the game through betting than with PEDs. And as a manager, you even have more control if you’re betting on the game. It’s the ultimate sin for a reason. It might as well be the WWE if you’re going to do that.
So fine him. Not _any_ punishment suits any broken rule. I’m sure you’ve never broken a rule in your life stonethrower
Johny was a great player! Being a pirates fan I didn't like him but I always respected his talent! I believe he had the most home runs in MLB during the 70s!
I just looked it up. he was apparently 3rd behind Willie Stargell and Reggie Jackson.
Pete Rose is in every fans Hall of Fame anyway. Yes, what he did was stupid, and he has regretted it countless times, but he is one of the top all-time great players. Let me write that one word again ... "Players." He belongs in the HOF as a player. What he did came later. O.J. Simpson is still in the NFL Hall of Fame, and what he did was FAR worse than what Pete Rose did. Pete Rose = HOF!
Being a hardcore Dodger fan in the 70's, I hated Rose & the Reds, but to keep a guy/rose that had more hits, than anyone that has ever played the game, is just stupid, the HOF is for what the players did On the field, not off. btw the 1919 white soxs players took money to Lose, aka to take a dive like in boxing.
And none of them are in. No proof that Shoeless Joe Jackson threw any games and he is not in either. His lying and lack of contrition are big reasons he is not in
You MoFo's are dense, his gambling addiction made him untrustworthy and threatened the integrity of the game. You can't have a manager betting on his own sport, there would be no way to know if his on field decisions were gambling based or what is best for the team in that situation.
he bet they would win, not much else you can take from that except he wasnt going to lose on purpose
@scrub44 Stop hanging onto childhood dreams, he also said he did not bet as a player but that was proven untrue. You cannot take him at his word, and yes there is proof that he bet against his own team
saying theres proof is like me saying theres proof of bigfoot, wheres the proof?@@personanongrata7135
Hey Johnny Bench bet you didn't mind Pete when he was helping you win that World Series did you?
@@Bidwellz9 In his autobiography My Prison Without Bars, published by Rodale Press on January 8, 2004, Rose finally admitted publicly to betting on baseball games and other sports while playing for and managing the Reds. He also admitted to betting on Reds games,
This is such BS. Pete Rose doesn't own me anything. He surely doesn't owe these guys anything. Pete Rose was a legend, with flaws. Just like everything else. A million players have done a million bad things, and nobody cares. I'd pick Pete Rose as a friend and a player everyday of the week over Jonny Bench.
As I watch MLB Network and see the sports betting odds scrolling across the bottom of the screen, see and hear the MLB broadcast personalities promoting fantasy sports betting on air, and see sports gambling companies as major sponsors of MLB; it's time to reinstate Pete Rose and "Shoeless" Joe Jackson and induct them into the Hall of Fame. If MLB is going to actively and blatantly encourage people to bet money on MLB games by promoting sports gambling in an invasive manner, what Pete and Joe did doesn't matter anymore.
Bet offerings are for public, not for active players or managers lol
Sounds to me like he’s saying “he makes us look bad” when his remarks mean “his records make us look bad”. Cmon Johnny. I loved Bench and hated Rose growing up...my how things change.
Mr morality john bench...same guy that cheats on his wife......with men...true story...im a cincy boy born and raised...no one likes him here
Also he has illegitimate kids that he ignores. Hes a punk
@@orbonds3603 Johnny Bench bangs dudes?! I don't need details, but where did that come from?
@@dinoirish5984 probably on a Pete Rose fanboy site
@@dinoirish5984 its kinda been a rumor around Cincy for years
Maybe he didn't deserve it back then but he won hundred percent deserves it now because of the way gambling is now Guys that would have never talked about gambling on TV are talking about it like it's a walk in the park You can't have both There Should not be a question about Pete rose getting in nobody should question it put him in today It will be the biggest crowd Cooperstown as ever had Do it before the poor man dies
Bench rather have all these baseball players that used Steroids in the hall of fame then Rose be in for gambling.yes i know what rose did but still he deserves the hall of fame
You have a link to Bench supporting Bonds, Mac, Sosa, etc. for the Hall?
Hypocrisy on Johnny Bench part..
@@juanccifuentes7033 Why? did Bench bet on baseball?
@@bauerj3398 He actually dident, but he was not as good as Pete Rose, he was jealous of him.
@@bauerj3398 plus the hipocricy in baseball is hilarious, loom at the astros, they got caught cheating n kept their trophy, and i can assure you 1 or 2 of those players will get in..
If all human beings aren't allowed in the BASEBALL Hall of Fame on the merit of their PLAY, then none of them should be. A GOOD criminal is excellent at covering tracks. A good human, by appearances, too. Even in the HUMAN Hall of Fame, the best & worst must be respresented. These things aren't for us to judge. If there ISN'T a heaven, we'll never really know what was real & good. We can only go on what we KNOW, and the best serial killers die free men. Honouring living legends is a futile, unfair, inadequate illusion. What I know, and others, about Johnny Bench I'll keep to myself & take to the grave. You all know what you did. Don't think someone else doesn't. Nanny cams have been around since before you were born. Heat sensitive satellite camera technology too. Stop the crucifixion. Stop the judgement. Put down the stone. Pull out the board. Or be judged by your own standard. Pete's in or no one is. My HOF is the one that matters to me...it's got all of them in there. The bad THINGS they did, I may point out to my kids as a warning & teaching moment, for their growth. Any other attitude or spirit is not useful or helpful. It's just hypocrisy. Bench may not be there without Rose. We'll never know.
Johnny Bench is the greatest catcher, ever. Without Rose he’d still be in the HOF, easily. Rose was a great, great player but that Big Red Machine would still have won (harder to do but they would have done it). Rose is too stubborn.
@@daveokeefe31We'll never know...
A great listen and watch. What a Legend who is absolutely right here.
I love Pete, Bench is one of the best hitting catchers of the 70’s. Pete is the greatest hitter ever to play the game and if Pete didn’t come to Philly we never would have won it all in 1980. Pete Rose is on a way higher level than Bench....