@@hipponln5190 keep in mind the youtuber that made the vid takes bolter caliber from "canon" and in canon the bolter is just 75cal wich is smaller than 50cal so just like an ak round more or less
@@aguspuig6615 the boltgun is .75 caliber that mean 19,05 mm with percing armor and explosive, im sure at 85 % the .50 caliber is the human bolter, the imperium made a smaller bolter for sister of battle and guardsmen for use it to destroy the stronger enemy thier weapon look like bolter junior or maybe its just the pisto bolter
I love this. Top tier Jedi might equal one given force mastery, being able to stop shots etc. but absolutely agree about base level Jedi. The only representation we have is the battle of geonosis.
Top tier Jedi (or Sith) would be interesting. They definitely have the tools to win, but the fact that they can't deflect bolter rounds would be a big hurdle. Sith would have an easier time, if they can use Force Lightning. But a Jedi using Force Push... Astartes weigh about a ton in armor.
@@MarcusVance Jacen solo casually swept away several tons worth of rubble. And that's before turning to the dark side. A jedi knight during the clone wars halted an entire venator star destroyer from falling. A padawan halted four hail fire missiles. I know you're going with canon, but you should clarify next time.
@@MarcusVance if I recall the bolted is explosive, but solid slugs still. Would a lightsaber not melt them like they do in Legends? I guess question is would they explosive detonate with lightsaber melt. Also could force push, push back bolster rounds? 🤔
@@TheJDKX I do believe bolt rounds (or atleast certain variants) can be timed for the explosion meaning deflection outside of force doesn’t matter much, though realistically even a normal bullet wouldn’t be exposed to a light saber long enough to melt going through it.
Honestly I think it would take couple more base level Jedi to fight an unnamed Astartes. This comes from the fact that if this Astartes is wielding a bolter and chainsword they would probably knock out multiple Jedi within the first few seconds as shown by how slug throwers take them out fairly well and a bolter is kinda similar. Personally I think the number would be around 20 Jedi as long as they also use force powers
@@evanfrazee7200 I'd say the sword would do a little more than jack as it both inspires fear as well as the fact that with enough skill and the Astartes could just bypass a lightsaber and slice up a Jedi
@@evanfrazee7200 Ceramite has resistance to energy weapons, Astartes arsenal are mostly made from them, it may damage the Chainsword but the sheer weight and mass of it will cleave the Jedi in two. FYI a single Lightning Claw is actually 70kg in weight. (Iron Snakes Novel)
I don't feel like it's entirely fair to say Jedi are as wear on average, because them being killed by the clones was a surprise. They were killed by what they perceived to be friendlies. Jedi that were aware of what was going on lived for at least a few years longer.
I would like to bring up that in both situations, the jedi were severely outnumbered. It doesn't matter how good you are at deflecting blaster shots if your being shot at by 30 hostiles. Not to mention the surprise factor the clones had going for them and the fact that at the battle of geonosis most of the jedi wouldn't have seen combat recently if at all. Other than that, great video!
The Jedi precognition isn’t constant (snipers were an affective way of killing Jedi), the Jedi had fought are war with these clones laughed with the clones and died with the clones, the Jedi completely trusted the clones, and the hostile intent went from zero to one hundred in an instant. most Jedi got shot in the back so using that as an example against them is massively underselling them.
If that astartes goes down theres a chance he will come back as an angry walking sarcophagus with gatling guns, rocket launchers, plasma cannons, and flamethrowers
Remember that scene in the Astartes animation where they punch the tech priest's head so hard it explodes? Yeah that's basically how your average jedi would stack up lol
The thing is: as soon as a single librarian is involved, the force can be completely taken out of the picture, because they can just shut it down. Additionally, mind tricks don't work on them due to strong psychic resistance.
That sounds very reasonable, and a great video 👍 Would you consider a video on how many astartes it would take to kill a sith lord like darth bane (or a less powerful one) solely in combat? And vice versa
Sith have an edge due to more damaging abilities like Force Lightning. But even they aren't prepared for mass combat. Technically Space Marines aren't either-not being the best front line troops against the brunt of an enemy force-but they'd be better.
@@MarcusVanceLord Teluk Kord would like to have a word on that assessment. Less powerful definitely needs to be established, as if one of the ancient Sith Masters from pre republic era is involved and learns of the impending battle/invasion through the common ability of foresight or sith ritual, then I don't know of any size of force of marines that could handle that? Force Storm? Deadly sight? If they invade from space then say screw it and make a sun go supernova? Or be Nihlus and look at the Marines and just think of dinner. Or find their planet and also think of dinner. Hard to shoot a body that is ethereal. Or his buddy Sion who is in too much pain to actually die. The ancient Sith's entire culture, and philosophy was based on war and gaining power. It was why the title of dark lord of the sith was so coveted.
@@bmxdoe after reading about the 5 generic types of Pykers as well as a brief summary of their powers, I do not think even an army or the emperor of the Psykers would be able to handle it. All it would take is one of them to fall to daemonic possession and their hive mind may end up becoming the biggest flaw. Mother Talzen briefly crippled Dooku through a night sister ritual, based off of old sith rituals. Palpatine was able to send visions of a false future to Anakin from across the galaxy, someone who would be sensitive to these visions in a fundamental way due to the insane connection to force, probably similar to an always active side psychic ability. If he corrupts say an inquisitor thinking he is/will be possessed, I did not read what happens if they feel possession is approaching, however if their inclination is self sacrifice to protect the link to the emperor... Then I don't believe there would even be a battle, the potential disorder of seeing your strongest warriors becoming corrupted would do to the moral of the units,, or if that fear and increased need/desire for power would attract actual possession. The most interesting thing would be psychic vs the force. Force allows you to read minds like a telepath, and Palpatine alone hid under the radar from over a thousand Jedi some of the strongest of the age, and flew under all suspicion until the last moment. And if foresight is not a thing for the Psykers which I could not find much (again brief search sorry about that) then again, don't know how they even make it to the battle. Passed by a solar system on the way to Coruscant? Palpatine turns the sun into a nuclear fire cracker. Using portals to get there? Materialize into an ongoing force Storm. Run into a hungry Nihlus and they are a drive through meal and nothing more. And with the title of Lord of Hunger... Hope the emperor sends a fat force. I do apologize if the information is not wholly accurate, most of this was gathered from the fandom page for Warhammer. Seemed like the most reliable source for information but cannot be sure as not familiar with the lore at all to spot inconsistencies.
Yep, Star Wars to 40k comparisons somehow constantly does Star Wars dirty despite the lore on the way things are being fairly comparable to get a fair middle ground between the two worlds. An example of this would be the way Blasters work, they're exactly like Tau Pulse Rifles, so it would be fair to say then that Clones would be using Tau rules if combat efficacy were to be measured with a modicum of established metrics rather than bias.
Really think it needs to be stressed that jedi wouldn't even be much of an unknown factor to them. Consider the eldar, specifically warlocks. They have psychic powers that let them see the future and use it during battle, can throw lightning around, manipulate fate, carry a sword that can cleave through power armor pretty easily and can pretty easily deliver a mortal wound to an astartes, pack a shuriken pistol, and wear armor that manipulates fate to guide attacks away from them. They also have superhuman agility, reflexes, and process information faster than humans could dream of. None of this stops space marines from killing warlocks. And yeah, warlocks can kill space marines too, but keep in mind all the stuff listed that goes beyond "space magic and sword that can cut through basically anything". And these eldar are trained specifically to fight in war. They are not a peace keeping force, they are there to kill the enemies of the eldar people. And a warlock not only has prior combat experience from their time as an aspect warrior, their long lives means they have plenty of time to hone their skills. They already know how to fight Jedi without ever having met one before.
If you know anything about bioshock. I would love to see how the 5 variants of big daddy would fair up against one astartes in a battle then how a character like subject delta would fair as he is the main protagonist of bioshock 2 and in the game, he's taken on quite a bit for being a "prototype" big daddy
Big Daddy's do seem to be a slow hulking type, mainly used against fleshy, squishy drug addicts, not to mention their weaponry and armor are made of inferior material like steel, and astartes are faster, faster reflexes, better weaponry and better armor, but then again there's the fact tht i don't know that much about Astartes and that's just if it's one on one
@@loreweed8882 um no? Splicers have increased durability due to the Adam splicing and gene manipulation. A normal lead head is able to take a few .50 machine gun rounds to the dome before going down. Subject delta survived a torpedo exploding him out of a rail car and it only knocked him out. Subject sigma survived a entire hallway being blown up on him and he survived it after pushing off around 3 tons of support steel of his body under water and the later models of big daddy such as the bouncer can cut through diamond hard rock. The big daddies would hold their own against astartes as their metal armor is like 4 inches thick of copper and steel and the "fabric" portions are that of Kevlar and they would able to push the astartes around with a bit of force and effort because they are the heavy equipment of the rapture.
It really depends how the fight starts If the jedi can surprise the astrates, one swing and it's over basically But if it's face to face, since jedis can't throw back the bullets etc, it would probably take more than just 15 jedi It's not really a question of "power" It's a question of battle scenario
@@adanfuenets3148 bolster rounds go WAY faster than blaster rounds or even slugs etc And I doubt à jedi will be able to force field so many explosive can sized rocket propelled rounds being shot so quickly
The Astartes videos that were up before GW seized them displayed their approach to telekinesis quite well, I recommend taking a look if you can find it still. Edit: Found it! ruclips.net/video/DVXEYksoE6c/видео.html skip to about 3:50
I like in the Astartes animation where five of them were taking on 2 psykers (basically Jedi). They got it done. Bolters would be a bad weapon to use against Jedi because of the fact they’re assault rifles that fire miniature rockets, and a Jedi could maybe force deflect a few…though writing that out they probably couldn’t block ALL of a salvo coming their way, and they got something faster and stronger than a Wookiee barreling down on them screaming really, REALLY loudly as they draw a combat knife bigger than a sword for a normal person.
The force cant effect the astartes directly, they cant be force choked or pushed. Weapons with slugs cant be deflected since the slugs will just be burned and possibly even harm a jedi, Ive seen a comic panel where obi wan had to retreat after trying to deflect a slug from a gun and to top it all off, astartes bolter rounds explode.
It also depends on range and load out. If the Astartes has more than 60 ft between him and the Jedi, as well as a trusty bolter, the jedi are going to get slapped. Most of them aren't powerful enough to curve a projectile mid-flight, and we know this the Mandalorians that projectile based weapons are the bane of lightsabers, with molten slap continuing towards the target after being hit by the lazer sword.
How would lightsabers fair against their armor? Would it be like cutting through a droid or like the scene where it takes effort to cut through the reinforced door?
Ceramite deflects heat and energy well (it's why Lasguns don't fare much on a lore perspective outside of the Joints or Visors). I'd say it would be harder than a droid but probably easier than those reinforced doors, but more difficult in practice than both combined as the Astartes definitely wouldn't let them box them into close range easily. And even then, most Astartes have stupid almost matrix levels of reaction time (depending on the Astartes but still superhuman compared to the baseline).
Ceremite does offer good protection against energy weapons, but a fully charged lasrifle has punched through Astartes armor in lore. So I think they'd have more difficulty than slicing through battle droids like butter, but it wouldn't be *too* difficult. However, there are a lot of places where there's a few inches of armor before you get to the meat. So not every hit would wound.
@@MarcusVance Would it be accurate to say the fight would be like the old "Ninja vs Knight" videos? A more agile clothed ninja(Jedi) vs a heavily armored knight(Space Marine) where the ninja has a few tricks up its sleeve(force powers) to combat the heavy armor of the knight?
Not exactly. Space Marines are surprisingly nimble in their armor, and fast. Jedi don't have armor, but they can be difficult to hit while moving, if they're trying to dodge. They can also theoretically block projectiles with the Force. However a lot of that is beyond what your average Jedi can do. They're essentially glass cannons, since a lightsaber could easily end or debilitate an Astartes.
I feel like "better than a regular person but ehh" is a /much/ harsher take than the evidence suggests. The Jedi did indeed suffer horrible casualties on Geonosis, but they were severely outnumbered. Admittedly mostly by the terrible B-1 series droids, but in the initial phase of the battle, where they seemed to take very significant casualties, they were /still/ badly outnumbered even by more threatening droids like the B-2s and droidekas. As for order 66, again, we see the Jedi being badly outnumbered, on top of being taken by surprise by their own allies. And the close troopers don't seem to be slouches themselves, having won the aforementioned Battle of Geonosis despite being outnumbered over 5-1 (mostly by the B-1s again, but even B-1s have blasters and the clone troopers can't block those). So I don't really see "can be consistently ambushed and killed by apparently-quite-skilled soldiers in large numbers" as indicating that the average Jedi is particularly weak. Does that mean they're particularly strong? Hard to say. The Jedi tend to get the same kind of power inflation from their fanbase and dedicated media that the space marines get from theirs. They seem stronger than the standard troops of their setting, but not massively strong. For shiggles, let's ask how we'd stat the average Jedi in 40k tabletop terms, and go from there. I'd maybe take an eldar warlock, remove its shuriken pistol and ability to cast Smite, and drop its weapon skill to 4+. If you put that up against, say, an assault intercessor (basic melee space marine), the space marine wins pretty handily one-on-one, but loses similarly-handily if it fights two at once. Of course, for a more veteran Jedi (like basically all of them at the time of Order 66), I might give them something like the unaugmented warlock statline, which is pretty-highly-favored to beat the space marine one-on-one. And I dunno, that seems basically right to me. /shrug
I think that would depend wildly on the loadout the Spartan has and the terrain if the Spartan is in an open area no cover which is an assault rifle and a pistol those laser rifles are going to tear shields to pieces pretty quickly give him the ability to move through cover and actually break contact there's no telling how many Kriegsmen would fulfill their debt
Great video. I would also like to bring up that Space Marines would have encounters with Psykers which I would argue are more terrifying than Jedi. Plus, with how ridiculous 40K lore is, I wouldn't be surprised if Space Marine weapons could cut a lightsaber in half. Note: I was kinda joking/ poking fun at 40k. I probably should have known that people were going to take it seriously.
I support Decays theory. There are already a few examples of blades in Legends Star Wars lore that do have that ability. Metal swords that when striking a lightsaber blade it disrupts the resonance and can even temporarily turn them off. They are made of Cortosis, a rare ore which could easily have an analogue in 40k. So there is precedent for this kind of thing already, so I would not be surprised. There is also a lightsaber style weapon in 40k called the Aegis Energy blade, which is good for parrying power swords, the most likely weapon an Astartes might use against a jedi, but it can break if you're not lucky. Considering Star Wars does have tabletop rpgs, the stats are pretty similar imo, so I think this counts as proof that it is possible a space marine might wield a blade capable of shutting off a lightsaber, albeit maybe not in one blow. RANT TIME: Gotta love the instant 'LMAO NO' from the guys with no imagination or basic reading comprehension, you said 'I wouldn't be surprised' not 'there is or should be' when considering a fight between fictional characters from properties that will likely never do an official crossover (Didney Wurl), and these guys response was 'no' without any other input. What kind of gatekeeping tripe is this? No what? No, the 40k Lore is not ridiculous? No, you're not allowed to be unsurprised at GW writers tendency to write overly masturbatory grimdark macguffin horseshit weapons? No, Spess Mehreen can't beat Jedi because I liek Star Wars betterer? No, you're not allowed an opinion at all, perhaps? Here's an idea, how about instead of posting comments that don't add anything except childish ignorance and ill will to a conversation, you actually say something well meaning and useful? Either explain why you think that concept wouldn't exist, give some thought as to how it might work if it did exist, or maybe have the two brain cells to rub together to do a cursory google search to see if there is already precedent for this kind of thing in either property (yes, there is, btw, Cortosis and the Aegis Blade) so you don't look like a cunt when you go 'No' to somebody literally just wondering out loud. Fucking despondent failures, all of you.
@@picklejho69 My reason for agreeing with the original reply would be I misinterpreted his meaning at that last sentence. I thought he was part of the 40k community with an almost instantaneous disregard for the newer lore. People that as a rule refuse to acknowledge anything from the return of Gulliman forwards, most especially the Primaris Marines and the technology associated with them. In retrospect, it was silly of me to assume that was what he was talking about but as a 40k fan you have to admit there are a large amount of people that do that. I would hate anyone to consider me as someone who doesn't have anything constructive to reply when it comes to my favorite universe.
I know this is not part of the argument and that it's not even Canon, but starkiller might be able to either directly transform them into dust, electrocute or simply force push them to death (looking at the force unleashed, he seemed to have the strongest force push of all time). Would be cool to have a comparison how many space marines it would take, to take him down.
It would be a lot. Might even be impossible for generic Space Marines to do it. You'd have to bring Terminators and Librarians into play. Maybe even some Dreadnoughts. Starkiller is a beast.
I think it would probably take a lot more than 15 average jedi to take out an Astartes, specifically because most jedi only fight against lightsabers and blasters, both of which they can deflect with relative ease. A round from a bolter would either explode or liquefy on contact with a lightsaber, which pretty much makes it a "one shot, one kill" scenario, and Astartes have *incredibly* good reflexes, so I feel they could keep up with jedi speed easily.
One spacemarine equal to 10 guardsmen? In the badab war during a early engagement between loyalist astartes and the tyrants legion, the tyrant legion being considered elite by IG, the ratio was 200:1 in KIA. That was a suprise for the loyalist astartes.
It begs the question: which Jedi Master could take the most Space Marines? Obi Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, and Plo Koon stand out as far as real combat experience and skills I think would match up well.
I think it'd be Windu. Kenobi's main specialty is being a smart duelist. He picks his battles and knows his opponents. Plo Koon is said to be the Jedi that Darth Maul held in the highest regard as to lightsaber training, but I haven't really seen him do too much with that. So couldn't say. But in various media Windu has shown he's good 1x1 and against groups.
@@MarcusVance Both Plo and Windu have powers that tread very close to the dark side, Windu with the Vaapad style and Plo Koon with his electric judgement force lightning. Kenobi would have great defense against projectile weapons and chainsaw blades (which I wonder how they would fair against a lightsaber...) but I think would probably lack the shear ferocity that would be needed to put Space Marines on the back foot.
Are we only talking jedi sith tht we've seen on the big screens ? I feel like yall are forgetting bout people like darth bane or Nihilus or even revan.
People forget that clones are enhanced, and your average jedi reacts to plasma shots that move way faster than space marine projectile. And they learn to do that at like 4.
I think a couple of million guardsmen with lasrifles have a better chance. But i'm also thinking, can Astartes armor deflect lightsabers and can lightsabers block/deflect 40k lasrifles?
The thing is, if a Jedi tries to parry or defect a bolter bullet, that bullet will explode on impact and to a jedi this might dusarm them or fracture their wrist if they arent prepared.
That makes me wonder about how storm troopers are such bad shots when a lot of storm troopers are clones and clones of jango fett no less I understand strength in numbers and even lucky shots or the fact that it was unexpected but some Jedi can hold planets together canonically and yet they were so easily dispatched but when you consider Jedi feats and jango and boba fett feats it should have been more interesting and 50/50 than just almost everyone getting wiped out, what are your views not to say that every Jedi is that powerful but for it to be that easy has always astounded me based on how they are portrayed
What makes Space Marines really scary as I understand it- they are SMARTER than the average or even intelligent person. That means that in the time that it takes for a Jedi to think of a way to destroy them, the Space Marine will have already started to think of a counter attack.
Now that we have basic astartes vs basic Jedi, I'd like to see top tier Jedi vs top tier astartes i.e. the primarchs. I'm not up to date on Star Wars lore, but I feel like post heresy Magnus would nuke most of them.
If we are talking clone wars Era but go back to the sith wars jedi or the expanded universe and idk but starkiller pulled a whole ass star destroyer out of space
These Jedi were pretty average because of the era of peace they lived in. Old Republic Jedi were pretty nutty tho because there were more than 2 Sith Lords at any given time. There were legitimately hundreds if not thousands (Maybe even tens of thousands)of sith at that time if I'm not mistaken. So that era would've had some really experienced Jedi
See kinda unfair to use one instance of jedi at their worse and then use a situation designed to tkae then out while using multiple instances of space marines at their best.
Would be interesting to look at this from an old republic perspective cuz those Jedi were almost constantly at war with someone so they actually have combat experience. I’d say average would be more like 3-5 tbh, and higher ones like Revan could probably take on as many as like 2, maybe 3 space marines. It’s really weird tho cuz like generally, Jedi are shown as barely capable warriors since they’re peacekeepers. Then you have things like a single Jedi Knight pulling a star destroyer out of orbit, or someone about as strong in the force as Obi Wan, who isn’t particularly gifted but just works really hard, being able to literally contain and move black holes. Don’t even get me started on force sensitives in Legends like the Mother
Having the jump helps, but numbers is definitely why the clones beat them. Add on top of that the clone troops being pretty damn effective as clone armies tend to go. And Space Marines are trained and some actually have experience killing Psykers which can be as scary if not scarier than Jedi; there are Chaos Marine Sorcerer's which are basically, a Jedi plus being a Space Marine. So, I don't really fear for our Astartes friends.
It'll take 10-15 average jedi knights to take on a Space Marine. Keep in mind, Jedi who are well verse in the force are basically like psykers in 40k. Psykers with decent power can f-up a standard Space Marine. A powerful Jedi like Luke Skywalker or Galen Marek can force choke or crush a space Marine.
Grey Knights are vastly different to an unnamed Astartes and could wipe the floor with many high level enemies. A Terminator is also pretty high up there but since the question was an average Astartes vs average Jedi your point is kinda moot.
People are talking about the Jedi force pushing the bolter rounds away from them can a Jedi react that fast? Ecpessily since its not possible to see the bullet I'm mainly just curious don't know much about star wars lore
I feel like luke skywalker would just use force crush like he did the dark trooper. Luke sees blood coming out of the crushed suit. "Wait was that not a droid"?
I did point this out before but Jedi in the old republic games are definitely superior to the average Jedi in the movies given the fact that the old republic Jedi has far more combat experience on average
As far as I'm concerned, this kind of question depends on the rank and experience of each kind, as well as what they bring to the fight. If it's a Jedi master, one who has decades of experience and training vs. a Captain for instance, space marines who are well known for being amongst some of the premier heroes of their chapters, sometimes leading whole COMPANIES of lesser-ranked battle brothers, it might swing in favor of the jedi. Now, if it were a librarian, one of fair skill and psychic discipline, they'd need a fair bit more than a single jedi master. Against a tactical marine? Battleline astartes? 5-15 seems fair enough if it's a mix of knights and padawans, which, if we're thinking of the jedi from Geonosis, most likely will be.
Wargear is another consideration. For a jedi, depending on how uppity they feel on the subject of using blasters, you can expect the usual lightsaber and "the force is my ally" shtick, but if it's a space marine, you've got bolt weapons, plasma weapons, melta weapons, and so on. Each one more devastating than the last.
A psyker is pretty much a Jedi and space marines have taken them out so a Jedi wouldn't be a problem. Also, a lightsaber would be the worst weapon to try and use to deflect a bolter round since it's a solid explosive round one touch from that saber on a bolter round and the jedi becomes a big stain on the floor.
If a bolter round connects the jedi would be chunky salsa. However, Jedi do have the ability to block and redirect physical rounds. As for them being psykers, not really. Even the Eldar need to have numerous cautions in place to protect them from Slaanesh and Chaos in general. They can never operate anywhere close to 100%. Jedi have no such restrictions.
Depends on the Jedi, but more likely you need several Astartes to kill a Jedi. Powerful Jedi like Obi-Wan, Anakin or Luke would most likely kill Primarchs easily simply by using the force
i dont think the jedi could handle the sheer brutallity of .... basicly anything from 40k. I think the only Jedi who wouldn't run out of pure terror would be powerhouses like Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan. And they may would win a one on one duel.
The strongest Jedi in the Star Wars cannon would be capable of crushing an Astartes like a tin can. A regular Astartes, for that matter. A Librarian would prove a tougher fight, though I think the best Jedi in the Star Wars universe could beat 90% of Librarians in a 1v1. Perhaps more.
It also depends on wich era of jedi or jeda'hai because during the sith wars and jedi civil war they were mutch more powerfull than the prequils original and sequill trillogies.
Lets assume a jedi's force powers are equivelent to a psychers, and that a lightsaber can cut though a space marines armor, and that they are comeing from all sides. One quarter to one half will be mowed down by his bolter, as lightsabers can't deflect bullets. A few would try to hold him still or knock him off balance, futilily most likely, as the rest charge in. A space marine could easily withstand a few cuts and slices, as jedi dont normally go for dimemberment. The space marine could kill a few more in melee, but eventually would be overwhelmed as one or two jedi go for his head. Id say at least fifteen, with half to 3/4 casulties.
Now hold up generic clones troopers are still one of the best trained troops in the star wars galaxy that only fall to specialized troop even the clone commandos are top tier
well this as you said really depends as even within the "average" that being presumably the Jedi knight there was great variance. the moment you hit Jedi Masters, even the average master would be a terror on the field. just look at Pong Krell during the clone wars and the way he casually slaughtered his way through clones. and i would say as far as named characters go? Pong Krell isn't exactly the best. and in regards to the clones taking out the Jedi? as HK-47 put it. even the Jedi cannot fight 100 assailants firing at once. especially not when said assailants are essentially doing a sudden surprise attack. we also have to remember that the Jedi precognitive abilities were being hampered during the clone wars by the interference of darth sidious. i would say 3 or 4 Jedi Knights is a more accurate number for fighting a space marine reliably and that's simply because they can then cheat by collectively using force pull and throw him around or the likes. i mean space marines don't exactly do well when faced with telepath psykers usually (just look at the Astartes animation at what two psykers were capable of seemingly doing) i worry i may be a bit too harsh on the space marines here though but this is my own guesstimation based on my lore of the star wars expanded lore both canon and legends.
@@MarcusVance for one: holy crap you responded I love your content For second (idk): if you read any comics or watch the tv shows then you see how competent they can be and the reason order 66 worked so well is that it was a complete surprise But yeah maybe a few more than 2-3 maybe more like 4-6
I looked into about a dozen Master/Knight/Padawan deaths outside of the ones mentioned. Most are anti-climactic. Master Ima-Gun Di, for instance, got beaten by ~12 battle droids while he had Clone support. Pong Krell had no issue being greatly outnumbered, but was easily outsmarted.
GW has stated that the Codices are essentially propaganda, so not entirely "true." By game rules, it's 3 Imperial Guard. Rogal Dorn mentioned somewhere (can't recall where) the 1:10 ratio, and that's the general consensus across forums.
Putting this out there, but "Getting gunned down by hundred-to-one odds" also typically butchers Astartes. It's not a valid metric for a combatant who can perfectly predict and respond to incoming danger like damn Spider-Man in any other circumstance. A given *competent* Jedi should be able to 1v1 any given Astartes, and usually come out ahead (assuming things like bolter shells not going off upon impact with a lightsaber, etc). You want a Space Marine that can reliably beat a Jedi, you need to look at Librarians, Captains, etc.
A competent Jedi, yeah. But after reading up on all the canon Jedi deaths across Star Wars, any Jedi that's not closely tied with a Skywalker is not that competent. I love Star Wars way more than 40k, but they have done the Jedi dirty.
An astartes being as strong as 10 imperial guards doesnt means it takes 10 guards to defeat one. I mean you you could if you make the guard a legendary figure. Correct me if i am wrong but i dont think the person in the video took into account the training, odds of becing a space marine as low as 5 percent and hundreds of years of experiance fighting againt horrors worse than you can imagine.
I honestly think, that a Jedi, going with what he had, not getting back on his strength and nothing like, can beat a Space Marine, but mostly by the light saber, I think that the sword can cut a Space Marine to the half easily
it highly depends on which space marine it is and the loadout, the reason why 40k weapons are able to take out a space marine in one go is because of the properties of power weapons being able to split between molecules and separate atoms, i believe coordinated jedi would be able to take out a space marine its that if they fight long range or the space marine has a power weapon as mentioned before it'll take way more jedi
@@neronapalm834 I understand what you say, but at near range, the Jedi has the ligh swords, which I think that can cut everything, so as I say, a truly powerful Jedi or Sith, like Anakin Skywalker (or Darth Vader) and also Like Skywalker and obviously Syar Killer, can take down a Spacial Marine by his own (I say also say Sith because in the end they are the same than the Jedi but just that they are crazy)
@@migueange1056 i would also like to say that lightsabers cannot cut though everything as there is armor proven to resist light saber hits in starwars, also the fact that anakin before he became darth vader fought a guy who can hold the light saber blade with his bare fingers
@@neronapalm834 yeah, bit right now you are talking about things and characters from Star Wars, not from Warhammer 40K, soy maybe in their universe there is nothing able to do something like that with the light sabers
In fairness to the jedi if a single astartes was against a battle group of clones they would also be massacred and not stand much chance. Way too many clones with weapons more than capable of putting a marine down for good
@@turikazurikaz6730 depends on the group sometimes thousands sometimes around 500 keep in mind that a regular blaster is stronger than regular lasgun fire and they also have heavy/special weapons.
@@ninedivines5374 The Guard has more common and more powerful special weapons as the norm. A blaster is about equally strong, slightly stronger if we are being generous, but weaker than a Tau pulse rifle.
If Jedi or Sith had a modicum of understanding of what the Force actually is, they could take an Astartes no problem. 99.9999% of them don’t, so they’d get their asses tossed by an Astartes.
Knights would be destroyed Jedi Masters could stand a chance but only a chance if they make a mistake they would be dead force powers or not Astartes are made to go toe to toe with pretty much anything especially pyskers. I would love to see two Space Marine Librarians vs 3 Jedi Masters that would be a very interesting fight
"Five to fifteen Jedi to bring down your average Astartes" - I like those odds. The Emperor Protects!
"Canon jedi"
And I imagine that’s assuming that they’re already in close quarters, a Bolter would rip them in half
Wait, *which* Emperor?
@@burntham113 the only true emperor
question: how many jedi does it needs to kill a custodian
honestly 1 astartes being worth 10 guardsmen sounds like an understatement
No kidding. Armor like a tank, too fast for something that size, absurd strength and durability, and bonkers firepower...
I always heard that 1 astartes is worth atleast 1000 guardsmen
@@hipponln5190 keep in mind the youtuber that made the vid takes bolter caliber from "canon" and in canon the bolter is just 75cal wich is smaller than 50cal so just like an ak round more or less
To be fair it just takes one lucky shot to the eye
@@aguspuig6615 the boltgun is .75 caliber that mean 19,05 mm with percing armor and explosive, im sure at 85 % the .50 caliber is the human bolter, the imperium made a smaller bolter for sister of battle and guardsmen for use it to destroy the stronger enemy thier weapon look like bolter junior or maybe its just the pisto bolter
I love this. Top tier Jedi might equal one given force mastery, being able to stop shots etc. but absolutely agree about base level Jedi. The only representation we have is the battle of geonosis.
Top tier Jedi (or Sith) would be interesting. They definitely have the tools to win, but the fact that they can't deflect bolter rounds would be a big hurdle.
Sith would have an easier time, if they can use Force Lightning. But a Jedi using Force Push... Astartes weigh about a ton in armor.
@@MarcusVance Jacen solo casually swept away several tons worth of rubble. And that's before turning to the dark side. A jedi knight during the clone wars halted an entire venator star destroyer from falling. A padawan halted four hail fire missiles. I know you're going with canon, but you should clarify next time.
@@MarcusVance if I recall the bolted is explosive, but solid slugs still. Would a lightsaber not melt them like they do in Legends? I guess question is would they explosive detonate with lightsaber melt. Also could force push, push back bolster rounds? 🤔
@@TheJDKX I do believe bolt rounds (or atleast certain variants) can be timed for the explosion meaning deflection outside of force doesn’t matter much, though realistically even a normal bullet wouldn’t be exposed to a light saber long enough to melt going through it.
@@tfan2222 valid in reality they wouldn’t as momentarily moving through plasma. In universe lore regular rounds basically get vaporized on contact.
Honestly I think it would take couple more base level Jedi to fight an unnamed Astartes. This comes from the fact that if this Astartes is wielding a bolter and chainsword they would probably knock out multiple Jedi within the first few seconds as shown by how slug throwers take them out fairly well and a bolter is kinda similar. Personally I think the number would be around 20 Jedi as long as they also use force powers
The sword wouldn't do jack the Jedi would just cut it in half and render is completely useless
@@evanfrazee7200 I'd say the sword would do a little more than jack as it both inspires fear as well as the fact that with enough skill and the Astartes could just bypass a lightsaber and slice up a Jedi
@@dantheman4876 There is no fear in a True Jedi
@@thelootfinder8960 Bro literally that blue chick with tentacle hair (Idk her name) looked kinda scared when the clones shot her
@@evanfrazee7200 Ceramite has resistance to energy weapons, Astartes arsenal are mostly made from them, it may damage the Chainsword but the sheer weight and mass of it will cleave the Jedi in two.
FYI a single Lightning Claw is actually 70kg in weight. (Iron Snakes Novel)
I don't feel like it's entirely fair to say Jedi are as wear on average, because them being killed by the clones was a surprise. They were killed by what they perceived to be friendlies. Jedi that were aware of what was going on lived for at least a few years longer.
I would like to bring up that in both situations, the jedi were severely outnumbered. It doesn't matter how good you are at deflecting blaster shots if your being shot at by 30 hostiles. Not to mention the surprise factor the clones had going for them and the fact that at the battle of geonosis most of the jedi wouldn't have seen combat recently if at all. Other than that, great video!
Surprise huh? Maybe just send in a bunch of scouts to take out most of the clones in that sqaud right there
@@toniwhalin6813 I've been staring at this since you sent this, what the fuck are you trying to get across?
That’s kind of the point, they get defeated easily. A Space Marine would destroy a bunch easily, let alone a handful of Space Marines
The Jedi precognition isn’t constant (snipers were an affective way of killing Jedi), the Jedi had fought are war with these clones laughed with the clones and died with the clones, the Jedi completely trusted the clones, and the hostile intent went from zero to one hundred in an instant.
most Jedi got shot in the back so using that as an example against them is massively underselling them.
If that astartes goes down theres a chance he will come back as an angry walking sarcophagus with gatling guns, rocket launchers, plasma cannons, and flamethrowers
I prefer these types of videos where there's a nuanced discussion instead of one side stomping the other. I basically agree with the video.
Contrary to what most of the 40k fandom thinks, Space Marines-while strong-are not the most over powered things out there.
Remember that scene in the Astartes animation where they punch the tech priest's head so hard it explodes? Yeah that's basically how your average jedi would stack up lol
The thing is: as soon as a single librarian is involved, the force can be completely taken out of the picture, because they can just shut it down. Additionally, mind tricks don't work on them due to strong psychic resistance.
Depends on how strong the force mind trick is if suppose
That sounds very reasonable, and a great video 👍
Would you consider a video on how many astartes it would take to kill a sith lord like darth bane (or a less powerful one) solely in combat? And vice versa
Sith have an edge due to more damaging abilities like Force Lightning. But even they aren't prepared for mass combat.
Technically Space Marines aren't either-not being the best front line troops against the brunt of an enemy force-but they'd be better.
@@MarcusVanceLord Teluk Kord would like to have a word on that assessment. Less powerful definitely needs to be established, as if one of the ancient Sith Masters from pre republic era is involved and learns of the impending battle/invasion through the common ability of foresight or sith ritual, then I don't know of any size of force of marines that could handle that? Force Storm? Deadly sight? If they invade from space then say screw it and make a sun go supernova? Or be Nihlus and look at the Marines and just think of dinner. Or find their planet and also think of dinner. Hard to shoot a body that is ethereal. Or his buddy Sion who is in too much pain to actually die.
The ancient Sith's entire culture, and philosophy was based on war and gaining power. It was why the title of dark lord of the sith was so coveted.
@@RepressedMemories16 then just use a psyker dang!
@@bmxdoe after reading about the 5 generic types of Pykers as well as a brief summary of their powers, I do not think even an army or the emperor of the Psykers would be able to handle it. All it would take is one of them to fall to daemonic possession and their hive mind may end up becoming the biggest flaw. Mother Talzen briefly crippled Dooku through a night sister ritual, based off of old sith rituals. Palpatine was able to send visions of a false future to Anakin from across the galaxy, someone who would be sensitive to these visions in a fundamental way due to the insane connection to force, probably similar to an always active side psychic ability. If he corrupts say an inquisitor thinking he is/will be possessed, I did not read what happens if they feel possession is approaching, however if their inclination is self sacrifice to protect the link to the emperor... Then I don't believe there would even be a battle, the potential disorder of seeing your strongest warriors becoming corrupted would do to the moral of the units,, or if that fear and increased need/desire for power would attract actual possession.
The most interesting thing would be psychic vs the force. Force allows you to read minds like a telepath, and Palpatine alone hid under the radar from over a thousand Jedi some of the strongest of the age, and flew under all suspicion until the last moment.
And if foresight is not a thing for the Psykers which I could not find much (again brief search sorry about that) then again, don't know how they even make it to the battle. Passed by a solar system on the way to Coruscant? Palpatine turns the sun into a nuclear fire cracker. Using portals to get there? Materialize into an ongoing force Storm. Run into a hungry Nihlus and they are a drive through meal and nothing more. And with the title of Lord of Hunger... Hope the emperor sends a fat force.
I do apologize if the information is not wholly accurate, most of this was gathered from the fandom page for Warhammer. Seemed like the most reliable source for information but cannot be sure as not familiar with the lore at all to spot inconsistencies.
The Astartes film pretty much gives us what a powerful Force user encounter may look like.
Yep, Star Wars to 40k comparisons somehow constantly does Star Wars dirty despite the lore on the way things are being fairly comparable to get a fair middle ground between the two worlds. An example of this would be the way Blasters work, they're exactly like Tau Pulse Rifles, so it would be fair to say then that Clones would be using Tau rules if combat efficacy were to be measured with a modicum of established metrics rather than bias.
Really think it needs to be stressed that jedi wouldn't even be much of an unknown factor to them. Consider the eldar, specifically warlocks. They have psychic powers that let them see the future and use it during battle, can throw lightning around, manipulate fate, carry a sword that can cleave through power armor pretty easily and can pretty easily deliver a mortal wound to an astartes, pack a shuriken pistol, and wear armor that manipulates fate to guide attacks away from them. They also have superhuman agility, reflexes, and process information faster than humans could dream of. None of this stops space marines from killing warlocks. And yeah, warlocks can kill space marines too, but keep in mind all the stuff listed that goes beyond "space magic and sword that can cut through basically anything". And these eldar are trained specifically to fight in war. They are not a peace keeping force, they are there to kill the enemies of the eldar people. And a warlock not only has prior combat experience from their time as an aspect warrior, their long lives means they have plenty of time to hone their skills. They already know how to fight Jedi without ever having met one before.
If you know anything about bioshock. I would love to see how the 5 variants of big daddy would fair up against one astartes in a battle then how a character like subject delta would fair as he is the main protagonist of bioshock 2 and in the game, he's taken on quite a bit for being a "prototype" big daddy
Ooh, that's a good one.
Big Daddy's do seem to be a slow hulking type, mainly used against fleshy, squishy drug addicts, not to mention their weaponry and armor are made of inferior material like steel, and astartes are faster, faster reflexes, better weaponry and better armor, but then again there's the fact tht i don't know that much about Astartes and that's just if it's one on one
I reckon a big daddy can hold his own, but won't win in 1v1 combat against a standard Astartes, mainly because of speed. But 2 or 3 have better odds.
@@ultramarinescaptain3840 yeah I totally agree with you on that lol
@@loreweed8882 um no? Splicers have increased durability due to the Adam splicing and gene manipulation. A normal lead head is able to take a few .50 machine gun rounds to the dome before going down. Subject delta survived a torpedo exploding him out of a rail car and it only knocked him out. Subject sigma survived a entire hallway being blown up on him and he survived it after pushing off around 3 tons of support steel of his body under water and the later models of big daddy such as the bouncer can cut through diamond hard rock. The big daddies would hold their own against astartes as their metal armor is like 4 inches thick of copper and steel and the "fabric" portions are that of Kevlar and they would able to push the astartes around with a bit of force and effort because they are the heavy equipment of the rapture.
It really depends how the fight starts
If the jedi can surprise the astrates, one swing and it's over basically
But if it's face to face, since jedis can't throw back the bullets etc, it would probably take more than just 15 jedi
It's not really a question of "power"
It's a question of battle scenario
@@adanfuenets3148 bolster rounds go WAY faster than blaster rounds or even slugs etc
And I doubt à jedi will be able to force field so many explosive can sized rocket propelled rounds being shot so quickly
The Astartes videos that were up before GW seized them displayed their approach to telekinesis quite well, I recommend taking a look if you can find it still.
Edit: Found it! ruclips.net/video/DVXEYksoE6c/видео.html skip to about 3:50
@@Earadon yeah I watched the videos!
If you bring Old Republic jedi and sith into the mix its a totally different story in my opinion.
I like in the Astartes animation where five of them were taking on 2 psykers (basically Jedi).
They got it done.
Bolters would be a bad weapon to use against Jedi because of the fact they’re assault rifles that fire miniature rockets, and a Jedi could maybe force deflect a few…though writing that out they probably couldn’t block ALL of a salvo coming their way, and they got something faster and stronger than a Wookiee barreling down on them screaming really, REALLY loudly as they draw a combat knife bigger than a sword for a normal person.
Those weren't just psykers they were (possibly) chaos backed psykers making them much stronger than the average human psyker.
The force cant effect the astartes directly, they cant be force choked or pushed. Weapons with slugs cant be deflected since the slugs will just be burned and possibly even harm a jedi, Ive seen a comic panel where obi wan had to retreat after trying to deflect a slug from a gun and to top it all off, astartes bolter rounds explode.
It also depends on range and load out. If the Astartes has more than 60 ft between him and the Jedi, as well as a trusty bolter, the jedi are going to get slapped. Most of them aren't powerful enough to curve a projectile mid-flight, and we know this the Mandalorians that projectile based weapons are the bane of lightsabers, with molten slap continuing towards the target after being hit by the lazer sword.
How would lightsabers fair against their armor? Would it be like cutting through a droid or like the scene where it takes effort to cut through the reinforced door?
Ceramite deflects heat and energy well (it's why Lasguns don't fare much on a lore perspective outside of the Joints or Visors). I'd say it would be harder than a droid but probably easier than those reinforced doors, but more difficult in practice than both combined as the Astartes definitely wouldn't let them box them into close range easily. And even then, most Astartes have stupid almost matrix levels of reaction time (depending on the Astartes but still superhuman compared to the baseline).
@@PVT900 Thanks a lot for that, was just trying to figure out meshing lore star wars and 40k.
Ceremite does offer good protection against energy weapons, but a fully charged lasrifle has punched through Astartes armor in lore. So I think they'd have more difficulty than slicing through battle droids like butter, but it wouldn't be *too* difficult.
However, there are a lot of places where there's a few inches of armor before you get to the meat. So not every hit would wound.
@@MarcusVance Would it be accurate to say the fight would be like the old "Ninja vs Knight" videos? A more agile clothed ninja(Jedi) vs a heavily armored knight(Space Marine) where the ninja has a few tricks up its sleeve(force powers) to combat the heavy armor of the knight?
Not exactly. Space Marines are surprisingly nimble in their armor, and fast.
Jedi don't have armor, but they can be difficult to hit while moving, if they're trying to dodge. They can also theoretically block projectiles with the Force.
However a lot of that is beyond what your average Jedi can do.
They're essentially glass cannons, since a lightsaber could easily end or debilitate an Astartes.
I feel like "better than a regular person but ehh" is a /much/ harsher take than the evidence suggests. The Jedi did indeed suffer horrible casualties on Geonosis, but they were severely outnumbered. Admittedly mostly by the terrible B-1 series droids, but in the initial phase of the battle, where they seemed to take very significant casualties, they were /still/ badly outnumbered even by more threatening droids like the B-2s and droidekas.
As for order 66, again, we see the Jedi being badly outnumbered, on top of being taken by surprise by their own allies. And the close troopers don't seem to be slouches themselves, having won the aforementioned Battle of Geonosis despite being outnumbered over 5-1 (mostly by the B-1s again, but even B-1s have blasters and the clone troopers can't block those). So I don't really see "can be consistently ambushed and killed by apparently-quite-skilled soldiers in large numbers" as indicating that the average Jedi is particularly weak.
Does that mean they're particularly strong? Hard to say. The Jedi tend to get the same kind of power inflation from their fanbase and dedicated media that the space marines get from theirs. They seem stronger than the standard troops of their setting, but not massively strong. For shiggles, let's ask how we'd stat the average Jedi in 40k tabletop terms, and go from there. I'd maybe take an eldar warlock, remove its shuriken pistol and ability to cast Smite, and drop its weapon skill to 4+. If you put that up against, say, an assault intercessor (basic melee space marine), the space marine wins pretty handily one-on-one, but loses similarly-handily if it fights two at once. Of course, for a more veteran Jedi (like basically all of them at the time of Order 66), I might give them something like the unaugmented warlock statline, which is pretty-highly-favored to beat the space marine one-on-one. And I dunno, that seems basically right to me. /shrug
I have a question, how many kriegs to kill a spartan?
I think that would depend wildly on the loadout the Spartan has and the terrain if the Spartan is in an open area no cover which is an assault rifle and a pistol those laser rifles are going to tear shields to pieces pretty quickly give him the ability to move through cover and actually break contact there's no telling how many Kriegsmen would fulfill their debt
Great video. I would also like to bring up that Space Marines would have encounters with Psykers which I would argue are more terrifying than Jedi. Plus, with how ridiculous 40K lore is, I wouldn't be surprised if Space Marine weapons could cut a lightsaber in half.
Note: I was kinda joking/ poking fun at 40k. I probably should have known that people were going to take it seriously.
Lmao, no to that last part.
@@myduckisonqauck7227 Same.
I support Decays theory. There are already a few examples of blades in Legends Star Wars lore that do have that ability. Metal swords that when striking a lightsaber blade it disrupts the resonance and can even temporarily turn them off. They are made of Cortosis, a rare ore which could easily have an analogue in 40k. So there is precedent for this kind of thing already, so I would not be surprised. There is also a lightsaber style weapon in 40k called the Aegis Energy blade, which is good for parrying power swords, the most likely weapon an Astartes might use against a jedi, but it can break if you're not lucky. Considering Star Wars does have tabletop rpgs, the stats are pretty similar imo, so I think this counts as proof that it is possible a space marine might wield a blade capable of shutting off a lightsaber, albeit maybe not in one blow.
RANT TIME:
Gotta love the instant 'LMAO NO' from the guys with no imagination or basic reading comprehension, you said 'I wouldn't be surprised' not 'there is or should be' when considering a fight between fictional characters from properties that will likely never do an official crossover (Didney Wurl), and these guys response was 'no' without any other input. What kind of gatekeeping tripe is this?
No what?
No, the 40k Lore is not ridiculous?
No, you're not allowed to be unsurprised at GW writers tendency to write overly masturbatory grimdark macguffin horseshit weapons?
No, Spess Mehreen can't beat Jedi because I liek Star Wars betterer?
No, you're not allowed an opinion at all, perhaps?
Here's an idea, how about instead of posting comments that don't add anything except childish ignorance and ill will to a conversation, you actually say something well meaning and useful? Either explain why you think that concept wouldn't exist, give some thought as to how it might work if it did exist, or maybe have the two brain cells to rub together to do a cursory google search to see if there is already precedent for this kind of thing in either property (yes, there is, btw, Cortosis and the Aegis Blade) so you don't look like a cunt when you go 'No' to somebody literally just wondering out loud. Fucking despondent failures, all of you.
@@picklejho69 My reason for agreeing with the original reply would be I misinterpreted his meaning at that last sentence. I thought he was part of the 40k community with an almost instantaneous disregard for the newer lore. People that as a rule refuse to acknowledge anything from the return of Gulliman forwards, most especially the Primaris Marines and the technology associated with them. In retrospect, it was silly of me to assume that was what he was talking about but as a 40k fan you have to admit there are a large amount of people that do that. I would hate anyone to consider me as someone who doesn't have anything constructive to reply when it comes to my favorite universe.
@@picklejho69 how about if I say no because you posted a funny rant?
I know this is not part of the argument and that it's not even Canon, but starkiller might be able to either directly transform them into dust, electrocute or simply force push them to death (looking at the force unleashed, he seemed to have the strongest force push of all time).
Would be cool to have a comparison how many space marines it would take, to take him down.
It would be a lot. Might even be impossible for generic Space Marines to do it. You'd have to bring Terminators and Librarians into play. Maybe even some Dreadnoughts.
Starkiller is a beast.
Imagine a guard regiment made out of base Jedi
I think it would probably take a lot more than 15 average jedi to take out an Astartes, specifically because most jedi only fight against lightsabers and blasters, both of which they can deflect with relative ease.
A round from a bolter would either explode or liquefy on contact with a lightsaber, which pretty much makes it a "one shot, one kill" scenario, and Astartes have *incredibly* good reflexes, so I feel they could keep up with jedi speed easily.
What melee weapons would you use to fight necromorphs from dead space?
Anything from the Necron arsenal preferably due it able to disintegrate a necromorph instead of simply dismembering them
Think all of Terra should be glad this wasn't a comparison with Luke in mind. XD
Just having 3 lungs and 2 hearts is so OP.
One spacemarine equal to 10 guardsmen? In the badab war during a early engagement between loyalist astartes and the tyrants legion, the tyrant legion being considered elite by IG, the ratio was 200:1 in KIA. That was a suprise for the loyalist astartes.
Ah yes. But you fail to forget, even 5 average Jedi would have enough combined force power to just crumple homies armor or drop him off a cliff.
If we're talking about top tier Jedi vs top tier Astartes. Jedi every single time. Average? I think about equal. Rookie? Astartes hands down.
Talking 1v1
Jedi are just high level pyschers. Nothing that an experience space marine hasn't seen before
It begs the question: which Jedi Master could take the most Space Marines? Obi Wan Kenobi, Mace Windu, and Plo Koon stand out as far as real combat experience and skills I think would match up well.
I think it'd be Windu. Kenobi's main specialty is being a smart duelist. He picks his battles and knows his opponents.
Plo Koon is said to be the Jedi that Darth Maul held in the highest regard as to lightsaber training, but I haven't really seen him do too much with that. So couldn't say.
But in various media Windu has shown he's good 1x1 and against groups.
@@MarcusVance Both Plo and Windu have powers that tread very close to the dark side, Windu with the Vaapad style and Plo Koon with his electric judgement force lightning. Kenobi would have great defense against projectile weapons and chainsaw blades (which I wonder how they would fair against a lightsaber...) but I think would probably lack the shear ferocity that would be needed to put Space Marines on the back foot.
@@MarcusVance if it was the the clone wars cartoon (2d ones) all they would need is mace windew
Are we only talking jedi sith tht we've seen on the big screens ? I feel like yall are forgetting bout people like darth bane or Nihilus or even revan.
@@somewhereinagalaxyfarfaraway I was assuming the republic of clone wars nd not old republic but even so how would a mandalorion settle against one
People forget that clones are enhanced, and your average jedi reacts to plasma shots that move way faster than space marine projectile. And they learn to do that at like 4.
I think a couple of million guardsmen with lasrifles have a better chance.
But i'm also thinking, can Astartes armor deflect lightsabers and can lightsabers block/deflect 40k lasrifles?
+500 jedi required if the Space marine is named and or blue
Sure, but it would take five to fifteen SPACE MARINES to kill my guy Vader
How bout nihilus. Mother lover just inhales planets
The thing is, if a Jedi tries to parry or defect a bolter bullet, that bullet will explode on impact and to a jedi this might dusarm them or fracture their wrist if they arent prepared.
That makes me wonder about how storm troopers are such bad shots when a lot of storm troopers are clones and clones of jango fett no less I understand strength in numbers and even lucky shots or the fact that it was unexpected but some Jedi can hold planets together canonically and yet they were so easily dispatched but when you consider Jedi feats and jango and boba fett feats it should have been more interesting and 50/50 than just almost everyone getting wiped out, what are your views not to say that every Jedi is that powerful but for it to be that easy has always astounded me based on how they are portrayed
One seems to talk a lot within heavy flamer range.
Corect ! You don't mess with an Astartes
Yes... but could an Astartes defeat the legend among the Imperium: Sly Marbo?
Order 66 is not fair they were caught off guard and were not expecting their own soldiers to turn on them.
What makes Space Marines really scary as I understand it- they are SMARTER than the average or even intelligent person.
That means that in the time that it takes for a Jedi to think of a way to destroy them, the Space Marine will have already started to think of a counter attack.
Now that we have basic astartes vs basic Jedi, I'd like to see top tier Jedi vs top tier astartes i.e. the primarchs. I'm not up to date on Star Wars lore, but I feel like post heresy Magnus would nuke most of them.
1:07 Really? I thought it was 50 guardsmen to takedown an Astartes?
That’s not even a Grey Knight or Thousand Son, or even a Librarian.
If we are talking clone wars Era but go back to the sith wars jedi or the expanded universe and idk but starkiller pulled a whole ass star destroyer out of space
Depends on which jedi.
To be fair with the clones, order 66 caught the jedi off guard.
These Jedi were pretty average because of the era of peace they lived in. Old Republic Jedi were pretty nutty tho because there were more than 2 Sith Lords at any given time. There were legitimately hundreds if not thousands (Maybe even tens of thousands)of sith at that time if I'm not mistaken. So that era would've had some really experienced Jedi
Get in Darth Malgus and see how the odd changes.
How about darth Nilus literally eats planets like Galactus
That makes sense
One space marine is usually worth about 1000 men
See kinda unfair to use one instance of jedi at their worse and then use a situation designed to tkae then out while using multiple instances of space marines at their best.
Also the Jedi have no armour and are only wielding a lightsaber.
The real question how Many Jedi would the space marine kill before he go's down?
I think the marine would kill them all before he dies.
Is there a source for the one space marine equals 10 gaurdsman?
Rogal Dorn mentioned it somewhere, but I can't remember the exact source.
Aside from that, the 1:10 ratio is pretty common on different forums/Reddit.
@@MarcusVance oh, alright. Ill have to hunt down the source.
@@MarcusVance seems the 10 to 1 ratio is fair all things considered.
I guess the answer is different depending on what Jedi you have fighting the space marine. Mace Windu would destroy a space marine.
Would be interesting to look at this from an old republic perspective cuz those Jedi were almost constantly at war with someone so they actually have combat experience. I’d say average would be more like 3-5 tbh, and higher ones like Revan could probably take on as many as like 2, maybe 3 space marines. It’s really weird tho cuz like generally, Jedi are shown as barely capable warriors since they’re peacekeepers. Then you have things like a single Jedi Knight pulling a star destroyer out of orbit, or someone about as strong in the force as Obi Wan, who isn’t particularly gifted but just works really hard, being able to literally contain and move black holes. Don’t even get me started on force sensitives in Legends like the Mother
how many prime anakins would it take?
I do have to say, the clones took the Jedi by surprise during Order 66. That is the only reason they all fell then.
Having the jump helps, but numbers is definitely why the clones beat them. Add on top of that the clone troops being pretty damn effective as clone armies tend to go. And Space Marines are trained and some actually have experience killing Psykers which can be as scary if not scarier than Jedi; there are Chaos Marine Sorcerer's which are basically, a Jedi plus being a Space Marine. So, I don't really fear for our Astartes friends.
It'll take 10-15 average jedi knights to take on a Space Marine. Keep in mind, Jedi who are well verse in the force are basically like psykers in 40k. Psykers with decent power can f-up a standard Space Marine. A powerful Jedi like Luke Skywalker or Galen Marek can force choke or crush a space Marine.
a space marine would wipe the floor. especially if it was a grey knight or a terminator
Yeah. Even a generic Librarian would change that number.
Grey Knights are vastly different to an unnamed Astartes and could wipe the floor with many high level enemies. A Terminator is also pretty high up there but since the question was an average Astartes vs average Jedi your point is kinda moot.
@@MarcusVance librarians would take out atleast 30
@@dantheman4876 yeah true but it would be interesting for a top level Jedi vs a grey Knight, Terminator, or a librarian
@@MarcusVance you should definitely a to tier jedi vs a grey knight or Terminator. A librarian to maybe
What about Jedi vs StarCraft marine?
What about the grey knights chapter?
People are talking about the Jedi force pushing the bolter rounds away from them can a Jedi react that fast? Ecpessily since its not possible to see the bullet I'm mainly just curious don't know much about star wars lore
Jedis have a shit ton of abilities include force speed
I feel like luke skywalker would just use force crush like he did the dark trooper. Luke sees blood coming out of the crushed suit. "Wait was that not a droid"?
What about the expanded universe/legends jedi?
I did point this out before but Jedi in the old republic games are definitely superior to the average Jedi in the movies given the fact that the old republic Jedi has far more combat experience on average
im pretty sure a space marine is worth at least 250 men in terms of combat
As far as I'm concerned, this kind of question depends on the rank and experience of each kind, as well as what they bring to the fight. If it's a Jedi master, one who has decades of experience and training vs. a Captain for instance, space marines who are well known for being amongst some of the premier heroes of their chapters, sometimes leading whole COMPANIES of lesser-ranked battle brothers, it might swing in favor of the jedi. Now, if it were a librarian, one of fair skill and psychic discipline, they'd need a fair bit more than a single jedi master. Against a tactical marine? Battleline astartes? 5-15 seems fair enough if it's a mix of knights and padawans, which, if we're thinking of the jedi from Geonosis, most likely will be.
Wargear is another consideration. For a jedi, depending on how uppity they feel on the subject of using blasters, you can expect the usual lightsaber and "the force is my ally" shtick, but if it's a space marine, you've got bolt weapons, plasma weapons, melta weapons, and so on. Each one more devastating than the last.
A psyker is pretty much a Jedi and space marines have taken them out so a Jedi wouldn't be a problem. Also, a lightsaber would be the worst weapon to try and use to deflect a bolter round since it's a solid explosive round one touch from that saber on a bolter round and the jedi becomes a big stain on the floor.
If a bolter round connects the jedi would be chunky salsa.
However, Jedi do have the ability to block and redirect physical rounds.
As for them being psykers, not really. Even the Eldar need to have numerous cautions in place to protect them from Slaanesh and Chaos in general. They can never operate anywhere close to 100%.
Jedi have no such restrictions.
Depends on the Jedi, but more likely you need several Astartes to kill a Jedi. Powerful Jedi like Obi-Wan, Anakin or Luke would most likely kill Primarchs easily simply by using the force
i dont think the jedi could handle the sheer brutallity of .... basicly anything from 40k. I think the only Jedi who wouldn't run out of pure terror would be powerhouses like Anakin, Ahsoka, Obi-Wan. And they may would win a one on one duel.
The strongest Jedi in the Star Wars cannon would be capable of crushing an Astartes like a tin can. A regular Astartes, for that matter. A Librarian would prove a tougher fight, though I think the best Jedi in the Star Wars universe could beat 90% of Librarians in a 1v1. Perhaps more.
It also depends on wich era of jedi or jeda'hai because during the sith wars and jedi civil war they were mutch more powerfull than the prequils original and sequill trillogies.
More if you they use bolter less if they use flamers. If they use a chainsword jedi for the W
Lets assume a jedi's force powers are equivelent to a psychers, and that a lightsaber can cut though a space marines armor, and that they are comeing from all sides.
One quarter to one half will be mowed down by his bolter, as lightsabers can't deflect bullets. A few would try to hold him still or knock him off balance, futilily most likely, as the rest charge in. A space marine could easily withstand a few cuts and slices, as jedi dont normally go for dimemberment. The space marine could kill a few more in melee, but eventually would be overwhelmed as one or two jedi go for his head.
Id say at least fifteen, with half to 3/4 casulties.
Now hold up generic clones troopers are still one of the best trained troops in the star wars galaxy that only fall to specialized troop even the clone commandos are top tier
and even with those totally inferior to a space marine
well this as you said really depends as even within the "average" that being presumably the Jedi knight there was great variance.
the moment you hit Jedi Masters, even the average master would be a terror on the field. just look at Pong Krell during the clone wars and the way he casually slaughtered his way through clones. and i would say as far as named characters go? Pong Krell isn't exactly the best. and in regards to the clones taking out the Jedi? as HK-47 put it. even the Jedi cannot fight 100 assailants firing at once. especially not when said assailants are essentially doing a sudden surprise attack. we also have to remember that the Jedi precognitive abilities were being hampered during the clone wars by the interference of darth sidious.
i would say 3 or 4 Jedi Knights is a more accurate number for fighting a space marine reliably and that's simply because they can then cheat by collectively using force pull and throw him around or the likes. i mean space marines don't exactly do well when faced with telepath psykers usually (just look at the Astartes animation at what two psykers were capable of seemingly doing)
i worry i may be a bit too harsh on the space marines here though but this is my own guesstimation based on my lore of the star wars expanded lore both canon and legends.
You are forgetting their combative force abilities which can be far more powerful
is this based on the lore or based on the table top
1 space marine equals 10 guardsmen sounds like bullshit
As a starwars nerd trust me if you have any the are not incompetent then it would be 2-3 Jedi
And unfortunately any that aren't at least Skywalker adjacent seem to be incompetent.
@@MarcusVance for one: holy crap you responded I love your content
For second (idk): if you read any comics or watch the tv shows then you see how competent they can be and the reason order 66 worked so well is that it was a complete surprise
But yeah maybe a few more than 2-3 maybe more like 4-6
I looked into about a dozen Master/Knight/Padawan deaths outside of the ones mentioned. Most are anti-climactic.
Master Ima-Gun Di, for instance, got beaten by ~12 battle droids while he had Clone support.
Pong Krell had no issue being greatly outnumbered, but was easily outsmarted.
@@MarcusVance true but it really depends what Jedi you chose
Comic book Jedi > Movie Jedi
Don't mean to knit pic but 5th edition astartes codex says they're worth about a regiment of lesser men
GW has stated that the Codices are essentially propaganda, so not entirely "true." By game rules, it's 3 Imperial Guard.
Rogal Dorn mentioned somewhere (can't recall where) the 1:10 ratio, and that's the general consensus across forums.
I guess 1 astartes equal to 1000 guardsmen
Putting this out there, but "Getting gunned down by hundred-to-one odds" also typically butchers Astartes. It's not a valid metric for a combatant who can perfectly predict and respond to incoming danger like damn Spider-Man in any other circumstance.
A given *competent* Jedi should be able to 1v1 any given Astartes, and usually come out ahead (assuming things like bolter shells not going off upon impact with a lightsaber, etc).
You want a Space Marine that can reliably beat a Jedi, you need to look at Librarians, Captains, etc.
Post rubicon Memphiston vs.the entire Jedi order
A competent Jedi, yeah.
But after reading up on all the canon Jedi deaths across Star Wars, any Jedi that's not closely tied with a Skywalker is not that competent.
I love Star Wars way more than 40k, but they have done the Jedi dirty.
its all fun and games but
what about a custodes?
Aren't they basically mini primarchs Ie :op af
@@lividwafers270 they got clap by word bearers gal Vorbak
An astartes being as strong as 10 imperial guards doesnt means it takes 10 guards to defeat one. I mean you you could if you make the guard a legendary figure. Correct me if i am wrong but i dont think the person in the video took into account the training, odds of becing a space marine as low as 5 percent and hundreds of years of experiance fighting againt horrors worse than you can imagine.
I honestly think, that a Jedi, going with what he had, not getting back on his strength and nothing like, can beat a Space Marine, but mostly by the light saber, I think that the sword can cut a Space Marine to the half easily
it highly depends on which space marine it is and the loadout, the reason why 40k weapons are able to take out a space marine in one go is because of the properties of power weapons being able to split between molecules and separate atoms, i believe coordinated jedi would be able to take out a space marine its that if they fight long range or the space marine has a power weapon as mentioned before it'll take way more jedi
@@neronapalm834 I understand what you say, but at near range, the Jedi has the ligh swords, which I think that can cut everything, so as I say, a truly powerful Jedi or Sith, like Anakin Skywalker (or Darth Vader) and also Like Skywalker and obviously Syar Killer, can take down a Spacial Marine by his own (I say also say Sith because in the end they are the same than the Jedi but just that they are crazy)
@@migueange1056 id agree that a powerful sith and or jedi like darth vader can take on a space marine back to back but probably not for too long
@@migueange1056 i would also like to say that lightsabers cannot cut though everything as there is armor proven to resist light saber hits in starwars, also the fact that anakin before he became darth vader fought a guy who can hold the light saber blade with his bare fingers
@@neronapalm834 yeah, bit right now you are talking about things and characters from Star Wars, not from Warhammer 40K, soy maybe in their universe there is nothing able to do something like that with the light sabers
In fairness to the jedi if a single astartes was against a battle group of clones they would also be massacred and not stand much chance. Way too many clones with weapons more than capable of putting a marine down for good
How many Clones would a "battlegroup" be? Because there are many examples of Astartes butchering far above their weight in soldiers.
@@turikazurikaz6730 depends on the group sometimes thousands sometimes around 500 keep in mind that a regular blaster is stronger than regular lasgun fire and they also have heavy/special weapons.
@@ninedivines5374 The Guard has more common and more powerful special weapons as the norm. A blaster is about equally strong, slightly stronger if we are being generous, but weaker than a Tau pulse rifle.
You should do astartes vs raiden circa Metal gear rising
Kotor jedi could go Toe to toe against an asteratie
What comic and novel jedi become more op
Cool!
If Jedi or Sith had a modicum of understanding of what the Force actually is, they could take an Astartes no problem. 99.9999% of them don’t, so they’d get their asses tossed by an Astartes.
Knights would be destroyed Jedi Masters could stand a chance but only a chance if they make a mistake they would be dead force powers or not Astartes are made to go toe to toe with pretty much anything especially pyskers. I would love to see two Space Marine Librarians vs 3 Jedi Masters that would be a very interesting fight
Normal space marine? Around 2-3. Librarian? 10-20.