LML and Quinn are definitely two of th biggest names in RUclips ASOIAF content creators. I always love to hear my favs go over chapters even if I've read them a thousand times.
Ned is out of his depth, trying so hard to keep the Baratheon Dynasty in power, and Robert just nopes out of it, to go hunting. And it ends with two Lannister bastards masquerading as Baratheon's, sitting on the Iron Throne, Renly (the youngest brother) trying to usurp Stannis (the legal heir), and Stannis ultimately becomes a kinslayer, the North declares for Robb, and no one cares for the Baratheon dynasty except for Stannis. Really love your analysis of Ned's dream. So much tying into the Long Night. So excited to see how GRRM ends it.
Love the episode. Can definitely tell Gray respects the hell out of him she totally allowed him to take the drivers seat. Shoes her security in her craft. Nice.
I wonder what was the King's Guards plan with the baby if Lyanna died? Say Ned would have lost, what there a plan to resist Robert's rule and declaring the new king, as Vyseris fled?
The use of violence in the education of an individual is based upon their behavior and demeanor, some folks talking to isn't adequate to convey the importance of certain lessons.
In Welsh legendary history, King Arthur's grandfather was hailed as Pendraig (Dragon King) under a flaming comet on the eve of battle. I'd recommend looking into Welsh mythology since GRRM seems to have been heavily inspired by it. Also, you might wanna look into the Mab Darogan (Son of Destiny) prophecy, which is still a thing in my culture to this day.
Let's not blame Robert for Cersei's madness, she is a girl murderer, when she kills her best friend Melara for thinking of marrying Jaime. She would be 10 years old and her first murder. Excellent analysis of the symbols in this chapter, Jon is the last great hero ...
On the topic of Joffrey: I think it was Cersei and Robert's fault that Joffrey came up like that. In the 3rd book, Cersei mentions Robert hit Joffrey for cutting a cat's belly. Yes, it was a sign that Joffrey was a psycho, but it was his parents' responsability to let Joffrey know that what he did was wrong, specially with the fact that he was a small child when he did it. Instead, Robert just punches him (he even loses some of his teeth) and f*cks off, while Cersei just pampers him and thinks he did nothing wrong. I mean, when she recalls the incident, she even calls it a "mischief". Cersei's such a sociopath can't even acknowledge that he did something horrible. No wonder Joffrey became a monster. Robert himself saw that Cersei whispers into Joffrey's ear and molded him to be like her.
Some apples are rotten from the beginning. No matter how much parents try to teach or punish .... these people still happen. It's not a learned or taught thing. It's a mental defect from birth. There is no rehabilitation for pedos, psychos, or sociopaths.
“We were seven against three” mirrors the faith of the seven against the three heads of the dragon, ie the Andals against the Dragonlords. This could echo an ancient battle going back to the GEOTD. Great pod!
Lol adding to that LML lyanna night queen parallel of the crypt wouldn't lyanna also be the only woman buried there since it was only reserved for kings of winter?
As far as how Arthur dayne dies, I always thought the scene of Meera using her net & spear to subdue Summer could parallel how Howland defeated Arthur. Though, he probably still had to sneak him, while he was fighting with Ned. So basically, Ned probably got the killing blow but while Arthur was trapped in Howland's net If not, then we should probably see Meera use this technique in the future, otherwise why show it?
I would gently disagree that Joffrey is sympathetic for any reason, even if he witnessed domestic abuse between his "parents". It's implied he sexually abused Tommen. And most notoriously, as a child Joffrey killed a pregnant cat, cut open its belly and showed one of the unborn kittens to Robert. An act that was apparently so gruesome it still bothered Stannis (of all people) to speak of it so many years later in ASOS. Btw, do we know for sure if Joffrey killed the cat BEFORE performing the c-section, or was the cat alive when he cut her open? I digress. In any case, Joff was a psychopath from the start. There was no amount of discipline that could've fixed him. And I can't say witnessing abuse would've substantially effected him either because he displayed psychopathic tendencies from such a young age (he still had his baby teeth at the time he killed the cat). Maybe subconsciously we want to see him as sympathetic because we like Jack Gleeson🤷♀️.
On a few minor details- Benjen=Coldhands theory and dreams...My favorite dream disproves that theory. In ACOK, Theon has a dream turned nightmare in which he dines with the dead Starks. Starks who died dating back to Robert's Rebellion and would go on to die through the Red Wedding (Robb and Greywind's respective appearances indicate/foreshadow their fates). One Stark is conspicuously absent from this dream- Benjen. That means he's still alive and therefore cannot be Coldhands. Though I believe the Hooded Man of Winterfell is Hallis Mollen, my dark horse candidate is Benjen. In my head, it went as Bran said-- after his group fell under attack, the children helped Benjen get to Bloodraven's cave, where he'd remain until BR dispatched him to return to Winterfell. En route, Benjen was to drop the dragon glass cache (and horn) off at the Fist for Jon. This explains why the cache was concealed in new/fresh Night's Watch blacks as opposed to tattered old blacks. From there he'd return to serve as the Stark in Winterfell as he had on previous occasions, carrying out whatever instructions BR gave him. I suppose this would be Benjen's redemption for his role in the rebellion, which I believe was helping Lyanna and Rhaegar; possibly hiding them in Winterfell or serving as a witness to their wedding (maybe even standing in for their father and giving her away). Again, just my tinfoil suspicion. Lastly, I don't think it omens well for Theon that he was an active participant in the dream as opposed to an invisible observer. We shall see.
About tearing down the tower: it sounds like overkill to me. burning any clothing and furniture should have been enough to hide evidence of childbirth. Even if it's easier than thought, taking a tower is still quite some effort. Not taking back the bodies of his men, when it was to be expected that people would be upset over it, is very odd. Lady Dustin looking for the tower should have been a higher risk than going back for the bodies by himself. (if they died during a sword fight, like he said, there would be nothing suspicious about them. and he would have controlled who comes in the area) this is totally tinfoil of the foiliest kind and i have no basis for this. but this kinda reminds me of quarantine meassures, or contingency. maybe something magical happened, idk. but you dont go through this trouble to hide a birth. this is like "scorched earth nobody can ever come here again" type of shit. there is definitely something we haven't been told yet
Def overkill. I think maybe he used the stones as barrow burials. Not taking bones back wasn't about convenience, if you can travel that distance with a baby you can do it with some bones. I think one of Lyanna's 'promises' was about putting her in the Winterfell crypts
@@moiz85 yes! or he could have gone back for them once Lady Dustin was so upset. saying he will personally get them because he is sorry. nobody would have to see anything then. but this "nobody can go there ever" just reminds me of how people abandoned cities after tragedies and outbreaks of disease. there is something very fishy about this
Yeah hitting kids isn't great either. I guess there's a bit of they (parents) didn't know any better, and it fits the general era. I hadn't put it together in my mind before, but Joff is not only a product of twincest but his grandparents were first cousins as well, that sort of thing is just a problem waiting to happen. Loved the reading of the dream! And hearing you both exploring all the symbols and archetypes.
Mama Grey and LML ! This could be a every week thing. I can listen to u both the whole day! Have you just seen the green man video LML posted today? Is da bomb! Then a podcast from you? So much juice 🥤 I’m practically a drowned girl lol 😆 And the eviction in DC? Gurl my day is getting better and better. 😻😻😻
My guess always was that the Starfall was the place where the meteorite, the source of metal for Dawn, hit. So the Starfall, so to speak, it Dawn's home, and needs to be always kept there, after whoever uses it is done with it.
In Ned's dream, Ned and his allies are like wraiths, they are the ones who are like the Others, seven against three, similar to six against three in the prologue. Ned describes himself and his allies like villains. Dawn is Valyrian Steel with a soul in it, it's why it is alive with light. The regular ones are black because yes they drink light, but don't have enough in them. The soul in Dawn is either literally someone's soul, or it was the light of a second moon, which blew up sending down meteors as described in the myths.
Lyanna was also the queen of love and beauty. The Nights queen was loved by the Nights King. And probably looked beautiful if we compare her to Mellisandre.
what part of the night's watch leaves out on the show "i'm the fire that burns against the cold the LIGHT THAT BRINGS THE DAWN" and what is the light that bring literally brings the dawn the SUN or DAWN
In an interview, George RR Martin said he’d choose Dawn out of all the great swords, because “who knows what special properties a sword made from a fallen star might have.”
robert is the worst of both worlds wrt cersei: he abuses her AND is her puppet. not that he's all bad. the tragedy is he's a rubbish king and KNOWS it.
Robert is terrible because he couldn't care less even if he tried (though he probably could). And if I recall correctly, he wasn't fighting for the throne, he only declared for it after Rhegar fell on the trident.
The dreams are not the same nor connected. Ned's dream was a flashback, a memory of what happened that day. The king's guard is not appearing to Ned. The memory of his sister, his promise, and his guilt over the way he won the fight. There are no revelations or mystic messages for him. Jamie's dream was also about his guilt over what he had done. The symbolism of the guard judging him, the men he honored above all. That's Jamie working out his own judgement of himself. That's how dreams work in real life and George has an amazing understanding of that. The dreams his characters have are so realistic. Dreams are our own consciousness working out the events of our lives. Like when Sansa was dreaming of her attack, being stabbed in the abdomen and waking up covered in blood. Her brain knew while she slept that she had some cramps and began bleeding, so it was trying to tell her, in the weird way that brains do. It was her first period and she wasn't expecting it, so it made up a story her sleeping brain would understand. That's a common dream for pubescent girls. I've had that dream so many times, but I was surprised that he knew about it. Anyway, their dreams are easy and psychological, not magical. Bran's dreams are another thing all together. His are truly prophetic and mystical.
@@traumer9622 maybe. His mind really started to open up when he started travelling with Brienne. And he got smacked hard with reality when he was captured, with no family or friends to save him. He was always decent, he just forced himself to forget that for his own sanity. But he and Ned were both basic and straight forward. There views of the world were simple. Your brain isn't going to try to feed you information that you can't decipher. But he did start delving deeper into his own psyche, so maybe.
Loved this one so much.Its been a minute that i have heard you and lml together.Some of my favorite vids were with you and lml,Quinn and Don classic shit.Thnx Gray & LML for your time.
Epic collaboration for an epic chapter by two of the best asoiaf content creators! *Quick question I may be miss remembering but isn’t Dawn made from a fallen star and that’s why it’s different than Valerian steel? It would be awesome if they forged the star using the same methods for dragon steel. If it was empire of the dawn people with dragons that would make a lot of sense. Empire of the Dawn people might even name their sword dawn. Last thing I want to say is Grey big fan your lovely as always and breaking down each chapter like this is so awesome even on rereads you still miss so much. Thank you for all the amazing work you put in!
What I Love about those chapters ( the brothel confrontation and the dream) is that Jaime is in the same position Ned was in the tower os joy, they both just wanted to rescue their abducted siblings
haha oh man I talked too much I thought, but yeah there's a lot of symbolism going on in ASOIAF.... hence my entire youtube channel lol. Glad you liked it!!
@@DavidLightbringer Don't hate me LML but you kind of did completely take over this episode. I wished there would have been more back and forth. I am subscribed to your channel. But this isn't your channel. She was so complementary to you. You didn't even ask her about her independent thoughts on her own channel. She allowed it because she clearly respects you. But learn to be a side kick once in a while. I would have loved to hear more from Gray. I love both of your channels so I was excited for the blend of you both bit it jist seemed to be just you really.
I have to disagree, Joffre and Ramsey is beyond f*ck up. They are demons ! I believe they were born that evil because no one had it worse than Tyrion and he still shows compassion.
Glad to see LML as a guest. His is the very best when it comes to breaking down the supernatural/metaphysical content in ASOIAF and turning that into some theory-crafting. That's what makes th series such a masterpiece; the fact that the books are so layered. But beyond that is the fact people can pull these ideas from it in a meaningful and coherent way. It bugs me to no end when I hear people who have only seen the show and then go and call GRRM and sadist and weirdo when it could not be further than the truth.
I believe Joffery had the potential to grow up to be normal, if he hadn't been raised by Robert & Cersei. He was already displaying psychotic tendencies when he was a very small child (cutting the kittens out of the pregnant cat), but how his parents handled it sealed his fate. If you treat a child with gentleness and love, while also explaining what they did was wrong, they'll grow up compassionate and more in tune with their emotions. Beating the shit out of a three year old does nothing to emphasize what Joff did wrong.
I do not think Ned saw Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. Ned said he had "looked for them at the Trident", but if Ned was at the Trident then wouldn't it have been a year or more since Lyanna and Rhaegar ran away? If so, then Lyanna very likely died of child birth months before Ned got to the Tower of Joy. This also explains why Ned Dayne says Jon lived in Starfall. Unfortunately for me this just raises more questions than answers about what happened at the Tower of Joy and the whole "Promise me Ned" thing.
@@lordofcastamere9376 could be. Mine was more of a joke but I wouldn’t be surprised if we see something that Meera has done since he did train her how to fight. I could see that
Ik this is random and idk if you ever discussed this but why is it that in the major events such as Aegon’s Conquest, TDOD, and even in ASOIAF timeline, the Arryn male heirs are dead and their successors are too young, thus leaving the mother’s to serve as regent?
38:20 Whoa I don't think I ever heard anyone calling Robert Baratheon a coward. But LmL is right, and Bobby B is going to be upset about it in LmL's next video.
Have to stop it here at the beginning cuz it sure looks to me that GRRM is inferring that Ned is amongst White Walkers when he sees Lyanna. 1. Ned's WRAITHS moved up besides him with Shadow Swords in hand 2. The blade was PALE AS MILK GLASS alive with light 3. A storm of rose petals blew across the blood streaked sky as BLUE AS THE EYES OF DEATH Then he promises his promise to Lyanna. This is my crazy take on this scene. First of all, this is not happening as Ned remembers. His memory has been edited just like the 3 Eyed Crow edited Jaime out of Bran's memory. The "brightness" of the Kings guard as though someone photoshopped them in and the unclear faces of his own men... maybe because they were not his men or they used to be his men. I think that Ned's encounter with the dire wolf was a preview of his encounter with Lyanna and baby Jon. If you recall Ned's FIRST REACTION was to kill the pups. I think this is his reaction to Lyanna's baby as she was ALREADY DEAD when he approached her. My theory is that the Night King momentarily resurrected Lyanna to tell Ned to promise to not kill the child. This is why Ned broke with tradition and put Lyanna's body in the crypt... to keep her there. The basis of this theory is that Bran Stark is the reincarnation of Bran the Builder who has lived multiple consecutive 2nd lives in green seer Children of the Forest and when they ran out he lured Blood Raven to his cave while he waited for his body to be reincarnated. On the other side, Jon Snow is the reincarnation of the Night King, Both Jon and Bran's present bodies are replicas of their former selves. Bran is lame and Jon is "non living". Therefore, I see this scene as a parallel to the Bran and the Catspaw. There is a theory that the 3EC actually had put Catelyn in a trance to not move from Brans bedside for days. I think something similar happened to Ned where the Night King resurrected Ned's men to fight the king's guard then resurrected Lyanna to make Ned swear not to kill the baby.
When Ned was questioning the King's Guard at ToJ, they say they were far away, they did not say they were here (ToJ). My theory was that the ToJ was a chosen meeting place, not where Lyanna was. I believe Lyanna and Rhaegar were hiding in Starfell, which also fits Rhaegar's prophecy belief, Starfell could have secret information Rheagar was also seeking whilst probably marrying Lyanna at Starfell.
What are you on about? Have you seen a medieval tower? No way can you just wrap a rope around a few of these stones and pull it down with a few men and a horse. What an idiotic statement. I live right next to a medieval stone structure here in the UK and nothing is taking that down easy. I used to live not far from a castle built in 1100, even though its a bit beaten up on some of the external defensive walls, the main castle is still solid and regularly used. LML clearly hasn't seen a medieval building. We have structures in the UK still standing from a time that England as a country didn't exist, things built before Alfred the great or in his time, stone walls/churches and buildings dating back to neolithic times, the oldest building in the UK is 3700BC!
Basically Melissandre is turning into an undead. Like the fire equivalent to the white walker. Soon even her feelings will be gone, I suppose. She'll feel nothing, won't have any memories of her past life.
How screwed-up is it that people expect you not to put up posts because of a football game?! I would never expect you or Bernadette Banner or any of the other people I follow to hold off on uploads because of a figure skating competition, including the Worlds or Olympics.
Robert didn’t want to be King. Ned didn’t want to be Lord of Winterfell, he says that over and over. However, he still steps up and takes that responsibility seriously, as opposed to Robert.
Meera talks about how her father has learned magic including making castles appear and reappear. I think Howland Reed may have used some magic to move/take down the tower of joy.
Why did Sir Arthur Dayne become a kings guard? Wasn’t he the heir to his family’s house? Why did he have the ancestral sword, Dawn if he was never gonna be able to pass it on? Do the Daynes still exist?
Towards the end of the stream you mentioned that Joffrey needed a beating. Don’t forget there was that one time he performed surgery on the pregnant cat and Robert gave him a memorable hiding. Stannis says Robert punched Joffrey so hard he knocked two teeth out and and Stannis thought he’d killed him.
Love LML’s stuff just not the politics. Love Grey too! My ‘go-to’ stuff for before the 8 th season then the 8th season happened and needed to be comforted. Lol good stuff
As soon as i heard that LML was the guest my heart skipped a bit, love you both ❤
Ned's dream is basically the "Rescuing a princess in a tower from a dragon" troupe.
Except he sees himself and his friends as villains.
My two favorite ASOIAF podcasters! bring it onnnnn
The only thing missing is Quinn
LML and Quinn are definitely two of th biggest names in RUclips ASOIAF content creators. I always love to hear my favs go over chapters even if I've read them a thousand times.
I love your guest! Such interesting ideas!
I’ve been waiting but now the wait is over! Man I love this shit!
Ned is out of his depth, trying so hard to keep the Baratheon Dynasty in power, and Robert just nopes out of it, to go hunting. And it ends with two Lannister bastards masquerading as Baratheon's, sitting on the Iron Throne, Renly (the youngest brother) trying to usurp Stannis (the legal heir), and Stannis ultimately becomes a kinslayer, the North declares for Robb, and no one cares for the Baratheon dynasty except for Stannis.
Really love your analysis of Ned's dream. So much tying into the Long Night. So excited to see how GRRM ends it.
How did I miss this 2 months ago??? This is quality material. More LML! More super-charged juice!
Love this channel, thanks, Gray
Love the episode. Can definitely tell Gray respects the hell out of him she totally allowed him to take the drivers seat. Shoes her security in her craft. Nice.
I wonder what was the King's Guards plan with the baby if Lyanna died? Say Ned would have lost, what there a plan to resist Robert's rule and declaring the new king, as Vyseris fled?
I'd love to see you guys do more stuff together 🙏💞
GRRM PLANNED IT ALL
Longer!!!!!!
Gray: "You never hit a woman, not even Cersei."
Also Gray: "Joffrey needed more ass whoopin' as a child".
That’s different, that’s a parent disciplining their child.
@@uilliamunknown4844 not really.
He should have been taught and disciplined in some way - hitting a child is never the right way
The use of violence in the education of an individual is based upon their behavior and demeanor, some folks talking to isn't adequate to convey the importance of certain lessons.
@@traumer9622 that kids a monster, idk what he needs for discipline, but he needs something.
In Welsh legendary history, King Arthur's grandfather was hailed as Pendraig (Dragon King) under a flaming comet on the eve of battle. I'd recommend looking into Welsh mythology since GRRM seems to have been heavily inspired by it.
Also, you might wanna look into the Mab Darogan (Son of Destiny) prophecy, which is still a thing in my culture to this day.
Let's not blame Robert for Cersei's madness, she is a girl murderer, when she kills her best friend Melara for thinking of marrying Jaime. She would be 10 years old and her first murder. Excellent analysis of the symbols in this chapter, Jon is the last great hero ...
On the topic of Joffrey: I think it was Cersei and Robert's fault that Joffrey came up like that. In the 3rd book, Cersei mentions Robert hit Joffrey for cutting a cat's belly. Yes, it was a sign that Joffrey was a psycho, but it was his parents' responsability to let Joffrey know that what he did was wrong, specially with the fact that he was a small child when he did it. Instead, Robert just punches him (he even loses some of his teeth) and f*cks off, while Cersei just pampers him and thinks he did nothing wrong. I mean, when she recalls the incident, she even calls it a "mischief". Cersei's such a sociopath can't even acknowledge that he did something horrible. No wonder Joffrey became a monster. Robert himself saw that Cersei whispers into Joffrey's ear and molded him to be like her.
Some apples are rotten from the beginning. No matter how much parents try to teach or punish .... these people still happen. It's not a learned or taught thing. It's a mental defect from birth. There is no rehabilitation for pedos, psychos, or sociopaths.
Cersei threw her friend down a well,a little mischief, too. Like mother, like son.
@@shawnwilt7196 its not rehabilitation to try to stop something before it happens
I only live waiting for these episodes! Thanks Gray and LML!! tow of my favourite postcasters ever
“We were seven against three” mirrors the faith of the seven against the three heads of the dragon, ie the Andals against the Dragonlords. This could echo an ancient battle going back to the GEOTD.
Great pod!
Never seen that! 😱
Lol I got too excited about Gray and LML lol I literally hollered!
The only one who kicked Joffery’s ass and put him in his place was Tyrion
*Tywin Lannister has entered the chat*
@@WeAreFourJokers I totally forgot, but yes ^^
Lol adding to that LML lyanna night queen parallel of the crypt wouldn't lyanna also be the only woman buried there since it was only reserved for kings of winter?
LML has that great podcast voice
As far as how Arthur dayne dies, I always thought the scene of Meera using her net & spear to subdue Summer could parallel how Howland defeated Arthur. Though, he probably still had to sneak him, while he was fighting with Ned. So basically, Ned probably got the killing blow but while Arthur was trapped in Howland's net
If not, then we should probably see Meera use this technique in the future, otherwise why show it?
I would gently disagree that Joffrey is sympathetic for any reason, even if he witnessed domestic abuse between his "parents". It's implied he sexually abused Tommen. And most notoriously, as a child Joffrey killed a pregnant cat, cut open its belly and showed one of the unborn kittens to Robert. An act that was apparently so gruesome it still bothered Stannis (of all people) to speak of it so many years later in ASOS. Btw, do we know for sure if Joffrey killed the cat BEFORE performing the c-section, or was the cat alive when he cut her open? I digress. In any case, Joff was a psychopath from the start. There was no amount of discipline that could've fixed him. And I can't say witnessing abuse would've substantially effected him either because he displayed psychopathic tendencies from such a young age (he still had his baby teeth at the time he killed the cat).
Maybe subconsciously we want to see him as sympathetic because we like Jack Gleeson🤷♀️.
On a few minor details- Benjen=Coldhands theory and dreams...My favorite dream disproves that theory. In ACOK, Theon has a dream turned nightmare in which he dines with the dead Starks. Starks who died dating back to Robert's Rebellion and would go on to die through the Red Wedding (Robb and Greywind's respective appearances indicate/foreshadow their fates). One Stark is conspicuously absent from this dream- Benjen. That means he's still alive and therefore cannot be Coldhands. Though I believe the Hooded Man of Winterfell is Hallis Mollen, my dark horse candidate is Benjen.
In my head, it went as Bran said-- after his group fell under attack, the children helped Benjen get to Bloodraven's cave, where he'd remain until BR dispatched him to return to Winterfell. En route, Benjen was to drop the dragon glass cache (and horn) off at the Fist for Jon. This explains why the cache was concealed in new/fresh Night's Watch blacks as opposed to tattered old blacks. From there he'd return to serve as the Stark in Winterfell as he had on previous occasions, carrying out whatever instructions BR gave him. I suppose this would be Benjen's redemption for his role in the rebellion, which I believe was helping Lyanna and Rhaegar; possibly hiding them in Winterfell or serving as a witness to their wedding (maybe even standing in for their father and giving her away). Again, just my tinfoil suspicion.
Lastly, I don't think it omens well for Theon that he was an active participant in the dream as opposed to an invisible observer. We shall see.
About tearing down the tower: it sounds like overkill to me. burning any clothing and furniture should have been enough to hide evidence of childbirth. Even if it's easier than thought, taking a tower is still quite some effort. Not taking back the bodies of his men, when it was to be expected that people would be upset over it, is very odd. Lady Dustin looking for the tower should have been a higher risk than going back for the bodies by himself. (if they died during a sword fight, like he said, there would be nothing suspicious about them. and he would have controlled who comes in the area)
this is totally tinfoil of the foiliest kind and i have no basis for this. but this kinda reminds me of quarantine meassures, or contingency. maybe something magical happened, idk. but you dont go through this trouble to hide a birth. this is like "scorched earth nobody can ever come here again" type of shit. there is definitely something we haven't been told yet
Def overkill. I think maybe he used the stones as barrow burials. Not taking bones back wasn't about convenience, if you can travel that distance with a baby you can do it with some bones. I think one of Lyanna's 'promises' was about putting her in the Winterfell crypts
@@moiz85 yes! or he could have gone back for them once Lady Dustin was so upset. saying he will personally get them because he is sorry. nobody would have to see anything then. but this "nobody can go there ever" just reminds me of how people abandoned cities after tragedies and outbreaks of disease. there is something very fishy about this
Yeah hitting kids isn't great either. I guess there's a bit of they (parents) didn't know any better, and it fits the general era. I hadn't put it together in my mind before, but Joff is not only a product of twincest but his grandparents were first cousins as well, that sort of thing is just a problem waiting to happen. Loved the reading of the dream! And hearing you both exploring all the symbols and archetypes.
Mama Grey and LML ! This could be a every week thing. I can listen to u both the whole day!
Have you just seen the green man video LML posted today? Is da bomb!
Then a podcast from you? So much juice 🥤 I’m practically a drowned girl lol 😆
And the eviction in DC? Gurl my day is getting better and better. 😻😻😻
Great collab!!!
My guess always was that the Starfall was the place where the meteorite, the source of metal for Dawn, hit. So the Starfall, so to speak, it Dawn's home, and needs to be always kept there, after whoever uses it is done with it.
LML is my guy. And I love Eddard Chapters! Salute!
Going nuts for this collab
In Ned's dream, Ned and his allies are like wraiths, they are the ones who are like the Others, seven against three, similar to six against three in the prologue. Ned describes himself and his allies like villains. Dawn is Valyrian Steel with a soul in it, it's why it is alive with light. The regular ones are black because yes they drink light, but don't have enough in them. The soul in Dawn is either literally someone's soul, or it was the light of a second moon, which blew up sending down meteors as described in the myths.
Lyanna was also the queen of love and beauty.
The Nights queen was loved by the Nights King. And probably looked beautiful if we compare her to Mellisandre.
As soon a I saw lml I did a little fan girl squeal. I love you both. Thank you for this!
Man I love this channel ❤❤
what part of the night's watch leaves out on the show "i'm the fire that burns against the cold the LIGHT THAT BRINGS THE DAWN" and what is the light that bring literally brings the dawn the SUN or DAWN
Great on with LmL. Quinn needs to make a guest appearance soon. Thanks Gray❤️🌹
In an interview, George RR Martin said he’d choose Dawn out of all the great swords, because “who knows what special properties a sword made from a fallen star might have.”
robert is the worst of both worlds wrt cersei: he abuses her AND is her puppet. not that he's all bad. the tragedy is he's a rubbish king and KNOWS it.
Robert is terrible because he couldn't care less even if he tried (though he probably could). And if I recall correctly, he wasn't fighting for the throne, he only declared for it after Rhegar fell on the trident.
LML is so intense lol I love it.
The dreams are not the same nor connected. Ned's dream was a flashback, a memory of what happened that day. The king's guard is not appearing to Ned. The memory of his sister, his promise, and his guilt over the way he won the fight. There are no revelations or mystic messages for him. Jamie's dream was also about his guilt over what he had done. The symbolism of the guard judging him, the men he honored above all. That's Jamie working out his own judgement of himself. That's how dreams work in real life and George has an amazing understanding of that. The dreams his characters have are so realistic. Dreams are our own consciousness working out the events of our lives. Like when Sansa was dreaming of her attack, being stabbed in the abdomen and waking up covered in blood. Her brain knew while she slept that she had some cramps and began bleeding, so it was trying to tell her, in the weird way that brains do. It was her first period and she wasn't expecting it, so it made up a story her sleeping brain would understand. That's a common dream for pubescent girls. I've had that dream so many times, but I was surprised that he knew about it. Anyway, their dreams are easy and psychological, not magical. Bran's dreams are another thing all together. His are truly prophetic and mystical.
I agree up to a point - but of course Jaime has the dream on a weirwood stump, so there might be prophetic elements to it
And GRRM loves to forshadow with normal events, eg the direwolf killed by a stag
@@traumer9622 maybe. His mind really started to open up when he started travelling with Brienne. And he got smacked hard with reality when he was captured, with no family or friends to save him. He was always decent, he just forced himself to forget that for his own sanity. But he and Ned were both basic and straight forward. There views of the world were simple. Your brain isn't going to try to feed you information that you can't decipher. But he did start delving deeper into his own psyche, so maybe.
GA!!!
Loved this one so much.Its been a minute that i have heard you and lml together.Some of my favorite vids were with you and lml,Quinn and Don classic shit.Thnx Gray & LML for your time.
Epic collaboration for an epic chapter by two of the best asoiaf content creators!
*Quick question I may be miss remembering but isn’t Dawn made from a fallen star and that’s why it’s different than Valerian steel? It would be awesome if they forged the star using the same methods for dragon steel. If it was empire of the dawn people with dragons that would make a lot of sense. Empire of the Dawn people might even name their sword dawn. Last thing I want to say is Grey big fan your lovely as always and breaking down each chapter like this is so awesome even on rereads you still miss so much. Thank you for all the amazing work you put in!
I imagine the Night's Queen be like Hans-Cristian Andersen's Snow Queen - cold, beautiful and capable of freezing your heart..
I love that fairytale!
Yes, who is Elsa in Frozen. 😀
What I Love about those chapters ( the brothel confrontation and the dream) is that Jaime is in the same position Ned was in the tower os joy, they both just wanted to rescue their abducted siblings
Awesome idea Dawn actually Ice.
Haha, LML having a bong cough as being introduced. Classic 😂
Gray Lady returns
Omg who else got goosebumps as they started reading?
LmL is just in another league, wish she would have let him keep going!
haha oh man I talked too much I thought, but yeah there's a lot of symbolism going on in ASOIAF.... hence my entire youtube channel lol. Glad you liked it!!
@@DavidLightbringer Don't hate me LML but you kind of did completely take over this episode. I wished there would have been more back and forth. I am subscribed to your channel. But this isn't your channel. She was so complementary to you. You didn't even ask her about her independent thoughts on her own channel. She allowed it because she clearly respects you. But learn to be a side kick once in a while. I would have loved to hear more from Gray.
I love both of your channels so I was excited for the blend of you both bit it jist seemed to be just you really.
Two of my favourite creators! Love it!
I have to disagree, Joffre and Ramsey is beyond f*ck up. They are demons ! I believe they were born that evil because no one had it worse than Tyrion and he still shows compassion.
You two are the best!!! Thanks for the stellar content!!!
These two together are my absolute favorite. With In Deep Geek coming in a strong 3rd. Currently listening to this one for the 4th time.
Glad to see LML as a guest. His is the very best when it comes to breaking down the supernatural/metaphysical content in ASOIAF and turning that into some theory-crafting. That's what makes th series such a masterpiece; the fact that the books are so layered. But beyond that is the fact people can pull these ideas from it in a meaningful and coherent way. It bugs me to no end when I hear people who have only seen the show and then go and call GRRM and sadist and weirdo when it could not be further than the truth.
I believe Joffery had the potential to grow up to be normal, if he hadn't been raised by Robert & Cersei. He was already displaying psychotic tendencies when he was a very small child (cutting the kittens out of the pregnant cat), but how his parents handled it sealed his fate. If you treat a child with gentleness and love, while also explaining what they did was wrong, they'll grow up compassionate and more in tune with their emotions. Beating the shit out of a three year old does nothing to emphasize what Joff did wrong.
You are my two favourite people! I was feeling so bad today and you brought me back! Thank you!
Yessss I’ve been dying for LML to come on! 🙌🏻
Omg!!!! its been a while since I've seen GA on my feed... Obsidian Nights.... Delicious.....
I do not think Ned saw Lyanna at the Tower of Joy. Ned said he had "looked for them at the Trident", but if Ned was at the Trident then wouldn't it have been a year or more since Lyanna and Rhaegar ran away? If so, then Lyanna very likely died of child birth months before Ned got to the Tower of Joy. This also explains why Ned Dayne says Jon lived in Starfall. Unfortunately for me this just raises more questions than answers about what happened at the Tower of Joy and the whole "Promise me Ned" thing.
The book says dawn was forged from a falling star it's not any kind of Valerian steel.
Everyone knows Reed threw a frog at Dayne
What about a Net, like Meera used to trap Summer? We all know the Crannogman are not like the rest of warriors.
@@lordofcastamere9376 could be. Mine was more of a joke but I wouldn’t be surprised if we see something that Meera has done since he did train her how to fight. I could see that
Ik this is random and idk if you ever discussed this but why is it that in the major events such as Aegon’s Conquest, TDOD, and even in ASOIAF timeline, the Arryn male heirs are dead and their successors are too young, thus leaving the mother’s to serve as regent?
38:20 Whoa I don't think I ever heard anyone calling Robert Baratheon a coward. But LmL is right, and Bobby B is going to be upset about it in LmL's next video.
If engaged in a fight to the death fair play is a fools errand. Take any and all advantages you can.
The ice Mel is a theory I haven’t heard before. Brilliant. Love it.
"Ill wear this black eye as a badge of honor"
"Keep your mouth shut or ill honor you again!"
Oh man! Lml and Gray! Yesss I love this. Now Quinn. Lmao. Or one with all 3 of you guys. My favorite RUclipsrs.
I want cold hands to be Brave Danny Flint.
Have to stop it here at the beginning cuz it sure looks to me that GRRM is inferring that Ned is amongst White Walkers when he sees Lyanna.
1. Ned's WRAITHS moved up besides him with Shadow Swords in hand
2. The blade was PALE AS MILK GLASS alive with light
3. A storm of rose petals blew across the blood streaked sky as BLUE AS THE EYES OF DEATH
Then he promises his promise to Lyanna.
This is my crazy take on this scene. First of all, this is not happening as Ned remembers. His memory has been edited just like the 3 Eyed Crow edited Jaime out of Bran's memory. The "brightness" of the Kings guard as though someone photoshopped them in and the unclear faces of his own men... maybe because they were not his men or they used to be his men.
I think that Ned's encounter with the dire wolf was a preview of his encounter with Lyanna and baby Jon. If you recall Ned's FIRST REACTION was to kill the pups. I think this is his reaction to Lyanna's baby as she was ALREADY DEAD when he approached her.
My theory is that the Night King momentarily resurrected Lyanna to tell Ned to promise to not kill the child.
This is why Ned broke with tradition and put Lyanna's body in the crypt... to keep her there.
The basis of this theory is that Bran Stark is the reincarnation of Bran the Builder who has lived multiple consecutive 2nd lives in green seer Children of the Forest and when they ran out he lured Blood Raven to his cave while he waited for his body to be reincarnated.
On the other side, Jon Snow is the reincarnation of the Night King, Both Jon and Bran's present bodies are replicas of their former selves. Bran is lame and Jon is "non living".
Therefore, I see this scene as a parallel to the Bran and the Catspaw. There is a theory that the 3EC actually had put Catelyn in a trance to not move from Brans bedside for days. I think something similar happened to Ned where the Night King resurrected Ned's men to fight the king's guard then resurrected Lyanna to make Ned swear not to kill the baby.
what a pleasant surprise having lml on this episode
Yess yesss two of my favourite people 💜💋
I thought dawn comes from a comet.
Poor Rickon.. the most forgettable Stark. 😓😓😂😂
I mean, he is 3
HOW DID I MISS LML ON THIS! so stoked to listen!!!
Omg, what did I do to deserve this goodness? I love this podcast. You have such a great personality Gray!!
What a great episode! ❤️ I love how you guys talk together and the tangents, and it’s just good podcasting energy! This was amazing
Yesssss! The combo I’ve been waiting for since your started this!
Loved this podcast. The conversation was great. Learned so much. Bring him back.
When Ned was questioning the King's Guard at ToJ, they say they were far away, they did not say they were here (ToJ). My theory was that the ToJ was a chosen meeting place, not where Lyanna was. I believe Lyanna and Rhaegar were hiding in Starfell, which also fits Rhaegar's prophecy belief, Starfell could have secret information Rheagar was also seeking whilst probably marrying Lyanna at Starfell.
LML is great too! I listen to all his podcasts
What are you on about? Have you seen a medieval tower? No way can you just wrap a rope around a few of these stones and pull it down with a few men and a horse. What an idiotic statement. I live right next to a medieval stone structure here in the UK and nothing is taking that down easy. I used to live not far from a castle built in 1100, even though its a bit beaten up on some of the external defensive walls, the main castle is still solid and regularly used. LML clearly hasn't seen a medieval building. We have structures in the UK still standing from a time that England as a country didn't exist, things built before Alfred the great or in his time, stone walls/churches and buildings dating back to neolithic times, the oldest building in the UK is 3700BC!
Waited and waited for this episode because I knew it’d be the best one. And it was
Basically Melissandre is turning into an undead. Like the fire equivalent to the white walker. Soon even her feelings will be gone, I suppose. She'll feel nothing, won't have any memories of her past life.
How screwed-up is it that people expect you not to put up posts because of a football game?! I would never expect you or Bernadette Banner or any of the other people I follow to hold off on uploads because of a figure skating competition, including the Worlds or Olympics.
Robert didn’t want to be King. Ned didn’t want to be Lord of Winterfell, he says that over and over. However, he still steps up and takes that responsibility seriously, as opposed to Robert.
Meera talks about how her father has learned magic including making castles appear and reappear. I think Howland Reed may have used some magic to move/take down the tower of joy.
Why did Sir Arthur Dayne become a kings guard? Wasn’t he the heir to his family’s house? Why did he have the ancestral sword, Dawn if he was never gonna be able to pass it on? Do the Daynes still exist?
Towards the end of the stream you mentioned that Joffrey needed a beating. Don’t forget there was that one time he performed surgery on the pregnant cat and Robert gave him a memorable hiding. Stannis says Robert punched Joffrey so hard he knocked two teeth out and and Stannis thought he’d killed him.
King Robert was definitely the epitome of an asshole. No wonder Ned told Caitlyn, “Let’s see if Robert is the man I once knew.”
Love LML’s stuff just not the politics.
Love Grey too! My ‘go-to’ stuff for before the 8 th season then the 8th season happened and needed to be comforted. Lol good stuff
Love you gray! So glad you had LML!!
Joffrey gets a whipping boy but Cersei doesn’t get a whipping lady?
I think the Tower of Joy was pulled down with magic...
This was the best. LML is the gold standard and Gray was excellent as always.
Gray area a Ravens fan. I used to love your channel. As a Steelers fan now I’m not sure
I love both of these youtubers!!!
Great podcast you guys!