Pinning a comment here for anyone that comes across this video, since the recent introduction of 'angle gating' this guide is somewhat obsolete. The additional note now is you need to make sure you change trajectory in your notch after you chaff, as missiles will less reliably track the chaff and instead switch to inertial guidance Patch notes: warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/1691
Definitely the best guide I have seen on how to use and defeat top tier missiles. Perfectly worded, nothing too fancy or complicated, and just the right amount of entertaining.
0:41 it would be the same if you was stationary, but when you’re moving Doppler shift of those waves reflected from notching target equal to Doppler shift of those waves reflected from the ground so radar filter them. It’s more complicated irl though cause irl you can change speed gates of PD radars to whatever you want so that little trick basically works only if the target is way below you (flying against the ground), constantly spamming A LOT of chaffs to emulate ground clutter while flying high or if you both are at low altitude.
Yeah I didn't want to get into the science too much in the video because it's been a while since I studied stuff like this at university haha. I have a general understanding of doppler shift, but I tried to keep the focus on how in functions in game especially given how it's not a true reflection of irl
The arrows REALLY help it connect for me! Thank you so much easily one of the best guides! I would love to see you do the arrow break down a little more in slow motion and just leave the overlay on the entire time. It might help others! Thanks for making this!
I have been practicing (and dying) a lot even when it seems like my wing tip is aligned with them and I am still getting SLAMMED ... do you need to be the same height/level with the missile as well?
@@SapphosSails You might just have your angle wrong, altitude is irrelevant. If you ever line the missile up at 90 degrees (or at least what you think is 90 degrees) and isn't going for your chaff you need to kind of wiggle your plane, try shifting slightly between 85-95 degrees whilst popping chaff Timestamped link: ruclips.net/video/fqOG7PPiOH8/видео.html have a look at that notch there, that's what I'm talking about
YES great video bro, you did really explain it perfectly you should start making more shorts for your channel to grow more. also would love to get some games together
Yeah I used to do this a lot before the fox-3 update. Could also fire them, unlock your target and let them coast with IOG before relocking when they get close
First variable is how many CM your plane has, if not a lot then try to avoid spamming Second is how confident you are, if you aren't sure I'd drop a little extra, typically if I'm notching something long range I'll do intermittent pops though, one pop, wait and see if the RWR fades or it falls behind me, if not pop again (altitude variations also help) I spam the most in those really tight close range scenarios when I know I can't line it up perfectly, so when I turn through the notch I'm obviously expecting to turn out of it the other direction as well. Here I dump chaff pretty aggressively between 80-100 degrees or so, to make sure I chaff at the moment I hit 90. As you get more familiar with how it kinda feels you'll need less and less chaff
I am well attuned to notch and chaff and it seems very commonly it doesnt work and if i knew why id probably survive a lot more. I think its either IOG on the missile or the launching plane maintaining lock and DL that makes it near impossible to chaff, R27ER is really hard to notch/chaff
Have a look in sensor view in the replay if you're ever confused what happened. Also you mention the ER and this guide is mostly intended for fox-3, in the case of SARH and the ER specifically you're going to find them a lot harder to notch. Reason being when you notch a fox-3 you're notching the missile's radar set (which is weaker), with the ER you're notching the radar of the launching aircraft which is a lot stronger, couple that with the ER also having IOG and DL you have the hardest missile to notch in the game at the moment. With the ER you'll also have to change your altitude and defend more aggressively, you typically won't get to flick off your tail to your chaff like fox-3s tend to
Hi, i really don't understant something tho, If someone launched a Fox3 lets say from 15-20 km away and i start notching, i would get two indications on my RWR during the notching. The first is going to be the enemy fighter radar, and the second one is going to be the missile. Now after the time pass by whom am i have to notch with 90 degrees, the radar or the missile?
If it's a fox-3 in terminal range like you describe then notch the missile, if the enemy plane is locking you it will just be a track warning on your RWR, the 'MSL' launch warning is what's going to kill you
Worth noting there was some changes to notching mechanics recently. I talk a bit about it in my recent Rafale video, you could also try Catwerfers video which is linked in that one
@MiGanFox3 Hello, i was so frightened about that so i was searching whole internet and i filtered it even to new posts and found your new video. So thanks for your videos! i was doing it correct whole time but IOG mode still got me
@topdave yep chaff is basically less reliable now, need to make the trajectory change as well (pitch up/down essentially). Definitely harder now, don't worry i've died plenty myself working it out haha
Please mind how I word this as I’m not trying to be insulting but have confidence and remain calm in your notching. I was making the mistake for a long time where I thought I did everything right and would try to evade thinking the notch didn’t work. This would result in the missile regaining lock and the opponent collecting a kill. Sometime the missile only missed by a few meters but once I began to trust the whole process I started having far more success with closer range notching
At long range the missile will often reacquire you, after it loses lock it will start searching again, if this is at long range you're likely still in the radar sweep, so you just have to be patient and watch your RWR. At 4 or 5km you just have to pull hard and drop chaff aggressively, much like the examples in the video which are at these shorter ranges. If it's still tracking you probably just haven't rotated enough yet
@@stannnXD No problem, F-15s mostly won't use their thrust to run away. If they do let them go, they can't influence the match from their airfield. If they keep pushing in that's perfect, let them fire their long range amraams, be patient, notch and bleed their missiles off and push in between their launches. Once you get 20km and below it's an even playing field
@@MiGanFox3haha love it man. Growth is getting there. These strategy videos are a niche, especially only when you go towards top tier. Maybe dabble in some prop 4.0-6.0 AIRRB or ground RB. A lot more players and traction to gain there
@@widowios True, I've made it a top tier niche though because that's what I play and am good at. I stopped playing ground RB a while back, way too frustrating, I could see myself playing a prop or 2 in future. And I am going to do some of the earlier jets that I like as well (been playing the F8U & F4J to level my US bomber line and they both deserve a video)
Pinning a comment here for anyone that comes across this video, since the recent introduction of 'angle gating' this guide is somewhat obsolete. The additional note now is you need to make sure you change trajectory in your notch after you chaff, as missiles will less reliably track the chaff and instead switch to inertial guidance
Patch notes: warthunder.com/en/game/changelog/current/1691
Definitely the best guide I have seen on how to use and defeat top tier missiles. Perfectly worded, nothing too fancy or complicated, and just the right amount of entertaining.
Thank you mate, glad you think so 👍
Your guides got me from a average of 0.7kd in su27sm to 3
Love the videos! You explain strategy and techniques so clearly, I can’t be the only one who appreciates it! You’re the man!
Thank you mate, glad you enjoy them 👍
0:41 it would be the same if you was stationary, but when you’re moving Doppler shift of those waves reflected from notching target equal to Doppler shift of those waves reflected from the ground so radar filter them. It’s more complicated irl though cause irl you can change speed gates of PD radars to whatever you want so that little trick basically works only if the target is way below you (flying against the ground), constantly spamming A LOT of chaffs to emulate ground clutter while flying high or if you both are at low altitude.
Yeah I didn't want to get into the science too much in the video because it's been a while since I studied stuff like this at university haha. I have a general understanding of doppler shift, but I tried to keep the focus on how in functions in game especially given how it's not a true reflection of irl
great video man, please keep it up! you definitely deserve to be subscribed
Top notch video, awesome work!
Subbed.
The arrows REALLY help it connect for me! Thank you so much easily one of the best guides! I would love to see you do the arrow break down a little more in slow motion and just leave the overlay on the entire time. It might help others! Thanks for making this!
I have been practicing (and dying) a lot even when it seems like my wing tip is aligned with them and I am still getting SLAMMED ... do you need to be the same height/level with the missile as well?
@@SapphosSails You might just have your angle wrong, altitude is irrelevant. If you ever line the missile up at 90 degrees (or at least what you think is 90 degrees) and isn't going for your chaff you need to kind of wiggle your plane, try shifting slightly between 85-95 degrees whilst popping chaff
Timestamped link: ruclips.net/video/fqOG7PPiOH8/видео.html have a look at that notch there, that's what I'm talking about
i dont know man, watched tim and defyn but really your guide was so much more usefull, i realy understand now how to notch
YES great video bro, you did really explain it perfectly you should start making more shorts for your channel to grow more.
also would love to get some games together
My fav top tier arb channel right now
Thanks man, I appreciate you 👍
such a nice video with good examples and explanation of whats happening.
Thank you mate 👍
R-27ERs are great at requiring the target with data link after it is lost.
Yeah I used to do this a lot before the fox-3 update. Could also fire them, unlock your target and let them coast with IOG before relocking when they get close
This was super helpful. Thank you.
You're welcome mate!
Actually amazing video, I didn’t know notching could be so consistent. When you chaff do you recommend spamming it or little bursts or something else?
First variable is how many CM your plane has, if not a lot then try to avoid spamming
Second is how confident you are, if you aren't sure I'd drop a little extra, typically if I'm notching something long range I'll do intermittent pops though, one pop, wait and see if the RWR fades or it falls behind me, if not pop again (altitude variations also help)
I spam the most in those really tight close range scenarios when I know I can't line it up perfectly, so when I turn through the notch I'm obviously expecting to turn out of it the other direction as well. Here I dump chaff pretty aggressively between 80-100 degrees or so, to make sure I chaff at the moment I hit 90. As you get more familiar with how it kinda feels you'll need less and less chaff
Really great video. Well explained and lots of scenarios.
Thank you mate 👍
10:30 that must be one of the clueless f16 players that have no idea how to fly that beast of a plane
Yeah he let himself get slow which is a big no no in an F-16
Really good video.
I am well attuned to notch and chaff and it seems very commonly it doesnt work and if i knew why id probably survive a lot more. I think its either IOG on the missile or the launching plane maintaining lock and DL that makes it near impossible to chaff, R27ER is really hard to notch/chaff
Have a look in sensor view in the replay if you're ever confused what happened. Also you mention the ER and this guide is mostly intended for fox-3, in the case of SARH and the ER specifically you're going to find them a lot harder to notch. Reason being when you notch a fox-3 you're notching the missile's radar set (which is weaker), with the ER you're notching the radar of the launching aircraft which is a lot stronger, couple that with the ER also having IOG and DL you have the hardest missile to notch in the game at the moment. With the ER you'll also have to change your altitude and defend more aggressively, you typically won't get to flick off your tail to your chaff like fox-3s tend to
@MiGanFox3 thanks for the help. Yea I typically don't face the er at top tier of course but was just saying how difficult it is, it's also crazy fast.
@@jaydenblain3599 Yeah it's nasty the odd occasion where someone catches you out
Hi, i really don't understant something tho, If someone launched a Fox3 lets say from 15-20 km away and i start notching, i would get two indications on my RWR during the notching.
The first is going to be the enemy fighter radar, and the second one is going to be the missile. Now after the time pass by whom am i have to notch with 90 degrees, the radar or the missile?
If it's a fox-3 in terminal range like you describe then notch the missile, if the enemy plane is locking you it will just be a track warning on your RWR, the 'MSL' launch warning is what's going to kill you
@@MiGanFox3 thank you very much
i have enough... i am doing everything exactly how u said but i cannot notch a sinlge missile...
Worth noting there was some changes to notching mechanics recently. I talk a bit about it in my recent Rafale video, you could also try Catwerfers video which is linked in that one
@MiGanFox3 Hello, i was so frightened about that so i was searching whole internet and i filtered it even to new posts and found your new video. So thanks for your videos! i was doing it correct whole time but IOG mode still got me
@topdave yep chaff is basically less reliable now, need to make the trajectory change as well (pitch up/down essentially). Definitely harder now, don't worry i've died plenty myself working it out haha
Please mind how I word this as I’m not trying to be insulting but have confidence and remain calm in your notching. I was making the mistake for a long time where I thought I did everything right and would try to evade thinking the notch didn’t work. This would result in the missile regaining lock and the opponent collecting a kill. Sometime the missile only missed by a few meters but once I began to trust the whole process I started having far more success with closer range notching
@@mathewtheis9139 yes thanks for help, i've already notched a lot of missiles and even SARH except russian ones sometimes
👍👍👍👍
What range is it most effective to notch a missle? I find at 15 to 30 it always tracks me and below it doesnt but 4 or 5 km it feels unstoppable
At long range the missile will often reacquire you, after it loses lock it will start searching again, if this is at long range you're likely still in the radar sweep, so you just have to be patient and watch your RWR.
At 4 or 5km you just have to pull hard and drop chaff aggressively, much like the examples in the video which are at these shorter ranges. If it's still tracking you probably just haven't rotated enough yet
thank you soo much with the new f15 spam this helps alot
@@stannnXD No problem, F-15s mostly won't use their thrust to run away. If they do let them go, they can't influence the match from their airfield. If they keep pushing in that's perfect, let them fire their long range amraams, be patient, notch and bleed their missiles off and push in between their launches. Once you get 20km and below it's an even playing field
Only 400 subs is crazy…
I had less than 100 only 8 days ago so I'm getting there haha. Glad you liked the video 👍
@@MiGanFox3haha love it man. Growth is getting there. These strategy videos are a niche, especially only when you go towards top tier. Maybe dabble in some prop 4.0-6.0 AIRRB or ground RB. A lot more players and traction to gain there
@@widowios True, I've made it a top tier niche though because that's what I play and am good at. I stopped playing ground RB a while back, way too frustrating, I could see myself playing a prop or 2 in future. And I am going to do some of the earlier jets that I like as well (been playing the F8U & F4J to level my US bomber line and they both deserve a video)
@@MiGanFox3 got u man. Keep it up! Haven’t really found any visual strategy explanations as thorough and condensed to the point as this on RUclips.