Archimonde and The Nether [Lore Tweet]
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- A tweet was send out about Archimonde and the Nether. In this video I take a look at what it means and talk about what I think.
/ 607225634301952000
================================================
Twitter: / nobbel87
Facebook: / nobbel.denoble
Twitch: / nobbel87
Ask: ask.fm/Nobbel
================================================
The music in this video is provided royalty free. (Creative Commons License)
Songs:The Path of the Goblin King
Music by: incompetech.com/
© 2001-2008 Kevin MacLeod
World of Warcraft® and Blizzard Entertainment®
![The Story of Sargeras [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/TtoIGzqzd7s/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Sargeras [Lore]](/img/tr.png)
![The Story of Varimathras [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/aNNuPFHHidk/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Light (and Shadow) in World of Warcraft [Lore]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/e1GZBEGSfCo/mqdefault.jpg)
![The Story of Spires of Arak - Warlords of Draenor [Lore]](/img/1.gif)
This is quite possibly the most annoyed I've ever heard nobbel
This is his equivalent of seething with rage
***** Hahahaha, that means you haven't seen the patch 5.3 robot cat video :p
Nobbel87 can you link this video actually i want to see this rage :D
Nobbel87 The Invasion of Draenor by the Legion is... well, a bit of a muck up. I do want to say though that in the books (not sure if Blizz retconned or not, in my heart they are still canon) during the War of the Ancients, when Broxigar went through the Well of Eternity portal to fight Sargeras, didn't he see endless legions?
That choice of wording back then, with your assumptions here, makes sense as both literal and figurative. Just a thought, what if Archimonde does transcend space and time, and those endless legions Broxigar saw were literally endless, from alternate timelines and such? Invading Azeroth, the "prime" reality, would be the end goal, possibly, and they can't for some reason. They can't invade our past either, as Nozdormu sealed our history and all timelines to ensure the Demon Soul would always defeat Deathwing. Seeing that portal from an alternate timeline open up to a point in time after the "temporal lockdown", Archimonde COULD literally be here with the motive to invade because of that.
Nobbel noticed me! My life is fufilled!
Thornefield I like that alot if what you say is correct about Nozdormu did seal away everything then that hole that the iron horde went though to get to ours is why archimonde toke over. and i did read that book and i remember those lines.
Let's just ignore that tweet and pretend it never happened. It just makes no sense whatsoever.
Yea It doesnt and this guy from blizzard probably was rumbling about it as long as senior lore dev. says the last word nothing is confirmed..I hope they ll clean it up in Blizzcon ^^
YOGSCAST Rythian eyyy lmao
YOGSCAST Rythian Indeed, I hope they just say "oh yeah that was a joke haha..ha.." and just end it like that.
Lemmi Winks He's the creative director.. so.. yeah.
YOGSCAST Rythian Rythian
You're exactly right, none of this makes any sense. Kind of just sounds like the developer was asked a question and he made up an answer on the spot without thinking about it.
Does anyone else smell copper?
Nemenon it makes sense to me.
if the nether is above all "realities", then all it means is that the nether is outside the scope of alternate realities and that it is unique.
what that means is that for archimonde, every alternate reality is happening in his present, no matter what timeline that reality is supposed to represent compared to ours. for him, he went into our timeline a few years ago where he was defeated in the battle of mount hyjal and sent back to the nether. after a few years of rest he gave it another try at this other reality with the help of draenor's gul'dan.
for us, draenor is a past alternate reality, for archimonde its just another of many alternate realities. we consider draenor to be a past reality but archimonde that discintion doesnt make sense since any reality he enters is literally happening right now in the present.
Nemenon hope this makes more sense puu.sh/ihmn0/bd5c7e4d34.jpg
BattousaiHBr
What about Mannoroth, though?
He gets killed by Prime Grommash in WarcRaft III, defeated in Well of Eternity thousands of years ago, killed by Alt Grommash in Draenor, and is gonna be killed again in 6.2.
Could you please make sense of that if everything that happens and happened is happening now to a powerful demon? Or is that exclusive to someone like Archimonde or Kil'Jaden?
Nemenon This makes sense if you think about it well enough. What about it confuses you? As stated in game and by Nobel, we "know" our reality in WoW is the prime reality. All others spin or diverge from us. This means all things in our realities work under the same rule. Our Outland is prime outland and so forth.
This goes to explain how the Legion can become so vast and numerous. If the rules are as i believe they might be,
Rules:
Can only Conquer a planet in an alternate reality if the prime planet has already been taken
-This could explain why no alternate Az. has been touched as far as we know.
-This could also explain why they are soo keen on our AZ being the prime and all
-----Along with the Old Gods as well ;)
Can only interact indirectly until summoned unto that plane of existence.
This can also explain why the Burning Legion events have changed on this Dreanor compared to ours.
-Like why was Guldan contacted first instead of Nerzull?
-Well they learned that Nerzul will never fully trust them, and will betray them at ever turn, he has done so twice before already
-They knew Guldan was loyal due to the power
archimonde be like
wait... you... i remember you.
IN THE MOUNTAINS
as the lore begins to crumble, so does the game itself sadly.
Thespectre82 Stop being so dramatic. The guy probably had no idea what he was talking about.
Gabriel Dasaro If thats the case you're just kind of reinforcing my point. "That guy" is getting paid to know what he's talking about.
Thespectre82 No, I'm not reinforcing your point. People can make mistakes. They are problably going to correct that tweet soon enough like Nobbel said.
Gabriel Dasaro Thats the thing, they dont keep track of it anywhere near the level fans do, so they're reaching a point where they're painting themselves into a corner to allow for new content. When stuff stops making sense, and these guys start posting dismissive answers with a "Because we said so" attitude, it turns people off.
Thespectre82 Don't you remember when a fan had to correct them on their own lore at blizzcon about Falstad not dying in Day of the Dragon? Yeah...they can't keep up with their own storyline or they just stopped caring all together.
"All realities, all dimensions are open to me!"
/Prince Malchezaar
I want to see King Arthas and Queen Jaina reality.
Nobbel I think you might want to go back and look at the conversation after that tweet, it was then cleared up that he was joking... so none of this video is needed
Alex Lockwood Where does it say that he was joking?
Nobbel87 twitter.com/Abrosiabi/status/607237134727049216 He mentions there that its all different. I realise my first comment sounded rather condescending, didn't mean it to come out like that
Alex Lockwood No worries would love to see a tweet that makes it all just a joke ;) Think he's laughing it up about Old Gods and what not *shrug*
Nobbel87 Yeah the tweet this video was about in the first place certianly wasn't needed. But I think given that he was making a reply about the Old Gods to another confused fan I feel this 'its all a joke' tweet extended to demons too. If not then as you said it sticks up a huge finger to warcraft 3
Alex Lockwood And this presents a huge problem in WoW nowadays, Blizzard makes one move and everyone complains about it. Everyone goes insane about nothing! No wonder Blizzard is so hesitant about reaching out to their community, they would get ripped apart instantly.
Ok, here's my theory:
Archimonde's soul is anchored to the nether, yes, but there isn't only one Archimonde. Imagine there's a single "Archimonde's anchor point", and Archimonde's soul is tied to it by a rope. This same anchor point is tied to the other Archimondes, from all realities. When one dies, he respawns there and waits for Blizzard to call him back. However, if we killed him in the nether, his anchor point would be destroyed, killing all Archimondes in the process. So, WoD's end boss isn't our Archimonde. But he is. He won't remember Hyjal, because he didn't experience that yet. And our one won't suddently remember "hey, those guys in AU Draenor killed me", because it wasn't him (although it kinda was). When we kill Archi in the nether, we won't have to care about his other versions, because they'll all automaticaly die.
Leonardo Vieira Péres In the notes for the new raid there was a comment about entering the twisting nether in the archimonde fight, so that would mean killing him before he showed on Azeroth.
Leonardo Vieira Péres That is a good point BUT:.. it would mean if we ever got to The Nether there would be INFINITY archis and Killjaidens waiting for us couze they would come back to defend theyr ,,Anchor point''... but
Boro XD yeah I though about that too.
maybe there would only be a single archimonde there, and he divides himself when leaving.
maybe only our one would be visible and interactible.
or maybe we would actually have to face loads of Archis and Kils. this is just the best explanation i found :P
i dont think Archi And Kill are powerfull enough to Divide themselfs and still do shit...Sargeras yes...but not them.read my coment and see what I think about it ...i posted it 2 mins ago
Boro XD All divisions would have the same power as the "original". And they wouldn't be a threat because each one would be in a different reality. Sorry if it's hard to understand, it's because of the whole "alternate universes and timelines" thing.
I think that its a good idea to have ONE legion that transcends reality. It makes it feel like we are actually DOING something that matters for our timeline. We are fighting the same enemy, not an alternate version. Transcending time can be a little trickier, but it can be explained similarly to how the Caverns of Time is explained. Imagine the nether works like our Caverns of Time. Access to different timeways and universes. The legion failed in our "timeline" so they try in another, and maybe they succeed. Maybe they tried in our timeline MULTIPLE times and failed, we would only know the one timeline because its what we experienced, if they were to go and try again in our timeline, it would split into another timeline.
Riley So for the legion, trying to do something like destroying the world tree in our timeline for a SECOND time, would mean nothing to us, because its taking place in another time line. Could they come back to our timeline in the present? Yes, and we would handle that when the time comes.
Think of all this as the way its explained in Back to the Future.
Riley Maybe there is something special about our timeline (because it's the Prime timeline after all). Which is why they insist on raiding it even though they have access to countless others.
Enmanuel Garcia
Exactly, which is why they cant just go back and say, try to attack the world tree again in our timeline, because once they did that it wouldnt be OUR timeline anymore... if that makes any sense xD
Riley If that is true (and I like that idea too), there's one reality where Velen accepted joining the Burning Legion and became a demon. So we could have that demon version of him fighting against us. And, consequently, they would have a corrupted version of ALL intelligent species we know and don't know, because of the infinite possibilities of the infinite realities. It wouldn't be a problem in a logical way, but I think it isn't something I would like.
Riley this way , once tere are infinite timelines , they would conquer and multiply themselves in other ealities , and after just crush in 2 secounds everything in our timeline , u nkow , and over powered Sargeras , with an overpowered Kil'jaedan and an overpowered Archimonde at his side... that would be just , explode our world , no way , i think that it was better: 1 Legion - 1 Reality
Hi Nobbel,
I do think this decision can improve the current state for the following reasons :
1. If the Burning Legion was affected by multiple realities as well, Sargeras could just replicate millions of Sargeras, Archimondes, Kiljadeans. Meaning that Kairoz or Nozdormu could be extremely strong pawns. Leading tu terrible implications, which would make us question why the Titans would give such power to bronze dragons. By keeping a single legion, it becomes a single threat with actually more power, as it can learn from mistakes, and strengthening the idea that there's a single main time line.
2. If there's only one Legion, there could come a second aspect which would strengthen lore: the Legion is always seeking to exploit when mortals meddle in powers they don't understand (in this sense time). This means that new timelines are created from the moment you dabble with it from the main one and the true reason why it should be guarded for mortals but no for eternals (because they are unaffected by it) and give such power to bronze dragons. So assuming that there's only one Kiljadean, he could try to take advantage of this new window with his original plan and see how it went south not knowing Garrosh's participation in it. This would explain why Guldan knows so much of our time line afterwards, as his lords provide him with further insight understanding the new conditions.
3. The legion's main problem to conquer a world had been reaching it and not its ability to overpower it. This could be a new way the Legion intends to further their plans to conquer Azeroth, bringing the story forward and make it matter to us. Cause if this was simply an alternate Legion, it would be a weaker Archimonde, Kiljadean and Sargeras (as we do know how everything went and they dont) and would stay simply be an encounter with past versions of them rather than the actual meaningful battle.
4. I think Archimonde knows who we are (ants to him) and that we tricked him last time. This makes him particularly dangerous, as he knows we don't have tree to blow this time. So a full scale invasion wouldn't be able to be stopped the same way. This would justify his strong intentions to come into Draenor and rebuild the link to our world.
Tell me what you think about it.
And this would tie to the idea that Old Gods aren't eternal beings. As maybe why they do see seek to corrupt the bronze dragonflight into infinite, as they can as well become infinite and become an even greater threat. This would explain the original idea of avoiding this time manipulation by the Titans and would imply the idea of Old Gods trying to overpower them in new ways, as they can't defeat Titans or the Legion by themselves.
But if there's one legion, the legion can take a bajillion world trees, archimond can go super sayin, and kill us in our realitt
Dawson Vanorsdale The answer to your question actual might bring some lore sense to the caverns of time. Let´s just assume for the moment that since eternals are unaffected by time they can travel through dimensions but they can´t actually create new ones. This would actually explain why the bronze dragon flight needs to protect the timeline from ignorant mortals that try to meddle with it and their main purpose: preserve a single timeline and avoid creating new ones. Why avoid create new ones? Because eternals and Old Gods could take advantage of this and wreck havoc. So why do we prevent Arthas from dying on Stratholme or Medivh from being killed during the opening of the Dark Portal? Because doing so would create a new alternate timeline that could give the opportunity for a new World Tree, more dangerous invasion of the Legion, and more Old Gods.
Maybe the Infinite Dragonflight in their desperation is trying to replicate what happened in WoD to boast Azeroth defences during a Legion invasion.
Maybe this makes some sense to you? It´s not bullet-proof but I think it can provide interesting story development in my opinion.
Dawson Vanorsdale From what I know, the infinite dragonflight is affiliated with the Old Gods, but they come from a future version of corrupted Bronze dragons. We still don't know what motivates them. Seeing that aside, do remember that Wrathion helped Kairoz, and cooperation in the future wouldn't be unprecedented.
Dawson Vanorsdale on your comment for alternative Azeroth, that actually enriches the idea that this Draenor is extremely important for us. The plan to link Draenor to alternative Azeroth when Garrosh decided to target the main Azeroth and we ended destroying it. This means that alternate Draenor can serve two purposes to the Legion, an entry point to our Azeroth and an entry point to alternate Azeroth. If the Legion controls this Draenor, we are pretty much screwed cause even if we break the link between the time lines, they will have access to a New World Tree and obliterate us later finding a new entry. I think this would make the expansion meaningful, as we have to care of Alternate Draenor's fate.
Think of it like this guys; Anyone who plays a warlock will know that when you summon your demon it is always the same demon. This is because it is a specific demon that you have contracted into your service. If that demon should die in our realm, its soul returns to the nether. Should you decide to re-summon your demon you'll notice that it still has the same name. I believe what Blizzard is trying to say is that this applies to all demons. So Archimonde and all other demons remain in The Nether until they are called upon. The dev said, "The Nether transcends all realities." So you have to think of "The Nether" like a room that is completely detached from every timeline/universe. This room contains nothing in it except demons. When a warlock summons a demon, a door will appear in that room and allow a demon to cross over into the warlock's reality. Thus the timeline/universe on the other side is irrelevant because no matter what universe the warlock summons the demon from, it is always summoning it from the same "Nether". There are conflicting issue like multiple warlocks on a single server having a demon with the same name summoned at the same time. However I am unaware as to if multiple lesser demons can share the same name.
I really hope Illidan is powerful enough demon to still live in twisting nether :P. Also Archimonde's body got destroyed so he might look differend.
Stavehill
He is my favorite character in warcraft lore :(
Stavehill I think Outland is technically in the Twisting Nether, and us killing Illidan in the Black Temple means that he is dead for good. Hope not, but the lore would suggest so.
:
Yeah illidan and Kael that's were my fav lore charcacters.......then burning crusade happened.
I love so much that you used a picture of Owlman when he's explaining the DC multiverse for this. Crisis on Two Earths Hype! XD
Joshua ThreeFiveFour same here.
+Joshua ThreeFiveFour I was looking for this comment :) Saw the movie 2 days ago xD
Collin Seefat enjoy it?
WoW shitting all over the warcraft universe lore again? What a surprise!
If they ever make a Warcraft 4 RTS, they should ignore all that happened in WoW.
I'm completely on board with this. They can restart with Arthas' awakening from the Frozen Throne, and everything that has happened AFTER it was just a bad dream inside Thrall's head, perhaps even a vision of what bullshit is to come.
Joner Boner Or one of the many false timelines that Nozdormu is aware of and was reviewing to see if anything of value could be salvaged.
I wish but that seems to good to be true.
Joner Boner it won't happen and you know it, remember diablo 3?
***** I think they could get away with it if they say that WoW is an alternate timeline to what a new Warcraft RTS will establish. I wouldn't really want WC4 to be made in the WoW setting, that's for sure.
If I'm honest, I'm not surprised to hear about this. Ever since Archimonde was announced as the final boss of 6.2, I've been wondering if WoW demons were actually "above time" in some description, especially since we have characters like Velen and Gul'dan constantly saying things like: "Gosh, this was not meant to happen." It seems to me that there certainly are creatures that are capable of moving freely through the fourth dimension, and that they may be sharing knowledge with mortals.
Of course it does raise a lot of questions, and it can be argued that as soon as a franchise starts dabbling with time travel and alternate dimensions, things are bound to get needlessly complicated.
For now, though, I think there might be ways to make it work. Based on what I know right now, my tentative model for how time works in WoW is this: The universe is naturally a multiverse. Timelines split off all the time, and the very notion of a main timeline is unnatural.
Enter demons and the Twisting Nether, a place that exists outside of the timelines. These guys have the ability to hop in and out timelines as they see fit, and can corrupt an endless supply of worlds. If they happen to lose in one world: no problem! They'll still have won in an alternate version. Better yet, they can just get out of the timeline in which they failed, jog upstream (back in time), and try again. And here you have a foe that essentially can't be defeated, at least not by beings who reside inside timelines and play by time's normal rulebook (mortals).
So what do you do when your opponent keeps cheating? You out-cheat them! The titans came along, saw things were getting messed up, and decided that as long as there was a multiverse, there was no winning this fight. So they manipulated time, drew as many timelines together as they possibly could, and made it into a single, enormous timeline with a very strong "current", making it very hard to travel in any direction except "downstream". Powerful entities could probably still pull it off, but it would be exhausting. Alternate timelines could still exist, but they were cut off from the main line if they proved to be incompatible, like you would prune sick branches off a tree.
Picture it like this: if the multiverse in its natural state is a river delta, then the alterations the Titans made have turned it into a long, very wide, and fast flowing canal with steep banks.
Now I do think that achieving such a feat is impossible on a universal level; the universe is just too vast. But you probably could do it on a planet. So the titans would have done this to only a few of the worlds they visited, hoping to make them very hard targets to hit for the Burning Legion. In Azeroth's case, it may be the presence of either the Old Gods or the Well of Eternity (or both) that made the titans decide that this was not a world they could afford to lose to the Legion. On Azeroth they left the Bronze Dragonflight as an extra fail safe to keep the planet nice and isolated from the mayhem of the multiverse. Demons attacking Azeroth now faced a number of challenges: their actions no longer always had a positive outcome, no matter what. There was always one outcome only, so only one shot at victory. If you failed, that's it. Also, the fast current would have made it harder for them to breach out of, or back into the Twisting Nether in the first place. They'd usually require some inside help (summoning), or a source of power to focus on (Well of Eternity). Another side effect is that time on Azeroth flows faster than it does on most other worlds (explaining the confusing age discrepancy between Thrall and Garrosh, for example).
With the events of the Cataclysm the Bronze Dragonflight have lost their power to police the timelines of Azeroth. This is not necessarily an immediate threat, since they were only there as a backup plan, but their dwindling influence is going to be a problem on the long term. Of course, this may simply have been part of the titans' plan. Perhaps they wanted to give Azerothians some time to develop into what would eventually be the Army of the Light, then gradually lower the planet's temporal defences and allow said army to clash with the Legion.
There are of course still problems with this model, and things that would need to be worked out, but this is where I'm currently at. Just a theory. :)
Blizzard have always said that demons can only be killed in the twisting nether.
Beholder505 Typically yes but we mostly believed this applied only to the Nathrezeim cause they for sure just get sent back to come back. With Archimonde we were always lead to believe we straight up killed him at Hyjal, removing him from the Legion altogether.
Th3Kingism Did they say it only applied to the Nathrezeim?
Beholder505 They never actually said that in so many words it was assumed so because of a BC quest.
The quest never made sense in the first place. It takes place in Outland which is in the Twisting Nether which is the only place you can kill a demon for good. Yet the quest text says the demons keep returning if they are killed so you have to banish them....
Dreadlords are the only demon that have consistently shown to have the ability to return after being slain.
Th3Kingism Well they confirmed a long time ago that it isnt Nathrezeim what they mean with a demon. Demons for them are souls that are completely tainted by the Fel energy. Illidan according to Blizzard is a demon so I would guess that Archimonde an Kil'jaeden been demons make the most sense.
That's not what's in question here, Luis. Archimonde and KJ are definitely demons, noone here doubts that. What we're talking about is that blizz made us believe that nathrezim were the only demons that could return after we killed them, and that demons like Archimonde were dead for good when we killed them on azeroth. That's what we were lead to believe, and that's what we are questioning, not the fact that they are demons.
Dear Nobbel,
I hadn't heard about the dev tweet. So thanks for talking about this. However I began to believe it could be the same Archmonde the moment Blizz released the Hellfire preview and the text which came with it.
"Designer note: We planted some seeds that this confrontation might be coming in the level-up quest experience. In the original timeline, Kil’jaeden was the broker behind Gul’dan’s dark deal with the Horde, but here-thanks to Garrosh’s interference-he failed, and so Archimonde was entrusted with the task of finishing the job. There are a couple of nods to the old Battle of Mount Hyjal encounter (Doomfire was mandatory), but Archimonde has learned a number of nasty new tricks since then. Although you have the greatest heroes of Azeroth and Draenor standing beside you in this battle, even they cannot aid you within the Twisting Nether itself. . . ."
So this implies that Archimonde is now in fact returned back to full form after the events of WC3? This would also seem to suggest that the Burning Legion of WoD is in fact the same Burning Legion of our normal time/universe as well. Suggesting that our time/universe is the prime one, or that the Titans and Burning Legion live outside our general aspects of time/universe and are allowed to pop in and out of what ever universes they wish.
If this is the case it can lead to some interesting further expansions on this story. That being that out of all times/universes/realities that ours is maybe prime but at least so far the most powerful for having been able to withstand the Burning legion up to this point...
This needs further clearing up.
Was what I had posted to the blizz site in the discussion/comments on it.
t ru Because if he has learned new tricks since Hyjal that would then imply its the same one. Because if this was an alternate reality Archmonde, how would he have "learned" these new tricks since he never went to Hyjal and died lol....
Murloc reality is best reality
mrlrmlrmrlmrmlr
I never imagined that I'd enjoy a rant from Nobbel, but holy shit that was beautiful x'D I literally teared up laughing at ' now let me try to take your tree :D '
Whilst slightly confusing it does kinda make sense. Keep with the multi-verse theory, lets look at it this way.
Our time line, the main timeline we're experienced in all of Warcraft is the main timeline, the most important one, we have the time-watches, the bronze dragonflight etc looking out for THIS timeline.
Then you have all the other timelines around it, timelines where we have seen into, dabbled in, etc. Think of the 'Nether' as the webbing that binds it all together, the nether IS ABOVE it but not in it, like webbing. The legion know that they can play around in these other timelines (As we've seen) but at the end of the day their main goal is to destroy the Azeroth of OUR timeline, the main one, the big cheese.
It would make a few things now make a little more sense - aka;
Blizzard website talking about Archimonde being ''back and learned new tricks since Hyjal'' - Yep, ass kicked in Hyjal, he got tossed back to the nether, and now his back again in this reality, trying to cause havoc.
It would also explain WHO'S been feeding Gul'dan information about our main-time line, if the Nether is above it all, then clearly the demon that Gul'dan is on the phone to knows all about our timeline.
It's the simple way to look at it, I'm sure their is more complexity and things that need ironing out, but it does make sense if you look at as a ''net'' theory.
i love how fast u uploading another videos :D always like learning more about wow lore, keep it up!
"It's all one big mess"
Current WoW lore in a nutshell.
Thank you a lot Nobbel. As i read the tweet i was like "Whaaaaaaat?" and you did a great job figuring out the errors caused by it :)
"Am I wrong" hahaha I think you and every one knows the answer to that... No, you're spot on.
Also Archimonde and Kil'jaeden started off non demonic. So when they became demonic all of their different forms in each different reality became one?
Daemons and old Gods transcend time, I think it's a safe assumption if not fact, if you were to think back to the events of the Well of Eternity Archimonde did step on Azeroth before but this time there is an Orc taking part in the battle before they were tainted by the blood of Mannoroth. Also players take part in the original Well of Eternity battle, not the book where Rhonin and Krasus interfered. I think this could be an alternate timeline for them as well where Archimonde is...above it all. I think this is bordering on Wh40k territory in terms of how Chaos is well everywhere.
Alternatively I could be wrong/confused. I love these vids Nobbel you keep me occupied at work, thanks :D
If the nether is a above all it means the burning legion want to destroy the main timeline and reality to destroy all further one.
I myself agree with their version of nether, coz it would be pointless to have multiple versions of Burning Legion, b4 they announced that I was already thinking that there is only 1 nether for all universes, what I did not realize is that I was one of the few who thought that way.
Meh, I kinda like the idea. And you can always explain it by saying that the Legion doesn't really gain shit from destroying these alternate Azeroth, that they only care about Azeroth Prime.
Mazzmaker69 Yeah but if you think like that , there is no Azeroth Prime. And why is theis Prime more special then the others. And haveing a intinity number of posibilitys how can they just not conq Prime with shit tons of infinite reality slaves....Its mindblowing how bad it went.
Mr. Himp as Aman'thul said: there's only one TRUE timeline, all the others are false (or something like that)
Mr. Himp Maybe because Sargeras wants true dominance over all timelines to prove his might over the titans, but because the rules of summoning demons (big demons need big power to be summoned like the sunwell or the well of eternity) the things that made it impossible for him to conquer us is the only thing that he wants to destroy, if the prime timeline heroes surrender to sargeras or he builds enough power to destroy everything without salvation then he could win in all timelines, he just needs a plan with 100% chances of winning, no room for error.
And still, haveing infinite posibilities= infinite easy worlds= infinte slaves and warrios witch means its Bullshit that he can`t just come with hes army and just kill everything. And I`m not talking about demons cause they are form unic time line, i m talking about all the ppl that we conqerd ( Btw english is not my 1st language and i`m doing my best)
Mr. Himp The problem is that he can't enter our world without a really big magic source to summon him, the closest thing that we got is the well of eternety (blown up) and the sunwell (purified), also the sunwell can only summon Archimonde or Kill Jaeden, is not strong enough to summon sargeras
I can't help but feel like Blizz needs to call Nobbel and say "Hey, this is what we're doing, are we breaking any lore?"
What if, him saying "The Nether transcend space and time" means that there is the possibilty of travelling to different dimensions... You know like we did? And that maybe Archimonde, one of the most powerfull demons in existence, can manipulate time and space at his full potential? What if The Burning Legion decided that they could follow us to this alternate timeline, destroy our greatest heroes, and the conquer our defenseless planet? Does that also sound ridicoulus? What if they're setting up for a massive comeback? But since this was found to be a joke by the developer i'll stop. But don't just hate on something immediatly, find the positive things about it instead. Not hating on you Nobbel, i just think you were to quick to judge. The beauty of Video Games is that they do not have to follow logic, they do not have to follow rules, you can alter them in a moments notice.
"The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction has to make sense" -Tom Clancy
It not being directly in the real world or not being a format set directly in the real world is not an excuse. If you create something you make your rules and follow them with few exceptions.
David Molbek I don't know what beauty your drinking but video game is a fiction so it has to follow the rule. It has to follow the logic it created. It has to have the integrity. If it is not following the rule why even have a story that matters. Just think up anything in your mind and leave it there because it is not going to matter.
I know everything about a fiction is bullshit but what makes a good one different from a bad one is that good one has a bullshit that makes sense to the players and can be explained by its own terms.
Deproid No idea is bullshit and fiction is an idea, rather it be a complex political treatise or a well-put together fantasy world all ideas are worth the same, it is in aplication that they gain value. There are plenty of pieces if architecture and people that were inspired by things like Star wars and Star Trek both of them being fantasized universes and concepts, but when applied they changed the world and there is nothing more real than that. That far outweighs the the political treatise that mean while has been thrown out by the current political zeitgeist as being unrealistic. I'm tired of people saying fiction should not be discussed or has less value than events or ideas used directly on the world, fiction works indirectly and in that way it is great because it often gives people who want to escape reality a way to understand the real world without being overwhelmed by the outside.
Deproid You know what can't ever happen? Continuing a story forever without making some changes to it and giving your own reasons why the fanbase didn't know of the "changes" before. Who says the Nether thing wasnt ALWAYS canon if the tweet wasn't actually a joke and we just haven't been let know? Are you a Blizzard writter/programmer/designer/ANYTHING? Doubt it. Who are any of us to say whats right and wrong when we aren't the ones writing the story. Sorry to be blunt but this infantile bitching is pathetic, everyone crying about it needs to shut the hell up and get over it or go the fuck away because theyre not needed or wanted in the community if they can't just enjoy the story and game.
"All realities, all dimensions are open to me!" - Prince Malchezaar
Could be meaningful here. After all, we still haven't really been told how Malchezaar gets his hands on Gorehowl (Unless I've missed something, which is entirely possible).
what if they've conquered all the other azeroths in other realities except for ours and we are stopping the same Archimonde that tried to destroy our tree but in a different reality but hes the same one (can't continue with out brain melting)
When I heard what you said about the Burning Legion not finding a reality where they win, I was reminded of this quote from the Wheel of Time.
“No, child. There is one Creator, who exists everywhere at once for all of these worlds. In the same way, there is only one Dark One, who also exists in all of these worlds at once. If he is freed from the prison the Creator made in one world, he is freed on all. So long as he is kept prisoner in one, he remains imprisoned on all.”
And also, I think this Archimonde we fight here came to Draenor "from our timeline", that is to say, he already fought as at Mount Hyjal.
This was surprising to hear, very odd choice that makes the story of Warcraft III feel yet more meaningless, imo.
I actually kind of like this mysterious and hard to understand lore in a game, because it keeps you hyped to see more of the story and that's what makes WoW so interesting for me. I don't play the game a lot anymore since I'm too busy with RuneScape and stuff like that, but I still watch all of your videos and frequently read the free books on the WoW website. So far I've always agreed with your opinions, but I'll have to pass on this one as I think they're doing a great job and I kind of understand what they mean by a Nether that ascends all realities :-)
Can blizzard stop fucking up the game's beautifull lore, like in burning crusade?
That is all
lol got to love nobbels passion for the lore in this video :D
Hey yo nobbel, please tell us the twisting nether lore
ГАНА АРЯ nondont he doesn’t understand the concept of it
On one hand while I feel like many aspects of WoW are slowly crumbling, along with the developers drive to even be feasible and just use the "because we said so" method to create an entire lackluster expansion (from Ner'zhul being a brushoff, to Kargath being the wimpy first boss, to kilrogg drinking just cuz, to the reason we're there in the first place, etc.) I can KINDA get where Archimonde could work this way if we wanna get timey wimey about it.
Naztherim are demons tied to the twisting nether and when killed their physical body leaves and they return to the twisting nether, so why not Archimonde as an all powerful one. Over these many years he could have regained his physical body within the twisting nether and has found a way to reach this alternate universe (if we can why not him) and is coming for seconds like Ragnaros. So all in all, this all still sounds stupid.
I'm just getting very tired of Blizz's inability to use any finesse, care, or general smarts when handling a story so wonderfully woven. How can you make something so lush and beautiful and say MEH to so much fucking shit.
WHY COULDN'T WE FIGHT THE NAGA AND QUEEN AZSHARA AND N'ZOTH AND THE EMERALD NIGHTMARE, ALL THINGS THAT EXISTED IN OUR TIMELINE IN THE OCEAN. WHAT HAPPENED TO KUL' TIRAS? WHO THE HELL WAS DYING TO SEE ALL THESE OLD ORCS BACK IN ACTION.
You'd think with the most popular MMO there is they'd care about all this but they don't, and it's beginning to sicken me. They're trying to make their own lore because they want WoW to be an entity now away from Warcraft's roots, but they're doing it with such little care it's awful. There's so much rich stuff in the current timeline, why do we have to beat the dead horse THAT WE ALREADY KILLED, SOME MORE. Why do I have to kill Archimonde again? I feel like I'm doing the bear ass daily not reminiscing on nostalgia. I don't have a feeling of epicness when I encounter anything "dangerous" anyway, it's all content some person facerolled through while eating a hot pocket and passing off their inability to put time in and reap the feelings with "I work 10 hours a day at bed bath and beyond and I can't see anything epic in all my greens so fuck this game blizz get it together I want to feel good about myself".
Rant over. That got out of hand.
afk throwing up rainbows. >_
I think this is a good direction in the sense of creating something substantial. If there are always burning legions to fight in alternate timelines, then it will always be a World of Warcraft. Blizzard has my support of having only one Archimonde, Balnazzar Sargeras and any other demon/titan. By doing this it gives the potential for a finality in the story as well as a sense of accomplishment in something that "doesn't even matter to the prime timeline." What this means is that we don't have to worry about his return when we kill him in the nether. When they come back, he won't be a part of it, and that is a neat idea to me.
Nobbel ik ben best een groot fan van je, ik heb weinig tijd om het te laten blijken. Maar hier maak je echt een groot verhaal van. Daar doe je jezelf geen dienst mee. beter verwijderen.
thx voor de upload elke maandag ochtend saaie boekhouddag:)
Love your videos Nobbel87, they are really well done and I do enjoy how well you go into depth about adventures that impacted them and how they made the character who they are today. Personally I choose to ignore Blizzard's tweet, cause like you said it creates a bizarre plot hole and it makes no sense. Also I agree with that it screwed over Warcraft 3 plot as well. And I do also agree with your opinion that its 1 legion and thats it. I also waited for them to finish the Neptulon story but all of their focus was on Firelands and I was quite furious. But I think their setting Neptulon to be a plot line in Azshara/old god expansion thinking like a Valithria Dreamwalker find of fight. I can only hope Blizzard removes this tweet and say "We got you guys good, it was just a late april fools joke etc".
Nobbel87
I have given some thoughts and this is my interpretation of the tweet:
Archimonde's Soul is bound to the Nether and the Nether is above all => Archimonde's Soul transcends all realities, not him entirely.
Whenever he is "killed" in some reality (ours or alternate Draenor or else), his body dies, but his soul is kept, so he can respawn somewhere else.
Now comes the part with the memories and would he remember us. I assume something like in Buddhism, where after death you are reborn into something else, but have no clue of you past life. This is why he won't remember us from Mount Hyjal.
It sounds a bit too philosophical and stuff, but I hope it is like this, instead of messing the Lore more.
I'd love to hear your opinion on my thoughts.
Regards,
Viktor
I like it. It means we're facing an enemy that it's hard to even wrap our heads around, which is a good thing. If you understand your enemy completely then that makes them feel weaker, but when they're not understood it adds an air of fear and mystery around them, and makes them seem more daunting to go up against.
The Nether transcend all realities, but time in Nether is connected to the prime reality.
--> the Archimonde is the same we banished from Azeroth in W3, but 30 years older. He might thing: I'm stronger and there is no stupid tree or Malfurion, I just kill them.
That is how it is.
6:20 - I have the explanation for it. What if all universes and realities are frozen in time if you are looking on them from Twisting Nether? So basically 10 000 years in Twisting Nether = 1 second in all realities. So he can go to Alternate Draenor in WoD and till he will be ressurected again in a Twisting Nether.. it will be only 5 seconds in all realities for us? So after defeat he can be ressurected and jump into some portal in Legion "portal room - the window to all realities" and blow up some tree :D Basically when Archimonde was summoned in Warcraft III, before this event or after this event he could be in WoD fighting against us. It was just a few seconds in time flow between Warcraft III/WoD, but milenia for Archimonde stucked in a Twisting Nether. Thats also the explanation why Kil Jaeden couldn´t kill Lich King on Azeroth maybe and sent Illidan instead to do it. He had a Sunwell raid on his list or manipulating of the orcs of Draenor in another timeline.
Obviously this tweet comes from the place of "The Legion needs to stay the 'big bad' or else what are we supposed to be fighting against?" Which makes sense as a franchise
However, I'm actually in the camp that it's more understandable than it seems on the surface? I'd like to think that Archimonde, Kil'Jaden, Sargeras etc live on the plane of the Titans. This plane is eternal and removed from the lesser planes, like Azeroth's. There could be a few of these planes and I like the idea of the Naaru coming from one, for example
Anyways, they can see these timelines and enter them at separate times not relative to our own time. So, Hyjal Archimonde could be his first try or his last. Newer Archimonde could be before he attempted Hyjal, or after. Because time does not matter to them and the order of things may not be the same
This does beg the question of why the Legion hasn't just succeeded and then attempted 'harder' timelines right away, but the Legion, perhaps, hasn't won any except the easiest? Maybe those versions were so weak that it was no challenge and the main timeline slaughters them easily? Maybe the bronze dragonflight knows more about why they can not win? Maybe there's a reason, a wall, from the Titans that makes this reality so difficult? Because it's not destined?
I mean, the Legion is huge and overflowing. Maybe a lot of the timelines have been taken over. But maybe there's a few, especially the main one, that is just so abnormally strong?
So, it makes sense for them to be on a separate plane not tied to our laws. It makes sense it's the same Archimonde at vastly different times and not in the order we perceive. It makes sense that they're tied to this plane and it makes sense that there's some sort of abnormality to our own Azeroth's reality
I mean, at least from what I figure. Who else has a world where the majority of the populous are incredibly strong soldiers, mages and the like? Lol
I liked this one, amazing explanation. however just because the nether trandcents all realities doesnt mean the demon's soul goes over them all aswell.
Though they not tweeted it, they also proved another stupid thing in their Hellfire boss review.
"Even in death, his blood (Mannoroth's) was used by Gul’dan to fuel a dark bargain with the Iron Horde and their allies."
That is just stupid. When our Grom killed Mannoroth, his blood lost all its powers. And since these new fel orcs look different from our old fel orcs, they could have made them drink another demon's blood.
I think I’ve an idea. The Nether is not bound to one reality and there is only one Archimonde, which implies there is only one timeline. We stripped another reality's past and added it to our reality with the red portal. What will happen to this "ripped" reality is unknown and probably will never be dealt with. The fact that through these events Gul'dan is alive and hungers for power, the Legion tries the same thing they did 35 years ago, but because of the events in our reality with slightly different results.
And for the timetravel and other reality confusion, you have to keep in mind, Blizzard is dealing with the fact, that changing this past Dreanor events, will ADD to our timeline and reality, not alter it. So this is not a past that tries to reverse the events on our past Dreanor, it is another opportunity for the Burning Legion to enslave the Orcs ones more.
Or maybe the Nether is not bound to one reality and also not bound to one timeline, but our reality is the only one that is not conquered by the Old Gods or the Legion.
Archimonde to Thrall: "I remember you! In Nordrassil!"
I knew the tweet was really problematic but I didn´t realize how many things it actually screws up. thank you for the video, Nobbel, it makes more sense now. or less actually.. go home, Blizzard, you´re drunk
What the original poster is saying is that the nether is outside the prime timeline. If the prime timeline decides to open one of the millions of possible alternate realities then they can show up/influence it. From my perspective they can only do this through an event that happened that caused us to be on draenor in the first place. 1 timeline 1 possibility. 1 timeline ( kairoz opening the portal to draenor) 2 timelines now all in junction with the prime but subsequent timelines can affect the prime time line.
But, If archimonde is coming to alternate reality draenor / alternate timeline of the universe, surely that would mean that this version of him is different in such a way that it wouldn't impact the story of the prime universe we exist in, so we're acting in a different universe / timeline before the events of mt.hyjal therefore our history is totally out of the question, because if this archimonde is of a different universe / reality but his essence is locked to an alternate nether surely its like we're playing a game, within a game in some form, also I agree, if the legion have the power to scout out these timelines, why not just go to the start with a sort of shadow council army from a reality totally disconnected from ours and take on the titans? my head hurts.
Keep up the great work as always!
What if the timelines between the alternate universe and our universe is offset? That the whole time of the alternate universe is 30 years behind ours; meaning our year 30 is equal to AU's year 0. If the Nether then trancends all realities, but is still affected by time, then the Archimonde we face in Hellfire Citadel will be a 9 years older Archimonde than the one we fought in Hyjal (but still the same!).
I'm quite new to the WoW lore, but this (kinda) made sense to me. :o)
The tweet also creates an interesting theory for the Archimonde encounter in HFC, when we take a look at the dungeon journal:
"When Archimonde reaches 40% health remaining, he trancends. All of his enemies are drawn helplessly into the Twisting Nether, an endless, chaotic space from which few have ever returned..." (ptr.wowhead.com/npc=91331/archimonde#encounter)
So maybe a mythic only phase (or even the normal encounter) ends in the Nether, where we finally get rid of Archimonde for good? >:)
Since it's stated that he has learned new tricks since Hyjal, this is the same Archimonde, after the tree, traveling back in time to a different reality. Hyjal happens beforehand for him, and he will not know the heroes then.
The solution to time and space control is... they can't control where they end up while in the nether. They can be summoned to realities and times, but not choose that one over there ripe for the picking.
I think that why the Legion keeps going to our reality is exactly why Nozdormu is there. Because it's the prime. Taking over the other realities would be more of a hassel to the Legion since its not what they aim for, and the reason Archimonde appears to the new Draenor is simply because we traveled there, take advantage of split up forces. All in all I think its a pretty cool idea.
I'm happy with the first part of the tweet, confirming that not only Dreadlords are anchored to the nether. By that logic it means Illidan could be out there somewhere. However the second part doesn't sound well thought out at all, I hope if they retcon the post, the only retcon the second part
I don't play WoW, but really enjoy the Lore. Warcraft 2 was one of the first video games I ever played, along with Lemmings and a 90s wire-frame tank combat simulator thingy. When I look at what Blizzard did with Warlords of Draenor, I see it as a testing the water. I treat it the same way as the new Star Trek movies. They went back in time, but created a divergent timeline, tapping into one of those infinite possibilities. I think they stay close to what people are familiar with to avoid separation anxiety, or something. I like the idea of the Twisting Nether being on a separate plane of existence. I feel like when/if the heroes encounter Archimonde they'll recognize him, but he won't recognize him.... That's what would do in this situation.... Although, it could just be a drunk tweet....
What I like to think is that since they no longer can be killed outside the twisting nether, the Archimonde that we will be facing is from our current time period in the Prime world of Azzeroth. With this being said he is reaching across time and space to where we are currently located 35 years ago in the past on Draenor, with the intentions of trying to take down our prime world.
As to why they do not choose a weaker reality to conquer, perhaps the legion itself is also anchored to the Prime Universe and is only able to access other worlds the same way we are.
Maybe the Legions overall plan is like Owlman, simply snuffing one reality out of existence isnt enough to tip the balance and destroy the whole of reality. They need to destroy the reality that spawned them all in order to wipe it completely out. Thats typically how alternate reality villains plan to destroy the multiverse, thats how Owlman did it, thats how Shredder in the Turtles Forever movie did it. To destroy the whole of reality you need to destroy the source in which all reality spawned from. Azeroth Prime.
"Now let me take your tree..."
This single line made my laugh for 10 minutes straight
Can we all just take a moment to think about the possibility that this tweet is only meant as a troll? Nobbel, If I know you, than you are the ultimate WoW lorekeeper, and possibly a bronze dragon in title. you must realize that this is not how things can be, and that its simply not possible, unless the tweet was only meant as a troll and a tease to the fans, to keep them riled up for more draenor and future expansion action.
Alternate realityes do not collide or interfeere with each other . Thats it . Archimonde can go trough realities , but the prime reality and the alternate ones will not interfeere . Or , just call Chris Metzen , tell him to deal with Sargeras and the legion .
Back in I think it was day of the dragon norzdormiu talked about how the timeline was like a frayed string with tangents going everywhere. It could be possible that a large amount of all these timelines where stopped at different points by the legion. That could also be another reason why they are so confidant they can destroy us, because they've done it before.
My thing is making it so the nether allows you to go between realities gives us (both the players and npcs) a meaningful reason to be here, more than the excuse of, we're nice guys here to help our alternate younger bros. Now beating the legion here, is still a win for Azeroth Prime.
Twisting Nether is complicated already. Because some things hint that it's also the place souls go after death.
Remember some Scarlet Crusade mobs in Tirisfal Glades? When they aggro, they sometimes say: "You carry the taint of the Scourge. Prepare to enter the Twisting Nether."
Yes, that's what they say when they are killing me with a sword.
Love the Owlman touch. Great job!
I remember in a tweet where they said there while the Demons are infinate, the Titans, like Sargeras, are bound to a reality and thus are multiple. I wish the inverse was true. Demons are bound to one reality, but the Titans transcend all realities. And maybe it's up to Sargeras to grant knowledge to demons as he see's fit. For all we know he may have taken over many realities already, but transcending them to bring in a massive army is an undertaking he doesn't have the power to do.
In each reality once events have happened they cannot be changed, perhaps you can find one who's universe started 30 years early, or 30 years late, and exact plans there. But if his ultimate goal is the Prime universe then the other victories are unsatisfactory. It still doesn't clean up every inconsistency, but it sure as hell sounds like a better explanation then the tweet.
This is precisely the reason why people should ALWAYS tread carefully when making a time travel plotline....even the TINIEST of changes can fuck up the entire story,the tiniest of mistakes can have an enormous impact....
I gotta say, I squealed a little in happiness from the Crisis in Two Earths pictures popped up.
"I wonder if you still have any trees you're gonna blow up because YOU'RE GONNA NEED IT!" rofl i love you nobbel
7:25 "They cannot aid u within the twisting nether itself" . This could be a way blizzard trying bring back illidan or alleria and turalyon. Think about it guys, at blizzcon 2011 Metzen said he would bring illidan back as a redemption story. This could be the perfect chance as illidan is already a half NE half demon , and demons go to the nether when they die to recover , which they really did not actually die. Anyways , thanks nobbel ! :)
That's standard procedure for demons in fiction, I've literally never heard of a demon story in which demons weren't only banished when killed in "our world". Likewise the nether being seperate from the timelines makes sense, the twisting nether is outside of our universe, the great dark is space, their are multiple great darks, and the nether exists outside of it. I imagine the nether doesn't give a shit about any non prime realities. They don't care about Draenor #45, they only care about the real one.
The nether existing outside of our time, the Archimonde we killed on Draenor is the very same Archimonde we fought at Mount Hyjal. The idea is that he died in our world, went back to the nether, and when Garrosh anchored that new draenor timeline to ours he saw a new oppurtunity to invade, he doesn't care about that draenor, and I doubt he could reach it if it weren't anchored to our world, he just uses it as a staging area. He's however many years older than the archimonde we fought at Hyjal, it's the same guy, killing him there doesn't affect "future" events because Draenor isn't in the past, it's in the present. As you said, there is one legion, only the one. There may also be only one set of old gods, but that's neither here nor there. The only awkward thing is stuff like Mannaroth, is there only one Mannoroth or is he dead. Is he banished to the nether?
If you think about it, although this tweet opens up a can of worms, it's much better then what we had with draenor before. If there are infinite realities each with its own archimonde, kiljaeden, old gods etc.... Then what is the point of our struggle? Even if we defeat sargaras there would be infinite versions of him spread across different universes so eventually he wins cause there just aren't enough of us. This way we are the prime universe, meaning while they can take over other realities they can't win unless they come here and defeat us. And once we do defeat them because they're outside if reality we win permanently. It's not a perfect solution but its better then what we had.
Multiverse theories usually go for the plot device, that if you destroy the primal universe, all the alternates will also be destroyed. So that's why The Burning Legion is focusing on our universe and not the others.
And i think that this is hinting towards the alternate Draenor we are on, is "a little behind" in the timeline. As in the timelines of all multiverse dosen't play events and choices in sync.
So the possible story is that The Burning Legion found this alternate Draenor and decided to use it as a second try, but this time they skipped right to Gul'Dan to get the invasion going quicker. But as an almost last good action Garrosh thwarted that.
I just had the silliest idea ever.
First things first:
You create a paradox with Archimonde being in the past on alt Draenor and then going to battle of Mt. Hyjal, which is impossible when when the battle has already happened. But with the multiverse theory time can work differently, alt Dreanor's 30 years in the past can equal our future, meaning that we didn't actually travel back in time, just crossed realities. That could explain why Archimonde remembers Mt. Hyjal.
And now the silly theory:
The reason Twisting nether trancends reality, is because it is the MAIN reality, the far future, where the burning legion has won, and taken control. It could be the reality where The Titans (which I assume also ignore the laws of one reality) have been beaten or jailed, or something. Once the legion has won it had nothing better to do other than break reality itself, and finding out the multiverse, where Sargeras just goes conquering universes one by one, adding them to the Twisting nether.
No, they are not bound by the rules of time. They are above the alternate realities, so I guess they can sort of pop into them as they please. So the Archimonde we faced at Mount Hyjal is the same as we're going to face on Dreanor.
I agree with everything you said, but its kinda logical that The Legion should transcend over the multiverse (which also implies that the Titans do too), because if the multiverse is a true one that means that there is an universe with no Legion, one where Sargaras didnt go nutz.But as you said that if they also transcend time itself it would create a lot of confusion.
PS: It just hit me, since we are very likely getting an " underwater" expansion with Azshara and N'zoth we might get to see Neptulon in one of the raids/dungeons. And if we do so, do you think he will be an ally or an enemy(being corrupted and all that)?
Thanks for the awesome vids.
I still think Archimonde should STAY a tree 'hugger' instead of being in WoD Hellfire Citidel confusing all of us lore freaks by melting the story then stirring it in with BULLSHIT.
1. Just because the nether is not linked to one reality, that doesn't mean they can acess anyone they want, there might be limitations
2. There is a main reality, so it doesn't matter if the legion wins in a alternate reality.
Here is one thought on it.
Think about the dark portal, it connects one place to another, when destroyed that link is gone, it can be recreated but until it is there is no link.
The nether is its own reality more or less that transcends all, however a link is still needed, so if it does transcend time its not like they can go to the past just like that, once the link to that time period is broken, that's it. With the prime timeline being defended I doubt the legion can easily breach it so I think all this is doing is giving a way to link the burning legion to all realities, so that any crossing you are always dealing with the same legion.
The legion would be focused on the prime timeline, all others are seemingly pointless, but if any others cross paths with the prime timeline then it gives them an entry point.
Nobbel. So mad. So charming. Take me Nobbel, here and now.
I think what they are trying to do is solve their infinite number of burning legions problem that you discussed in a previous video. To make our fight with Archimonde feel more important. Obviously this will not solve that problem and instead create new ones, but I think I see what they were trying to do with it.
Maybe it's like in DC comics, Crisis on infinte Earth. Where as if you destroy Earth Prime. You destroy all realities.
Maybe our Azeroth, and our universe is "universe prime."
So, if they destroy Azeroth Prime, then every other reality would also be destroyed.
I don't know... Im sure im not the only one who thought of this.
I fucking knew Nobbel was gonna make a vid about this when I saw his response to the tweet.
"I wonder if you have enough trees to blow up" said no mortal in Azeorth ever
I think they want to make some kind of Interstellar mindfuck with Burning Legion and Twisting Nether. If they find a good explanation for all lore problems this tweet brings, it could even be a good plot twist. Imo Burning Legion now seems much more dangerous and bigger treat which we wont be able to just kill off.
TheThirdLip Does this make Illidan truly dead since we killed him in Outland which is in Twisting nether? :/
"When past and present collide, the fate of all worlds hangs in the balance."
The nether transcends all, but the demons are only interested in destroying the Titans work, thus attacking what the titans assigned as the main timeline and assigned the bronze dragon flight to protect. They invade draenor because it is now directly connected to the prime timeline and thus a way back onto azeroth once more, like outland once was. They are able to circumvent the rules of time while in the nether, but not on azeroth due to the titans protection through the bronze dragon flight. They are able to go to Draenor and invade through draenor since the link between the world was made by a rogue bronze dragon.
"Now let me try to take your tree." -Nobbel87
Im dying.
+Nobbel
About the part where you say that the legion can't possibly fail in all realities, I agree, but I think that they need to conquer all realities in order to succeed, the same way that they want to conquer all worlds/planets. Plus, if they're after magic energy, It would make sense if the "prime" world would have more energy since it is more real than the other realities.
For Nobbel, I think the legion is only "truly" concerned with taking the Prime timeline (For the same reason, the titans wanted Norz to protect it whatever that may be, however I can't recall the lore perfectly,) However because the heroes would be strongest in the prime timeline they can't just barge in and take it as we've seen their previous attempts going awry. Perhaps they are using the Infinite timelines to strengthen themselves run simulations to try and find a way around this problem. Tell Me if this makes any sense to anyone, but it's a way i thought of it going down. ALSO! The arcimond (spelling?) We fight here does not have to be the arcimond we fought at "Our" hyjal because arcimond was not always a demon he was not always bound to the nether, there might be multiple arcimonds as well, each trying to pass knowledge of past familiars onward.
TLDR: There are realities in which the legion has won, but the "Prime" timeline is special and is the only one the legion is concerned with taking, for the same reason the titans wanted it protected. These fringe realities are only testing grounds for tactics they want to use on true azeroth. (I'm not genius, just a thought that popped into my head, most likely with potholes abound) And this arcimond (Spelling?) does not nessesiarily have to be the arcimond we faced, due to the nature of reality bound creatures, in a multiple reality setting.
Hey Nobbel, I love your videos, but you're drawing your conclusions too quickly on this one.
This makes very much sense and is a good thing for the WoD lore. Before, we thought that this was just an alternate Archimonde, we kill him, who cares, this is just alternate Draenor anyway. That has been a problem for WoD, that everyone we do here is just alternate.
Now that we know that there is only ONE Archimonde, there is a point that we kill him. In the mythic fight with Archimonde, we go to the Nether and kill him which means he will be gone forever, in all realities. This is important to know because if not, we could just have killed Sargeras (which will be the end boss of WoW) knowing that he would still be alive in another reality. Now we know that there is only one of them, so their death is eternal, when killed in the Nether.
They can travel through space and time, but their timeline is still linear. So when we kill Archimonde now, he wont go back to Nordrassil because in his timeline he has already been there. So his timeline is: dies at Nordrassil -> his spirit goes back to the Nether -> goes to Draenor and gets killed forever. And you may ask why doesn't he just go there and do this and this? Because it's extremely hard to travel through space and time, it's not something they can just do. They had to use the Sunwell to summon Kil'Jaeden, and Kel'Thuzad used the Book of Medivh to summon Archimonde. So pushing Archimonde back to the Nether in WC3 was a huge victory, it's not like he could just pop back in.
The tweet cannot be reversed because it's the truth. We already have had many signs of this with for example Prince Malchezaar and even warlock pets. They go back to the Nether when they die and we resummon them.
Keep up the good videos. Time traveling can be hard to wrap your head around :)
"wha!??!?! WHAAAYYYYYEEEEE!!!!" - Nobble de noble
His soul is anchored in the Nether. In Mythic, in last phase, he takes us in the twisting nether to fight him there. We kill him there. He dies forever.
*spoilers for 6.2*
I agree with what you say Nobbel, but I think that this is also a way to make it connect more directly to our timeline. Draenor has been very disconnected storywise from the rest of World of Warcraft, because it feels like such a grand departure from the previous installments, in that there feels like no direct threat to Azeroth with the Dark Portal disabled and most of the Iron Horde disbanded. I think they're including the Cipher of Damnation in 6.2, so I guess that's a link and makes Gul'dan a bigger problem, but it's still not enough. Plus, I think that you even made this point back pre-WoD about how there would be demon influence in the end boss (back then still thought to be Grommash) and you said something about "Is this the same Legion? Wouldn't it be stupid to be like, "oh hey, we killed Archimonde, but don't worry, there's another one over here!" I think both that point and the ones in the video are valid, but I'm guessing that Blizzard just sincerely hoped people wouldn't read into it too much. If you don't think about it, it makes sense. The Legion transcends the realities much like the Titans do, as it seems. If the Legion is presented as the counterpart to the Titans, then it's a fair point. Moreso, my one counter to you is that, couldn't the Legion be timeless and bound to the Nether, and still not have it effect our timeline? There's nothing to say that even though there are all these "realities" around, that they're happening all at the same time. We're on Draenor "35 years ago" but it seems like their events couldn't happen until our Garrosh and Kairoz went there, so maybe AU Draenor's timeline starts now? I know that seems sort of gibberish, but like you said, with alternate realities and timetravel, you are given the freedom to make up your own rules. At the end of the day, I agree that it seems like a cheap fix. But I think that it's honestly Blizzard's best choice to tie this expansion in storywise with the rest of WoW to make Draenor feel like an actual threat to present day Azeroth.
Bliz dont give a shit about lore since Wrath, they have either been popping out shit like popcorn out of their ass or fucking up the good work they did in past.
Maybe they only have contact with realities connected with the "prime" reality, and since Draenor was directly connected to the prime reality the twisting nether as we know it is also connected to it, so basically it's all the same legion but they can only go where we can physically go.