Whilst I do agree with your decision, one warning about rewriting code from scratch because it got too messy: It will always get too messy. I've been a full time software developer for over 10 years and every single time you start a new project with the best intentions but then a few months down the line there's things that you hate about the way you coded it and you think "if I could just start over, I'd do it so much better". But then the same thing happens with your next project eventually too. Having said that, if you were very new to programming when you started this project then yeah it probably could just be a lot better all around if you started it again now
Totally agree; this is how your projects end up in 'development hell'; you can *always* do better. if deciding to rewrite; you have to clearly give yourself tasks and scope and a plan.
I agree but I think there's nuance to this. I think as a beginner, there's things you know and things you don't know, and then there's things you don't know you don't know. Those unknown unkowns, when discovered, will sometimes warrant a full restart because you built your project not considering them at all and could be so important and big that the only option is a total restart. With experience that happens less and less until you don't need to restart but you write things in a way that makes it easy to expand or refactor. Live, fail, learn and try again. That gets you pretty far.
I'm sorry but I will call bullshit on this one. When your programming skills grow to a certain degree and you read enough of high-quality code & work with talented engineers, you eventually reach to a point where your codebases can be super clean. I have been working with Unreal for around 6 years. Restarted my project 4 times. But current iteration is coming along extremely well, and I am proud of how clean & efficient and powerful my current iteration of codebase has become. (Matter of fact I even carried over some code from 3rd iteration because I was already happy with some of the systems) This notion of "it always gets messy" is just inexperience to be honest. It does happen very frequently when you are working with companies that try to rush results without having a good understanding of how code works but is definitely not always the case.
All else aside: (1) refactoring is great for learning, and (2) not all refactor are equal; some are more long lasting and or necessary than the many others.
"Messy coding" is a valid way of learning. You don't forget the design principles and you're better able to structure it for your project. Each project you do, your codebase improves, but unfortunately, each project will continue to have 'messy code' as you keep learning things. So it's really an inevitable problem, but if all you do is hyper-examine the flaws in your current project, you can't appreciate the understanding you accrued that will culminate in your next one.
I'm glad you recognized the best advice and then made an intentional decision about what you would do. You were also 100% correct about what needed to be done and it looks like you're taking on head first. Bravo to you!
As someone who has been following the development of this game from its announcement and playing the early demos, I’m really excited to see the art style overhaul and seeing what comes next! 2025 can’t come fast enough.
I'm glad you are planning on working with an Artist. Art is huge and I think too many solo devs believe it's taboo to stop being totally solo, even if they have weaknesses they don't feel equipped to overcome yet. Regarding the story, just be aware it will draw Celeste comprisons due to the genre of game. Best of luck (and hard work).
The lighting make a huge difference! I did the same thing earlier this year, scrapped a project I put a lot of time into (~2 or 3 months of work) and started from scratch. It's turned out way nicer than I could have imagined. I'm certain you'll definitely have great results as well, its worth it!
4:25 guys look he said the the thing!! Also I think you should keep the original version as part of the game when you release it as a small throwback and a cool little thing for older players
I literally was in your shoes about 2 and a half years ago. I rebuilt my game from the bottom up, rewrote all the code, fixed and refined MANY things, and now I have a showing on friday at a convention called San Japan here in San Antonio. You got this!
Honestly I wish you the best of luck with improving your game. Seeing how this has developed overtime, I couldn’t be more excited. It’s nice to see that you found your own lost resolve (see the pun? no? ok I’ll see myself out) and decided to keep working on the project
First time seeing the channel. I identified with the message - just another person with life struggles and a dream involving gamedev. Keep on going and enjoy the process, always :)
It's great that you're staying open to feedback and trying to be objective. The takeaways you have about what's there so far not being up to par are well reasoned and honest. Some harsh advice: You might also want to check if this is the right game to focus on if you're already looking to overhaul and make huge changes. There's a lot of competition in this space of 2D pixel-art platformers and the ones that do well all have at least one truly remarkable aspect. Pizza Tower, Celeste, Sonic Mania, name whichever are your favorite and take note that they were exploring something new that can't be found in their contemporaries. Hopefully you can find what that element is in your game!
I recently did the same thing. Two weeks ago, I began a refactor on not most, but literally ALL of my game. I didn't have any walls of ifs, but I do have a much more technically demanding and logically complex title than what you're designing.. And class structures, dependency chains, and just over-reliance on inheritance (which led to countless splits and subclasses that made things too complex) ended up making progress extremely difficult in some areas. And I decided I needed to optimize it, make it easier to work on, and also to bring the art up to date as I had improved dramatically as an artist over the years. So I went back to a capsule character, on a level made of a plane with a skybox, and built it all over again. I remade my input manager, my control schemes, redesigned my building system (the flagship of my game) and deleted all my animation pipelines. And here are my honest feelings on it, now several weeks in: It's the best decision I've ever made as a developer, and also the most depressing. The systems I have finished rebuilding are something I never could've achieved working around the old systems. The build system evolved to a point I got private funding for a 3 minute gameplay demo: Because the issues I had polishing out controls and hitting that last mile of making it more intuitive? I closed that gap by just rebuilding, which I had failed to close by iterating for literally 2 years. But the systems I haven't finished? It's daunting, intimidating, and also somewhat depressing to know I can't show those off. That they don't exist, and so I don't have that progress to show the world. I know I can rebuild all of it within the month. but the realization that it isn't there now.. It's actually hurting my motivation. Yet, I also realize this was objectively the best decision. because every single thing I finish is just so much better than what I was working with before. And expansion is coming easier and easier. but again, my project's scale is a bit bonkers. Not just for a solo dev, but for an indie, or really any size of studio. So maybe your experience won't be the same as my own. But I turned 6 years and 82 gigabytes into a full restart and I have 812 megabytes to show for it (thankfully, my game won't ever be 82 gigabytes. There were just millions of old prototypes that never got fully deleted until this restart.) My skill as a developer, which I didn't have when I started, is showing most brightly now that I restarted. But it's a skill I can't really show anyone, since I'm building up from zero. Though, I am doing so VERY quickly. So this conflicted feeling will be temporary.
And, I think the most unexpected thing I've come to realize is this: I am placing a whole new level of pressure to perform on myself now. Before, prototypes were prototypes. But now, I feel this added incentive to perfect them. And it's actually pretty exhausting. By showing myself how much better i could be doing, I came to expect I MUST do that everywhere. It's a double edged sword, but arguably also the biggest negative. Because it isn't just about rebuilding what I had before: It's that I have to build it better now. And sometimes, that is literally "just that easy." But sometimes, it's extremely hard. Especially with the art: Sure, I'm a much better artist now. But that doesn't mean I'm sitting on a perpetual pile of inspiration. I still get stuck. And when I do, with this major overhaul under my belt, it hits harder than it did before. It makes me question myself more than it used to. This is arguably the most negative part of remaking my entire game. I proved I CAN do better.. Now I feel I MUST. And it's wearing me down more than I would've expected.
Making a decision to refactor or rework a game is very daunting, but I think there are definitely cases where it's worthwhile. It really comes down to what's necessary to attain the vision you have for a game. If I were to keep expanding the old version of Lost Resolve, for example, I'd constantly be stumbling over the lack of organization and overall poor code, and it would hinder me from achieving that vision. I'm sure it's really hard to be in that in-between period of rebuilding, and constantly thinking about all the work that still needs to be redone - especially with a large-scale project. But if you're passionate about a project, I'm confident that your passion will carry you through. Best of luck to you!!
2:24 part of me wonders if that's something I work with. Because im gonna be real, as much as I want to make videogames I never really do it. Mostly because I do hold back on those big dream games just as... Well you know "when I get good" or whatever. I think for my journey right now im just going to try to build up skills, and some of that will come from making projects I just think I have to not be afraid to take a step into my "dream game" sooner than I expect I guess.
I feel this so much, having come to a similar realization on my own project. Although your 2-3 hours sounded like a solid length already. Obviously it's your choice to refactor or not but I'd probably just have wrapped up what I had.
I started a project and 3 months in I started over and accomplished what I did in those 3 months in 1 week. The project I have now is going to be finished regardless at this point but it's not my dream game so to speak even though I don't really like using that term as I love designing and making games so much every one I've done has been a dream game simply because I love doing it and I don't have one single idea that I don't absolutely adore and love. Good luck!
afterimages are a great change, and already look good, but maybe you could consider adding extra effects to the moves that use it, especially the slide and stomp; could be a variety of things, but even something as simple as small, partially transparent speed lines could make a big difference. also, the wall jump and the stomp's ground connection could use a little more visual feedback too.
I have done that for my most recent project, I started it and dint do things very efficiently or organically. I spent a week recreating it while keeping most of the code. It was a very good choice as I had remade certain things more modular. I think that just starting a project and getting the idea out of your head is a good thing(no matter how janky). 😊 love the progress can’t wait for it to come out❤
Super excited for what comes next! But also maybe consider not having unlockable moves, I think games that have all your abilities from the very beginning are way more interesting and replayable than ones that have a kind of progression system. Imagine all the cool levels you could make with your full moveset in mind, rather than the shlocky tutorials you have to make for each new ability, and having everything that comes before having your full moveset be boring comparatively and all that. You could just make like 2 or 3 tutorial levels and then boom, full fledged levels that use your whole kit in interesting ways. Hope you consider it!
Yes yes and yes. I agree with you. I'm the same kind of person that wants to do a big game and it's the only thing that motivates me enough. I've restarted my game 3 times, and every time it has been worth it but the 4th is sticking. Here's my two cents, write code in a way where you could always replace it easily. Suppose you have a state machine in a script, well, write in a way where you could easily replace it with another one. This way, you'll never be afraid of deleting chunks of your game, or rewriting bits of it without burning the whole thing. It takes practice to understand this but if you can make your code be like a lego, where you can easily replace one thing with another, you'll get to places you didn't even dream of. You can prototype and create new features or experiments quickly without breaking the whole project. Ideally you don't rewrite the whole thing and you get to the finish line but I do think that as we learn, it's completely necessary to burn it to the ground and start over.
I think the assets and sound redesign will be great, with save slots and controller support being tantamount for your sales. I don't see much value in a new dialogue system. If the focus of the game is on speedrunning, I would keep dialog and story to a minimum so to not overload you with scope creep, but you know best what your vision for this game is! When it comes to new abilities, I would also consider having all abilities being unlocked from the start, even if they are not immediatly introduced to the player, so speedrunners/experts can use them to ram through the initial levels! Related to the new abilities, I feel that for a game focused on speedruns this is missing advanced techniques. I'm not talking about unlockables or anything, just advanced ways of using existing abilities (such as the various advanced movement techs in Celest!).
Oh man is this exciting. This has been one of my most anticipated projects, and I love to see you putting in the extra effort to make it the best version of itself it can be. I'm also looking forward to the art overhaul, as that was what I considered the weakest part of the game so far (Also if you need a composer for the music, I know someone who is incredibly talented and would be eager to work with you, no pressure though). I'm also really looking forward to the story. I find with games like this, a sincere and poignant story told with a lot of Heart can be great for the player's Soul ;) Wishing you lots of luck!
I think this is pretty much inevitable, it will happen again and again. As we are always learning and changing, its normal to look to stuff that we coded in the past and realize you couldve done better. I havent been working on my game that long and already want to rewrite lots of stuff. Good luck!
The game looks great. The fact that you even started a game is more than what most people would accomplish. I'm working on my first game and I still don't know what I'm doing completely. Do your best. I support you buddy.
the new bounce move doesn't really *look* bouncy enough, i'd recommend adding a few effects to make it look/feel better to use (forgot to say this here but this game looks really fun to play and i can't wait to play it myself)
There could be a skill to unlock which could make the wall jump from wall to wall a lot quicker, just holding the jump button, I think it would result in some cool aesthetic for the speedruns
The after image makes it look speedy and ghostly at the same time! It's a very subtle but fitting change on the look. Idk why the character has a sword if she's not going to use it by the looks of it, maybe there's another mechanic or deeper meaning. If it's just for decoration I would go for more of a thief or assasin look but it wouldn't be a fit given the story I don't really know.
The sword is just something that these assets happened to include... With the custom assets I'm planning to incorporate, she probably won't have one. I'm still tossing around ideas for her final character design, and I think the artist I'm working with will be able to help with that as well!
As for cutscenes, there are a few things I'd suggest. 1. Since it's a speedrun game with good movement, make them entirely skippable so people who are here just for the gameplay won't get interrupted. Also, avoid non-story cutscenes if they're not skippable. 2. Avoid the scrolling text like you managed to avoid in the prototype. Instantly appearing text is actually much better, especially if the dialogue box length varies from one word to a few sentences.
Man watching this sounds a lot like what i went though with previous game attempts, i know that feeling of "should i redo it?". But since i started working on a game i really like genre wise i stopped asking myself that, so my question would be is this the type of game you enjoy playing too?
I think one important thing is to not get caught up too much on your first game. Your first game will always be janky. You should have realistic expectations and just keep going with the next projects. Not only you will gradually build skill, but you will gradualy build a fanbase that likes your games. Regardless of how good your game is, there are dozens of great games that never 'took off' and never sold more than 50 copies. All game development as a business is up to luck - so amount of work you put into a single project is a risk you have to manage.
TIP: I have been doing this my WHOLE life and the biggest thing to keep in mind after such a decision is: IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE BAD. Not the visuals, the code. You're always learning, forever. You're always making decisions, forever. Games take time, LOTS of it. You're never going to be super proud of your code, and even if you are, people don't play code, they play games. This is not to say that architecture is not important, it is. It is PRIMORDIAL. But, you should always decide on a defined set of features and try to define a small target to where you want to go, before setting a big target like the whole game. Make iterations towards your whole game and NEVER include extras thinking you're going to need at some point. Try to fix and freeze your core set of features, and then avoid changing your core mechanics the best you can. Only add and change features if it's something that shows or derives from playtest. Finally, playtest A LOT. Playtest EACH iteration. It's even worth to buy the slot on steam or any distribution platform just to have easier faster development deliverables to your friends. Have a nice ride and I hope you succeed.
You dont need to quit your current game to do small projects. Sign up for some gamejams during the year to get new experiences in a safe environment and continue on the big picture
You can add normal maps to your sprite it will make the lighting way better but you will need a sprite2d node and make all animations into one sprite sheet
Congrats.. on such a brave decision! it'll no doubt turn out much better, but it's worth noting that there's lots of polished projects with no players..
I loved to see my comment appear in your video, it's okay to rewrite all the code: Valve did the same in Half life 2 and also me did that in my game. I hope you the best with your game and tust me it has so much potential.
Curious, how did you solve for wall jumping? Does the player enter a wall-climb state upon leaning into a wall while airborne, and then with no directional input can hit jump to be propelled away from the wall? Or is it a specific type of wall tile, and the player kind of latches to it with a timed zone they can hit jump out of? Hope that makes sense.
One thing to share is it's fine if you want to do the overhaul but before you do, you should probably take the existing version and have it play tested at least a dozen times if you haven't already to ensure it's reaching the desired outcome you want
Have you ever tried to add some camera movement? There's a lot of ways to implement it depending on the game (like lagging behind like hollow knight or going ahead like pizza tower) but it can look pretty nice
The old version actually has a script to look ahead of the player when you're going fast, but I'm going to be reworking the camera movement in the new version!
I think the game needs enemies, or more like ‘obstacles with personality’, think like donkey kong (snes) enemies, they are there, most of the times they are not a threat, but they are fun and make the feeling of the game less empty. Of course their respawn must be hardcoded somehow so you can consider their positions while you speedrun the game.
It does sound like revamping the game would let you improve the game quite a lot. How much content do you have readily available? Have you considered releasing what you have at hand now and then doing the revamp?
I'd still need to make another 3 or 4 levels and an entire hub area, as well as a few more cutscenes, so at this point I think the best route is to just continue with the new iteration and take my time expanding the world!
would honestly just rework what's entirely necessary for it not to be a complete pain when implementing the remaining features to do, such as cutscenes, new levels, characters or whatever. you're not gonna salvage a whole code-base like that (and its preeety bad may I say it - so bad that I'd argue that itd need more than a *few* total reworks until you truly make it "clean", or scalable to a high degree) without some massive time commitment, and even then, the game design and concept overall will be never up to pair with an actual new project you start with the experience of finishing a whole game. besides that, id just focus a lot on the vfx. the dash's still looks quite underwhelming, for example (pro tip: add glow to the ghost sprites). implementing new art is a solid time investment as well, and will likely help it get more a lot more exposure. the only valid reason to restart almost from scratch like that would be if youre reeeeally keen on having post-launch content updates - and for that youd need quite a following to have *some* guarantee of enough success, in order to keep it sustainable. but beyond that, it also requires a conceptually expandable game to make it worth it - aka one thats generally replayable enough to make the new content last than like a single playthrough.
With all respect, I disagree with your assessment. Having been the one to sink so much time and effort into this project, I'm acutely in tune with its various shortcomings, not the least of which being its poor coding. I started this project with almost no knowledge of coding, learned the absolute basics, and did everything I could with them. Since then, while I readily admit my code is still amateurish, I've at least learned enough to rewrite everything in a way that's dozens of times more workable, and will allow me to more readily apprehend my vision for the project. That's all I'm aiming for. Since making that decision, I've managed to replicate the movement nearly 1:1, begin adding obstacles, and even incorporate a new movement ability. But even if it weren't going well, I still think restarting would have been the correct decision. I care enough about this project to want to see it through, not write it off. Whether intended or not, the comment you left read something like: "this project isn't worth restarting." And it's very much okay by me if you think that! And though I assume you know what you're talking about (you've got some really solid looking game showcases on your channel!) at the end of the day, I have to do what I think is best for the game. So I'm gonna continue forward with the rework, full steam ahead. I guess we'll see how it works out for me!
I can't say anything about the code, I'd leave that up to you to decide how worth it is. However, I will say that creating dedicated art, in the same size and feel, will surely elevate your game compared to using free assets and using mixels. Good luck!
Hey there! I really think this project looks great despite your desire to rework it - I am a musician trying to get my feet wet with game music so I wanted to put myself out there and ask if you'd be interested in working together! Regardless, I am sure this will come out great so I look forward to seeing you at the finish line. Cheers
what if you finish up a few levels and publish what you have as a smol lil game like the flash games of yore, and then treat this redesign as a sequel?
BRO PLEASE DON'T DO IT I DID IT AND IT LEAD ME TO RESTART OVER 5 TIMES on the good side though I was able to get the skills to make my game in the span of a week which would've taken me a month or two to reach
You could consider that current version of the game was your small limited scope first game that you just decided not to publish. And the new version is your second game that's slightly more ambitious to be a viable product.
@@DaFakerable I actually got a bunch of emails after announcing I was looking for an artist in my last video. One in particular struck me as a good fit for the game, so we've been coordinating some of the details!
Aren't side scrollers one of the most difficult categories? The quality bar is extremely high for these types of games. I think you mostly need to finish, EVERYONE does this restart thing, over and over, barely anyone finishes their games. Finish this one and do all that stuff on the NEXT game.
Hey! I'm not sure if you'd be looking to hire a composer as well, but I'd love to discuss potentially filling that role if you're interested. Let me know :)
Yo this video touched my heart , as a begginer doing my first full game , had the same feeling about some parts of my code, specially the the player code. A few weeks ago i learned how to make and use an HFSM while making the enemies for the game. Everything went perfect and then started to look at the player script ( was the first thing i 've done) and was not looking good compared with the enemies scripts .. So i started fixing some bugs on a few mechanics and the have the same feeling... I must re write this using an FSM, altough the code is working great and it's not too messy anymore i would preffer to follow the same structure for most of the game. If it become too spagetti later on the development will be a pain in the ass to add lot of features as cutscenes , dialog system, save system etc.. I think what you are about to do its a great decision but remember to always have backups, another thing that make me improved a lot the way i developed the game its to have a whiteboard or some kind of program to keep track of everything i do or done (i started using milastone not so long a go and was a gamechanger). Best of luck and for god saint that game looks so cool , i really want to play it and buy it ! Greeting from Argentina
You can also blame how bad social media sites by corporations have gotten that can hinder your reach. X is a prime and sad example of what happened. Aggressive restrictions were added for guest (logged-off) users, garbage ads, etc.
Yea. You're doing the same mistake I'm doing alle the time. Start over again. Question the game if it's fun and so on. Build a solid foundation and build up on it. But finish your work. Even if it's on a much smaller scale. Finish it. I'm so frustrated right now since I've so many projects but ended up throwing them away.
Just ship it! It's done! You are just nervous, but you need to ship the game! Don't spend the next 10 years tinkering! All that extra work isn't going to increase the sales of a 2D pixel art platform enough to be worth it! SHIP IT! Then you can start from scratch!
so here's something you need to understand: EVERY indies' first commercial release is going to be a commercial failure. and that is a constant in everybody's journey. the abysmal number of exceptions only confirm this rule. why is that? simply because there's a massive amount of game development unrelated knowledge that is required to have a shot at commercial success. here's a few examples: how do I do market analysis, what does efficient marketing as an indie look like, how does the steam algorithm work, when does my demo need to release, and much more. if you don't allocate half - yes without the slightest exaggeration just as much of your effort as you spend with the development itself - into those fields, then your release cannot possibly be competitive in the market, not matter how good your game is. and while this may sound like "alright, I can figure those things out before I release", unless you are some sort of prodigy, no, you cannot. this knowledge is of a nature one can only really fully grasp by actually going through the process of at least one, ideally several commercial releases. just watching a bunch of youtube videos or reading articles will not get you there. so this is why experienced indies implore everybody to not have their years-in-development dream-game project their first commercial release. now here's the upside: once you do understand and apply this, your chances are solid. the game market is not "harsh" or "overcrowded". this is just the perception because hardly anyone (any indie, that is) actually tries. most (above 70%) give up after their first attempt at commercial success. which, as we just learned, is very unfortunate as their first shot was bound to fail anyway. less than 90% of indies ever attempt their third commercial project. so it's absolutely no wonder that the success rate statistics look so frightening. the solution - and in my opinion this is not an "individual journey" thing but it's the solution for every budding indie - is to define the success criteria for your first commercial release not to have to do with making money back, but with gathering crucial experience. this doesn't have to mean that you only build a bunch of arcade clones with tiny scope. your current project seems fine to me in scope - it's not too crazy. and it also doesn't mean that you shouldn't give it your best to make the game as marketable as possible and to try to apply the things I've listed above based on articles and youtube videos (just don't buy a course). but do it for the experience, don't expect and definitely do not rely on making money back. and most importantly, don't give up after this project. as the number of your commercial releases increases, your chances at commercial success will go up drastically. in gamer terms, look at every commercial release under your belt as a 20% buff (additive) on the success rate on your next project. so every release is invaluable to you regardless of how much money it makes back.
With all due respect: no. I have plans for this world and this game in particular, and I'm willing to put in the time and effort to bring them to fruition. I don't intend to write off Lost Resolve as something I rushed through just so I could say I finished it. I'm learning plenty by continuing to commit to the project, and that's the way forward that I've chosen. At the end of the day, it's a choice I have to make for myself!
Whilst I do agree with your decision, one warning about rewriting code from scratch because it got too messy: It will always get too messy. I've been a full time software developer for over 10 years and every single time you start a new project with the best intentions but then a few months down the line there's things that you hate about the way you coded it and you think "if I could just start over, I'd do it so much better". But then the same thing happens with your next project eventually too. Having said that, if you were very new to programming when you started this project then yeah it probably could just be a lot better all around if you started it again now
Totally agree; this is how your projects end up in 'development hell'; you can *always* do better.
if deciding to rewrite; you have to clearly give yourself tasks and scope and a plan.
I agree but I think there's nuance to this. I think as a beginner, there's things you know and things you don't know, and then there's things you don't know you don't know. Those unknown unkowns, when discovered, will sometimes warrant a full restart because you built your project not considering them at all and could be so important and big that the only option is a total restart. With experience that happens less and less until you don't need to restart but you write things in a way that makes it easy to expand or refactor. Live, fail, learn and try again. That gets you pretty far.
I'm sorry but I will call bullshit on this one. When your programming skills grow to a certain degree and you read enough of high-quality code & work with talented engineers, you eventually reach to a point where your codebases can be super clean.
I have been working with Unreal for around 6 years. Restarted my project 4 times. But current iteration is coming along extremely well, and I am proud of how clean & efficient and powerful my current iteration of codebase has become. (Matter of fact I even carried over some code from 3rd iteration because I was already happy with some of the systems)
This notion of "it always gets messy" is just inexperience to be honest. It does happen very frequently when you are working with companies that try to rush results without having a good understanding of how code works but is definitely not always the case.
All else aside: (1) refactoring is great for learning, and (2) not all refactor are equal; some are more long lasting and or necessary than the many others.
"Messy coding" is a valid way of learning. You don't forget the design principles and you're better able to structure it for your project. Each project you do, your codebase improves, but unfortunately, each project will continue to have 'messy code' as you keep learning things.
So it's really an inevitable problem, but if all you do is hyper-examine the flaws in your current project, you can't appreciate the understanding you accrued that will culminate in your next one.
"If you're not afraid of failure, why not aim for success"
That hit deep.
I'm glad you recognized the best advice and then made an intentional decision about what you would do.
You were also 100% correct about what needed to be done and it looks like you're taking on head first.
Bravo to you!
Exciting news! Best of luck with the overhaul! Don't give up!
Thanks so much! I'm excited for what the future holds!
As someone who has been following the development of this game from its announcement and playing the early demos, I’m really excited to see the art style overhaul and seeing what comes next!
2025 can’t come fast enough.
I'm glad you are planning on working with an Artist. Art is huge and I think too many solo devs believe it's taboo to stop being totally solo, even if they have weaknesses they don't feel equipped to overcome yet. Regarding the story, just be aware it will draw Celeste comprisons due to the genre of game. Best of luck (and hard work).
The lighting make a huge difference! I did the same thing earlier this year, scrapped a project I put a lot of time into (~2 or 3 months of work) and started from scratch. It's turned out way nicer than I could have imagined. I'm certain you'll definitely have great results as well, its worth it!
4:25 guys look he said the the thing!! Also I think you should keep the original version as part of the game when you release it as a small throwback and a cool little thing for older players
I literally was in your shoes about 2 and a half years ago. I rebuilt my game from the bottom up, rewrote all the code, fixed and refined MANY things, and now I have a showing on friday at a convention called San Japan here in San Antonio. You got this!
Honestly I wish you the best of luck with improving your game. Seeing how this has developed overtime, I couldn’t be more excited. It’s nice to see that you found your own lost resolve (see the pun? no? ok I’ll see myself out) and decided to keep working on the project
Good luck man
First time seeing the channel. I identified with the message - just another person with life struggles and a dream involving gamedev.
Keep on going and enjoy the process, always :)
It's great that you're staying open to feedback and trying to be objective. The takeaways you have about what's there so far not being up to par are well reasoned and honest. Some harsh advice: You might also want to check if this is the right game to focus on if you're already looking to overhaul and make huge changes. There's a lot of competition in this space of 2D pixel-art platformers and the ones that do well all have at least one truly remarkable aspect. Pizza Tower, Celeste, Sonic Mania, name whichever are your favorite and take note that they were exploring something new that can't be found in their contemporaries. Hopefully you can find what that element is in your game!
Higher power spoke through you giving me that message (your game story). Thank you! I neede it, really.
I recently did the same thing. Two weeks ago, I began a refactor on not most, but literally ALL of my game.
I didn't have any walls of ifs, but I do have a much more technically demanding and logically complex title than what you're designing.. And class structures, dependency chains, and just over-reliance on inheritance (which led to countless splits and subclasses that made things too complex) ended up making progress extremely difficult in some areas.
And I decided I needed to optimize it, make it easier to work on, and also to bring the art up to date as I had improved dramatically as an artist over the years.
So I went back to a capsule character, on a level made of a plane with a skybox, and built it all over again.
I remade my input manager, my control schemes, redesigned my building system (the flagship of my game) and deleted all my animation pipelines.
And here are my honest feelings on it, now several weeks in: It's the best decision I've ever made as a developer, and also the most depressing.
The systems I have finished rebuilding are something I never could've achieved working around the old systems. The build system evolved to a point I got private funding for a 3 minute gameplay demo: Because the issues I had polishing out controls and hitting that last mile of making it more intuitive? I closed that gap by just rebuilding, which I had failed to close by iterating for literally 2 years.
But the systems I haven't finished? It's daunting, intimidating, and also somewhat depressing to know I can't show those off. That they don't exist, and so I don't have that progress to show the world.
I know I can rebuild all of it within the month. but the realization that it isn't there now.. It's actually hurting my motivation.
Yet, I also realize this was objectively the best decision. because every single thing I finish is just so much better than what I was working with before. And expansion is coming easier and easier.
but again, my project's scale is a bit bonkers. Not just for a solo dev, but for an indie, or really any size of studio. So maybe your experience won't be the same as my own. But I turned 6 years and 82 gigabytes into a full restart and I have 812 megabytes to show for it (thankfully, my game won't ever be 82 gigabytes. There were just millions of old prototypes that never got fully deleted until this restart.)
My skill as a developer, which I didn't have when I started, is showing most brightly now that I restarted. But it's a skill I can't really show anyone, since I'm building up from zero. Though, I am doing so VERY quickly. So this conflicted feeling will be temporary.
And, I think the most unexpected thing I've come to realize is this:
I am placing a whole new level of pressure to perform on myself now. Before, prototypes were prototypes. But now, I feel this added incentive to perfect them. And it's actually pretty exhausting.
By showing myself how much better i could be doing, I came to expect I MUST do that everywhere.
It's a double edged sword, but arguably also the biggest negative. Because it isn't just about rebuilding what I had before: It's that I have to build it better now. And sometimes, that is literally "just that easy." But sometimes, it's extremely hard. Especially with the art: Sure, I'm a much better artist now. But that doesn't mean I'm sitting on a perpetual pile of inspiration. I still get stuck. And when I do, with this major overhaul under my belt, it hits harder than it did before. It makes me question myself more than it used to.
This is arguably the most negative part of remaking my entire game. I proved I CAN do better.. Now I feel I MUST. And it's wearing me down more than I would've expected.
Making a decision to refactor or rework a game is very daunting, but I think there are definitely cases where it's worthwhile. It really comes down to what's necessary to attain the vision you have for a game. If I were to keep expanding the old version of Lost Resolve, for example, I'd constantly be stumbling over the lack of organization and overall poor code, and it would hinder me from achieving that vision.
I'm sure it's really hard to be in that in-between period of rebuilding, and constantly thinking about all the work that still needs to be redone - especially with a large-scale project. But if you're passionate about a project, I'm confident that your passion will carry you through. Best of luck to you!!
Great video. It's so inspiring to follow your journey and learn from your experience.
I wish you the best of luck!
2:24 part of me wonders if that's something I work with. Because im gonna be real, as much as I want to make videogames I never really do it. Mostly because I do hold back on those big dream games just as... Well you know "when I get good" or whatever. I think for my journey right now im just going to try to build up skills, and some of that will come from making projects I just think I have to not be afraid to take a step into my "dream game" sooner than I expect I guess.
I feel this so much, having come to a similar realization on my own project. Although your 2-3 hours sounded like a solid length already. Obviously it's your choice to refactor or not but I'd probably just have wrapped up what I had.
I’m jazzed to see where this goes! Best of luck, I’ll be following along!
Thanks so much for the support! Been loving the looks of Tethergeist, by the way!!
i love the effort and purpose you’re putting into your game, and i hope it all goes amazingly well!
Wish you the best of luck!
To improve the lighting even more, you could add a normal map to each of the sprites and tiles.
It can do wonders if done right.
I started a project and 3 months in I started over and accomplished what I did in those 3 months in 1 week. The project I have now is going to be finished regardless at this point but it's not my dream game so to speak even though I don't really like using that term as I love designing and making games so much every one I've done has been a dream game simply because I love doing it and I don't have one single idea that I don't absolutely adore and love. Good luck!
afterimages are a great change, and already look good, but maybe you could consider adding extra effects to the moves that use it, especially the slide and stomp; could be a variety of things, but even something as simple as small, partially transparent speed lines could make a big difference. also, the wall jump and the stomp's ground connection could use a little more visual feedback too.
I remembered your last video and I'm so happy you're taking a chance with your game. Your game is worth it! I'm very excited to see how it develops.
I have done that for my most recent project, I started it and dint do things very efficiently or organically. I spent a week recreating it while keeping most of the code. It was a very good choice as I had remade certain things more modular. I think that just starting a project and getting the idea out of your head is a good thing(no matter how janky). 😊 love the progress can’t wait for it to come out❤
Super excited for the journey moving forward!
Thanks for the inspiration once again, good luck on your journey!
Super excited for what comes next! But also maybe consider not having unlockable moves, I think games that have all your abilities from the very beginning are way more interesting and replayable than ones that have a kind of progression system. Imagine all the cool levels you could make with your full moveset in mind, rather than the shlocky tutorials you have to make for each new ability, and having everything that comes before having your full moveset be boring comparatively and all that. You could just make like 2 or 3 tutorial levels and then boom, full fledged levels that use your whole kit in interesting ways. Hope you consider it!
Yes yes and yes. I agree with you. I'm the same kind of person that wants to do a big game and it's the only thing that motivates me enough. I've restarted my game 3 times, and every time it has been worth it but the 4th is sticking. Here's my two cents, write code in a way where you could always replace it easily. Suppose you have a state machine in a script, well, write in a way where you could easily replace it with another one. This way, you'll never be afraid of deleting chunks of your game, or rewriting bits of it without burning the whole thing. It takes practice to understand this but if you can make your code be like a lego, where you can easily replace one thing with another, you'll get to places you didn't even dream of. You can prototype and create new features or experiments quickly without breaking the whole project. Ideally you don't rewrite the whole thing and you get to the finish line but I do think that as we learn, it's completely necessary to burn it to the ground and start over.
Very excited to see what the game looks like in the next devlog!
I've only seen a few of the devlogs on this project, but I'm SO HAPPY to hear that you're doing this! Best of luck mate! :D
Custom assets are really going to level up your game!
Man!! I love the look of your game...especially that sliding feature....Keep going...
I think the assets and sound redesign will be great, with save slots and controller support being tantamount for your sales.
I don't see much value in a new dialogue system. If the focus of the game is on speedrunning, I would keep dialog and story to a minimum so to not overload you with scope creep, but you know best what your vision for this game is!
When it comes to new abilities, I would also consider having all abilities being unlocked from the start, even if they are not immediatly introduced to the player, so speedrunners/experts can use them to ram through the initial levels!
Related to the new abilities, I feel that for a game focused on speedruns this is missing advanced techniques. I'm not talking about unlockables or anything, just advanced ways of using existing abilities (such as the various advanced movement techs in Celest!).
Oh man is this exciting. This has been one of my most anticipated projects, and I love to see you putting in the extra effort to make it the best version of itself it can be. I'm also looking forward to the art overhaul, as that was what I considered the weakest part of the game so far (Also if you need a composer for the music, I know someone who is incredibly talented and would be eager to work with you, no pressure though).
I'm also really looking forward to the story. I find with games like this, a sincere and poignant story told with a lot of Heart can be great for the player's Soul ;)
Wishing you lots of luck!
I think this is pretty much inevitable, it will happen again and again. As we are always learning and changing, its normal to look to stuff that we coded in the past and realize you couldve done better.
I havent been working on my game that long and already want to rewrite lots of stuff.
Good luck!
Hell yeah, the after imagine is definitely worth adding, maybe make it more consistent or something because it's not much, can't wait for the new look
Good luck on revamping the game! Glad to have seen what it was and looking forward to what it will become :)
Honestly, looking forward to it.
That's a huge win bro, now you won't regret anything and think what could have been 🎉
The game looks great. The fact that you even started a game is more than what most people would accomplish. I'm working on my first game and I still don't know what I'm doing completely. Do your best. I support you buddy.
the new bounce move doesn't really *look* bouncy enough, i'd recommend adding a few effects to make it look/feel better to use
(forgot to say this here but this game looks really fun to play and i can't wait to play it myself)
There could be a skill to unlock which could make the wall jump from wall to wall a lot quicker, just holding the jump button, I think it would result in some cool aesthetic for the speedruns
The after image makes it look speedy and ghostly at the same time! It's a very subtle but fitting change on the look. Idk why the character has a sword if she's not going to use it by the looks of it, maybe there's another mechanic or deeper meaning. If it's just for decoration I would go for more of a thief or assasin look but it wouldn't be a fit given the story I don't really know.
The sword is just something that these assets happened to include... With the custom assets I'm planning to incorporate, she probably won't have one. I'm still tossing around ideas for her final character design, and I think the artist I'm working with will be able to help with that as well!
I am super pumped to see what you come up with! Keep on going man.
Build and rebuild! Just be sure to save the version of this game!
This definitely feels like a step in the right direction, this is gonna be a good game, I can tell.
As for cutscenes, there are a few things I'd suggest.
1. Since it's a speedrun game with good movement, make them entirely skippable so people who are here just for the gameplay won't get interrupted. Also, avoid non-story cutscenes if they're not skippable.
2. Avoid the scrolling text like you managed to avoid in the prototype. Instantly appearing text is actually much better, especially if the dialogue box length varies from one word to a few sentences.
I look forward to seeing the game and your progress, and don't you dare go hollow
Excited to see where this game goes!
Мне нравится, как Вы пытаетесь поддержать тех, у кого такие же проблемы! Удачи в проекте)
Man watching this sounds a lot like what i went though with previous game attempts, i know that feeling of "should i redo it?". But since i started working on a game i really like genre wise i stopped asking myself that, so my question would be is this the type of game you enjoy playing too?
good decision, best of luck to you
It definitely does look better, keep it up!
I think one important thing is to not get caught up too much on your first game. Your first game will always be janky. You should have realistic expectations and just keep going with the next projects. Not only you will gradually build skill, but you will gradualy build a fanbase that likes your games. Regardless of how good your game is, there are dozens of great games that never 'took off' and never sold more than 50 copies. All game development as a business is up to luck - so amount of work you put into a single project is a risk you have to manage.
keep going, your game is awesome!
TIP: I have been doing this my WHOLE life and the biggest thing to keep in mind after such a decision is: IT'S ALWAYS GOING TO BE BAD. Not the visuals, the code. You're always learning, forever. You're always making decisions, forever. Games take time, LOTS of it. You're never going to be super proud of your code, and even if you are, people don't play code, they play games. This is not to say that architecture is not important, it is. It is PRIMORDIAL. But, you should always decide on a defined set of features and try to define a small target to where you want to go, before setting a big target like the whole game. Make iterations towards your whole game and NEVER include extras thinking you're going to need at some point. Try to fix and freeze your core set of features, and then avoid changing your core mechanics the best you can. Only add and change features if it's something that shows or derives from playtest. Finally, playtest A LOT. Playtest EACH iteration. It's even worth to buy the slot on steam or any distribution platform just to have easier faster development deliverables to your friends.
Have a nice ride and I hope you succeed.
You dont need to quit your current game to do small projects. Sign up for some gamejams during the year to get new experiences in a safe environment and continue on the big picture
You can add normal maps to your sprite it will make the lighting way better but you will need a sprite2d node and make all animations into one sprite sheet
That seems like a really neat idea - I'll have to look into it!
Can't wait to play it!
"Does that sound like a lot of work?"
It sounds like a sequel. Good luck, though!
Congrats.. on such a brave decision! it'll no doubt turn out much better, but it's worth noting that there's lots of polished projects with no players..
Yes restart, I am starting to see why building out sandbox tools is very important especially for story driven games.
I loved to see my comment appear in your video, it's okay to rewrite all the code: Valve did the same in Half life 2 and also me did that in my game. I hope you the best with your game and tust me it has so much potential.
Curious, how did you solve for wall jumping? Does the player enter a wall-climb state upon leaning into a wall while airborne, and then with no directional input can hit jump to be propelled away from the wall? Or is it a specific type of wall tile, and the player kind of latches to it with a timed zone they can hit jump out of? Hope that makes sense.
From what it sounds like, Lost Resolve's future seems a whole lot brighter!
One thing to share is it's fine if you want to do the overhaul but before you do, you should probably take the existing version and have it play tested at least a dozen times if you haven't already to ensure it's reaching the desired outcome you want
Have you ever tried to add some camera movement? There's a lot of ways to implement it depending on the game (like lagging behind like hollow knight or going ahead like pizza tower) but it can look pretty nice
The old version actually has a script to look ahead of the player when you're going fast, but I'm going to be reworking the camera movement in the new version!
good luck man!
Cool character design
I think the game needs enemies, or more like ‘obstacles with personality’, think like donkey kong (snes) enemies, they are there, most of the times they are not a threat, but they are fun and make the feeling of the game less empty. Of course their respawn must be hardcoded somehow so you can consider their positions while you speedrun the game.
It does sound like revamping the game would let you improve the game quite a lot. How much content do you have readily available? Have you considered releasing what you have at hand now and then doing the revamp?
I'd still need to make another 3 or 4 levels and an entire hub area, as well as a few more cutscenes, so at this point I think the best route is to just continue with the new iteration and take my time expanding the world!
I'd just love to locate a legitimate programmer. As for your game, at least you're learning when to cut your losses and do it *RIGHT*.
would honestly just rework what's entirely necessary for it not to be a complete pain when implementing the remaining features to do, such as cutscenes, new levels, characters or whatever. you're not gonna salvage a whole code-base like that (and its preeety bad may I say it - so bad that I'd argue that itd need more than a *few* total reworks until you truly make it "clean", or scalable to a high degree) without some massive time commitment, and even then, the game design and concept overall will be never up to pair with an actual new project you start with the experience of finishing a whole game.
besides that, id just focus a lot on the vfx. the dash's still looks quite underwhelming, for example (pro tip: add glow to the ghost sprites). implementing new art is a solid time investment as well, and will likely help it get more a lot more exposure.
the only valid reason to restart almost from scratch like that would be if youre reeeeally keen on having post-launch content updates - and for that youd need quite a following to have *some* guarantee of enough success, in order to keep it sustainable. but beyond that, it also requires a conceptually expandable game to make it worth it - aka one thats generally replayable enough to make the new content last than like a single playthrough.
With all respect, I disagree with your assessment. Having been the one to sink so much time and effort into this project, I'm acutely in tune with its various shortcomings, not the least of which being its poor coding.
I started this project with almost no knowledge of coding, learned the absolute basics, and did everything I could with them. Since then, while I readily admit my code is still amateurish, I've at least learned enough to rewrite everything in a way that's dozens of times more workable, and will allow me to more readily apprehend my vision for the project. That's all I'm aiming for.
Since making that decision, I've managed to replicate the movement nearly 1:1, begin adding obstacles, and even incorporate a new movement ability. But even if it weren't going well, I still think restarting would have been the correct decision. I care enough about this project to want to see it through, not write it off.
Whether intended or not, the comment you left read something like: "this project isn't worth restarting." And it's very much okay by me if you think that! And though I assume you know what you're talking about (you've got some really solid looking game showcases on your channel!) at the end of the day, I have to do what I think is best for the game.
So I'm gonna continue forward with the rework, full steam ahead. I guess we'll see how it works out for me!
I can't say anything about the code, I'd leave that up to you to decide how worth it is.
However, I will say that creating dedicated art, in the same size and feel, will surely elevate your game compared to using free assets and using mixels.
Good luck!
Hey there! I really think this project looks great despite your desire to rework it - I am a musician trying to get my feet wet with game music so I wanted to put myself out there and ask if you'd be interested in working together! Regardless, I am sure this will come out great so I look forward to seeing you at the finish line. Cheers
hell yeah
you're literally like me, so cool
what if you finish up a few levels and publish what you have as a smol lil game like the flash games of yore, and then treat this redesign as a sequel?
BRO PLEASE DON'T DO IT I DID IT AND IT LEAD ME TO RESTART OVER 5 TIMES
on the good side though I was able to get the skills to make my game in the span of a week which would've taken me a month or two to reach
You could consider that current version of the game was your small limited scope first game that you just decided not to publish. And the new version is your second game that's slightly more ambitious to be a viable product.
Usually it takes 3 or more games before an indie dev develops something good. I've restarted countless times so ... can't really criticize. Good luck
Refactoring the whole game? Sounds like a regular Friday to me 😂
What did you do to find an artist to work with?
@@DaFakerable I actually got a bunch of emails after announcing I was looking for an artist in my last video. One in particular struck me as a good fit for the game, so we've been coordinating some of the details!
who ever is running the sim should give me a boost or something geez
Aren't side scrollers one of the most difficult categories? The quality bar is extremely high for these types of games. I think you mostly need to finish, EVERYONE does this restart thing, over and over, barely anyone finishes their games. Finish this one and do all that stuff on the NEXT game.
Hey! I'm not sure if you'd be looking to hire a composer as well, but I'd love to discuss potentially filling that role if you're interested. Let me know :)
Yo this video touched my heart , as a begginer doing my first full game , had the same feeling about some parts of my code, specially the the player code. A few weeks ago i learned how to make and use an HFSM while making the enemies for the game. Everything went perfect and then started to look at the player script ( was the first thing i 've done) and was not looking good compared with the enemies scripts .. So i started fixing some bugs on a few mechanics and the have the same feeling... I must re write this using an FSM, altough the code is working great and it's not too messy anymore i would preffer to follow the same structure for most of the game. If it become too spagetti later on the development will be a pain in the ass to add lot of features as cutscenes , dialog system, save system etc.. I think what you are about to do its a great decision but remember to always have backups, another thing that make me improved a lot the way i developed the game its to have a whiteboard or some kind of program to keep track of everything i do or done (i started using milastone not so long a go and was a gamechanger). Best of luck and for god saint that game looks so cool , i really want to play it and buy it ! Greeting from Argentina
You can also blame how bad social media sites by corporations have gotten that can hinder your reach. X is a prime and sad example of what happened. Aggressive restrictions were added for guest (logged-off) users, garbage ads, etc.
I'ts going to take shitloads of work, but passion is not work
Yes very good game yes yes
I like having multiple saves, games like this usually oversimplify everything and you have to use one save like its a really old mmo.
:0 🐢
Yea. You're doing the same mistake I'm doing alle the time.
Start over again. Question the game if it's fun and so on.
Build a solid foundation and build up on it.
But finish your work. Even if it's on a much smaller scale. Finish it.
I'm so frustrated right now since I've so many projects but ended up throwing them away.
It sounds like you lost your resolve to finish that first version of Lost Resolve...
Or found the resolve to put the effort in to polish it and challenge himself to make something that he thinks is better.
Just ship it! It's done! You are just nervous, but you need to ship the game! Don't spend the next 10 years tinkering! All that extra work isn't going to increase the sales of a 2D pixel art platform enough to be worth it! SHIP IT! Then you can start from scratch!
Release the current game for $1
so here's something you need to understand:
EVERY indies' first commercial release is going to be a commercial failure.
and that is a constant in everybody's journey.
the abysmal number of exceptions only confirm this rule.
why is that? simply because there's a massive amount of game development unrelated knowledge that is required to have a shot at commercial success. here's a few examples: how do I do market analysis, what does efficient marketing as an indie look like, how does the steam algorithm work, when does my demo need to release, and much more. if you don't allocate half - yes without the slightest exaggeration just as much of your effort as you spend with the development itself - into those fields, then your release cannot possibly be competitive in the market, not matter how good your game is.
and while this may sound like "alright, I can figure those things out before I release", unless you are some sort of prodigy, no, you cannot. this knowledge is of a nature one can only really fully grasp by actually going through the process of at least one, ideally several commercial releases. just watching a bunch of youtube videos or reading articles will not get you there.
so this is why experienced indies implore everybody to not have their years-in-development dream-game project their first commercial release.
now here's the upside:
once you do understand and apply this, your chances are solid. the game market is not "harsh" or "overcrowded".
this is just the perception because hardly anyone (any indie, that is) actually tries.
most (above 70%) give up after their first attempt at commercial success. which, as we just learned, is very unfortunate as their first shot was bound to fail anyway.
less than 90% of indies ever attempt their third commercial project. so it's absolutely no wonder that the success rate statistics look so frightening.
the solution - and in my opinion this is not an "individual journey" thing but it's the solution for every budding indie - is to define the success criteria for your first commercial release not to have to do with making money back, but with gathering crucial experience. this doesn't have to mean that you only build a bunch of arcade clones with tiny scope. your current project seems fine to me in scope - it's not too crazy. and it also doesn't mean that you shouldn't give it your best to make the game as marketable as possible and to try to apply the things I've listed above based on articles and youtube videos (just don't buy a course). but do it for the experience, don't expect and definitely do not rely on making money back.
and most importantly, don't give up after this project. as the number of your commercial releases increases, your chances at commercial success will go up drastically. in gamer terms, look at every commercial release under your belt as a 20% buff (additive) on the success rate on your next project. so every release is invaluable to you regardless of how much money it makes back.
Dude, release the game already. Stop the development. FINISH IT and start over with everything that you've learned and do something better next time.
With all due respect: no. I have plans for this world and this game in particular, and I'm willing to put in the time and effort to bring them to fruition. I don't intend to write off Lost Resolve as something I rushed through just so I could say I finished it. I'm learning plenty by continuing to commit to the project, and that's the way forward that I've chosen. At the end of the day, it's a choice I have to make for myself!