Fuck no. None of this edge to edge glass bullshit. It just makes things more breakable for no good reason. What harm have bezels ever done you? Did bezels have sex with your mother? Cause you to fail out of school? Fire you from your job? Shut down your economy due to a virus? Bezels have done *NO HARM* and NO economic damage to a single man, woman or child on this planet; yet they *CONSISTENTLY* receive unwarranted hate & denigration. It stops here, and it stops now! We are going to start a new movement, the stop bezel hate movement.
Unrelated, but honestly I have to say I hate the trend screens have gone with modern devices. Rounded edges, bends, holes, all that just feels like parts of my screen are being covered. I just want a nice rectangle and nothing more.
Thanks for digging into the product! Just some notes as we watch: The USB-C Expansion Card is indeed intended to be "sacrificial" as an alternative to wrecking the mainboard if you trip on a cable or wrench it somehow.
There's a Phillips PH0 on the other side of that T5 bit to use for the little Phillips screws that we had to use in some spots for height clearance reasons.
It looks like those two sticks of RAM actually are different. I picked up two random sticks from our office when sending this out. For a real customer order, the sticks would match.
Same, in the future if I need a laptop and have a large budget ill take their laptop in a heatbeat but otherwise, for a $800 min config I could get a FAR better amd laptop that may not be repairable, but itll still be worth it. Price is the major factor for me.
My first impression about this is "this laptop is the collection of good ideas the creators couldn't get past management at their previous workplaces".
NORMALS don't want it and they not techies drive the mass market. Eternal summer is here and being technically capable was NEVER normal even before the computer age. Technology is magic to morons and most humans just want appliances. Any techie who doesn't understand humanity has issues. Be happy there are enough of us to support these ventures but know they can never be "normal". Normals just want to drool on themselves and be entertained.
I completely understand their concern releasing the technical drawings. When you spend a considerable amount of funds on R&D you have to protect your intellectual property. It is too easy for another company to make a clone of your device and undercut the costs because the clone company doesn't have to recover the R&D costs.
Exactly why I think they won't release to the public. Completely understandable as well, as soon as they said they weren't sure if they would release schematics I knew it was so they could figure out how to protect their research and design investments.
I actually see a slightly bigger issue for framework, do they have Intel's permission to distribute the pin out for the CPU/chipset and/or any other chip on the board that they sourced from a third party?
@@Duffman19370 Do you know how scared I am everytime someone used to come in with an A1706/A1707/A1708 model and we'd do a motherboard/keyboard/trackpad repair to it... ? I would literally open it just enough to see the screen and THAT'S IT... because if the screen wire FINALLY BREAKS while it's with ME, I'm getting blamed for it... PTSD indeed!
@@rossmanngroup Literally had this happen to me just recently. Client brought in a pc laptop with a broken hinge, all that needed to be done was that the plastic needed to be reattached to the metal palmrest cover. So I remove the battery, and apply epoxy to the hinge and clamp it down. No cables removed other than the battery. Once it finished curing, powered it on, and NOTHING on the screen. Client claimed that the system worked just fine when it was brought in. Client also failed to mention that they DROPPED the system during the check-in process. Granted it's on me that I didn't check that it worked before starting work, but we got slammed that week and I just wanted it out of my shop as fast as possible.
The good thing is, this is proof that everything doesn't have to be glued/riveted to produce a reasonably thin production laptop, killing the argument of mainstream manufacturers!
"The Dells not even fucking thinner!" - Linus, LTT Framework video. Linus had it side by side with the Dell XPS 15. Linus sounded the same as Louis when he found the magnetic screen bezel.
Its about speeed. Manufacturing speed. Trust me its a lot easire/faster in mass production to glue/rivet. It was never about what is possible or not, what is cheaper/faster.
I could have spent less money buying another XPS 13 to be my new writing/development/hobby laptop, but I bought a Batch 1 Framework because I believe the extra cost is worthwhile to make the company a long term success and to help rebuild a solid piece of the market for easily serviceable and repairable computer equipment.
Nice. I'm thinking about buying for a similar reason. The only problem is that my current laptop is still working. I just want to replace to have a new one, which is stupid
@@schweizzz the good thing is when ur current laptop kicks the bucket if framework succeds , there’s probably gonna be even more modular pieces u can connect to it or even a newer design possibly whit a dedicated gpu laptop , wich i think is the only thing missing on this laptops
Notice how there’s a charge light indicator on each side of the laptop? The one opposite of the charger sends POST codes! There’s a table they have that shows what it’s for. Cool little idea :)
Much, much easier to diagnose failing hardware! Part of why I love the diagnostic lights on my Desktop's motherboard (MSI B450M Mortar M-ATX), have not needed them yet but glad to have them!
Modularity aside on the ports, they prove you can have a sleek design with ram, storage, and network cards that aren't soldered to the motherboard. That's the biggest thing for me, sure I love the ease of repair and open approach; but if everyone else would just follow socketed ram and storage again we'd be in a much better situation.
They should Invest in the enterprise tho, with some management sw... This is a good office notebook, the repeatability surely will be liked by ITs. And they will be able to have contracts for tens or hundreds of laptop at a time, wich for a startup would be ideal
I personally would love to use it as my work laptop. Having one for an employee to use is a different story. The average employee cares about the user experience such as tactility of the keyboard, size and resolution the screen, etc. Pretty much any feature that makes their job easier they will gravitate towards. The ease in repairability will be more a convenience to me and less to them
@@chrits3396 employees are not expected to repair the device themselves. They would enjoy the hi res 3:2 screen, a good webcam, the fingerprint sensor and a nice looking laptop with the ports they need. The IT department would benefit from needing seconds to service one with a busted screen, keyboard or USB port
There absolutely is a reason to have a numpad on a laptop IF it's big enough. I bought a 17" chonk of a thinkpad (P71 I think) in part because of the numpad. Do engineering school or work in excel for a few hours and you'll see the value I promise.
The John Muir of laptop repair. How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive and Running Forever helped me make decisions about DIY versus being cheerful about paying a shop bill. The illustrations were amazing. Each set of instructions showed the tools and materials required for the job. During the pandemic, I discovered this gem on YT and stayed as a viewer after things got way busy because of RTR, the vlogs in NYC, the shop, the city, Erika and the cats. Happy little accident.
I would imagine it would be perfect as a "fleet" laptop for schools or normal duty office work. You by 2-300 and stock spare parts for one model. Should be cost effective.
I'm already recommending this for my long term planners. All of them are excited, but waiting for a little more proof before going large scale with them. If they make it to 2 years they will probably see a lot of larger clients move towards them.
I love this concept. I think as this product generates revenue for the company there will be more options and additions available. - Chassis with widescreen for those who like to watch movies. - Motherboards with different processors. - Ability to add dedicated graphics. Being able to mix and match different components from different product generations will allow you to only buy the upgraded parts that you need at a lower cost. For example say they come out with a motherboard with a amd cpu. The rest of the components in your laptop are still perfectly functional. All you need to do is pop in the new motherboard and away you go. At a much cheaper price. So I think the "price to performance" you were talking about is a little skewed when looked at long term with upgrade cycles in mind. Right now; yes you could get a laptop that outperforms the framework. In two years after using it for awhile, about the time most people decide to go out and buy a new device. All they need to do is grab the upgrades they need, and then the price will shine. Basically what I'm saying is there is a higher upfront cost to get everything needed for a functional laptop, but when it comes time to upgrade in the future - the cost is minimal, so you can easily afford to do so. AND the motherboard of the older device should be able to run standalone. SO! This means that you can utilize the older boards for something in set top boxes, or whatever. I'm picturing a rack mount blade server type design. That when you upgrade to a new board in your laptop. You place the used board in a chassis in your home server rack, and add it as a node to your home. For use in home automation or whatever. As you get multiple generations into the boards you can rotate out the older nodes and replace them with the newer more energy efficient ones. Running something like kubernetes or whatever. This is fairly niche idea granted but I think holds a definite interest for some people.
Temple OS is seriously impressive when you consider it was written by one person. And if you look up all the traits and features of the OS it just gets more impressive in light of the fact that one person wrote it by themselves.
One person holding full creative and engineering control over anything complicated, tends to actually be a good thing because they are by nature forced to take a minimalist approach where efficiency and priority is given exclusively to what is necessary - meaning things don't get bloated and crammed with all kinds of useless things that just complicate what doesn't need to be complex. And this is not just for programming, it's for basically everything. When one person is in charge of everything, you know they are not incentivized to cut corners just to please others.
I think it will be, and see Louis talked about there not being much options, well framework themselves said they are working on more options, and I think it was implied there will be a dedicated gpu option
I love the 3:2 screen. It's very convenient for photos (cameras typically shoot photos in 3:2 ratio) and even for programming, since there is more vertical space, so you see more code. It's just great.
It's one of the things I really liked about my Surface 3. That form factor is honestly very nice for a mobile device. So much widescreen space gets completely wasted in modern UI's anyways.
IMO, the mic and camera switches and never having to deal with a "genius bar" is worth $500.00 right there. If they made a workstation model, I would set my sights on it, as an upgrade from my old Thinkpad.
3 things, 1. Make it modestly water resistant, and improve the keyboard and etc build slightly. 2. Bring more spec options. 3. Bring it to my country, and I would be willing to strangle people to get one.
I first saw this as a review on Linus tech tips and considering my current laptop is a 2010 unibody Mac (the only white plastic one) that I had for 4 years of public school then bought and it's getting to the level of slow that's kinda unacceptable this laptop is most definitely on my short list just for the repairability which is why I've kept my Mac cause I've just fixed what's needed to be fixed since it was before they got super bad for repairs
@@p_serdiuk I am a consumer first so making their life hard is not something I care about. And I will pay premium price for that as well, without any brand or service guarantees based on history.
What you said at 8:42 is very important to me. This is why I keep watching your videos: you're honest about your opinions and experiences. You don't present anything in a washed up way.
For future references, when installing antenna to wifi cards, it is easier to connect the wifi antennas onto the wireless card before attaching it to the actual pcb connector it makes it easier to put together the connector are a bit fragile.
Coincidentally, that was when all electronics were made right here in the good ole USA. Interesting how this "anti-repair" crap came about at the same time that products started to be made in China.
@@SergeantExtreme Except its not the products pushing against right to repair. It's the companies making said products. A lot of which are U.S. based companies.
@@Mad-Lad-Chad This is a myth. Many people (such as yourself) think that American companies go overseas and tell manufacturers to "make this". That's not what's happening. The TRUTH is that companies go overseas, see what Chinese manufacturers are *already making,* and then simply slap their logo on it. They didn't participate in the engineering phase at all.
@@SergeantExtreme Both happen, actually. A lot of stuff that is already being made in China that just gets rebranded has it's origins in designs from foreign engineering firms, even if it's been iterated upon so many times that it's unrecognizable as the original design, anymore. Basically: Big foreign company tells Chinese factory A to make X. Factory A sells designs for X on the grey market to factory B. Factory B makes the barest minimum of changes to X to makes it slightly cheaper and just different enough to not be banned outright in countries that respect international IP laws and calls it Y, and then resells _those_ designs to factory C, who repeats the process. Then, after a few dozen iterations of this you wind up with an electronic product that is literally just 3 resistors wired directly to an AC outlet and marketed as an "Aye-phun Note 3000 One-XXX" The other thing that more scrupulous manufacturers do is just buy the designs for last gen products and polish them up. It's the Hyundai/ Kia model. Stuff from last year's lineup is still probably _fine_ and the designs are still useful, and can probably be made cheaper now than they could when they were brand new. So just license the old design, buff out some of the known bugs that weren't discovered until after the thing you're selling went into mass production, reorganize the chips to fit your new product, and slap a new plastic shell on it. Bam, perfectly useable Android phone at a fraction of the cost from when it was a flagship model. (IDK if this is specifically done with phones, but it is 100% done with all kinds of stuff.) Also, a lot of "cheap Chinese" goods are often times just made out of components from name brands that just barely didn't meet spec, but are still totally functional. The real test is whether or not they are used ethically to within the spec that these parts can handle, or if they get thrown slapdash into something with zero regard for quality or safety. There is a growing amount of homebrew Chinese engineering happening, for sure, and some of it's actually half-way decent, but it seems to me that at this point in time the first scenario is still predominantly what's going on over there.
@@Mad-Lad-Chad yes and no. Samsung isn't American but Japanese, same with Toshiba, Sony, etc. Some of the people who assemble the parts are American or European but the large majority of raw part manufacturers (Flash Memory, Chips, etc) come from Asia and are largely manufactured in China. Additionally you're forgetting a very important detail: in order for a company to sell it's products in China (the largest market in the world) companies are required to sell a piece of the corporation to the CCP directly. So in a sense even if the company was founded in America but sells it's products in China, it's actually more of a Chinese company.
What I was thinking when Linus talk about Framework laptop is will they brave enough sending this to mr Rossmann and get his opinion... And they totally very brave with excitement bonus from mr Rossmann himself when taking it apart, a very rare occurrence as long as I subbed to his channel all this years, framework will get my kudos just for that.
Imagine: being able to mix-and-match compatible parts from different vendors and brands. Just pick out a phone (Fairphone, Shift, etc.) or laptop (Framework 14-16-17, Tongfang, etc.) chassis and the accompanying motherboard, battery and the rest can be custom-configured to my heart's content! • display • ports • RAM • SSD drive(s) • keyboard keycaps & switches • chassis with customizable materials, colors, hinges, laser etching, RGB, and trackpad surfaces • open source PCIe 5.0 add-in graphics cards standard (something like "pico MXM" if it existed)
I need this framework laptop: - with AMD options - with a num pad on the keyboard - thicker to have more connectivity options and optional Blu-ray drive - optional 17"+ screen - looking less like an apple (sorry, I fancy black plastic over silver anytime 😂) So I hope they'll expand their choices. Definitely rooting for them. A small German shop called krotus-computer offers modular laptops, too. They don't offer the same variability, however you can choose your configuration, you have good accessibility for changing and repairing parts and the core hardware is modular so you can replace/slightly upgrade motherboard+CPU, GPU, RAM, drive. You can't chose or switch any connectors on the case though but it's also a step in the right direction. Sadly these guys are basically unknown.
I imagine that people will eventually 3rd party this if it gets off the ground. They released CADs of the chassis so it shouldn't long before we see diys of things.
31:51 - It doesn't matter.... one is primary antenna and the other is backup/secondary. The idea is that they are both eventually run in different areas to give you the best coverage (from my experience)
The fact that they make all the screws the same make me feel good😊, and it’s magnetic, yes I do repairs. If I ever need a new computer I’ll probably be getting one
@@willa8720 Yes, but that's not the whole story as to why I'm writing here. The whole plastic exterior broke practically when I first got it (maybe a year in) including the plastic hinge covering and the hinge a little. But what completely broke it was the power cord not operating from being loosened too much from the plastic hinge being broken. It doesn't charge, so I took apart the entire computer and saw the internal screws got loose - that was the whole reason!
older laptops and electronics are notorious for using different types of screws for the same product. It's actually just recent that electronics do this thing.
I would love to see Framework (right to repair) and System76 (firmware and software freedom) come together. I am seriously considering purchasing one of these for my next laptop and installing Pop on it.
I could actually see the Framework laptops becoming more economical over the long term, especially when you're just adding more ram, replacing the GPU/CPU, or replacing the keyboard/battery where you would otherwise have to buy a whole new laptop.
As soon as the have versions with AMD parts it's becoming my go to upgrade path. My cheap HP is somewhat repairable and upgradeable but it has nothing on the Framework laptop, and it'd be nice to have a laptop with a metal body instead of plastic finally
Replacing the CPU only existed on old thinkpads with rare Intel M cpus and replacing the GPU is just a dream. You would need to also replace the bus, vram and power delivery while not having a 10cm thick laptop.
@@theairaccumulator7144 Replacing CPus has existed until Thinkpads T440Ps, and that is Haswell generation. So its doable, albeit impractical given the thickness people now want from their laptops
Don't forget, the premium price you pay up front will safe you lots of money later on, when you simply repair the device yourself at home, instead of sending it to a repair shop and paying lots of money (+ get a wiped device back).
Honestly wiping part is mostly understandable, if you ever worked on computers other than your own, you know how starting with a "clean slate" to diagnose issues feel like.
@@mineborders Yes. I have. And I always imaged the disk to an external drive first, before wiping. Companies could offer that. With a fee, but they could at least offer it.
@@phillee2814 I stand corrected, that's fantastic! I definitely missed that. I can't think of another device on the market on this level. I'm genuinely happy this exists!
You took the most idiotic approach and started without reading the manual - just like any ordinary user such as myself would. Great video, thank you for this realistic review! 😂
Working as a part time laptop technician, I've learned to look for service manuals first. It saves me some time and gives me peace of mind knowing I'm going through the process correctly :) Manufacturers who refuse to publish service manuals should go to hell. HP, Lenovo and Dell are fine, their manuals are readily available and perfectly usable. Asus, Toshiba, Samsung and all others are on my shit list.
I don't think we have ever heard Louis this excited when reviewing a product. Nice job Framework. I asked them if they would make a heavy duty version, like the old Tough Books, I'm an auto mechanic and I would love to have a heavy duty Framework laptop that I use to diagnose cars.
I have high hopes for this little guy. He's going to revolutionize the market. Even for the lay-user, being able to swap out ports or even stick on another hard drive, will be invaluable in a world of dongles. And if/when a 13" version comes out, and when my beloved Dell XPS dies, I'll be taking a very hard look at this. Best of luck to all the guys at Framework.
Absolutely love this video, and I love this laptop. This is such a well engineered solution that actually feels like it's intended to be sold to me, rather than tricking me into buying a new laptop every year or two.
Excactly Ram doesn't work? Buy a new one for 50€ and put it in Hafing a spicy pillow ? Buy a new Batterie Need more space? buy a bigger ssd It feels weel ingenered and i love it
Thank you for showcasing this Louis! Can't wait to see it with an OS on it. Now excuse me while I go replace my Lenovo P50's keyboard I spilled something into..
@@superslimanoniem4712 If he does have time to further review it, I hope he does some linux variant and windows tbh. It'd be nice to see how both work since I (like many people) am stuck on windows for work.
Great review and I genuinely hope Framework would pick up steam in their business. Having said that, I also take it with a grain of salt that they succeed, this whole concept seems familiar (The project Ara modular phone from several years back). The people behind the original idea made us dream about the possibilities of a modular phone BUT the big boys for Alphabet stepped in, bought the rights and the name and then basically killed it.
I'm getting a different configurator here although I chose DIY which I think cuts the price due to reduced labour costs on their end. As an enthusiast power user I'd like to build it myself anyway. Config: i5-1135G7 (8M cache, 4.2GHz max clock, 4C/8T) Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX210 1TB WD Black SN750 NVMe No OS (i.e DIY it) 16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200 $1,073 + $100 pre-order deposit Then you can mix and match port expansion cards HDMI 2.0b Micro SD DisplayPort 1.4 • $19/each USB-A 3.2 Gen 2 USB-C - w/ 20V5A charging + DisplayPort Alt Mide • $9/each 250GB expansion card 1000MB/s - 375MB/s read/write respectively • $69 1TB expansion card 1000MB/s - 1000MB/s read/write respectively • $149 You'll want to add 4 of these ideally to cover all slots. Let's say you want 2xUSBs One of the video outs A microSD card reader You're looking at $1129 + pre-order deposit Given its USP and other cool features I don't think this is a bad price. Might'nt be such a bad rub vs your 2017 ThinkPad Louis.
I've used Ventoy to demo several Linux distributions, and it works flawlessly! Very easy to use, little to no fiddling around required, and it's even compatible with Secure Boot.
I remember when ThinkPads and even consumer Toshiba laptops had EXTERNAL removable batteries, guess we should be lucky to at least get this level of user replaceable or swappable battery
@@Sam-tb9xu Tough Books are impressive, but yeah, the swappable batteries (plural) are so that off grid power can be supplied while doing a battery replacement in situ. An unusual design, but I understand why they offer it. I mostly lament that Panasonic does not offer its Japanese model laptops in the USA. Unlike the Toughbook models, some weigh around 2lbs and have BluRay burners, so they are thin & light, and very versatile.
39:12 "no they're the same." You can see in this frame one stick has 8 chips per side while the other has only 4. There was recent coverage of this issue concerning greater memory density resulting in fewer chips necessary to achieve the same capacity on a stick, which can impact performance as the memory controller has to divide the same capacity against fewer chips. There's also the chance that these two sticks run different timings considering the generational difference in sourced parts. It's unfortunate crucial doesn't do a better job labeling their memory, given that a casual observance results in missing these details.
I'd love to see bigger, workstation-tier models with more RAM slots and modular GPUs with official cross-generation upgradability. GPU modules could be MXM, DGFF or whatever HP is using on the Zbook 17 Fury G8.
There was a time you could more readily buy MXM modules... but not so much any more. I suppose, theoretically if a OEM had a chip with all the compatible MXM modules stuffed into - it would be a breeze for plug and play. Sure, it would increase the B.O.M by a few cents but it would be worth it in the long run in terms of extensibility and upgradability. As users could simply update that chip with a driver update or similiar process. By doing this, we avoid having to mess around with the BIOS / UEFI not to mention custom bios and uefi updates.
@@earthtaurus5515 What I don't understand is what makes "X" laptop incompatible with "Z" MXM GPU. Is it always a deliberate limitation put in place by the manufacturer in order to avoid having people upgrade undefinitely? When I first learned about MXM GPUs I thought they would be like what desktop PCs have been doing for ages now. Too bad most of the time a laptop's GPU can only be upgraded within certain "supported" models which are most often limited to a specific generation or architecture. Of course there are vbios and .inf file tricks for making "unsupported" models work but that shouldn't be the norm IMO. PD: From what I've seen on the internet, the HP Elitebook 8770W is probably one of the easiest to upgrade in this regard. I've seen it running a GTX1070 (pascal), which is two generations newer than then officially supported models (Quadro K series, Kepler).
@@YeOldeKamikaze It's down to a few things 1) The port for the MXM module - which the notches on the connector, the number of pins a module has on the connector. 2)The size of module, this because of the tight spaces inside a laptop chasis. 3)Support inside the BIOS/UEFI for plug and play - that's not much of an issue these days (since laptops have their own igpus, so installing drivers can be done at O/S level) but still needs to be considered in terms of ease of use, extensibility and repairability - which is why a dedicated chip for MXM modules is better. As users are not reliant on laptop OEMs updating the bios/uefi to support latest MXM modules. OEMs are notoriously bad when it comes to keeping laptop drivers and the bios updated. 4)I'm not entirely sure what happened with MXM and how the momentum was lost in creating a open standard for GPUs in laptops. As far as I can tell it fingers point to lost steam when Nvidia abandoned it and apparently Nvidia controls MXM-Sig as a subsidary... 🤷♂️🤷♂️
I used to be obsessed with opening boxes while keeping them intact, then I started installing electric fixtures by hundreds a week and ended up doing it like Mr. Rossmann here! it feels so good sometimes to just open it clean but it kills me when it gets stuck so I just rip them apart now.
Remember my uncle giving me his "broken" laptop, like ~8 years ago or something now, only had a bad HD, so I put in a cheap SSD, fixed. Offered it back, told him it only cost like $40 to fix and will work 10x better than before now with a stable windows 7 bloatware free setup as well, but he already had bought a new one and told me to keep it lol... Still using it today, mostly just for browsing and movie watching, sometimes word processing and other random stuff just about any device can do. Just recently bought a replacement battery for ~$18, which I was very surprised to see readily available for cheap. So, I can relate to waiting for it to basically turn to dust before getting a new one haha...
My mom had an old hp compaq laptop that was extremely repairable very similar to this. Everything had a sticker with the part number and all of the main stuff that you would replace even down to the wifi card was accessable via the back of the laptop. All of the ports were on ribbon cables as well. The cpu was even socketable. Its a shame laptops arent like this anymore.
"it's ugly and big and blocky" The same idiots who say this and prefer disposable e-waste products that have a two year life cycle say we need to save the planet by not burning any type of fuel.
Made my first appearance in a Rossmann stream at 42:10 :). I'm really wishing this company huge success. I've put in a pre-order that will ship out in October and I couldn't be more excited!
Saw the design of this thing over a month ago and immediately preordered one. It was the thoughtfulness of the design that won me over. So many companies pay lipservice to the concept of good design, but when an engineer spends the time to really think about this stuff, it shows, that's hard to fake.
I'm missing a few things from Framework: - trackpoint - ryzen version, hopefully with many cores to compile those gentoo packages quickly - A Logitech Unifying receiver + USB-A port module would be nice, external mouse+keyboard without using up a USB slot. - wired ethernet option - a touchscreen option would be nice Despite all this, I will consider it if I need to buy a laptop. I want them to succeed.
- I think Lenovo owns the rights for trackpoint. But I'm not sure on that - Go visit their forum. They want to start working on Ryzen version - They are working on a hidden USB Port module - also 1G ethernet port
I think we need to split the repair wiki into software and hardware. There's so much in software to fix if it breaks and with open source - it'll be a huge wealth of info.
@@darekmistrz4364 Thanks. I saw that it is split up into that, but we're going to need to grow the software section into teaching people how to navigate software as well. Once there's enough info in software - I hope for this separation.
Software and hardware do need a split, but firmware embeds to hardware that they can't just 'physically design', like a BIOS ROM... Which muddles things
Also it is to small for me, I would go for 15.6" This is probably only company which could potentially have a trackpad with 3 dedicated buttons and surfice with tackle feedback different to the case. I hate flimsy TouchPads. Also Gigantic touchpads are annoying. Just swiping for ages, some even on max speed.
I think it was because of thunderbolt, thats an Intel thing only, for now. They couldn't do modular hdmi or display ports through basic usb-c, because of the latency without thunderbolt. They are trying to get better stuff, also gpu support for later. Thats what I heard anyways.
@@reelrecaps7927 Schematics are a problem because Framework doesn't make the Motherboards. So it's the motherboard manufacturer that has the final say in releasing them. But as said in the video, independent repair shops can get them.
@@RACGump Once first repair shop gets their hands on the schematic, everyone will. That said, They should've made sure the schematic issue is covered in their deal with the manufacturer.
@32:00 Most of the circuitry is based off of diode transistors operating in switch mode and those are directional in reference to bias voltage and common. If you swap the leads you could risk running a diode into reverse breakdown. Then, BANG. A nice black spot where you had a transistor :)
I have a Batch 3 laptop coming from them next month! I could use a laptop for school but because I have a desktop, I don't need need one. It would be convenient, so I have looked several times and never once been satisfied about what my options are for the cost. I have a Batch 3 coming in October and I am sooo excited about it! The cost is quite reasonable, and finally I could convince myself of buying one.
My desktop is under my desk, and the USB-C port is in the back of the computer. There is no USB-C port on the front of my computer. So, this would've required kneeling down and going under my desk to the back of my computer....... at midnight.... I'm a brave man, but I'm not superman.
When one considers this is a "first product" from a "new company" and that is hits •so many• of the high points of what I would like to see in MY LAPTOP. (If only it would run MacOS, it would be on my list.)
The Lenovo thinkpad E580, 585, 595 and E15s I know also have the screws that don’t fall out and it’s awesome. I like the whole, not reading the manual. It helps show how intuitive it is.
That style of fastener is called a captive fastener, or more specifically in this case captive screw. I am really really digging this piece of gear, I really want one now, I just wish it was all black.
ngl, this is amazing. There should be more companies that respect their clientele enough to make laptops that modular. No glue in sight, everything nicely screwed together, Phoneblok like modular ports, omg.. I'm so happy this exists!
If framework continues to support their form factors with easy board swaps for upgraded hardware I'm 100% getting one of these. The design is excellent as a piece for Right to Repair movement and very consumer friendly. The only other thing I can ask of Framework is to try and give us unlocked instead of the usual lockdown firmware present on most laptops but I get that they might not have a choice since the firmware market for laptops and desktops is basically just an oligopoly
My only two gripes so far is the relatively small amount of I/O, and the lack of a rj45 port. That being said, there are multi-usb and ethernet expansion cards in the works currently, and I’m really excited to see what’s in store for the future
the only thing prevented me from buying it is, that only intel is avaible and there is no dedicated video card(an entry level 1650ti would do the trick)...otherwise very impressing, I wish Framework to be successful
THIS IS THE BEST PRODUCT REVIEW I HAVE EVER SEEN ON RUclips. If I was a hardware company, I would PAY for this kind of content. Not just give you the hardware, I would pay you heftly.
The problem is that most companies make garbage products and use the whoring "influencers" for biased hyped reviews. Honest reviewers rarely get to be in the giveaways ---- and honest companies are just...rare.. 😒
I plan to buy one, my current non-gaming laptop works but will be replaced once it craps out with this. Current laptop is 5 years old or so. I like and love the repair-ablity of this. Hope they pair with Micro Center to make islt easier to buy and gets part for repair.
Hahaha at half a ball hanging out 🤣 Definitely not a brown fissure though, as Louis has told us in the past he washes his asshole rather than drying it.
I love the concept and see myself consider buying this when changing laptops just as a vote of confidence in the company. I do however think they pushed to hard to the "lego" side of things and being able to just pull the screen border or it falling from bumping the laptop is a bad thing as i want once I'm not trying to take it appart not to fall apart in my hands on its own
How secure is the magnetic bezel? I would personally prefer at least a few clips so it doesn't come loose and get broken in a bag or something. As long as they are sturdy and don't break instantly as many OEM bezels do.
I'd think they'd be using components' magnetic properties to keep the effect for as long as the device lives, so if it would get apart, so would be your device's ability to work
I've been impatiently waiting for this to be available in the UK, would be very happy to support this. I do wish the right shift was smaller so that the up and down keys could be bigger though. Yeah, but have you tried modern Linux though? I really think it's come a long way (in recent years), Manjaro with kde is great
Came back after the stream just to say I support what this company is doing and hope it goes well for them. If possible I would like to order one soon and if you support customer choice and repairability then please consider them as well so maybe they can get to that point Louis was talking about with more skus and options. GL Framework!
Hi Louis, the captured screws on the chassis is something Dell has been doing for several years now. Of all the mass-produced laptops, the Dell Latitude laptops are the easiest to work on for me as a tech.
They have to get rid of bezels on the screen.
Fuck no. None of this edge to edge glass bullshit. It just makes things more breakable for no good reason.
What harm have bezels ever done you?
Did bezels have sex with your mother?
Cause you to fail out of school?
Fire you from your job?
Shut down your economy due to a virus?
Bezels have done *NO HARM* and NO economic damage to a single man, woman or child on this planet; yet they *CONSISTENTLY* receive unwarranted hate & denigration. It stops here, and it stops now! We are going to start a new movement, the stop bezel hate movement.
@@rossmanngroup Heck yeah, give me fat bezels so I can adjust my screen without rubbing thumbs all over it!
@@rossmanngroup ... but is it thin? I want to have sex with an anorexic laptop.
I'm all for bezels too. What thickness of the frame is OK though? Do you prefer narrow or thick? For me, roughly 5…10 millimeters is ok.
Unrelated, but honestly I have to say I hate the trend screens have gone with modern devices. Rounded edges, bends, holes, all that just feels like parts of my screen are being covered. I just want a nice rectangle and nothing more.
Thanks for digging into the product! Just some notes as we watch:
The USB-C Expansion Card is indeed intended to be "sacrificial" as an alternative to wrecking the mainboard if you trip on a cable or wrench it somehow.
There's a Phillips PH0 on the other side of that T5 bit to use for the little Phillips screws that we had to use in some spots for height clearance reasons.
There are two more spare fasteners near the battery connector. I don't remember why we put them there instead of next to the other fasteners...
It looks like those two sticks of RAM actually are different. I picked up two random sticks from our office when sending this out. For a real customer order, the sticks would match.
First boot after installing RAM takes a while because it's doing memory training.
And hard power off is currently a 12 second press (which we are shortening, because that is definitely too long).
I hope they succeed. This level of repairability should be the norm
Same, in the future if I need a laptop and have a large budget ill take their laptop in a heatbeat but otherwise, for a $800 min config I could get a FAR better amd laptop that may not be repairable, but itll still be worth it. Price is the major factor for me.
seriously, that's 0.5x to slow.
I don't think they will. It's just the world seems to hate when we have a nice things.
All it needs is a standardization of graphics card port... And of course users changeable
@@NeoJ4K3 how about cpu replacements?
My first impression about this is "this laptop is the collection of good ideas the creators couldn't get past management at their previous workplaces".
🤣🤣🤣
Didn't Clevo try something along the Framework thing a little while back?
All of these ideas would have failed the big question, which is "how much more can we profit from this?"
@@YeOldeKamikaze you may have forgotten part 2: how much more can screw customer with lies
@@effexon Yeah. Some manufacturers seem to go out of their way to screw their own customers lol.
„I don’t want this to be niche - I want this to be normal!“
100% agreed.
69 nice
59:49 please get in the habit
NORMALS don't want it and they not techies drive the mass market. Eternal summer is here and being technically capable was NEVER normal even before the computer age. Technology is magic to morons and most humans just want appliances. Any techie who doesn't understand humanity has issues. Be happy there are enough of us to support these ventures but know they can never be "normal". Normals just want to drool on themselves and be entertained.
I completely understand their concern releasing the technical drawings. When you spend a considerable amount of funds on R&D you have to protect your intellectual property. It is too easy for another company to make a clone of your device and undercut the costs because the clone company doesn't have to recover the R&D costs.
Exactly why I think they won't release to the public. Completely understandable as well, as soon as they said they weren't sure if they would release schematics I knew it was so they could figure out how to protect their research and design investments.
I actually see a slightly bigger issue for framework, do they have Intel's permission to distribute the pin out for the CPU/chipset and/or any other chip on the board that they sourced from a third party?
Louis is opening the screen so carefully… Almost as if it was a Macbook with a short LCD cable. Relax, the hinge does 180 just fine!
The ptsd is too real
@@Duffman19370 Do you know how scared I am everytime someone used to come in with an A1706/A1707/A1708 model and we'd do a motherboard/keyboard/trackpad repair to it... ? I would literally open it just enough to see the screen and THAT'S IT... because if the screen wire FINALLY BREAKS while it's with ME, I'm getting blamed for it...
PTSD indeed!
@@rossmanngroup If you do the 180 on the framework you can easily take off the magnetic bezel and look at the hinges and the cable :)
@@rossmanngroup Literally had this happen to me just recently. Client brought in a pc laptop with a broken hinge, all that needed to be done was that the plastic needed to be reattached to the metal palmrest cover. So I remove the battery, and apply epoxy to the hinge and clamp it down. No cables removed other than the battery. Once it finished curing, powered it on, and NOTHING on the screen. Client claimed that the system worked just fine when it was brought in. Client also failed to mention that they DROPPED the system during the check-in process. Granted it's on me that I didn't check that it worked before starting work, but we got slammed that week and I just wanted it out of my shop as fast as possible.
The ram is physically different, just take a look at it, you can see it in the video, not sure it matters tho.
The good thing is, this is proof that everything doesn't have to be glued/riveted to produce a reasonably thin production laptop, killing the argument of mainstream manufacturers!
Amen!
"The Dells not even fucking thinner!" - Linus, LTT Framework video. Linus had it side by side with the Dell XPS 15. Linus sounded the same as Louis when he found the magnetic screen bezel.
Its about speeed. Manufacturing speed. Trust me its a lot easire/faster in mass production to glue/rivet. It was never about what is possible or not, what is cheaper/faster.
@@tamaselmont8310 Then why are things that are cheaper/faster to manufacture still more expensive?
@@TheRealDescartes things are cheaper to manufacture so the company can make more money, not for you to save a buck.
I could have spent less money buying another XPS 13 to be my new writing/development/hobby laptop, but I bought a Batch 1 Framework because I believe the extra cost is worthwhile to make the company a long term success and to help rebuild a solid piece of the market for easily serviceable and repairable computer equipment.
If only I had this amount of moral coherency
Nice. I'm thinking about buying for a similar reason. The only problem is that my current laptop is still working. I just want to replace to have a new one, which is stupid
@@schweizzz the good thing is when ur current laptop kicks the bucket if framework succeds , there’s probably gonna be even more modular pieces u can connect to it or even a newer design possibly whit a dedicated gpu laptop , wich i think is the only thing missing on this laptops
@@schweizzz what good will a modular laptop be, if you are bored of your functioning laptop 😂
@@scramjet7466 true 😀
Notice how there’s a charge light indicator on each side of the laptop? The one opposite of the charger sends POST codes! There’s a table they have that shows what it’s for. Cool little idea :)
Much, much easier to diagnose failing hardware! Part of why I love the diagnostic lights on my Desktop's motherboard (MSI B450M Mortar M-ATX), have not needed them yet but glad to have them!
My favorite part are the two hardware switches for the microphone and camera. Reckon we've finally got a computer for secure workplaces.
Would be neat to verify it schematically
@@nonenothingnull I have one. It's a physical electrical disconnect switch. VERY cool. Not just no signal, but no power entirely.
@@nonenothingnull you can take the bezel off and look for yourself. It physically disconnects the power.
Modularity aside on the ports, they prove you can have a sleek design with ram, storage, and network cards that aren't soldered to the motherboard. That's the biggest thing for me, sure I love the ease of repair and open approach; but if everyone else would just follow socketed ram and storage again we'd be in a much better situation.
I think IT departments will love this laptop. The modularity and repaired ability make it such a good buy
Some will.
At the enterprise level, though, too many are addicted to Dell/HP/Lenovo managed services to bother repairing individual devices.
They should Invest in the enterprise tho, with some management sw... This is a good office notebook, the repeatability surely will be liked by ITs. And they will be able to have contracts for tens or hundreds of laptop at a time, wich for a startup would be ideal
I personally would love to use it as my work laptop. Having one for an employee to use is a different story. The average employee cares about the user experience such as tactility of the keyboard, size and resolution the screen, etc. Pretty much any feature that makes their job easier they will gravitate towards. The ease in repairability will be more a convenience to me and less to them
@@chrits3396 employees are not expected to repair the device themselves. They would enjoy the hi res 3:2 screen, a good webcam, the fingerprint sensor and a nice looking laptop with the ports they need. The IT department would benefit from needing seconds to service one with a busted screen, keyboard or USB port
Is it actually more repairable? Will framework sell parts and provide schematics to the units?
I wish Framework the best! They're one of the best things to happen for right-to-repair in a long time!
There absolutely is a reason to have a numpad on a laptop IF it's big enough. I bought a 17" chonk of a thinkpad (P71 I think) in part because of the numpad. Do engineering school or work in excel for a few hours and you'll see the value I promise.
In the spirit of AvE, spray the underside of the keyboard with Flex Seal for DIY water resistance.
No the Ave solution would be to spray it on top .. it's flexible aint it :D
"A happy little globe, happy tree, all that nice shit"
The Bob Ross of laptop repair.
Yes if Bob Ross was from NYC, had no filter and was R rated.
Bob Rossmann
The John Muir of laptop repair. How to Keep Your Volkswagen Alive and Running Forever helped me make decisions about DIY versus being cheerful about paying a shop bill. The illustrations were amazing. Each set of instructions showed the tools and materials required for the job.
During the pandemic, I discovered this gem on YT and stayed as a viewer after things got way busy because of RTR, the vlogs in NYC, the shop, the city, Erika and the cats.
Happy little accident.
@@woodenhoe Boubis Rossmann
@@pinkfloydflamingo9788 That's one book I've wanted to read for a long time. Thanks for reminding me.
I would imagine it would be perfect as a "fleet" laptop for schools or normal duty office work.
You by 2-300 and stock spare parts for one model.
Should be cost effective.
Oh yeah, nice!
Probably too expensive. You mean instead of Chromebooks for students or laptops for teachers?
I'm already recommending this for my long term planners. All of them are excited, but waiting for a little more proof before going large scale with them. If they make it to 2 years they will probably see a lot of larger clients move towards them.
The idea sounds nice, but I can see teenagers pulling the screen bezel off and throw them around like a frisbee
@@moshikitrain that's the bonus feature...
9:36 - the term is "captive screws". Yes, they're very nice.
I love this concept.
I think as this product generates revenue for the company there will be more options and additions available.
- Chassis with widescreen for those who like to watch movies.
- Motherboards with different processors.
- Ability to add dedicated graphics.
Being able to mix and match different components from different product generations will allow you to only buy the upgraded parts that you need at a lower cost. For example say they come out with a motherboard with a amd cpu. The rest of the components in your laptop are still perfectly functional. All you need to do is pop in the new motherboard and away you go. At a much cheaper price. So I think the "price to performance" you were talking about is a little skewed when looked at long term with upgrade cycles in mind. Right now; yes you could get a laptop that outperforms the framework. In two years after using it for awhile, about the time most people decide to go out and buy a new device. All they need to do is grab the upgrades they need, and then the price will shine.
Basically what I'm saying is there is a higher upfront cost to get everything needed for a functional laptop, but when it comes time to upgrade in the future - the cost is minimal, so you can easily afford to do so. AND the motherboard of the older device should be able to run standalone. SO! This means that you can utilize the older boards for something in set top boxes, or whatever.
I'm picturing a rack mount blade server type design. That when you upgrade to a new board in your laptop. You place the used board in a chassis in your home server rack, and add it as a node to your home. For use in home automation or whatever. As you get multiple generations into the boards you can rotate out the older nodes and replace them with the newer more energy efficient ones. Running something like kubernetes or whatever.
This is fairly niche idea granted but I think holds a definite interest for some people.
@@lasagneman5586 Yup, I saw the announcement on Linus's Channel.
Temple OS is seriously impressive when you consider it was written by one person. And if you look up all the traits and features of the OS it just gets more impressive in light of the fact that one person wrote it by themselves.
One person who was a paranoid schizophrenic! Sad, but even more impressive!
I love Terry.
One person holding full creative and engineering control over anything complicated, tends to actually be a good thing because they are by nature forced to take a minimalist approach where efficiency and priority is given exclusively to what is necessary - meaning things don't get bloated and crammed with all kinds of useless things that just complicate what doesn't need to be complex.
And this is not just for programming, it's for basically everything. When one person is in charge of everything, you know they are not incentivized to cut corners just to please others.
Imagine a world where this level of reparability was standard, expected of devices, or even mandatory.
I think it will be, and see Louis talked about there not being much options, well framework themselves said they are working on more options, and I think it was implied there will be a dedicated gpu option
My Grandad used to fix everything at home, from the TV and VCR to the kitchen appliances.. can't even get *parts* these days
@@unbearifiedbear1885 it's a real Shame the maker arm project fell through, one could have built their own parts
@@alphagiga4878 yessir 😔
This would actually solve the massive e waste problem we have rn
I love the 3:2 screen. It's very convenient for photos (cameras typically shoot photos in 3:2 ratio) and even for programming, since there is more vertical space, so you see more code. It's just great.
It's one of the things I really liked about my Surface 3. That form factor is honestly very nice for a mobile device. So much widescreen space gets completely wasted in modern UI's anyways.
16:10 is much better for programming imo. 3:2 is kinda awkward in modern times.
IMO, the mic and camera switches and never having to deal with a "genius bar" is worth $500.00 right there. If they made a workstation model, I would set my sights on it, as an upgrade from my old Thinkpad.
3 things,
1. Make it modestly water resistant, and improve the keyboard and etc build slightly.
2. Bring more spec options.
3. Bring it to my country, and I would be willing to strangle people to get one.
I first saw this as a review on Linus tech tips and considering my current laptop is a 2010 unibody Mac (the only white plastic one) that I had for 4 years of public school then bought and it's getting to the level of slow that's kinda unacceptable this laptop is most definitely on my short list just for the repairability which is why I've kept my Mac cause I've just fixed what's needed to be fixed since it was before they got super bad for repairs
@@SteinCodes 1) is very hard to do with modules tho.
@@p_serdiuk I am a consumer first so making their life hard is not something I care about. And I will pay premium price for that as well, without any brand or service guarantees based on history.
@Kent Teffeteller 2. Lack of spec options.
3. Not available in my country lol :(
What you said at 8:42 is very important to me. This is why I keep watching your videos: you're honest about your opinions and experiences. You don't present anything in a washed up way.
For future references, when installing antenna to wifi cards, it is easier to connect the wifi antennas onto the wireless card before attaching it to the actual pcb connector it makes it easier to put together the connector are a bit fragile.
I'm old enough to remember when all electronics had schematics inside of them as well as a complete parts list!
Coincidentally, that was when all electronics were made right here in the good ole USA. Interesting how this "anti-repair" crap came about at the same time that products started to be made in China.
@@SergeantExtreme Except its not the products pushing against right to repair. It's the companies making said products. A lot of which are U.S. based companies.
@@Mad-Lad-Chad This is a myth. Many people (such as yourself) think that American companies go overseas and tell manufacturers to "make this". That's not what's happening.
The TRUTH is that companies go overseas, see what Chinese manufacturers are *already making,* and then simply slap their logo on it. They didn't participate in the engineering phase at all.
@@SergeantExtreme Both happen, actually. A lot of stuff that is already being made in China that just gets rebranded has it's origins in designs from foreign engineering firms, even if it's been iterated upon so many times that it's unrecognizable as the original design, anymore. Basically: Big foreign company tells Chinese factory A to make X. Factory A sells designs for X on the grey market to factory B. Factory B makes the barest minimum of changes to X to makes it slightly cheaper and just different enough to not be banned outright in countries that respect international IP laws and calls it Y, and then resells _those_ designs to factory C, who repeats the process. Then, after a few dozen iterations of this you wind up with an electronic product that is literally just 3 resistors wired directly to an AC outlet and marketed as an "Aye-phun Note 3000 One-XXX"
The other thing that more scrupulous manufacturers do is just buy the designs for last gen products and polish them up. It's the Hyundai/ Kia model. Stuff from last year's lineup is still probably _fine_ and the designs are still useful, and can probably be made cheaper now than they could when they were brand new. So just license the old design, buff out some of the known bugs that weren't discovered until after the thing you're selling went into mass production, reorganize the chips to fit your new product, and slap a new plastic shell on it. Bam, perfectly useable Android phone at a fraction of the cost from when it was a flagship model. (IDK if this is specifically done with phones, but it is 100% done with all kinds of stuff.)
Also, a lot of "cheap Chinese" goods are often times just made out of components from name brands that just barely didn't meet spec, but are still totally functional. The real test is whether or not they are used ethically to within the spec that these parts can handle, or if they get thrown slapdash into something with zero regard for quality or safety.
There is a growing amount of homebrew Chinese engineering happening, for sure, and some of it's actually half-way decent, but it seems to me that at this point in time the first scenario is still predominantly what's going on over there.
@@Mad-Lad-Chad yes and no. Samsung isn't American but Japanese, same with Toshiba, Sony, etc. Some of the people who assemble the parts are American or European but the large majority of raw part manufacturers (Flash Memory, Chips, etc) come from Asia and are largely manufactured in China. Additionally you're forgetting a very important detail: in order for a company to sell it's products in China (the largest market in the world) companies are required to sell a piece of the corporation to the CCP directly. So in a sense even if the company was founded in America but sells it's products in China, it's actually more of a Chinese company.
What I was thinking when Linus talk about Framework laptop is will they brave enough sending this to mr Rossmann and get his opinion... And they totally very brave with excitement bonus from mr Rossmann himself when taking it apart, a very rare occurrence as long as I subbed to his channel all this years, framework will get my kudos just for that.
I'm glad they set these out to real people like Louis. Sending it out to underwear shilling clowns like Linus isn't useful.
@@mjc0961 Linus has a quarter million dollar stake in framework 💀💀💀
Imagine: being able to mix-and-match compatible parts from different vendors and brands.
Just pick out a phone (Fairphone, Shift, etc.) or laptop (Framework 14-16-17, Tongfang, etc.) chassis and the accompanying motherboard, battery and the rest can be custom-configured to my heart's content!
• display
• ports
• RAM
• SSD drive(s)
• keyboard keycaps & switches
• chassis with customizable materials, colors, hinges, laser etching, RGB, and trackpad surfaces
• open source PCIe 5.0 add-in graphics cards standard (something like "pico MXM" if it existed)
You mean like a...desktop? What is this magick?
You can order the DIY version of the framework without RAM, SSD and Wifi card, and use whatever you have laying around or bought elsewhere
I don't have to imagine, I own a desktop
@@CharlieSnipp Yes like a desktop/Mac Pro but a laptop or phone.
You mean how it used to be for all of prior human history?
The moment Louis mentioned "Temple OS" I snorted so hard. 11/10 keep it up.
"I'm not an influencer, I'm a bum." Your humility, sir, is breathtaking.
I hope this becomes normal and then cost of the laptop and replacement parts comes down as economies of scale kick in.
"I'm confident that someone at the Genius Bar would be able to rip that"
Oh snap
"Oh snap" The sound of a Genius breaking a cable.
I need this framework laptop:
- with AMD options
- with a num pad on the keyboard
- thicker to have more connectivity options and optional Blu-ray drive
- optional 17"+ screen
- looking less like an apple (sorry, I fancy black plastic over silver anytime 😂)
So I hope they'll expand their choices. Definitely rooting for them.
A small German shop called krotus-computer offers modular laptops, too. They don't offer the same variability, however you can choose your configuration, you have good accessibility for changing and repairing parts and the core hardware is modular so you can replace/slightly upgrade motherboard+CPU, GPU, RAM, drive.
You can't chose or switch any connectors on the case though but it's also a step in the right direction.
Sadly these guys are basically unknown.
Maybe just with TB docking station with slots for BlueRay and connectivity?
@@piotrd.4850
I'd accept that, but I definitely need an optical drive option. 👍
I imagine that people will eventually 3rd party this if it gets off the ground. They released CADs of the chassis so it shouldn't long before we see diys of things.
@@MuzikMan2014
I do hope so! Will support framework as soon as they launch in Europe! 🙏👍 The world needs this!
yes and floppy drive pls and iphone storage bay
31:51 - It doesn't matter.... one is primary antenna and the other is backup/secondary. The idea is that they are both eventually run in different areas to give you the best coverage (from my experience)
The fact that they make all the screws the same make me feel good😊, and it’s magnetic, yes I do repairs.
If I ever need a new computer I’ll probably be getting one
As a PC enthusiast who loves doing occasional upgrades, as soon as they have a AMD version of the mobo I'm deffinitly going to be grabbing one
I can't wait to fix my lenovo g500s alongside adding it to the repair wiki - gives me something to be motivated to work on it, like a workout app.
G500 is a great piece of machine, still works flawlessly.
@@adziak if it had a metal casing, I'd be happy, as it keeps breaking. Hey - I'm glad it'll help others!
Let me guess, did you break the hinge?
@@willa8720 Yes, but that's not the whole story as to why I'm writing here. The whole plastic exterior broke practically when I first got it (maybe a year in) including the plastic hinge covering and the hinge a little. But what completely broke it was the power cord not operating from being loosened too much from the plastic hinge being broken. It doesn't charge, so I took apart the entire computer and saw the internal screws got loose - that was the whole reason!
where's this repair wiki you're talking about? i have a T420. would be useful to have for later.
22:00 I can't believe that we come to a point in our history in which having one type of screw for everything is so rare that it must be praised :/
lmao
Is not that something that supposedly makes manufacturing cheaper?
older laptops and electronics are notorious for using different types of screws for the same product. It's actually just recent that electronics do this thing.
Being equiped with hands as you are you are particularly aware of this benefit.
I would love to see Framework (right to repair) and System76 (firmware and software freedom) come together. I am seriously considering purchasing one of these for my next laptop and installing Pop on it.
I could actually see the Framework laptops becoming more economical over the long term, especially when you're just adding more ram, replacing the GPU/CPU, or replacing the keyboard/battery where you would otherwise have to buy a whole new laptop.
As soon as the have versions with AMD parts it's becoming my go to upgrade path.
My cheap HP is somewhat repairable and upgradeable but it has nothing on the Framework laptop, and it'd be nice to have a laptop with a metal body instead of plastic finally
Replacing the CPU only existed on old thinkpads with rare Intel M cpus and replacing the GPU is just a dream. You would need to also replace the bus, vram and power delivery while not having a 10cm thick laptop.
@@theairaccumulator7144 Replacing CPus has existed until Thinkpads T440Ps, and that is Haswell generation.
So its doable, albeit impractical given the thickness people now want from their laptops
They just released a CPU upgrade for older devices
@@ajinkyakamat7053 And the new one has replaceable GPU modules
'I'm not an influencer, I'm a bum'.
That's why we love you.
Louis: "Screws that are kinda stuck in there."
Me: "Captive. Captive screws is what they are."
ONly found out about them this year. Had a crew that was kind of stuck in there. Then it wasn't...
Exactly. My M11x had captive screws on the main door.
The best kind. Makes dropping them somewhere unfortunate much less likely.
*screams at computer
Captive screws are great! Make service faster and easier less chance losing stuff
Don't forget, the premium price you pay up front will safe you lots of money later on, when you simply repair the device yourself at home, instead of sending it to a repair shop and paying lots of money (+ get a wiped device back).
Honestly wiping part is mostly understandable, if you ever worked on computers other than your own, you know how starting with a "clean slate" to diagnose issues feel like.
@@mineborders Yes. I have. And I always imaged the disk to an external drive first, before wiping.
Companies could offer that. With a fee, but they could at least offer it.
@@TheKeule33 Yeah, I agree, but sometimes copying can fail, get corrupted, etc, which is why most companies probably don't want to mess with data.
Even if it doesn't, just supporting the idea is a good enough reason.
TempleOS:
"The USB dongles glow in the dark"
xD
The Holiness
Glorious
I want a follow-up on how her new OS is treating her.
@@Kevin-jb2pv same
I'd love to see this with physical switches for wi-fi, BT, mic and camera. This is such a great device as is!
Mic and camera do have physical switches already. I agree the others would be worth adding.
@@phillee2814 I stand corrected, that's fantastic! I definitely missed that. I can't think of another device on the market on this level. I'm genuinely happy this exists!
Not looking things up before streaming is part of the charm :) I love how raw the experience is
You took the most idiotic approach and started without reading the manual - just like any ordinary user such as myself would. Great video, thank you for this realistic review! 😂
Men don't read manuals. 😎
Working as a part time laptop technician, I've learned to look for service manuals first. It saves me some time and gives me peace of mind knowing I'm going through the process correctly :)
Manufacturers who refuse to publish service manuals should go to hell. HP, Lenovo and Dell are fine, their manuals are readily available and perfectly usable. Asus, Toshiba, Samsung and all others are on my shit list.
I don't think we have ever heard Louis this excited when reviewing a product. Nice job Framework. I asked them if they would make a heavy duty version, like the old Tough Books, I'm an auto mechanic and I would love to have a heavy duty Framework laptop that I use to diagnose cars.
Love how the Framework team was confident enough to send Louis a laptop.
#SkematicsOrDie
I have high hopes for this little guy. He's going to revolutionize the market. Even for the lay-user, being able to swap out ports or even stick on another hard drive, will be invaluable in a world of dongles. And if/when a 13" version comes out, and when my beloved Dell XPS dies, I'll be taking a very hard look at this. Best of luck to all the guys at Framework.
Absolutely love this video, and I love this laptop. This is such a well engineered solution that actually feels like it's intended to be sold to me, rather than tricking me into buying a new laptop every year or two.
Excactly
Ram doesn't work? Buy a new one for 50€ and put it in
Hafing a spicy pillow ? Buy a new Batterie
Need more space? buy a bigger ssd
It feels weel ingenered and i love it
"It's a magnetic bezel!"
Holy shit, it's been a long time since I've felt this turned on by tech. That is sexy as hell!
I like this laptop. By-the-way Louis, your only-one-screwdriver-needed even has a spudger on the other end so you didn't need to use the blue one :-P
@@AlexBarbu Thank you for clearing that out.
@@AlexBarbu The other end of the BIT is a Phillips, but the handle is a spudger.
Thank you for showcasing this Louis! Can't wait to see it with an OS on it.
Now excuse me while I go replace my Lenovo P50's keyboard I spilled something into..
Hopefully Linux. (Gnu/Linux for pedants)
@@superslimanoniem4712 Ah yes, the same pedants who imagine there might be some user base for Debian GNU/kFreeBSD. LOL
@@superslimanoniem4712 If he does have time to further review it, I hope he does some linux variant and windows tbh. It'd be nice to see how both work since I (like many people) am stuck on windows for work.
Great review and I genuinely hope Framework would pick up steam in their business.
Having said that, I also take it with a grain of salt that they succeed, this whole concept seems familiar (The project Ara modular phone from several years back). The people behind the original idea made us dream about the possibilities of a modular phone BUT the big boys for Alphabet stepped in, bought the rights and the name and then basically killed it.
I'm getting a different configurator here although I chose DIY which I think cuts the price due to reduced labour costs on their end. As an enthusiast power user I'd like to build it myself anyway.
Config:
i5-1135G7 (8M cache, 4.2GHz max clock, 4C/8T)
Intel Wi-Fi 6E AX210
1TB WD Black SN750 NVMe
No OS (i.e DIY it)
16GB (2x8GB) DDR4-3200
$1,073 + $100 pre-order deposit
Then you can mix and match port expansion cards
HDMI 2.0b
Micro SD
DisplayPort 1.4
• $19/each
USB-A 3.2 Gen 2
USB-C - w/ 20V5A charging + DisplayPort Alt Mide
• $9/each
250GB expansion card 1000MB/s - 375MB/s read/write respectively
• $69
1TB expansion card 1000MB/s - 1000MB/s read/write respectively
• $149
You'll want to add 4 of these ideally to cover all slots.
Let's say you want 2xUSBs
One of the video outs
A microSD card reader
You're looking at $1129 + pre-order deposit
Given its USP and other cool features I don't think this is a bad price.
Might'nt be such a bad rub vs your 2017 ThinkPad Louis.
I've used Ventoy to demo several Linux distributions, and it works flawlessly! Very easy to use, little to no fiddling around required, and it's even compatible with Secure Boot.
I found your channel while searching for ts100 reviews. I'm glad you did a review on this. Thanks for everthing.
TS100... is that the new Terminator???
@@pee-buddy Soldinator
I remember when ThinkPads and even consumer Toshiba laptops had EXTERNAL removable batteries, guess we should be lucky to at least get this level of user replaceable or swappable battery
Some are if i remember correctly still replacable,but are no longer on the outside
cx
Tough books still have swappable batteries but start at $3k
Most laptop still have replaceable battery, it's the matter of the source of the battery, it's almost impossible to find good quality battery
@@Sam-tb9xu Tough Books are impressive, but yeah, the swappable batteries (plural) are so that off grid power can be supplied while doing a battery replacement in situ. An unusual design, but I understand why they offer it.
I mostly lament that Panasonic does not offer its Japanese model laptops in the USA. Unlike the Toughbook models, some weigh around 2lbs and have BluRay burners, so they are thin & light, and very versatile.
39:12 "no they're the same." You can see in this frame one stick has 8 chips per side while the other has only 4. There was recent coverage of this issue concerning greater memory density resulting in fewer chips necessary to achieve the same capacity on a stick, which can impact performance as the memory controller has to divide the same capacity against fewer chips. There's also the chance that these two sticks run different timings considering the generational difference in sourced parts. It's unfortunate crucial doesn't do a better job labeling their memory, given that a casual observance results in missing these details.
I'd love to see bigger, workstation-tier models with more RAM slots and modular GPUs with official cross-generation upgradability. GPU modules could be MXM, DGFF or whatever HP is using on the Zbook 17 Fury G8.
inb4 being able to run a complex render on blender with framework laptop
There was a time you could more readily buy MXM modules... but not so much any more. I suppose, theoretically if a OEM had a chip with all the compatible MXM modules stuffed into - it would be a breeze for plug and play. Sure, it would increase the B.O.M by a few cents but it would be worth it in the long run in terms of extensibility and upgradability. As users could simply update that chip with a driver update or similiar process. By doing this, we avoid having to mess around with the BIOS / UEFI not to mention custom bios and uefi updates.
@@earthtaurus5515 What I don't understand is what makes "X" laptop incompatible with "Z" MXM GPU. Is it always a deliberate limitation put in place by the manufacturer in order to avoid having people upgrade undefinitely? When I first learned about MXM GPUs I thought they would be like what desktop PCs have been doing for ages now. Too bad most of the time a laptop's GPU can only be upgraded within certain "supported" models which are most often limited to a specific generation or architecture. Of course there are vbios and .inf file tricks for making "unsupported" models work but that shouldn't be the norm IMO.
PD: From what I've seen on the internet, the HP Elitebook 8770W is probably one of the easiest to upgrade in this regard. I've seen it running a GTX1070 (pascal), which is two generations newer than then officially supported models (Quadro K series, Kepler).
@@YeOldeKamikaze It's down to a few things 1) The port for the MXM module - which the notches on the connector, the number of pins a module has on the connector.
2)The size of module, this because of the tight spaces inside a laptop chasis.
3)Support inside the BIOS/UEFI for plug and play - that's not much of an issue these days (since laptops have their own igpus, so installing drivers can be done at O/S level) but still needs to be considered in terms of ease of use, extensibility and repairability - which is why a dedicated chip for MXM modules is better.
As users are not reliant on laptop OEMs updating the bios/uefi to support latest MXM modules. OEMs are notoriously bad when it comes to keeping laptop drivers and the bios updated.
4)I'm not entirely sure what happened with MXM and how the momentum was lost in creating a open standard for GPUs in laptops. As far as I can tell it fingers point to lost steam when Nvidia abandoned it and apparently Nvidia controls MXM-Sig as a subsidary... 🤷♂️🤷♂️
Modular gpus aren't possible because nvidia and amd restrict mobile gpus hard. You'll need to change how they work
21:06 I like how they put labels on every part. This definitely makes it easier for a non-technician to locate all the parts.
Terry Davis would be smiling in x64 heaven when Louis installs a TempleOS on Erika's laptop
X32
RIP to the smartest programmer to ever live
@@americanrice870 x64
I used to be obsessed with opening boxes while keeping them intact, then I started installing electric fixtures by hundreds a week and ended up doing it like Mr. Rossmann here! it feels so good sometimes to just open it clean but it kills me when it gets stuck so I just rip them apart now.
i usually open food packets without damaging it, i unfold it until it's just a sheet of laminated paper :P
Remember my uncle giving me his "broken" laptop, like ~8 years ago or something now, only had a bad HD, so I put in a cheap SSD, fixed. Offered it back, told him it only cost like $40 to fix and will work 10x better than before now with a stable windows 7 bloatware free setup as well, but he already had bought a new one and told me to keep it lol...
Still using it today, mostly just for browsing and movie watching, sometimes word processing and other random stuff just about any device can do. Just recently bought a replacement battery for ~$18, which I was very surprised to see readily available for cheap. So, I can relate to waiting for it to basically turn to dust before getting a new one haha...
My mom had an old hp compaq laptop that was extremely repairable very similar to this. Everything had a sticker with the part number and all of the main stuff that you would replace even down to the wifi card was accessable via the back of the laptop. All of the ports were on ribbon cables as well. The cpu was even socketable. Its a shame laptops arent like this anymore.
"it's ugly and big and blocky"
The same idiots who say this and prefer disposable e-waste products that have a two year life cycle say we need to save the planet by not burning any type of fuel.
"Can you install my favorite operating system?"
"TempleOS?"
Oh my GOD, I'm dying!! XD
Made my first appearance in a Rossmann stream at 42:10 :). I'm really wishing this company huge success. I've put in a pre-order that will ship out in October and I couldn't be more excited!
Saw the design of this thing over a month ago and immediately preordered one. It was the thoughtfulness of the design that won me over. So many companies pay lipservice to the concept of good design, but when an engineer spends the time to really think about this stuff, it shows, that's hard to fake.
I'm missing a few things from Framework:
- trackpoint
- ryzen version, hopefully with many cores to compile those gentoo packages quickly
- A Logitech Unifying receiver + USB-A port module would be nice, external mouse+keyboard without using up a USB slot.
- wired ethernet option
- a touchscreen option would be nice
Despite all this, I will consider it if I need to buy a laptop. I want them to succeed.
- I think Lenovo owns the rights for trackpoint. But I'm not sure on that
- Go visit their forum. They want to start working on Ryzen version
- They are working on a hidden USB Port module
- also 1G ethernet port
I think we need to split the repair wiki into software and hardware. There's so much in software to fix if it breaks and with open source - it'll be a huge wealth of info.
That is very interessting concept!
@@darekmistrz4364 Thanks. I saw that it is split up into that, but we're going to need to grow the software section into teaching people how to navigate software as well. Once there's enough info in software - I hope for this separation.
Software and hardware do need a split, but firmware embeds to hardware that they can't just 'physically design', like a BIOS ROM... Which muddles things
If they made their laptop with Ryzen processors, I would have bought one. I hope these guys get to continue.
Also it is to small for me, I would go for 15.6"
This is probably only company which could potentially have a trackpad with 3 dedicated buttons and surfice with tackle feedback different to the case. I hate flimsy TouchPads. Also Gigantic touchpads are annoying. Just swiping for ages, some even on max speed.
I think it was because of thunderbolt, thats an Intel thing only, for now. They couldn't do modular hdmi or display ports through basic usb-c, because of the latency without thunderbolt. They are trying to get better stuff, also gpu support for later.
Thats what I heard anyways.
@@kycrush8657 AMD motherboards have had thunderbolt support for years, albeit a slower protocol if I recall correctly
I remember when you kinda bashed them and we all just dismissed it, glad they've made a comeback and rectified issues as far as schematics and so on
There are no schematics.
@@reelrecaps7927 repair shops can request schematic. Watch the video
@@reelrecaps7927 Schematics are a problem because Framework doesn't make the Motherboards. So it's the motherboard manufacturer that has the final say in releasing them. But as said in the video, independent repair shops can get them.
@@RACGump Once first repair shop gets their hands on the schematic, everyone will. That said, They should've made sure the schematic issue is covered in their deal with the manufacturer.
@@martincerny3294 I don't think a client (Framework in this case) has the power to negotiate this way with the manufacturer
Already ordered mine for the october shipment. so excited!;
Me too!
Me three!
@32:00 Most of the circuitry is based off of diode transistors operating in switch mode and those are directional in reference to bias voltage and common. If you swap the leads you could risk running a diode into reverse breakdown. Then, BANG. A nice black spot where you had a transistor :)
I have a Batch 3 laptop coming from them next month! I could use a laptop for school but because I have a desktop, I don't need need one. It would be convenient, so I have looked several times and never once been satisfied about what my options are for the cost. I have a Batch 3 coming in October and I am sooo excited about it! The cost is quite reasonable, and finally I could convince myself of buying one.
Lol put the install on the extra USB storage that came with it
My desktop is under my desk, and the USB-C port is in the back of the computer. There is no USB-C port on the front of my computer. So, this would've required kneeling down and going under my desk to the back of my computer....... at midnight....
I'm a brave man, but I'm not superman.
@@rossmanngroup I can relate. 😂😂
@@rossmanngroup 🤦🤦
holy shit you're right you could just slap each OS you need on a different expansion card.
@@mojolotz But why though? :D
As a programmer, I use the 10 key often, so the numpad is essential for me on any computer.
any reason you wouldn't settle for a usb one?
@@Elrog3 Eeewww
Same. But also the home, end, pg dn, pg up keys
@@Elrog3 Because they get moved all over the desk since they're so small and light.
When one considers this is a "first product" from a "new company" and that is hits •so many• of the high points of what I would like to see in MY LAPTOP. (If only it would run MacOS, it would be on my list.)
To be fair the founders are from existing laptop manufacturers, so it's not like they have zero experience.
@@morosis82, while that is true, they are still building a laptop based on a design philosophy that has not been tried before. I wish them well.
do a MacOS virtual box with the framework or hackintosh it.
@@Tom_Losh this is true. I wish them so well I'm going to buy one, even though I don't technically need it (though my other portable is pretty old).
@@Tom_Losh It has been tried plenty, just not in decades...
what an amazing machine. i wish they built one for gaming+ graphic's design
The Lenovo thinkpad E580, 585, 595 and E15s I know also have the screws that don’t fall out and it’s awesome. I like the whole, not reading the manual. It helps show how intuitive it is.
That style of fastener is called a captive fastener, or more specifically in this case captive screw. I am really really digging this piece of gear, I really want one now, I just wish it was all black.
ngl, this is amazing. There should be more companies that respect their clientele enough to make laptops that modular. No glue in sight, everything nicely screwed together, Phoneblok like modular ports, omg.. I'm so happy this exists!
You mean the dude who had a great idea, but let Google invest in his idea & eventually scrap it? He chose that money over innovation.
@@bbbbbbb51 Google wasn't supposed to shelf the idea, but yeah, that's what happened..
This was presented to me as if it was live three days after it aired. WTF.
This stream is from before a dozen-or-so hours, isn't it?
If framework continues to support their form factors with easy board swaps for upgraded hardware I'm 100% getting one of these. The design is excellent as a piece for Right to Repair movement and very consumer friendly. The only other thing I can ask of Framework is to try and give us unlocked instead of the usual lockdown firmware present on most laptops but I get that they might not have a choice since the firmware market for laptops and desktops is basically just an oligopoly
My only two gripes so far is the relatively small amount of I/O, and the lack of a rj45 port. That being said, there are multi-usb and ethernet expansion cards in the works currently, and I’m really excited to see what’s in store for the future
Sweet
4 mo late, but having upwards of 4 USB4 ports feels like a lot of IO, considering the options for docks
the only thing prevented me from buying it is, that only intel is avaible and there is no dedicated video card(an entry level 1650ti would do the trick)...otherwise very impressing, I wish Framework to be successful
This. I would wait for a thicker version with better cooling, Ryzen, and a dedicated GPU.
same , i will be happy with even dedicated midrange gpu .
THIS IS THE BEST PRODUCT REVIEW I HAVE EVER SEEN ON RUclips.
If I was a hardware company, I would PAY for this kind of content. Not just give you the hardware, I would pay you heftly.
The problem is that most companies make garbage products and use the whoring "influencers" for biased hyped reviews.
Honest reviewers rarely get to be in the giveaways ---- and honest companies are just...rare.. 😒
RIP Terry Davis
Thank you Erika for making sure Louis got the right things on camera for review!
I plan to buy one, my current non-gaming laptop works but will be replaced once it craps out with this. Current laptop is 5 years old or so. I like and love the repair-ablity of this. Hope they pair with Micro Center to make islt easier to buy and gets part for repair.
TIL Louis wears underwear with half a ball hanging out and a vertical brown fissure in the back.
Not true! He doesn't have a dry asshole, he has a clean and dry asshole! (old video reference btw)
Hahaha at half a ball hanging out 🤣
Definitely not a brown fissure though, as Louis has told us in the past he washes his asshole rather than drying it.
Can't wait for the "lous rossman repairability seal of approval" stickers on laptop boxes
I love the concept and see myself consider buying this when changing laptops just as a vote of confidence in the company.
I do however think they pushed to hard to the "lego" side of things and being able to just pull the screen border or it falling from bumping the laptop is a bad thing as i want once I'm not trying to take it appart not to fall apart in my hands on its own
How secure is the magnetic bezel? I would personally prefer at least a few clips so it doesn't come loose and get broken in a bag or something. As long as they are sturdy and don't break instantly as many OEM bezels do.
Given the effort put into this, I trust the bezels to stay put, and even if it does occasionally slip I think that's a fair trade
I'd think they'd be using components' magnetic properties to keep the effect for as long as the device lives, so if it would get apart, so would be your device's ability to work
I suspect the modular ports, make it cheaper to offer multiple configurations.
Since it also makes repairability easier, it's a win win.
I've been impatiently waiting for this to be available in the UK, would be very happy to support this.
I do wish the right shift was smaller so that the up and down keys could be bigger though.
Yeah, but have you tried modern Linux though? I really think it's come a long way (in recent years), Manjaro with kde is great
Konqi!
@@wesbryie No UK ISO layout isn't great though.
Came back after the stream just to say I support what this company is doing and hope it goes well for them. If possible I would like to order one soon and if you support customer choice and repairability then please consider them as well so maybe they can get to that point Louis was talking about with more skus and options. GL Framework!
Amen brother!
You're not an influencer, you're an angry man who owns a shop that fixes bigger company's mistakes
Hi Louis, the captured screws on the chassis is something Dell has been doing for several years now. Of all the mass-produced laptops, the Dell Latitude laptops are the easiest to work on for me as a tech.