@@Fastfitnesstips I like to enter my own data... but where do i find that mask to enter data? That was my question. I tried to google "FFT Rear Derailleur Power Loss Estimator" but nothing found. Where do I find it? Please offer me a LINK
Well explained. Another factor to consider for those of us who do our own maintenance: Even though high-quality ceramic bearings can last longer than high-quality steel bearings, the ceramic bearings have a shorter service interval because they do not handle dirt as well. This is partly because the races are usually steel and when dirt gets into the bearing, the harder ceramic balls will score the softer steel races. This problem is less with steel-on-steel bearings. Because ceramic-on-steel is subject to greater damage from contamination, some manufacturers who supply ceramic bearings with their drivetrain components (like SRAM Red bottom brackets and Red rear derailleur jockey wheels) recommend that you clean and regrease the bearings every time the bike is ridden in the rain. And there's one more factor that many fail to consider: weather seals. The better the bearing is weather sealed, the higher its friction. The super low friction of a ceramic bearing can be quickly undone with good weather seals. This is why choosing bearings is often a choice between trade-offs. You can get the lowest friction with ceramic bearings, ultra-thin oil and no weather seals. But the environment of your route needs to be very clean and dry. As soon as you hit sandy, dirty or muddy road conditions and any kind of rain, the friction of your bearings will quickly rise and you will have wasted the money and effort to achieve such low friction. Because of this, the best application for these kinds of marginal gains is indoor racing and time trials in fair weather on clean roads.
Thanks for this myth buster here for ceramic jockey wheel pulley systems. I'll just continue to work on my aero position and flexibility of producing power in that position. thanks again.
POINT TO MORE FULLY CONSIDER: You mentioned Alberto Contador's mechanic taking out the factory grease in his pulley wheels and replacing with a lighter oil. I guarantee that CeramicSpeed tests are against competitor wheels with factory grease. I've been doing what Contador's mechanic does with my Sram "Blackbox" Ceramic pulley wheel bearings and, like ceramic speed, they now will spin forever (I take out factory grease and replace with low friction oil). I do clean and re-oil the pulley wheels every 500-700 miles (depending on conditions), but they've (SRAM"'blackbox" ceramic pulley bearings) lasted me 2 years without any perceivable performance loss. I would love to see a segment testing this on other brands to see the performance gains we can get without breaking the bank when it comes to the bearings we have (or minimal upgrades to SRAM or Shimano ceramic bearings). Thanks for all your amazing content!!
I'm going back to regular stocked pulleys. My experience is that OSPWs catch debris (twigs, leaves) for those occasion off road or from road debris. Past 6 months of running OSPW, I've had numerous things getting caught in my drivetrain (never experienced this in 20yrs) and two snapped off derailleur hangers from the debris getting caught in OSPW system. Just my experience, but a snapped off derailleur hanger leaves you stranded.
Nice one! I'd be interested in diving into the real savings on bottom bracket and hub bearings. I understand while they might not be spinning as fast as the RD, they are more load bearing, so there might be a higher wattage loss there that could potentially be minimized.
And this is why I bought Campagnolo Bullet 50s without springing for the USB or Ultras instead of Boras. 500km on them already and spent the extra money at Hooters. Big smiles all around :)
Well stated. I guess $500 to save 1 watt makes it just as expensive as the new Mavic shoes that are $1000 and save 2 watts. Between those two products you could save 3 watts and pay more than what most people pay for an actual bike 🙄
Epic MTB Trails Pretty sure you could buy some serious drugs for 500$ that are gonna give you a lot more than 2.4 watts. More like 50 watts if you get on a serious drug program.
daAnder71 totally agree. Honestly companies like this just prey on some people's snob factor. If you put a high enough price tag on anything there will be enough idiots that buy it solely because it's expensive, and to those idiots a high price creates the illusion of value, quality, or performance. I also agree with the sentiment of just putting that $500 elsewhere. Even if you have nice wheels, if you're looking to burn $500 sure you could spend it on a bunch of the cheaper stuff to shave enough weight to gain the minimal, if any, gains you'd see from using giant $5-650+ pulleys. At least in my case I could.
When I looked in to oversized derailleur pulleys I figured that their obnoxiously huge size would cause at-least a watt or 2 of wind drag, striking out any marginal gains in drivetrain efficiency. Thanks for your videos! You save a lot of people a lot of cash :)
In the world of cycling where 100g of weight in a frame costs thausands of dollars, a product that potentially saves a watt or more of parasitic loss is more than welcome.
Quite true Scott. The aero losses have been measured at around 1 watt at 40kph...so subtract that from the efficiency savings (see comment by cyclefacts)
What did he "prove" exactly? He's not providing any data to prove or disprove anything. Just like the rest of us, he's only postulating and doing his own (non scientific) speculation about what he thinks is happening.
I Clean the chain really often, oil with T-9, and you'll get pretty close. For $500, you can afford to change the pulley wheels periodically too. I like the CeramicSpeed concept, and when the price comes down to about $75, I'll be jumping on the bandwagon. Till then I'm afraid I'll be cleaning my drivetrain.
So buy a KMC DLC Chain lube it with Wax and save just 420$ and have a loss of 0.5W but no issue at rain and 3 times longer a super clean Chain. but the 420$ in a better Front wheel and save over 10w.
There have been very similar arguments coming from high end baitcaster fishing reel tuners for years. The result is selling/marketing extremely high dollar ceramic bearing upgrades, reel parts, and aftermarket ported line spools with larger internal diameters. The reality is though that there are so many other factors that it generally doens't make a huge difference. And exactly like your video showed, the reel tuners often show how long a reel will spin and freespool after the upgrades, and they also run bearings DRY as you said these guys do. A very good reel, is very good right out of the box, any improvements will be extremely marginal at best with low returns per dollar.
I see you did alot of research on this matter and I appreciated your input re the DA pulley wheels actually got worse. I got one of those digirit pulley wheel system on my etap but I couldn't notice any difference from stock. I have got rid of the writing on it with actone however, I think it looks better now. Keep up the good work, just subscribed to your channel.
My SRAM Red rear derailleur had holes drilled wrong for the pulleys. My mechanic could not adjust out the stuttering that happened intermittently. The CeramicSpeed, with it's 3way adjustability took the stuttering out. Now it shifts better than I could imagined, killing any desire in me to go to an electronic system, which saved me $1500-2000 smackaronis. I think it was worth it.
Try 'Slick 50' in your normal bearings after exposing and cleaning the balls and race. Slick 50 is a Teflon based hydrophobic automotive oil additive, but it works amazingly alone on high stress bearings as pulleys.
Good video that helps to expose the 'ceramic bearings for bikes' myth. In any case the differences being talked about for jockey wheels are so tiny as to be almost immeasurable. And bigger cage = more drag. In the light of this, though, don't you think your 'Save 37W with a clean, straight chain' was overdoing it a bit?!
Hi Andrew, thanks for the positive constructive feedback. Regarding the previous chain video I don't think 37W is outside of the high end of savings that can be made against a fully (hopelessly) unoptimised chain. I thought you would know by now that these savings are dependent on lots of factors all of which cannot be known to FFT. This is why we put out a calculator (aka *coughs* estimator this time). Did you have a look? The highest watt savings are going to be with the more powerful riders (high speed high watts) with lossy systems. I did not claim 37w is the average saving but then not to quote the high end of savings would be odd. FFT is not promising anyone anything because I have no way of knowing their bike nor what they intend to purchase, I am providing information....which may be known or unknown to the audience. So the bottom line for your provocative comment (which btw I don't mind at all as I know we are adults treating each other with respect) is that do you have data that my facts are wrong in relation to my chain video? Or do you want to me make a chain loss estimator? Or do you think we should do more lab tests before going public......if so you are much more qualified than me!
I just think that some of the elements in that chain video were overstated. Finding and using data off the internet is interesting, but you're putting a lot of faith in it. I am an engineer, but common sense plays a big part in telling you that ceramic bearings are really not going to save you anything significant, and that a different chain will not give you 8W or whatever it was. Common sense also tells you that high end cyclists work very hard for a 10W FTP gain, and that even just a 15W gain from 'chain optimisation' is not realistic, as that cyclist's results would suddenly leap. I realize that '37W' makes for a better headline than '5W', but realistically, for the vast majority of cyclists out there, the gains to be had are very small. Just keep your chain reasonably clean and lubed and replace it when it's worn out, basically.
I agree with the comments above, 15W from chain optimisation is unrealistic. You don't appear to have any hard data to back up your statements but have convinced a vast number of the viewing public that everything you come out with is true. All of your data is in the public domain and not your own testing. As a professional engineer, this strategy is questionable.
Hi Hambini. It is not a question of convincing anyone of anything we are providing data interpretation and data interpretation tools. What did you think of our pulley loss estimator model? ps. I was not aware you held an oinion that we can only talk on youtube about topics concerning our own generated data. On this basis youtube is going to be pretty empty.
I just replaced the wheels and I felt the difference. So I bought on Merlins cycle the whole Ceramic speed for OSPW and I CAN NOT complain. I paid 350 dollars.
I believe that the ceramic speed rear derailleurs with the enlarged pully wheels are a good pice of equipment. But at a price tag of roughly 500,- EUR / USD this will definitely be the very last upgrade I consider. Even if its performance meets my expectations we're still just talking about 1 watt for 250,- EUR or so. That's bloody expensive!
What about us mere mortals with limited budgets? Remove the seals from steel bearings and reduce the fill rate to 25% using light oil, not grease. What is it? You say you wear out your bearings fast this way? So? Considering you have to service your ceramic bearings frequently to maintain performance, its more cost and time efficient to just buy medium price steal cartridges, strip them off original grease and seals and replace them periodically.
Just keep your drive train clean, and train hard. No amount of super slippery bearings is going to make you into a world class athlete. Peter Sagan could out sprint me on a BMX.
Debunking that ceramic nonsense deserves a sub at least. Ceramic is good in machine bearings with RPMs going into tens to hundreds of thousands [because of heat]. Ceramic elements other then bearings just make your bike more expensive and less sturdy for marginal weight gains.
imagine someone once counts all the manufacturers' claims and puts them together on one bike... frame, clothes, shoes, helmet, drivetrain, wheels, tires, etc... could easily "save" you more than hundred virtual watts
Ceramic Speed, it's their way of marketing and over hyping it up. Unless you are a racing professional, you will want to do anything to gain an advantage over your rivals. But for the rest of us mere mortals, this marginal gain just ain't worth the money. This video is great, 2 thumbs up.
good video, well explanation! I think in practice the most important thing is what you say at 11'25" ff, the grease is extremely important factor, and that can turn the best bearing in the laboratory into a very poor one on the road and vice versa, because the best bearing with some dirt in it is by far worse than a midclass bearing with heavy but clean grease. May be that is the reason for the high W with Campa and new Dura Ace jockey wheels? Campus grease is very chewy (if you clean Campa jockey wheels and put just oil in the bearings, they run as almost as the Ceramic Speeds in the video), but it is a great barrier against dirt, and may be Shimano has changed the grease for the new DA (cause I can't imagine they have downgraded the wheels...)?
I can experience several lost watts, through a dirty, crusty, dry rear derailleur that I've neglected for a year. If I were to swap out to one of these, I suspect I'd clean and lube everything else at the same time, and sure, guess what I'd gain? I gave up on Aftermkt ball bear pulleys decades ago, after I found them to get clogged worse than every bushing pulley I ever used. Cutout lightening holes also just get full of greasy road dirt as well.
I use a 15 tooth ceramic bearing pulley, the company is not ceramic speed but another brand name called Fouriers; I think they are great and I felt a difference. The difference is not that much but surely I could feel the chain less tensed. I really think the difference is more than 1 watts. It's jus my opinion.
Another point to mention is the enormous amount of extra noise these large alloy pulley systems make over the smaller plastic types used by Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo. This to me would negate any possible savings in power (if there were any) as the extra noise produced is very fatiguing...
Graham Tricker That is a very interesting point Graham Tricker because extra noise is usually a sign of wasted energy. However I love a quiet bike too that why I like the SRAM RED 1190 cassette not necessarily because of the weight.
Buy a 1170 once (I don't know if it applies to the 1190, too), and when you need to replace it, go for the 1130 and just swap the spacers and lockring. Voila, you upgraded your 1130 to a 1170.
Talk about the point of diminishing returns! It's all too distracting, I ride for fun these days, and so I don't drive a car when I don't need to which has turned out to be around 21 years now. So screw watts, how much smog have I saved the Earth from?
Ultegra bearings are better than super record despite super record costing 3x as much? and only weighing 400-500 grams less? god damn. How does campag manage to sell anything above chorus? Some people just have too much money.
Great vid by these guys. I have been a bike mechanic for 21 years and i have fornd there are better and much more affordable ways to get less drag from your bearings than buying ceramic bearings and buying into the BS of ceramic bearings.
I installed my Ceramic Speed bottom bracket, a new YBN chain and an OSPWS and I can tell you for sure it all adds up to free watts. I have zero resistance in my drive train, none. I also fitted my race wheels, I hand built them, with special coated ceramic bearings in the hubs. I tested all of the changes against my tried and true benchmark testing course(s). One of my courses is 14 miles and I saved 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Additionally, no matter where I ride my bike, I am consistently able to use two harder gears and am moving faster. I'm happy I live in a time when I can enjoy the amazing technology that is fun, exciting and very, very fast. My bike/drive train are always spotless.
Are you really trying to tell us that you went from doing a 22km course in, say, 37.7 minutes (35km/h) to 31.4 minutes (42km/h)?? And all down to some ceramic bearings and a new chain? Sorry but that's just delusional. Assuming a flat course, that's going from 210watts to 345watts. A 135W difference....no way.
I remain baffled that there's a perceived benefit to 15T pulley wheels when cassette cogs have shrunk to 11T. The cassette cog has far greater load (therefore more friction) than pulley wheels. Has anyone done the math on the watts penalty of adding a link or two to the chain to accommodate the wagon wheel size pulleys?
Grease = drag = less power, this is why Ceramic Bearings seem to run more freely. if you remove the grease and less friction on the bearing seals you will save power
No grease left in my ultegra pulley wheel. Spins better than Alistair Campbell on a carousel. I just pop a bit of Teflon dry lube on it after every wash. Eventually it will die, and I shall replace it with the new set I have in my spares drawer that cost £15.
I think if you’re buying this stuff simply to be faster on a Sunday coffee ride, then it’s worth looking in the mirror. The best reward for being faster on a Sunday morning comes when it’s earned through riding more and training smarter :)
I get it, doesn't look like it would save watts. But, I bought a SRAM Red derailleur new on ebay, gears would grind on occasion, mechanic thought it was pulleys, replaced pulleys, no change, my mechanic said CeramicSpeed oversized wheels have 3 different adjustment angles that can be made and we were able to adjust out the clash of gears. With the CeramicSpeed I am faster, maybe mental, but when I push my bike through say stops, the bike gets noticed, especially by mechanics comment on my SHIV, so I'm happy. Note, all other comparable big wheel pulley systems he mentions are non adjustable if you derailleur is off like mine. And it has to be serviced every 6 mos like he says, but we'll worth it in my application.
@@johndef5075 Stock derailleur pulleys only have one angle of adjustment, CeramicSpeed has 3, was able to correct the weird angle. It was bought on Ebay, so don't know how to get mfg to fix it.
isn't it about time that flexibility is engineered in to rear derailleurs i.e. so that jockey wheels point along the chain. And maybe the teeth on the front chain ring could have teeth that swivel on a needle bearing. Or have a solenoid controlled rear cassette that moves itself into the correct position. And a flame thrower on the back is essential.
What you don't talk about is whether potential increases from aero-drag due to a bigger cage and jockey wheels offsets any frictional losses. As a mountainbiker I care not, but as an engineer, I'm curious.
at 00:41 there is some green text at the bottom of the screen that says something about "Editor: how do you know they are...." but it is not readable due to the color of the text on the dark background. Can the makers of this video please clarify what that text says?
The editor's comment is regarding "selling to pro teams" we don't know if anything is being sold to pro teams vs giving away products to pro team in return for product placement; product placement deals are pretty common practice in sport and may not be disclosed by the manufacturer.
Im just wondering if you can take the cheaper ones and replace the actual bearings with bearings from another industry. like RC Cars and skateboards. Some skateboard riders have used ceramic bearings for decades. Also, when you picture RC Cars, please dont picture the toys you get from the supermarket. Rather, picture a almost 4kg car made from high quality alloys and carbon fiber worth approx $3000. These guys use Ceramic bearings sometimes too, esp in nitro engines. but there is very little difference in the wheel bearings, but arguably more benifit in the engines. In the picture, the beaings casing seems to be pretty much industry standard. So long as the sizes are the same as other industry's. I say it would not hurt to try. you can get ceramic bearings for RC Cars for as little as $50. So it depends how many would be needed too. $500 for a set of beaings seems like a bit of an exploit to me. I highly recomend someone investogating the use of bearings from other industry's to chaive the same result as these guys have.
I think the engineer behind the product has some good ideas, but the real results come from testing, not estimating. I do like how he wants to use thick sprockets to hold and align the chain for best shifting, but doesn't want the drag involved. Good to see he is thinking with different ideas on how to solve the problem. Unfortunatly, it looks like his project is dead. I cannot contact him..
Without the ceramic bearing and wattage saving bullshit, large pulley with reasonable price (50~70 USD) is not bad, as it makes cleaning much easier. The small default cogs make it a little hard to clean, as the only way to clean them is to disassemble them from derailleur, while large pulley don't. Despite that, I see nothing else worthy.
In each system (large or small) the chain ends up making the same bends. So wouldn't the amount of friction in each bend end up equalling each other? Sure the smaller tooth increases the bend in the chain but the larger pully has more chain links that are bent to run the same path. Did I miss something that explains that?
but that chain bend happens only twice - when the chain enters the pull wheel and when it leaves the pull wheel; it does not matter how many teeth are in between those points, because no further bend does happen, the chain stays in the same configuration
You have tu do a test where you put your bike without ceramicspeed, an another with ceramicspeed.....knowing the power input and the power output you really can know how many watts are you saving
I enjoy the idea of comparing these different systems. However, by utilizing other sources of testing and mixing and matching data, you are introducing what you claim could potentially be biased data as your own objective data. I think a more objective method would be to set up a rig with a control system and measure other systems based on that control. Then you would need a large enough sample size to have reliable values. Or, formulate a calculation for a dynamic pulley system and find the friction losses in the system based on input power and response. This would be your proprietary excel sheet, but then you'd have to find friction losses from other parts of the system from literature or again test yourself. Ultimately, you rely on secondary sources, but for such relatively small watt gains you claim are actually saved precision and accuracy would require a high level of integrity.. Still it would be more informative and support your claim.
what will happens when dirt comes into ball bearings- it is in stream of dirt air . i use shimano dura ace from 1995. with ceramic slide bearings-it will last forever, does not rust and it is still as new but it has pay attention on torque when screw
Everything that comes out of ceramic speed seems to be from engineers that don't actually understand physics. Back at the University we used call those guys parrots. They were always looking over your shoulder for the answers and then would just repeat it back to someone else. They never actually understood what was being taught.
Silly marginal gain conundrum: I have dura ace 11t pulleys with 7000 dry kilometers in them. Teeth look in good shape. Would I find better watts/£ value buying some Tacx T4065 pulleys (0.1w faster than DA and fresh teeth, bearings etc.) at around £25 or buying some ceramic speed pulley oil for £5.50 for the dura ace ones I already have?
So my question would be; so does that mean every single item you showed is also bottom of the barrel including the most expensive wireless systems? I’m actually being serious 🤔
hi guys! i personally use it and 4 other racers/friends of mine also. and trust me it completely worth it . you'll feel a great difference on your first ride.
We all knew of course that these CS OSPW's are total BS. However, I'm running campag chorus 10sp and I'm getting slightly annoyed with the pulley wheels - really bad design. Does anyone know of a good after market option? It would be nice to save a watt, but what I really want is some decently sealed bearings there instead of a metal cylinder that gets corroded.
Great Video, I think Ben Powell's reply (somewhere, deep below) did more harm than good, because it has a huge contradiction: First he claims that "the frictional losses contributed to the rear derailleur system by bearings are lower in an OSPW than in a standard rear derailleur" due to the fact that the CS wheels rotate at a lower rate than the standard wheels. Then on his second reply he writes "The friction created by a rear derailleur is independent of rider output", which is totally laughable. Apparently Ben skipped Physics in college? No speed, no friction force. More rpms = more friction force. Sure the system's friction coefficient may be a constant, but the friction forces increase with speed and power, DUUUUH. Newton's Third law of motion. This obvious mistake (when it suits ceramic speed, of course) leads me to believe they are completely full of shit. Ben, If your products are so good, and you are honest about your claims, setup an independent lab test... otherwise, don't be surprised if everyone thinks your products are an overpriced SCAM.
Technically speaking he is right. Rotational acceleration which could be zero if the rider keeps the drive train moving at the same speed and pushing against air, rolling resistance and elevation changes resulting in different power measurements. But yeah, I dont think you get these for any real practical purposes unless you need every edge to win or want to change the RD cage for another reason.
@@sakizashi5421 He is not talking about rotational acceleration, he is talking about friction losses due to the different rotational speed of the wheels. This may be correct, but then he states that "The friction created by a rear derailleur is independent of rider output", which is wrong. On the first statement he says that the speed of the rider does affect the friction on the wheels, and on the second statement he contradicts himself saying it doesn't, using a technicality to confuse the reader by omitting the term FORCE.. yes.. the friction coefficient on the system doesn't change, but the friction force does, obviously.
I'd probably rate myself as a bling addict but I have serious doubt about a test of something like that being of benefit without the entire bike being tested in a wind tunnel. Better bearings that are machined to a higher tolerance -YEP, smoother "run in" and better lubed chain = YEP. Monster rear derailleur cage hanging out the back - UMMM, NO!
The market that is skilled enough to truly take advantage of gear like this is literally numbers in the low thousands, yet I constantly see people debating each other on the merits of dumping thousands of dollars into "high end" gear for almost zero performance gains. Lol
New ceramicspeed busted video here: ruclips.net/video/ryx5sDPkMUQ/видео.html ps pls join us on fft.tips/strava and fft.tips/patreon. thank you!
Is there a way to check out that pulley loss estimator from you ( 5:17 ) on my own, link? Or do I have to buy that?
@@cypherdelic if you enter your own data , your personal result will be shown. Email me if I am misunderstanding
@@Fastfitnesstips I like to enter my own data... but where do i find that mask to enter data? That was my question. I tried to google "FFT Rear Derailleur Power Loss Estimator" but nothing found. Where do I find it? Please offer me a LINK
@@cypherdelic either this one: fft.tips/ospw or this fft.tips/drivetrain are the ones you probably want
@@Fastfitnesstips I think i found it in the cycling apps, you called it there "drivetrain efficiency savings"
Well explained. Another factor to consider for those of us who do our own maintenance: Even though high-quality ceramic bearings can last longer than high-quality steel bearings, the ceramic bearings have a shorter service interval because they do not handle dirt as well. This is partly because the races are usually steel and when dirt gets into the bearing, the harder ceramic balls will score the softer steel races. This problem is less with steel-on-steel bearings. Because ceramic-on-steel is subject to greater damage from contamination, some manufacturers who supply ceramic bearings with their drivetrain components (like SRAM Red bottom brackets and Red rear derailleur jockey wheels) recommend that you clean and regrease the bearings every time the bike is ridden in the rain.
And there's one more factor that many fail to consider: weather seals. The better the bearing is weather sealed, the higher its friction. The super low friction of a ceramic bearing can be quickly undone with good weather seals. This is why choosing bearings is often a choice between trade-offs. You can get the lowest friction with ceramic bearings, ultra-thin oil and no weather seals. But the environment of your route needs to be very clean and dry. As soon as you hit sandy, dirty or muddy road conditions and any kind of rain, the friction of your bearings will quickly rise and you will have wasted the money and effort to achieve such low friction. Because of this, the best application for these kinds of marginal gains is indoor racing and time trials in fair weather on clean roads.
Yeah, but they make you look more pro, which is worth at least 25 watts in the coffee shop.
Lol, damn it gives 100 watt boost!
I disagree. I think they make people look dumb.
$500 for two pulleys and bearings = insanity
For that price you can get a High-End Single Speed Bike or Titanium frame set and build your own custom Gravel bike.
The last 5 seconds says it all really. Keep your drivetrain clean.
...and oiled
Thanks for this myth buster here for ceramic jockey wheel pulley systems. I'll just continue to work on my aero position and flexibility of producing power in that position. thanks again.
POINT TO MORE FULLY CONSIDER: You mentioned Alberto Contador's mechanic taking out the factory grease in his pulley wheels and replacing with a lighter oil. I guarantee that CeramicSpeed tests are against competitor wheels with factory grease. I've been doing what Contador's mechanic does with my Sram "Blackbox" Ceramic pulley wheel bearings and, like ceramic speed, they now will spin forever (I take out factory grease and replace with low friction oil). I do clean and re-oil the pulley wheels every 500-700 miles (depending on conditions), but they've (SRAM"'blackbox" ceramic pulley bearings) lasted me 2 years without any perceivable performance loss.
I would love to see a segment testing this on other brands to see the performance gains we can get without breaking the bank when it comes to the bearings we have (or minimal upgrades to SRAM or Shimano ceramic bearings).
Thanks for all your amazing content!!
I really apreciate your videos. Thank you for your work!
I'm going back to regular stocked pulleys. My experience is that OSPWs catch debris (twigs, leaves) for those occasion off road or from road debris. Past 6 months of running OSPW, I've had numerous things getting caught in my drivetrain (never experienced this in 20yrs) and two snapped off derailleur hangers from the debris getting caught in OSPW system. Just my experience, but a snapped off derailleur hanger leaves you stranded.
Nice one! I'd be interested in diving into the real savings on bottom bracket and hub bearings. I understand while they might not be spinning as fast as the RD, they are more load bearing, so there might be a higher wattage loss there that could potentially be minimized.
And this is why I bought Campagnolo Bullet 50s without springing for the USB or Ultras instead of Boras. 500km on them already and spent the extra money at Hooters. Big smiles all around :)
Well stated. I guess $500 to save 1 watt makes it just as expensive as the new Mavic shoes that are $1000 and save 2 watts. Between those two products you could save 3 watts and pay more than what most people pay for an actual bike 🙄
hi Rixter isnt the Mavic comete claiming 4.2 watts? anyone seen any data on this?
GCN had a video. I thought 2 watts, but could be wrong. 4 would make it a real value in the watt per dollar equation
We are going to do a feature on marginal gains very soon.
Researching regarding Ceramic Speed and look who i bumped into :D
You found me. DON'T bother with anything ceramic
Good video! Though, even if those pulleys did save you 2.4W, it's a joke for almost $500! A solid used road bike can be bought for around that money!
Epic MTB Trails Pretty sure you could buy some serious drugs for 500$ that are gonna give you a lot more than 2.4 watts. More like 50 watts if you get on a serious drug program.
Lance never rode to Stelvio!
daAnder71 totally agree. Honestly companies like this just prey on some people's snob factor. If you put a high enough price tag on anything there will be enough idiots that buy it solely because it's expensive, and to those idiots a high price creates the illusion of value, quality, or performance. I also agree with the sentiment of just putting that $500 elsewhere. Even if you have nice wheels, if you're looking to burn $500 sure you could spend it on a bunch of the cheaper stuff to shave enough weight to gain the minimal, if any, gains you'd see from using giant $5-650+ pulleys. At least in my case I could.
I think these gains are aimed at professional cyclists
I buy them to demonstrate I'm utterly clinically insane. Any saved wattage is a bonus
Actually I'm not that insane
When I looked in to oversized derailleur pulleys I figured that their obnoxiously huge size would cause at-least a watt or 2 of wind drag, striking out any marginal gains in drivetrain efficiency. Thanks for your videos! You save a lot of people a lot of cash :)
It looks cool. Perhaps it's easier on the chain?
In the world of cycling where 100g of weight in a frame costs thausands of dollars, a product that potentially saves a watt or more of parasitic loss is more than welcome.
Quite true Scott. The aero losses have been measured at around 1 watt at 40kph...so subtract that from the efficiency savings (see comment by cyclefacts)
I have been saying this for years... thank you for proving it. I tell my customers not to waste their money on this stuff
What did he "prove" exactly? He's not providing any data to prove or disprove anything. Just like the rest of us, he's only postulating and doing his own (non scientific) speculation about what he thinks is happening.
Their*
me too ! I'm gonna inform all my customers :D
if you really wanted to help. you would tell them to shop online instead.
Great video and channel. I can't believe I have not seen it earlier. Keep up the good work and those videos coming!
appreciate the feedback!
I Clean the chain really often, oil with T-9, and you'll get pretty close. For $500, you can afford to change the pulley wheels periodically too. I like the CeramicSpeed concept, and when the price comes down to about $75, I'll be jumping on the bandwagon. Till then I'm afraid I'll be cleaning my drivetrain.
So buy a KMC DLC Chain lube it with Wax and save just 420$ and have a loss of 0.5W but no issue at rain and 3 times longer a super clean Chain. but the 420$ in a better Front wheel and save over 10w.
There have been very similar arguments coming from high end baitcaster fishing reel tuners for years. The result is selling/marketing extremely high dollar ceramic bearing upgrades, reel parts, and aftermarket ported line spools with larger internal diameters. The reality is though that there are so many other factors that it generally doens't make a huge difference. And exactly like your video showed, the reel tuners often show how long a reel will spin and freespool after the upgrades, and they also run bearings DRY as you said these guys do. A very good reel, is very good right out of the box, any improvements will be extremely marginal at best with low returns per dollar.
Latex tubes save 5w per tyre according to new research. Good saving for about $10-20.
they look cool and thats all middle aged men with a lot of disposable income care about. the blingest bike when you show up at your weekly group ride
I see you did alot of research on this matter and I appreciated your input re the DA pulley wheels actually got worse. I got one of those digirit pulley wheel system on my etap but I couldn't notice any difference from stock. I have got rid of the writing on it with actone however, I think it looks better now. Keep up the good work, just subscribed to your channel.
True for many things, cannot trust manufacturer to test products and give objective view. thanks for the work.
My SRAM Red rear derailleur had holes drilled wrong for the pulleys. My mechanic could not adjust out the stuttering that happened intermittently. The CeramicSpeed, with it's 3way adjustability took the stuttering out. Now it shifts better than I could imagined, killing any desire in me to go to an electronic system, which saved me $1500-2000 smackaronis. I think it was worth it.
Nice resourceful and efficient story about making good use of this product. You can't go wrong when it's necessary. Enjoy the rides...
Ace mechanic couldnt get a new derailleur under warranty? Shouldnt even need a warranty actually for a defective part. Im calling bs....
Great video, as usual! Best drive-train advice my German Coach Klaus Wolfe gave me: Wax your chain and inspect it often.
Try 'Slick 50' in your normal bearings after exposing and cleaning the balls and race.
Slick 50 is a Teflon based hydrophobic automotive oil additive, but it works amazingly alone on high stress bearings as pulleys.
Good video that helps to expose the 'ceramic bearings for bikes' myth. In any case the differences being talked about for jockey wheels are so tiny as to be almost immeasurable. And bigger cage = more drag.
In the light of this, though, don't you think your 'Save 37W with a clean, straight chain' was overdoing it a bit?!
Hi Andrew, thanks for the positive constructive feedback. Regarding the previous chain video I don't think 37W is outside of the high end of savings that can be made against a fully (hopelessly) unoptimised chain. I thought you would know by now that these savings are dependent on lots of factors all of which cannot be known to FFT. This is why we put out a calculator (aka *coughs* estimator this time). Did you have a look? The highest watt savings are going to be with the more powerful riders (high speed high watts) with lossy systems. I did not claim 37w is the average saving but then not to quote the high end of savings would be odd. FFT is not promising anyone anything because I have no way of knowing their bike nor what they intend to purchase, I am providing information....which may be known or unknown to the audience. So the bottom line for your provocative comment (which btw I don't mind at all as I know we are adults treating each other with respect) is that do you have data that my facts are wrong in relation to my chain video? Or do you want to me make a chain loss estimator? Or do you think we should do more lab tests before going public......if so you are much more qualified than me!
I just think that some of the elements in that chain video were overstated. Finding and using data off the internet is interesting, but you're putting a lot of faith in it. I am an engineer, but common sense plays a big part in telling you that ceramic bearings are really not going to save you anything significant, and that a different chain will not give you 8W or whatever it was.
Common sense also tells you that high end cyclists work very hard for a 10W FTP gain, and that even just a 15W gain from 'chain optimisation' is not realistic, as that cyclist's results would suddenly leap.
I realize that '37W' makes for a better headline than '5W', but realistically, for the vast majority of cyclists out there, the gains to be had are very small. Just keep your chain reasonably clean and lubed and replace it when it's worn out, basically.
I agree with the comments above, 15W from chain optimisation is unrealistic. You don't appear to have any hard data to back up your statements but have convinced a vast number of the viewing public that everything you come out with is true. All of your data is in the public domain and not your own testing.
As a professional engineer, this strategy is questionable.
Hi Hambini. It is not a question of convincing anyone of anything we are providing data interpretation and data interpretation tools. What did you think of our pulley loss estimator model? ps. I was not aware you held an oinion that we can only talk on youtube about topics concerning our own generated data. On this basis youtube is going to be pretty empty.
I cannot download your pulley estimator because I don't have a facebook or twitter account.
I just replaced the wheels and I felt the difference. So I bought on Merlins cycle the whole Ceramic speed for OSPW and I CAN NOT complain. I paid 350 dollars.
I believe that the ceramic speed rear derailleurs with the enlarged pully wheels are a good pice of equipment.
But at a price tag of roughly 500,- EUR / USD this will definitely be the very last upgrade I consider. Even if its performance meets my expectations we're still just talking about 1 watt for 250,- EUR or so. That's bloody expensive!
Thanks for speaking truth against a big manufacturer. Cheers
What about us mere mortals with limited budgets?
Remove the seals from steel bearings and reduce the fill rate to 25% using light oil, not grease. What is it? You say you wear out your bearings fast this way? So? Considering you have to service your ceramic bearings frequently to maintain performance, its more cost and time efficient to just buy medium price steal cartridges, strip them off original grease and seals and replace them periodically.
Funny is that on the Graph the tacx ceramic are 4/5th Place and they Cost like 25$ :D
Just keep your drive train clean, and train hard. No amount of super slippery bearings is going to make you into a world class athlete. Peter Sagan could out sprint me on a BMX.
Debunking that ceramic nonsense deserves a sub at least. Ceramic is good in machine bearings with RPMs going into tens to hundreds of thousands [because of heat]. Ceramic elements other then bearings just make your bike more expensive and less sturdy for marginal weight gains.
Thank you for making this video; you saved me hundreds of dollars.
imagine someone once counts all the manufacturers' claims and puts them together on one bike... frame, clothes, shoes, helmet, drivetrain, wheels, tires, etc... could easily "save" you more than hundred virtual watts
Based on the claims I've seen, the bike will pedal itself!
Ceramic Speed, it's their way of marketing and over hyping it up. Unless you are a racing professional, you will want to do anything to gain an advantage over your rivals. But for the rest of us mere mortals, this marginal gain just ain't worth the money. This video is great, 2 thumbs up.
Shimano tourney saves (roughly) 2.78766w over Campagnolo Ultegra Red Edition
good video, well explanation! I think in practice the most important thing is what you say at 11'25" ff, the grease is extremely important factor, and that can turn the best bearing in the laboratory into a very poor one on the road and vice versa, because the best bearing with some dirt in it is by far worse than a midclass bearing with heavy but clean grease. May be that is the reason for the high W with Campa and new Dura Ace jockey wheels? Campus grease is very chewy (if you clean Campa jockey wheels and put just oil in the bearings, they run as almost as the Ceramic Speeds in the video), but it is a great barrier against dirt, and may be Shimano has changed the grease for the new DA (cause I can't imagine they have downgraded the wheels...)?
Never mind the watt gain or lost I like the way they look.
honest and well articulated content 👌
I can experience several lost watts, through a dirty, crusty, dry rear derailleur that I've neglected for a year. If I were to swap out to one of these, I suspect I'd clean and lube everything else at the same time, and sure, guess what I'd gain? I gave up on Aftermkt ball bear pulleys decades ago, after I found them to get clogged worse than every bushing pulley I ever used. Cutout lightening holes also just get full of greasy road dirt as well.
Nice theorie, now it's time to test it and see if it holds true
which theory are you referring to specifically (from the video); and....are you willing to help with the testing?
I use a 15 tooth ceramic bearing pulley, the company is not ceramic speed but another brand name called Fouriers; I think they are great and I felt a difference. The difference is not that much but surely I could feel the chain less tensed. I really think the difference is more than 1 watts. It's jus my opinion.
placebo effect?
Thank you for the video- there has to be a good reason why the big manufacturers don’t offer oversized pulley wheels as standard or as an option
Another point to mention is the enormous amount of extra noise these large alloy pulley systems make over the smaller plastic types used by Shimano/SRAM/Campagnolo. This to me would negate any possible savings in power (if there were any) as the extra noise produced is very fatiguing...
Graham Tricker That is a very interesting point Graham Tricker because extra noise is usually a sign of wasted energy. However I love a quiet bike too that why I like the SRAM RED 1190 cassette not necessarily because of the weight.
Sram 1170 is quieter and not much heavier. Can't justify the price of another Red 1190 over an 1170.
Buy a 1170 once (I don't know if it applies to the 1190, too), and when you need to replace it, go for the 1130 and just swap the spacers and lockring. Voila, you upgraded your 1130 to a 1170.
Ooh, might give that a try, cheers :)
Talk about the point of diminishing returns! It's all too distracting, I ride for fun these days, and so I don't drive a car when I don't need to which has turned out to be around 21 years now. So screw watts, how much smog have I saved the Earth from?
did you add in rolling resistances and smoothness? Have you used it? can you fell how much smoother it is? You did ride the product right?
It must be all about feel and feedback from the drivetrain as a system rather than having noticeable gains.
Ultegra bearings are better than super record despite super record costing 3x as much? and only weighing 400-500 grams less? god damn.
How does campag manage to sell anything above chorus? Some people just have too much money.
my shimano 5600 rear mech and its original pulleys are good enough for me.
Great vid by these guys. I have been a bike mechanic for 21 years and i have fornd there are better and much more affordable ways to get less drag from your bearings than buying ceramic bearings and buying into the BS of ceramic bearings.
I installed my Ceramic Speed bottom bracket, a new YBN chain and an OSPWS and I can tell you for sure it all adds up to free watts. I have zero resistance in my drive train, none. I also fitted my race wheels, I hand built them, with special coated ceramic bearings in the hubs. I tested all of the changes against my tried and true benchmark testing course(s). One of my courses is 14 miles and I saved 6 minutes and 30 seconds. Additionally, no matter where I ride my bike, I am consistently able to use two harder gears and am moving faster. I'm happy I live in a time when I can enjoy the amazing technology that is fun, exciting and very, very fast.
My bike/drive train are always spotless.
Are you really trying to tell us that you went from doing a 22km course in, say, 37.7 minutes (35km/h) to 31.4 minutes (42km/h)?? And all down to some ceramic bearings and a new chain? Sorry but that's just delusional. Assuming a flat course, that's going from 210watts to 345watts. A 135W difference....no way.
then you woke up...
I remain baffled that there's a perceived benefit to 15T pulley wheels when cassette cogs have shrunk to 11T. The cassette cog has far greater load (therefore more friction) than pulley wheels. Has anyone done the math on the watts penalty of adding a link or two to the chain to accommodate the wagon wheel size pulleys?
Legend.. excellent information.
dura ace from 1995 had ceramic bearings in puley but puley were smaller and coster 10-15 usd
everybody have a watch but not everybody can have a Rolex ceramispeed 👍
Not worth $500 for 1.4w... they charge this mostly for the looks. I bet they pay like $20 to make this and sell it for $500! Great margins guys!
Grease = drag = less power, this is why Ceramic Bearings seem to run more freely. if you remove the grease and less friction on the bearing seals you will save power
Also Ceramic is designed to work best at high temp and high speeds upwards of 7000rpm which you could never attain on a bicycle
No grease left in my ultegra pulley wheel. Spins better than Alistair Campbell on a carousel. I just pop a bit of Teflon dry lube on it after every wash. Eventually it will die, and I shall replace it with the new set I have in my spares drawer that cost £15.
If I had that kind of money to spend I would Not spend it on ceramic bearings. Total waste of money!!
I think if you’re buying this stuff simply to be faster on a Sunday coffee ride, then it’s worth looking in the mirror.
The best reward for being faster on a Sunday morning comes when it’s earned through riding more and training smarter :)
Where can you get the R-ACE.
Do you have a website for me?
Where can I find information about the R-Ace?
Thank You
Steffan we cannot find it either...maybe it is discontinued!
Nice review. Did you also check the aeroeffect of the OPWS?
Thank you for this analysis.
Great vid, thank you !
I get it, doesn't look like it would save watts. But, I bought a SRAM Red derailleur new on ebay, gears would grind on occasion, mechanic thought it was pulleys, replaced pulleys, no change, my mechanic said CeramicSpeed oversized wheels have 3 different adjustment angles that can be made and we were able to adjust out the clash of gears. With the CeramicSpeed I am faster, maybe mental, but when I push my bike through say stops, the bike gets noticed, especially by mechanics comment on my SHIV, so I'm happy. Note, all other comparable big wheel pulley systems he mentions are non adjustable if you derailleur is off like mine. And it has to be serviced every 6 mos like he says, but we'll worth it in my application.
Wouldnt you just align your derailleur?
@@johndef5075
Stock derailleur pulleys only have one angle of adjustment, CeramicSpeed has 3, was able to correct the weird angle. It was bought on Ebay, so don't know how to get mfg to fix it.
Great video and good analytical skill
isn't it about time that flexibility is engineered in to rear derailleurs i.e. so that jockey wheels point along the chain. And maybe the teeth on the front chain ring could have teeth that swivel on a needle bearing. Or have a solenoid controlled rear cassette that moves itself into the correct position. And a flame thrower on the back is essential.
There's another point the lightweight aluminum rollers have a very short life. I typically have to change rollers annually to be sure
What you don't talk about is whether potential increases from aero-drag due to a bigger cage and jockey wheels offsets any frictional losses. As a mountainbiker I care not, but as an engineer, I'm curious.
Quite true! but actually I do talk about that! (in the follow up video, see the unlisted one at the end too) ruclips.net/video/Oj-N8oMPBj8/видео.html
@@Fastfitnesstips
Nice one. Snake oil then.
at 00:41 there is some green text at the bottom of the screen that says something about "Editor: how do you know they are...." but it is not readable due to the color of the text on the dark background. Can the makers of this video please clarify what that text says?
The editor's comment is regarding "selling to pro teams" we don't know if anything is being sold to pro teams vs giving away products to pro team in return for product placement; product placement deals are pretty common practice in sport and may not be disclosed by the manufacturer.
OK, thanks
Do you add back 1 watt with the extra air resistance of the larger wheel? :)
in some circumstances yes! see fft.tips/ospw
Im just wondering if you can take the cheaper ones and replace the actual bearings with bearings from another industry. like RC Cars and skateboards. Some skateboard riders have used ceramic bearings for decades. Also, when you picture RC Cars, please dont picture the toys you get from the supermarket. Rather, picture a almost 4kg car made from high quality alloys and carbon fiber worth approx $3000. These guys use Ceramic bearings sometimes too, esp in nitro engines. but there is very little difference in the wheel bearings, but arguably more benifit in the engines. In the picture, the beaings casing seems to be pretty much industry standard. So long as the sizes are the same as other industry's. I say it would not hurt to try. you can get ceramic bearings for RC Cars for as little as $50. So it depends how many would be needed too. $500 for a set of beaings seems like a bit of an exploit to me. I highly recomend someone investogating the use of bearings from other industry's to chaive the same result as these guys have.
Hi, what if i changed stock pulleys with cbear ceramic, how much savings that i will gain? 1 watt or even less?
That's lucky then, even I realised you are not head of marketing😊
Interesting! Any chance you can throw a link to the R-ace system? Having trouble finding anything through Google. Cheers.
www.indiegogo.com/projects/world-fastest-oversized-pulley-wheel-cage-system-bike#/
I think the engineer behind the product has some good ideas, but the real results come from testing, not estimating. I do like how he wants to use thick sprockets to hold and align the chain for best shifting, but doesn't want the drag involved. Good to see he is thinking with different ideas on how to solve the problem. Unfortunatly, it looks like his project is dead. I cannot contact him..
Without the ceramic bearing and wattage saving bullshit, large pulley with reasonable price (50~70 USD) is not bad, as it makes cleaning much easier.
The small default cogs make it a little hard to clean, as the only way to clean them is to disassemble them from derailleur, while large pulley don't.
Despite that, I see nothing else worthy.
Don't over sized pulley wheels, offer less parasitic loss & the chain follows a path of less resistance?
In each system (large or small) the chain ends up making the same bends. So wouldn't the amount of friction in each bend end up equalling each other? Sure the smaller tooth increases the bend in the chain but the larger pully has more chain links that are bent to run the same path. Did I miss something that explains that?
but that chain bend happens only twice - when the chain enters the pull wheel and when it leaves the pull wheel; it does not matter how many teeth are in between those points, because no further bend does happen, the chain stays in the same configuration
You have tu do a test where you put your bike without ceramicspeed, an another with ceramicspeed.....knowing the power input and the power output you really can know how many watts are you saving
Was there a testing methodology used here that led to measurements supporting the claim against CS?
I enjoy the idea of comparing these different systems. However, by utilizing other sources of testing and mixing and matching data, you are introducing what you claim could potentially be biased data as your own objective data.
I think a more objective method would be to set up a rig with a control system and measure other systems based on that control. Then you would need a large enough sample size to have reliable values.
Or, formulate a calculation for a dynamic pulley system and find the friction losses in the system based on input power and response. This would be your proprietary excel sheet, but then you'd have to find friction losses from other parts of the system from literature or again test yourself.
Ultimately, you rely on secondary sources, but for such relatively small watt gains you claim are actually saved precision and accuracy would require a high level of integrity.. Still it would be more informative and support your claim.
what will happens when dirt comes into ball bearings- it is in stream of dirt air .
i use shimano dura ace from 1995. with ceramic slide bearings-it will last forever, does not rust and it is still as new but it has pay attention on torque when screw
Can't help but think that if you're gonna spend c.$500 on upgrades there are better places to spend it.
thank you, excellent video
Everything that comes out of ceramic speed seems to be from engineers that don't actually understand physics. Back at the University we used call those guys parrots. They were always looking over your shoulder for the answers and then would just repeat it back to someone else. They never actually understood what was being taught.
Silly marginal gain conundrum: I have dura ace 11t pulleys with 7000 dry kilometers in them. Teeth look in good shape. Would I find better watts/£ value buying some Tacx T4065 pulleys (0.1w faster than DA and fresh teeth, bearings etc.) at around £25 or buying some ceramic speed pulley oil for £5.50 for the dura ace ones I already have?
George C email info@fastfitness.tips and I'll give you a preview of our calculator which will give the answer
Sent the email. Look forward to receiving the preview of the calculator.
ok got it
much appreciated. Thank you
So my question would be; so does that mean every single item you showed is also bottom of the barrel including the most expensive wireless systems? I’m actually being serious 🤔
Appreciate your approach and the info. Would be nice if you could improve your audio quality.
ok thanks agreed!
Summary: for bigger savings at no cost use light oil on the pulley wheels and keep drive train pristine clean.
hi guys! i personally use it and 4 other racers/friends of mine also. and trust me it completely worth it . you'll feel a great difference on your first ride.
you feel a great difference? What do you feel? Different shifting or sound or the saved energy?
That difference its called placebo 😂👍
We all knew of course that these CS OSPW's are total BS. However, I'm running campag chorus 10sp and I'm getting slightly annoyed with the pulley wheels - really bad design. Does anyone know of a good after market option? It would be nice to save a watt, but what I really want is some decently sealed bearings there instead of a metal cylinder that gets corroded.
Great Video, I think Ben Powell's reply (somewhere, deep below) did more harm than good, because it has a huge contradiction: First he claims that "the frictional losses contributed to the rear derailleur system by bearings are lower in an OSPW than in a standard rear derailleur" due to the fact that the CS wheels rotate at a lower rate than the standard wheels. Then on his second reply he writes "The friction created by a rear derailleur is independent of rider output", which is totally laughable. Apparently Ben skipped Physics in college? No speed, no friction force. More rpms = more friction force. Sure the system's friction coefficient may be a constant, but the friction forces increase with speed and power, DUUUUH.
Newton's Third law of motion. This obvious mistake (when it suits ceramic speed, of course) leads me to believe they are completely full of shit.
Ben, If your products are so good, and you are honest about your claims, setup an independent lab test... otherwise, don't be surprised if everyone thinks your products are an overpriced SCAM.
Technically speaking he is right. Rotational acceleration which could be zero if the rider keeps the drive train moving at the same speed and pushing against air, rolling resistance and elevation changes resulting in different power measurements.
But yeah, I dont think you get these for any real practical purposes unless you need every edge to win or want to change the RD cage for another reason.
@@sakizashi5421 He is not talking about rotational acceleration, he is talking about friction losses due to the different rotational speed of the wheels. This may be correct, but then he states that "The friction created by a rear derailleur is independent of rider output", which is wrong. On the first statement he says that the speed of the rider does affect the friction on the wheels, and on the second statement he contradicts himself saying it doesn't, using a technicality to confuse the reader by omitting the term FORCE.. yes.. the friction coefficient on the system doesn't change, but the friction force does, obviously.
my teammate just got one today, I am looking on the details of oversized pulley, as I watched this video, I canceled my mind to purchase one.
500 USD for a few watts is pricey indeed
I'd probably rate myself as a bling addict but I have serious doubt about a test of something like that being of benefit without the entire bike being tested in a wind tunnel. Better bearings that are machined to a higher tolerance -YEP, smoother "run in" and better lubed chain = YEP. Monster rear derailleur cage hanging out the back - UMMM, NO!
The market that is skilled enough to truly take advantage of gear like this is literally numbers in the low thousands, yet I constantly see people debating each other on the merits of dumping thousands of dollars into "high end" gear for almost zero performance gains. Lol
Another great video
thanks, appreciated. its an area where people have strong opinions!