Shame you didn't show them assemble the bearings. You were so close but didn't do a close up of it. I would have been interesting to see them measure the races and match them and then the rest of the assembly.
Intersting that its talked so much about the roundness and tolerances, when in fact for any reasonable modern bearing in speeds that you find in bikes, the type of sealing and type of grease have greater impact of power loss than the roundness of the balls.
Knowing that it's founded by a blader makes me rather more fond of you guys! I've spent hours upon hours pampering my lil' 608s to get that little bit of extra speed...
SRAM, Shimano, Campagnolo and FSA are all very competitive companies with very smart engineers. If over-sided pulleys/jocky wheels and really expensive ceramic bearings actually offered real improvements, one of those companies would have started putting them on their derailleurs years ago. Food for thought, shimano doesn't give their engineers any budget limitations when working on new Dura Ace components, and they haven't switched. My guess is they know something ceramic speed doesn't.
Some drivetrain component manufacturers switched to ceramic bearings years ago. For example, SRAM has been using ceramic bearings in its top-of-the-line Red bottom brackets (such as the Red GXP that I prefer) for quite a few years. They say the bearings come from a "BlackBox" Danish source. Is this CeramicSpeed? I don't know. SRAM has also used ceramic bearings in the jockey wheels of their Red rear derailleur for years (this goes back to their 10-speed derailleurs). Perhaps that's why CeramicSpeed reports a smaller increase in performance of the SRAM version of their oversize OPSW cage and jockey wheels compared to Shimano. I don't believe that Shimano has made the transition to ceramic bearings yet for Dura-Ace and I'm not familiar with other drivetrain manufacturers like Campagnolo, FSA, Rotor, etc. Another source for GXP bottom brackets that I like is HSC out of Melbourne, Australia. They use grade 3 ceramic balls the same as CeramicSpeed yet their bottom brackets cost $127 in the U.S. versus $359 for the uncoated CeramicSpeed version (the coated CS version is $499). One of the biggest surprises for cyclists inexperienced with ceramic bearings is their frequent service requirement. If the bearings are harder and wear longer than steel, why is this so? Answer: Because the races are still steel -- only the balls are ceramic. This presents a problem when the grease is contaminated because the much-harder ceramic balls will quickly score the softer steel races. Plus, ceramic bearings tend to have less weather-resistant seals. Why? Because the better the seal, the more friction it adds to the bearing and, since the primary purpose for ceramic bearings is reduced friction, the seals must be fairly light. These lighter seals mean that the grease in ceramic bearings will usually be more easily contaminated than all-steel bearings with better seals. So manufacturers like SRAM recommend that ceramic bearings be cleaned and regreased immediately after every exposure to rain or foul weather. Failure to do this will cause the expensive bearings to degrade faster than all-steel bearings. However, if the ceramic bearings are never exposed to rain or bad weather, their service interval is just as good, if not better, than all-steel bearings. One of CeramicSpeed's optional features is a secret metallic coating to both the inner and outer steel races which is supposed to increase their hardness by about 75% (they claim). This may mitigate some of the contamination problem above and extend the bad-weather service intervals. But the coating adds about US$140 to the cost of a CeramicSpeed bottom bracket or US$100 to the cost of a jockey wheel set. I can buy about four HSC ceramic bottom brackets for the price of one coated CeramicSpeed BB so I think HSC offers a much better value. And, like CeramicSpeed, HSC can claim that world champions use their products, too. I like what CeramicSpeed and their competitors are doing and I think it definitely makes sense for athletes chasing a win or world record. I'm willing to pay a little extra for ceramic bearings as long as it isn't too much extra. Regretfully, CeramicSpeed is too much for my budget. However, I doubt that ceramic bearings make sense for most non-professional cyclists because of the expense. You can easily spend more on CeramicSpeed upgrades than you would buying a new mid-grade road bike!!! If you service your all-steel bearings regularly as recommended, they should last plenty long. And the few extra calories you'll burn pumping out a few extra watts will probably be good for your health. :-)
If I'm not mistaken, CeramicSpeed coats their races with a titanium film that gives them the strength mentioned. I thought all CS races had this coating, but you're saying it's extra?
In cycling, a good metal bearing (NTN) is as efficient and as ceramic bearings for 20% of the cost. To get the advantage of Ceramic bearings, you need very high rotational speed (20000rpm).
stock bearings, ceramics are lower friction, they almost equal out if you remove the grease and guard. done differently, like matching raceway cage and bearing materials, i think ceramic would win. you can also use other ceramics beside silicon nitride, which has some drawbacks versus competing materials.
@@ivanteo1973 ability to retain smoothness despite silica intrusion is. thats the case for hardness, in its most general and incorrect term. you gotta get off that math stuff, sounds unhealthy.
@@Baigle1 I think you are confused with smoothness and friction. Hardness is the resistance to indentation and has totally nothing to do with friction. that said having a ceramic ball bearing with a steel outer and inner ring is a complete nonsense because the balls will wear off the rings much earlier.
@@ivanteo1973 Now, how do we make it a more efficient sealed air bearing with low friction and no contaminant ingress? Is there a geometry that allows us to use an air journal bearing at high pneumatic pressure, or a low viscosity fluid as the main load bearing material between the raceways, with the ball bearings a failback? How do we keep the balls separate and uniform between the raceways without using a cage and lubricant that adds friction?
That Aero recumbant bike is actually a Dutch bike you can buy. (Velomobile) Maybe the Paint job was custom, but that bike was not specially designed for one person ;) still a very cool and fast bike.
yup, it's a Quest. a carbon quest in particular. their in an entire class of bikes called velomobiles. they can be seen regular (although not often) in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany, and there are about a dozen different makes of them. the quest is the most popular in the Netherlands i think.
Here I was thinking they were so expensive because of the materials they use. Turns out, it's because the guy who puts the screws in is a pro cyclist! I bet they've got Eddy Mercx in the back running the CNC machine!
Aaaand because employees in Denmark have rights, get social benefits, take paid leaves, get insurance, work in a safe environment, in a structurally stable building, and many other things.
Aaaasnndd you sound like you don’t know economics cuckoo. These benefits are common these days, in America a business like this those benefits are par the course. The only difference is usually a company will hire someone who will work for less to bring the price down so people buy more and the company grows, as the company grows they hire more people. I respect quality over quantity but hopefully now you can understand Romans point.
Ceramic bb's might be good in high RPM engines, because of the heat they can withstand, but in bikes, they are not worth your buck. Good steel bearings [like german, or japanese, but not chinese!] are just as fast, and not like the wall presentation in the factory - much slower - that was bs. Ceramic are bit lighter - thats all. Not worth your money, but nice ad.
I've been using ceramic bearing for a number of years in various implementations. For bicycle applications they are not substantively different from precision steel bearings and the spin of unloaded bearings is a useless demo of their function versus a steel bearing (although I love doing it). Ceramic Speeds jockey wheels and lube arguably have a far greater reduction in driveline friction compared to using ceramic versus NTN non-contact steel bearings in a similar arrangement. This largely comes down to the seal and lubes used in the bearings and has little to nothing to do with bearing durometer or precision (the measurable difference between NTN and CeramicSpeed is for practical purposes naught). For someone who is obsessed with freeing watts, your best bet is to research grease and to use low friction seals on your bearings as that compromises 80%+ of bearing friction. I'm not a naysayer of CeramicSpeed, but there is a lot more marketing fluff than actual engineering science in a lot of their bike shop presentations. I personally use their products, but I also know that the gains versus precision steel is within most margins of error.
2 friends of mine have had these jockey wheels disintegrate causing the rear derailleur to go into their wheel. They both were very lucky as this could have taken out a large groups of riders at high speed. They've heard of this happening to others as well. Needless to say they no longer use these
I have seen a couple of poorly installed cages that have done this. User error every time, generally cause by not following the instructions and taking their time with maintenance.
I'm most certainly not going to state they were as high in quality, but in the 2000's jockey wheels with bearings were being sold, and their life-spans just weren't as good as OEM jockey wheels. Either due to bad weather riding, or just use, the bearings would start to seize. We all gave up on them then, so I can certainly understand how it would happen now. If CermaicSpeed really is using looser seals to 'market' the watts saved, they would allow more road debris into the bearings.
Interesting video, but some snake-oil alarm bells are ringing. For professional use the races also have to be made of ceramic. Only then i can turn my headset at 12000rpm nearly frictionless. To make your cranks spin like in the video, remove your sealing and ungrease your cheap bearings. By the way, i recommend gold platet network cables to have more clear colors while surfing the web. ;-)
We have a Series of races in Australia called Pedal Prix where you race in a recumbent bike for hours with hundreds of other bikes. There is even a 24 hour race, you guys should have a look at it.
This is a cool technology but the demo of the smoothly swinging crank looks fake. Take a clean well-adjusted steel ball bearing without seals and it'll swing freely just the same. I've seen this even with cheap bearings. So yeah, ceramic bearings might have some advantage but this company should be using honest demos of comparing like for like. Otherwise it busts their credibility and leads to doubt of everything they claim.
I've completed my Chris King jewelry kit for my Yeti and I look forward to changing my XX1 AXS for the 5dev XX and adding some Ceramic Speed to my steed. Stoked
Hi and greetings from 'Oz cycle' Australia. Enjoyed this video. Nice of 'Ceramicspeed' to allow you into their inner tech areas. Interesting facts and figures on the ceramic balls themselves too. Looks like 'Ceramicspeed' are genuinely pursuing the goals of a more efficient drivetrain and acquiring Jason from 'Friction facts'. At the same time the company needs to survive,hence their products high prices. Thanx again. Cheers...Steven
Hey oz Greetings from Colombia, I have tested your paraffin chain lubing and let me tell you that is AWESOME, right now we are in rainy season and the lubbing withstands for about three plus 190 km rides. also use in my Hybrid (commuting) bike and It doesn't come out after several commutes on rainy/muddy rides. I was wondering if ceramic bearing can be lubed with paraffin too...?
Prices are partially result of how things are being manufactured but big part of is the name and story they sell with that product. I'm like you Steven, I like to pay only for the product and not for that story that comes with the product.
Aha! Finally, pedal prix gets a run on GCN! Seriously though, a 24-hour race (as a team) in those recumbent fully-faired trikes is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.
Amazing stuff, I've learned a lot about how a drivetrain(chain) handles things now from this video, I've always wondered my previous KMC chain lasted so long for three years(even though it was worn out) it did a great job at lasting for 1000s of mile, I got a new KMC chain to replace my previous one and it still does a great job (no doubt).
My 35 years of mechanical engineering experience tells me you have a fine product with a short life expectancy because the thin lightweight aluminum rollers will disintegrate. As far as energy-savings, I wouldn't hold my breath on it. The coefficient of friction doesn't go away just because you have rounder bearings. The chain is going to be at an angle and that is where your energy will always go.
I just got recommended this video after I have been watching GCN for a couple of months now and recently also bought a road bike. And I was excited to see you come to my home town of Holstebro. 😁
I don't own a super or hyperbike just some normal commuters bike to get from a to b - and my knowledge is, well, not existant. But I can tell you that my ex-boss who rode bikes for many years recently changed pretty much all bearings on his bike to ceramic ones - and he immediately was 4-5 Minutes faster on his 30min ride to work. Pretty impressive what difference it seems to make!
I love these companies who go after the best innovations. Mainly because I'm tired of messing with cut corners and barely good enough junk. Still it's hard, however, to rationalize the expense. My favorite part of the video was the total lack of an on-screen escort. The workers who were on screen hardly acknowledged Mr Lloyd or outright ignored him. It seemed a little spooky. They've won me as a fan.
Hey Patrick! We promise we didn’t let Dan fly solo. We made sure he was fed well and hydrated. We were ready to go on screen upon his request. We even got our hair cuts. But we think he did a pretty solid job without us.
5:02 he talks about putting cage over bearings. This is standard, however I seen and read recently about Greaseless bearings that eliminate sliding friction by using indentations on raceway to create separation without a cage. I wonder if that technology would be of benefit to Ceramic bearings
With all the comments on here both positive and negative a blind test would be pretty cool. Use two identical bikes, one equipped with as many CeramicSpeed components as possible and one with standard. Then have you guys ride them and see if you can tell which is which. You would have to omit parts that would be a visual giveaway unless you could find a visually similar non ceramic version. Would be a challenge to set up but I think it would be fun and interesting.
4-n it’s actually a test we use internally from time to time. Often when we have corporate visits or “outside” industry visits. We have an A and a B bike, setup exactly as you say, then we make the non cyclists ride both and have them give feedback on which bike rode the smoothest.
I just can't justify paying $479 USD for a ceramic BB with coated bearings. I'm sure CeramicSpeed BBs are good, but they cost at least double what they should.
I saw this interesting video an engineer made showing that ceramic bearings aren’t all they’re cracked up to be and often much more expensive and sometimes producing more friction. Most of the friction comes from the seal and cage with only about 2 percent coming from the actual ball it self, they will also wear the cups out more quickly because they are harder than steel which leads to a shorter life span. m.ruclips.net/video/o7iZVfSDbiA/видео.html
@@Baigle1 Do you have anything relevant to come with? Besides just putting out some bullshit about magnetic bearings without backing anything up? The video isn't outdated at all as ceramic bearings are still being sold at ridiculous prices, when they will wear out faster and perform worse in the longer run.
Correction: at approximately 4:20 in the video you stated that the tolerance on the bearings was "2.5 microns, or 0.00025". That is incorrect. 2.5 microns = 0.0025: you were off by a factor of ten. If the tolerance really is 0.00025 then that would be 0.25 microns.
Thoroughly enjoyed Matt's laugh, the Wig will be missed. Who else can teach us how to pour a beer properly??? Matt, please submit some indoor training videos in the future, your commentary makes an extra challenge not to chuckle while in an effort!
Hello, I'm wondering if it's better to push your limit in the big ride of the week or to do a ride a little bit easier in order to do more training during the week? If may be interesting to do a video about this subject
I fell for it in my early riding days - have a ceramicspeed bottom bracket, but after watching hambini NTN non contact seals for any future bearings …. Unless I make it into a Tour de France team, then 🙄
Helle Frederiksen it's unfortunate that it's all in your head. They have done independent testing and the results are not at all good. No better than high quality steel bearings. And as a bike Mechanic I have taken enough Ceramic Speed bearings out of bikes to know they don't last all that Long. Certainly not long enough to justify them being 10x more expensive than steel bearings. You see the hard Ceramic balls chip when hit and the ball hardness leads to them wearing out the steel races faster.
Hey Reginald! I may be a complex human being, but I’m not crazy 😂 there’s no mistaking a fully upgraded drivetrain with CS, is far smoother and “easier” to pedal. I think a lot of mechanics encounter a poor experience with low quality ceramics and then throw a blanket over CeramicSpeed. These balls do not chip!
Reginald Scot its been proven many times 🤷♂️ Conpare dura ace ceramic bearing to ceramic speed or sram etap ceramic bearings to. Eramic speed you soon see how good ceramic speed is I run then and there leaps and bounds ahead
Helle, while I don't know if CS bearings are better than traditional high quality steel bearings, I think you should mention that CS is one of your support partners. Just to allow people to see the full picture when you praise a product.
Hi Jesper. Thanks for the input. I actually didn’t feel it to be relevant in this case, but maybe it is. I believe athletes who authentically use and standby a product shouldn’t have to inform they are supported. Too often people assume a supported athlete is not an honest athlete, and that I would like to avoid.
use bearings that have metal cages and non contact seals, just as fast, last way longer and much cheaper. check out hambini he tests the life span of bottom brackets and Ceramic speed won't submit one for test.
They won’t dare send him one because he would eat their pseudo science up for lunch and they know it. Con artist products like this that are backed by non scientific con artist claims can only survive if they maintain a pool of gullible fools to sell their snake oil wares to. That pretty much sums up their ceramic bearing customer base at this point. As PT Barnum used to say, “there’s a sucker born every minute”!! 😃
Have them in my bottom bracket but maybe i will install industrial bearings like SKF next time again, not sure of it. You need to apply grease to them every 6 months so you need to take everything apart and that's 80-90% of the effort of replacing the bearings by new ones so the question for me personally is if the price is worth the 20-10% effort saving. And not only the effort but also having frequent components failures on a bike is just annoying. So I bought them because i hoped they lasted longer than the default bearings fitted, not so much for the power savings (and yes i still don't have any problems with them so no this is not a comment on the product itself).
Can we say that the best part of the tour is Dan's strong hair game?! No but seriously it was Dan's hair... Actually I think just seeing what the bearings are made of and looking at the hall with the very real world comparison of what a difference a good low friction bearing can do does bring it into contrast. Wish that the jockey wheels didn't look so hidious otherwise they would be a very appealing prospect!
Nice tour! Great product. True fine artisan work. No way 5 watts will make a difference for me (5 kgs would ;-) ) but the products themselves are a work of art.
I way on this planet their bearings lead to anything that remotely approaches a 5 watt savings either! The pseudo science claims of CS seem to appeal to many! 😊
Maybe CeramicSpeed could help Dan out! You could see the gears grinding in Dan’s head with the lag in his speech, his eyes glazing over, and the smoke coming out of his ears when he was trying to remember the numbers on the ball bearings.
Let us know what your favourite part of the Ceramic Speed factory tour was 👇
The testing equipment was pretty cool...and that GCN gives us this great behind the scenes content.
The part where you left the company. Let's face it, they are money grabbing company with some bogus claims.
My favorite part was when you said "And we'll be giving away a Ceramic Speed Derailleur. Enter in the description down below." ....... Oh wait...
Shame you didn't show them assemble the bearings. You were so close but didn't do a close up of it. I would have been interesting to see them measure the races and match them and then the rest of the assembly.
Martin Mortensen at 5:59. Looks like he'd rather be out riding instead of working, just like the rest of us.
I'm disappointed you missed a visit to the very heart of CeramicSpeed - the marketing department
That bottom crankset was lubricated with peanut butter.
SCRcat6 I ride on peanut butter 😁
be careful not to be attacked by a squirrel
Yes but you save on Power bar!😉
Yup
That's NUTS!
If I lose a sprint or a climb because my opponent had ceramic speed, and I didn't, I didn't train hard enough.
Translation, "I took one day off of training because that's about the extent of the edge you get from CS's products"
Intersting that its talked so much about the roundness and tolerances, when in fact for any reasonable modern bearing in speeds that you find in bikes, the type of sealing and type of grease have greater impact of power loss than the roundness of the balls.
Thanks for making the trip over guys. A pleasure to host you for a few days. Stay cool and keep saving watts 😎
Cheers, it was a fascinating tour. Thank you for having us and letting Dan have a ride 👌
What is the groupset on the Strada?!
Thnx
Hello from Santa Fe, New Mexico
Does that Quest is also equiped with your products? We often have not to big space for derailleurs in velomobils
Knowing that it's founded by a blader makes me rather more fond of you guys! I've spent hours upon hours pampering my lil' 608s to get that little bit of extra speed...
Thanks Pratalax. Jacob still pulls out the blades from time to time and does a few hot laps around the local town here.
I love the whole tour in factory and Dan as always made a hell of good work!
Cheers Petinka!
Yeah, I know this is a promotion video but actually I find it very interesting to go behind the scenes so in that respect it's a fair trade.
at 04:20 he fucked up the measurement by factor 10. how is this a good job?
SRAM, Shimano, Campagnolo and FSA are all very competitive companies with very smart engineers. If over-sided pulleys/jocky wheels and really expensive ceramic bearings actually offered real improvements, one of those companies would have started putting them on their derailleurs years ago. Food for thought, shimano doesn't give their engineers any budget limitations when working on new Dura Ace components, and they haven't switched. My guess is they know something ceramic speed doesn't.
Some drivetrain component manufacturers switched to ceramic bearings years ago. For example, SRAM has been using ceramic bearings in its top-of-the-line Red bottom brackets (such as the Red GXP that I prefer) for quite a few years. They say the bearings come from a "BlackBox" Danish source. Is this CeramicSpeed? I don't know. SRAM has also used ceramic bearings in the jockey wheels of their Red rear derailleur for years (this goes back to their 10-speed derailleurs). Perhaps that's why CeramicSpeed reports a smaller increase in performance of the SRAM version of their oversize OPSW cage and jockey wheels compared to Shimano. I don't believe that Shimano has made the transition to ceramic bearings yet for Dura-Ace and I'm not familiar with other drivetrain manufacturers like Campagnolo, FSA, Rotor, etc.
Another source for GXP bottom brackets that I like is HSC out of Melbourne, Australia. They use grade 3 ceramic balls the same as CeramicSpeed yet their bottom brackets cost $127 in the U.S. versus $359 for the uncoated CeramicSpeed version (the coated CS version is $499).
One of the biggest surprises for cyclists inexperienced with ceramic bearings is their frequent service requirement. If the bearings are harder and wear longer than steel, why is this so? Answer: Because the races are still steel -- only the balls are ceramic. This presents a problem when the grease is contaminated because the much-harder ceramic balls will quickly score the softer steel races. Plus, ceramic bearings tend to have less weather-resistant seals. Why? Because the better the seal, the more friction it adds to the bearing and, since the primary purpose for ceramic bearings is reduced friction, the seals must be fairly light. These lighter seals mean that the grease in ceramic bearings will usually be more easily contaminated than all-steel bearings with better seals. So manufacturers like SRAM recommend that ceramic bearings be cleaned and regreased immediately after every exposure to rain or foul weather. Failure to do this will cause the expensive bearings to degrade faster than all-steel bearings. However, if the ceramic bearings are never exposed to rain or bad weather, their service interval is just as good, if not better, than all-steel bearings.
One of CeramicSpeed's optional features is a secret metallic coating to both the inner and outer steel races which is supposed to increase their hardness by about 75% (they claim). This may mitigate some of the contamination problem above and extend the bad-weather service intervals. But the coating adds about US$140 to the cost of a CeramicSpeed bottom bracket or US$100 to the cost of a jockey wheel set. I can buy about four HSC ceramic bottom brackets for the price of one coated CeramicSpeed BB so I think HSC offers a much better value. And, like CeramicSpeed, HSC can claim that world champions use their products, too.
I like what CeramicSpeed and their competitors are doing and I think it definitely makes sense for athletes chasing a win or world record. I'm willing to pay a little extra for ceramic bearings as long as it isn't too much extra. Regretfully, CeramicSpeed is too much for my budget. However, I doubt that ceramic bearings make sense for most non-professional cyclists because of the expense. You can easily spend more on CeramicSpeed upgrades than you would buying a new mid-grade road bike!!! If you service your all-steel bearings regularly as recommended, they should last plenty long. And the few extra calories you'll burn pumping out a few extra watts will probably be good for your health. :-)
If I'm not mistaken, CeramicSpeed coats their races with a titanium film that gives them the strength mentioned. I thought all CS races had this coating, but you're saying it's extra?
Hambini coughing in the distance.
Im wondering when they will accept Hambinis challenge 🤔
In cycling, a good metal bearing (NTN) is as efficient and as ceramic bearings for 20% of the cost. To get the advantage of Ceramic bearings, you need very high rotational speed (20000rpm).
stock bearings, ceramics are lower friction, they almost equal out if you remove the grease and guard. done differently, like matching raceway cage and bearing materials, i think ceramic would win. you can also use other ceramics beside silicon nitride, which has some drawbacks versus competing materials.
@@Baigle1 hardness is not part of equation in friction.
@@ivanteo1973 ability to retain smoothness despite silica intrusion is. thats the case for hardness, in its most general and incorrect term. you gotta get off that math stuff, sounds unhealthy.
@@Baigle1 I think you are confused with smoothness and friction. Hardness is the resistance to indentation and has totally nothing to do with friction. that said having a ceramic ball bearing with a steel outer and inner ring is a complete nonsense because the balls will wear off the rings much earlier.
@@ivanteo1973 Now, how do we make it a more efficient sealed air bearing with low friction and no contaminant ingress?
Is there a geometry that allows us to use an air journal bearing at high pneumatic pressure, or a low viscosity fluid as the main load bearing material between the raceways, with the ball bearings a failback? How do we keep the balls separate and uniform between the raceways without using a cage and lubricant that adds friction?
That Aero recumbant bike is actually a Dutch bike you can buy. (Velomobile) Maybe the Paint job was custom, but that bike was not specially designed for one person ;) still a very cool and fast bike.
yup, it's a Quest. a carbon quest in particular. their in an entire class of bikes called velomobiles. they can be seen regular (although not often) in the Netherlands, Belgium and Germany, and there are about a dozen different makes of them. the quest is the most popular in the Netherlands i think.
Here I was thinking they were so expensive because of the materials they use. Turns out, it's because the guy who puts the screws in is a pro cyclist! I bet they've got Eddy Mercx in the back running the CNC machine!
Aaaand because employees in Denmark have rights, get social benefits, take paid leaves, get insurance, work in a safe environment, in a structurally stable building, and many other things.
Aaaasnndd you sound like you don’t know economics cuckoo. These benefits are common these days, in America a business like this those benefits are par the course. The only difference is usually a company will hire someone who will work for less to bring the price down so people buy more and the company grows, as the company grows they hire more people. I respect quality over quantity but hopefully now you can understand Romans point.
2.5 microns or micrometers are not 0.00025 mm but rather 0.0025 mm. It's a world of difference for manufacturing and measuring of these parts.
I picked up on that straight away. He made us sound like sub micron
Engineer by any chance?
@@markgray9326 Nope, just a pedantic CNC-machinist.
Ceramic bb's might be good in high RPM engines, because of the heat they can withstand, but in bikes, they are not worth your buck. Good steel bearings [like german, or japanese, but not chinese!] are just as fast, and not like the wall presentation in the factory - much slower - that was bs. Ceramic are bit lighter - thats all. Not worth your money, but nice ad.
True
I've been using ceramic bearing for a number of years in various implementations. For bicycle applications they are not substantively different from precision steel bearings and the spin of unloaded bearings is a useless demo of their function versus a steel bearing (although I love doing it). Ceramic Speeds jockey wheels and lube arguably have a far greater reduction in driveline friction compared to using ceramic versus NTN non-contact steel bearings in a similar arrangement. This largely comes down to the seal and lubes used in the bearings and has little to nothing to do with bearing durometer or precision (the measurable difference between NTN and CeramicSpeed is for practical purposes naught). For someone who is obsessed with freeing watts, your best bet is to research grease and to use low friction seals on your bearings as that compromises 80%+ of bearing friction. I'm not a naysayer of CeramicSpeed, but there is a lot more marketing fluff than actual engineering science in a lot of their bike shop presentations. I personally use their products, but I also know that the gains versus precision steel is within most margins of error.
Thank you.
In fact in testing I have seen the high quality steel bearings are marginally better and last longer. And if you look at the price for Ceramic... ouch
I sincerely appreciate your comment, but why do you use them if they’re not that worth much in terms of performance?
2 friends of mine have had these jockey wheels disintegrate causing the rear derailleur to go into their wheel. They both were very lucky as this could have taken out a large groups of riders at high speed. They've heard of this happening to others as well. Needless to say they no longer use these
I have seen a couple of poorly installed cages that have done this. User error every time, generally cause by not following the instructions and taking their time with maintenance.
I'm most certainly not going to state they were as high in quality, but in the 2000's jockey wheels with bearings were being sold, and their life-spans just weren't as good as OEM jockey wheels. Either due to bad weather riding, or just use, the bearings would start to seize. We all gave up on them then, so I can certainly understand how it would happen now. If CermaicSpeed really is using looser seals to 'market' the watts saved, they would allow more road debris into the bearings.
Interesting video, but some snake-oil alarm bells are ringing. For professional use the races also have to be made of ceramic. Only then i can turn my headset at 12000rpm nearly frictionless.
To make your cranks spin like in the video, remove your sealing and ungrease your cheap bearings.
By the way, i recommend gold platet network cables to have more clear colors while surfing the web. ;-)
@dan me down hill yea:)
We have a Series of races in Australia called Pedal Prix where you race in a recumbent bike for hours with hundreds of other bikes. There is even a 24 hour race, you guys should have a look at it.
A lot of useful and interesting information. Great to see where and how my C.S. products are made. Thanks Dan.
Cheers Takuan!
This is a cool technology but the demo of the smoothly swinging crank looks fake. Take a clean well-adjusted steel ball bearing without seals and it'll swing freely just the same. I've seen this even with cheap bearings. So yeah, ceramic bearings might have some advantage but this company should be using honest demos of comparing like for like. Otherwise it busts their credibility and leads to doubt of everything they claim.
good job you got em.
I have to say that this appears to be one _smooth_ video
😂
I've completed my Chris King jewelry kit for my Yeti and I look forward to changing my XX1 AXS for the 5dev XX and adding some Ceramic Speed to my steed. Stoked
I've never seen a more disciplined business with that model they could make 1st place in any industry . Bravo
Hi and greetings from 'Oz cycle' Australia.
Enjoyed this video. Nice of 'Ceramicspeed' to allow you into their inner tech areas. Interesting facts and figures on the ceramic balls themselves too.
Looks like 'Ceramicspeed' are genuinely pursuing the goals of a more efficient drivetrain and acquiring Jason from 'Friction facts'. At the same time the company needs to survive,hence their products high prices.
Thanx again.
Cheers...Steven
Sure thing. Now go and find us some cheap alternatives in China :)
Hey oz Greetings from Colombia, I have tested your paraffin chain lubing and let me tell you that is AWESOME, right now we are in rainy season and the lubbing withstands for about three plus 190 km rides. also use in my Hybrid (commuting) bike and It doesn't come out after several commutes on rainy/muddy rides.
I was wondering if ceramic bearing can be lubed with paraffin too...?
Prices are partially result of how things are being manufactured but big part of is the name and story they sell with that product. I'm like you Steven, I like to pay only for the product and not for that story that comes with the product.
Hey Steven, really glad you enjoyed the tour as much as we did!
Aha! Finally, pedal prix gets a run on GCN!
Seriously though, a 24-hour race (as a team) in those recumbent fully-faired trikes is about as much fun as you can have with your clothes on.
30+ year old Campagnolo Record component cup and cone bearings are still smoother
cone, and roller bearings, have more resistance over good ball bearings. foil-air wins against ball, and magnetic wins against air-foil.
Amazing stuff, I've learned a lot about how a drivetrain(chain) handles things now from this video, I've always wondered my previous KMC chain lasted so long for three years(even though it was worn out) it did a great job at lasting for 1000s of mile, I got a new KMC chain to replace my previous one and it still does a great job (no doubt).
Love the way Dan says "Holstebro" !!!
We think he says it in the perfect Danglish accent 😎
love these factory tour videos
Rovi Dela Rosa glad to hear it!
Us too Rovi!
what a warm and supportive people there at the factory!
Ceramic is a nice touch on a bike, not a needed upgrade. Bling and yes I have them on all my bikes.
great factory tour in a very innovative company! I appreciate their products 👍
Thanks for good video!!
I love factory tour
Good to hear it, plenty more where this comes from!
It's very informative thanks 👍 . Pat from Belgium 🚲👊
Cheers Pat!
My 35 years of mechanical engineering experience tells me you have a fine product with a short life expectancy because the thin lightweight aluminum rollers will disintegrate. As far as energy-savings, I wouldn't hold my breath on it. The coefficient of friction doesn't go away just because you have rounder bearings. The chain is going to be at an angle and that is where your energy will always go.
I had that 3D printed pulley wheels in hands a it's incredibly light and smooth (in comparison with normal ceramicspeed oversized)
I just got recommended this video after I have been watching GCN for a couple of months now and recently also bought a road bike. And I was excited to see you come to my home town of Holstebro. 😁
I don't own a super or hyperbike just some normal commuters bike to get from a to b - and my knowledge is, well, not existant.
But I can tell you that my ex-boss who rode bikes for many years recently changed pretty much all bearings on his bike to ceramic ones - and he immediately was 4-5 Minutes faster on his 30min ride to work. Pretty impressive what difference it seems to make!
Great video! Great content. Although I am very happy with my SKF bearings.
Glad you enjoyed the video Jan!
Man I wish my hustles were this lucrative
great tour, thanks GCN!
You're welcome Elliott!
I love these companies who go after the best innovations. Mainly because I'm tired of messing with cut corners and barely good enough junk. Still it's hard, however, to rationalize the expense. My favorite part of the video was the total lack of an on-screen escort. The workers who were on screen hardly acknowledged Mr Lloyd or outright ignored him. It seemed a little spooky. They've won me as a fan.
Hey Patrick! We promise we didn’t let Dan fly solo. We made sure he was fed well and hydrated. We were ready to go on screen upon his request. We even got our hair cuts. But we think he did a pretty solid job without us.
Finally, GCN jumping into a velomobil!
More recumbents guys! Go to Spezi show in germany and I promise you tons of footage worth of cool videos
Yes
!
Not enough oooooo's in the word smooth to describe that presentation.
5:02 he talks about putting cage over bearings. This is standard, however I seen and read recently about Greaseless bearings that eliminate sliding friction by using indentations on raceway to create separation without a cage. I wonder if that technology would be of benefit to Ceramic bearings
Awesome work Dan!
Cheers BigRed!
This era in bike tech will be known as the "era of the wattage wars".
Freud would have some sort of theory about people who buy ceramic speed components...
That car wheel was awesome!!
Cleaning and oiling the drivetrain on an average bike will give an instant boost.
Great presenter, keep up the good work!! great video
Smoothly mind-blown. 🤤 🤤
If it wasn’t for unattainable drool factor of ceramic bearings Dan’s awesome hair would have totally distracted me from video!!!😂😂🤷🏼♂️🤓
Because he's worth it
Just had my rear mech destroy my frame, so found this to be very good interesting and good for the moment, will check them out, cheers.
Glad you enjoyed the video James 👍
Thanks guys!
You're welcome!
So glad they sent Dan. Had this been hosted by Si I would have stopped vid after 30 seconds of his gushing . Well done GCN
'Lager' is a storeroom in German...I guess what Dan wants is the 'lager lager' - a room for storing lager.
🍻
Lager is just like Ian said a warehouse.... but you can drink lager in a lager!
Your hairs on point Dan
It's because he's worth it
Waow amazing product all from ceramic speed
Great show and thank you.
You're welcome Suresh 👍
Wow!
That is so cool and epic! Looking at the bearings make me drool...
Cheers Omaris!
Anytime! (^_-)
With all the comments on here both positive and negative a blind test would be pretty cool. Use two identical bikes, one equipped with as many CeramicSpeed components as possible and one with standard. Then have you guys ride them and see if you can tell which is which. You would have to omit parts that would be a visual giveaway unless you could find a visually similar non ceramic version. Would be a challenge to set up but I think it would be fun and interesting.
4-n it’s actually a test we use internally from time to time. Often when we have corporate visits or “outside” industry visits. We have an A and a B bike, setup exactly as you say, then we make the non cyclists ride both and have them give feedback on which bike rode the smoothest.
Very cool. Would make a good GCN does science video:)
I have gold jockey wheels... The bling factor created an extra 5W.
A day that it didn't Rain in...February, March ? in Holstebro...Rare! Glad to see you finally had a tour of the place :)
What can we say, Dan brought the fair British weather with him...
Oh yes, british and Danish weather is very much the same. Legit only had sunny days since like 10th of April dating back to like November.
We had the umbrellas at the ready but thankfully they were not needed 😊
:D Haha, stand in Umbrellas why not! That showcase bike is not meant for rain anyway.
I just can't justify paying $479 USD for a ceramic BB with coated bearings. I'm sure CeramicSpeed BBs are good, but they cost at least double what they should.
I saw this interesting video an engineer made showing that ceramic bearings aren’t all they’re cracked up to be and often much more expensive and sometimes producing more friction. Most of the friction comes from the seal and cage with only about 2 percent coming from the actual ball it self, they will also wear the cups out more quickly because they are harder than steel which leads to a shorter life span. m.ruclips.net/video/o7iZVfSDbiA/видео.html
good video! getting a little dated now though. i didn't hear him talk about magnetic bearings!
@@Baigle1
Do you have anything relevant to come with? Besides just putting out some bullshit about magnetic bearings without backing anything up? The video isn't outdated at all as ceramic bearings are still being sold at ridiculous prices, when they will wear out faster and perform worse in the longer run.
This is an eye opener. Well done. I really enjoyed this video. Thanx.
Was planning to get ceramic speed... but only bought tripeak due to budget constraint
Correction: at approximately 4:20 in the video you stated that the tolerance on the bearings was "2.5 microns, or 0.00025". That is incorrect. 2.5 microns = 0.0025: you were off by a factor of ten. If the tolerance really is 0.00025 then that would be 0.25 microns.
If I worked there I’d start doing stupid upgrades just cause. My office chair would roll like crazy on those ceramic speed bearings
Here's a caveat about Ceramic Speed BB bearings, if your BB shell isn't created to the same precision as the bearings you don't gain any benefit.
Awesome vid!
Cheers Brandon!
Thoroughly enjoyed Matt's laugh, the Wig will be missed. Who else can teach us how to pour a beer properly??? Matt, please submit some indoor training videos in the future, your commentary makes an extra challenge not to chuckle while in an effort!
I would have liked a couple minutes of the "wall of products". Please do a B roll
Love the tech. Great video!
Hello, I'm wondering if it's better to push your limit in the big ride of the week or to do a ride a little bit easier in order to do more training during the week? If may be interesting to do a video about this subject
Djd Njddk I think that it's better to ride a few everyday but doing an explosive training.
All very impressive however hambini burst the ceramic bearing bubble in his show with Jonny tech in just a brief calculation
I fell for it in my early riding days - have a ceramicspeed bottom bracket, but after watching hambini NTN non contact seals for any future bearings …. Unless I make it into a Tour de France team, then 🙄
❤️ Awesome! I think I speak for almost all those who ride CeramicSpeed, until you ride the products, it’s hard to appreciate just how good they are.
Helle Frederiksen it's unfortunate that it's all in your head. They have done independent testing and the results are not at all good. No better than high quality steel bearings. And as a bike Mechanic I have taken enough Ceramic Speed bearings out of bikes to know they don't last all that Long. Certainly not long enough to justify them being 10x more expensive than steel bearings. You see the hard Ceramic balls chip when hit and the ball hardness leads to them wearing out the steel races faster.
Hey Reginald! I may be a complex human being, but I’m not crazy 😂 there’s no mistaking a fully upgraded drivetrain with CS, is far smoother and “easier” to pedal. I think a lot of mechanics encounter a poor experience with low quality ceramics and then throw a blanket over CeramicSpeed. These balls do not chip!
Reginald Scot its been proven many times 🤷♂️
Conpare dura ace ceramic bearing to ceramic speed or sram etap ceramic bearings to. Eramic speed you soon see how good ceramic speed is
I run then and there leaps and bounds ahead
Helle, while I don't know if CS bearings are better than traditional high quality steel bearings, I think you should mention that CS is one of your support partners. Just to allow people to see the full picture when you praise a product.
Hi Jesper. Thanks for the input. I actually didn’t feel it to be relevant in this case, but maybe it is. I believe athletes who authentically use and standby a product shouldn’t have to inform they are supported. Too often people assume a supported athlete is not an honest athlete, and that I would like to avoid.
use bearings that have metal cages and non contact seals, just as fast, last way longer and much cheaper. check out hambini he tests the life span of bottom brackets and Ceramic speed won't submit one for test.
They won’t dare send him one because he would eat their pseudo science up for lunch and they know it. Con artist products like this that are backed by non scientific con artist claims can only survive if they maintain a pool of gullible fools to sell their snake oil wares to. That pretty much sums up their ceramic bearing customer base at this point. As PT Barnum used to say, “there’s a sucker born every minute”!! 😃
Very good quality.
Have them in my bottom bracket but maybe i will install industrial bearings like SKF next time again, not sure of it. You need to apply grease to them every 6 months so you need to take everything apart and that's 80-90% of the effort of replacing the bearings by new ones so the question for me personally is if the price is worth the 20-10% effort saving. And not only the effort but also having frequent components failures on a bike is just annoying. So I bought them because i hoped they lasted longer than the default bearings fitted, not so much for the power savings (and yes i still don't have any problems with them so no this is not a comment on the product itself).
Ok, here's the script for today's show, Lloydy.
Dan [complete deadpan]: "pretty excited about today..."
Can we say that the best part of the tour is Dan's strong hair game?!
No but seriously it was Dan's hair...
Actually I think just seeing what the bearings are made of and looking at the hall with the very real world comparison of what a difference a good low friction bearing can do does bring it into contrast. Wish that the jockey wheels didn't look so hidious otherwise they would be a very appealing prospect!
We'll pass on the compliments to Dan's hairdresser.
Did they mention what type of machine specifically they used to create the 3D printed jockey wheels? Powder bed, Direct energy deposition, etc.?
Nice chain keeper at 10:05 :)
Very interesting, thank you.
Debunked by Hambini.
So how did you like the velomobile?
THE LOVELY LADIES WORKING THOSE BEARINGS!!!
Very nice. Would be nice to speak to some of the people though!
do another one on sram shimano and other brands like specialized
maybe after this pandemic i will upgrade my bike, i want to change some parts specially rd crankset
Nice tour! Great product. True fine artisan work. No way 5 watts will make a difference for me (5 kgs would ;-) ) but the products themselves are a work of art.
Cheers, glad you enjoyed the tour!
I way on this planet their bearings lead to anything that remotely approaches a 5 watt savings either! The pseudo science claims of CS seem to appeal to many! 😊
DA pedals must have CS bearings, they're soo smooth...
Maybe CeramicSpeed could help Dan out! You could see the gears grinding in Dan’s head with the lag in his speech, his eyes glazing over, and the smoke coming out of his ears when he was trying to remember the numbers on the ball bearings.
For the price they should be making the bearing races out of silicon nitride too.
Drive that bike!
Isnt Ceramic Speed bearings factory in Taiwan.....?