I again and again quote my favorite movie line: "it takes courage to care". I feel like a lot of people are too scared of becoming the butt of the joke to take anything seriously. We're just a bunch of cynical conwards trying to get whatever validation we can at the expense of people we have no personal attachment to at this point. I'm at the stage when I feel respect for people who are considered cringe solely for being genuinely and openly excited about stuff.
10000% that is the absolute most important astute point of this video the rest of this is feedback specific to the channel/creator: a) you clearly are very intelligent and contemplative, with a genuine sensibility that approaches this topic with authentic care and consideration 👍 das good b) some of that gets lost in the lack of linear logic of explaining the point of the info, however; which could be a stylistic choice of employing a more candid stream-of-consciousness, but I found it a little tricky to really have specific take-aways of a concise idea beyond “people be acting up in comments too much, and das not good… “ 👆which is funny because there is a lot of good points shared, with anecdotal examples and what not, almost as if too many without enough concise focus… I guess it’s just a stylistic thing where it was a more ‘feeler’ expression of the topic rather than pragmatic logical explanation c) so in conclusion, I would just like to reiterate some of the LOGICAL observations you made - which I think account for the main comment section phenomenon 1. people comment without watching the whole video, OR ‘just here for the comments’ is simply the digital public square and the “video content” can often be reduced to a fleeting topic of convo for the masses to chat about 👆specifically in regard to responding to absurdity with absurdity, which an unsettling majority of “content” is vapidly trivial and mainly just attention seeking 2. along the same lines about the digital public square - even if the content actually qualifies as thought-provoking, again still the same holds true that the comment section is simply a proverbial meeting grounds wherein the masses seek the interactive experience amongst each other, as much if not more importantly than just the consumption of static content by itself etc etc etc … I think that is pretty much the basic logic of what goes on in the comment section. the content is often reduced merely to being a topic of conversation for the meeting grounds where people enjoy the shared experience of connection and jokes… the end the one specific personal anecdote that I found truly novel and fascinating was how Chandler represented a certain understanding of a western archetype for you… that was a very interesting cultural point 👍 ps I think a lot of people liked the “don’t look up” movie that you were ironically hating on at the end … 🤔
it reminds me of how sometimes i’ll see a majority of comments responding to other comments that are supposedly rude, but i can’t find the rude ones they’re referring to (if that makes sense)
And this is not happening only online. I notice this behavior in my friends (and even myself). It has become acceptable among really young people to be rude and ironic out of nothing, even with people who you like. But of course, there are limits in real life. I have a friend who became so insufferable with her negative comments about everyone and everything that's hard to have a conversation with her. She thinks it's cool to be so sarcastic and negative and she won't change. I'm starting to keep a certain distance cause I can't stand her anymore.
Right??? It's like some people think they live in a sitcom and blurt out joke after joke after snarky comment. In real life, this doesn't earn you any award for the coolest person in the room, it just makes it difficult to interact with you. In the age of memes and internet/pop culture, it's easy to be quippy and sarcastic, and all the more honorable not to go for the low-hanging fruit and actually make an effort to connect, be vulnerable, and listen.
@@accordingtoalina as a 41 year old woman who has been very blunt my whole life, there is a way to do so, and a difference, that doesn't make someone feel bad. And, even then, some people just can't stand being faced with their own image in the mirror. Being blunt allows you to determine who you can trust and have on your team quicker. If they are not open to any criticism or critiquing whatsoever (and most people aren't), then that's a person you really don't want on your team. Of course, I'm not talking about random YT comments from strangers, though. It's a conversation that deserves more nuance.
I've seen so many people say, "It's not being rude, it's be brutally honest." I have also seen people straight up say they should bring back bullying. When did being kind and considerate to people go out of style? When did it become cringe to follow the rules I learned in pre-school? "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all." and "treat others as you would want to be treated." It's sad how little people follow those anymore.
“Bring back bullying” is the shit people who weren’t bullied say. It never stopped. They don’t fully appreciate how detrimental bullying is because they either went under the radar, or they were the bullies at
And you know those are the same people who if someone was rude to them or bullied them, they'd be the loudest saying how "everyone's being mean to me."
A lot of people have and were nice to others but the than got stomped on by people who know felt entitled and righteous. People could once disagree with each and have discourse with no bad feelings but that changed and now all push back labeled as "hate speech" or other heavy language when I reality is just criticism. Everything got turned up a notch by people who lack the social skills and awareness that light discourse and criticism is not actual hate or meanness.
@@Gloomdrake It's probably also said by people who were bullies themselves and want to convince themselves that what the did to others was actually "Good."
I think a lot of people feel it's too vulnerable to be sincere. Even to sincerely enjoy things without being critical. It's sad. Also thank you for the term micro fringe - I didn't know I needed that word but I absolutely did
I think you made such an important point, Alina, about the rise of anti-intellectualism. I always feel that the president-elect when describing himself as the 'smartest', the 'best', and the 'most successful' does so whilst trolling those who really are the smartest etc. That anti-intellectualism, lack of seriousness and use of trolling and 'it was a joke' approach has now been normalised and promoted by the most powerful man on earth.
The orange man has an effective method of diplomacy with foreign countries, which Id have to argue it really does make him the best man for the position hes going into. But he is not 'normalising' the behavior amongst people, Americans have always been like that. Technology has been contributing to troll culture more than the orange. Media also plays a hand at excaserbating it as well too.
6 дней назад+32
Work in customer service, you will quickly understand that people are overwhelmingly unpleasant to deal with.
The thing about the comment section being different for the same video blew my mind. Like am I surprised that instagram did this, but I never thought that the “for you” concept would go this far. The idea of a “true” commonly shared reality is truly dead.
Arguably it always has been, especially before the printing press was invented. We were enjoying a brief stint of time where mostly everyone followed the same sources and trusted those sources, when historically that has never universally been the case. I feel like we go through information upheavals that have profound knock-on effects everytime we invent a new communication medium. Printing press? Enabled the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment movement, which resulted in a period of war and upheaval for many nations. Telegragh? Enabled the quickening of Native American persecution and helped enable to situations that led to WW1 being what it was. Television? Led to the fairness doctrine era of top-down low-salience information sharing and arguably helped lead to the post-1989 rules based international order we all grew up in. It also led to alot of informational control in countries like Germany, Spain, Russia, and China during the 20th century. In my opinion, Social Media has caused another upheaval, and were living through it. We dont know what the end result is, and I think that subconciously terrifies alot of people.
I feel so vindicated that people are finally picking up on this trend. I've been thinking about it for a while and have been told I'm being too sensitive and "what do you expect, it's the internet duh". Ok well I actually don't find it normal for people to be so unnecessarily rude and cynical for no reason
It’s a little scary, because I remember this exact phenomenon back in the early-mid 2010s. This might not be something that can be…fixed? It might just be an endless cycle we’ll always have to deal with.
This can also apply to being a woman in gaming spaces too man like people will strong arm you into taking casual abuses from others like Why tf is this so normalized. Can we just be nice n play the game Im so tired
Although I completely agree with the ironic response epidemic in comment sections, I actually remember this being a thing before social media - specifically as an American preteen/teen. I remember not feeling like I could have deep conversations, or if I liked something like a specific singer or book, or shared a song, it was discussed with only my closest friends because everyone else would be like “I don’t get it” and would make jokes about it. Americans are very uncomfortable with what they don’t know and the auto response is self deprecation or making a quippy response. Instead of inquiring or looking things up, the it’s more common that people will pretend they know or pretend it doesn’t matter, even though it matters to you. But this has spread so intensely online it feels like even intentionally positive comments are a joke with no depth. Or they’re flattering without any kind of real feedback. I feel for artists who crave the experience of seeing their art being openly, expressively appreciated instead of seeing a quip.
This is very interesting. I work with 12-14 year olds. I have for the past 10 years. I have noticed a massive and troubling shift in how they speak and relate to eachother. In the past 2-3 years they have gone from a little snarky to flat out viscous. Girls call eachother bit*h, who*re, stupid, and they're best friends. Boys are just as bad. Its gotten to where, if you give them a legitimate compliment on something they did and you are being genuinely kind. They will react aggressively or severely offended. They call you a liar and begin to degrade themselves and make the conversation as negative as possible. If they cant have a competition over who has had the most abusive upbringing, they just trauma dump until they start trying one upping eachother. Its so depressing its hard to even want to engage with them in the first place. No matter how positive or light hearted you try to be, they will find a way to make the conversation miserable. You: "Good morning Tyler, how was your weekend?" Tyler "It was good, but I just remembered my moms cat died when she was in school and I just cant get past it." You: "Oh Tyler, Im sorry to hear that. Do you have cat at home that is older or sick?" Tyler: "No? Why?" 😐 You:"Emily, your bird house it beautiful, you're very talented." Emily:"You shouldnt get excited over a dumb ugly bird house, you dont know how other people are feeling and what they are thinking. You should really think before you talk to people because you can make them uncomfortable." 😶
@accordingtoalina the irony of it all is that mental health and emotional health is supposed to the key to happy children. Yet these children who 4 years ago, would be mentally and emotionally stable according to their age, are now intentionally seeking out things to make themselves depressed. The are actually searching for anything negative to feel comfortable or relevant in their own lives.
And oh this issue of anti-intellectualism as a symptom of fomo is so true and so funny. because it's so funny to open the comments of a letterboxd video for example (a platform focused on movies and cinema) and read people accusing a director or actor of talking about a specific movie to sound smart when having some knowledge about cinema is basically a part of their job
Girl I feel that. I got that crap when I used english to Talk about my Uni classes. Im German, so we're talking Germany. My Sister and dad specifically, both of whom speak english, would ask me about Uni, about lectures and assignments, and THEN lay into me for using english vocabulary to Talk about it. Because "cant you speak Like a normal Person or do you have to move to Berlin?" The Kicker? My Majors were english and Media studies. English was obviously.... In English. They would ask me about linguistics Modules that I just cannot discuss in standard German. Because my major is english. So thats the terminology I know. In the end i simply stopped talking about Uni at Home, except to mention the odd good Grade or Deadline i Had coming Up.
@annabeinglazy5580 Thanks for sharing I feel so seen right now. I just don't understand what my problem is with that language. I can understand people easily, but it's so hard for me to express my own thoughts
I used to frequent a political-oriented blog which had its own rule for commenting: people were limited to 3 comments per post. I think this went some way to reducing online abuse: a key aspect of flame wars is the desire to get the last word as a form of victory. By rationing discourse, each comment is increased in value, and the poster has to think if he wants to expend his assets on *this*. No one is going to post "First!" or "Don't care" or pedantic grammar corrections if they know that that will be the limit of what they can contribute.
Sadly, this will probably never be implemented on a wide scale because sites like RUclips want "engagement" - more comments means more ad views and money in their pocket. On that note if they really cared about the quality of discourse they would have more even-handed moderation instead of allowing alt-right trolls and pornbots to run wild while moderating innocent comments and demonetizing people for nebulous reasons.
The video with the comment section being tailored is really interesting. That‘s one more reason in my opinion why we should try to consume less on the internet. Don‘t get me wrong, I love the internet for so many things, but I really try to avoid getting „sucked“ into it for too long because it can be a really toxic place and bring out the worst in people. Unfortunately we are also living in a world where being nice is considered „boring“ and for some reason being „boring“ seems to be a bad thing, because you need excitement in your life. I personally think it‘s the opposite, I embrace it, it gives me so much peace.
i really really liked this video. i've been feeling this way for a while and notice myself getting pissed off with takes i find unnecessarily mean, so it's nice to feel validated about that. but this video also highlighted some ways that i have also tried to be the funny guy or been snarky for likes, and made me realize the times i've been hypocritical about what i preach
Don’t beat yourself up about it - I’m making use of irony and sarcasm in this very video as well, because it’s so ingrained in the way we speak. And also, sometimes it’s useful and fun!! Let’s not forget that using metaphorical or hypebolic language here and there is completely normal. It’s only a problem when taken to extremes.
Even though not a lot of people are talking about this, I'm so glad more people are noticing this. I thought I was going crazy while looking at comment sections being brutal to the creator of the post. It feels unreal. Being fourteen and seeing people who are almost ADULTS say these things is bizarre 😞.
Reminds me of how some people dismiss social justice movements as mere virtue signaling, unfortunately I used to abuse the usage of the term 'virtue signaling'...
To be fair, virtue-signaling is a major issue in those movements in any case, and I think it’s worth mentioning that making weirdly smug comments about broad groups of people is something that virtue-signalers are often guilty of at least as much as anyone else. Just look at the ongoing Israel-Palestine violence issue: people who passionately support both sides of that are so prone to doing this that it makes having an actual rational, fact-based discussion on the issue all but impossible for anybody.
really glad i don't have tt or use reels very much, mostly on tumblr these days and saw her post and totally agreed! after not having it for a while i realized how the pros of it outweigh the cons and my days feel much longer!♥︎
I think the biggest issue might be the blurring of ages on the internet. People in their 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s and teens are all together in this crock-pot where some have aged past making certain comments but a majority are still kids who have not. Not everyone who's 25+ is mature obviously but some comments from teenagers trying to pass off as adults may contribute to the meanness.
I genuinely think about this every time someone leaves me a wannabe clever comment and I feel like saying something equally wannabe witty... so I really want to be arguing with 15 year olds at my old age?
I think this might be one of the biggest reasons people in their 20s and 30s are so difficult to be around now. Everyone has been brought down to the level of rotten teens. I’m 27 and I find it really difficult to make new friends because everyone’s so negative that I just don’t want to be around them. Celebrating our differences isn’t a thing anymore because everyone’s been effectively brainwashed into being openly critical of everything ALL THE TIME. You can’t like something that someone else doesn’t care for without being made fun of directly to your face.
I think it has more to do with social media and the relative anonymity of the Internet than anything. Physical age does not necessarily correlate to mental age, I’ve been part of different gaming communities (a hobby known for the toxicity of its most toxic members), and in that case I’ve seen more toxic 26-40+ year olds than teens honestly. I think it has more to do with the worst kind of people of all ages feeling free to vent their frustrations on others with little fear of consequences.
Agree, yeah toxic people exist and they can become rude for simple making the smallest comment/critic, but there're still people who straight up will say the most diabolical thing and called you soft if you get offended
It's really simple. It's easier to laugh than to feel. We're all online trying to avoid feeling the world crushing around us. It's why everyone jokes but no one talks.
Point taken, but it’s ok to cry IF the need arises. It’s quite alright to experience the FULL measure of one’s humanity. Peace to you & yours, respect. 🙏🏽
Hello Alina, First off: thank you for making this thoughtful video. This is a huge subject and several of your points are reasons why I generally never comment on anything online. I would like to add a thought to the discussion by asking if you've ever read or heard of a book called "Amusing ourselves to death"? In short summary the author argues that when the medium changed from text to television (with regard to the main way of spreading information) we largely lost the ability to reflect on the information in favour of entertainment. As television then and RUclips/Instagram/TikTok now are visual mediums there really is no encouragement to pause and reflect on what is being said. Clips are judged on how good they are at keeping your attention. Boring/slow/nuanced = bad. Short/quick/shallow=good. Pairing this idea with the question why some of us prefer to just be mean for entertainments sake feels natural to me. Why wouldn't one say the "funny" thing for attention? (And I personally would guess that judgemental humour is the more universal humour.) Thoughtful comments take time and effort and will not get you as much attention or appreciation.
I get the impression that a disdainful attitude is what remains when one is on the brink of helplessness regarding how to act, and one cannot find the understandable and trustworthy part of reality. Others know and can, but one does not know how to achieve such a thing.
I feel you. Everyone is fake. It's the two sides of a coin: Fakeness from the overly "nice" people who just want something out of us vs the cynical, crude, & rude people online who think that they're being more "real" by being a jack🫏 Both are fake and scared to face their true feelings and insecurities.
The polarizing comments make so much sense. I guess I never really thought about it. Its right in front of our faces too, the "Where are all the mean comments people are talking about?" or "Why are there no mean comments?" (That one also contributes to the idea that were so used to cynicism/snark) I mean, its already done with our ads and the videos or posts recommended to us...why not comments?
Hi Alina! This is the first video I've seen of yours; it was recommended to me on the homepage, and I wanted to (in all sincerity) write and say thank you for putting this out there. I've been, for a long time, working on trying to stop turning to humour and irony the moment I become uncomfortable. I've always struggled with sincerity and this was a strong reminder of its importance. I especially appreciated your points about what growing up in the sitcom-on-repeat age must have done to our speech patterns. I've never heard that take before, and I know it's going to be on my mind now. I think that would be a great avenue for future research. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos in the future :)
Pervasive insincerity and dishonesty is why I strongly dislike so much of what social media represents. It's also why people comparing themselves to others on social media is so detrimental - so much of it is a well-polished facade. Ironically, I think that's why so many people are unhappy - despite being more "connected" than ever, in terms of genuine conversation and human connection, we're more isolated than at any point in human history.
If you're interested in learning more about the trolling thing and the culture around the internet right now I would recommend the book Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates. It's more specifically about the manosphere but it takes a lot about how it is shaped by the internet culture and how it moves from the internet to real life. I will just warn that some of the content is quite shocking and can sometimes feel like it's lacking commentary for its examples
People seem to be so mean to me online like legit … once I told someone what OCD was and everyone attacked me for it told me I talk to much, stfu, I’m wrong , ect… I used the dsm5 for the legit meaning of OCD because people were making up crap about it yet IM THE ONE being yelled at IM the one being “bullied.
Maybe people are more lonely, leading lives that are full of anxiety for the future ,money problems, and generally being more sad and disillusioned. So when they see others be happy and thrive and making their dreams come true, like a content creator, they lash out in jealousy, because it is easier to criticize and ridicule that take responsibility for yourself and the choices you made in your life and actually try to change and make your dreams come true. Consider this: happy and content people are busy leading happy and content lives. Sad ,discontent and feeling like a failure people on the other hand are the ones who moan and complain.
Yesss, people were definitely like wait, weren’t you the queen of online irony?? I find it interesting that she wrote that considering that so many of her instagram lives/ general fan interactions are so saturated with absurdity. I wonder if it’s an age thing and she’s growing out of that “phase” or if the irony thing is fun for a while and then gets tiring for everyone
@ I can’t speak for anyone but i have to admit some minority of trans women originally found themselves on 4chan (hellscape of irony and bigotry if you ask me) and some of them are huge jerks. frankly Ethel I think spent at least some time there. I think she’s probably “growing out of it” but more like she’s been away from that space long enough now she’s realizing most people aren’t like that nor find it amusing
I've been following your channel for quite a while and it just occurred to me, while I was typing a comment about how disheartening it can be to express any sort of opinion online, that I've never actually commented that I really love watching your videos. I love how you pick your topics and how you build your arguments :) Greetings from a fellow Romanian who also grew up with unrestricted access to Western cartoons and TV shows, it's good to have you here.
As a person who likes internet brain rot and also reads classical literature, essays, and other so-called 'intellectual' stuff. I don't really know what to say!
i watched this whole video, gave it some thought, and then clicked away to watch paul mescal hot ones (lol) and immediately noticed the phenomenon you were talking about, where the comment section is just a competition to have the funniest quippiest reference or thirst comment. back here just to think out loud about what you said about disinhibition. i think it goes both ways where people feel comfortable saying silly/goofy/unserious stuff to brand/company accounts because you're not thinking of it as a person on the other end of the comments. but then influencers blur the line between being a real person and being a brand. and then i think it trickles down to any random reel that ppl come across, they feel comfortable saying whatever because it's just entertainment/commodity. idk just food for thought, thanks for an interesting video!
On the topic of the effects of TV on linguistics: I highly recommend the book Slayer Slang by Michael Adams. It’s about Buffy the Vampire Slayer’s linguistics. And it’s also a really fascinating tracking of online fandom in the late 90s and early 2000s. He included not just language from the show, but also language invented on fan forums. And idk it’s just a fun time! 10/10 recommend
Very interesting points! I live in Lithuania and also noticed in news articles about influencers very rude comments, not just "who the h are you, no one cares, etc" but like really nasty comments. But I came to conclusion that most people write bad comments and those who don't have an opinion, or agree, don't express it so much.
always happy to see a video of yours pop up on my yt :] idk how relevant to the topic this is, but i often feel like people demand celebrities to have extreme opinions in order to bash them/ extremely agree with them. i often see an actor for example making a political comment (most often about a situation they know nothing about, really), and then the media promotes that comment more than any movie they have been in. feels like everyone's a politician as of lately. (this has it's positives, such as the fact we get to hear a variety of opinions, but even then it feels like one opinion gets promoted more than the other based on your algorithm, so idk how good this actually is). love your vids!
I don't respond to outrageous posts online because I assume that it's meant to stir shit and the poster is not interested in a genuine conversation. Avoiding social media helps too.
I was attracted to the title, saw the timing, and thought, "fuck, no" (don't judge too harshly: it's late and I just opened YT to listen to some music before sleep), but ended up happily watching the whole thing... which is impressive for a ramble-y monologue! Anyway, I optimistically (?) imagine this resonates with a lot of people. Thanks.
18:05 like when Cillian Murphy was up for an Oscar and people were making him sound like a brand new actor who "finally got noticed" when he's been in PB for ten years and had been in serval box office hots before that 😭 he's been known in the UK for years and i thought the US but sooooo many people just assumed because they haven't seen him Nolan just found a random Irish man on the street for his movie 😭 And this is still western media too which makes it weirder as well
I blame tt, the amount of young people that spend so much time on that app that it has completely rotted their brains and they've forgotten how to be normal individuals. Sorry not sorry tt heads
What Virginia Woolf would have responded to Cicero, a quote directly plucked from her collection of essays called Granite and Rainbow. " We can see that there are many books, and we are frequently told that everyone can write nowadays. That may be true; yet we do not doubt that at the heart of this immense volubility, this flood and foam of language, this irreticence and vulgarity and triviality, there lies the heat of some great passion which only needs the accident of a brain more happily turned than the rest to issue in a shape which will last from age to age. It should be our delight to watch this turmoil, to do battle with the ideas and visions of our time, to seize what we can use, to kill what we consider worthless, and above all to realize that we must be generous to the people who are giving shape as best they can to the ideas within them. No age of literature is so little submissive to authority as ours, so free from the dominion of the great; none seems so wayward with its gift of reverence, or so volatile in its experiments." p. 29
I'm going to start by apologizing because English is not my first language and I don't know if I'll be able to articulate my thoughts in a coherent way. But I would go further and call this "epidemic of irony" an "epidemic of cynicism" in general. Because this is on every corner of the internet. I've seen/received this kind of aggressively chronically online response into simpler pots like regular tweets giving opinions on movies or in more serious situations, like when I tweeted saying "Hey maybe it's not funny to turn a video of Taylor Swift's ex participating in a campaign against the genocide of the Palestinian people, in a tweet trying to make a joke about which Taylor Swift's boyfriend is more attractive"
I think also this is why its hard to find stuff made thats new and daring even in small spaces. People are scared of beig considered cringe and it stifles creativity, they try to check boxes with diversity and tropes but the stories are the same, and maybe brush someone gutst they don't go full in because everyone needs to be "cool"
A lot of people have and were nice to others but the than got stomped on by people who know felt entitled and righteous. People could once disagree with each and have discourse with no bad feelings but that changed and now all push back labeled as "hate speech" or other heavy language when in reality its just criticism. Everything got turned up a notch by people who lack the social skills and awareness that light discourse and criticism is not actual hate or meanness.
I've got to know about Terry Pratchett in 2019, however I grew up reading Susanna Tamaro and Jules Verne. I also have American accent because I'm a pirate since I was 15, leeched tons of tv shows' torrents. English becoming lingua franca is quite recent actually, before that it was French, Panait Istrati wrote in French for instance; I think millenials are the first generation in Europe who speak English fluently as international language.
Sorry if I’m doing this same thing but omg I’ve been wondering since I started watching why you had an American accent. A low level mystery that has been bothering me for months lol
I would argue that one of the huge problems is that we've got it backwards - a lot of the shitposters and right wing types take nothing seriously but take themselves way too seriously and are very thin-skinned. Generally, I think, as a writer and teacher but just as a person, it's best to take your work seriously and sinerely but not take yourself too seriously that you can't laugh at yourself. I spent decades trying to be liked, and it doesn't work, so I just try to be authnetic with myself now and it works for my writing and teaching and public speaking.
ALSO if you say something that isn’t true for someone else instead them going “ really? Where are you from? I’ve never seen this?!” And having a normal convo they get mean the curse they call you names they degrade you… I’ve seen people fight and get so mean over someone saying “ Walmart doesn’t sell bags anymore” in some locations they don’t carry bags at all, some are plastic and some are paper but because someone dared to say “ Walmart doesn’t sell bags” everyone went and bullied them like crazy like 40 comments arguing rudely instead of just having a Brian and going “ this might be a location thing! My Walmart has bags” but then I decided to comment this and someone told me how dumb I am being “theirs in fact does NOT sell bags” like ok I just said it’s location to location?!” People have called me a drug addict, a whore, a corpse, to KMS ect ect over things like WALMART BAGS it’s absolutely insane !
I think the irony epidemic has a lot to do with the likes system that most websites employ. It becomes a contest to see who can say the funniest or most rude thing possible and harvest the most likes because nothing gets the dopamine flowing than having a ton of people upvote or like your shit. Its validating in a way. Its why the term dont feed the trolls was born.
I've recently noticed that the scent of internet culture (partic on social media) seems to be snark, sass, sarcasm, smart-assery and sardonicism. It's cool to be all these things on the internet and it shapes the cultural landscape to a fault. It's kinda low-key sad. I miss the era of RUclips when being genuinely excited about the things you love wasn't considered 'cringe'.
I generally feel rather inhibited when it comes to commenting on your videos, Alina, because there's always a lot of matters arising and it's difficult to be selective and succinct. For the same reason I feel that I at least owe you a thank you, and it's tempting to leave it at that. What does strike me as a Brit whose sense of humour is founded on irony, bathos and litotes is that there's rather a dearth of elegant passive aggression online, and most of these mean comments deploy a bludgeon rather than a rapier. Old school polite insults with a ten second delay fuse are far more amusing to concoct if one has nothing nice to say. Anyway, thank you, Alina. 🙂
I wish Ethel Cain wouldn’t have apologized, nothing was wrong with that quote. The constant joking IS fucking irritating. It’s just masking because peoples’ inability to expand their intellectual range. It’s a copout for having to truly receive or discuss an emotion or topic. Also, this is all perpetuated by the rise of the comic. This is so important as an observational reality. Comedians are literally some of the top celebrities right now, which is wild because that’s not how it used to be. Joe Rogan, Theo Von, this is the top social sphere. I love comedy, shit I love Theo Von, but their injection into the overall intellectual space as social LEADERS is grooming people to basically operate solely like comedians because we model our behavior by people we look up to. And the comedians we have in this top echelon are not just enjoyable, they genuinely either mask all emotions through humor or tear people apart in clever quippy ways. It’s a little harsher of a space honestly. And not that every comedian is like this, but the reality is most comedians do this because of trauma. So we end up with a bunch of people acting traumatically undeveloped.
Well we're chonrically online have a goldfish memory, therefore 1 comment needs to be 3 (I do that, because otherwise forget) and allegedy there are now 1-1,5 Gens who had social Media as 1 of their (Step-)parents. Maybe if the World is enternally stuck in High School the Internet is eternally Middle school? 🤔 🤔
It's bc of neo liberalism, austerity,also anonymity in the online space. Have a materialist pov of the world not some idealistic wishy washy vibe based "analysis"
An online acquinatance once posted on St. Patty's day "today we celebrate driving the pagans out of Ireland. Huzzah! F_ck the pagans!" knowing full well I am a casual neopagan/occult dabbler (he is a militant atheist, and has a history of saying callous things to me about my beliefs/interests which he'd then pass off as trying to "help" me somehow...yeah right.) I never lost my cool and wrote a rather in-depth response telling him exactly why I object to his joke, and the massive issue I take with Christianity and atheism being seen as "normal" and polytheism/Buddhism/New Age/etc. seen as the "other," and how such double standards seem to me like the product of a Christian missionary culture. His only response was a tasteless non sequiter dirty joke riffing on the word "missionary." Which kind of proved my point. I actually wrote a second piece trying to explain myself further but his only response to that was "[throws tacos at you]."
As an atheist myself, that seems like a really weird thing for an atheist to say given that the whole point of St. Patrick eliminating paganism was that he wanted everyone to be Christian. Whereas pagans, especially ones from less developed societies, have not been known to be particularly interested in that kind of aggressive evangelism for the most part. Meaning that if he had lived back then, he probably would’ve fared better among pagans than among the Christians who sought to stamp out their beliefs.
@@eeyorehaferbock7870 Yeah he was probably an outlier, because he seemed to think "well all religions are equally make-believe," like I should stop being butthurt about my supposed fairy tale being insulted by another's fairy tale. From my experience IRL atheists are much more reasonable than their online counterparts, and I only ever knew this guy online.
The bob clip makes me recall something from 'community'. I don't recall the precise quote, but it's to the effect of 'don't go fishing if you aren't prepared to catch a boot'.
"Most of the time they are American"... Actually, no. And that's part of the problem. It allows so many to skirt responsibility and point blame elsewhere while simultaneously participating in the same behavior they accuse others of doing when they are no different.
I think it's definitely not only americans, but check out Karolina Żebrowska's video "How i got wrecked online for my Brigerton event outfit". All of the mean comments on her vids seemed to appear at a specific time, specifically when americans weren't sleeping. They also seemed to be mostly coming from kids. She also shared a study which suggests that there's a big cyber-bullying problem in USA and also India. It's very curious why that is like this for those countries.
I know that America usually contributes to this behavior because we're literally culturally told and taught about how awesome we are and the best country in the world and how other countries need our help or look up to us. I mean, we hardly ever even learn about other countries outside of us and when we do, it isn't usually in depth and moved on quickly.
Same honestly 💀😭😭 Ive never gone to the extreme of bullying, but i cant take anything seriously from a combination of not having any other way to cope and the general shift in the people around me to do this certain kind of thing
Good for you for having a family that's more important to you than the politics thereof. But sucks for you that you don't take politics seriously enough to understand where other people are coming from. Imagine telling people they have to love their families because you don't understand politics. You should probably seek me ral help.
I don’t take this video seriously. Obviously there’s trolling and probably an irony problem but I don’t think the connection was drawn or that either problems are correctly diagnosed. Connecting trolling to trump was a incredibly shallow analysis. It came across to as complaining about mildly snarky comments.
I again and again quote my favorite movie line: "it takes courage to care". I feel like a lot of people are too scared of becoming the butt of the joke to take anything seriously. We're just a bunch of cynical conwards trying to get whatever validation we can at the expense of people we have no personal attachment to at this point. I'm at the stage when I feel respect for people who are considered cringe solely for being genuinely and openly excited about stuff.
yes definitely agree! to be cringe is to be free
That really opens my eyes. Great quote and explanation, thanks for putting it in words perfectly!
@@cnj122000 "to be cringe is to be free" - never heard that one before, I'm stealing it.
What movie?
@@Z-FishInMyBreakfast Detachment
Even the comment section getting algorithmically sorted depending on who's looking at it is genuinely dystopian.
10000% that is the absolute most important astute point of this video
the rest of this is feedback specific to the channel/creator:
a) you clearly are very intelligent and contemplative, with a genuine sensibility that approaches this topic with authentic care and consideration
👍 das good
b) some of that gets lost in the lack of linear logic of explaining the point of the info, however; which could be a stylistic choice of employing a more candid stream-of-consciousness, but I found it a little tricky to really have specific take-aways of a concise idea beyond “people be acting up in comments too much, and das not good… “
👆which is funny because there is a lot of good points shared, with anecdotal examples and what not, almost as if too many without enough concise focus… I guess it’s just a stylistic thing where it was a more ‘feeler’ expression of the topic rather than pragmatic logical explanation
c) so in conclusion, I would just like to reiterate some of the LOGICAL observations you made - which I think account for the main comment section phenomenon
1. people comment without watching the whole video, OR ‘just here for the comments’ is simply the digital public square and the “video content” can often be reduced to a fleeting topic of convo for the masses to chat about
👆specifically in regard to responding to absurdity with absurdity, which an unsettling majority of “content” is vapidly trivial and mainly just attention seeking
2. along the same lines about the digital public square - even if the content actually qualifies as thought-provoking, again still the same holds true that the comment section is simply a proverbial meeting grounds wherein the masses seek the interactive experience amongst each other, as much if not more importantly than just the consumption of static content by itself
etc etc etc … I think that is pretty much the basic logic of what goes on in the comment section. the content is often reduced merely to being a topic of conversation for the meeting grounds where people enjoy the shared experience of connection and jokes… the end
the one specific personal anecdote that I found truly novel and fascinating was how Chandler represented a certain understanding of a western archetype for you… that was a very interesting cultural point 👍
ps I think a lot of people liked the “don’t look up” movie that you were ironically hating on at the end … 🤔
it reminds me of how sometimes i’ll see a majority of comments responding to other comments that are supposedly rude, but i can’t find the rude ones they’re referring to (if that makes sense)
@@xgrimesreaper This so much. I always wonder if they've been deleted by the time i see them because ive gone to the bottom and seen..none
And this is not happening only online. I notice this behavior in my friends (and even myself). It has become acceptable among really young people to be rude and ironic out of nothing, even with people who you like.
But of course, there are limits in real life. I have a friend who became so insufferable with her negative comments about everyone and everything that's hard to have a conversation with her. She thinks it's cool to be so sarcastic and negative and she won't change. I'm starting to keep a certain distance cause I can't stand her anymore.
Oh yes, I forgot to mention people who make being “blunt” their entire personality
@@accordingtoalinaSounds very like my late grandmother, but she was Dutch so it goes with the territory, lol.
Right??? It's like some people think they live in a sitcom and blurt out joke after joke after snarky comment. In real life, this doesn't earn you any award for the coolest person in the room, it just makes it difficult to interact with you. In the age of memes and internet/pop culture, it's easy to be quippy and sarcastic, and all the more honorable not to go for the low-hanging fruit and actually make an effort to connect, be vulnerable, and listen.
@@accordingtoalina as a 41 year old woman who has been very blunt my whole life, there is a way to do so, and a difference, that doesn't make someone feel bad.
And, even then, some people just can't stand being faced with their own image in the mirror.
Being blunt allows you to determine who you can trust and have on your team quicker. If they are not open to any criticism or critiquing whatsoever (and most people aren't), then that's a person you really don't want on your team. Of course, I'm not talking about random YT comments from strangers, though.
It's a conversation that deserves more nuance.
"when i was young, i played with invisible beings and shadows" absolutely sent me because it's so true
She’s just like me 😭
@@accordingtoalinaomg I love not even Emily she’s my favorite RUclipsr ever I really really like you for mentioning her buddy
Girl I was shocked seeing Emily on the intro she's funny af!!1!
I've seen so many people say, "It's not being rude, it's be brutally honest." I have also seen people straight up say they should bring back bullying.
When did being kind and considerate to people go out of style? When did it become cringe to follow the rules I learned in pre-school? "If you have nothing nice to say, don't say it at all." and "treat others as you would want to be treated." It's sad how little people follow those anymore.
“Bring back bullying” is the shit people who weren’t bullied say. It never stopped. They don’t fully appreciate how detrimental bullying is because they either went under the radar, or they were the bullies at
And you know those are the same people who if someone was rude to them or bullied them, they'd be the loudest saying how "everyone's being mean to me."
Thats the exact line my abusive ex used to use to make me believe the bs he was saying keep me in the relationship. Big red flag
A lot of people have and were nice to others but the than got stomped on by people who know felt entitled and righteous. People could once disagree with each and have discourse with no bad feelings but that changed and now all push back labeled as "hate speech" or other heavy language when I reality is just criticism. Everything got turned up a notch by people who lack the social skills and awareness that light discourse and criticism is not actual hate or meanness.
@@Gloomdrake It's probably also said by people who were bullies themselves and want to convince themselves that what the did to others was actually "Good."
I think a lot of people feel it's too vulnerable to be sincere. Even to sincerely enjoy things without being critical. It's sad. Also thank you for the term micro fringe - I didn't know I needed that word but I absolutely did
I think you made such an important point, Alina, about the rise of anti-intellectualism. I always feel that the president-elect when describing himself as the 'smartest', the 'best', and the 'most successful' does so whilst trolling those who really are the smartest etc. That anti-intellectualism, lack of seriousness and use of trolling and 'it was a joke' approach has now been normalised and promoted by the most powerful man on earth.
Giving him way too much credit in that last part, let's bring it down a notch
I’ve always felt this way too
And sadly, he was elected, proving how pervasive the anti-intellectualism/willful ignorance is in our country.
The orange man has an effective method of diplomacy with foreign countries, which Id have to argue it really does make him the best man for the position hes going into.
But he is not 'normalising' the behavior amongst people, Americans have always been like that. Technology has been contributing to troll culture more than the orange. Media also plays a hand at excaserbating it as well too.
Work in customer service, you will quickly understand that people are overwhelmingly unpleasant to deal with.
The thing about the comment section being different for the same video blew my mind. Like am I surprised that instagram did this, but I never thought that the “for you” concept would go this far.
The idea of a “true” commonly shared reality is truly dead.
Arguably it always has been, especially before the printing press was invented. We were enjoying a brief stint of time where mostly everyone followed the same sources and trusted those sources, when historically that has never universally been the case.
I feel like we go through information upheavals that have profound knock-on effects everytime we invent a new communication medium.
Printing press? Enabled the Protestant Reformation and the Enlightenment movement, which resulted in a period of war and upheaval for many nations.
Telegragh? Enabled the quickening of Native American persecution and helped enable to situations that led to WW1 being what it was.
Television? Led to the fairness doctrine era of top-down low-salience information sharing and arguably helped lead to the post-1989 rules based international order we all grew up in. It also led to alot of informational control in countries like Germany, Spain, Russia, and China during the 20th century.
In my opinion, Social Media has caused another upheaval, and were living through it. We dont know what the end result is, and I think that subconciously terrifies alot of people.
I feel so vindicated that people are finally picking up on this trend. I've been thinking about it for a while and have been told I'm being too sensitive and "what do you expect, it's the internet duh". Ok well I actually don't find it normal for people to be so unnecessarily rude and cynical for no reason
It’s a little scary, because I remember this exact phenomenon back in the early-mid 2010s. This might not be something that can be…fixed? It might just be an endless cycle we’ll always have to deal with.
This can also apply to being a woman in gaming spaces too man like people will strong arm you into taking casual abuses from others like Why tf is this so normalized. Can we just be nice n play the game Im so tired
Although I completely agree with the ironic response epidemic in comment sections, I actually remember this being a thing before social media - specifically as an American preteen/teen.
I remember not feeling like I could have deep conversations, or if I liked something like a specific singer or book, or shared a song, it was discussed with only my closest friends because everyone else would be like “I don’t get it” and would make jokes about it. Americans are very uncomfortable with what they don’t know and the auto response is self deprecation or making a quippy response. Instead of inquiring or looking things up, the it’s more common that people will pretend they know or pretend it doesn’t matter, even though it matters to you.
But this has spread so intensely online it feels like even intentionally positive comments are a joke with no depth. Or they’re flattering without any kind of real feedback. I feel for artists who crave the experience of seeing their art being openly, expressively appreciated instead of seeing a quip.
Like when someone expresses something good that happened to them and the response is only “love that for you” 💀💀💀
True. I recall this behavior being prevalent in my high school and my friend group 20 years ago.
This is very interesting. I work with 12-14 year olds. I have for the past 10 years. I have noticed a massive and troubling shift in how they speak and relate to eachother. In the past 2-3 years they have gone from a little snarky to flat out viscous. Girls call eachother bit*h, who*re, stupid, and they're best friends. Boys are just as bad. Its gotten to where, if you give them a legitimate compliment on something they did and you are being genuinely kind. They will react aggressively or severely offended. They call you a liar and begin to degrade themselves and make the conversation as negative as possible. If they cant have a competition over who has had the most abusive upbringing, they just trauma dump until they start trying one upping eachother. Its so depressing its hard to even want to engage with them in the first place. No matter how positive or light hearted you try to be, they will find a way to make the conversation miserable. You: "Good morning Tyler, how was your weekend?" Tyler "It was good, but I just remembered my moms cat died when she was in school and I just cant get past it." You: "Oh Tyler, Im sorry to hear that. Do you have cat at home that is older or sick?" Tyler: "No? Why?" 😐 You:"Emily, your bird house it beautiful, you're very talented." Emily:"You shouldnt get excited over a dumb ugly bird house, you dont know how other people are feeling and what they are thinking. You should really think before you talk to people because you can make them uncomfortable." 😶
Omg????
@accordingtoalina the irony of it all is that mental health and emotional health is supposed to the key to happy children. Yet these children who 4 years ago, would be mentally and emotionally stable according to their age, are now intentionally seeking out things to make themselves depressed. The are actually searching for anything negative to feel comfortable or relevant in their own lives.
“Irony is the song of a bird who has come to love it’s cage.” David Foster Wallace
Ooo, love that quote
Crazy that he was already lamenting the irony-poisoned state of culture 25+ years ago, and it’s just kept getting worse in the time since.
And oh this issue of anti-intellectualism as a symptom of fomo is so true and so funny. because it's so funny to open the comments of a letterboxd video for example (a platform focused on movies and cinema) and read people accusing a director or actor of talking about a specific movie to sound smart when having some knowledge about cinema is basically a part of their job
Leftists do not own intellectualism
Girl I feel that. I got that crap when I used english to Talk about my Uni classes. Im German, so we're talking Germany. My Sister and dad specifically, both of whom speak english, would ask me about Uni, about lectures and assignments, and THEN lay into me for using english vocabulary to Talk about it. Because "cant you speak Like a normal Person or do you have to move to Berlin?"
The Kicker? My Majors were english and Media studies. English was obviously.... In English. They would ask me about linguistics Modules that I just cannot discuss in standard German. Because my major is english. So thats the terminology I know.
In the end i simply stopped talking about Uni at Home, except to mention the odd good Grade or Deadline i Had coming Up.
@annabeinglazy5580 Thanks for sharing I feel so seen right now. I just don't understand what my problem is with that language. I can understand people easily, but it's so hard for me to express my own thoughts
I used to frequent a political-oriented blog which had its own rule for commenting: people were limited to 3 comments per post. I think this went some way to reducing online abuse: a key aspect of flame wars is the desire to get the last word as a form of victory. By rationing discourse, each comment is increased in value, and the poster has to think if he wants to expend his assets on *this*. No one is going to post "First!" or "Don't care" or pedantic grammar corrections if they know that that will be the limit of what they can contribute.
That’s actually soooo sensible!
Sadly, this will probably never be implemented on a wide scale because sites like RUclips want "engagement" - more comments means more ad views and money in their pocket. On that note if they really cared about the quality of discourse they would have more even-handed moderation instead of allowing alt-right trolls and pornbots to run wild while moderating innocent comments and demonetizing people for nebulous reasons.
Wait, that's actually a cool feature. I have never thought of that before.
The video with the comment section being tailored is really interesting. That‘s one more reason in my opinion why we should try to consume less on the internet. Don‘t get me wrong, I love the internet for so many things, but I really try to avoid getting „sucked“ into it for too long because it can be a really toxic place and bring out the worst in people.
Unfortunately we are also living in a world where being nice is considered „boring“ and for some reason being „boring“ seems to be a bad thing, because you need excitement in your life. I personally think it‘s the opposite, I embrace it, it gives me so much peace.
i really really liked this video. i've been feeling this way for a while and notice myself getting pissed off with takes i find unnecessarily mean, so it's nice to feel validated about that. but this video also highlighted some ways that i have also tried to be the funny guy or been snarky for likes, and made me realize the times i've been hypocritical about what i preach
Don’t beat yourself up about it - I’m making use of irony and sarcasm in this very video as well, because it’s so ingrained in the way we speak. And also, sometimes it’s useful and fun!! Let’s not forget that using metaphorical or hypebolic language here and there is completely normal. It’s only a problem when taken to extremes.
People say hurtful things to escape having anything hurtful be said to them. The ultimate irony is that people care a lot, and that scares them.
It's also so annoying when comments are just copied and so unoriginal. When I see the same joke comment in every tiktok
Even though not a lot of people are talking about this, I'm so glad more people are noticing this. I thought I was going crazy while looking at comment sections being brutal to the creator of the post. It feels unreal. Being fourteen and seeing people who are almost ADULTS say these things is bizarre 😞.
Reminds me of how some people dismiss social justice movements as mere virtue signaling, unfortunately I used to abuse the usage of the term 'virtue signaling'...
To be fair, virtue-signaling is a major issue in those movements in any case, and I think it’s worth mentioning that making weirdly smug comments about broad groups of people is something that virtue-signalers are often guilty of at least as much as anyone else. Just look at the ongoing Israel-Palestine violence issue: people who passionately support both sides of that are so prone to doing this that it makes having an actual rational, fact-based discussion on the issue all but impossible for anybody.
Virtue signaling does exist though, it's just that those people who do the virtue signaling ruin the movements who are runned by passionate activists.
really glad i don't have tt or use reels very much, mostly on tumblr these days and saw her post and totally agreed! after not having it for a while i realized how the pros of it outweigh the cons and my days feel much longer!♥︎
I think the biggest issue might be the blurring of ages on the internet. People in their 50s, 40s, 30s, 20s and teens are all together in this crock-pot where some have aged past making certain comments but a majority are still kids who have not. Not everyone who's 25+ is mature obviously but some comments from teenagers trying to pass off as adults may contribute to the meanness.
I genuinely think about this every time someone leaves me a wannabe clever comment and I feel like saying something equally wannabe witty... so I really want to be arguing with 15 year olds at my old age?
I think this might be one of the biggest reasons people in their 20s and 30s are so difficult to be around now. Everyone has been brought down to the level of rotten teens. I’m 27 and I find it really difficult to make new friends because everyone’s so negative that I just don’t want to be around them. Celebrating our differences isn’t a thing anymore because everyone’s been effectively brainwashed into being openly critical of everything ALL THE TIME. You can’t like something that someone else doesn’t care for without being made fun of directly to your face.
I think it has more to do with social media and the relative anonymity of the Internet than anything. Physical age does not necessarily correlate to mental age, I’ve been part of different gaming communities (a hobby known for the toxicity of its most toxic members), and in that case I’ve seen more toxic 26-40+ year olds than teens honestly. I think it has more to do with the worst kind of people of all ages feeling free to vent their frustrations on others with little fear of consequences.
@@yellowblanka6058 literally, the internet was always a mean place because of anonymity.
Agree, yeah toxic people exist and they can become rude for simple making the smallest comment/critic, but there're still people who straight up will say the most diabolical thing and called you soft if you get offended
It's really simple. It's easier to laugh than to feel. We're all online trying to avoid feeling the world crushing around us. It's why everyone jokes but no one talks.
Well, if we're laughing, at least we're not crying.
Point taken, but it’s ok to cry IF the need arises. It’s quite alright to experience the FULL measure of one’s humanity. Peace to you & yours, respect. 🙏🏽
This is why I stay on RUclips all the time.
The top comments here are still wholesome, you just need to make sure to never open the replies...
Hello Alina,
First off: thank you for making this thoughtful video. This is a huge subject and several of your points are reasons why I generally never comment on anything online.
I would like to add a thought to the discussion by asking if you've ever read or heard of a book called "Amusing ourselves to death"?
In short summary the author argues that when the medium changed from text to television (with regard to the main way of spreading information) we largely lost the ability to reflect on the information in favour of entertainment.
As television then and RUclips/Instagram/TikTok now are visual mediums there really is no encouragement to pause and reflect on what is being said. Clips are judged on how good they are at keeping your attention.
Boring/slow/nuanced = bad.
Short/quick/shallow=good.
Pairing this idea with the question why some of us prefer to just be mean for entertainments sake feels natural to me. Why wouldn't one say the "funny" thing for attention? (And I personally would guess that judgemental humour is the more universal humour.) Thoughtful comments take time and effort and will not get you as much attention or appreciation.
Love this! So true
Thank you for the rec, I’ll have to check that out 👀
I get the impression that a disdainful attitude is what remains when one is on the brink of helplessness regarding how to act, and one cannot find the understandable and trustworthy part of reality. Others know and can, but one does not know how to achieve such a thing.
I'm tired of the insincerity. It's exhausting. I want to have friends and a girlfriend. I want sincerity from them. That shouldn't be too much to ask.
Ummm but it is too much to ask for in current year.
I feel you. Everyone is fake.
It's the two sides of a coin: Fakeness from the overly "nice" people who just want something out of us vs the cynical, crude, & rude people online who think that they're being more "real" by being a jack🫏
Both are fake and scared to face their true feelings and insecurities.
@@PGOuma thank you. I'm glad someone agrees.
The polarizing comments make so much sense. I guess I never really thought about it. Its right in front of our faces too, the "Where are all the mean comments people are talking about?" or "Why are there no mean comments?" (That one also contributes to the idea that were so used to cynicism/snark)
I mean, its already done with our ads and the videos or posts recommended to us...why not comments?
Hi Alina! This is the first video I've seen of yours; it was recommended to me on the homepage, and I wanted to (in all sincerity) write and say thank you for putting this out there. I've been, for a long time, working on trying to stop turning to humour and irony the moment I become uncomfortable. I've always struggled with sincerity and this was a strong reminder of its importance. I especially appreciated your points about what growing up in the sitcom-on-repeat age must have done to our speech patterns. I've never heard that take before, and I know it's going to be on my mind now. I think that would be a great avenue for future research. I'm looking forward to seeing more of your videos in the future :)
Pervasive insincerity and dishonesty is why I strongly dislike so much of what social media represents. It's also why people comparing themselves to others on social media is so detrimental - so much of it is a well-polished facade. Ironically, I think that's why so many people are unhappy - despite being more "connected" than ever, in terms of genuine conversation and human connection, we're more isolated than at any point in human history.
If you're interested in learning more about the trolling thing and the culture around the internet right now I would recommend the book Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates. It's more specifically about the manosphere but it takes a lot about how it is shaped by the internet culture and how it moves from the internet to real life. I will just warn that some of the content is quite shocking and can sometimes feel like it's lacking commentary for its examples
People seem to be so mean to me online like legit … once I told someone what OCD was and everyone attacked me for it told me I talk to much, stfu, I’m wrong , ect… I used the dsm5 for the legit meaning of OCD because people were making up crap about it yet IM THE ONE being yelled at IM the one being “bullied.
Maybe people are more lonely, leading lives that are full of anxiety for the future ,money problems, and generally being more sad and disillusioned. So when they see others be happy and thrive and making their dreams come true, like a content creator, they lash out in jealousy, because it is easier to criticize and ridicule that take responsibility for yourself and the choices you made in your life and actually try to change and make your dreams come true. Consider this: happy and content people are busy leading happy and content lives. Sad ,discontent and feeling like a failure people on the other hand are the ones who moan and complain.
Anddd being nice feels gooddd being nice is fun and joyful people will surprise you
I have to admit while Ethel has a point. When I first saw it I was like “girl, you were part of the problem too”
Yesss, people were definitely like wait, weren’t you the queen of online irony?? I find it interesting that she wrote that considering that so many of her instagram lives/ general fan interactions are so saturated with absurdity. I wonder if it’s an age thing and she’s growing out of that “phase” or if the irony thing is fun for a while and then gets tiring for everyone
@ I can’t speak for anyone but i have to admit some minority of trans women originally found themselves on 4chan (hellscape of irony and bigotry if you ask me) and some of them are huge jerks. frankly Ethel I think spent at least some time there. I think she’s probably “growing out of it” but more like she’s been away from that space long enough now she’s realizing most people aren’t like that nor find it amusing
@@ladygrey41134chan loves trans people but you'll have to go to the NSFW parts of the website.
@MK_ULTRA420 thats literally how most of society treats trans people in general tbh
I never knew I needed this video. It perfectly encapsulated everything Ive been feeling for such a long time. Thank you ❤
I've been following your channel for quite a while and it just occurred to me, while I was typing a comment about how disheartening it can be to express any sort of opinion online, that I've never actually commented that I really love watching your videos. I love how you pick your topics and how you build your arguments :) Greetings from a fellow Romanian who also grew up with unrestricted access to Western cartoons and TV shows, it's good to have you here.
As a person who likes internet brain rot and also reads classical literature, essays, and other so-called 'intellectual' stuff. I don't really know what to say!
Ccçcçççççcçcççcççççcçççcç
Same tbh
Two of my favorite content creators in the same video.... This is my Avengers Infinity war
EXACTLYYYYY
It’s also goes by the name “Irony Poisoning”
Interestingly enough, I started this channel in July of 2012. My intent was never to hurt people(good people at least), but to start conversation.
i watched this whole video, gave it some thought, and then clicked away to watch paul mescal hot ones (lol) and immediately noticed the phenomenon you were talking about, where the comment section is just a competition to have the funniest quippiest reference or thirst comment. back here just to think out loud about what you said about disinhibition. i think it goes both ways where people feel comfortable saying silly/goofy/unserious stuff to brand/company accounts because you're not thinking of it as a person on the other end of the comments. but then influencers blur the line between being a real person and being a brand. and then i think it trickles down to any random reel that ppl come across, they feel comfortable saying whatever because it's just entertainment/commodity. idk just food for thought, thanks for an interesting video!
the ironing is delicious........
On the topic of the effects of TV on linguistics: I highly recommend the book Slayer Slang by Michael Adams. It’s about Buffy the Vampire Slayer’s linguistics. And it’s also a really fascinating tracking of online fandom in the late 90s and early 2000s. He included not just language from the show, but also language invented on fan forums. And idk it’s just a fun time! 10/10 recommend
Very interesting points! I live in Lithuania and also noticed in news articles about influencers very rude comments, not just "who the h are you, no one cares, etc" but like really nasty comments. But I came to conclusion that most people write bad comments and those who don't have an opinion, or agree, don't express it so much.
Well, Alina, I think your video essays are aces. I love your work. You are so thorough!
always happy to see a video of yours pop up on my yt :] idk how relevant to the topic this is, but i often feel like people demand celebrities to have extreme opinions in order to bash them/ extremely agree with them. i often see an actor for example making a political comment (most often about a situation they know nothing about, really), and then the media promotes that comment more than any movie they have been in. feels like everyone's a politician as of lately. (this has it's positives, such as the fact we get to hear a variety of opinions, but even then it feels like one opinion gets promoted more than the other based on your algorithm, so idk how good this actually is). love your vids!
I don't respond to outrageous posts online because I assume that it's meant to stir shit and the poster is not interested in a genuine conversation. Avoiding social media helps too.
I was attracted to the title, saw the timing, and thought, "fuck, no" (don't judge too harshly: it's late and I just opened YT to listen to some music before sleep), but ended up happily watching the whole thing... which is impressive for a ramble-y monologue! Anyway, I optimistically (?) imagine this resonates with a lot of people. Thanks.
18:05 like when Cillian Murphy was up for an Oscar and people were making him sound like a brand new actor who "finally got noticed" when he's been in PB for ten years and had been in serval box office hots before that 😭 he's been known in the UK for years and i thought the US but sooooo many people just assumed because they haven't seen him Nolan just found a random Irish man on the street for his movie 😭
And this is still western media too which makes it weirder as well
I’m glad I’m not the only one noticing this 😊
I blame tt, the amount of young people that spend so much time on that app that it has completely rotted their brains and they've forgotten how to be normal individuals. Sorry not sorry tt heads
I have seen a plethora of videos on RUclips where girls say if you're pretty you should be mean 😳 honestly I don’t understand.
This was an interesting video - got food for thought, time to mull it over. Thanks.
Irony is the song of a bird, that has come to love its cage
What Virginia Woolf would have responded to Cicero, a quote directly plucked from her collection of essays called Granite and Rainbow. " We can see that there are many books, and we are frequently told that everyone can write nowadays. That may be true; yet we do not doubt that at the heart of this immense volubility, this flood and foam of language, this irreticence and vulgarity and triviality, there lies the heat of some great passion which only needs the accident of a brain more happily turned than the rest to issue in a shape which will last from age to age. It should be our delight to watch this turmoil, to do battle with the ideas and visions of our time, to seize what we can use, to kill what we consider worthless, and above all to realize that we must be generous to the people who are giving shape as best they can to the ideas within them. No age of literature is so little submissive to authority as ours, so free from the dominion of the great; none seems so wayward with its gift of reverence, or so volatile in its experiments." p. 29
This is some great stuff truly. Thank you
Great video! 👏👏👏
I thought that this is a notevenemily video, cuz the first clip is from her vid XD
I notevenemily-baited you
I'm going to start by apologizing because English is not my first language and I don't know if I'll be able to articulate my thoughts in a coherent way. But I would go further and call this "epidemic of irony" an "epidemic of cynicism" in general. Because this is on every corner of the internet. I've seen/received this kind of aggressively chronically online response into simpler pots like regular tweets giving opinions on movies or in more serious situations, like when I tweeted saying "Hey maybe it's not funny to turn a video of Taylor Swift's ex participating in a campaign against the genocide of the Palestinian people, in a tweet trying to make a joke about which Taylor Swift's boyfriend is more attractive"
I think also this is why its hard to find stuff made thats new and daring even in small spaces.
People are scared of beig considered cringe and it stifles creativity, they try to check boxes with diversity and tropes but the stories are the same, and maybe brush someone gutst they don't go full in because everyone needs to be "cool"
Tell me why every time I am having nervous breakdown I channel “I CANT GET THE CAP OFF” energy ala cyber bully
A lot of people have and were nice to others but the than got stomped on by people who know felt entitled and righteous. People could once disagree with each and have discourse with no bad feelings but that changed and now all push back labeled as "hate speech" or other heavy language when in reality its just criticism. Everything got turned up a notch by people who lack the social skills and awareness that light discourse and criticism is not actual hate or meanness.
Good point about tv influencing people having to have a snarky cynical quip every 2 seconds.
I've got to know about Terry Pratchett in 2019, however I grew up reading Susanna Tamaro and Jules Verne. I also have American accent because I'm a pirate since I was 15, leeched tons of tv shows' torrents. English becoming lingua franca is quite recent actually, before that it was French, Panait Istrati wrote in French for instance; I think millenials are the first generation in Europe who speak English fluently as international language.
They are afraid to feel truth
Sorry if I’m doing this same thing but omg I’ve been wondering since I started watching why you had an American accent. A low level mystery that has been bothering me for months lol
I also got my accent/learned English from American TV!
This is how people used to describe high school. Is the internet the new high school?
I would argue that one of the huge problems is that we've got it backwards - a lot of the shitposters and right wing types take nothing seriously but take themselves way too seriously and are very thin-skinned. Generally, I think, as a writer and teacher but just as a person, it's best to take your work seriously and sinerely but not take yourself too seriously that you can't laugh at yourself. I spent decades trying to be liked, and it doesn't work, so I just try to be authnetic with myself now and it works for my writing and teaching and public speaking.
I should be writing but I had to click on this
ALSO if you say something that isn’t true for someone else instead them going “ really? Where are you from? I’ve never seen this?!” And having a normal convo they get mean the curse they call you names they degrade you… I’ve seen people fight and get so mean over someone saying “ Walmart doesn’t sell bags anymore” in some locations they don’t carry bags at all, some are plastic and some are paper but because someone dared to say “ Walmart doesn’t sell bags” everyone went and bullied them like crazy like 40 comments arguing rudely instead of just having a Brian and going “ this might be a location thing! My Walmart has bags” but then I decided to comment this and someone told me how dumb I am being “theirs in fact does NOT sell bags” like ok I just said it’s location to location?!” People have called me a drug addict, a whore, a corpse, to KMS ect ect over things like WALMART BAGS it’s absolutely insane !
I think the irony epidemic has a lot to do with the likes system that most websites employ. It becomes a contest to see who can say the funniest or most rude thing possible and harvest the most likes because nothing gets the dopamine flowing than having a ton of people upvote or like your shit. Its validating in a way. Its why the term dont feed the trolls was born.
I've recently noticed that the scent of internet culture (partic on social media) seems to be snark, sass, sarcasm, smart-assery and sardonicism. It's cool to be all these things on the internet and it shapes the cultural landscape to a fault. It's kinda low-key sad. I miss the era of RUclips when being genuinely excited about the things you love wasn't considered 'cringe'.
I generally feel rather inhibited when it comes to commenting on your videos, Alina, because there's always a lot of matters arising and it's difficult to be selective and succinct. For the same reason I feel that I at least owe you a thank you, and it's tempting to leave it at that. What does strike me as a Brit whose sense of humour is founded on irony, bathos and litotes is that there's rather a dearth of elegant passive aggression online, and most of these mean comments deploy a bludgeon rather than a rapier. Old school polite insults with a ten second delay fuse are far more amusing to concoct if one has nothing nice to say. Anyway, thank you, Alina. 🙂
17:11 I mean totally make fun of the Addison Rae’s of the world who genuinely are famous for giving nothing
Great video
I wish Ethel Cain wouldn’t have apologized, nothing was wrong with that quote. The constant joking IS fucking irritating. It’s just masking because peoples’ inability to expand their intellectual range. It’s a copout for having to truly receive or discuss an emotion or topic.
Also, this is all perpetuated by the rise of the comic. This is so important as an observational reality. Comedians are literally some of the top celebrities right now, which is wild because that’s not how it used to be. Joe Rogan, Theo Von, this is the top social sphere. I love comedy, shit I love Theo Von, but their injection into the overall intellectual space as social LEADERS is grooming people to basically operate solely like comedians because we model our behavior by people we look up to. And the comedians we have in this top echelon are not just enjoyable, they genuinely either mask all emotions through humor or tear people apart in clever quippy ways. It’s a little harsher of a space honestly.
And not that every comedian is like this, but the reality is most comedians do this because of trauma. So we end up with a bunch of people acting traumatically undeveloped.
I knew I wasn't going crazy when I noticed a surge in this attitude right when the pandemic hit 😪
HURT PEOPLE, HURT PEOPLE
Well we're chonrically online have a goldfish memory, therefore 1 comment needs to be 3 (I do that, because otherwise forget) and allegedy there are now 1-1,5 Gens who had social Media as 1 of their (Step-)parents. Maybe if the World is enternally stuck in High School the Internet is eternally Middle school? 🤔 🤔
19:03 well, of course it’s a swiftie account chiiii lol
It's bc of neo liberalism, austerity,also anonymity in the online space.
Have a materialist pov of the world not some idealistic wishy washy vibe based "analysis"
In socialist societies we just snitch on our neighbors for money instead.
An online acquinatance once posted on St. Patty's day "today we celebrate driving the pagans out of Ireland. Huzzah! F_ck the pagans!" knowing full well I am a casual neopagan/occult dabbler (he is a militant atheist, and has a history of saying callous things to me about my beliefs/interests which he'd then pass off as trying to "help" me somehow...yeah right.) I never lost my cool and wrote a rather in-depth response telling him exactly why I object to his joke, and the massive issue I take with Christianity and atheism being seen as "normal" and polytheism/Buddhism/New Age/etc. seen as the "other," and how such double standards seem to me like the product of a Christian missionary culture.
His only response was a tasteless non sequiter dirty joke riffing on the word "missionary." Which kind of proved my point. I actually wrote a second piece trying to explain myself further but his only response to that was "[throws tacos at you]."
As an atheist myself, that seems like a really weird thing for an atheist to say given that the whole point of St. Patrick eliminating paganism was that he wanted everyone to be Christian. Whereas pagans, especially ones from less developed societies, have not been known to be particularly interested in that kind of aggressive evangelism for the most part. Meaning that if he had lived back then, he probably would’ve fared better among pagans than among the Christians who sought to stamp out their beliefs.
@@eeyorehaferbock7870 Yeah he was probably an outlier, because he seemed to think "well all religions are equally make-believe," like I should stop being butthurt about my supposed fairy tale being insulted by another's fairy tale.
From my experience IRL atheists are much more reasonable than their online counterparts, and I only ever knew this guy online.
The bob clip makes me recall something from 'community'. I don't recall the precise quote, but it's to the effect of 'don't go fishing if you aren't prepared to catch a boot'.
Wow, comment section curration based on the viewers algorithm, is a thing?? Wow
"Most of the time they are American"... Actually, no. And that's part of the problem. It allows so many to skirt responsibility and point blame elsewhere while simultaneously participating in the same behavior they accuse others of doing when they are no different.
I think it's definitely not only americans, but check out Karolina Żebrowska's video "How i got wrecked online for my Brigerton event outfit". All of the mean comments on her vids seemed to appear at a specific time, specifically when americans weren't sleeping. They also seemed to be mostly coming from kids. She also shared a study which suggests that there's a big cyber-bullying problem in USA and also India. It's very curious why that is like this for those countries.
I know that America usually contributes to this behavior because we're literally culturally told and taught about how awesome we are and the best country in the world and how other countries need our help or look up to us. I mean, we hardly ever even learn about other countries outside of us and when we do, it isn't usually in depth and moved on quickly.
Lmao Emily
Every side is your good side.
unrealted but you sound like charlotte york
I feel attacked right now
Same honestly 💀😭😭
Ive never gone to the extreme of bullying, but i cant take anything seriously from a combination of not having any other way to cope and the general shift in the people around me to do this certain kind of thing
Nu pot sa cred ca esti romanca i had no idea 💖
Surprizaaaa
the ironing is delicious.....
Imagine hating your own family over politics. Smh. People really need to seek mental health.
Good for you for having a family that's more important to you than the politics thereof. But sucks for you that you don't take politics seriously enough to understand where other people are coming from. Imagine telling people they have to love their families because you don't understand politics. You should probably seek me ral help.
Being genuinely kind to women is considered an ick nowadays. So I treat them with 100% snark and sarcasm.
Noooo icks are for dumb people! I love it when men are nice to women
@accordingtoalina Yeah sure...
@@accordingtoalina I agree
Dont take advice on what "women like" from the internet bro you are being brainwashedd
@@piroshk1968 I would suggest not taking advice from red pill men either or Andrew Tate fans
Too long, didn't watch. Stop being pretentious and touch some grass. 👍
the ironing is delicious........
This video is dumb.
I’m I doing the thing? 👀
the ironing is delicious........
im a bit confused that you are promoting this garbage website though.. has it ever been insightful and helpful?
it is to me! but then again, I am a writer, so hearing some of my favourite writers talk about their craft for hours is super interesting
I don’t take this video seriously. Obviously there’s trolling and probably an irony problem but I don’t think the connection was drawn or that either problems are correctly diagnosed. Connecting trolling to trump was a incredibly shallow analysis. It came across to as complaining about mildly snarky comments.
Trolling isn't because of Trump; Trump is because of trolling.
bro thinks this shi even matters lmao just get off the internet 💀💀
no one asked
Super productive very original never been done before
More of the same dumbfkery
the ironing is delicious........