I hated that they made him sexual abuser and the fathering bastards for the fighting pit was too much. I feel they went their way to make him too evil.
@@gerardjagroonot to mention ruining the coronation. Rhaenys got a boss moment but we can't have Sunfyre. I get that they need to build the confrontation for season 2 and the Shepard but it was not handled properly. Too many civilian casualties was almost cartoonish, also the dragonpit has a back-door. In the books the pit is always guarded by the 77 dragon handlers.
That’s the truth about many people in the Middle Ages. Honestly even in this era, pre-Weinstein effect did you ever think that there would be so many sex offenders among the elite?
@@nadyayap2714 true, the sexual behavior was not too far off reality. The breeding bastards for the fighting pit though I don't think there is a precedent in real life.
That's the curse of being born into nobility. You're life is not your own, you are being born into a life of duty. Most young nobles want to just enjoy their status and money, but they don't want the responsibilities that come with it. Rhaenyra and Aegon are the key examples, she wants the thrown but not all the responsibility that comes with it which is reflected in her having all the bastard children and being rebellious in her youth (e.g. not wanting to marry Jason Lannister whom she was betothe to be the King) and Aegon didn't want to be king and just wanted to drink and screw anything that moves but is forced into the role he was the first born male. After all of that, it's crazy to see the original show end by not instituting a democratic system where the people vote for who they want to rule them.
Excellent points here but it is also important to remember that, no one's past trauma justifies or excusing them passing it on. Aegon did not have to rape serving girls or torture children just because he was neglected and overpressured a bit while growing up. He is a grown man now and is surrounded by role models, loving family and the potential to better himself, and he instead chose debauchery and sadism almost from the first.
I don't think the point of the video is to excuse Aegon's crimes, it's more about taking a closer look into his character. No one is arguing or defend Aegon II, we're discussing his character and trauma, I find some of the points raised interesting, like reading Aegon's abuse toward women as stemming from a hatred for his mother, there are serial killers who did the same. I also think you're forgetting what world this takes place in, Westeros is not kind, it doesn't treat morally good characters well, as Otto said, they "play and ugly game". Aegon doesn't really have morally good role models aside from maybe Viserys, and it's possible his father started to pull away from Aegon after realizing Allicent was put in the right place at the right time by her father. We don't know aside from the scenes we get between Aegon and Allicent.
No, unfortunatelly, no one in his family loves him, maybe Helaena in a way. His mother is trash, his father didn't care he exist, his brother wants to kill him and his grandfather just uses him for power. He have all potential to become damn Joker or mass killer. The fact he still choose some humanity left in is impressive. I agree with you about trauma passing, but Aegon's trauma never really left, he even needs to face fact Rhanenyra's bastards was preffered by Viserys over him, first born son and that's si brutal.
I hope the next season shows the relationship between Aegon and his brothers and his dragon.Aegon's bond with his dragon Sunfyre is stronger than any other bond between a dragon and their rider ever existed.
100% is. He's born into a shit system, to an unfit mother, and then told he's a very special boy, a disgrace, no-son-of-mine, born to be king, also very special boy. It's a lot.
Being a young noble, high born, or even a knight is tragic. I think one of the main motifs of the story is how manipulated and stripped of autonomy these characters are. Seemingly they live rich and glamorous lives, with advantages the average person could only ever dream of. In reality they are pawns; used and absurd and denied any sense of personal identity. They are denied their will, their sexuality, their future. They lost all sense of agency in this story. Even Rhaenyra. Her agency is compromised when it seems as if everyone is just trying to kill her family. So in this sense, Aegon II is definitely a victim. But no more a victim of anyone else playing the game of thrones. Which is a curious thing. Aegon II NEVER WANTED to play the game of thrones. That is what makes it all the more tragic. He is the only character not interested in this political massacre.
What? Where? The show keeps showing Daemon doing horrible things, Alicent is literally crying all the time because she is clearly being victimized by almost everyone and Helaena is barely there
Anyone who says they believe Rhaenyra wasn’t going to immediately murder Aegon and his family on her coronation is a fool or a liar. This man didn't even wanted to reign, the only reason he accepted to be crowned was for protecting his family.
@@theannouncer5538Or at least would've gotten Daemon to do it, since he had no qualms in getting rid of Laenor or murdering Vaemond in front of everyone from behind. The Greens had every right to believe she'd get rid of them to secure her line since her bastard son's (and their descendants) claim would forever be contested and up for challenge as long as the Greens' bloodline survived.
The two sides could've just settled it with trial by combat. I mean, it worked on Clone Wars with Darth Maul on Mandalore. His goons didn't have to fight Pre Vizsla's men for the throne-he just fought the guy, won, and took control of two armies and the kingdom.
I disagree with you on Rhaenyra not wanting the crown 👑 she flat out told the queen that never was that she would change the order of things when she becomes Queen
It's not my opinion. It's what she says in episode 1. The scene you're describing is in episode 2. But this wasn't her initial aspirations. The book doesn't have this, and in fairness to you, they kinda bail on this after episode 1.
Then I would say she Rhaenyra was a different person prior to alicent marrying her father and it showed her coldness towards her former friend it's character development
Not always. This guy is an abuser and he got it easy. Now his bastard son put in a fighting ring for toddlers is a victim who didn’t have any benefit that Viserys had and didn’t use. Since he was a kid he was a victimizer a bully where did he suddenly became a victim? When he raped a maid? When he bullied his own brother? When he disrespected every single person in RF by acting like a fool? When he abused his own bastards?
And rhryneera want aemond after his just lost his eye to be questioned strongly to find out ,who told aemond about her kids ,seriously wants a kid whose just lost his eye to be beaten because he called the boys a nasty name
@@1234billionspl3ndjdpotatoesThey legitimately could have at least made Luke, Jace, Baela and Rhaena apologise for JUMPING him and attacking him 4-to-1. Dude lost his eye and they act like they did nothing wrong, of course there would be resentment.
@@lilchaos9212 Aemond was an instigator in that situation so I really don't feel sorry for him lol. I get why Alicent would be furious though, as she has no way of knowing. You can't corner an animal and not expect them to retaliate.
Ngl, I really feel for Aegon sometimes. Yeah, he's not a good person, but every scene with him and his mother kinda reminds me of myself and my own mother.
Opinion: I almost feel pity for him because his reign was absolutely miserable. He was unconscious for a good half of it and then the other half he was in constant physical agony and lost all his family members. I almost feel sorry for him but I can’t help thinking he brought it on himself in a way. Surprisingly from reading the lore, he’s not the worst member of the Greens. His mother, Ser Criston Coke, Larys Strong we’re awful. He actually was going to do the right thing but was manipulated out of it. That is where my sympathy draws in because he didn’t want to do it from the beginning and was actually doing the right thing by obeying his fathers wishes unlike the rest of the Greens that betrayed Viserys as soon as he drew his last breathe. In that way I can say he was loyal to his father even though their relationship isn’t much specified in the books. He was probably thinking that in his last moments that if he had not taken the throne then his children wouldn’t be dead and he wouldn’t be a severely burned cripple. I bet most of the Greens in the end we’re experiencing high forms of regret. Especially since they didn’t even win in the end. The war was about which bloodline would come out on top and it was Rhaenyra’s. And to add insult to injury he was betrayed by his own men, not that I feel sorry for him on that, but that’s just pitiful to go through all that trouble to be sold out by your own men and knowing that as your dying your enemy wins because the matter of succession went through Rhaenyra’s children not his. Even though he’s a despicable character, his ending almost makes you feel sorry for him. ALMOST (for me)
Maybe or maybe not. The books are intentionally unreliable sources. Gives HOTD a lot of freedom to expand or change certain characters and story details.
He is also a victim of the writing team who keep adding more deplorable traits to him and his family to let Rhaenerya girlboss her way through season 1
one correction: the problem with rhaenyra and her bastards is her trying to pass them off as legitimate. that is one of the bases of the entire conflict… aegon is also fathering bastards but he doesn’t give a shit about them 😭
they not only kill there own family but they also serverely weaken the targaryen power with so many massive and young dragons and there rider both vetren and great potential dying off in one civil war the targaryen loss easily 2/3 of there combat power the only one who loss is the targayren family.
I am not even going to watch this. The guy lost his status of victim the moment I saw this kids in fighting ring and his own bastard seemingly not an exception (I guess it’s cheaper than buying a dog). And may I tell that even knowing how sadist he will be once king Inwanted to see the victim before he the power reveled the monster. Power doesn’t corrupt but reveals, just like it happened with Aemond who was bullied but once he got his dragon he used the pig joke on a girl who just lost her mother. In that moment he also lost his victim status. Now Haelena is the true victim from Alicent brood and no I won’t cry for Alicent, she just started a war because she somehow interpreted a bunch of delirios nonsense Viserys told her as “Aegon should be king instead” the same Viserys that made trough sheer power of will used his last strengths to not take milk of the poppy to set his repeat his fishes which were the same that the one he had 20 years ago. Just to think the agony he went trough to finally defend his daughter not only give her a title and be done wit it expecting everyone will follow. I guess little too late but still how is more valid something a man in agony mumbles than a man who staid in clear mind free of painkillers and that is constant with what he always said? Well the answer is only if he says something that sounds closer to what you want to hear. Even if you nurses him for years and know that what he told in that state shouldn’t be hold as fact. Even the guy with the feet fetish, is more victim than this privileged little shit. No one will convince otherwise, can’t wait to see him burn. And I really hope they didn’t kill his bastard son just for reputation sake. That poor kid…
Aegon didn't rape anyone in the book. They did that in the show to make it impossible to root for the greens despite daemon being a p3do who groomed his niece and Rhaenyra killing innocent people. So nobody can claim morality on this show
Lol they made his character so shit in the show the man wasn’t like this in the books Even the actor that plays him said in an interview how can you redeem such a guy its almost impossible, I blame the writers for ruining Aegon for us, we deserved better than this 💔
Instead you have oligarchy that is disguised as electorate democracy lmao, idk which one is worse. Your government is fat and corrupt as hell with all that bribes which you call "lobbying" and so hyprocritical in their sense of superiority and virtue signaling its a wonder you can still function. Your elites easily divides you and while you busy fighting your brothers and sisters they will rob you blind and suck all your blood until you finally drown in shit stain like all those homeless people in your city
All the characters of the series are victims reproducing the abuse they've endured
Apart from Otto and Larys
@@EverythingInTheFrame Well, we don't know that much about their childhood or anything, do we ?
@@EverythingInTheFrame Rhaenrya wasn't a victim she was a victimizer and so was Daemon
@andrewfoster3520 Can't speak for Otto but I can imagine Larys villain origin story fairly easily
Rhaenyra wasn't a victim at all
I hated that they made him sexual abuser and the fathering bastards for the fighting pit was too much. I feel they went their way to make him too evil.
That's because the show is pro Rhaenyra and Anti Green
@@gerardjagroonot to mention ruining the coronation. Rhaenys got a boss moment but we can't have Sunfyre. I get that they need to build the confrontation for season 2 and the Shepard but it was not handled properly. Too many civilian casualties was almost cartoonish, also the dragonpit has a back-door. In the books the pit is always guarded by the 77 dragon handlers.
@@luisa.acevedo3326 Most based comment I’ve seen all year. Sunfyre is truly one of the greatest dragon in the history of Westeros. We were so robbed
That’s the truth about many people in the Middle Ages. Honestly even in this era, pre-Weinstein effect did you ever think that there would be so many sex offenders among the elite?
@@nadyayap2714 true, the sexual behavior was not too far off reality. The breeding bastards for the fighting pit though I don't think there is a precedent in real life.
That's the curse of being born into nobility. You're life is not your own, you are being born into a life of duty. Most young nobles want to just enjoy their status and money, but they don't want the responsibilities that come with it. Rhaenyra and Aegon are the key examples, she wants the thrown but not all the responsibility that comes with it which is reflected in her having all the bastard children and being rebellious in her youth (e.g. not wanting to marry Jason Lannister whom she was betothe to be the King) and Aegon didn't want to be king and just wanted to drink and screw anything that moves but is forced into the role he was the first born male.
After all of that, it's crazy to see the original show end by not instituting a democratic system where the people vote for who they want to rule them.
Excellent points here but it is also important to remember that, no one's past trauma justifies or excusing them passing it on. Aegon did not have to rape serving girls or torture children just because he was neglected and overpressured a bit while growing up. He is a grown man now and is surrounded by role models, loving family and the potential to better himself, and he instead chose debauchery and sadism almost from the first.
which role models? i agree with your overall point he has agency, but he’s still set up from the jump essentially.
I don't think the point of the video is to excuse Aegon's crimes, it's more about taking a closer look into his character. No one is arguing or defend Aegon II, we're discussing his character and trauma, I find some of the points raised interesting, like reading Aegon's abuse toward women as stemming from a hatred for his mother, there are serial killers who did the same. I also think you're forgetting what world this takes place in, Westeros is not kind, it doesn't treat morally good characters well, as Otto said, they "play and ugly game". Aegon doesn't really have morally good role models aside from maybe Viserys, and it's possible his father started to pull away from Aegon after realizing Allicent was put in the right place at the right time by her father. We don't know aside from the scenes we get between Aegon and Allicent.
No, unfortunatelly, no one in his family loves him, maybe Helaena in a way. His mother is trash, his father didn't care he exist, his brother wants to kill him and his grandfather just uses him for power. He have all potential to become damn Joker or mass killer. The fact he still choose some humanity left in is impressive. I agree with you about trauma passing, but Aegon's trauma never really left, he even needs to face fact Rhanenyra's bastards was preffered by Viserys over him, first born son and that's si brutal.
Season 2 happend and it only cemented what i knew always. He's the best character in the show
I hope the next season shows the relationship between Aegon and his brothers and his dragon.Aegon's bond with his dragon Sunfyre is stronger than any other bond between a dragon and their rider ever existed.
Only 1 brother Aemond. Daeron is in Oldtown but still they should have showed him in episode 6 since he has a vicious rivalry with Jace
100% is. He's born into a shit system, to an unfit mother, and then told he's a very special boy, a disgrace, no-son-of-mine, born to be king, also very special boy. It's a lot.
He is my favorite character and i love him so much
No matter the circumstances you grow up in there is still a choice what kind of person you want to become and how you behave
Like Mewtwo once said: "[...] the circumstances of one's birth are irrelevant. It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are."
Being a young noble, high born, or even a knight is tragic. I think one of the main motifs of the story is how manipulated and stripped of autonomy these characters are.
Seemingly they live rich and glamorous lives, with advantages the average person could only ever dream of. In reality they are pawns; used and absurd and denied any sense of personal identity. They are denied their will, their sexuality, their future. They lost all sense of agency in this story. Even Rhaenyra. Her agency is compromised when it seems as if everyone is just trying to kill her family.
So in this sense, Aegon II is definitely a victim. But no more a victim of anyone else playing the game of thrones. Which is a curious thing. Aegon II NEVER WANTED to play the game of thrones. That is what makes it all the more tragic. He is the only character not interested in this political massacre.
I really dislike how the show demonises Aegon, Aemond, Alicent, and Helaena. Daemon and Rhaenyra aren’t good people.
Finally someone else said it
What? Where? The show keeps showing Daemon doing horrible things, Alicent is literally crying all the time because she is clearly being victimized by almost everyone and Helaena is barely there
If it’s anything, Rhaenyra is going to start looking a loooooooooot worse soon.
@@Isuream6331 Good, hope her hair falls out.
@@Isuream6331after she takes Kingslanding
Anyone who says they believe Rhaenyra wasn’t going to immediately murder Aegon and his family on her coronation is a fool or a liar.
This man didn't even wanted to reign, the only reason he accepted to be crowned was for protecting his family.
Agreed, she did not give the slightest fuck about her half siblings. She definitely would have had them die in some sort of “accident”
@@theannouncer5538 that’s her dads fault in my opinion
@@theannouncer5538 yess she didn't give f***k abt her siblings but when did her siblings give shit abt her ???
@@Piotr12396 lol I can bet my life you are a feminist
@@theannouncer5538Or at least would've gotten Daemon to do it, since he had no qualms in getting rid of Laenor or murdering Vaemond in front of everyone from behind. The Greens had every right to believe she'd get rid of them to secure her line since her bastard son's (and their descendants) claim would forever be contested and up for challenge as long as the Greens' bloodline survived.
Honestly I don't think it was a false insistence him and his family would have been killed, Daemon was always going to kill the greens
The two sides could've just settled it with trial by combat. I mean, it worked on Clone Wars with Darth Maul on Mandalore. His goons didn't have to fight Pre Vizsla's men for the throne-he just fought the guy, won, and took control of two armies and the kingdom.
I disagree with you on Rhaenyra not wanting the crown 👑 she flat out told the queen that never was that she would change the order of things when she becomes Queen
It's not my opinion. It's what she says in episode 1. The scene you're describing is in episode 2. But this wasn't her initial aspirations. The book doesn't have this, and in fairness to you, they kinda bail on this after episode 1.
Then I would say she Rhaenyra was a different person prior to alicent marrying her father and it showed her coldness towards her former friend it's character development
Victims creating victims
Exactly. Some just adapt better.
Not always. This guy is an abuser and he got it easy. Now his bastard son put in a fighting ring for toddlers is a victim who didn’t have any benefit that Viserys had and didn’t use. Since he was a kid he was a victimizer a bully where did he suddenly became a victim? When he raped a maid? When he bullied his own brother? When he disrespected every single person in RF by acting like a fool? When he abused his own bastards?
Well, it did not help that there were no consequence for Aemond losing his eye.
What was supposed to happen? Another kid gets mutilated? Luke’s mother gets her arm sliced open is that not enough gore for you?
And rhryneera want aemond after his just lost his eye to be questioned strongly to find out ,who told aemond about her kids ,seriously wants a kid whose just lost his eye to be beaten because he called the boys a nasty name
@@1234billionspl3ndjdpotatoes ah no. He could have been disinherited etc. There are so many posaible ways to punish luke without hurting him.
@@1234billionspl3ndjdpotatoesThey legitimately could have at least made Luke, Jace, Baela and Rhaena apologise for JUMPING him and attacking him 4-to-1. Dude lost his eye and they act like they did nothing wrong, of course there would be resentment.
@@lilchaos9212 Aemond was an instigator in that situation so I really don't feel sorry for him lol. I get why Alicent would be furious though, as she has no way of knowing. You can't corner an animal and not expect them to retaliate.
Ngl, I really feel for Aegon sometimes. Yeah, he's not a good person, but every scene with him and his mother kinda reminds me of myself and my own mother.
He out lived all his siblings
The Reynes of castamere at the beginning
Rhaenrya wanted the throne
Everyone
Opinion: I almost feel pity for him because his reign was absolutely miserable. He was unconscious for a good half of it and then the other half he was in constant physical agony and lost all his family members. I almost feel sorry for him but I can’t help thinking he brought it on himself in a way. Surprisingly from reading the lore, he’s not the worst member of the Greens. His mother, Ser Criston Coke, Larys Strong we’re awful. He actually was going to do the right thing but was manipulated out of it. That is where my sympathy draws in because he didn’t want to do it from the beginning and was actually doing the right thing by obeying his fathers wishes unlike the rest of the Greens that betrayed Viserys as soon as he drew his last breathe. In that way I can say he was loyal to his father even though their relationship isn’t much specified in the books. He was probably thinking that in his last moments that if he had not taken the throne then his children wouldn’t be dead and he wouldn’t be a severely burned cripple. I bet most of the Greens in the end we’re experiencing high forms of regret. Especially since they didn’t even win in the end. The war was about which bloodline would come out on top and it was Rhaenyra’s. And to add insult to injury he was betrayed by his own men, not that I feel sorry for him on that, but that’s just pitiful to go through all that trouble to be sold out by your own men and knowing that as your dying your enemy wins because the matter of succession went through Rhaenyra’s children not his. Even though he’s a despicable character, his ending almost makes you feel sorry for him. ALMOST (for me)
READ THE BOOKS !!! AEGON NEVER RAPED !!!
Maybe or maybe not. The books are intentionally unreliable sources. Gives HOTD a lot of freedom to expand or change certain characters and story details.
@@DCharles You can't just call someone rapist for the sake of a different perspective
@@jaideepinamda6545 look man, I'm talking about the show that characterized him in a specific way. You don't like it, take it up with Ryan and George.
It was a rumor spread by Mushroom. Son nonreliable
yes! its a two-sided conflict. not enough people get this
He is also a victim of the writing team who keep adding more deplorable traits to him and his family to let Rhaenerya girlboss her way through season 1
I dun want it - Aegon the elder
I like the book version more
one correction: the problem with rhaenyra and her bastards is her trying to pass them off as legitimate.
that is one of the bases of the entire conflict…
aegon is also fathering bastards but he doesn’t give a shit
about them 😭
How many seasons will this show have?
4 or 5 I think.
4 Seasons
a victim of bad writing
Amen to that lol
Aegon in the books was a badass, look at what we got lol
THANK YOUUUU
Another great video in the books! :)
@D.charels can you do the rest of the green victim family
they not only kill there own family but they also serverely weaken the targaryen power with so many massive and young dragons and there rider both vetren and great potential dying off in one civil war the targaryen loss easily 2/3 of there combat power the only one who loss is the targayren family.
I am not even going to watch this. The guy lost his status of victim the moment I saw this kids in fighting ring and his own bastard seemingly not an exception (I guess it’s cheaper than buying a dog). And may I tell that even knowing how sadist he will be once king Inwanted to see the victim before he the power reveled the monster. Power doesn’t corrupt but reveals, just like it happened with Aemond who was bullied but once he got his dragon he used the pig joke on a girl who just lost her mother. In that moment he also lost his victim status. Now Haelena is the true victim from Alicent brood and no I won’t cry for Alicent, she just started a war because she somehow interpreted a bunch of delirios nonsense Viserys told her as “Aegon should be king instead” the same Viserys that made trough sheer power of will used his last strengths to not take milk of the poppy to set his repeat his fishes which were the same that the one he had 20 years ago. Just to think the agony he went trough to finally defend his daughter not only give her a title and be done wit it expecting everyone will follow. I guess little too late but still how is more valid something a man in agony mumbles than a man who staid in clear mind free of painkillers and that is constant with what he always said? Well the answer is only if he says something that sounds closer to what you want to hear. Even if you nurses him for years and know that what he told in that state shouldn’t be hold as fact.
Even the guy with the feet fetish, is more victim than this privileged little shit. No one will convince otherwise, can’t wait to see him burn. And I really hope they didn’t kill his bastard son just for reputation sake. That poor kid…
👌🏽💯
in the series they make him super evil just so that we are in the team black.🙄
Aegon didn't rape anyone in the book. They did that in the show to make it impossible to root for the greens despite daemon being a p3do who groomed his niece and Rhaenyra killing innocent people. So nobody can claim morality on this show
Power doesn't corrupt but reveals, perfect for Rhaenyra
Lol they made his character so shit in the show the man wasn’t like this in the books
Even the actor that plays him said in an interview how can you redeem such a guy its almost impossible, I blame the writers for ruining Aegon for us, we deserved better than this 💔
Lol based.
interesting way of looking at it. Fortunate we have no foolish monarchy in the states
Instead you have oligarchy that is disguised as electorate democracy lmao, idk which one is worse.
Your government is fat and corrupt as hell with all that bribes which you call "lobbying" and so hyprocritical in their sense of superiority and virtue signaling its a wonder you can still function. Your elites easily divides you and while you busy fighting your brothers and sisters they will rob you blind and suck all your blood until you finally drown in shit stain like all those homeless people in your city
Your glorious republic is led by specimens such as Trump and Biden, truly fortunate.
Not in name but we have definitely entered into feudal capitalism. I wouldn’t be shocked if our republic is replaced by a monarchy in 20 years
laughing joebidenly 😝😝😝
I didn't say our system works. I don't embrace it
Tha sounds like Green propaganda lol jk