sooooo were was grey wind when rob die ? i think you mean rob meet roose in battle and grey wind bite of rooses head as rob never want into battle with out grey wind
Stannis would not except that offer. Yes he burned his daughter but that’s was only AFTER his men were half depleted, Ramsey sacked their camp in the night burning all their supplies and releasing their horses and the road where completely covered in snow. He was desperate to take winterfel because if he didn’t his entire army would’ve died. If he has everything you gave him in thus scenario, there’s no chance he’s working with the Boltons especially if Roose is blatantly breaking his oath. Remember stannis damn near didn’t even fight for Robert during the rebellion because of his oath to the crown, only deciding to do so because it was his role and duty as the second born to fight for his brother
I disagree. Stannis felt that fighting for Robert was almost a coin toss against fighting for the mad king. If he believes in loyalty to royalty in those circumstances, then anyone who supported him over the "usurper" robb(ert) stark would be NOT committing treason, whereas the "loyalist" lords would be traitors, just like the Stormlanders that followed their leige lord into rebellion against Stannis by following Storm's End. He didn't condemn the Florents that followed him initially, despite them "betraying" Renly. Nor all the Stormlanders that followed him instead of Margaery or Edric Storm
@ No that down right incorrect this was Stannis reasoning word for word: “My brother, Robert Baratheon had raised the banners of Storm’s End, our ancestral castle, against the Mad King, Aerys. Jon Arryn of the Vale and Eddard Stark of the north stood with him, and Hoster Tully of the Riverlands would join. But their lands were far from ours, and separated by the combined strength of the west, the Reach, and King’s Landing itself. Even Robert’s own lords were against him. It was the hardest choice I’ve ever made. My brother or my king. Blood or honor. Aerys ruled by right of all the lords in Westeros. Everyone knew the price of defiance, but there are deeper, older laws. The younger brothers bows before the elder. I followed Robert.” He choose Robert due to his belief in the old laws and the honor of blood. To your second point he accepted those man because renly was dead and that’s was his plan from the start. He literally killed renly because he knew it would make the stormlands fall back under his control. Stannis would never except someone into his ranks who is admitting without shame that he is betraying his oath. And even more so telling him that he makes no promises of staying loyal to him. Yall look at his actions and just think he is willing to been his honor them moment it helps him but that has literally never been the case. He ONLY does so when he literally has no other options. 1. If he didn’t assassinate Renly they would’ve lost most of their forces fight each other and ultimately losing to the Lannisters 2. If he hadn’t been so beat down leading up to the battle of winterfel he would’ve never sacrificed his daughter 3. He could’ve easily abused his power to strong arm Jon into helping him after he saved the nights watch 4. He could’ve easily done way worse things to Gendry but instead told Mel to only use his blood rather than sacrificing him And there’s more moments than just that but those are just off the top of my head. I’m not saying that under zero circumstances he would work with Roose, but given how much he rebolstered Stannis army in this what if. He would have zero reason to accept an offer from someone who is literally showing him he has no loyalty
@@dominicellis6185Stannis would not trust Roose at all. For all his faults he’s a just man. He wouldn’t allow a great house like the Starks to be removed by the Boltons as Wardens of the North.
He burned his daughter alive to win when he was desperate enough. He is a zealot in his belief of his claim and is surrounded by zealots who gas him up constantly. He'd take the deal if he believed it would help him win the throne.
@@dcrews100perhaps, but one thing Stannis doesn't do is tolerate oath-breakers. He'll send a shadow baby or cave in to pressure from Zealots, but he would boil himself in oil before letting someone break their oaths in his presence. Just as he would have burned Castle Black to the ground had he been alive to hear of their betrayal of Jon Snow, he would burn Roose alive for betraying Rob. Cuz yeah, he's a zealot (at least in the show) but he doesn't tolerate oath-breakers, and Davos, I seriously doubt, would even attempt to try to get him to trust people who would so easily turn on their liege lords.
@@dcrews100 I sincerely doubt that. He only burned his daughter when he had lost a lot of hope. Without this circumstance Stannis has displayed himself to be a black and white rigid thinker with a distaste for dishonorable people. He would never make a deal with Roose Bolton. He would have Roose’s head for being a traitor.
Right off the bat, there is a glaring inconsistency. Robb made the pact to marry a Frey girl during the events of book 1. While Sandor and Arya begin traveling together during book 3. So Sandor cannot be at the twins with Arya at that time.
Rob wouldn't have lost any tactical battle. He was a battle genius. If Roose's betrayal would lead to his death it would have to be something off a conventional battlefield.
Battle geniuses lose all the time. Battles can turn in a second and tactics only matter so much. Rob is smart but he’s 15 and has next to no experience, and experience often matters way more than planning. There’s no such thing as a commander who can’t lose. Especially against a more experienced and seasoned commander
@emilybarclay8831 The narrative in which Rob was written was along the lines of an Alexander the Great - he won every battle he fought for a reason and that was because his character was meant to show a larger point. It would be out of character for him to loose in a conventional tactical battle
@DominionSorcerer There have been instances in real history when a smaller force lead by a genuine commander overcomes a larger force in battle, like Hannibal, or Alexander or Julius. The way Rob's character was written he was portraying a competence along these lines, his loss was due to his non battlefield decisions.
@@dcrews100 yeah, but unlike them, Robb was fighting a losing war. He won every battle, but his allies lost several and his entire kingdom was thrice outnumbered by his enemies.
Roose wasn't always gonna betray robb. He married a Frey girl as Robb got engaged to one so he'd be part of the royal family in the north. I don't think he'd have betrayed robb of he honored his pact
Roose isn't an idiot either. By the third book the North is fucked. Alot of Northern holdfasts and keeps have been attacked by the Ironborn on their pillaging. The Riverlands is in complete disarray with bands of Ronbs Forces Lannister Loyalist and mercenaries committing crimes destroying villages and killing people setting up for a terrible famine once Winter sets in. Roose saw that Robb was at his weakest point politically and took the chance to usurp the North for himself.
This seems openly wrong on multiple fronts. Without even getting very far into the video you start theorizing about how Roose Bolton will betray Robb in this timeline instead of what happened. Why do you assume Roose would betray Robb at all? Martin has directly stated (as it was theorized) that Roose Bolton was not out to get Robb early on. Bolton saw Robb make mistakes and decided that Robb could not be trusted to lead the north. The two big mistakes being executing Karstark and breaking his marriage vow. If we are discussing an alternate timeline where Robb doesn't make these mistakes, then we need to discuss the possibility of Roose staying loyal to Robb. Roose was a man who's loyalties weren't decided at the start of the series. He was ready to take the best offer on the table. And if Robb made the right choices then Roose would have died a loyal man. In his own way Roose tried to guide Robb down the "right" path. Roose only was willing to betray Robb after Robb rejected Roose's advice and after Robb lost heavy support for being an oath breaker.
Because he was already plotting to betray Robb at this point of the story. This takes place in ASOS when Roose already undermined the Starks in several ways.
God, imagine a Jaime Lannister with the naivety of the Nights”’s Watch being an honourable duty gets worn down and becomes the Jaime from the original books only to have a Jon Snow come and remind him of himself.
@@M.L.official Tywin couldn’t, the reason why Robb suggests freeing Jon from the Night’s Watch is because they take the same oaths as the Kingsguard and Joffrey had dismissed Barristan Selmy. Tywin wasn’t all that powerful under Robert’s rule. He abused his son and daughter and grandkids and Tywin sat in Casterly Rock silent as the grave.
The respect I have for you is endless, here is someone making incredible content who obviously has impeccable and thorough understanding of the universe and it’s very obvious your soul is in this project. It feels like George is writing these himself, the detail you and lore accurate thinking and decision making is just breathtaking. I need to see this channel and series continue forever.
Yeah I don't see the Boltons betraying the Starks in this scenario. If Robb never met Jeyne Westerling as this scenario states that means Robb never loses Frey support so he still has their entire army marching with him. Roose only betrayed Robb after he lost the Frey and Karstark support, and while Robb still may lose the Karstarks (the extra manpower could probably recapture Jaime) it won't be enough to get Roose to flip. Especially since he also married a Frey, so now House Bolton is also connected to the Royal family.
@godemperorofmankind3.091 Again he felt the war was lost because they lost so many men due to Robb's political mistakes. The Boltons are opportunistic not 4D chess players. Without the Frey's support the Red Wedding simply doesn't happen, meanwhile Joffery is still poisoned along with Tywin getting killed a few weeks later. So the Lannisters would be seen as unreliable at that point. Stannis doesn't really have anything to offer, as he doesn't really have the strength or authority to make Roose warden of the North.
Robb marrying Roslyn kills ANY chance of Frey or Bolton betrayal, with the reward for his success outweighing just about any alternative(it also destroys Ramsey's chance of legitimacy, regardless of age Roose is gonna value an heir related to the Northern royal family above his bastard) I Also don't think you quite understand Stannis, or at the very least are massively underestimating Melisandre. Stannis is like a slightly more rigid and brutal Ned, honorable to a fault. Even for his benefit, he wouldn't accept Roose's treachery, especially against the son of the man who gave his life to put him on the throne. Even if he did take Roose and his men into his service, Melisandre would sniff out the double cross well ahead of the battle and probably set up an elaborate trap for the Lannister/Tyrells( payback for the Blackwater/ a stand-in for the suspected frozen lake trap in the upcoming battle of ice) With Roose burning at the stake as the center-piece distraction. Roose was also one of Robb's top generals, a "Body Double" isn't going to work for the kind of face-to-face interactions he had with Robb either. Alternatively, to Roose trying to defect, I think Stannis and Robb would form an alliance, and with the knowledge that Ned gave his life because he thought Stannis was the rightful king Robb would back him, almost ready to give up Northern independence. Until surprisingly Davos convinces Stannis( with a nice long "Beggin your Pardon your grace, but" Ned Stark was just as responsible for overthrowing the Targaryns as Robbert, and in the end, his brother realized it when he went all the way to Winterfell to retrieve Ned to help him rule. Also, the 7 Kingdoms being united in battle is what really matters, not who bends the knee to who. As long as the North will stand with Stannis against the threat beyond the wall they can govern themselves.
They wouldn’t have any reason to. All Walder cares about is his family and the upholding the pride for it. If Robb respected that, he would be perfectly fine living out his last days working with Robb.
@@Lolpy. Walker caring about his family is why their inaction in this seems wrong to me. His reason for being so hung up on Robb breaking the marriage vow was him wanting his grandchild to be the next ruler the North - the Freys always seeking to raise their station and whatnot In this scenario he got that. If the Starks fall, his daughter but more importantly (to him) the child she’s carrying is dead. He wouldn’t want that.
What Uf Little Finger didn't betray Ned Stark after Robert's death and Bed became Regent ? What if Khal Drogo survived ? What if Jon Arryn survived ? What if Ned Stark became king after the rebellion ? What if Renly & Stannis joined forces during Catelyn's peace envoy to Renly ? What if Starks joined Stanniw instead of Renly ? What if Oberyn won the Trial by Combat against the Mountain ? What if Job Snow was legitimised by Ned Stark early on? What if Rhaegar married Lyanna openly instead of eloping ?
So you forgot the fact that he has a psychic on his side like a literal psychic who can see the future through fire Melisandre would sniff out Bolton faster than a snake finds a rat
This one is pretty weird. Stannis wouldn't take the offer. Also I find it incredibly odd that somehow bolstering his numbers with more Rivermen leads to defeat at the hand of Bolton soldiers. 1 + 1 don't add up to 2 here.
@georgeprchal3924 do not get me wrong, she's a dunce. She ruined a lot of Robb's plans. But it sucks that she, a mother didn't know her babies would end up okay, except Rickon of course. But maybe if she wasn't dead, she would have told him to zig zag
I don’t see Robb dying the way he did on the field here. Like others said, he’s a genius in combat, and is battle tested, nor do I find Rose competent enough a warrior to hold off Robb the way he did here. I think like in canon, you had to tip your finger on the scale to make this work lol.
Here are my what if’s , 1. What if lucarys valaryon didn’t die to Aemond one eye 2. What if oberyn won against the mountain 3. What if D&D could write good endings
Robb starting his campaign south with a "small army" is a wrong notion. Robb said when he wld go north he can muster up more men because the 20k soldiers they had gathered were mostly the winterfell stark soldiers and the hurried lords bringing some 100's to some 1000 none cld muster their 50% force. Robb wld take time to gather a host and it wld likely be a 40k to 45k like it is usually when the north marches south. Then accompanied by the riverlands who were mostly ravaged wld end up wth 10k-15k. basically him marching south once completeling solidifying the north wld give him the win in the war of the 5 kings.
They marched south with 20k men in the show, a lot of those men died in the south. The Riverlands couldn't muster that many forces for a northern campaign, they'd still have to be in the Riverlands, defending their homeland against the Lannister-Tyrell alliance who, regardless of what Robb does to increase his numbers, would still outnumber him twice over and they will conquer the Riverlands while Robb is battling in the North, which is a campaign that will take well over a year. He's not winning the War of the Five Kings regardless of what he does.
Have you done what if the Lannisters returned Sansa? Ive always been interested in what would happen. I like to think she wouldve been married to Willis Tyrell as an alliance.
Love your content but the writing for this “what if” ain’t it. Many characters are acting out of character. Stannis, Roose, the Northern houses, etc etc. The Tyrells would not go to war for the Lannisters if Tywin is dead.
What if the Mountain never killed or r@ped Elia Martell or killed her children? I’d be curious to see how much would have changed if Tywin would have taken them hostage instead of eliminating them outright, or how Robert would react to the news of them not being dead. Maybe Tywin would keep them in hiding to use for later or something.
It really wouldnt accomplish anything. The Tyrells joining with the Lannister was the literal death blow to the Kingdom of North and Trident, Robb was literally going to lose the second they marched out from KL with 80k men vs his measly 25k. Walder Frey wouldve jumped ship regardless of the marriage pact
Yeah, The North suffered a death by a thousand cuts but if we're talking about the true losing moment of the war, it was the Battle of the Blackwater and Robb not communicating with Edmure to keep Tywin and his men penned down. The realm was more or less going to unify behind which army came out the victor of that fight. The North, at best, could have gone the Dorne route and try to hold fast until their conquerors found the war to be more trouble than its worth, but that's where Robb's various tactical errors throughout the war ultimately did him in.
Highly unlikely that Arya persuaded Robb to make the Hound since, up until much later than this in the canon timeline, he's still on her list of people she wants revenge against. Despite keeping her alive at this point, she'd still want him dead
Hmmm I’m not sure about that. I think on their journey together her opinion of him changed. Towards the end, he was off her list. Even the faceless men pushed her on that topic during one of their games, no?
@@ThreeEyedTheoristyup I agree. Her list is what kept her going after the Red Wedding. Seeing as how that never happened here and she was reunited with her family, I don't think she would still want to kill him.
@@lordr1c325 that is actually a fair point. She was pretty vengeful still before the red wedding, but it was really the red wedding that set her into that mindset.
A few issues, for one if Rob immediately wed the Frey, why does this start at the end of Book 3? And I also just don't see Stannis accepting Roose's offer, frankly I think Rob and Stannis would be more likely to become allies.
What if Robb joind Stannis What if Robb told emdure tully of his plan. What if Stannis won battle of ice. What if Vale joind Robb. What if Dorne joind Stannis. What if Greens won dance of dragons. What if Balon attacked westerlands. What if Tywin survied. What if Joffrey survied what if Tommen survied.
I still think walder frey would commit a red wedding just not as soon and probably after rob and rosilin have a a child so his family have a claim to winterfell most likely with a marriage alliance with the child of sansa and a lannister child from tyrian or such
First one I don’t think is plausible. Stannis won’t take that deal and if he did the red lady would do something about the betrayal before it happened. Robb wouldn’t stay if he knew the boltens weren’t doing anything too the reachmen he also probably wouldn’t go south till all the castles are in there right owners hands and a raven can fix the north plot pretty quickly or a fast rider also the north won’t go to war with itself if winter is going on and it would be going on if the attack on the wall happened.
I think some stuff needs to be addressed here. Roose Bolton would definitely have to plot against the Starks because he's already in too deep at this point. Keep in mind he was planning to betray Robb as early as ACOK when he organized the Battle of Duskendale and allowed Ramsey to Sack Winterfell and later covered it up. If Robb survived, it would only be a matter of time before Robb figured out what actually happened, especially since the Battle Outside Winterfell wasn't complete and a lot of the Stark soldiers survived. (Hell their one reason Stannis was able to gather so many northern soldiers in AWD.) As for Stannis, I could definitely see him accepting Roose's offer. Keep in mind this isn't Stannis's only time being tricked by a northern lord. In AWD he was tricked by Arnolf Karstark into being led into a trap. It took Jon Snow to warn him about the trap to prevent Stannis's army from being wiped out. Roose is much more charismatic and cunning than Arnolf. Espeically since at this point, Roose's reputation was still much higher.
I feel like this was a mischaracterization ofStanis. Stanis is a very absolute character. He will see roose for exactly what he is, a traitor. He would’ve never trust him. In fact, he would probably even tell Rob about roose’s treachery.
This would have been so much better without the creepy music, vocal affectation, and dramatic pauses. It's an interesting question to explore, but you're going to put a lot of people off with your pomp. You're doing far too much.
The Freys would have still betrayed Robb once the army of the reach was at their doorstep. After all, Walders son is married to Tywin's sister. Also, Bolton will have no choice but to betray once it's known that his son sacked winterfell.
The Freys have no reason to betray the Starks in this scenario, as they married into the Northern Royal family, Arya is also supposed to marry a Frey. Only one son of "many" sided with the Lannisters and that's only because his wife was a Lannister. In this scenario I also doubt the Boltons would betray the Starks as again the only reason Roose betrayed Robb was because he was starting to lose the war as he lost support for both the Freys and Karstarks (he still may lose Karstark support depending on whether or not Roose let's Jaime go)
![ROSÉ(로제) - APT. (Band VER.) (With. 이영지) [더 시즌즈-이영지의 레인보우] | KBS 241129 방송](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/IW8qaemx74g/mqdefault.jpg)
Let’s try this again! 1500 likes for part two 🎉
Come on people hit the damn like button! I wanna hear this 😂
sooooo were was grey wind when rob die ? i think you mean rob meet roose in battle and grey wind bite of rooses head as rob never want into battle with out grey wind
14 hours in and the video's nearly at 1k likes. Methinks you'd better start on that script.
Stannis would not except that offer. Yes he burned his daughter but that’s was only AFTER his men were half depleted, Ramsey sacked their camp in the night burning all their supplies and releasing their horses and the road where completely covered in snow. He was desperate to take winterfel because if he didn’t his entire army would’ve died. If he has everything you gave him in thus scenario, there’s no chance he’s working with the Boltons especially if Roose is blatantly breaking his oath. Remember stannis damn near didn’t even fight for Robert during the rebellion because of his oath to the crown, only deciding to do so because it was his role and duty as the second born to fight for his brother
I disagree. Stannis felt that fighting for Robert was almost a coin toss against fighting for the mad king. If he believes in loyalty to royalty in those circumstances, then anyone who supported him over the "usurper" robb(ert) stark would be NOT committing treason, whereas the "loyalist" lords would be traitors, just like the Stormlanders that followed their leige lord into rebellion against Stannis by following Storm's End. He didn't condemn the Florents that followed him initially, despite them "betraying" Renly. Nor all the Stormlanders that followed him instead of Margaery or Edric Storm
@ No that down right incorrect this was Stannis reasoning word for word:
“My brother, Robert Baratheon had raised the banners of Storm’s End, our ancestral castle, against the Mad King, Aerys. Jon Arryn of the Vale and Eddard Stark of the north stood with him, and Hoster Tully of the Riverlands would join. But their lands were far from ours, and separated by the combined strength of the west, the Reach, and King’s Landing itself. Even Robert’s own lords were against him. It was the hardest choice I’ve ever made. My brother or my king. Blood or honor. Aerys ruled by right of all the lords in Westeros. Everyone knew the price of defiance, but there are deeper, older laws. The younger brothers bows before the elder. I followed Robert.”
He choose Robert due to his belief in the old laws and the honor of blood.
To your second point he accepted those man because renly was dead and that’s was his plan from the start. He literally killed renly because he knew it would make the stormlands fall back under his control.
Stannis would never except someone into his ranks who is admitting without shame that he is betraying his oath. And even more so telling him that he makes no promises of staying loyal to him. Yall look at his actions and just think he is willing to been his honor them moment it helps him but that has literally never been the case. He ONLY does so when he literally has no other options.
1. If he didn’t assassinate Renly they would’ve lost most of their forces fight each other and ultimately losing to the Lannisters
2. If he hadn’t been so beat down leading up to the battle of winterfel he would’ve never sacrificed his daughter
3. He could’ve easily abused his power to strong arm Jon into helping him after he saved the nights watch
4. He could’ve easily done way worse things to Gendry but instead told Mel to only use his blood rather than sacrificing him
And there’s more moments than just that but those are just off the top of my head. I’m not saying that under zero circumstances he would work with Roose, but given how much he rebolstered Stannis army in this what if. He would have zero reason to accept an offer from someone who is literally showing him he has no loyalty
@@dominicellis6185Stannis would not trust Roose at all. For all his faults he’s a just man. He wouldn’t allow a great house like the Starks to be removed by the Boltons as Wardens of the North.
I don't think Stannis would take this deal. He is very honorable, and would not use shenanigans to win.
I also doubt that roose would do this either as he is an opportunist not a schemer
He burned his daughter alive to win when he was desperate enough. He is a zealot in his belief of his claim and is surrounded by zealots who gas him up constantly. He'd take the deal if he believed it would help him win the throne.
@@dcrews100perhaps, but one thing Stannis doesn't do is tolerate oath-breakers. He'll send a shadow baby or cave in to pressure from Zealots, but he would boil himself in oil before letting someone break their oaths in his presence.
Just as he would have burned Castle Black to the ground had he been alive to hear of their betrayal of Jon Snow, he would burn Roose alive for betraying Rob.
Cuz yeah, he's a zealot (at least in the show) but he doesn't tolerate oath-breakers, and Davos, I seriously doubt, would even attempt to try to get him to trust people who would so easily turn on their liege lords.
@@dcrews100 show Stannis wasn't a zealot in his beliefs in the Lord of Light, only in his claim to the throne.
@@dcrews100 I sincerely doubt that. He only burned his daughter when he had lost a lot of hope. Without this circumstance Stannis has displayed himself to be a black and white rigid thinker with a distaste for dishonorable people. He would never make a deal with Roose Bolton. He would have Roose’s head for being a traitor.
Right off the bat, there is a glaring inconsistency. Robb made the pact to marry a Frey girl during the events of book 1. While Sandor and Arya begin traveling together during book 3. So Sandor cannot be at the twins with Arya at that time.
This takes place in a storm of swords not a game of thrones.
Rob wouldn't have lost any tactical battle. He was a battle genius. If Roose's betrayal would lead to his death it would have to be something off a conventional battlefield.
Battle geniuses lose all the time. Battles can turn in a second and tactics only matter so much. Rob is smart but he’s 15 and has next to no experience, and experience often matters way more than planning.
There’s no such thing as a commander who can’t lose. Especially against a more experienced and seasoned commander
At some point there's only so much a battle genius can do when he's faced with increasingly larger armies and suffer losses he can't replace.
@emilybarclay8831 The narrative in which Rob was written was along the lines of an Alexander the Great - he won every battle he fought for a reason and that was because his character was meant to show a larger point. It would be out of character for him to loose in a conventional tactical battle
@DominionSorcerer There have been instances in real history when a smaller force lead by a genuine commander overcomes a larger force in battle, like Hannibal, or Alexander or Julius. The way Rob's character was written he was portraying a competence along these lines, his loss was due to his non battlefield decisions.
@@dcrews100 yeah, but unlike them, Robb was fighting a losing war. He won every battle, but his allies lost several and his entire kingdom was thrice outnumbered by his enemies.
Roose wasn't always gonna betray robb. He married a Frey girl as Robb got engaged to one so he'd be part of the royal family in the north. I don't think he'd have betrayed robb of he honored his pact
Roose isn't an idiot either. By the third book the North is fucked. Alot of Northern holdfasts and keeps have been attacked by the Ironborn on their pillaging. The Riverlands is in complete disarray with bands of Ronbs Forces Lannister Loyalist and mercenaries committing crimes destroying villages and killing people setting up for a terrible famine once Winter sets in. Roose saw that Robb was at his weakest point politically and took the chance to usurp the North for himself.
Came to hear to say this
Yeah this guy is a 3 times gold medalists in the Mental Gymnastics lol
This seems openly wrong on multiple fronts. Without even getting very far into the video you start theorizing about how Roose Bolton will betray Robb in this timeline instead of what happened. Why do you assume Roose would betray Robb at all?
Martin has directly stated (as it was theorized) that Roose Bolton was not out to get Robb early on. Bolton saw Robb make mistakes and decided that Robb could not be trusted to lead the north. The two big mistakes being executing Karstark and breaking his marriage vow.
If we are discussing an alternate timeline where Robb doesn't make these mistakes, then we need to discuss the possibility of Roose staying loyal to Robb. Roose was a man who's loyalties weren't decided at the start of the series. He was ready to take the best offer on the table. And if Robb made the right choices then Roose would have died a loyal man.
In his own way Roose tried to guide Robb down the "right" path. Roose only was willing to betray Robb after Robb rejected Roose's advice and after Robb lost heavy support for being an oath breaker.
Yeah, it feels like he was trying to create plot twists and an interesting story for the video. Instead of being more accurate and realistic.
@@BrotherHood-xh9sg he's not creating anything, most likely. It's an AI voice speaking so I wouldn't be surprised if ChatGTP wrote it.
@@DominionSorcererdisliked because youre speaking as if you know
Because he was already plotting to betray Robb at this point of the story. This takes place in ASOS when Roose already undermined the Starks in several ways.
Its ai idk what you expect
What if after the rebellion, ned was able to convince robbert to send jamie to the wall?
This is a great one!
God, imagine a Jaime Lannister with the naivety of the Nights”’s Watch being an honourable duty gets worn down and becomes the Jaime from the original books only to have a Jon Snow come and remind him of himself.
I'm pretty sure tywin would get him out of the watch lol
@@M.L.official Tywin couldn’t, the reason why Robb suggests freeing Jon from the Night’s Watch is because they take the same oaths as the Kingsguard and Joffrey had dismissed Barristan Selmy. Tywin wasn’t all that powerful under Robert’s rule. He abused his son and daughter and grandkids and Tywin sat in Casterly Rock silent as the grave.
The respect I have for you is endless, here is someone making incredible content who obviously has impeccable and thorough understanding of the universe and it’s very obvious your soul is in this project. It feels like George is writing these himself, the detail you and lore accurate thinking and decision making is just breathtaking. I need to see this channel and series continue forever.
It's ChatGPT writing it.
Yeah I don't see the Boltons betraying the Starks in this scenario. If Robb never met Jeyne Westerling as this scenario states that means Robb never loses Frey support so he still has their entire army marching with him. Roose only betrayed Robb after he lost the Frey and Karstark support, and while Robb still may lose the Karstarks (the extra manpower could probably recapture Jaime) it won't be enough to get Roose to flip. Especially since he also married a Frey, so now House Bolton is also connected to the Royal family.
Not losing Freys doesn't mean they have the men to win. Roose is a pragmatic man. he felt the war was lost already
@godemperorofmankind3.091
Again he felt the war was lost because they lost so many men due to Robb's political mistakes. The Boltons are opportunistic not 4D chess players. Without the Frey's support the Red Wedding simply doesn't happen, meanwhile Joffery is still poisoned along with Tywin getting killed a few weeks later. So the Lannisters would be seen as unreliable at that point. Stannis doesn't really have anything to offer, as he doesn't really have the strength or authority to make Roose warden of the North.
@@RodrigoCen7456 without the Freys, Robb is still impossibly outnumbered and outmatched in every way.
I absolutely love these videos. Please do sequels on all of them!
Robb marrying Roslyn kills ANY chance of Frey or Bolton betrayal, with the reward for his success outweighing just about any alternative(it also destroys Ramsey's chance of legitimacy, regardless of age Roose is gonna value an heir related to the Northern royal family above his bastard) I Also don't think you quite understand Stannis, or at the very least are massively underestimating Melisandre. Stannis is like a slightly more rigid and brutal Ned, honorable to a fault. Even for his benefit, he wouldn't accept Roose's treachery, especially against the son of the man who gave his life to put him on the throne.
Even if he did take Roose and his men into his service, Melisandre would sniff out the double cross well ahead of the battle and probably set up an elaborate trap for the Lannister/Tyrells( payback for the Blackwater/ a stand-in for the suspected frozen lake trap in the upcoming battle of ice) With Roose burning at the stake as the center-piece distraction.
Roose was also one of Robb's top generals, a "Body Double" isn't going to work for the kind of face-to-face interactions he had with Robb either. Alternatively, to Roose trying to defect, I think Stannis and Robb would form an alliance, and with the knowledge that Ned gave his life because he thought Stannis was the rightful king Robb would back him, almost ready to give up Northern independence. Until surprisingly Davos convinces Stannis( with a nice long "Beggin your Pardon your grace, but" Ned Stark was just as responsible for overthrowing the Targaryns as Robbert, and in the end, his brother realized it when he went all the way to Winterfell to retrieve Ned to help him rule. Also, the 7 Kingdoms being united in battle is what really matters, not who bends the knee to who. As long as the North will stand with Stannis against the threat beyond the wall they can govern themselves.
The Hound would have torn Ramsey into little pieces and stomped all over them. Then he would have gotten mad!
The Freys do absolutely nothing in this one
They wouldn’t have any reason to. All Walder cares about is his family and the upholding the pride for it. If Robb respected that, he would be perfectly fine living out his last days working with Robb.
@Lolpy. I guess I just expected them to be more involved in this scenario
@@Lolpy. Walker caring about his family is why their inaction in this seems wrong to me.
His reason for being so hung up on Robb breaking the marriage vow was him wanting his grandchild to be the next ruler the North - the Freys always seeking to raise their station and whatnot
In this scenario he got that. If the Starks fall, his daughter but more importantly (to him) the child she’s carrying is dead. He wouldn’t want that.
Just like they do with most things, nothing.
What Uf Little Finger didn't betray Ned Stark after Robert's death and Bed became Regent ?
What if Khal Drogo survived ?
What if Jon Arryn survived ?
What if Ned Stark became king after the rebellion ?
What if Renly & Stannis joined forces during Catelyn's peace envoy to Renly ?
What if Starks joined Stanniw instead of Renly ?
What if Oberyn won the Trial by Combat against the Mountain ?
What if Job Snow was legitimised by Ned Stark early on?
What if Rhaegar married Lyanna openly instead of eloping ?
Yay!! You posted again! Gosh I needed a picker upper! 🎉
Gotchu bro 😎
Yeah, this one ain't it. If Rob doesn't betray the Freys and Tywin dies first, Roose stays loyal until the War is over at least.
What if Jamie never joined the Kings Guard?
Tywin would be happier than anyone in Westros.
Then Mad King would have burnt King's Landing much sooner than Denaerys. And Tywin would die with him.
@@jozefmasny8349 Would Tywin be blamed for the fire?
@@TheKarotechia why do you think he would be?
Then there's no King's Landing anymore.
Thanks For this ❤❤❤❤
My pleasure!!
So you forgot the fact that he has a psychic on his side like a literal psychic who can see the future through fire Melisandre would sniff out Bolton faster than a snake finds a rat
I absolutely love your theories ❤
Glad you like them :)
This one is pretty weird. Stannis wouldn't take the offer. Also I find it incredibly odd that somehow bolstering his numbers with more Rivermen leads to defeat at the hand of Bolton soldiers. 1 + 1 don't add up to 2 here.
I like any theory that allows Cat to know her daughters are alive. She died not knowing that Arya was okay
Good she's the worst.
@georgeprchal3924 do not get me wrong, she's a dunce. She ruined a lot of Robb's plans. But it sucks that she, a mother didn't know her babies would end up okay, except Rickon of course. But maybe if she wasn't dead, she would have told him to zig zag
A Hound Among the Wolves.
I don’t see Robb dying the way he did on the field here. Like others said, he’s a genius in combat, and is battle tested, nor do I find Rose competent enough a warrior to hold off Robb the way he did here. I think like in canon, you had to tip your finger on the scale to make this work lol.
Here are my what if’s ,
1. What if lucarys valaryon didn’t die to Aemond one eye
2. What if oberyn won against the mountain
3. What if D&D could write good endings
Love your channel! These are VERY WELL DONE! HEARTH PLEASE ❤❤❤❤❤
Its ai made
This timeline is all messed up
It’s not AI made but okay lol
This was a great watch as usual but most of it would never happen because of how extremely honor bound Stannis is.
Stannis wouldn’t accept an offer like that from Roos, give this another try
It’s Catlyns fault when Robb essentially asked is any of Freys daughters good looking she basically said hell nah
YOU posted again! You're amazing! Keep up the good work 😊😊😊😊
Absolute Cinema 🙌
Robb starting his campaign south with a "small army" is a wrong notion. Robb said when he wld go north he can muster up more men because the 20k soldiers they had gathered were mostly the winterfell stark soldiers and the hurried lords bringing some 100's to some 1000 none cld muster their 50% force. Robb wld take time to gather a host and it wld likely be a 40k to 45k like it is usually when the north marches south. Then accompanied by the riverlands who were mostly ravaged wld end up wth 10k-15k. basically him marching south once completeling solidifying the north wld give him the win in the war of the 5 kings.
They marched south with 20k men in the show, a lot of those men died in the south. The Riverlands couldn't muster that many forces for a northern campaign, they'd still have to be in the Riverlands, defending their homeland against the Lannister-Tyrell alliance who, regardless of what Robb does to increase his numbers, would still outnumber him twice over and they will conquer the Riverlands while Robb is battling in the North, which is a campaign that will take well over a year.
He's not winning the War of the Five Kings regardless of what he does.
Interesting, Pal.
yeah nice but you masssively overrate the boltons. They are more opportuntists not manpulators
Stannis would have been highly offended by Roose's offer I doubt very highly he would have taken it
What if Rob sent Cathlyn or Roose to the Iron Islands instead of Theon?
Have you done what if the Lannisters returned Sansa? Ive always been interested in what would happen. I like to think she wouldve been married to Willis Tyrell as an alliance.
Love your content but the writing for this “what if” ain’t it. Many characters are acting out of character. Stannis, Roose, the Northern houses, etc etc. The Tyrells would not go to war for the Lannisters if Tywin is dead.
What if Theon stayed loyal
What if the Mountain never killed or r@ped Elia Martell or killed her children?
I’d be curious to see how much would have changed if Tywin would have taken them hostage instead of eliminating them outright, or how Robert would react to the news of them not being dead. Maybe Tywin would keep them in hiding to use for later or something.
It really wouldnt accomplish anything. The Tyrells joining with the Lannister was the literal death blow to the Kingdom of North and Trident, Robb was literally going to lose the second they marched out from KL with 80k men vs his measly 25k. Walder Frey wouldve jumped ship regardless of the marriage pact
Yeah, The North suffered a death by a thousand cuts but if we're talking about the true losing moment of the war, it was the Battle of the Blackwater and Robb not communicating with Edmure to keep Tywin and his men penned down.
The realm was more or less going to unify behind which army came out the victor of that fight. The North, at best, could have gone the Dorne route and try to hold fast until their conquerors found the war to be more trouble than its worth, but that's where Robb's various tactical errors throughout the war ultimately did him in.
please start including Faegon and Jon Connington
Highly unlikely that Arya persuaded Robb to make the Hound since, up until much later than this in the canon timeline, he's still on her list of people she wants revenge against. Despite keeping her alive at this point, she'd still want him dead
Hmmm I’m not sure about that. I think on their journey together her opinion of him changed. Towards the end, he was off her list. Even the faceless men pushed her on that topic during one of their games, no?
@@ThreeEyedTheoristyup I agree. Her list is what kept her going after the Red Wedding. Seeing as how that never happened here and she was reunited with her family, I don't think she would still want to kill him.
@@lordr1c325 that is actually a fair point. She was pretty vengeful still before the red wedding, but it was really the red wedding that set her into that mindset.
A few issues, for one if Rob immediately wed the Frey, why does this start at the end of Book 3? And I also just don't see Stannis accepting Roose's offer, frankly I think Rob and Stannis would be more likely to become allies.
I think it meant Robb married the frey girl immediately affer returning west
I need you to release about 3 dozen videos today, if that's fine with you. kthx.
😂
I'm starting to think you do love your lord Bolton 😁
sounds like the battle of hastings!
He was a king he shouldve taken 2 wives
Lol the Targaryen way
While there are points where I would disagree of events
I very much like how different it is
What if Robb joind Stannis What if Robb told emdure tully of his plan. What if Stannis won battle of ice. What if Vale joind Robb. What if Dorne joind Stannis. What if Greens won dance of dragons. What if Balon attacked westerlands. What if Tywin survied. What if Joffrey survied what if Tommen survied.
Dorne joining Stannis is one I could get behind. It actually makes sense
Never been this early. Lets get that 1500 likes!
Nice story, I am just curious about what happened to Sansa in this scenario
First
Also first time I can say that lol
Great vids once again I love this
Dropping comment for algo. 👌🏿
😎😎
I still think walder frey would commit a red wedding just not as soon and probably after rob and rosilin have a a child so his family have a claim to winterfell most likely with a marriage alliance with the child of sansa and a lannister child from tyrian or such
I would serve Stannis and help him win too.
Stupid, poorly written fan fiction. The timeline is wrong and the author understands nothing about Stannis or his conception of honor.
First one I don’t think is plausible. Stannis won’t take that deal and if he did the red lady would do something about the betrayal before it happened. Robb wouldn’t stay if he knew the boltens weren’t doing anything too the reachmen he also probably wouldn’t go south till all the castles are in there right owners hands and a raven can fix the north plot pretty quickly or a fast rider also the north won’t go to war with itself if winter is going on and it would be going on if the attack on the wall happened.
What if Renly didnt get killed by the Shadows?
You missed the bit where Robb and Ramsey kiss
At this point I'm pretty sure these are just AI generated
🙄 if you say so lol
@ThreeEyedTheorist Definitely Is, post a vlog detailing the process of making the videos, including voice over work.
I think some stuff needs to be addressed here.
Roose Bolton would definitely have to plot against the Starks because he's already in too deep at this point. Keep in mind he was planning to betray Robb as early as ACOK when he organized the Battle of Duskendale and allowed Ramsey to Sack Winterfell and later covered it up. If Robb survived, it would only be a matter of time before Robb figured out what actually happened, especially since the Battle Outside Winterfell wasn't complete and a lot of the Stark soldiers survived. (Hell their one reason Stannis was able to gather so many northern soldiers in AWD.)
As for Stannis, I could definitely see him accepting Roose's offer. Keep in mind this isn't Stannis's only time being tricked by a northern lord. In AWD he was tricked by Arnolf Karstark into being led into a trap. It took Jon Snow to warn him about the trap to prevent Stannis's army from being wiped out. Roose is much more charismatic and cunning than Arnolf. Espeically since at this point, Roose's reputation was still much higher.
I feel like this was a mischaracterization ofStanis. Stanis is a very absolute character. He will see roose for exactly what he is, a traitor. He would’ve never trust him. In fact, he would probably even tell Rob about roose’s treachery.
Stannis says the hardest choice of his life was between Robert and Aerys. if he couldn't see Aerys for what was, then Stannis is a fool
What if Viserys named Aegon heir. What if Viserys invaded westeros with dohraki
Part 2 to what if Stannis won. And jon never joing night watch
Most your videos are great. This is strange and would never happen.
Stannis would never
What if Robb marries Margaery?
Give me part 2
This would have been so much better without the creepy music, vocal affectation, and dramatic pauses. It's an interesting question to explore, but you're going to put a lot of people off with your pomp. You're doing far too much.
What if Robert had legitimate son?
COMMENT FOR THE ALGORITHM
No way this man took thanksgiving off. He's working too hard.
Ai generated slop
6th video in a row , you’re on a roll :)
une histoire sur grif le jeune c est possible ?
Bro what 😂 lmao
How did hound and Aria turn up
In the original series
They reached the Twins on the wedding night, albeit a different wedding
But in this timeline, it was Robb's wedding
Where is frey army ??
This theory is so wrong
Is this an AI channel?
It’s not :)
@@ThreeEyedTheorist Okay lol. Ngl ya sounded like one at first. Forgive me. I wanna hear real people talk Thrones!
This is a ridiculous and flimsy premise lol
What if Jaime was stationed at dragon stone during the rebellion?
The Freys would have still betrayed Robb once the army of the reach was at their doorstep. After all, Walders son is married to Tywin's sister. Also, Bolton will have no choice but to betray once it's known that his son sacked winterfell.
So much wrong with this one.
This one referring to what you are saying.
The Freys have no reason to betray the Starks in this scenario, as they married into the Northern Royal family, Arya is also supposed to marry a Frey. Only one son of "many" sided with the Lannisters and that's only because his wife was a Lannister.
In this scenario I also doubt the Boltons would betray the Starks as again the only reason Roose betrayed Robb was because he was starting to lose the war as he lost support for both the Freys and Karstarks (he still may lose Karstark support depending on whether or not Roose let's Jaime go)
This really sucks
First in, yeet.