That's a good mechanic. Checking everything. That is 90+ . Temperature shuld be about 92*F . Not 300 *F . Even on 80% should be no more than 200. Good finde.👍
I had a goodman unit getting extremely hot similar to this and the heat exchanger looked good with camera as far as i could reach and the flames didn't dance at all but turned out that the heat exchanger had a hole in it blowing massive heat right at the secondary. Never seen any signs until it was pulled out.
11:07 - Because of the hex, I would expect it was meant for using to tighten the valve. Where else can you put a wrench to tighten it? The only thing I could see doing different here is using a flat jaw adjustable wrench (what my dad called a “Crescent” wrench).
I will say, if you install mini-splits, nylog blue is your best friend. It's manufacturer recommended, it works and I've never had a flare leak when nylog is applied correctly. Say what you will, but nylog is the shiz! I wouldn't say it's necessary on low pressure, consistent temperature gas lines, but high pressure, hi temp fluctuating flare joints, YES!
I've been putting pipe dope on majority of flare and union "threads" for around 20 years. my reason is mainly for anti-seize purposes, where they tend to get condensation or water spray from leaks or service work and can rust very hard into place. I use a vibration/locking type sealant though, don't want them to come loose and leak. the flex connector hoses don't need anything for anti-seize, because of stainless, brass or other coated metals not rusting. although the anti-vibration locking is nice, for some scenarios.
You need to set the gas valve pressure on all new gas valve replacements just as you do with new furnace installs. Manufactures no longer seem to care about quality. In the old days ( I’ve been doing HVAC since 76) it was very uncommon for gas valves to be over firing on new furnaces and replacement valves. At our age Theodore it’s always nice to not have to kneel down to work on stuff. Be well👍👍🇨🇦
we ran in to close to same issue with Tempstar counterflow 90plus in garage over heating. eating up Camstats. Found someone cut loose return in attic. white blow in insulation clogged secondary heat exchanger.
I have had the same situation with gas smell that was hard to diagnose. Cone to find out, the crossovers on the inshot burner’s were dirty. Not lighting all the burners intermittently and filling the area with gas.
yeah, that happens, as well as spiders and bugs clogging the orifices, burner tubes and even partially plugging heat exchangers(stink bugs love filling them up!)
gas smell that nobody can find. my first thought is "ignition failure", until it locks out and auto-resets or customers power cycle, causing more ignition failures. since every ignition failure dumps diluted unburnt gas out the flue pipe, it's often smelled fairly strong, add in drafty older home or leaking heat exchangers and you get tom foolery the gas company cannot find, not that they're great at finding leaks anyway! been there done that. lol **edit** well, it banging off the high limit endlessly, with flue exhaust directly in front of an crawlspace vent will do it! that was some real genius install work back then! 🙄😬
Ted, was down your neck of the woods- Honea Path, this past week- pretty sure I passed your place going back to the GSP airport- I thought to myself, I just passed old Ted’s place- legend!
I’ll be heading down to the plants a few times over the next couple months- I’d enjoy stopping over. I’ll be sure to give you a heads up. I enjoy Honea Path- nice and quiet - I can check Sparky’s Tacos off my list- Next, on the list is the Little Biscuit Barn- The plant boys got a kick out of the old PA yankee pap ordering sweet tea.
@ 11:17 Ted, like you said shouldn't be with a pipe wrench, But, I hand screw a nipple into it, for some structure, maybe it's just that it looks like it would help. Also having a Monkey wrench Helps.
As steamfitter apprentices, we were taught to always put a nipple in there. But like Ted, as one becomes more experienced, judgment calls are made. That valve looked extra beefy so I agree with Ted.
Did you consider condemning the unit? It's concerning that its getting too hot. But the high limit is doing its job to prevent a fire. Maybe they can get by another six weeks until Spring. Save money for a new furnace before next winter.
I use thread compound on unions in damp and outdoor locations to keep the threads from seizing. I never put any on the actual seating face, it can squeaze out and leak.
I had the same problem with my rental house she said she smelled gas when she came home after being away for a few hours, I guess she was desensitized when home for a while and not worried about it I told her it wasn’t something to ignore and to call the gas co. turned out the gas valve was leaking by after it shout off, I wouldn’t have ever found that with the soapy bubbles!
Those old Goodman furnaces don't need to be that hot on the exhaust housing maybe warm to the touch but not so you can't touch it. I see them melt before but due to the motor burn up. IMO its clogged. I like hanging my units on strut, 1/2" plywood with a metal drain pan the whole length and width of platform with rod. Never had a problem of vibration from the unit. I've even used metal high hats to sit the unit on in the pan. Depending on application. I see why they hung that unit is cuz of the flood line on the house and surrounding area. Wonder if ya can cut open the vavle to see what caused it, maybe the coil. Good call on replacement of gas vavle.
I have had that problem on old cheeks back in the day and a few carriers it has always been for me someone replaced the draft inducer and did not put the restrictor (bushing) I guess you would call it on the draft inducer
Did you check the air filter and the blower wheel for debris? Also what is the difference between the return and outlet of the unit? That was a really good video. Thanks
It looks like there are two problems, bad high limit switch and airflow issue across the heat exchanger. Like you said the chamber area should never get that high. If the air flow across the heat exchanger is restricted, that would open the high temp switch prior to meeting the call on the thermostat, would it not? If limit switch is operating normally, this furnace would be experiencing premature shutdowns.
I know who the guy was he was replacing a AO smith commercial water heater . Yeah i thought the Pipe dope on a taper seal fitting was a little goofy but you are correct the only thing you MAY need is lubrication and it should be between the flare nut and the copper to reduce friction when tightening and stop gauling .Another issue i see is they have that exhaust right in front of the Basement fress air vent thats bad news . Have you ever thought of doing combustion analasys i do it to every unit youd be surprised how many installs have way high CO2 and Nox that isnt very efficient .
Ted good job on replacing the gas valve I probably replaced valve and the control board same time if I am you not sure what it is at fault it could be ether or both
I've come across a few stuck valves in my time. They may hang open slightly on one try, they might work fine a dozen other times. Scary situation for the homeowners for sure.
Some thing fell out of the manifold pipe when you removed the gas valve. 9:30 Appox. It may have been a video fault or shadow, but some thing appeared to fall out of the pipe.
Hi Ted. When you changed the valve, did you verify manifold pressure or clock the gas meter to ensure the furnace was not over fired. Checking the condensing heat exchanger, filter and ac coil is also a must.😊
Kudos on finding the overly hot cold header and the resulting shut down on high limit, that said, I'm not sure why the unit "needs to go" nor why it is not worth at least attempting to clean. I agree that the induction blower was old and might be difficult to source but that's a guess at this point. The burners seemed to be burning well as is evidenced by the unaffected flame when the blower came on. Too often I feel like the HVAC industry has a "needs to go" mentality that gives customers the opinion that upselling is all they're about. Just my opinion, for what it's worth, and an admitted advocate for the customer.
I just had one similar, the gas was leaking both at the meter union and from the crawl...it sucking into the return ductwork in the crawl through and cracks it could find and blowing out the supply and into the house. How the gas company "Didn't find anything" really makes me wonder. I found it easily.
My mom got a new house 4 years ago. Its a modular. It came with a miller furnace. 2 summers ago the contactor on the AC shorted out and blew the fuse. Last week she calls me and has no heat. I went over and fuse was blown again. It blew soon as gas valve opened. I pulled the wires off and fuse didnt blow anymore. My question is could there something underlying that keeps shorting outputs out or is it just they dont make things like they used to?
A while back on one of my service calls I found a leak on the valve around knob when I press down for pilot it stopped leaking once I let off it started again just my experience not knocking yours
Id be willing to bet that the secondary HX is plugged. Find that quite often on the old Bryant/Carrier 90+ furnaces. The top of the furnace will get so hot that you cant hardly touch it
Doing a meter test on the gas meter, [ Turning off all gas appliances , shutting valves on piloted appliances ] and moving the 1/2 foot hand to 6 oclock, marking it, and watching it for 5 /10 minutes , if it moves , you have a gas leak.
I am a Licensed Aircraft Mechanic and don't know enough about home HVAC to criticise any of your work. I would, however, hire you to work on my system any time.
Where is the fresh air coming from it only has a single vent pipe; I have a feeling it is not installed correctly because it needs a fresh air intake along with the exhaust vent pipe I'd be willing to bet the fresh air inlet is blocked causing a vacuum instead a air flow circuit.
Any number of things could be ready to fail on such an old piece of equipment. The tech fixes what he/she was called out for, and the next day something else fails that the tech gets blamed for. Tech becomes married to the thing, so it's not worth it.
Being up here in Spartanburg. May I ask for your honest opinion? I have a horizontal furnace with a slab coil. You prefer not to hang the furnace. I have a limited crawlspace I thought hanging would be better. But since you don't like hanging. What's your preferred method?
That's a good mechanic. Checking everything. That is 90+ . Temperature shuld be about 92*F . Not 300 *F . Even on 80% should be no more than 200. Good finde.👍
I had a goodman unit getting extremely hot similar to this and the heat exchanger looked good with camera as far as i could reach and the flames didn't dance at all but turned out that the heat exchanger had a hole in it blowing massive heat right at the secondary.
Never seen any signs until it was pulled out.
Always a joy to watch your videos! I spent 51 years in the trade and you make my day!
I am glad that you will give them all the options. I always have a problem when a tech only says "you need a new unit" when there is other options.
11:07 - Because of the hex, I would expect it was meant for using to tighten the valve. Where else can you put a wrench to tighten it? The only thing I could see doing different here is using a flat jaw adjustable wrench (what my dad called a “Crescent” wrench).
I will say, if you install mini-splits, nylog blue is your best friend. It's manufacturer recommended, it works and I've never had a flare leak when nylog is applied correctly. Say what you will, but nylog is the shiz! I wouldn't say it's necessary on low pressure, consistent temperature gas lines, but high pressure, hi temp fluctuating flare joints, YES!
I've been putting pipe dope on majority of flare and union "threads" for around 20 years. my reason is mainly for anti-seize purposes, where they tend to get condensation or water spray from leaks or service work and can rust very hard into place. I use a vibration/locking type sealant though, don't want them to come loose and leak.
the flex connector hoses don't need anything for anti-seize, because of stainless, brass or other coated metals not rusting. although the anti-vibration locking is nice, for some scenarios.
Cowboy, you have put out another awesome video ! Thanks for sharing
Start with inspection of air filter, then break out the manometer.
Also check gas pressure to make sure it is not overfiring. Clock the meter.
@15:58, YOU ARE RIGHT UNCLE TED!!, a flare doesn't need pipe dope!!!!!
Well done Ted, another one up and running safely... No heat required in NSW Au today its 12.20 and already 30c (86F ) 👍 Au
You need to set the gas valve pressure on all new gas valve replacements just as you do with new furnace installs. Manufactures no longer seem to care about quality. In the old days ( I’ve been doing HVAC since 76) it was very uncommon for gas valves to be over firing on new furnaces and replacement valves. At our age Theodore it’s always nice to not have to kneel down to work on stuff. Be well👍👍🇨🇦
Is this profession considered engineering?
You should retire
Id check filter, temp rise then gas pressure. It is definately running too hot. Great video as always
Every weeks upload troubleshooting videos your explain ways are good and understandable nice job
we ran in to close to same issue with Tempstar counterflow 90plus in garage over heating. eating up Camstats.
Found someone cut loose return in attic. white blow in insulation clogged secondary heat exchanger.
I have had the same situation with gas smell that was hard to diagnose. Cone to find out, the crossovers on the inshot burner’s were dirty. Not lighting all the burners intermittently and filling the area with gas.
yeah, that happens, as well as spiders and bugs clogging the orifices, burner tubes and even partially plugging heat exchangers(stink bugs love filling them up!)
gas smell that nobody can find. my first thought is "ignition failure", until it locks out and auto-resets or customers power cycle, causing more ignition failures. since every ignition failure dumps diluted unburnt gas out the flue pipe, it's often smelled fairly strong, add in drafty older home or leaking heat exchangers and you get tom foolery the gas company cannot find, not that they're great at finding leaks anyway! been there done that. lol
**edit** well, it banging off the high limit endlessly, with flue exhaust directly in front of an crawlspace vent will do it! that was some real genius install work back then! 🙄😬
3 weeks wait for a new video is too long. Love the content.
Ted, was down your neck of the woods- Honea Path, this past week- pretty sure I passed your place going back to the GSP airport- I thought to myself, I just passed old Ted’s place- legend!
Should have stopped !!
I’ll be heading down to the plants a few times over the next couple months- I’d enjoy stopping over. I’ll be sure to give you a heads up.
I enjoy Honea Path- nice and quiet - I can check Sparky’s Tacos off my list- Next, on the list is the Little Biscuit Barn- The plant boys got a kick out of the old PA yankee pap ordering sweet tea.
23:30 Jimmy Protectors 😎👍
@ 11:17 Ted, like you said shouldn't be with a pipe wrench, But, I hand screw a nipple into it, for some structure, maybe it's just that it looks like it would help. Also having a Monkey wrench Helps.
As steamfitter apprentices, we were taught to always put a nipple in there. But like Ted, as one becomes more experienced, judgment calls are made. That valve looked extra beefy so I agree with Ted.
With information given, looks like the right call.
Did you consider condemning the unit? It's concerning that its getting too hot. But the high limit is doing its job to prevent a fire. Maybe they can get by another six weeks until Spring. Save money for a new furnace before next winter.
I use thread compound on unions in damp and outdoor locations to keep the threads from seizing. I never put any on the actual seating face, it can squeaze out and leak.
The Trane screws probably doubled the value of that old Goodman! 😂😅
Great job Ted I totally agree with you 100%
I had the same problem with my rental house she said she smelled gas when she came home after being away for a few hours, I guess she was desensitized when home for a while and not worried about it I told her it wasn’t something to ignore and to call the gas co. turned out the gas valve was leaking by after it shout off, I wouldn’t have ever found that with the soapy bubbles!
Hey Ted did you get your drive way all repaired and paved after the water pipe broke??
My vote would have also protect wire going through cabinet. from 4th generation family plumbing / hvac contractor. Nice crawl space
Good job !! That things headed to a meltdown. I’m with you it needs to vacate the premises
Those old Goodman furnaces don't need to be that hot on the exhaust housing maybe warm to the touch but not so you can't touch it. I see them melt before but due to the motor burn up. IMO its clogged. I like hanging my units on strut, 1/2" plywood with a metal drain pan the whole length and width of platform with rod. Never had a problem of vibration from the unit. I've even used metal high hats to sit the unit on in the pan. Depending on application. I see why they hung that unit is cuz of the flood line on the house and surrounding area. Wonder if ya can cut open the vavle to see what caused it, maybe the coil. Good call on replacement of gas vavle.
I have had that problem on old cheeks back in the day and a few carriers it has always been for me someone replaced the draft inducer and did not put the restrictor (bushing) I guess you would call it on the draft inducer
Did you check the air filter and the blower wheel for debris? Also what is the difference between the return and outlet of the unit? That was a really good video. Thanks
It looks like there are two problems, bad high limit switch and airflow issue across the heat exchanger. Like you said the chamber area should never get that high. If the air flow across the heat exchanger is restricted, that would open the high temp switch prior to meeting the call on the thermostat, would it not? If limit switch is operating normally, this furnace would be experiencing premature shutdowns.
I know who the guy was he was replacing a AO smith commercial water heater . Yeah i thought the Pipe dope on a taper seal fitting was a little goofy but you are correct the only thing you MAY need is lubrication and it should be between the flare nut and the copper to reduce friction when tightening and stop gauling .Another issue i see is they have that exhaust right in front of the Basement fress air vent thats bad news . Have you ever thought of doing combustion analasys i do it to every unit youd be surprised how many installs have way high CO2 and Nox that isnt very efficient .
Ted good job on replacing the gas valve
I probably replaced valve and the control board same time if I am you not sure what it is at fault it could be ether or both
Time to calm down and relax after watching those da-gum chiefs win another Super Bowl. Thanks for the comfort Ted
I know the guy you're talking about. He puts dope on everything. LOL
It’s good enough for this neighborhood mama. 😁 I watch several, I really like Ted.
I've come across a few stuck valves in my time. They may hang open slightly on one try, they might work fine a dozen other times. Scary situation for the homeowners for sure.
Have you ever seen the relay on the control board cause this problem?
All the supply registers open…in my experience, the secondary heat exchanger is clogged….one can still get the inducer motor assembly
Some thing fell out of the manifold pipe when you removed the gas valve. 9:30 Appox. It may have been a video fault or shadow, but some thing appeared to fall out of the pipe.
It may have been light reflection off of the black pipe. Sorry
Hi Ted. When you changed the valve, did you verify manifold pressure or clock the gas meter to ensure the furnace was not over fired. Checking the condensing heat exchanger, filter and ac coil is also a must.😊
I did set gas pressure but video is too long as it is.
@TedCookHVAC Good to know... you not watching the superbowl?
Kudos on finding the overly hot cold header and the resulting shut down on high limit, that said, I'm not sure why the unit "needs to go" nor why it is not worth at least attempting to clean. I agree that the induction blower was old and might be difficult to source but that's a guess at this point. The burners seemed to be burning well as is evidenced by the unaffected flame when the blower came on. Too often I feel like the HVAC industry has a "needs to go" mentality that gives customers the opinion that upselling is all they're about. Just my opinion, for what it's worth, and an admitted advocate for the customer.
Not worth spending 1200 to 1500 to repair when 4800 gets a new one with 10 years Wtty.
fair enough. Woo hoo Chiefs!!@@TedCookHVAC
What do think about the new V coils for the Carrier brand?
I just had one similar, the gas was leaking both at the meter union and from the crawl...it sucking into the return ductwork in the crawl through and cracks it could find and blowing out the supply and into the house. How the gas company "Didn't find anything" really makes me wonder. I found it easily.
I can attest that you didn't use a wheel puller one time in the removal of that gas valve ... Thx
LoL
That's a good repair right there
Torque on that valve might be why the last one stuck with that big diaphragm. I'd check the manifold pressure.
Did you leave your manometer home today? I ALWAYS check the gas out when I replace a valve. Most are set about 4” so they work on anything
A furnace that old and that hot with hard to replace parts is a prime candidate for a (fatal) heat exchanger leak. Best to replace...
My mom got a new house 4 years ago. Its a modular. It came with a miller furnace. 2 summers ago the contactor on the AC shorted out and blew the fuse. Last week she calls me and has no heat. I went over and fuse was blown again. It blew soon as gas valve opened. I pulled the wires off and fuse didnt blow anymore. My question is could there something underlying that keeps shorting outputs out or is it just they dont make things like they used to?
Yup, I’ve seen that guy dope up a compression fitting, he claims it lubricants the joint. 😅
A while back on one of my service calls I found a leak on the valve around knob when I press down for pilot it stopped leaking once I let off it started again just my experience not knocking yours
Is that a 3/8 In OD gas flex line? Looks like 22 In long. Natural gas 60K BTU input. Looks small from my armchair.
Any flood update? Hopefully those trucks are back on the road…
Nice stand up crawl for a change. I can’t believe that high temperature plastic can stand those extremes without distorting. She gotta go!
Id be willing to bet that the secondary HX is plugged. Find that quite often on the old Bryant/Carrier 90+ furnaces. The top of the furnace will get so hot that you cant hardly touch it
Clogged internally or externally? I've always wondered if internally it could cause high limit
Doing a meter test on the gas meter, [ Turning off all gas appliances , shutting valves on piloted appliances ] and moving the 1/2 foot hand to 6 oclock, marking it, and watching it for 5 /10 minutes , if it moves , you have a gas leak.
I am a Licensed Aircraft Mechanic and don't know enough about home HVAC to criticise any of your work. I would, however, hire you to work on my system any time.
Is that furnace safe as it is?
Temp. Rise: 40-300° 😮
That just doesn't seem safe.
Seems like I can hear the gas flex line whistling the instant the gas valve opens.
If you had just put some dope on that flex connector it would have fixed all those issues at the end
She's a leaker mama!
Good to hear the soft spoken Carolinian once again; if it's fixable, Ted's the guy that can do it.
All the safety equipment we have on a furnace but nothing to tell us that the gas valve stuck
open
So what did they say about replacing the furnace
That’s not nice leaves with a TBC cliff hanger. What happened did you repair or replace the unit or still waiting on customer to make a decision???
Set new valve gas pressure?
Can that flu terminate that close to crawl space vent?
I think you called it right shes past it.
It could be relace, when it's that old. I bet next problem will be the heat exchanger leaks.
Run what you brung 😅
Secondary heat exchanger is probably choked by lint, hair or dust. Oops, ya beat me tuit.
Having the furnace flue pipe right next to a crawl space vent has to be a code violation?
That furnace getting that hot seems a little on safe to me lol
They call that a "cold header" and it's anything but cold! That ain't right!
tiny little gas line
Where is the fresh air coming from it only has a single vent pipe; I have a feeling it is not installed correctly because it needs a fresh air intake along with the exhaust vent pipe I'd be willing to bet the fresh air inlet is blocked causing a vacuum instead a air flow circuit.
Looks like it was set up to be able to be plugged into a portable generator.
Replacement time 🤷♂️
You don't set the gas prusher
clean it up, run for another 10 years
checking static pressure could tell you what is wrong,2 cents.Tag out.
When you’re a gas company and you won’t do anything to fix . What is the point in having gas companies if they won’t do much beyond ?
Well they don't work on furnaces so they would have to know how to check the valve etc.....that's my guess
I still don't understand the doors put on with screws.
With something like this I would have replaced the whole thing wouldn’t want to be liable for someones death in case it happened again.
Anti-DIY? Someone's got to do it themself though.
Go ahead. Then call Ted.
1st.
Cannot believe you did not try to sell them a new unit, you always try to sell a new unit. Was it because they are fellow church members.
I did quote a new furnace
Any number of things could be ready to fail on such an old piece of equipment. The tech fixes what he/she was called out for, and the next day something else fails that the tech gets blamed for. Tech becomes married to the thing, so it's not worth it.
GMT line of Goodman. (GMNT) I worked on a lot of those.
Being up here in Spartanburg. May I ask for your honest opinion? I have a horizontal furnace with a slab coil. You prefer not to hang the furnace. I have a limited crawlspace I thought hanging would be better. But since you don't like hanging. What's your preferred method?