High Praise for the TREK LIME 3sp Auto Shift! + How to remove the rear wheel to replace a tube!
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- Опубликовано: 8 май 2024
- I've always been skeptical of these bikes, but after servicing 25 of them for a local school district, I've learned they are actually some of the best bikes ever produced. The 3 speed Shimano electronic autoshift system is surprisingly robust and I have yet to come across one that is broken. You can usually pick these things up for under $100 on Marketplace and as long as the tubes hold air, I bet everything still works great! The only real downside to these bikes is fixing a flat tire is a total pain in the a$$! But it's really not that big of a deal, as you will see in this video!
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I had no idea this existed. Now I want one.
Living in the Lime light, the universal dream...
The way the big wheels spins...
The addition of a Dutch wheel lock made this bike perfect for quick errands. Early ones came with a flip up seat that had storage for your wallet and keys.
Wow. I love this and hate this all at once. It's like art.
I was always impressed by how well they handled. Very stable. Didn't sell that well.
I saw one of these locked up really recently with all the decals off and I couldn't tell what was going on. Wild timing for this vid to drop.
I remember selling a few Limes when they debuted, and even though it's a well-made product it suffers the same basic design flaw that the Autobike and Landrider had: you don't ride it like a geared bicycle. When you ride a geared bike and want to go faster, shift up. Want to go slower? Shift down. What you don't do is just pedal faster/slower, at least not by more than a few rpm to bridge gear changes. Riding a fixie, sure, but on fixed gears the relationship between cadence and speed is perfectly linear. But with the Shimano Coasting system like the Lime had, if you want to go faster you furiously pedal until the computer initiates a shift, and then you immediately drop your cadence 20-30 rpm and settle into the gear. If you want to downshift before you start a climb up a hill, hopefully you're not attached to your momentum because that easier gear isn't going to come online until you've already lost it and if you're a casual rider without world-class thighs you probably lost a bunch of rpm too.
I get it, it wasn't marketed to enthusiast riders, or people riding for cardio and fitness. Hence the "coasting" name. But that crowd was never exactly mystified by analog 3 speed internal hubs, were they? I'm hardly a Luddite, I own and freely praise every version of electric shifting wizardry on offer, but Coasting was a huge miss for a reason.
Sounds like there weren't enough programming sensors. I owned a German folding bike with the Fictel-Sachs Automatic 2 speed it was just like you mentioned but as it was purely flyweight driven and could be reset to first gear at any speed just by lightly backpedalling for a second. It wasn't that big a problem with inclines. Sounds like the speed sensor had too lax a hysteresis algorithm for sensing when the rider's rpm had dropped below what would be comfortable shift down point as the bike slowed on an incline.
Some of those rubber Airless tires might be a good candidate for this one.. cool bike but jeeez, all that for a flat.
I'd be running marathon plus's with a thick tube filled with sealant if that was my bike!
I have hub gears on my Brompton and my Trek District. I usually just pop the tube out from under the tire and patch in place without removing the rear wheel.
@@MisterAndyS Perfectly good solution.
Three speed hubs oh no! I do not know why but I love watching work being done to a bike I would avoid. Next time lets put in new bearings, I would hate doing that.
I remember the Auto Bike infomercials from the 90's.
Fascinating. Never seen one before. A dynamo to power the shifter is clever alright. I’d own one in a state that was mostly flat if I was planning to ride it. Otherwise, collecting sounds like a better option. Cheers. 👍
that's why I really appreciate the roller brakes from Shimano as they work and have almost no wear. They are used in typical "oma fiets" or Holland bikes but also in many rental bikes. Everyone tells me "disc brakes are the only good braking system" but the roller brakes on my Bakfiets cargo trike work reliably even with heavy load and rain.
well to be fair, brake performance isn't great on roller brakes...😅
@@MetalTiger88 it is great compared to rim brakes, at least the Shimno ones they still sell. It's not meant for fast e- bikes or downhill. but they don't need re-adjustments. Only some grease every couple of years and maybe a new brake wire.
@@FuchsHorst a good adjusted v, brake or cantilever brake is much more aggresive then a roller brake. but even though the brake performance on a roller brake is lacking, it will at least run forever, i only replaced one in 20years so far.
@@MetalTiger88 Brake power suffices for the rear.
shimano does make the best coaster brake. most modulation and best actuation -you can mount or drop curbs fairly easily without setting it off
You have a knack for understanding design from the engineer's perspective and then disseminating it to us in ways we can understand. The reasons behind design.
I remember when these came out. Honestly, I really don't think I understood the concept back then. It feels like the Globe bikes series came out about the same time and those kinda had my attention at the time. I wonder who was behind these? Really smart idea (that went right over my head)
I love simplicity. I'm building a 3 speed coaster brake now. I also have a 7. I don't think I'd like a computer choosing when to change gears.
Fantastic 😻 love the look and the techy shifting with no brake levers. Cool video. Thanks
Awesome video, as always! I was today years old when I found out this existed! As a 3 speed aficionado, I really like this bike. My only concern is relying solely on the coaster brake. I genuinely like coaster brakes but I understand their limitations, so I would add a front rim brake for safety, even if I would usually just use the coaster.
Great use for that DiamondBack frame😁🤘🤘
First time seeing or hearing about these! Wow. Very interesting. A test ride to see how it feels would be great!
I have a recent yard sale find - an aluminum frame with coster brake - Trek custom cruiser . I was pondering whether I do a clunker , rat rod or even low rider . After the first ride , why fix what ain't broke . It has an amazing ride and comfort . And Hey ! It still looks cool.
Loved my lime,great commuter,just couldn't or wouldn't work on it! Gave up to an ex,and she sold it,wish I'd kept it,it was fun to ride!! Good luck finding used ones,tough to find!!
I used to data processing for a company that sold the “Auto-Bike”, it used weights and centrifugal force to shift a derailleur. It actually worked pretty decent, just don’t ever leave it outside in the rain, it was a nightmare to get working again. The parent company gave a bunch of us one for free, I never would have spent the money to buy one. It was a decent working gimmick, but it was still a gimmick.
I was going to email this, but the 'about' link on your youtube isn't there. I wanted to say, having been a bicycle mechanic (at a local co-op shop recently, and prior to that, some 40 years ago at another shop), that I love these videos. Being naturally sarcastic (me), your style is just up my alley. In my most recent stint at the co-op shop, we were a teaching shop. People bring bikes in, and we'd teach them how to do repairs and maintenance. I'm finding that almost all of your processes are identical to what I'd tell people. (The only notable difference is I tend to grease the inside of cable housings instead of TriFlow'ing them. Other wise, keep up the great work, and anyone that doesn't like your style, well.... They're wrong, and you're right :-)
that is as complex as the sturmey archer hub in my dahon folding bike. i needed new parts for it but i had to be creative to maintain it after a cable change.
I would love one of those bikes. May be a bit hard to find in Australia:)
Those chrome hubs look awesome. Thanks BF.
Great video. Thanks for sharing.
There was once a company that made a snake tube which made it possible to change the tube while wheel remained on the bike.
I just take a longer tube, cut it, tie knots in it, shove it in.
I'd just run the most puncture "proof" tires as possible to avoid roadside hassles. I run Panaracer Tourguard Plus on my Nexus 7 equipped Bianchi Milano and as soon as the current tires wear out on the 700c converted Fuji/Marlboro folder, they will be replaced with Schwalbe Marathon Plus.
I bought a pair of Continental Tour Ride (now Ride Tour) tires in 2015 and continue to buy them because I haven't had a single flat in 9 years. They used to be cheap - first pair were $22 each.
@ericsande5345 good to know, just in case I can't get either of the two I'm already used to.... thanks!
Good choice, that's just what I do on my single speed commuter. The schwalbes are very heavy, but when you leave the office at 9 at night and it's raining and 5 C. outside, you are very, very glad you have them.
Secondary benefit is they roll really well, when you're up to speed they are very low resistance.
And they last a long, long time. I used to replace cheaper tires once a year, I've had my current pair of Marathon Plus for 5 years now. So in the end you save a lot, despite their higher price.
I commuted on a lime every day for 10 years through Wi winters. Loved it and hated it. Was a pain in the ass to change tires. Not great on hills, but otherwise indestructible and fun to ride.
It's about time! I LUVVVV this bike!! May I please buy THAT one?!?! No Joke!!
I see them all the time on marketplace for like 50 bucks never knew about the auto shift hub pretty sweet.
Interesting, a couple months back I bought one of these for my wife, I was curious about the auto shift. I have a bit of experience with internal gear hubs and wanted to see how they integrated a Alfine type hub into an auto shift system. A month ago I found one for myself. The Lime is unique and I enjoy the oddball tech in some areas of cycling but I think the Lime may be suited to a different market than one found in the US. As far as you tube patching, I think you could have left the wheel on, get the tire off the rim, find the hole patch it, and be on with it. I thought you were going to adjust the shifting or something but not need. Speaking of shifting you may want to cover in a short video how the servo in the "computer box" can be adjusted so that the shifts come at different speeds (I read a document that claimed, factory setting was to shift at 8 and 11 MPH). Did you happen to measure the rear dropouts?
Anyway, you say you may want to buy a few of these for you shop, mine is for sale and I am just down the road
Like you, I collect weird orphan bikes like the Auto-Bike and the LandRider, and I'd grab a Lime if one ever presented itself locally. The Schwinn Nancy used the same componentry as the Lime and I did miss an opportunity with one of those. This is going to be a very interesting vid!
The LandRider uses a belt & pulley system with counter-weights at the derailleur. When I had a flat on that bike, I just pulled the tube aside and patched it while the wheel was still mounted in the dropouts. Seemed easier than dealing with all the gadgetry.
I worked in a Chicago bike shop for years and I remember going to the Trek World conference when this bike came out and Trek had a huge group Lime ride through Madison. The bike was really fun to ride, among my other bikes, I had a 3-speed cruiser at the time that I used to bar hop in Chicago... I preferred the cruiser with the nexus 3 because of the style and fenders, but the lime was so light and fresh looking... trek just focused on selling stupid color-match accesory bits rather than fenders and commuter accesories ... or chasing the euro city bike trends that were flooding the city at the time... the bike was basically dead in the water in our shop. I think shimano pulled the plug on the "cruise" shifting tech after trek bombed this product release.
Really like the dynamo self powered feature. I want one!
...and a 50 pound Raleigh Superbe Dawn Tourist for both ends of the 3 speed spectrum!
Yeah, I wish these came out about 5-ish years later. I was working at a bike shop that specialized in Treks when the Lime came out, but I was still in my bike racing phase. I recognized the utility and robustness of this bike, but if a bike wasn't lighter than 25 lbs, it didn't make sense to me. Oh, to be young and dumb again...
True art , and great design
Bike seems really cool on paper, I really dont like how it looks. something about the metal dome hubs is giving retro 50s vibes that the rest of the bike doesnt share.
Honestly, I'd take all the parts off of that Trek frame and put them all on a cruiser frame, like Huffy's "Perfect Fit" frame.
Get it looking good in two-tone gloss black + dark silver, with bright chrome accents, and that bike would look like it rolled off the line in 1955.
I too never knew this Trek line existed. I have to think I'd change a couple of things imediately. Get rid of the stupid auto shift, if you want a bullet proof internial geared wheel, go with a Nexus, and the silly looking dome covers over the wheel nuts.... So, take the basics of what Trek did, change it into a manual 3 speed, or fixed.... and off ya go.
If tubeless wasn’t such a pain for the riders this bike is intended for, that would probably be the way to go.
I had this bike for a while as a city bike. However I’m an avid cyclist and the shift points of the auto shift drove me nuts. I should have known better that I needed to be in control and choose my shifts when I want them, not when the system does it for me.
I had one of those! I know you’re in WI, but there were many brands that ran the coasting drivetrain at that point. And Giant did a good job making that bike for Trek! 😂😂
It's always a good idea to add a few drops of gear oil to the hole the shift nail goes inside, ( it will directly lube the sun and planet gears..) as you never know how many miles the bike actually has. Don't over do it, just a enough to keep the oil inside from getting gummy.
I remember seeing a lot of infomercials in the late 90s or early 00s for an automatic transmission bike that used weights that would slide up and down the spokes of the rear wheel, and those weights would move the gears up or down as you sped up or slowed down. I guess the idea never caught on, because I never actually saw one in the wild.
For a bike innovation this must have been quite a radical one. Too bad the tire change looks like nightmare in field conditions
Do you like how the furniture polish works on matte finish bike?
is there a hidden storage compartment under the saddle??
But why does the generator hub not power integrated lights?
Would have been a logical choice for a design where convenience is prioritized. A shame.
Looks a lot like a small mini bike setup there are normally tolerances for chain tightness.
Not really bad just more work than your used to pretty good quality.
I had one of these in the stand recently! I thought the autoshift was pretty neat- but it was very polarizing in the shop.
Does that bike have the seat with the storage compartment in it?
Probably too collectible now, but damn! That would make a perfect winter bike! Nothing is really exposed to the snow/salt/snert.
Would it be quicker to leave the wheel on to do the repair?
I would use that go get into the society of three speeds
One of the guys who works at my bike shop owns two!
Appealing bike, but no way! To me, the issue with tire changes negates the usefulness
Not too mention it's inefficiency
Just patch the tube without taking the wheel off.
@@jamesconroy7030 that's actually a good idea. It may be a pain to work with around the bike but it will be easier.
@@timtaylor9590 Just make sure there's no glass, nails, etc still stuck in the tire for regular flats. Plus, you'd still have to take the wheel off to change the tire itself.
Clever system. Would be cool to see it built into a light aluminum frame, with seatpost - stem - bars - seat correspondingly light. And fenders.
You know, something a commuting cyclist might ride :)
It’s definitely a light bike and fenders can be added
Hey, you didn’t wash it down w Dawn and furniture polish and it looks like it would clean up really good!
You're right, You would never use this bike for a leisurely ride on a rough trail such as the C&O Canal. Too much work just to change a flat. It looks intimidating.
Wish you can encounter a TREK R200 too
I think that's more complicated and time consuming than changing a rear flat on my Brompton! I say 'I think' because I've never had a flat in nearly four plus years of owning it, bought new with Schwalbe Racer tires...go figure.
And yeah, never knew of the Lime, but I want one.
I think this bike would have sold better without the auto shift. Three speed hub shifters are simple and allow you to control shifting. The dynamo should power lights.
If it were belt drive, it would be the ultimate torque sensing mid-drive conversion. Flats happen so seldom any more, it isn't bad and still nothing near as awful as any hub motor fat tire e-bike.
Ebay, Local pickup in MI. $99
I've never seen these, but now at least if I do I'll have an idea of how it's supposed to work. Doubt I'd remember how to get the wheel off and on though.
You talked me into one...
Certainly a lot of to-do mechanism in that old single-speed bicycle hub and axle. Simple however. Wasn't designed to climb 30% grades or stop at the bottom of a mountain after reaching 50 mph.
I remember using, beating, wearing out the old 1-speed 20-inch bicycles in my childhood. Only brake was turning pedals backward. Only speed was my legs. Only hill climbing was my legs. The limitations were great, but I didn't expect to do more than the bike or my legs could accomplish. Simplicity.
I want to try one. I’m going to keep my eyes open. For one.
Do you have SRAM/Sachs DualDrive hubs in the states? very common in Europe from the 90s to the mind 2010s
I think those have gone out of production.
Sturmey Archer still make a 2-speed kickback shift hub, but you will never see it as original equipment on a bike. Only a few people who know what they are build them into wheels themselves.
@@PRH123 Yes, it's out of production since 2018 but so is the Shimano auto shift hub shown in this video.
They're here, but they're very rare. I've only seen two of them.
If I come to pick it up, what would you charge me?
I WANT THIS TOO!
I, for one, welcome our new three speed automatic robot overlords...
You should have a Ope! Jar.
No fenders though?
This is the kind of flat I would just repair with sealant.
Old Ope dropped another vid.
and I thought rear drive ebikes were a pain to remove the wheel ...... Wonder if one of those ebike tubes would work on this - the one that isn't a loop so you can replace the tube without removing the wheel
15:03
I like to call em goo toobs
That was amazing. I never even knew that shifting system existed. It’s a great system and I wonder where it might have led to had Shimano continued its development or is the Nexus the outcome? Maybe someone can enlighten me..? 👍🏼
Nexus came long before this system. It's an addition to nexus.
Probably a good market for it with city rental bikes, or e-bikes. As far as I've seen in many countries, most all city rental bikes have Shimano 3 speed nexus systems.
@@PRH123 Thank You 👍🏼
Yep, still not as tough as my 4 speed internal, coaster brake or my 7 speed roller cam
I can't imagine how much you would have to charge to do a flat repair on one of these
I wanted see u ride it
lol u better back a dinner take u long time change that on side of road
Very coooooooool
Designed by the Trek German engineer maybe .🧐
Imagine having to fix a puncture on this thing by the roadside in the rain.
Need some solid tires on that thing.
Cool
Be very gentle with that shifting actuator. It looked to me like you handled it roughly. It was dangling around by the control wire and the rubber boot was opened up. That looks like a spot water can get into. I'd be packing that boot joint with a dielectric grease in both directions. Overall the bike looks like a nice simple functional bike but the engineering is poor and could be improved. I think the English had it right the first time with the Sturmy Archer hubs.
Just patch the tube without taking the wheel off (unless you're changing the tire too). Work smarter, not harder.
I would tape the rims and try to go tubeless
Back when I was just a young engineer, I had a Schwinn 3-speed with that "Sturmey Archer" gear selector on the handlebar. I guess that must have been a primitive arrangement. My poor little right index finger and thumb, getting all blistered and callused from clicking that lever, 1 to 2 to 3 to 2 (headwind or climb), back to 3. Terribly laborious -- oh, wait, no it wasn't. I must be missing something here. Regardless of how clever it is, why does a person need an automatic transmission for his bike? Really, I don't get it.
Why do people need automatic transmissions for their cars?
I have the Shimano Nexus di2 on my cargo bike, which also has an automatic mode. It's absolutely great, just very convenient.
Taking a wheel off that reminds me of the process of removing the rear wheel of 74’ Honda CB550…. Way too many bolts and parts for the average cyclist to lose
lol. Cool unless you need to change a flat. No way. I count five tools needed not including levers. 😳
It takes me about 30 minutes to an hour to do at home, when I change from winter to summer tires and back. On my giant single speed with horizontal dropouts, drum brake, and fenders (so no shift cable). Would not be fun to do out on the road, especially at night. Which is one reason I use Schwalbe marathons, to make sure it never happens.
(have had one flat in 5 years, knock on wood, but was able to patch the tube without removing the wheel)
How awful would that be if you got a flat a few miles from home? Good concept but I think that's why it failed.
I want to own one but never work on it.
I'll pass, thanks!
I’m just getting into biking, and bought an older used Trek 6500 Alpha ZX in yellow, for $200 with a few upgrades from the previous owner. I really like the bike, but can’t find a whole lot of information on it. I’m not sure what I’m looking for, but just curious on others’ opinions on it, or can tell me anything else about it.
*explains why it's such a geniusly designed product for a long while* *proceeds to show excruciating 23 step process to change flat tire*.
Lol
Wooooooooooooody
Is it for sale?
Sarcasm code for - "It makes me throw-up!"