AD’s near me are an absolute ripoff with no deals at all. I’ve bought from Jomashop with zero issues and the watch is brand new just much less cost . I don’t think it’s a roll of the dice so much now. There’s also quality control issues from an AD. I think AD’s are overrated.
The only thing that I worry about when buying from gray market dealers like Jomashop, is when I buy something with a complication. I really wanted a Longines Master Collection Moonphase with the triple date and chronograph complications. I don’t know if I trust Jomashop to service this watch if there’s a problem with this very complicated watch. If I’m buying a simple 3 hand watch, I’d happily buy from Jomashop.
I love the boutique experience authorize dealers provide. It's a luxury watch and the whole experience feels better knowing where it comes from, having champagne during the sale and being sent home with another high end champagne bottle, then stopping in and saying hi to your sales advisor who lights up the minute you come through the door. Having said all that, I just bought my first Omega from Costco. The price was less than half and the return policy is a full year. I paid for my champagne this time and still saved over 10K.
Hey Bruce - Thanks for sharing your opinion. I've personally bought a few watches from Jomashop - including some higher end like Omega and Cartier and never had an issue.
You can buy grey market and still send the watch to the manufacturer for servicing. You just have to pay for the servicing because you don't initially have a warranty. Although, the servicing itself comes with a warranty, so once you service the watch it's as good as one bought from AD. You might say there's a "roll of the dice" when you buy grey market, but the bet is not the price of the watch. The bet is just the price of factory service. And if the grey market price plus servicing is still a lot cheaper than buying at the AD, grey market makes more sense.
True and if Rolex decides you have franken parts they will hold your watch hostage and charge you up the wazu to replace the assemblies. Some brands wont touch them. Of course only if something shady went down which is not the case everytime
True bought an invicta 40mm Sellita Swiss movement and has the same invicta warranty and bought at jomashop. Also know this is an old stream but just commenting it
3:53 I was instantly stunned by that piece in a reptile strap before knowing what it was. Took me a while to come to terms with the fact that it's a Timex. Lovely surprise.
I've bought 6 Omegas, 5 Rolex, 3 ORIS and others all new on the gray market with not a single problem at all so far. My nearest AD is hours away. Maybe I've been lucky so far but as far as warranties go I can just pay for service in 10 years which I'd have to do anyway.
Hey Bruce, I agree with almost everything in this video. HOWEVER, in parts of Europe and Asia, grey market dealers also give the manufacturer’s warranty cards. In the US, you might call that pre-owned, but these watches are brand new stickers and all. Interesting difference.
Having the card doesn’t mean that they entered YOUR name into the manufacturer’s system and registered that serial number and your name with the sales date. Having a card or piece of paper doesn’t mean you have warranty coverage if you aren’t registered by the AD as the original owner
A lot of misconceptions on what grey is. Grey market is 100% legal and 100% genuine. If they sell you a Rolex with non Rolex parts, it is ILLEGAL. Jomashop is big business, they aren’t going to risk their legit status and be shut down by selling you fakes or watches with knockoff parts etc. also, if it says new, to be legal, it has to be new. You can run into a situation where the original box isn’t included, like if it were a display model, etc. If you see two of the same items listed but one is cheaper, it could be it’s missing a box or pillow or paper. I suggest calling or emailing first to verify what all you’re getting. P.s Rolex won’t hold your watch hostage if it has a non Rolex part in it, they simply won’t do the service. Lol it’s not legal for them to steal your property. If the watch itself is fake, it can be destroyed, but there is a burden of proof and due diligence process that has to happen first.
Joma tells you right on the product page if it's actually in stock or not. Just saying, the only issue there was that perhaps you didn't catch that (or maybe they hadn't updated their site).
The Hebrew Barrister Jomashop is very legit. They’re nice people to work with. All my watches purchased from them are brand new and look like they just got assembled from the factory! Good prices too!
What a coincidence, I just got off the phone with jomashop after receiving an email from them October 20th that my watch that I was on a waiting list for was in. They are saying it is going to ship this Wednesday, November 6th. I still have my fingers crossed. Thank you
I appreciate your take on grey market and I think this video will be helpful for those just getting into the watch game. I bought a Tudor Black Bay from Jomashop a few weeks ago for my birthday. I saved hundreds of dollars, got the watch in 3 days and LOVE the watch.
I've used Jomashop for my basic/entry luxury watch purchases (i.e. Longines, Oris, Tissot, Hamilton) and things have fared well. I have not, and will not, use Jomashop (or any other grey market dealer) for my higher end pieces that range from Omega to VC.
Hi Bruce, just wanted to let you know this video assisted in my decision on my most recent and most expensive watch purchase I have ever made. I planned to go grey market but after this video I went to the closest AD rolex shop and purchased a Datejust 41 with blue dial! Great watch great final decision, feel I will sleep better because of it, thanks for the content.
What's that you said about setting the time between 8pm and 4am? Are you not supposed to do this? I've heard about the date setting at 6 o'clock, but will setting the time damage the watch?
Great video! I happily got my Aquis at the local AD recently. It ended up being about $200 more after the discount they offered than if I got it on a gray market site. If you get a great sales rep, I would pay that every time. The experience and relationship building as you mentioned is worth it. I have never seen an Aquis close to $700. Living in Canada is rough hahaha.
I know this is an old video but what do you think about buying gray market from eBay where they send out to an authorization place? I mean at that point they would run through the watch to ensure everything is perfect before you get it. Which eliminated that issue I understand there’s still the issue of warranty but at least someone is looking at this watch to ensure it’s working correctly and that it’s 100% authentic
It's Time My local dealer (Jared’s) takes 20% off no matter what watches they sell (including Omega, Tag, Longines, Breitling, etc). Which is not bad at all!
I bought a Seiko Cocktail time from the local AD. A day after, the watch just stopped. I wound it, and it happened 2 more times within the week. I returned it for a full refund. I was very fortunate I bought it from an AD. I doubt that would have been as smooth a return if it was bought through the grey market.
This is great, I just emailed you about this topic. Then found this vid. Looking to buy my first luxury watch, Omega. Wasn’t sure which way to go. Thoughts on Amazon? Thx!
I think grey like Jomashop is the best way to save money, AD is more for conservative people who are afraid to buy online, this is an old-world- at least in my country the prices of AD are total craziness
Thanks for the video Bruce. I'm waiting on my new Omega Speedmaster purchased from AD. I could have saved a good chunk of money buying same watch on gray market, but was able to get a small discount (roughly 13% off retail). Between the discount and 5 year manufacturers warranty, I can rest easy.
Once I bought Seiko Astron from grey market with 2 years warranty from the seller. After 1,5 years the movement began to slow some issues. I contacted the seller and after few emails I returned the watch for repair. They were not able to fix it and gave me full refund.
Why would I spend $500k with a AD on a RM white ceramic bubba watson when I can get it from a reputable grey market dealer for $250k? And can't I sell it for full market price at $500k? (in which if it matters at all you can just sell it for full price and buy back one from the AD making a 50% ROI)...
OoooooooR ....... They are DIRECT unload from the manufacturer who had extra stock! Let's try to be honest at least on where Grey Market supply comes from.
Parson Wilkerson El primero Defy 21 skeleton. Amazing watch I have one. Amazing watch. One “minor complaint”. In person, it’s actually difficult to just look at it and read the time.
Bruce, can I ask something? Which one is worth to buy (Seamaster Diver 300), the 2500D (April 2018) or 8800 (August 2019). Both are in black and second hand. The price for 2500D is about $2900 and 8800 is $3900. Personally I prefer the 2500D in term of size, but the difference of a grand and waving dial on 8800 is tempting as well.
Also, make sure you know a good watchmaker you can work with personally that is certified to service all your watches. The right person will do just as good or better than sending watches to the manufacturer for service/repair.
In Europe a lot of so called Grey market dealers get all their watches from an authorized dealer network. This means that you get a brand new watch with the manufacterer's warranty for a good price. The only thing you don't get is the boutique experience. Is this warranty thing so different in the States?
The comment that "you might have to wait"( if the Grey market dealer has to source the watch) is all very well - but how long do you have to wait for a Rolex at an AD? 2 years? 5 years? For ever?! Is *that* acceptable? When you are paying RRP?! I thought this presentation was a little biased and unbalanced Bruce. Why are genuine customers being treated rather poorly by a couple of premium watch brands -that clearly can't supply stock to their AD's (in any reasonable time frame)? And why wasn't it mentioned that this clearly has an adverse effect on the aftermarket price of these watches? Why aren't these brands doing anything about this? Isn't this approach by the brands simply condoning price gouging? Withholding a guarantee card 12 months simply penalises the consumer ( not the watchmaker and AD)... Why weren't these rather real and relevant AD issues dealt with in your presentation? Thank you.
I've never waited more than a couple weeks for a Rolex, but I am no fool by going in and asking for steel skydwellers and daytonas. I've never had a warranty card held at an AD. I don't blame Rolex for the insane demand for their product. Opposite, I applaud them for being highly successful and desirable. I've only had good experiences at ADs across multiple brands. Some people say that is because I have a channel and it is essentially cost of advertising for ADs to treat me well. Half the time though no one knows who I am. I just look like some fat bum with spikey hair. I don't agree with your comment, you just sound plain salty brotha
So, because I bought my Seiko SRPD 21 from Macy's I'm screwed on the manufacturer's warranty? That doesn't make sense to me. One would think that a nationwide leading retailer would be recognized as an AD.
Hey Bruce, great video! Total agreed on the opinion. Bought a claimed BNIB Rolex Submariner from a very reputable with multiple positive reviews from trust pilot on that particular dealer, end up it is a used piece.
Best thing to do is go into whichever AD carries the brands you like most. Go meet them and chat watches for a while. Tell them what watches you are interested in and your timeframe
Agreed about limiting grey mkt buys to lower end watches and that’s what Jomashop does well. But for any watch of consequence the AD route is safest. Great presentation
I've always been scared to buy watches grey market...I've bought sunglasses grey market...that's it. I personally wouldn't take the chance.Having said that I can also say I had issues with my Tag Heuer bought from an AD. The thing is the warranty work cost me zero and it was fixed. So all I can say is that I think Bruce is right on target here.
Except for Rolex, most brands ADs will give you a very aggresive discount to make the sale. I just bought a new VC Overseas 4500 in blue dial for $15,200 from an AD. That is cheaper than grey market and second hand.
sethmorley1969 That is excellent. Do you recall the name and the location of the dealer? I’ll be in Italy next month and with those discounts it is worth paying him a visit.
Jomashop and Ashford are the only grey market dealers I would buy from. They have a good return policy. But then again, still a risk. I would say anything below $1500, buy grey market. Anything above that, not worth it. I bought an Omega Aqua Terra from Jomashop and was lucky that it all worked out fine. But that’s just my luck lol.
There are grey market dealers that are providing full international manufacturer's guarantee on all watches, and each warranty card is stamped by an authorized dealer or official concessionaire.
Great advice Bruce especially about the importance of building a relationship with your AD. I just started my relationship this summer and now have 3 great and desirable watches- picked up the sub date last week!!
Malik Martin...This is not true. They will still service or fix the watch bought outside of the AD network, but it won’t be paid for under warranty if it is still under warranty.
I love the new Seamaster "Great White" (white dial) i cannot believe it, such a beauty. Any chance you can arrange a review of that stunner. I guess that will make you the first one on RUclips, if i am not mistaken.
I purchased Burberry and Stella McCartney ladies' T-shirts from Jomashop and received counterfeit items. I own many Burberry and Stella McCartney T-shirts from Saks Fifth Avenue, so I can distinguish between authentic and counterfeit products. If something seems too good to be true, avoid it at all costs; it will only waste your time and money.
I could have gotten my Omega Seamaster for around 400 dollars cheaper than what I purchased it for from a legitimate grey market dealer. I chose to purchase from an AD as the estimated wait time was around 3 months from the grey market dealer. Keep in mind with everything happening around the world, shipping ect is all taking a hit. Got offered 20% off retail price in the end so all in all AD aren't so bad.
For similar pricing, I've had better luck with grey market pieces than with pre-owned pieces. I mainly used ebay instead of dealing with a grey directly. My last new watch arrived doa. If you can't hold the thing before you buy it, it's a risk either way. Sure, there's warranty, but I don't have the wstch for another 6 six months.
Agreed all around. It feels one way to have your name on the card; and a whole other way when you don't. And it's one thing to save a couple hundred on a Glycene. But on the ones that hurt, better to just take the pain and go legit. I think I may take some pain today in fact. And when my AD calls, I will take some more.
I’ve bought a few watches from creation watches and all been ok eBay on the other hand! But I was looking at higher end stuff and chrono 24 keeps coming up in Europe.I’m in uk so am looking at them for a Hamilton purchase
Nice video - word of caution though about AD’s. I bought an Oris Aquis from a dealer who was not an Oris AD. Yeah, got the magical watch, but no manufacturer warranty. It’s basically a gray market watch except the jeweler will honor the warranty instead.
Things seem to be MUCH different in Germany / Europe. Here you have a lot of reputable "grey market" dealers that sell on- and some also offline. They have their own shops. And they actually DO have the official warranty from the manufacturer - no shady warranty from the dealer itself or bs like that. I bought most of my watches from grey market dealers, most located in Germany, some in Italy or France. Doesn't matter if they had cost 500 or 15000 Euros. So, my personal opinion is: Buy from a reputable dealer that offers full manufacturers warranty and you don't have a problem at all. Even if you have, you can go to any AD from that brand to let your watch get fixed. That's what the international warranty is for... but as I said in the beginning, such a honest grey market doesn't seem to exist in the US... Regarding the sources: Most of the above mentioned dealers are just selling watches that are Non-sellers from an AD. The AD needs to keep his money flowing and if a watch doesn't sell fast enough they probably sell them to their trusted grey market dealer(s). Brands don't want to see this as it mostly lowers the price of their pieces but in reality this happens pretty often. Grey market dealers can offer those prices because they buy pretty cheap from an AD and sell them with much less profit - because they earn their money due to the much higher sales numbers. Just to let you know how things in Germany / Europe work in the grey market. I personally NEVER bought a watch without the official manufacturers warranty.
excelerater if an AD does not have the watch you want in stock, as long as it is not a limited production watch and a highly demanded one, they can ordered for you and also apply the discount that they usually give. In some instances, even if it is a limited production watch, they can still order it for you. At least that is my experience. I only buy from grey market if the watch has been discontinued and it is no longer available at ADs.
1. Jomashop 2. AuthenticWatch 3. Prestige. Best gray market dealers ever. However, they all come second to my guy down the street who can get me anything. Just be careful shopping the gray.
To get a good price at an AD, one of the best thing is be a watch enthusiast and kinda become friends with them. They will typically give a good discount betting on repeat business. Recently I picked up an Omega 300M, I saw on crown and caliber they had it for about 4K. I went into the store I offered $4.2 . , he gave me a strange face and said something to the effect thats crazy. Than he said, are you gonna buy right now, and I got it. Id imagine July, August and October are the best times to buy as well. Also some brands are known for more discounts like Bell & Ross, Tag is always good for a healthy discount. So I paid a premium and maybe I could have gotten an even better deal with C&C with a coupon but its important to me to support the local economy and good service and personally I like the story of a watch to start new with me.
@Tom The Fish I agree, I got a Tudor Heritage Chrono Blue a few years ago and it ran fast. I brought it into the store, and the watch repair adjusted or demagnetized it he , showed me the inside, and taught me all about the watch and his opinions on watches in general.
Nah not all true. Got my speedmaster in grey market with warranty by Omega duly stamp by an AD in NL and dated. Visit my local Omega AD and they confirm warranty is valid. Price difference of 1700 usd of saving
i have an online retail business and let me tell you, you cannot trust grey market anything. Unless you can prove chain of custody back to manufacturer just assume it is not authentic, no matter who tells you differently.
Great advice, the one thing I would like to add is that there are different types of grey market dealers. There are those you mention like Jomashop and Ashford (have purchased from both without issue) who are great for lower end watches watches where there isn't a lot of risk. There are also the greys that are trusted forum sellers (bigger ones have websites etc), that sell with full kit and warranty. They are purchasing from AD's and acting as a middle man. In the current market, for hard to get watches (Rolex sport etc.) unless you want to pay a premium, you are better off just going to the AD and forming a relationship, plus its the best buying experience for what thats worth.
Hello everyone I am French and I did not understand everything in the video. if someone can write me what he just said I translate it on google. I want to buy a omega speedmaster moonwatch on the gray market is it a good idea?
Hey Bruce, I can't tell you how much this video helped me. I have been on the search for a Sub 114060 for a month or so. I was almost to the point of purchasing one from a grey market dealer in NY until I watched this. I put my purchase on pause and again called my local AD and wouldn't you know it? they just got one and I snapped it up on the spot. Love all your videos... Keep up the great work..
AD all the way… I have 17 watches only 2 GM and let’s you just say I should of learn my lesson on the first purchase… Just the worst experience…. Btw the first one was a fake Tissot from Jomashop
I'm buying a very expensive watch soon. Grey market deals look great and would save me over a thousand dollars. But, I'll go with an AD for peace of mind. Besides, I'm looking for something new so i can create my own experience with it before handing it down to my son. Thanks!
Great vid,I wanted to add that it seems like the grey market dealers have a disproportionate amount of faulty watches, from my experience. Does kind of make sense, manufacturers will get rid of their unwanted pieces first.
The only thing that is important from a Grey marked dealer is to make sure the warenty card is stamped by an AD. Then you have the same rights as if you bougt it in an AD store. The tricky thing is to trust the Grey marked dealer. Some high end brands AD works with Grey dealers for those models that are hard to sell.
This man talks facts. I work for a Rolex AD. If you’re always buying else where and you come in asking for Daytona, LV, Sky-dweller.. guess what. You’re not getting one
Ive bought plenty of watches thru joma and grey market sites. You do need to be careful. If its over a certain price i would go the AD route. For the prices im willing to take the risk if the watch is under 500
![Felix "Unfair" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Oswujxm2Ag0/mqdefault.jpg)
I tried to build a relation with Macy's but they never recognize me when I demand the newest Seiko Monster.
lol you are awesome
AD’s near me are an absolute ripoff with no deals at all. I’ve bought from Jomashop with zero issues and the watch is brand new just much less cost . I don’t think it’s a roll of the dice so much now. There’s also quality control issues from an AD. I think AD’s are overrated.
Where do you live, Ive heard that in big cities they dont discount. In the midwest, usually 15 to 20 is attainable and some people get more.
I've bought two Omegas from Jomashop. Zero issues at all. Can't beat the 4 year warranty they give either.
The only thing that I worry about when buying from gray market dealers like Jomashop, is when I buy something with a complication. I really wanted a Longines Master Collection Moonphase with the triple date and chronograph complications. I don’t know if I trust Jomashop to service this watch if there’s a problem with this very complicated watch. If I’m buying a simple 3 hand watch, I’d happily buy from Jomashop.
Jomashop sells fake watches. It's the reason why manufacturer won't warranty them
I love the boutique experience authorize dealers provide. It's a luxury watch and the whole experience feels better knowing where it comes from, having champagne during the sale and being sent home with another high end champagne bottle, then stopping in and saying hi to your sales advisor who lights up the minute you come through the door. Having said all that, I just bought my first Omega from Costco. The price was less than half and the return policy is a full year. I paid for my champagne this time and still saved over 10K.
ahaha
Hey Bruce - Thanks for sharing your opinion.
I've personally bought a few watches from Jomashop - including some higher end like Omega and Cartier and never had an issue.
Happy for ya Adriane
@@BruceWilliams I am also happy for her! sounds like she got an epic deal
You can buy grey market and still send the watch to the manufacturer for servicing. You just have to pay for the servicing because you don't initially have a warranty. Although, the servicing itself comes with a warranty, so once you service the watch it's as good as one bought from AD.
You might say there's a "roll of the dice" when you buy grey market, but the bet is not the price of the watch. The bet is just the price of factory service. And if the grey market price plus servicing is still a lot cheaper than buying at the AD, grey market makes more sense.
True and if Rolex decides you have franken parts they will hold your watch hostage and charge you up the wazu to replace the assemblies. Some brands wont touch them. Of course only if something shady went down which is not the case everytime
100% correct
True bought an invicta 40mm Sellita Swiss movement and has the same invicta warranty and bought at jomashop. Also know this is an old stream but just commenting it
3:53 I was instantly stunned by that piece in a reptile strap before knowing what it was. Took me a while to come to terms with the fact that it's a Timex. Lovely surprise.
I've bought 6 Omegas, 5 Rolex, 3 ORIS and others all new on the gray market with not a single problem at all so far. My nearest AD is hours away. Maybe I've been lucky so far but as far as warranties go I can just pay for service in 10 years which I'd have to do anyway.
May i know the website?thanks
Hey Bruce, I agree with almost everything in this video. HOWEVER, in parts of Europe and Asia, grey market dealers also give the manufacturer’s warranty cards. In the US, you might call that pre-owned, but these watches are brand new stickers and all. Interesting difference.
Having the card doesn’t mean that they entered YOUR name into the manufacturer’s system and registered that serial number and your name with the sales date. Having a card or piece of paper doesn’t mean you have warranty coverage if you aren’t registered by the AD as the original owner
A lot of misconceptions on what grey is. Grey market is 100% legal and 100% genuine. If they sell you a Rolex with non Rolex parts, it is ILLEGAL. Jomashop is big business, they aren’t going to risk their legit status and be shut down by selling you fakes or watches with knockoff parts etc.
also, if it says new, to be legal, it has to be new.
You can run into a situation where the original box isn’t included, like if it were a display model, etc.
If you see two of the same items listed but one is cheaper, it could be it’s missing a box or pillow or paper.
I suggest calling or emailing first to verify what all you’re getting.
P.s Rolex won’t hold your watch hostage if it has a non Rolex part in it, they simply won’t do the service. Lol it’s not legal for them to steal your property.
If the watch itself is fake, it can be destroyed, but there is a burden of proof and due diligence process that has to happen first.
Joma tells you right on the product page if it's actually in stock or not. Just saying, the only issue there was that perhaps you didn't catch that (or maybe they hadn't updated their site).
The Hebrew Barrister Jomashop is very legit. They’re nice people to work with. All my watches purchased from them are brand new and look like they just got assembled from the factory! Good prices too!
This was years ago, I don't think they did that back then
What a coincidence, I just got off the phone with jomashop after receiving an email from them October 20th that my watch that I was on a waiting list for was in. They are saying it is going to ship this Wednesday, November 6th. I still have my fingers crossed. Thank you
Bought 4 watches from them. All arrived perfect in one day (I’m in the next state). Very happy. Make sure the item is in stock.
I appreciate your take on grey market and I think this video will be helpful for those just getting into the watch game.
I bought a Tudor Black Bay from Jomashop a few weeks ago for my birthday. I saved hundreds of dollars, got the watch in 3 days and LOVE the watch.
I've used Jomashop for my basic/entry luxury watch purchases (i.e. Longines, Oris, Tissot, Hamilton) and things have fared well. I have not, and will not, use Jomashop (or any other grey market dealer) for my higher end pieces that range from Omega to VC.
Hi Bruce, just wanted to let you know this video assisted in my decision on my most recent and most expensive watch purchase I have ever made. I planned to go grey market but after this video I went to the closest AD rolex shop and purchased a Datejust 41 with blue dial! Great watch great final decision, feel I will sleep better because of it, thanks for the content.
I believe it was Mark over at Longislandwatch who said if you have ever bought an SKX in the US even from him it's "gray" market.
What's that you said about setting the time between 8pm and 4am? Are you not supposed to do this? I've heard about the date setting at 6 o'clock, but will setting the time damage the watch?
Good video Bruce. Helping to educate those new to the watch world will save some beginners a lot of time and money. Keep up the good work!
Jomashop sells fake watches..... That's why the manufacturer don't warranty the watches
Great video! I happily got my Aquis at the local AD recently. It ended up being about $200 more after the discount they offered than if I got it on a gray market site. If you get a great sales rep, I would pay that every time. The experience and relationship building as you mentioned is worth it. I have never seen an Aquis close to $700. Living in Canada is rough hahaha.
100% agree with you Bruce. Thanks again for a great informative video
I know this is an old video but what do you think about buying gray market from eBay where they send out to an authorization place? I mean at that point they would run through the watch to ensure everything is perfect before you get it. Which eliminated that issue I understand there’s still the issue of warranty but at least someone is looking at this watch to ensure it’s working correctly and that it’s 100% authentic
I received 1200 off my Seamaster 300 Pro. purchased from an authorized dealer.
It's Time My local dealer (Jared’s) takes 20% off no matter what watches they sell (including Omega, Tag, Longines, Breitling, etc). Which is not bad at all!
Oh man i got screwed I only got 1000 and i thought that was great. I got the blue.
Another Super Video Bruce. Thanks for all this info I've learned a few things here today.
Over the past four years I've purchased two Rolex watches from Jomashop and never had any problems.
I bought a Seiko Cocktail time from the local AD. A day after, the watch just stopped. I wound it, and it happened 2 more times within the week. I returned it for a full refund. I was very fortunate I bought it from an AD. I doubt that would have been as smooth a return if it was bought through the grey market.
For sure, those things happen its just a matter of time the longer you collect watches
I’m sure a greymarket dealer has it now.
This is great, I just emailed you about this topic. Then found this vid. Looking to buy my first luxury watch, Omega. Wasn’t sure which way to go. Thoughts on Amazon? Thx!
I think grey like Jomashop is the best way to save money, AD is more for conservative people who are afraid to buy online, this is an old-world- at least in my country the prices of AD are total craziness
Thanks for the video Bruce. I'm waiting on my new Omega Speedmaster purchased from AD. I could have saved a good chunk of money buying same watch on gray market, but was able to get a small discount (roughly 13% off retail). Between the discount and 5 year manufacturers warranty, I can rest easy.
would you mind sharing which AD you used?
What about a Tudor BB36? I know they use a top grade ETA movement, but do you think they modify it in any way?
Once I bought Seiko Astron from grey market with 2 years warranty from the seller. After 1,5 years the movement began to slow some issues. I contacted the seller and after few emails I returned the watch for repair. They were not able to fix it and gave me full refund.
which grey market did you buy this from?
Great video. You helped me make my decision! Will be subscribing to you brotha
Also buying from Japan, I don't think the warranty will work in North America and may have to send back to Japan
True that
Why would I spend $500k with a AD on a RM white ceramic bubba watson when I can get it from a reputable grey market dealer for $250k? And can't I sell it for full market price at $500k? (in which if it matters at all you can just sell it for full price and buy back one from the AD making a 50% ROI)...
OoooooooR ....... They are DIRECT unload from the manufacturer who had extra stock!
Let's try to be honest at least on where Grey Market supply comes from.
I wouldn't be surprised if this happens from time to time even if it is a massive undercut to their licenced distributors
A very informative and interesting video.A must for those new to watch collecting.
10:50 what is that Zenith?
Parson Wilkerson El primero Defy 21 skeleton. Amazing watch I have one. Amazing watch. One “minor complaint”. In person, it’s actually difficult to just look at it and read the time.
Sorry, the other zenith is. The one at 10:50 is not the defy 21
@@1bluensx I like the case shape they both have, Reminds me of a AP. but that is probably intentional.
Zenith Defy Classic
Very informative and helpful. Thank you.
Bruce, can I ask something? Which one is worth to buy (Seamaster Diver 300), the 2500D (April 2018) or 8800 (August 2019). Both are in black and second hand. The price for 2500D is about $2900 and 8800 is $3900. Personally I prefer the 2500D in term of size, but the difference of a grand and waving dial on 8800 is tempting as well.
Wish I had done this 3 years ago. I just paid 4800 for a seamaster professional 300. Prices going up on omega
what place is this at 9:22 ?
Also, make sure you know a good watchmaker you can work with personally that is certified to service all your watches. The right person will do just as good or better than sending watches to the manufacturer for service/repair.
In Europe a lot of so called Grey market dealers get all their watches from an authorized dealer network. This means that you get a brand new watch with the manufacterer's warranty for a good price. The only thing you don't get is the boutique experience. Is this warranty thing so different in the States?
The comment that "you might have to wait"( if the Grey market dealer has to source the watch) is all very well - but how long do you have to wait for a Rolex at an AD? 2 years? 5 years? For ever?! Is *that* acceptable? When you are paying RRP?! I thought this presentation was a little biased and unbalanced Bruce. Why are genuine customers being treated rather poorly by a couple of premium watch brands -that clearly can't supply stock to their AD's (in any reasonable time frame)? And why wasn't it mentioned that this clearly has an adverse effect on the aftermarket price of these watches? Why aren't these brands doing anything about this? Isn't this approach by the brands simply condoning price gouging? Withholding a guarantee card 12 months simply penalises the consumer ( not the watchmaker and AD)... Why weren't these rather real and relevant AD issues dealt with in your presentation? Thank you.
I've never waited more than a couple weeks for a Rolex, but I am no fool by going in and asking for steel skydwellers and daytonas. I've never had a warranty card held at an AD. I don't blame Rolex for the insane demand for their product. Opposite, I applaud them for being highly successful and desirable. I've only had good experiences at ADs across multiple brands. Some people say that is because I have a channel and it is essentially cost of advertising for ADs to treat me well. Half the time though no one knows who I am. I just look like some fat bum with spikey hair. I don't agree with your comment, you just sound plain salty brotha
thanks for the advice bruce. i waa just looking at the tudor heritage chronograph from the grey market.
on that one, go find a few AD's. I got one, it was clearance at 3.2 i got it for 3k. i think Tudor was revamping it somehow.
Great video. Very helpful and informative 👍
Did macys is a good place to buy brand watches even when they on sales like black Friday or Christmas time
So, because I bought my Seiko SRPD 21 from Macy's I'm screwed on the manufacturer's warranty? That doesn't make sense to me. One would think that a nationwide leading retailer would be recognized as an AD.
Isn't it though lol? That is a million dollar account with Seiko not a grey market site
Hey Bruce, great video! Total agreed on the opinion. Bought a claimed BNIB Rolex Submariner from a very reputable with multiple positive reviews from trust pilot on that particular dealer, end up it is a used piece.
Any grey market sellers you’d recommend?
how would i network just getting into the hobby while still really young and pursuing a relatively blue collar career field?
Best thing to do is go into whichever AD carries the brands you like most. Go meet them and chat watches for a while. Tell them what watches you are interested in and your timeframe
Agreed about limiting grey mkt buys to lower end watches and that’s what Jomashop does well. But for any watch of consequence the AD route is safest. Great presentation
Thank you Scott
I've always been scared to buy watches grey market...I've bought sunglasses grey market...that's it. I personally wouldn't take the chance.Having said that I can also say I had issues with my Tag Heuer bought from an AD. The thing is the warranty work cost me zero and it was fixed. So all I can say is that I think Bruce is right on target here.
How about chrono24? Japan sellers that mark the product as brand new and have overall good reviews?
I've never used Chrono 24. Never saw a decent price lol
Except for Rolex, most brands ADs will give you a very aggresive discount to make the sale. I just bought a new VC Overseas 4500 in blue dial for $15,200 from an AD. That is cheaper than grey market and second hand.
Yep, in Italy i was offered a 25% discount without even asking for a ALS 1815. Same AD sells also Breguet at 30% discount.
sethmorley1969 That is excellent. Do you recall the name and the location of the dealer? I’ll be in Italy next month and with those discounts it is worth paying him a visit.
I wish I could get a Overseas at 25% discount now. considering they are only being sold now in boutique, I doubt they will give any discount at all.
Jomashop and Ashford are the only grey market dealers I would buy from. They have a good return policy. But then again, still a risk. I would say anything below $1500, buy grey market. Anything above that, not worth it. I bought an Omega Aqua Terra from Jomashop and was lucky that it all worked out fine. But that’s just my luck lol.
There are grey market dealers that are providing full international manufacturer's guarantee on all watches, and each warranty card is stamped by an authorized dealer or official concessionaire.
Like who? Am trying to buy an Omega aqua terra or railmaster.
Great advice Bruce especially about the importance of building a relationship with your AD. I just started my relationship this summer and now have 3 great and desirable watches- picked up the sub date last week!!
Way to go! Pumped for you
I sat grey market is ok if you don’t have a hookup at AD... you can always get that initial discount but then send for service to the brand...
Many manufacturers' (e.g. Rolex) warranties apply to the watch, whether you buy from an authorised dealer or independent dealer.
Malik Martin For Rolex it most certainly is true.
Malik Martin...This is not true. They will still service or fix the watch bought outside of the AD network, but it won’t be paid for under warranty if it is still under warranty.
I love the new Seamaster "Great White" (white dial) i cannot believe it, such a beauty. Any chance you can arrange a review of that stunner. I guess that will make you the first one on RUclips, if i am not mistaken.
I'll see what I can do!
Seems like Omega is holding the white one close to it's chest. I haven't seen the piece anywhere yet
Hey bro, I’m a new subscriber to your channel. I’m trying to find out how to get a watch. Any info would be greatly appreciated
Great vid and great advice 👍🍻
Grey market under 2K. AD for Rolex. Reputable preowned dealer for everything else.
I purchased Burberry and Stella McCartney ladies' T-shirts from Jomashop and received counterfeit items. I own many Burberry and Stella McCartney T-shirts from Saks Fifth Avenue, so I can distinguish between authentic and counterfeit products. If something seems too good to be true, avoid it at all costs; it will only waste your time and money.
Great advice Bruce, thank you.
I ordered my Oris from Jomashop in July. Being patient, still waiting
I would totally buy via an AD, but the price difference is $1500. That's just way to much of a cost difference.
Thanks, mate. Nice video, very interesting, with some gorgeous watches.
Subbed 👍
Welcome
I could have gotten my Omega Seamaster for around 400 dollars cheaper than what I purchased it for from a legitimate grey market dealer. I chose to purchase from an AD as the estimated wait time was around 3 months from the grey market dealer. Keep in mind with everything happening around the world, shipping ect is all taking a hit. Got offered 20% off retail price in the end so all in all AD aren't so bad.
For similar pricing, I've had better luck with grey market pieces than with pre-owned pieces. I mainly used ebay instead of dealing with a grey directly.
My last new watch arrived doa.
If you can't hold the thing before you buy it, it's a risk either way. Sure, there's warranty, but I don't have the wstch for another 6 six months.
Agreed all around. It feels one way to have your name on the card; and a whole other way when you don't. And it's one thing to save a couple hundred on a Glycene. But on the ones that hurt, better to just take the pain and go legit. I think I may take some pain today in fact. And when my AD calls, I will take some more.
Debating between buying an authorized watch for $2500 or from an unauthorized deal (with great reviews) for $1,800.
That is some sound, valuable advice, no mather where you are in your journey.
I’ve bought a few watches from creation watches and all been ok eBay on the other hand! But I was looking at higher end stuff and chrono 24 keeps coming up in Europe.I’m in uk so am looking at them for a Hamilton purchase
Nice video - word of caution though about AD’s. I bought an Oris Aquis from a dealer who was not an Oris AD. Yeah, got the magical watch, but no manufacturer warranty.
It’s basically a gray market watch except the jeweler will honor the warranty instead.
Good video! 👍
Thank you Bruce you're a good man!
Grey Market. What does that mean? Does it just mean second hand? Grey Market makes it sound dodgy? Now I will.buy AD, as I couldn't spot a fake.
Thanks for providing such invaluable information as I am eyeing an omega seamaster professional. I will now buy only from the authorized dealer.
Things seem to be MUCH different in Germany / Europe. Here you have a lot of reputable "grey market" dealers that sell on- and some also offline. They have their own shops. And they actually DO have the official warranty from the manufacturer - no shady warranty from the dealer itself or bs like that. I bought most of my watches from grey market dealers, most located in Germany, some in Italy or France. Doesn't matter if they had cost 500 or 15000 Euros. So, my personal opinion is: Buy from a reputable dealer that offers full manufacturers warranty and you don't have a problem at all. Even if you have, you can go to any AD from that brand to let your watch get fixed. That's what the international warranty is for... but as I said in the beginning, such a honest grey market doesn't seem to exist in the US...
Regarding the sources: Most of the above mentioned dealers are just selling watches that are Non-sellers from an AD. The AD needs to keep his money flowing and if a watch doesn't sell fast enough they probably sell them to their trusted grey market dealer(s). Brands don't want to see this as it mostly lowers the price of their pieces but in reality this happens pretty often. Grey market dealers can offer those prices because they buy pretty cheap from an AD and sell them with much less profit - because they earn their money due to the much higher sales numbers. Just to let you know how things in Germany / Europe work in the grey market. I personally NEVER bought a watch without the official manufacturers warranty.
That is awesome! Would love if it was that way here in the states
Can you name some of those gray market dealers in Germany?
I had the same experience with Joma Shop simply trying to buy a SKX
some brands AD is the only way to go but the AD has no inventory LOL .
excelerater if an AD does not have the watch you want in stock, as long as it is not a limited production watch and a highly demanded one, they can ordered for you and also apply the discount that they usually give. In some instances, even if it is a limited production watch, they can still order it for you. At least that is my experience. I only buy from grey market if the watch has been discontinued and it is no longer available at ADs.
Very nice video,bravo!
1. Jomashop 2. AuthenticWatch 3. Prestige. Best gray market dealers ever. However, they all come second to my guy down the street who can get me anything. Just be careful shopping the gray.
To get a good price at an AD, one of the best thing is be a watch enthusiast and kinda become friends with them. They will typically give a good discount betting on repeat business. Recently I picked up an Omega 300M, I saw on crown and caliber they had it for about 4K. I went into the store I offered $4.2 . , he gave me a strange face and said something to the effect thats crazy. Than he said, are you gonna buy right now, and I got it. Id imagine July, August and October are the best times to buy as well. Also some brands are known for more discounts like Bell & Ross, Tag is always good for a healthy discount. So I paid a premium and maybe I could have gotten an even better deal with C&C with a coupon but its important to me to support the local economy and good service and personally I like the story of a watch to start new with me.
@Tom The Fish I agree, I got a Tudor Heritage Chrono Blue a few years ago and it ran fast. I brought it into the store, and the watch repair adjusted or demagnetized it he , showed me the inside, and taught me all about the watch and his opinions on watches in general.
Nah not all true. Got my speedmaster in grey market with warranty by Omega duly stamp by an AD in NL and dated.
Visit my local Omega AD and they confirm warranty is valid.
Price difference of 1700 usd of saving
i have an online retail business and let me tell you, you cannot trust grey market anything. Unless you can prove chain of custody back to manufacturer just assume it is not authentic, no matter who tells you differently.
Chronext is a reputable grey market dealer. Wonderful service and quick shipping
Bought 2 Omega watches at Chronext and agree.
Great advice, the one thing I would like to add is that there are different types of grey market dealers. There are those you mention like Jomashop and Ashford (have purchased from both without issue) who are great for lower end watches watches where there isn't a lot of risk. There are also the greys that are trusted forum sellers (bigger ones have websites etc), that sell with full kit and warranty. They are purchasing from AD's and acting as a middle man. In the current market, for hard to get watches (Rolex sport etc.) unless you want to pay a premium, you are better off just going to the AD and forming a relationship, plus its the best buying experience for what thats worth.
Hello everyone I am French and I did not understand everything in the video. if someone can write me what he just said I translate it on google. I want to buy a omega speedmaster moonwatch on the gray market is it a good idea?
Il dit que c est pas une Bonne idee
The Breitling scene is so cool!
Hey Bruce, I can't tell you how much this video helped me. I have been on the search for a Sub 114060 for a month or so. I was almost to the point of purchasing one from a grey market dealer in NY until I watched this. I put my purchase on pause and again called my local AD and wouldn't you know it? they just got one and I snapped it up on the spot. Love all your videos... Keep up the great work..
AD all the way…
I have 17 watches only 2 GM and let’s you just say I should of learn my lesson on the first purchase…
Just the worst experience…. Btw the first one was a fake Tissot from Jomashop
Early :)
I'm buying a very expensive watch soon. Grey market deals look great and would save me over a thousand dollars. But, I'll go with an AD for peace of mind. Besides, I'm looking for something new so i can create my own experience with it before handing it down to my son. Thanks!
💯 agree with you
Great video, Bruce. I'm going to try to buy AD whenever possible. It must feel good.
Great vid,I wanted to add that it seems like the grey market dealers have a disproportionate amount of faulty watches, from my experience. Does kind of make sense, manufacturers will get rid of their unwanted pieces first.
True that
The only thing that is important from a Grey marked dealer is to make sure the warenty card is stamped by an AD. Then you have the same rights as if you bougt it in an AD store. The tricky thing is to trust the Grey marked dealer. Some high end brands AD works with Grey dealers for those models that are hard to sell.
i just bought a mudmaster gwg1000!!!!!!!!!!
Very sensible advice! Big Thumbs up!
Thanks!
This man talks facts. I work for a Rolex AD. If you’re always buying else where and you come in asking for Daytona, LV, Sky-dweller.. guess what. You’re not getting one
Rightly so
from what I’ve heard, you’re not getting them anyway unless you’re a big spender.
that's kind of demeaning from the AD and frankly stupid... why support them then?
Ive bought plenty of watches thru joma and grey market sites. You do need to be careful. If its over a certain price i would go the AD route. For the prices im willing to take the risk if the watch is under 500