Discussing OwONekko A.I Controversy and Transphobia
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- Опубликовано: 16 сен 2024
- Jouustas video: • OwONekko’s Generative ...
Nekkos Video: • Don’t let ANYONE PUNK ...
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Please do not harass anyone mentioned in this video. I only made this video because its been on my mind and I wanted to release some of my frustrations in a video. There are some criticisms of nekko that I left out mostly because Jouusta already covered them in her video, and I mostly agree with her on most of her criticism of Nekko, so feel free to watch her video as well. People also accused Nekko of ableism. I didn't mention that in my video because I am not informed enough about it, I honestly don't have an opinion on it because I don't really understand it. I don't use twitter anymore, I don't understand the memes Neko posted, and I don't know why they would be considered ableist. If you guys are more knowledgeable about all that please let me know. I appreciate any additional information about this whole issue. (Side note but I'm pretty sure I also accidentally misgendered the unamed creator at least once in this video. Sorry yall, my bad.) Oh the irony after criticising nekko about that 😅.
A lot of the memes that she posted on her twitter in response were insulting people’s intelligence and featured ableist imagery in the wojak’s facial expressions that can be linked to how people with intellectual disabilities are stereotyped to look like.
@@DeLiller40 oh...that's definitely bad.
@@DeLiller40she wasn't intentionally being abelist though?😭 like I'm sure she wasn't using them to call someone the r slur or something but to call them dumb. That's not abelism like at all
@@Sashakawaiicat if you check her page she explained that she didn't see the connection and I say the pictures and seen people use em but they've never been ableist when other people used em
for the ableism portion-
she was replying to folks on twitter with ableist memes. as DeLiller mentioned, the memes she used featured stereotypes of mentally disabled folks, and were used specifically in reply to criticism. more specifically as well, she didn't respond with words when she used those memes, just the images.
imo if she wanted to call someone dumb or simply say she disagreed, she could have easily done it with words instead of trying to imply that the other person was mentally handicapped. her use of said memes imply that disabled people shouldn't be listened to, that they are not valuable. that is what is ableist about her actions. hope that helps! /genuine
(if you need some more context lmk, I've kept my eyes on the situation and use twitter)
Something that a lot of people don’t know about ai is that mass usage of ai puts a lot of stress on our energy grids. It also causes the evaporation of large amounts of water :/ people need to know how bad this new advanced ai is for our environment. I probably didn’t explain it very well in this comment but I encourage the people reading this to do research about it
Really?? I only ever hear about how it harms people careers, never once heard about how it affects our environment. Now I have even more reason to be against AI
This reminds me of Arin Hansen's stance against almonds, and the dangerous amounts of water they consume when grown in mass quantities. Thank you for bringing this up, I'll look for resources and re-educate myself!
Oh, this is incredibly important info to have! Thank you so much for getting it out there; I'll definitely do some research about this!!
Are the artificial intelligence robots eating our water?? 😨
Water is my favorite drink… but character ai.. but water!! ARGGGG!
But water is suspose to kill the robots! *WATER IS SUSPOSE TO KILL THE ROBOTSSSSS!!!!!!!!!*
As a songwriter, ai music is stealing. With BBL Drizzy, those behind that track were able to unsplice the song, trace back its inspirations, and credit them all. Neko did none of that shit.
That's good to know.
@@Sashakawaiicatin the future, I’d definitely try to reach out to creators who would be involved with effected groups. It can help you come to a better educated response, and give you new thoughts to process through and reason with.
I actually have a question, is it also bad when people make popular characters sing random songs? Like idk sherk singing despacito
@@ballonstudios7799 It's funny imo but you would also be stealing others voice work. Also making of someone's personal voice can be very disturbing. But that's my cents about ai voice ❤
@@yourdailyrandom5434 tbh it is disturbing thinking about a robot/ AI just using your voice
so I don't care that much about her liking to use ai for fun. we've all fucked around with dalle mini before for shits and giggles. It's the fact that she monetized it. Monetizing it is no longer just for fun. and the added transphobia is extra scummy.
I get that. I've recieved a few response about the monetisation aspect and I've definitely changed my mind on that. She definitely shouldn't have monetised it.
100% AGREE WITH THIS STATEMENT
Yea, im a trans boy and i just felt so icky abt the misgendering. Its fine to accidentaly mistake someones pronoun but its wrong to purposely misgender someone
I just feel so icky abt her
what is dalle mini
@@hexx9065 I think it was one of the first AI generators which started in 2023 or 2022 I can't remember
My irk is that it's theft for her to generate those songs and post them to her youtube page- not to mention to monetize it. If the company takes songs from real artists- her song is made up of a bunch of real people's music, and she posted that to her RUclips without credit, and I'm assuming those ppl didn't give the company permission either. The key difference here is we don't know what the ai stole from.
I understand your criticism, however my take is using ai for fun is fine. If their not profiting off it or if their using it as a tool then I personally I don't have a huge issue with it. In Nekkos case I'm conflicted when it comes to her monetizing the video, because while I agree that it's not just for fun because it is monetized, I'm mostly indifferent to her monetizing a video where she did contribute something to the music because she wrote the lyrics. If it was a song completely generated by ai then that would be a different story.
@@Sashakawaiicat For me it's similar to tracing a person without their permission, morally speaking. You can still contribute and add on to the piece but at the end of the day you still knowingly took artwork without someone's permission.
Also in a time like this when global warming is so outrageous I don't see any use of ai as fine because it causes soooooo much harm to the environment and is completely unnecessary. But that is just my opinion and its fine if you disagree. Also my city's been hugely affected by global warming just in the past few weeks and it's making me feel more and more strict about the use of ai and every other pollutant as if I wasn't already.
Honestly...I agree. I feel you've convinced me that it's wrong for her to have monetized it. I said that I'm open to changing my mind and reading over your comment I don't think the fact that she wrote the lyrics matters too much. Monetizing it was wrong of her. Thanks for the feedback.
I completely agree. generative Ai should be out lawed for all reasons.
@@BatBitesTheBat So is Dragon Ball Super illegal then with its traced artwork?
i feel like a lot of the MAJOR back flash would’ve been avoided if she had just responded maturely 🤷♀️
black flash?? 😱
@@cuteybopeep_0 backlash* but you're right
Black flash sounds like a black person flashing ngl 💀
Absolutely. She has stumbled down to such a level of pettiness in response to the criticism that I think reflects her character atp.
@@literallykangel is that a…JUJUTSU KAISEN REFERENCE😨😨
My issue isn’t with the fact that she used AI. I don’t agree with it, but I’m not going to harass her for it since she only did it for fun. What I have a problem with is the transphobia and misgendering. THAT is what I believe she needs to apologize for and correct herself on.
Same, I can’t pretend like I really care that much about the ai stuff. Whatever hatred I have for ai, I’m not gonna harass anyone about it. But the transphobia really bothered me. I really hope she just apologises for that.
@@Sashakawaiicat Agreed.
Agreed. I didnt care she used it in her game (as far as I know it's just the music but idk) because the game itself is just a big meme and joke and it is for free, no monitization. But not this, monetizing the playlist video, the transphobia and continuous misgendering and then blocking, the childish behaviour, and her "neutral" stance is literally just encouraging AI and and kinda downplaying how it has negatively effected artist (in different categories of art) really doesn't sit right with me
I get using ai when you dont understand something, like say a text of something using language that isn't your average everyday language. maybe to bounce your own ideas for writing if your stumped but still working yourself to solve it. But for making art and claiming it as yours and profitting knowing it pulls and steals from others? not so much.
My problem is she monetized the ai music video
That means she made money off f other peoples work
My issue is with both. That slop is bad for the environment. bad for the economy, and erodes the truth, and the act of making art.
As an anti-ai supporter if A.I wasn't made by illegal and unfair means and wasn't being made SOLELY for the purpose of replacing people then I *may* have a different opinion
but the problem is that's what A.I is BEING MADE FOR it is being presented and being seen as: a way to replace human artists whist stealing art from said artists to make their images beacuse without the stolen art it would end up looking like a human centipede
Nondi(OwONekko) is bassiclly Invalidating the artists who have been stolen from to make these ai images, audios, ect. and made a nearly hour long video just repeating the same thing and even going as far as to being up her self-h@rm and other things that had nothing to do with ai not only that but she's constantly deleted and blocked people who critiqued and criticized her video and statement which is a really tasteless move and I used to be a fan of her until this ai video came out
A.I is becoming harmful but she's not seeing that not only that but the A.I Nondi was using is in a HUGE LAYER of controversy beacuse Suno(the A.I Nondi was using to make her A.I Playlist) was called out for using stolen material without concent from the sources of those said materials
And this isn't to sound rude but Nondi is a major hypocrite
Mind you this is coming from someone who USED to be Neutral about A.I until I found out what A.I is being used for and how it's being made
And I Love You Sasha but I kinda disagree with some of your points but I still respect you views on it
Which is starting to become less and less visible as A.I. is, ironically, more expensive. There are already a few articles about companies cutting A.I. out of their work forces due to bad products, training, server maintenance, etc.
Well according to sabaton father 😐the quote in the song states ( what happens next from your inventions? We wonder ware ? What will this lead ? Who can foresee what will it be ? ) ai works the same way 😐as long fun panda states what can be given could also be taken 😐
I loved her art, as a trans person and an ai “art” hater, I will no longer be supporting her. Accidentally misgendering someone is a one time thing yet she refuses to acknowledge the other person’s pronouns and its simply hateful. also in her new community post’s comments she does acknowledge their pronouns yet refused to use their pronouns again.
Who was the artist that she misgendered.??
she's a murder but please respect her pronouns duh 🤓
I respect her even more now.
@@red_panda3204 Okay edgy teenager
@@red_panda3204 “look im edgy!!” Ahh comment 💀
I was overall annoyed with owonekko's behavior but wasn't all that wound up about it, until today when she posted a livestream with a thumbnail painting Jo as racist. Its incredibly hurtful and immature, and I hate its escalated to this point with her. I genuinely hopes she steps away from the internet for a while as this is obviously stressing her out, and reflects on the situation.
I watched the stream and she was basically making fun of the whole situation, instead of behaving like the "mature" adult that she is.
i understand what ur saying but... i cant help but feel a bit of a double standard when you say you "hate" or, at least, feel strongly about ai art, but not... ai music? ai music is still ai art since... music is art
and she apparently monetized the video too so
Did you watch the entire video? She didn't say AI music was okay, she just said she would be a hypocrite to say something on it when she has consumed AI music before
Maybe read her replies and comments she only said that because she wrote the lyrics and added some of her own to the Ai stuff and she also responded to others agreeing with them on Ai music problems. She also just like me thought Ai music was just sounds that everyone has free use of like nature and instruments which would make sense.
As a trans person looking at this situation, I don't mind a creator who needs to delete someone's words if they are harmful. Please protect your mental health out here, just please don't be harmful. Please don't erase proof of someone's gender and ignore them. We're already ignored and harmed in real life, just for being ourselves. A lack of a quick 'I'm sorry, I didn't know! I'll do better' was jarring to me. If you're open-hearted and not prejudiced, it isn't hard.
I've always viewed AI in all their forms as tools, made by people, and they ought to be used to expand a human mind. What about the people whose brains struggle with music composition, regardless of how passionate they are to learn how to make music? What is the sin in needing help? What about the people who've never had an open-minded, constructive Art teacher in school, and they want to make a visual story? Art style is usually a blend of other peoples' styles, because we are all influencing each other. I do understand that it is scouring the net for references, and then glues them all together in one piece, making a Frankenstein's monster of weirdness and broken anatomy.
Obviously, no company is right or correct in stealing art from people and using it to sell products (that usually aren't good quality, anyway). Every tool has the ability to be used for good or evil. If we push back, and argue, no compromise or progress will Ever be made. Let people be who are not stealing, who just need an extra hand with their creative process.
Thank you for making this, and making all of these points. I hope you've opened some minds.
I’m a trans man too, you said it better than I could!
Nice to see I'm not the only one using Frankenstein's monster analogy.
@@Urmumlel7025 You're not alone! Teagan Earley compared AI coding to an enthusiastic third grader. "They were asked to draw a firetruck, but they turned it into a Transformer with wings, and a lollipop for some reason...? Here are all the reasons I love this, and your creativity. Can we try again on the firetruck, please?"
@@MangoMagica Stay strong, my dude. We are here, we always have been, and we deserve love/peace/respect as much as any other person. I love lifting up anyone who needs it, online or off. It feels good to everyone involved, so why not?
I didn't read all of this but I agree that ai is a tool and should never be used and seen as genuine art
Personally I don’t like ai music either. It’s stealing from artists too, just *music* artists instead. Art isn’t just drawing, but also singing and creating music. AI steals from them too, which *is* harmful. That’s just my opinion, but still. I don’t like it.
The transphobic stuff however. She is 100% transphobic. As a trans person myself, she is blatantly misgendering someone and trying to make excuses so she can continue. She’s invalidating him and his gender and she is transphobic and I condemn her for that-and will not be supporting her. I used to watch her videos, but I do believe this may take away a lot of revenue in her career. Especially if more people hear about the transphobia.
I disagree with the point that using AI software is similar to buying from Amazon because the main difference is necessity.
In this economy, amazon is one of the few resources many people have for various needs because of it's relatively low shipping costs. There have been many times where I've not been able to afford more ethical brands because the shipping is four times as expensive as the product. And people need to buy groceries and clothes somehow and they might not have access to them locally considering specific dietary needs and body types.
And even of you do buy locally, who's to say that's even ethical? Farming practises often involve human and animal abuse but we need to buy in order to survive in capitalist societies.
But nobody needs AI art. Art is a luxury. It's cheap and easy to learn art but AI is built on consumerism and the unwillingness to pay artists.
Now, do I believe the AI songs Neko posted were as bad as companies using them? No. But whether Neko likes it or not, they have a large platform and the normalisation of AI theft can result in further damage. She has hundreds of thousands of viewers often seeing her as s figurehead in the art world.
What people are critiquing isn't necessarily the usage itself but the example it sets.
Also, BBL Drizzy is coming under fire. This is just a very niche art drama.
I think that's a fair criticism. I acknowledged that it wasn't the best comparison in the video. That said alot of unboxing videos I've watched don't involve things that are a necessity, often times they are things that are also a luxury (at least the ones I watch) and I could argue that these people making those videos are setting an example that it's OK for people to purchase random garbage they don't need from a company that abuses their workers but like I said I just don't think these people are the main issue. But thanks for your comment, I appreciate your feedback.
Fr
Art is not remotely easy to learn what??? Many people spend their entire lives learning and never mastering it.
@@viennasavage9110you don’t have to be a master to enjoy art, you don’t even have to be good it’s literally so malleable. Art is as easy as you make it
@@viennasavage9110you can't "master" art, but that's besides the point. The only thing you need in order to learn art is time and practice. Instead of using ai, make a sketch. It doesn't have to be perfect, but that's how you grow. You will never learn if you do not try.
I think what has bothered me so much about the discussion around this situation is how much people are separating "art" and "music". Music IS an art. And generative AI stealing from hardworking musicians is just as bad and immoral as AI companies scraping artwork for their databases. To disagree with/hate AI in creative spaces is to hate its use in art, music, writing, and video.
Nondi's blatant transphobia though is what really ramped up the discourse surrounding OwONekko. If it was solely the AI take and nothing else, this would've blown over by now, but Nondi quadrupling down on misgendering this other artist because they don't like them right now is just disgusting. A mistake is one thing. Blatantly ignoring and blocking people trying to correct you, politely no less, is foul behavior. A person's identity is not a token you can take away whenever they do something you don't like.
Exactly what I was thinking, thinking of AI music as fine but AI drawings as not is hypocritical cause both are stealing work from artists who struggle in their respective industries, and imo is exactly why non artists think AI art is so ok, it’s cause it doesn’t effect them so they don’t see the issue.
I also agree the transphobia is what made this whole thing worse, if it was just the AI I don’t think as many people would care, including me, but because of how she’s acted I as a trans viewer don’t feel comfortable around her content anymore which is sad cause I liked her stuff.
Genuinely, all of this would’ve been solved with a “oops my bad”. The larger issue is her doubling down on her bad behavior.
Yeah, none of her actions were even really bad. Could've even doubled down on the AI stance and I think things would be a-okay (I think she makes a few solid points in her AI video), just a "didn't mean to misgender them" (without putting misgender in quotations, calling it silly to be upset over, etc.) and then not using the wrong pronouns would've stopped all the drama.
@@camilla_luong well not to mention she’s just, not educated on AI, so she really shouldn’t have even tried to explain her stance. Imo, if you’re under-informed on something, it’s kinda dumb to have such a STRONG opinion about it.
@@MinoTyrant I guess so. I usually try to stay away from extremes, in that I don't like speaking in absolutes, especially on things idk about, so I get where you're coming from. It's strange not to see other viewpoints, too. In general, I do agree that purely personal use is somewhat okay even though I don't really use it. But posting it to an audience of over 300k and monetizing it is a different debate. Not nearly on the same level as big companies doing it, but a little step away from purely personal use.
@@camilla_luong i definitely don’t think there’s anything wrong inherently with strong opinions, but to be so vocal about it when you aren’t even educated in the most basic knowledge about it, you’re gonna look like a fool using only emotional bias to back you up, yknow?
@@camilla_luong also when I say “you” I’m referring to hypothetical persons and/or nekko not actually YOU you LOL
2:04 “Her comment says” you are also accidentally misgendering them!
Honestly, if she “acted” more maturely. I feel like this war wouldn’t happen.
I got a quesion: why didn't Nondie use the copyright free music we already have? There all over RUclips and they're FREE. Why did she NEED to generate ai music in the first place?
Heads up , this is long, feel free to skip.
Midheat take: I am experience with tech and have been for years- I LOVE TECH. I mean that. I also I HATE GEN AI SPECIFICALLY. Unironicaly. Not ALL tech, NOT ALL AI. I hate GEN AI specifically. This includes MIDjouney, suNO, deviantart dream up, things like that. I have plenty of reason to hate it. And plenty of reasons to side-eye people who use it knowing full well the damages it does. The bad legit outweighs any possible good this tech could have done. Because all the good is either trivial or not possible in this instance. But the bad is blantant at every instance. It is untested , unrefined, unregulated tech using the general public as guinea pigs. The people who tossed this tech out to the general public are absolutely nefarious to me.
Its funny- Why are there so many creatives doubling down on gen ai usage? They literally worked better before using it. Ergo josuh, duff, nondie, jazza, ect. Some agreeing, neigh , CONFIRMING its plagiarizing, bad for the environment, misinsformation churning, and economy destroying. But also insists its a "neutral tool" used for "fun". It stopped being for "fun" when the works featuring it are MONITIZED. And it being for "personal use" doesn't change the fact that each thing generated with these things uses a ton of water and electricity- LIKE CRYPTO AND NFTS.
Many agree it should be regulated but *Couldn't even wait til it got regulated to use it!*
Its the impatience for me. Its the complicity for me.
The continual insistence by many that its "nessessary" and "inevitable" is absurd. Gen ai tech is not a need, its a want. Its tech we've already had before that does things we could already do, but far worse and far less efficiently. All this "advancement" its supposed to make is incremental, and heavily reliant on human made data... because it poisons itself with its own outputs. Gen ai (the specific tech many has a probelm with.) Is a price cutting company's wet dream. The perfect tool for scammers and fruaders, the art reposters and choosing-beggars favorite program. Deepfakes with photoshop was bad enough but with this tech, its SKYROCKET. Let me remind you all of the "undressing" apps epidemic in south Korea and Spain(to name a few).
And even if gen ai is still around for years to come - it will not be in the state its in now. Ever heard of Napster? Or Limewire?
What's worse- *Its not even actual AI- its an algorithm. A statistics based algorithm.* All this "ai" is false marketing. Again, Like crypto... and dying nfts.
The fact is, this is controversial tech. If you use it, you are subject too criticism. That's what happened here... then legit transphobia as retaliation (have you seen owonekko's latest stream with that racial caricature she made of Jouustas??? Not even her enabling whiteknight can defend that. )
And there are plenty of reasons to hate it besides the "moral" reasons.
First off - artists aren't the only ones effected by this tech. Programmers , musicians , writers , linguists, children , women , public officials , a lot more are being negatively effected by this tech.
Economy: there are legit job losses occurring with this. Which, clearly, would effect the economy because less jobs= less money = less money flow.
Forced integration of ai: why is it being forced EVERYWHERE (rhetorical). It slows everything down and is integrated in random places so haphazardly. Google search sucks now. Copilot is clunky built in Spyware. And god forbid you are forced to work with it, many of the incorporation is tedious , cumbersome, and time wasting. You are literally better off doing things from scratch rather than acting as a ghost writer or underpaid editor for this.
COST: the cost to keep an ai model running is astronomical. Just remember, those "free" models won't be free for long.
Ownership: the copyright court of America among other places has ruled that gen ai outputs are public domain and not eligible for ownership. So anyone that sells/monetizes ai works are already ripping you off. So this is gonna screw over a lot of people and companies- already has in many cases.
Environmental damage: explained previously. Tons of power, space for mainframes , tons of water to cool them, and the emissions. All for cruddy little memes and inaccurate essays.
Massive misinformation: And that barely touching the inaccuracies in information. These things literally make up sources. Many say "hallucinating". I say thats a human thing, ai bulls**ts.
I could go on, but this is long enough. A few more things before I wrap this up.
Computer scientists, linguists, and plenty of legitimate tech specialists have stated the same things many artists have regarding ai- that its a parrot machine. Incapable of making anything new, getting inspired, nor learning like a human does. Statistical algorithm that pits out a mishmash of the typical and struggles with anything else. Look up "generate nerd without glasses." And you'll see what i mean. ( you ever seen a computer scientists get called a luddite because they stated gen ai wasn't good? I have. Its the most ironic thing. Luddites weren't even anti-technology. They were pro-workers . Tech was just being used to take their jobs and at far less quality and more waste. The irony of luddites being used as an insult is telling. )
Typical points already debunked but ill place them here just in case. Gen ai is incomparable to; photography, digital art, the human brain, how humans learn, how humans reference, fan art, etc. Don't anthropomorphise gen ai. Many of these can be backed up with the fact that NONE OF THESE THINGS HAVE A DATASET COMPOSED OF BILLIONS OF STOLEN DATA TO FUNCTION. None of these things have instant recall, most humans can't even remember what they ate yesterday morning. A Human can be self taught, though. The first artist came frok somewhere. A human artist doesn't need ai to CREATE, but gen ai needs humans to MIMIC.
Gen ai images aren't even good for reference or ideation - a shoddy reference will often render your work shoddy. just reference photos or actual artists that draw their own stuff. There's plenty to be inspired by and you don't need to generate a single thing. That's how its been done since forever, the method isn't broken.
But screw all of that - some folks just wanna play with their overhyped TOY. They are content being part of the problem. And who am I to stop anyone? You do you. I just won't support you. Ill avoid your "work" too, its not worth my view nor my time because it CLEARLY wasn't worth yours. There are plenty of creatives that BOTHER and draw their own backgrounds... AND AREN'T RACIAL CARICATURE DRAWING TRANSPHOBES...And I have full right to express my opinion against something just as others have for it.
I really liked Owonekko's work and a lot of her humor. I wanted to support a fellow black creator too. Creators are human, and they do human things. When she made her MONITIZED ai music thing, i skipped it. When she made a 20+ video DOUBLING down on her usage and implying those against it were ignorant of ai. All over 1 comment. I said my piece and simply unwatched her. Then this all happened. All easily avoidable. Its the hypocrisy, the complicity, and the spite for me. And the transphobia. God its inexcusable. Owonekko complained that a bigger RUclips made 1 comment to her, but she's made a 2 hour livestream and ugly little thumbnail targeting a RUclipsr with LITERALLY less than A THIRD of her userbase. But ill say this; it seems like she's out of it rn. I hope she steps away from online for a bit, and settles things out. I wish her good health. But thats a "she's shown me enough" for me.
i don't expect many to read this whole comment. But I apreciate anyone reading this far. I know its a lot bit i had a lot to say. Ai is a layered topic.
Happy note. Something I find to be nice- suno as well as several other gen ai model companies are getting sued! with some going into the next phases of their lawsuits. Go Karla Ortiz, California, and the EU. Gen ai managed to do the impossible: make the law work faster.
You, dear reader, have a good night/day.
I mean to be fair to her, she tried to create funny music with her own lyrics. Call it lazy, but she just goofing around
@@bubbachildsupport4535 She DONE GOOFED then. She could have used her lyrics WITH the free music that was already out there, Instead of generating it. Would have been like, way simpler too. That's her making it convoluted for no reason.
My main problem is her reaction it’s all says a lot of the person
i don't want to come off as rude in any way since i like your content but i don't think you understand the ignorance in nekkos response. she said in her video that she understands the harm in ai and still chooses to use it because it makes her happy. it's crazy to think that the only thing that skews her away from something that actively harms artists, people and the environment is if it'll "make her happy or not". i feel that's why many people and myself are so disappointed in both her ignorance and her lack of knowledge in some aspects of ai. i'll be honest, i'm no saint and have used ai before but it was before i was actually educated on the affects ai has on people. nekko can still use ai if she pleases but the fact that she understands how ai will hurt artists and does it anyway comes off as a little selfish. again, i don't mean to sound angry or upset but i thought that maybe giving a different view on this will help out a little bit
Ehh kinda disagree on the comparison to Amazon. Some people use amazon as a necessity since certain things aren't immediately accessible to them in their area, and Amazon has proven to be useful in terms of delivery times/services. In that sense, i'd understand giving the average buyer who isn't fully aware, grace for using amazon.
Generative AI art is not a necessity and while yes i can understand the average person who like use it for a meme or thumbnail not knowing the harm it does, i can't give that same grace to Nondi or any artist who views anti-AI sentiments as overly passionate or as overreacting. Is all AI bad? Of course there is some nuances for certain types of AI, but GenAI really isn't that nuanced outside of "fun". Again, i think going after people who use it for dumb stuff or are unaware isn't productive, especially if you don't explain it to them and just talk down on them, but Nondi is not one of those people.
She had so many people being respectful to her about their critiques and the only super rude comments i saw were in response to her rude comments. And if being overly passionate about AI is "talking down to her" then idk what else there is to say.
Also please you have to see how she's reacting rn on her live it's a mess
Ai art sucks. End of story (this is an opinon^^ sorry if it offends you, block me and go on with your day)
This is an opinion, not a fact
So does transphobia
@@kyraartsit is, considering that majority of AI art is material used from actual artists.
@@NicoleFlores-hq5nhno it's quite literally an opinion. Photobashing collag pieces do the exact same thing and yet that's considered a valid art form. I'm not saying AI art is valid, nor do I even think it's good. But saying "[thing] sucks" is not a fact. Like... by definition
@@kyraarts i'm pretty sure photobashing is used for reference in terms of concept art and specific uses of art design or visual design.
AI art is used as a weapon against actual artists with careers because it's more easier for a computer to generalize prompts than to actually draw it, along with stealing art from others.
Glad someone could at least have a nuanced take on this.
Although with the AI thing I have to say as someone who is making a game, doing art, doing music for said game, animates(a bit rusty on it) and my own tunes etc. it does have a much larger impact, Like I will watch Nekko's video, and edit my comment later, but as someone who'd be affected by AI in all those areas as well-
People can make games with AI now, make music, make art and animate. And not only does it steal jobs from people I mean yes it can have a good impact IF PEOPLE USED IT RIGHT, but you also have to acknowledge the impact it also has on the environment(theres several articles you can find if you just simply search something like 'how does ai negatively impact the environment' that or other aspects too)
Like I get it, AI can be good and it'll probably be great for getting ideas for something like an oc or prompt to make a game or a song about a topic. But still gotta also think about, how does it affect the other aspects.
And like for the transphobic take definitely agree, its a bit weird, wouldn't say she's evil because OBVIOUSLY she isn't, but its a bit weird for her to go around and block people even when they were trying to inform her.
Although I will note, have you seen the live she did? If so I do suggest to watch it(when in you are in a safe place/mindset), but be warned it gets hard to watch because she may or may not have been having a manic episode while doing it(im not saying for sure- some were saying she did and some were saying she didnt although someone who was a partner of someone who has manic episodes did also say to go take a break or something along those lines- unsure though) and apparently people were making fun of her stutter(i was there though and I didn't see anything of it? I will say I have a stutter and was expressing my concern that by doing this live(pretty impulsively) it was causing stress on her) but people were begging her to end the live, the other person there was also egging her on.
I'm sorry this is long, I just wanted to try to explain in detail some things because I want to get it out there what I mean. Hopefully I explained it well enough with no spelling errors((HOPEFULLY))
If anyone wants me to explain I can, but for me it is still early morning so I might no be able to reply immediately 😭
I'm aware of the impact ai has on the environment, I just haven't done enough research on it to have included it in this video. That would require a longer video and additional research that unfortunately I didn't really have the time for since this video was made in the spur of the moment. I watched some of her stream but didn't see most if it to be honest, i just wanted to see if she would adress the transphobia stuff but apparently she mentioned it earlier in the stream and I just missed it.
@@Sashakawaiicat Alright, fair enough ^^ if you end up watching the stream fully though like I said, just be warned because it gets hard to watch.
I was there, some people were making fun of her stutter which was unarguably a jerk move.
Also I don’t wanna straight out name the person who was the most vocal in the chat but all I can say is I think I know who you’re talking about.
@@Wubatosiswas it a big figure? If it was, I’d like to know who the asshole is please
@@Wubatosis thats fucking horrible- jesus christ. I'm glad I didnt see them in chat then-
The thing is... you think she's acting in good faith, she's not.
only watch her most recent stream
I'm glad that you made a video about this but it feels like you missed the point of Jo's video and contradict yourself. You bring up how Nondi says she uses it for fun when Jo brings up that she monetizes off of it, which isn't for personal gain at that point, it's for profit. You say you get it and it's contradicting her stance on ai, but then you defend it anyway. Ai music and Ai art are both wrong. Just because it's music doesn't mean it's not stealing from artists, it's just a different artist from the ones we picture and it rubs me wrong that so many cannot see that as the same thing and say its okay. Yeah, fine, do what you want in your personal time, but you're sharing it with thousands of others, spreading it and gaining money from a product that probably stole from others, took their hard earned work and made it into someone else's without permission. There's no way around it, it's theft, especially if they're using public domain which is likely just artists work on the internet ☹.
Nope, she's not coming back fom this after her lastest live
As an artist, her stance on AI is fine. I don't agree with it personally, but I can respect her opinion.
However, what's NOT fine is how she has childishly handled even the slightest bit of criticism, even going as low as being transphobic to the unnamed bigger creator. She has dismissed ex-fans expressing their disappointment by saying they're not her "real fans" along with the wojak images instead of handling this in a more mature way. It's really sad to see her act like this, and this is coming from somebody who is a casual watcher of her content at best.
Speaking of the bigger creator. Their original comment was worded in the most respectful and kindest way possible while also getting their point across. Yet the only reason Nondii took an issue with it is because the creator was bigger than her. Although I can understand the fear of a larger creator's fans potentially dogpiling you, the very least you can do is be mature about the whole situation.
Nondii could have just responded in a mature way and none of this bullshit would've happened. She's just further digging her own grave it seems.
She just made a new livestream and her thumbnail…
she made a new live??
But making ai music IS harmful, it steals from musical artists and is just as bad. I do believe ai can be used for good but making music isn't it, especially when making that public, aka publicly using something that has stolen from other music. Everyone on this situation kinda sucks ngl but whoever that big creator was is mostly right, it's harmful and they shouldn't have to hide their identity just to make a point.
Some people still steal other people’s music or splices it or use their beats etc. without crediting and that’s also bad obviously but it still happens even without ai
If the person doesn't say that they own the music, what's the problem? Like, simply generating it through AI doesn't mean immediate theft, since the person is not saying that the song is theirs.
@@lunamig1006 but it's STEALING without consent! Those artist weren't given permission to have that stolen music public. I'm tired of stolen ai work getting excused because it isn't drawings, music is art! Writing and poetry is art! Using ai to make those thing and then publicly posting it is stealing without permission.
@@cloudyheavv and did I say I don't think that's bad? No I didn't! So why would it be any better if it's ai. I think both is a shitty thing to do
One thing I disagree with is the fact AI can be used for fun stuff. AI shouldn’t be used period point black, I believe. It’s taking from artists even if it’s just for “fun” or as “jokes”. It harms a group and only makes the AI smarter by using them which gains them an advantage. As an artist myself, not just in art, but music too, I believe it to still be bad and you don’t have to be heavy into the “is ai good or bad?” Debate to make a statement with a simple yes or no. No hate you, was just wanting to give my own opinion on that! lol
right? excluding the argument against ai bc of it’s environment impact (only excluding it bc not as many people know about it), generative ai is just theft. artists don’t leave platforms with ai usage baked in and use programs to protect their art from ai bc ai is “good” or “neutral.” programs have been busted time and time again for using artists work without consent and compensation, so until it is regulated (which is far out if ever), it is not ethical, for fun usage or otherwise.
I was honestly a fan until yesterday’s stream, she was very childish during it, and it soured my mood with her content.
I don't know if you watched her stream, I skipped through a lot of it when it was posted in full on youtube, but it was nasty. Nondi drew that artist with such disrespect, and throughout the WHOLE stream, misgendered them. She sat there for like, 20 minutes showing off the thumbnail for the stream pointing out all the tiny little details and compared her thumbnail to the other creator's thumbnail. The other creator drew Nondi's sona normal, and with such respect. Yeah, they misconstrued Nondi's words, but that is NOT an excuse to paint that artist as a racist and draw them looking nasty. She spent the rest of the stream drawing hate comments and bullying her fans who were trying to deflect the situation. It's no longer about the AI usage, it's about how she handled the criticism. What's worse is her husband was in the stream as well and enabling her behavior by bullying her fans with her. It's very clear that this situation is taking a toll on her mental health and she really needs to take a break from the internet for a while.
I’m really glad everyone is keeping the large creator anonymous. If I were in their place just kindly commenting, I would greatly appreciate that no one involved me in the drama
Honestly I agreed with Neko's stance on ai for the most part and didn't really see it as a big deal. All she had to do was say something along the lines of "agree to disagree" and this whole thing probably would have blown over in a week or so. But no. She just had to put her foot down and paint any criticism as an attack when that wasn't even the case. She's been so immature about the whole scenario it's honestly insane. She did not need to get so heated over this.
totally agree
Not to mention, she also targeted a smaller creator like right after it happened to her, making crude art of them. Hypocritical lmao.
I am on the fence about the whole AI thing since it does have an environmental effect but honestly if someone uses it that's on them. I'm just gonna unsubscribe and move on because I personally don't want to support it. I also feel that a lot of people are misinterpreting the comment as policing. He wasn't trying to police Nandi, he was just stating his opinion on how he viewed her use of AI and yes even though he is a bigger creator that wasn't why he commented. He didn't comment with the intent of using his influence, he commented to state an opinion. Nandi could have ignored and deleted the comment because from what I have seen and heard she has been doing exactly that. She brought attention to the comment by making a video about it. This didn't blow up until she made the video about the comment, the immature responses, and blocking people for correcting them on the persons gender.
Her excuse for the transphobia thing in her community post is that she doesnt deal with that stuff irl??? Like she didnt apologize for it at all. Idc bout the ai stuff as long as youre transparent abt it but the fact that she REFUSES to apologize for misgendering someone (to my knowledge) is so annoying
As a visual artist and a songwriter this shit just makes me really sad. And AI is not only harmful to artists, it’s harmful to the environment too.
I can understand some nuance, but I am afraid of people becoming more and more accepting of ai.
my issue with her is how she’s reacting
I saw some of her livestream after where she was ranting about everything and it was just hard to watch. It’s also not the smartest idea for her to insult her fans who were just saying their opinion
also the doubling down on the transphobia is a huge ick, she’s acting like she’s allergic to the concept of potentially being wrong
I'm still of the opinion that once you post something publicly, and monetize it at that, that it's left the "personal use for fun" area completely.
Unless you can credit the work you used then you shouldn't post it, especially not monetize it. Another example of this is tracing, you can ethically trace things to learn certain skills however you should never claim it as your own and you really should use it as personal practice and not post traced art without crediting the artist you used for it and dear god I'd hope no one would be stupid enough to monetize it but that still happens and they get rightful backlash for it. To me AI should be treated the same. Unless you credit the music/art you used to generate it, you shouldn't be posting it or monetizing it.
The transphobia stuff just makes the entire thing go from like a lukewarm 10 issue to a 100 boiling hot issue though imo. That really does not help when you're trying to argue something...
Also reminder that AI has a negative impact on the environment so there's a whole additional problem to AI.
As Nandi said in the livestream her videos average watch time was 5 minutes
Honestly? What was said of substance that deserved to be watched for an hour?
it was hard to get through. i only got 10 minutes in. that entire 10 minutes was claiming everyone criticizing her was just insecure and irrationally scared of ai and that everyone needs to be more confident and be themselves. it was extremely weird
@@ticcitoasty I mean saying it's weird to be yourself is odd....the point is if you didn't watch the full thing you couldn't see her full view on it
@@celestiag.thomas-johnson7067 her view within the first ten minutes was already incredibly flawed and missed a huge chunk of points ppl were making by framing their stance as: insecure fearmongering. it wasn’t a genuine “be yourself”. it was “yall are misguided and not on my level therefore you’re wrong”. it came off as very “seek help ❤️” and i have no interest in engaging with someone who starts a video off that way nor will i be hearing them out.
she could’ve said things i might’ve agreed with, but it won’t make what she started with sound better. i don’t think there’s any context where that intro was well intentioned
@@ticcitoasty did you watch her before that because she always is loud and proud which doesn't mean she thinks she's better than you, you just think that she thinks she's better than you. Not once in the videos nor live stream did she say that and nor did the 2 people who made videos on it claim that they felt like that while I don't think she's right I do think it's weird to just pile fake shit on
The problem with using generative AI is that any use of it strengthens it's ability to steal from actual creators and therefore is still wrong to do and should be critiqued as such. I think it's incorrect to compare using AI to steal from creators bc you lack skills or are too lazy to get good at whatever content you've stolen to buying necessities from an unethical source. People need food and clothes and Amazon is sometimes the cheapest option for people who lack funds for more ethical companies. AI content is not a necessity and only negatively impacts the creators the program stole the content from and also has a massively bad environmental impact.
Just accept that people can use AI for fun? For me, if the person doesn't post and monetize it, there's no problem, don't care if it's wrong, anything that uses energy is bad for the environment.
@@lunamig1006 So being a thief is okay if you steal for funsies? I'll remember that next time I'm at a small local shop 👍
@@cassi6528 that just doesn't work, If so, I can say what the creator in the video said about amazon, physical objects and digital files are different, I'm not taking away the value of the things, i'm an artist, Speaking of which, isn't people's fault that AIs steal? It's the companies' fault, and there's no point criticizing them, they'll still continue to do so because of other companies and malicious people, a person using AI for fun being put in the same as someone who uses it for scams is ridiculous. ( Also sorry for bad english )
@@lunamig1006 Oh sorry, you're getting a robot to steal from artists, that's so much better. I've already said why her analogy with Amazon is flawed, people will buy necessities from Amazon. Also, buying from a seller is nowhere near the same as stealing from a creative. You support companies stealing your content and making money off your hard work? Money that you'll never see even though you are the one that made the content? Anyone using AI knows it theft, and they are just as culpable as the companies for supporting that company and actively making it easier for the companies to steal. It's stupid to just let thieves get away with stealing because you're too lazy and careless to stand against them. Using AI for fun is still just as bad as using it for monetary gain, they are just as guilt as the scam artists for stealing work they never did. The reasoning behind the theft is irrelevant, the act of stealing via AI is the problem.
#buckleup#itsajourneyyall
Hate to type it but OwONekko is in the wrong. She may not completely understand, cares why shes in the wrong and or will continue to use outrage clout. I also get OwoNekko stance about her freedom to expression how Jou criticism comes off as policing. Though Jou respectfully criticisize OwoNekko -it is not a neutral criticism-opinion matter to your followers who will follow your opinions. I think Jou also gives too much credit to the art community as a whole- it seems she projects this universal understanding of why ai is wrong and everyone being knowledgeable about which is not the case for everyone. In a way Jou is policing OwoNekko art. I mean
..Jou thumbnail looks remnant of Attorney Phoenix. OwoNekko doesnt think she part of the artist community nor abides by the communtiy ethics. Even then, ethic varies across the community there not really a solid set of rules that everyone strictly follows. Even with guild these rules usually benefits more for established artists and not the smaller indie artists. Im on the fence about Ai art but i am aware of the negative impacts to other artist, art theft, the environment, and psychological electronic Dependency. I use it sparingly but notice how its impact my own independent learning as while assisting me quicker to concept ideas or find solutions in binary. I would be a hyprocrite not say i didnt sail those seas as rouge artist cripple by debt and poverty who understand not everyone have access to resources. But in this case, there not a solid ground between these artist- people need to really have conversation face to face not video to video. If your going to tell someone how they are wrong you cant really pussyfoot... procesecutor must state everything about how it wrong instead off assume the defendant knows absolutely and charges the crime. i dont agree with OwONekko calas doubledown, make transphobic comments and profit of the video with ai art-however i get how stressful it can be clap back at every comment. Other that it comes of a white person telling a black person what to do about their own business when they had prileveges unlike the other. This would be a interesting debate about ethics, expression, and competition but for now- just can sit back watch it go down in realtime and critically think about it. Call me basic.
I feel like if we're gonna talk thumbnails, it's pretty fucked to compare Jou making a Ace Attorney reference to Nekko straight up calling Jou a racist for criticizing her in the thumbnail.
I hope you mentioned in the video about her behavior towards fans on Twitter! The images she would send people were very rude and toxic. She's a bad person. I really hope she gets help fr
i would have given her grace until the last community post and livestream...
Honestly, I don’t f with AI artists, but my response has pretty much always been to just unfollow/subscribe, block, and go on with my day. Which is exactly what I did with Neko. It only started to become an issue for me when she started the responses (both the backlash and transphobia). I don’t think a response video was necessary at all, especially to comments that (while I doubt she enjoyed what they had to say) weren’t really mean in my eyes. However if you are going to make a response video, it’s not really helping your case for half of it to boil down to “I can do what I want”. Like yes, you can, but if your intent is to present your side of the coin and potentially offer some insight or education into your pov, that’s not the way to do it. Though like I said, imo, a response video just wasn’t necessary to begin with and she should’ve just left it at deleting the comments if it was that upsetting, so maybe I’m biased 🤷♀️
See, while I don’t think her stance would wrong in a perfect world, the fact of the matter is that that AI is not being pushed as a tool to help, as something to replace people in just art, but many aspects of life. Robots don’t ask to be compensated and can work almost unending hours after all. Why would any sane person want support a these tools in anyway knowing that this is the end goal of the companies? And just to make it even worse, it also creates a huge toll on the environment like others have explained in the comments.
She made a video about a heated topic and chose to respond with wojack memes cause someone shared their opinion saying they didn’t agree with them on Twitter. Like, I can understand how it can be overwhelming and anxiety inducing have hundreds of people messaging you similar things over and over after maybe explaining in more detail to a different person. Y’know, you don’t have to respond if you don’t want to. It just seems really childish to respond with memes insulting their intelligence. It really does not create a good look for you.
Then the worst like you mentioned in your video is the transphobia. Her actions really speak volumes. Like why block someone who is literally trying to help and say that you used the wrong pronouns for someone. Literally takes a few minutes to apologize and most trans people I know are understanding. That is until you deliberately start deleting those comments and continue to use the wrong pronouns all because they said they didn’t agree with your opinion.
OwONekko is extremely immature imho, and glad I never followed or heard of them until now.
My biggest worry with yall who enjoy using AI without malicious intent is that when regulations come out, how will you be affected legally?? I don't want people using it as a tool to suddenly get a million copyright lawsuits dumped on them. Disney can go screw themselves but genuine creators don't deserve that.
If someone is using it for fun they're not going to get copywrited? 💀
@@kyraarts they should be safe if it's all in private (no public posting of the content). But- pardon my spiraling- are the devs behind generative ai scummy enough to go after users to pay for their own lawsuits? They might?? Maybe not?? Idk tech bros are never trustworthy and we just saw that legally Disney successfully pulled the "you lost your rights when you agreed to the TOS"
I personally feel like if she just never made the video then none of this would’ve happened tbh. I can understand her being upset about posting something she did for fun and it getting some negativity but like you mentioned if you’re actively using a media / indulging in content that you’re aware isn’t well liked in your community she should’ve been at least a little prepared. Plus it’s imo as simple as if it genuinely was just made for fun for shits n giggles with friends why post it ? Not everything you do needs 2 be posted especially when it’s something that may come off as controversial especially if she wasn’t up for dealing with the backlash. I also personally feel like monetizing it is actively profiting off ai. Again if it was just for fun and you wanted 2 post it then she could’ve posted it w/o monetizing it. As far as the misgendering goes if she would’ve just did a “oh shit mb dude” and moved on then she wouldn’t be getting called transphobic. Getting a persons pronouns wrong accidentally isn’t transphobic. Purposefully going against someone’s wishes is transphobic. And I personally believe that the way she handled the backlash was pretty shit just 2 be blunt. I get getting the same disagreement over and over and over again WOULD get frustrating and annoying but at the end of the day it’s still people with their own opinions and going out of your way to be a immature dick 2 other people after they heard your opinion and gave a polite disagreement is shitty and childish and makes it seem like she can’t take criticism. I personally don’t care for her or her content anymore after this as the whole situation could’ve easily been avoided if she didn’t get super heated over a comment left on a public platform and to try and spin it like rae is the one who is the issue is generally just really eye brow raising. I could understand her being upset but she could’ve easily turned off the comments, deleted his comment, I or just ignored it but instead you make an entire video about it with your main reasoning being because he left a objectively harmless comment. Idk man it just sucks seeing a situation that could’ve been avoided all together blow up so badly :T
Oops got sidetracked in my rambling but I meant 2 add on that while I’m not much of a fan of hers anymore and I don’t personally agree with how she conducted herself though this, I also don’t believe she should be harassed, cancelled, or never given the chance 2 come back and fix her wrongdoings. I definitely agree I think she should just apologize and try and amend her community before it even takes off the ground.
I also wanna go ahead and say (bc I forgot again oops) I genuinely agree with most the things you did say in this video and it’s a hard but valid pill 2 swallow :) you can’t essentially say that ai is terrible never support it whilst also shopping or essentially funding problematic / controversial companies or even using things like Instagram or most mainstream art/social platforms that actively support or use ai. I definitely agree with you and nandi on that point and I also agree that if you genuinely wanna say fuck it and use ai for dumb fun as long as you’re not actively feeding it media (or honestly just staying away from art ai because I think (could be wrong) it’s the most harmful considering it actively uses art made by people) but ya sorry 4 the yap but this situation is honestly pretty interesting 2 me because I can genuinely see both sides even if I’m not a fan of how nandi conducted herself
It would be one thing if she was just pointing out her views on ai, but willing to listen the criticism in a good faith, and improve from now. But she didn't, instead she preferred to act childish and arrogant, deleting any sort of criticism or responded on a immature way.
The tr4snph0bia is a huge yikes
And also using the word authentic, while using ai is deeply ironic
my personal take is that I think generative AI can be regulated to be a helpful tool with proper applications, but how we behave with the currently available tools will have a direct impact on how long we have to deal with unethical AI and art theft.
supporting the programs using AI trained off of stolen work, regardless of how outspoken you are, slows regulations protecting artists because all the companies want is to make money. for that to happen, people only need to use their tech. and it’s not like corrupt companies will give up profit when they don’t have to, so if we don’t require it, artist protection just isn’t going to happen. unfortunately using these current programs regularly/supporting their normalized usage can have the impact of direct support, regardless of how neutral or outright negative your opinions are.
and I say regularly because let’s be real, checking out AI is just observation and you can dick around with these programs without having a massive impact on the tech scene at all. it’s not like there’s no nuance to these situations. that being said, saying you’re for artist protection, but also saying you’re for full usage, and not just investigations, of the current AI how they come, is just contradictory to me. you’re pro one thing, but also pro working against that exact thing. it’s not support of stolen work in intention, but in that fucked up real world practicality where actions are your only voice.
hopefully I’ve explained why I personally have no issue with her AI music video in the sense of an investigation of what it can do, but was saddened by her more in depth opinion and to hear it was monetized. in the end, it’s her opinion to have just as I have mine. however, I did take genuine issue with her telling her audience of artists there’s nothing you can do to protect your art when there quite literally is. I see it as misleading and I think fewer people will look into what they can do to protect their work having heard there isn’t a way to do so.
the transphobia is when I unsubbed to her. you aren’t transphobic for making a mistake, but you definitely have a transphobic impact if you refuse to apologize and defend misgendering in any context. 🥲
also, when it comes to monetizing AI art, I honestly think what ultimately should matter are the artists’ opinions whose works were used. we can’t confirm them because their shit is currently stolen, but it is a relatively safe guess to assume most of them wouldn’t feel awesome about it based on majority opinion of the artist community as a whole.
tbh i didn't even know that artist uses he/they pronouns 💀neko probably should say sorry about that ig. tho i think people are jumping down her throat too much about the ai stuff. as an artist, ai isn't the end of the world, i think it has potential. it for sure needs to be regulated but to call her a shitty person for using ai is crazy. the problem isn't even the average user, its the people making it and other massive companies...
but she also doubled down when people tried to tell her junes pronouns
@@stupidheadwisp which is why I said she should apologize... she's probably having a rough time with many attacking her so she probably feels the need to keep her guard up, which isn't great but i sure know when im upset it's hard for me to think straight
@@Moo_is_cute she deserves the rough time tho. She was being an ahole
It's just so many bad takes like saying people who complain about ai are just upset because they'll never be as good as ai, fans that disagree with her are not really her fans, that ai helps her "be her authentic self", everyone who says AI is bad are just saying it because they're parroting people with bigger platforms etc. Not helping is the fact that all her responses have been childish/petty.
I genuinely do not know what she was thinking being in support of AI music while being a part of art/creative community plus as many have mentioned she made a video compilation of the AI songs she made and monetized it for profit.
@@magicalpopfish9570 tbh I was kinda with her until she apparently outright said concept artists deserve to have their jobs taken because they aren't useful. You can't be tearing down your fellow creatives like that tf
A lot of the issue is that she disrespected her audience, disrespected the original creator and seemed insensitive to those that find AI use to be highly against artists. She COULD have chosen a mature route, like Ergo Josh who uses AI and isn't going back on it. While I absolutely abhor AI, I can't stop someone from using it but no one has to yell at their audience and expect there not to be backlash lol.
Two of my favorite artist made a video on another of my favorite artists-
Fr, like all of the creators involved, I follow. It's like, 'the girls are fighting' meme
@@jc3734 Yeeess!! 😭
Fr me too 😭
@@jc3734except one of “the girls” is a transphobe who can’t bear to listen to other people.
5:19 and supporting said companies by using their AI is supporting the theft being done
So no, it IS harmful to use these AIs, supporting the source of theft, is bad, shocker
Edit: People boycott big companies when they do shit wrong for a reason, saying this because of the example you give after the time stamp given
I will say that my opinion of AI art has definitely changed since I started studying animation and drawing in University. My lecturer brought up a point that AI art and Photography are very similar in that photography when it first became a thing artists of the era were very scared of it and thought it would wipe art as a form of expression but now photography is considered an art form. Though AI at this moment in time is taking from a lot of people in order to generate the art/music ect I think in the future it can definitely become a tool in the future and as long as people are clear that they use AI and companies use art that they have permission to use for their AI training, I believe it is okay. I personally will never use it and avoid it at all costs but like you I do think that if OwOnekko is happy then they can do what they want.
About Nekko misgendering, though I don't fully know who the person was that originally commented and am only going off what others are saying, the fact that nekko defended the transphobic remarks in their recent live (that has since been removed off their channel publically at least) with 'we didn't know who they were, but we don't care' (I'm not 100% on the actual words their partner used as I can't go back to quote it) just made me really angry because my sister recently transitioned but people outside always ask her pronouns before conversation or if they do use the wrong pronouns they apologise and use the right ones. OwOnekko just doubling down and not saying sorry and changing to the right pronouns but just saying "I don't watch their content/I don't know them" is just rude. That's not an excuse. Before actually saying anything just research to make sure you are using the right pronouns or if you used the wrong ones just change it and say sorry.
I hope nekko can just apologise for the misgendering considering a large amount of people know who the commenter was, and just move on.
This was genuinely such a cool comment to read! I really love the comparison you made with photography; I'd never thought about that before, but it gave me an incredibly different perspective on the whole debate!!
My issue is with both. That slop is bad for the environment. bad for the economy, and erodes the truth, and the act of making art. You should get that lecturer fired btw. Since we got ai on its way to generate proper animations, you just wasted a bunch of money and that guy is out of the job.
@@InvasionAnimation oh no we are still being taught live study, it was mostly just a topic to bring up conversation. He wasn't telling us AI good because it is like photography. We actually also were able to share our opinions on it and the entire class said why they didn't like it. It wasn't him teaching us to use it or anything. The slides had art we had to guess the artist of and then it turns out they were all AI and then he asked us why AI art is different to human made art. Things said from other students and myself were that of a lot of arguments being said against AI. Being a life study artist and traditional artist my lecturer was just merely introducing the argument against and for AI. My University doesn't allow the use of AI for any of our papers for my degree. He merely brought up the nuanced argument about photography being similar and now is being used as a tool to help with art as well as it being its own art form. I don't think he should get fired over that.
@@InvasionAnimation Arguing that something is bad because it allows people to receive something without paying is setting us back as a society.
@@viennasavage9110 If you think ai is the only way to get "free" music you are mad. There are tons of free ways to make music like beepbox for example. You can easily make a goofy song in a few minutes with 0 music knowledge. and since it was for a playlist for her fans she could have easily just added a bunch of already made songs in a public playlist.
I agree with what Nekko thinks about AI as I use it for personal reference or goofy garbage. I want to get to the point where i make actual music and the placeholder is good enough for me until i can get the electronics and software to create it as I am poor and need to save to pursue it but it helps having an idea to work from later. I never repost digital ai artwork as i think it should not be reposted to art sites as it prevents real art from being shown.
The pronoun thing was rude of her. I hope she apologizes and that she is not really transphobic. I am nonbinary and get misgendered all the time and choose not to make a big deal out of it as it is time consuming and don't like making a big deal about pronouns.
yeah, using AI for funsies is fine. I would say don't monetize it, because it generates using other people's' work, but misgendering someone who disagrees with you is just weirdo behavior.
Fairly confident she isn't transphobic. She says she doesn't know the person and doesn't know their pronouns which is understandable.
@@GhostDraggon_ except people have corrected her and she blocked them. They were polite, asking her to apologize, but she blocked them instead. If it wasn’t intentional, sure, it doesn’t mean she can double down and block people who try to correct her.
i dont mind her using ai for fun [viggle ai is pretty funny] but she shouldnt be profiting out of ANYTHING ai
I definitely get what you’re saying. I understand because I do a lot of art too. I think my only problem with Nekko is how she’s replying to everything. It is true at the end of the day we can’t stop someone from making their own opinion. But the way she’s been replying to everything is a little uncalled for.
Gorgeous angel character.
My opinion is that her stance on AI is understandable, she gave valid reasons you might use AI, like for fun or for refrences (though it would be easier to use actual images.) I think she's allowed to post the video, she didn't claim the songs as her own, she isn't posting them on spotify as actual muisic and she recognises there's bad things about AI.
However, she is still, a relatively big creator with a fandom who could recognise that she's making money of off the AI conent and infur that she supports the use of AI art as content being used to make profit in a general sense. I dislike her hypocrisy of stating she dislikes the larger creator stopping people from doing their own research while at the same time wanting her veiwers to agree with her opinion dispite the many problems with AI art that could be discovered from doing any basic research.
All of these I would have been okay with and would have excepted as he opinions, her needing to make money and her feeling upset at backlash because it has an effect on her mental health.
The second however she began deleting comments that referenced her blatant misgendering I could no longer respect the way she had acted. Even if you disagree with someone on the internet disregarding their right to have their identity respected is completely invalid and makes you a bad person. Whether she did it because she doesn't respect the trans community, if she did it out of spite or if she made a mistake and instead of saying sorry she panicked due to stress it isn't okay for her to behave like this.
I say this as a member of the trans community who would feel absolutely horrible if someone began to misgender me publicly online when I already probably get alot of blacklash for being trans in the first place. Also Nekko has to do is make a statement saying that she's sorry for misgendering the original creator, state that they don't believe her use of AI was wrong and she monitisied it because being a youtuber is a stressful job in which getting money is important, then relay she doesn't support casual use of AI art to make profit and that using it for personal use is fine in her opinion, then asking people to refrain from discussing it further in her channel.
A statement following those line are all I feel need to be said, however if she continues to act in the childish mannor she has been she will only loose more followers.
I'm sorry but I have to disagree with your view on a.i. .
My problem lies with her Monetizing the entire video, much like many others. But let’s talk more about the livestream she had after,
She made a huge, immature response in the first place because a large creator commented, risking the chance of their fans flooding her comments with harsh criticism. Okay, fine. But then during the livestream, a small channel who was presumably one of her fans, donated around 50 dollars worth of donation messages and used them to call out individuals who called Nekko out, some of them were quite rude too. Its kind of baffling to see Nekko worry about receiving criticism from “Toxic peeps” coming from a huge community - however she not only glossed over her own negative behavior, but also that fan.
If I’m lucky enough, said fan will reply to my comment while fighting for their life in others. I honestly think it’s an alt of Nekkos because the dedication is unreal.
And to think that OwONekko called Jouustas racist in a livestream...
She's just accused someone of being racist in a live stream thumbnail, and the person is literally someone who just made a video on the whole thing earlier. Jouusta is aware of this, and "feels bad for contributing to her mental health decline," but it's really not her fault imo. It was going to happen without her.
As someone who is trans it makes me rlly sad to sed her misgendering someone BUT NOT Wanting to fix it :(
(Plus u made a great point about morals, like i shop on Shein even tho they do mistreat their workers but i dont have to money to buy stuff from Amazon 😕)
I see your point about how harassing indivual people who have used ai as opposed to going after the companies as being unhelpful, and i agree to some extent. However, i think this is a fundamentally different issue compared to people using amazon or pirating anime. Amazon is already an established giant, and often the most viable and affordable option for many people. And pirating Naruto is probably not harming or supporting the og creators any more that supporting companies like Crunchroll that have their own issues. But what exactly is the value of generative ai "art" (including music, memes ect)? Why do we need it? The internet has existed for decades without it, and we've all been happy making parody songs and memes without the use of ai. It's not like it provides an essential service. Instead we just now have an art stealing machine that harms the environment to boot, and some people act like they're being held at gunpoint when questioned why exactly they feel the need to use it. Like, yeah, don't harass people. But a lot of people still don't seem to realize the negative effects of generative ai, and i think it's good to spread info and criticism. This whole thing is still so new too, that i think we even have a shot at swaying the public opinion enough that these ai companies won't be able to get a similar foothold in the creative industries as amazon already has on online shopping.
Ive been following the development of Ai since it became public (starting with Siri and google up to now) and I agree with most researchers that Ai will one day be worst for us. It goes deeper than just the Ai art and music.
I followed Neko and saw her video and was kind of like "I dont agree, but I'll respect her opinion. It might change later." What got me to unfollow and kind of side eye her was the deleting of comments and the misgendering of the other creator. That doesn't sit right with me and Im really hoping she sees that at this point it rubs a lot of people the wrong way.
I miss when it was to generate funny images.
Check out her new live it's downhill from here tbh
I'm 10 minutes into the video (I will edit my comment after fully watching the video) but I would like to say that, it's no longer about AI. I say that because of what Nondi did when Jo made a video, and the youtube thumbnail was Nondi's youtube persona saying "AI is good!" and having Jo's character say "OBJECTION!" and Nondi decided to make Jo have saggy tits and making Jo say "I hate the blakks!" Which is so fucking crazy, it took a left turn immediately! Because I think Jo was being respectful towards Nondi? But now it just feels like she could've just flat-out ignored the comment like she has probably done with her other videos getting hate(That I know of) but I do agree with you even though I may have the same opinion as Jo.
EDIT: I still very much agree with what you're saying and I still think it's no longer about Nondi's drama about AI. I read a comment saying AI is using a lot of our energy, and heard in an article that "Simplifying and optimizing AI models can significantly reduce their energy consumption."(I copied and pasted that sry) So we could hopefully stop it, but knowing humanity we're fucked.
Your character looks like the "pink glitter unicorn princess" kind of thing but BUFF AND OH MY GOD 😍😍
woman and tall woman are gorgeous and amazing
Fellow buff woman enjoyer spotted! 💪✨
@@ldavs3221 realest they are absolutely beautiful 🎀🎀
I think maybe the fact that it was music and not image generation also plays a role in this whole drama thing. Capitalization and greedy corporations have made music lose it's credibility as art so even we as artists (mostly visual) lose our connection to it and deem it sort of less of an art at least on a subconscious level. Like i believe this discourse would've been a lot more different if for example she generated goofy comic strips instead of songs. I understand that ethically it's the same thing but considering how music is diminished to a mere product i think it could've gotten much worse. It would be helpful to put ourselves in the shoes of a music artist or maybe focus more on what they think of this issue.
I thought I finally found a non problematic creator. I was wrong 😢. She definitely needs to do better, and if she just responded maturely and tried to better her mistakes, I'm sure she wouldn't be facing so much backlash. However long a hiatus she would need for self reflection, as long as she at least tried to fix things instead of just turning comments off-
Her response on twitter was completely childish. She could have just said that she has her own opinion and agree to disagree, but no, she just acts like everyone else is wrong and shes the only person whos correct
I literally learned about this drama 5 seconds ago but best believe I’m gonna watch your video on it
I’ve used ai for fun. I deeply deeply regret it. I used it for writing. I would interact with my favorite fictional character ai and I would write intricate shit for fun. It felt like a fun writing prompt. After a few days I came to the realization that everything I wrote for fun was likely being said to other people. It was learning from what I wrote to be a more realistic writer. The company that made that ai was gonna use what it learned from my silly little writing to take jobs from actual writers. I stopped after that. It was so fun for me but my intention did not matter because everything I gave them was going to be used to ruin lives. That’s not even an exaggeration. Every interaction with ai it learns from. Even when it’s bad it’s learning
I love the background you used for the OC you made! I believe the background is from The Book of Bill? (for a while at least)
I unsub her when I see that she disabled her comment.
I feel like, if she gonna make a video that is very controversial, should she at least open for debate? I feel like she know that it will turn downhill so she disabled it. No more further discussion.
That is a sign of immature and oh boy, did she take it badly.
as a hobbyist artist, while i'm more neutral on AI, another art youtuber named Mohammed Agbadi mentioned this in one of his video about AI that I agree weith and think its important to share: AI draws data from multiple art pieces made by IRL artists to make its art, meaning if all artists just stopped doing art, AI would have nothing to pull from
I should listen when people give me the ick more 💀
Same
Tbh, I wouldn’t necessarily call her transphobic as by definition that isn’t really transphobic. I think that she’s just being ignorant/stupid but saying transphobia feels like a reach. I think we throw that word around too loosely and it begins to loose it’s meaning and can be damaging to those who get called it and to those who have really experienced it. I’m sure she had no malicious intent or atleast isn’t the raging transphobe people are making her out to be. I’m surprised this is all she did. I would of expected more compared to all that backlash she is getting.
She said it's okay to misgender that person since she don't like them. I mean you can be ignorant on the topic and all, but I don't know how to call that besides transphobia. I'm a trans guy and I think you shouldn't excuse someone's transphobia just because they don't beat up trans people every saturday. Even if it's not that significant it's still not okay to think you can misgender someone just because you don't like them.
i personally would call it transphobic. She was corrected on their pronouns multiple times and blocked the people respectfully correcting her, and then doubling down. It doesn't seem like just ignorance. She may not be a raging transphobe, but it doesn't mean shes not being transphobic.
She uses the excuse that we don't know who it is that she's talking about, but we do. In her video, she refers to them as They, but then switches to she/her in her twitter response. it makes no sense. she could have just continued to use They, since she was fine using they/them pronouns in her video.
I don’t think the word is thrown around too easily at all, and transphobia *is* objectively based in ignorance and/or stupidity. Like they aren’t mutually exclusive. What I think *does* get thrown around more often is the establishment of being a *transphobic person* . Kind of like the difference between being mean to someone once and being a *mean person* . It’s still unclear whether these views are ones Neko holds at her core or just ones that were said in the heat of the moment, meaning it’s not accurate yet to brand her as a wholly trans phobic person. However the current behavior itself *is* transphobic, if that makes sense? (Basically what you do doesn’t always define you as a person, but it also doesn’t take anything away from the nature and reality of *what* you did)
@@bluebay1031 100%. as a trans person myself, i would not call her a transphobic person. this is just one instance, and she can still apologize for it or learn from it. Her *actions* are transphobic, not her *as a person.*
Unless she extra doubles down, and starts saying bigoted stuff, I don't think its ok to call her a transphobe. saying what she *did* is transphobic is one thing, but being a transphobe is an entirely different can of worms.
@@fairnightmare thats what I mean. But worded better lmao
I don’t care if people use generative AI in their free time offline. I can’t stop them. But it becomes a problem when it’s being profited off of. Yes she might need money, but you have to understand how icky it feels to see an artist who’s lively hood relies on creating art posts a video with AI material and claims it’s okay because the profit comes from the entertainment of the video not the generated content, even though the only entertainment in the video is the generated material 😭
I absolutely agree that people should be transparent about AI usage and that AI can be used as a tool, what Nondi said about Ai being here for good and having to adapt with it is right, we have to understand its here now and either work around it or with it. But theres a different between getting ideas from ai or maybe even a color palette and posting a video of almost entirely generated content, that’s what’s wrong with what Nekko did. She might not care that it’s unethical and understand AI impacts artists badly and want to use it but personally I think she needs to understand that it should be an offline hobby or something she enjoys doing offline, where there’s no profit. Personally I think the best course of action for her is to apologize for the inappropriate behavior in her responses (the misgendering and putting jouusta on blast, calling her racist, being rude to fans *cough* that twitter post *cough*) and say she understands why people were upset, she stands with her opinion but now sees how posting and profiting off of AI content is harmful and she won’t post it. That way everyone wins
Can I get the tl:dr for the transphobia?
the commenter who nekko uses as an example on her response video uses he/they, but she referred to them EXCLUSIVELY with she/her
@@azulzstupidity does she not know it's just kind of basic kindness to use they/them if you don't know someone's pronouns?
@@twist_ending7545apparently she got corrected and then continued to double down
@@cawingcrows2072 oh so it wasn't just some kind of slip up. Like she's straight up being transphobic?
@@twist_ending7545 Or more like common sense to just go with what they look like - not everyone subscribes to this new BS of fairytail land pronoun world.
if you look like dwayne the rock and use she/her you're not getting called that point blank period. dont be stupid.
I personally think waht nondi meant abt “not naming the creator” is that i think she means that she didn’t name the creator and she didn’t expect people to find the comment.
I kinda understand, but rn im mostly focused on how she responded to Jouusta because the thumbnail she featured Jou in claimed Jou as racist and Nondi drew them very crudely and disgustingly. She’s acting like a child, and it really wouldn’t be much of a problem if she handled it more maturely, at least in my opinion :(
It just got a WHOLE lot worse
to be honest, the ai shit aint even that bad. yea, monitising it is wrong but its nowhere near as bad as the transphobia and the racism accusations. she made a thumbnail of Jouustas claiming she hated black people, which, i watched jouustas entire video, she was not racist at all. she was super sweet, disagreeing, agreeing. she did NOTHING.
WHY EVERY OF MY FAVORITE RUclipsRS GETTING CANCELED
I wouldn't consider her being cancelled
@@KaiyoMooooonTwT oh alright
I’m a little conflicted, I’ve used AI a couple times before when it was first blowing up just to see what the deal was, and recently for assistance. With my knowledge/experience, I say: Oh no, she used AI which steals work for its data. But at the same time, it was just for sh*ts and giggles, she wasn’t using it in any harmful way nor did she have the intent to, other than monetizing the video. Even so, now I say this as someone who’s only ever uploaded a handful of videos on old account when they were 11, I don’t find that to even be particularly harmful, if at all :/
If she were using it and claiming the whole thing as her own like she made the stuff, like some of those other random AI “artists”, fully intending to make a profit, now then of course I’d have a problem. I already mentioned she monetized the video so she’s making money, but to me, with the other factors involved, I think it’s ok.
All in all, my take on the AI situation is that I don’t have any strong feelings so :p
Now the transphobia… Exactly what SashaKawaiiCat said, just apologize. Also I don’t think she’s really transphobic either •_•
I feel that this is a very non biased standpoint on the situation and i appreciate that. I would say I'm on a neutral standpoint but due to seeing how Nondi was been reacting to this situation has gotten me to be less on her side and i feel if she just continues to just act "petty" (in my opinion shes acting a bit petty) idk if i can even consider looking up to her TwT this is just an opinion
Man I just started getting into her and like discovering her stuff too 😔😔
Most of her ai ideas is ok idc. But going out of her way to be mean is my problem. Like I didn’t care about her stance however Ai bros will use it but again thats not her fault.Its how she reacted thats her fault. When that comment was made all she had to do was delete and move on. No video, she has her stance and thats that. Its the second she made the video and locked the comments that stuff kept happening. She was blocking the conversation from happening, so it leaked elsewhere. And then the live streams? Oh god, that was worse, she just kept it going. Shes trying to get the last word and its just coming off as bullying now. Its ok to have a laugh but when you ignore the more serious points thats when you gotta step back and realize that "hey that was a bit far my bad". She doesn’t even need to apologize about the Ai thats stupid but continuing to misgender? Idk man..
There's nothing that I can say that someone else hasn't already said but like you said we comment bc we want to and I wanna comment bro.
I think it's ridiculous for nondi to be acting as she is honestly, more stuff has happened since this video posted so idk how that would make you feel (if it would change your opinion at all) but it makes me even more upset with the whole thing.
I don't like the constant "ai is theft but for fun it's okay" stuff bc it's not the same as tracing imo. When you trace you're putting the effort to at least do it with your own hands, w ai you're helping machines destroy our planet but yk maybe it is a lot to always want to be morally right idk I’ve always lived like this and never wanted to do anything bad to the place I live but who knows maybe that's just me.
I saw that you changed your opinion abt her monetizing the ai playlist which I am glad to hear actually as it sounded a little hypocritical in the video you explaining why you don't care that she did, idk how to describe why but it also doesn't matter since your opinion changed and it was your opinion and I'm not here to try and change any opinion just voice mine.
I think the biggest problem people (me) are having w this is that she said it's a neutral thing (it's really not since generative ai is trained on theft therefore it's objectively bad no matter how you look at it), she made it a race problem where that wasn't at all in the conversation bc it literally does not matter and nobody cares, and she is being extremely immature and hypocritical about it. Just today she's gone and bullied me jouusta abt her video and labeled her as a racist when jouusta never mentioned nondi's race bc she literally said it was not important to the context of what was happening. Ofc that didn't happen when this video came out it literally happened like a few hours ago but the day this one came out nondi went live for over an hour or so just saying the same stuff in her video and not helping her case.
Idk man it's just not good, she just needs to take a step back at the least this is not healthy
I dont care for alot of ai usage, but i dont judge others for doing it i just move on to other things. So her ai music is whatever to me. I didnt watch it but im also not gonna be commenting about it. My only disappointment was her responses on twitter an the transphobic behavior. I truely believe she is a fun an entertaining creator, an i hope she apologizes for the transphobic stuff. But either way, i dont care if she or anyone uses ai for stuff, i just probably wont consume that particular content
Only think I didn’t like was the stance that some people saying that ai is taking jobs is just fear mongering, when it just fact. But like she’s not a bad person at all, i think people took the ai thing and ran with it. (This was during the live and I know she was a bit flustered so her thoughts might have been jumbled)
12:30 i really hope less people thought like this. Your own happiness is important, as long as it's not harming others in the process. Are we all perfect? no. But striving to do better makes the world better. Shrugging and thinking that it makes you happy so eff everyone it harms, makes the world a worse place overall.
This is the 2nd time ive seen a video abt her. Why are all my faves getting cancelled omg
Keep making mistakes. It's one thing not to know but apparently she knew their pronouns and still chose to use the wrong ones. She was being delulu ngl
I do get most of yah points and some I don't agree with I do respect yah opinion! Keep doin you broski!!
Ai uses a mass amount of energy it cannot never be harmful