I just switch to a Snapdragon x Plus machine - it replaces my Notebook with the i7 13th Gen. In Real Life I doesn't notice any performance gaps. Lightroom works fast, watching 4K Videos works well, my printer and all my external drives works without any issues. I also try out Capture One (emulated). It works and is fine, but it performs better on my M2 Mac. What else? Office and browsing in the web is great.
The release of M1 was a miracle: I had no issues. As soon as the M1max arrived, I had a big for 2 months, but since then: no (notice) troubles at all. The same after M2 Ultra 192GB arrived. No noticeable troubles.
Nostalgia glasses. I had to support or developers when M1 was new, there was tons of compatibility problems, I hated those computers for professional work.
This is one of the most compréhensive and unbiased video on these devices that I have see. So unbiased it will probably tickle some apologetic Apple fans, although most Apple users will probably recognise how good it is.
I would call past WoA attempts as side-quests rather than any sort of concerted effort. Microsoft waited so long for Intel for a solution but it never came. The Qualcomm X series is the first time WoA can be considered serious. 80% of the big apps are now ARM native, excluding games.
Very interesting and informative video👌 I daily drive my Dell XPS with snapdragon as it's smoother than even my top-spec Asus Proart P16 with AMD Ryzen Ai 9 hx370. Only thing that's not working for me is VMware Workstation and a USB Serial adapter. Everything else just flies😊
Even though I'm mainly a Mac user (except for my Windows gaming desktop), I think this is great stuff. Having competition benefits everyone. I put my wife's M2 Air through my Logic Pro torture tests and that thing is amazing. Did get a little warm but never slowed down. My company has a Snapdragon test unit and we are putting it through the paces now. Intel should be scared.
How do you make this setup work? Like do you have botch pc and Mac plugged into one monitor and switch between them? You use Mac for work right? I have the same setup but I’m always conflicted on which one to use for productivity since both can do well at it..
@@Bluestarferies Yeah I have dual monitors and I'm using the DP/HDMI inputs in the monitors to switch between the Mac and Windows machine. This means I can bring up both my Windows machine on one monitor and then my Mac on the 2nd monitor. I can also run dual monitor for one of the machines to since my monitors have up to 3 inputs.
Ditto for me, Mac user with a Windows gaming PC. I've had Surface devices in the past, and I think the Snapdragon Surface laptop sets a high bar for the hardware (although I'm not the least bit interested in AI).
@@bryans8656 I'm not a fanboy for either side. I use them as tools and don't care about allegiance to any one company. Gaming on a Mac is lame even though I'll be curious to see if more game developers try with raytracing on the new M chips.
@@marksaxonFor work I use a Desktop PC running Windows on a 32 core Threadripper. Great hardware but I really don’t like Windows. At home, I use a Mac. Yes gaming is lame but I have an XBox Series X so I don’t care.
Great video. The SD X Elite is an ARM server soc. It was designed to take up to 80 watts of sustained input power. Running it at full power, would kick Apple's butt. But alas, you would need desktop cooling/water and would not be battery device friendly lol. 😂
I bought the Lenovo Slim 7x and it's honestly the best Windows laptop I've ever owned. The screen is stunning, keyboard is flawless, battery life is impressive, there is virtually no fan noise, and the build quality is excellent. I'm pleased Lenovo and Microsoft are finally bringing the heat on Apple.
FYI: Thunderbolt 3 has been offered on a number of AMD cpu hosting motherboards for 5+ years, and obviously Apple silicon, and Thunderbolt 4 is part of the USB4 spec, so not just an INTEL thing. You also missed "Linux 6.10 Adds eDP/DisplayPort Support For The Snapdragon X Elite", so if you have an eGPU and fancy dual booting one of the machines into an unstable Linux distribution there may be support for NVIDIA GPU's, at least, as there are drivers that are buildable from source.
Apple managed the transition from x86 to arm so well. I was able to transfer my complete workflow on my M1 Max and even under Rosetta2 everything was running fast and well. I wish II could upgrade my Windows laptop too but I don’t think that Windows on Arm will reach this level of reliability soon. I also need the gpu power of at least a Silicon Max and the Snapdragon Chips have nothing to offer in this category.
The X Elite's Adreno GPU is indeed horrible, and the odd is that the Adreno GPUs inside Snapdragon for smartphones are miles ahead on tests comparing to Bionic's GPUs. There will be an Nvidia SoC for Windows next year built through a partnership with Mediatek. It seems it will use Blackwell microarchitecture for the GPU. It this holds true, the the graphic performance will be very powerful.
Found this channel since June, when he talked about "Thunderbolt" for 2013 Mac Pro. And, what I like Apart from his accent, the explanation fits me perfectly. Also, I just feel like "Neutral" when watching type of video like this as well 😁😅
What I’ve have gotten is that’s the cpu performance isn’t that bad its mainly driver and app support and what I have been seeing most of the app support are games that generally perform poorly or just crash out due to shitty display drivers for windows. I really feel that Qualcomm could have gotten more help with Microsoft on this or just worked with Microsoft on the first gen elite chips at least until they got the graphics’s drivers sorted.
I work in the enterprise IT space and this Snapdragon stuff doesn't really move the needle. X86 compatibility is key for us. I view these chips as interesting and something to keep an eye on.
Due to the snapdragons having a fan to cool the cpu, wouldn’t the MacBook Pro M1 have been more of an apples to apples comparison instead of an MacBook Air M1?
I think the discrepancy between the ratio of multi core to single core score between Geekbench 6 and Cinebench comes from the nature of the task parallelization ratio of both. Geekbench ever since the version 5 changed the way on how multithreading is scored (rather than doing totally unrelated task from each other (guaranteeing near 100% parallelization)) it uses multiple cores on the system to do the same task (collaborate on a task), Cinebench on the other hand has 100% parallelizable task that doesn't depend on colaboration between the cores, in absence of turbo boost and power limit, Cinebench multicore to single core score ratio generally consistent to the amount of physical cores of the device.
I hear from other reviewers about how disappointing performance is from this chip, but judging from these tests I just don't see it. (Yeah, don't game on them, but that's not the market for them).
20:20 - I guess people should stop complaining about performance and just enjoy, my old overclocked i7-5820K gets score of 254 vector single, 330 combined multi, and my old GTX1080Ti pulls 5884 combined gpu score :)
Still testing it, but will do a video on that when I can. I expect it to be on par with Apple's M4 for NPU. Recent nVidia GPUs are likely to be considerably more performant.
All good with Snapdragon X elite. But Qualcomm dev kit is nowhere to be found and it's a crap show. Im unable to get the kit yet and there goes all the efforts to fasten adoptions. But I suppose the Windows OS is snappier now - ARM build.
As a huge open source advocate, I have huge hopes for RISC V. At the moment I'm using a Ryzen 7 8040u, and it's pretty good with Linux (fast, runs relatively cool, good battery life, excellent iGPU performance). I still have an "old" 14 inch ThinkPad with a Ryzen 7 5850u, and that's still pretty good today (for what I use it for, which is mostly Linux stuff, lots of compiling etc...). Personally, I don't need the "latest and greatest" running at a gazillion gigahertz. The most important things for me on a laptop is good battery life, good keyboard, reasonable display, "good enough" performance.
What's the situation with printer drivers on these laptops? I've got an old Brother 3040cn colour laser that doesn't really have windows 11 driver support, but the the old driver from 2013 still works for it. Apparently Windows RT had driver support built in, so I'm wondering if this carried over to Windows for ARM, is there a way of checking without buying one and just seeing if it's recognised?
1. Hardware and software teams inevitably work on their own piece of the puzzle of performance and efficiency with a degree of autonomy from one another. Yes, software people on a hardware team and vice versa is a positive development but that doesn't erase the distinction between teams it just softens some of the lines of demarcation. 2. The bigger problem is the existence of unrealised potential of hardware when yoked to software that for whatever reason impairs the ability of hardware to put on its best performance. The codevelopment of Apple hardware and software tends to overcome that problem - there is no unrealised potential in Apple hardware. But, we already know that the X Elite benchmarks better on Linux than on Windows. That shows the existence of such unrealised potential and it shows the need for further optimisation of the software. Has Microsoft got something better in the pipeline? Probably not, but at least it is good to know that more is available from the X Elite if only you use Linux.
I wish there was a single proper mail client available as a native ARM version. Yes, amd64 ones run, but having that one single thing that constantly runs in the background burning CPU cycles on prism is just so inefficient.
Yes, we need competition , but one done on equal terms as much as possible . Maybe you guys , all you need to know is what is latest product from x company and what is latest product from y company and then you do the comparison. But this has never been enough for me . Comparing the snapdragon x-elite(base model) with apple M3, is exactly like comparing apple M2 vs apple M3 and then say "oh, look at the work on M3 , it's for sure a more efficient silicon". But , my dear , of course it is , of course it is. But where is the comparison of snapdragon x-elite vs apple M2 vs amd ai 9 370? This is a fair comparison , and if you don't get why, I would rather never have an IT literacy even if a deep and extensive one, if I can't get why this comparison is essential and as fair as it can be. Regarding the software compatibility .Yes Microsoft had a ton of time to make it work, it could have done a much better job out of this. But you can't compare the sterilised limited apple world with the all-inclusive global windows world. Not the same at all. Again software compatibility is important , but these machines were ready for sales, just before apple M3 is going to be out of market and replaced by M4. If they really wanted to have a chance , they should strive to sell them at the same time when apple M2 came online, and if you don't understand why, you really don't need any analysis. Just go and buy the cheapest machine that can run your apps the fastest and runs for the longest time.
What happens when Microsoft has to start supporting both AMD/intel AND ARM chips for the foreseeable future? As a consumer, how do you know which one to purchase? Yes, you get more performance from ARM and battery life etc. But, intel and AMD aren't going away. And they don't seem to be moving away from x86. As efficient as they can make them. They most likely will not get to the same level of ARM. Maybe more performant but at the cost of heat, and power draw. Apple has the ability to move away from intel. I don't suspect the same for Microsoft. Its cool now, but at some point. This needs to be cleared up.
That's always a challenge. Microsoft probably is furious with Intel for decades now. But good news is that Nvdia might jump into ARM as soon as 2025 (Qualcomm has exclusivity until 2024). And it changes everything. But for average Consumers, it doesn't matter. This is good enough. The factor comes in after GPU/games in picture. If so switch to AMD ryzen AI 300 to get similar functionality plus graphics and perf.
Do developers want to support both? Keeping an OS maintained is difficult enough for M$. Now developers will have to either pick one or support both chips. Then what about severs? Virtualization. I’d love to move away from intel on the virtual side and server side. Smaller 1U servers packed with ram and storage and 10/25/100Gb NIC’s. Using half to 1/3 the power. I fully understand this is only the beginning but M$ has been down this road a few times and failed at it. I want more from this. But I fear this will go one way or another and lots of confusion in-between.
Just so you know, when comparing current Macbook prices, looking at the Apple Store price is unfair as Apple rarely discounts there. Look at Amazon, where 16GB/512GB is for sale for £1350. That is much closer to the X Elite pricing of comparable Samsung and Surface Snapdragons with their current discounts included. The base 15-inch M3 is now as low as £1150. So, people complaining about Apple pricing are wrong; they are very competitive, though the Windows versions have cheaper upgrade pricing (apart from Surface and Samsung), and many have 120Hz + OLED. After using the Surface Pro OLED and Surface Laptop 15, I think they are premium (expensive) ultrabooks, and the real story will be when Qualcomm releases their sub-£800 versions later in the cycle. The compromises are too great for the current pricing. Apple could get away with higher prices as Windows had no rival to the M-Chip, but that is not true for Snapdragons. However, prices fall as demand tails off after the huge marketing budget for ads and sponsorships. Dell has £250 off, Samsung £200, ASUS £100 off, which is undoubtedly due to the recent AMD5 launch.
As soon as you a MacBook with enough storage for 5 years usage (1TB flash), you get ripped off, very very badly! Apple wants everyone to buy a 16GB / 512GB mac, maximum, so they run out of storage too soon ...
for a first time product, this thing is great adreno supposedly is based on old radeon architecture, see how bad it does tells me they should rename that gpu or remove it and put a real radeon
Really like your video and analysis, but I am an linux user (not way I will buy a Pc with Windows precharged), and is more relevant to me benchmarks and use experinence in this plattform.
I'm in the same boat - have been using Linux for about 20 years now. I never want to pay for a Windows license when I purchase a laptop. I've been buying ThinkPads with the option to either select "Linux" as the OS, or "No OS".
@@MnemonicCarrier Well, I am really not a laptop user today, my desktop have a i3-7100 CPU 51Watts TDP and in these time was not laptops sufficient powerful and in actual times there is not desktop with less than 65w TDP is for this reason my next buy must be a Laptop.
@@pichincho7 I just ordered a new laptop, just waiting for delivery now. I bought a Dell with a Ryzen 7 8840u. I wanted something with a good iGPU and with lower power consumption.
@@pichincho7 It's a really good machine! It runs Linux flawlessly - even the fingerprint read "just works" out of the box (with KDE Plasma). It's a great "general purpose" Linux laptop.
It has taken me three years to work out why Apple Silicon laptops are unsuitable for most users. The problem is that most specialised apps are not available for either Intel or Apple Silicon Macs. They are usually available for x86 Linux but are not available for Macs. I work as a contract embedded software development engineer and most of the apps that I use are unavailable for Macs. I talked to a civil engineer who told me that similarly no civil engineering design apps are available for Macs. From reviews it seems to me that Apple Silicon Macs are only really useful for niche tasks such as video editing. I did initially think that Rosetta enabled windows x86 apps work on Apple Silicon but discovered that it can only be used to run MacOS x86 apps on Apple Silicon. Crossover can allow you to run x86 windows apps on Apple Silicon but worryingly Apple say that this is only there to allow software suppliers to port their apps to Macs and so I suspect that Apple will eventually place limits on what windows apps work on Apple Silicon. There are no such problems with windows 11 on arm where apps can easily be recompiled to generate real arm code or run transparently under emulation.
I agree with everything you said but I would say one thing that running engineering apps is the niche thing. 97% of people that buy laptops don’t run engineering apps. They do basic things like emails, browse the web or the occasionally gaming.
@@GlobalWave1 I have never seen a Mac computer in any company that I have worked for. It seems that none of the apps that anyone else uses in my companies are available on Macs. These apps would include timesheet booking and logging IT faults. Emailing, browsing the web and playing games are things that people do at home and so you are only justifying buying a Mac for home use. Also only 1% of AAA games work on a Mac and so Macs aren't really useful for hardcore gamers.
@@paulharrison8379 I guess you can make that argument but most computers most companies use are varied from office work to IT work but again IT or Engineering work is niche relative to home many computers are out there. Most office work don’t need specialized computers unless IT or engineering or similar fields. Crossover, gptk 2, Cxpatcher running steam can play quite a bit of newer games. In fact I’m currently playing Black Myth on my Mac. I bought it mainly for music production but game on the side if I have time.
dust does not make bad a machine, to be a problem it must have fluff, dog or cat hairs this happens after like 2 years or more, it can be a problem for the time you have to replace battery, and clean it at that moment will be a good idea as most laptops what dies first apart from battery is screen, keyboard, touchpad and usb ports it is a bigger concern to change a broken leyboard or a broken screen than the dust that migth not happen, ever
I do believe arm will replace x86, but for now compatibility is still not good enough for professional work of mostly any kind, only for home use, for now AMD is leading the pack, excelent battery life and excellent performance with 100% compatibility
There is no perfect OS but Windows turned into a user data miner. Apple makes it conveniant to use their cloud stuff, but they don't push it onto you. It feels like want's to eat the fruit and keep it. I wounder if they tested Windows 11 on ARM properly?
Got a look at pricing of Lenovo slim 7x at $1400 same as vivobook 14. Now they are charging 1600$ base model. After adding 32GB Ram and 1TB SSD the cost shot up to $2500 and then bought 8845HS based ThinkPad P14. Not even seeing strix point in India. Well surface lineup will be double so a DoA and like Qualcomm said in 2025 Arm laptop will be available at 800$ or even less just to cleanup their inventories. Bye Bye ARM laptops that cost an arm, leg and more
Is it possible that the Windows Industrial Complex is colluding to slow down hardware "advances" in order to protect their existing products and hold off the inevitable market fragmentation ?
Snapdragon X elite laptops don't have better battery life than MacBook Air. Quite the contrary. I don't know where that came from either than offline video playback with PCs that have larger batteries.
Not the only mistakes in the video, the M4 in iPad also nit directly compareable with the Macbook, the extra 4-6W heat generation from the display interfere with the chip thermals too, in a Macbook where the display generate that extra heat far away from the chip the performance of the chip is better (even in peak, but most importantly it start to throttling later, and throttling for less longer, what is also equal with more performance in overal at the end result)
Zen 5 literally makes this whole launch useless. No compatibility issues while delivering comparable performance and battery life. And don't call this their first outing, Qualcomm has been producing chips for various Windows devices for years now since 2012 actually. I am however interested in seeing how they perform on Linux, Windows 11 is utter rubbish.
Oh yeah you mean the developer kit they made developers return at their cost to get shredded before the m1’s came out…. lol not the best example there. Considering you had to pay apple what was like 500 dollars on top of the developer subscription and you couldn’t even keep the device rofl nor did you get your 500 dollars back rofl. So you pretty much pay 599 to get access to a box with an A12x chip to use for like was 6-8 months and had to send it back to apple.
It’s not enough to build the hardware. The trick is to transition the entire Windows OS ecosystem including all third party apps to ARM with nothing getting stuck on x86. Microsoft will never achieve this!
This video shows they are 95% of the way there. And regular customers themselves are buying these laptops as we speak and the reviews on Amazon and bestBuys sites are good. So as far as making a product that average people can buy and enjoy using, they’ve already done it.
@@shableepAnd honestly, it’s really impressive that they were able to do that without resorting to hardware cheating with something like a memory ordering switch. Now I just hope Snapdragon adopts SVT so that there can be AVX2 emulation like what’s being done on macOS.
he did not say that. he said it was a great laptop for users who do not game or create content.@@nnnnnn3647 I have the lenovo and I edit on davinci and use affinity with no problem at all. at least for my type of content.
I don't want to make the sheeps sad but, the ARM revolution started with Microsoft back in 2012 when they released Windows on ARM with Nvidia Tegra Chips. Apple just did as usual, copied, made a loooot of noise, and acted like if that was their idea
It's not true that the snapdragons outperform the MacBook Air in battery life! Maybe with video playback, it seems the qualcomm codecs are more efficient than Apple. But the mere fact that THERE IS NO FAN in the macbook air makes it virtually impossible for the snapdragon CPUs to outlast the macbook air in battery life!
lol, if you sell now, no one will buy, intel lost well over half of its price and it will keep losing price people are expecting to see it recover, meanwhile they sell cpus that burn themselves or rusted put cpus buy qualcom, amd, nvidia, perhaps nvidia not, the ai bubble will burst soon
![[28] Scary Faster: The Future of Windows on Snapdragon - Gerard Williams, Qualcomm](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/2vJ_13WwMSw/mqdefault.jpg)
Its an absolute joy to listen to a tech video with no effing music, thanks.
I just switch to a Snapdragon x Plus machine - it replaces my Notebook with the i7 13th Gen. In Real Life I doesn't notice any performance gaps. Lightroom works fast, watching 4K Videos works well, my printer and all my external drives works without any issues. I also try out Capture One (emulated). It works and is fine, but it performs better on my M2 Mac. What else? Office and browsing in the web is great.
I rarely comment, but I really like your measured, thoughtful take on this topic. Subscribed.
The release of M1 was a miracle: I had no issues. As soon as the M1max arrived, I had a big for 2 months, but since then: no (notice) troubles at all. The same after M2 Ultra 192GB arrived. No noticeable troubles.
Nostalgia glasses. I had to support or developers when M1 was new, there was tons of compatibility problems, I hated those computers for professional work.
@@TalynOne True. Though for those of us who have a gaming PC it was the perfect laptop
This is one of the most compréhensive and unbiased video on these devices that I have see. So unbiased it will probably tickle some apologetic Apple fans, although most Apple users will probably recognise how good it is.
I would call past WoA attempts as side-quests rather than any sort of concerted effort. Microsoft waited so long for Intel for a solution but it never came. The Qualcomm X series is the first time WoA can be considered serious.
80% of the big apps are now ARM native, excluding games.
Very in-depth review analysis!
Very interesting and informative video👌 I daily drive my Dell XPS with snapdragon as it's smoother than even my top-spec Asus Proart P16 with AMD Ryzen Ai 9 hx370. Only thing that's not working for me is VMware Workstation and a USB Serial adapter. Everything else just flies😊
Even though I'm mainly a Mac user (except for my Windows gaming desktop), I think this is great stuff. Having competition benefits everyone. I put my wife's M2 Air through my Logic Pro torture tests and that thing is amazing. Did get a little warm but never slowed down. My company has a Snapdragon test unit and we are putting it through the paces now. Intel should be scared.
How do you make this setup work? Like do you have botch pc and Mac plugged into one monitor and switch between them? You use Mac for work right? I have the same setup but I’m always conflicted on which one to use for productivity since both can do well at it..
@@Bluestarferies Yeah I have dual monitors and I'm using the DP/HDMI inputs in the monitors to switch between the Mac and Windows machine. This means I can bring up both my Windows machine on one monitor and then my Mac on the 2nd monitor. I can also run dual monitor for one of the machines to since my monitors have up to 3 inputs.
Ditto for me, Mac user with a Windows gaming PC. I've had Surface devices in the past, and I think the Snapdragon Surface laptop sets a high bar for the hardware (although I'm not the least bit interested in AI).
@@bryans8656 I'm not a fanboy for either side. I use them as tools and don't care about allegiance to any one company. Gaming on a Mac is lame even though I'll be curious to see if more game developers try with raytracing on the new M chips.
@@marksaxonFor work I use a Desktop PC running Windows on a 32 core Threadripper. Great hardware but I really don’t like Windows. At home, I use a Mac. Yes gaming is lame but I have an XBox Series X so I don’t care.
Im very happy with my snapdragon x elite. It runs forever, super smooth! The most mac feeling windows laptop ive had.
Great video.
The SD X Elite is an ARM server soc.
It was designed to take up to 80 watts of sustained input power.
Running it at full power, would kick Apple's butt.
But alas, you would need desktop cooling/water and would not be battery device friendly lol.
😂
I bought the Lenovo Slim 7x and it's honestly the best Windows laptop I've ever owned. The screen is stunning, keyboard is flawless, battery life is impressive, there is virtually no fan noise, and the build quality is excellent. I'm pleased Lenovo and Microsoft are finally bringing the heat on Apple.
FYI: Thunderbolt 3 has been offered on a number of AMD cpu hosting motherboards for 5+ years, and obviously Apple silicon, and Thunderbolt 4 is part of the USB4 spec, so not just an INTEL thing. You also missed "Linux 6.10 Adds eDP/DisplayPort Support For The Snapdragon X Elite", so if you have an eGPU and fancy dual booting one of the machines into an unstable Linux distribution there may be support for NVIDIA GPU's, at least, as there are drivers that are buildable from source.
I'd be interested in trying Linux on a SnapDragon, perhaps when there's more support and the prices of SnapDragon laptops fall.
underated video
Apple managed the transition from x86 to arm so well. I was able to transfer my complete workflow on my M1 Max and even under Rosetta2 everything was running fast and well. I wish II could upgrade my Windows laptop too but I don’t think that Windows on Arm will reach this level of reliability soon. I also need the gpu power of at least a Silicon Max and the Snapdragon Chips have nothing to offer in this category.
The X Elite's Adreno GPU is indeed horrible, and the odd is that the Adreno GPUs inside Snapdragon for smartphones are miles ahead on tests comparing to Bionic's GPUs. There will be an Nvidia SoC for Windows next year built through a partnership with Mediatek. It seems it will use Blackwell microarchitecture for the GPU. It this holds true, the the graphic performance will be very powerful.
If they want Windows on ARM to take off they need to make the all day battery the focus of the marketing rather than all this AI nonsense.
The X Elite has 12 performance cores vs. 4 on the M3.
This has likely a much bigger influence on multi-core performance than thermal throttling.
eGPU support is gonna be crucial as long as Apple Silicon lacks. Especially for ML.
Nvdia drivers though :(
@@MrKar18 I guess we will have it soon. Driver support on windows is top notch unlike Apple.
That's up to Nvidia, AMD and Intel, they're the ones that would have to supply the ARM video drivers.
very informative video thank you
fan noise is pure stress. I need an absolutely silent computer. There will always be a lack of computing power
I've owned the Slim 7x for over a month, I don't remember ever hearing the fan. And the few times I did, I had to struggle to notice it.
Found this channel since June, when he talked about "Thunderbolt" for 2013 Mac Pro. And, what I like Apart from his accent, the explanation fits me perfectly. Also, I just feel like "Neutral" when watching type of video like this as well 😁😅
What I’ve have gotten is that’s the cpu performance isn’t that bad its mainly driver and app support and what I have been seeing most of the app support are games that generally perform poorly or just crash out due to shitty display drivers for windows. I really feel that Qualcomm could have gotten more help with Microsoft on this or just worked with Microsoft on the first gen elite chips at least until they got the graphics’s drivers sorted.
I work in the enterprise IT space and this Snapdragon stuff doesn't really move the needle. X86 compatibility is key for us. I view these chips as interesting and something to keep an eye on.
Due to the snapdragons having a fan to cool the cpu, wouldn’t the MacBook Pro M1 have been more of an apples to apples comparison instead of an MacBook Air M1?
Thank you for this thoughtful comparison.
I think the discrepancy between the ratio of multi core to single core score between Geekbench 6 and Cinebench comes from the nature of the task parallelization ratio of both.
Geekbench ever since the version 5 changed the way on how multithreading is scored (rather than doing totally unrelated task from each other (guaranteeing near 100% parallelization)) it uses multiple cores on the system to do the same task (collaborate on a task), Cinebench on the other hand has 100% parallelizable task that doesn't depend on colaboration between the cores, in absence of turbo boost and power limit, Cinebench multicore to single core score ratio generally consistent to the amount of physical cores of the device.
Great video. My key takeaway this time was to switch to Affinity haha :)
I hear from other reviewers about how disappointing performance is from this chip, but judging from these tests I just don't see it. (Yeah, don't game on them, but that's not the market for them).
Great and balanced material 👍
20:20 - I guess people should stop complaining about performance and just enjoy,
my old overclocked i7-5820K gets score of 254 vector single, 330 combined multi, and my old GTX1080Ti pulls 5884 combined gpu score :)
Can you run llm using snapdragon GPU ? Or npu ? Does it run well compared to Nvidia GPU ?
Still testing it, but will do a video on that when I can. I expect it to be on par with Apple's M4 for NPU. Recent nVidia GPUs are likely to be considerably more performant.
All good with Snapdragon X elite. But Qualcomm dev kit is nowhere to be found and it's a crap show. Im unable to get the kit yet and there goes all the efforts to fasten adoptions.
But I suppose the Windows OS is snappier now - ARM build.
As a huge open source advocate, I have huge hopes for RISC V. At the moment I'm using a Ryzen 7 8040u, and it's pretty good with Linux (fast, runs relatively cool, good battery life, excellent iGPU performance). I still have an "old" 14 inch ThinkPad with a Ryzen 7 5850u, and that's still pretty good today (for what I use it for, which is mostly Linux stuff, lots of compiling etc...). Personally, I don't need the "latest and greatest" running at a gazillion gigahertz. The most important things for me on a laptop is good battery life, good keyboard, reasonable display, "good enough" performance.
The comment I've been looking for.. kindly compare win 11 Vs Linux on AMD 5000 series
@@neroetal Why? What's the verdict? Personally, I couldn't care less about benchmarks and the like, I just care about doing what I need to do.
Will there be a windows like metal api ? will rendering apps like dvanci and graphics app become faster on these x elite laptops?
What's the situation with printer drivers on these laptops? I've got an old Brother 3040cn colour laser that doesn't really have windows 11 driver support, but the the old driver from 2013 still works for it. Apparently Windows RT had driver support built in, so I'm wondering if this carried over to Windows for ARM, is there a way of checking without buying one and just seeing if it's recognised?
Most likely will work, my printer is about 8 years old and worked out of the box.
1. Hardware and software teams inevitably work on their own piece of the puzzle of performance and efficiency with a degree of autonomy from one another. Yes, software people on a hardware team and vice versa is a positive development but that doesn't erase the distinction between teams it just softens some of the lines of demarcation.
2. The bigger problem is the existence of unrealised potential of hardware when yoked to software that for whatever reason impairs the ability of hardware to put on its best performance. The codevelopment of Apple hardware and software tends to overcome that problem - there is no unrealised potential in Apple hardware. But, we already know that the X Elite benchmarks better on Linux than on Windows. That shows the existence of such unrealised potential and it shows the need for further optimisation of the software. Has Microsoft got something better in the pipeline? Probably not, but at least it is good to know that more is available from the X Elite if only you use Linux.
Nice beard you old Silicium pirate. Harrrrr harrr
I wish there was a single proper mail client available as a native ARM version. Yes, amd64 ones run, but having that one single thing that constantly runs in the background burning CPU cycles on prism is just so inefficient.
Yes, we need competition , but one done on equal terms as much as possible .
Maybe you guys , all you need to know is what is latest product from x company
and what is latest product from y company and then you do the comparison.
But this has never been enough for me .
Comparing the snapdragon x-elite(base model) with apple M3,
is exactly like comparing apple M2 vs apple M3 and then say
"oh, look at the work on M3 , it's for sure a more efficient silicon".
But , my dear , of course it is , of course it is.
But where is the comparison of snapdragon x-elite vs apple M2 vs amd ai 9 370?
This is a fair comparison , and if you don't get why, I would rather never have
an IT literacy even if a deep and extensive one, if I can't get why this comparison
is essential and as fair as it can be.
Regarding the software compatibility .Yes Microsoft had a ton of time to make it work, it could have
done a much better job out of this. But you can't compare the sterilised limited apple world
with the all-inclusive global windows world. Not the same at all.
Again software compatibility is important , but these machines were ready for sales, just before
apple M3 is going to be out of market and replaced by M4. If they really wanted to have a chance ,
they should strive to sell them at the same time when apple M2 came online, and if you don't
understand why, you really don't need any analysis. Just go and buy the cheapest machine that can
run your apps the fastest and runs for the longest time.
What happens when Microsoft has to start supporting both AMD/intel AND ARM chips for the foreseeable future?
As a consumer, how do you know which one to purchase? Yes, you get more performance from ARM and battery life etc. But, intel and AMD aren't going away. And they don't seem to be moving away from x86. As efficient as they can make them. They most likely will not get to the same level of ARM. Maybe more performant but at the cost of heat, and power draw.
Apple has the ability to move away from intel. I don't suspect the same for Microsoft. Its cool now, but at some point. This needs to be cleared up.
That's always a challenge. Microsoft probably is furious with Intel for decades now. But good news is that Nvdia might jump into ARM as soon as 2025 (Qualcomm has exclusivity until 2024). And it changes everything.
But for average Consumers, it doesn't matter. This is good enough. The factor comes in after GPU/games in picture. If so switch to AMD ryzen AI 300 to get similar functionality plus graphics and perf.
Do developers want to support both? Keeping an OS maintained is difficult enough for M$. Now developers will have to either pick one or support both chips. Then what about severs? Virtualization. I’d love to move away from intel on the virtual side and server side. Smaller 1U servers packed with ram and storage and 10/25/100Gb NIC’s. Using half to 1/3 the power.
I fully understand this is only the beginning but M$ has been down this road a few times and failed at it. I want more from this. But I fear this will go one way or another and lots of confusion in-between.
Apple is petty, for blocking iTunes. Apple Silicon is ARM based lol.
Silly goose's.
Say hi to the team, miss seeing them. ❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤
finally waited years for it
Just so you know, when comparing current Macbook prices, looking at the Apple Store price is unfair as Apple rarely discounts there. Look at Amazon, where 16GB/512GB is for sale for £1350. That is much closer to the X Elite pricing of comparable Samsung and Surface Snapdragons with their current discounts included. The base 15-inch M3 is now as low as £1150. So, people complaining about Apple pricing are wrong; they are very competitive, though the Windows versions have cheaper upgrade pricing (apart from Surface and Samsung), and many have 120Hz + OLED.
After using the Surface Pro OLED and Surface Laptop 15, I think they are premium (expensive) ultrabooks, and the real story will be when Qualcomm releases their sub-£800 versions later in the cycle. The compromises are too great for the current pricing. Apple could get away with higher prices as Windows had no rival to the M-Chip, but that is not true for Snapdragons. However, prices fall as demand tails off after the huge marketing budget for ads and sponsorships. Dell has £250 off, Samsung £200, ASUS £100 off, which is undoubtedly due to the recent AMD5 launch.
As soon as you a MacBook with enough storage for 5 years usage (1TB flash), you get ripped off, very very badly! Apple wants everyone to buy a 16GB / 512GB mac, maximum, so they run out of storage too soon ...
for a first time product, this thing is great
adreno supposedly is based on old radeon architecture, see how bad it does tells me they should rename that gpu or remove it and put a real radeon
Really like your video and analysis, but I am an linux user (not way I will buy a Pc with Windows precharged), and is more relevant to me benchmarks and use experinence in this plattform.
I'm in the same boat - have been using Linux for about 20 years now. I never want to pay for a Windows license when I purchase a laptop. I've been buying ThinkPads with the option to either select "Linux" as the OS, or "No OS".
@@MnemonicCarrier Well, I am really not a laptop user today, my desktop have a i3-7100 CPU 51Watts TDP and in these time was not laptops sufficient powerful and in actual times there is not desktop with less than 65w TDP is for this reason my next buy must be a Laptop.
@@pichincho7 I just ordered a new laptop, just waiting for delivery now. I bought a Dell with a Ryzen 7 8840u. I wanted something with a good iGPU and with lower power consumption.
@@MnemonicCarrier Wish the best with it!!
@@pichincho7 It's a really good machine! It runs Linux flawlessly - even the fingerprint read "just works" out of the box (with KDE Plasma). It's a great "general purpose" Linux laptop.
It has taken me three years to work out why Apple Silicon laptops are unsuitable for most users. The problem is that most specialised apps are not available for either Intel or Apple Silicon Macs. They are usually available for x86 Linux but are not available for Macs. I work as a contract embedded software development engineer and most of the apps that I use are unavailable for Macs. I talked to a civil engineer who told me that similarly no civil engineering design apps are available for Macs. From reviews it seems to me that Apple Silicon Macs are only really useful for niche tasks such as video editing.
I did initially think that Rosetta enabled windows x86 apps work on Apple Silicon but discovered that it can only be used to run MacOS x86 apps on Apple Silicon. Crossover can allow you to run x86 windows apps on Apple Silicon but worryingly Apple say that this is only there to allow software suppliers to port their apps to Macs and so I suspect that Apple will eventually place limits on what windows apps work on Apple Silicon.
There are no such problems with windows 11 on arm where apps can easily be recompiled to generate real arm code or run transparently under emulation.
I agree with everything you said but I would say one thing that running engineering apps is the niche thing. 97% of people that buy laptops don’t run engineering apps.
They do basic things like emails, browse the web or the occasionally gaming.
@@GlobalWave1 I have never seen a Mac computer in any company that I have worked for. It seems that none of the apps that anyone else uses in my companies are available on Macs. These apps would include timesheet booking and logging IT faults.
Emailing, browsing the web and playing games are things that people do at home and so you are only justifying buying a Mac for home use. Also only 1% of AAA games work on a Mac and so Macs aren't really useful for hardcore gamers.
@@paulharrison8379 I guess you can make that argument but most computers most companies use are varied from office work to IT work but again IT or Engineering work is niche relative to home many computers are out there.
Most office work don’t need specialized computers unless IT or engineering or similar fields.
Crossover, gptk 2, Cxpatcher running steam can play quite a bit of newer games. In fact I’m currently playing Black Myth on my Mac.
I bought it mainly for music production but game on the side if I have time.
U should have used the 80 variant bcs it's close to m3
although apple has no fans, its less likely to get dust inside. is this true? which makes apple air better in the long run?
dust does not make bad a machine, to be a problem it must have fluff, dog or cat hairs
this happens after like 2 years or more, it can be a problem for the time you have to replace battery, and clean it at that moment will be a good idea
as most laptops what dies first apart from battery is screen, keyboard, touchpad and usb ports
it is a bigger concern to change a broken leyboard or a broken screen than the dust that migth not happen, ever
I do believe arm will replace x86, but for now compatibility is still not good enough for professional work of mostly any kind, only for home use, for now AMD is leading the pack, excelent battery life and excellent performance with 100% compatibility
The issue is running Linux on both Apple and Qualcomm
Qualcomm are working on Linux drivers, so that will come. I can confirm that Ubuntu works fine under WSL.
There is no perfect OS but Windows turned into a user data miner. Apple makes it conveniant to use their cloud stuff, but they don't push it onto you. It feels like want's to eat the fruit and keep it. I wounder if they tested Windows 11 on ARM properly?
Got a look at pricing of Lenovo slim 7x at $1400 same as vivobook 14. Now they are charging 1600$ base model. After adding 32GB Ram and 1TB SSD the cost shot up to $2500 and then bought 8845HS based ThinkPad P14. Not even seeing strix point in India. Well surface lineup will be double so a DoA and like Qualcomm said in 2025 Arm laptop will be available at 800$ or even less just to cleanup their inventories. Bye Bye ARM laptops that cost an arm, leg and more
Is it possible that the Windows Industrial Complex is colluding to slow down hardware "advances" in order to protect their existing products and hold off the inevitable market fragmentation ?
Snapdragon X elite laptops don't have better battery life than MacBook Air. Quite the contrary. I don't know where that came from either than offline video playback with PCs that have larger batteries.
Not the only mistakes in the video, the M4 in iPad also nit directly compareable with the Macbook, the extra 4-6W heat generation from the display interfere with the chip thermals too, in a Macbook where the display generate that extra heat far away from the chip the performance of the chip is better (even in peak, but most importantly it start to throttling later, and throttling for less longer, what is also equal with more performance in overal at the end result)
Zen 5 literally makes this whole launch useless. No compatibility issues while delivering comparable performance and battery life. And don't call this their first outing, Qualcomm has been producing chips for various Windows devices for years now since 2012 actually. I am however interested in seeing how they perform on Linux, Windows 11 is utter rubbish.
This is the first outing for the Nuvia team, producing a chip design that is significantly removed from ARM's reference designs.
I'm just waiting for Linux support. Apple and Microsoft are both terrible.
Everything is waaaay better with Linux
Oh yeah you mean the developer kit they made developers return at their cost to get shredded before the m1’s came out…. lol not the best example there. Considering you had to pay apple what was like 500 dollars on top of the developer subscription and you couldn’t even keep the device rofl nor did you get your 500 dollars back rofl. So you pretty much pay 599 to get access to a box with an A12x chip to use for like was 6-8 months and had to send it back to apple.
Developers received $500 credit upon returning the DTK.
The Qualcomm dev kit has already been axed and recalled.
It’s not enough to build the hardware. The trick is to transition the entire Windows OS ecosystem including all third party apps to ARM with nothing getting stuck on x86. Microsoft will never achieve this!
This video shows they are 95% of the way there. And regular customers themselves are buying these laptops as we speak and the reviews on Amazon and bestBuys sites are good. So as far as making a product that average people can buy and enjoy using, they’ve already done it.
@@shableep only for casual users.
@@shableepAnd honestly, it’s really impressive that they were able to do that without resorting to hardware cheating with something like a memory ordering switch.
Now I just hope Snapdragon adopts SVT so that there can be AVX2 emulation like what’s being done on macOS.
he did not say that. he said it was a great laptop for users who do not game or create content.@@nnnnnn3647 I have the lenovo and I edit on davinci and use affinity with no problem at all. at least for my type of content.
Gen 1.. This is Gen1. Don't forget that. Plus ARM windows is very very snappy than x86 apparently.
I don't want to make the sheeps sad but, the ARM revolution started with Microsoft back in 2012 when they released Windows on ARM with Nvidia Tegra Chips. Apple just did as usual, copied, made a loooot of noise, and acted like if that was their idea
This the same Apple that were equal shareholders in ARM with Acorn when it was spun off as a separate company back in the early nineties?
Linux? 👀
there is no linux distro supporying arm windows laptops up to this date, still people developing
for mac, no idea
bungled lol. wintel till windows dies.
It's not true that the snapdragons outperform the MacBook Air in battery life! Maybe with video playback, it seems the qualcomm codecs are more efficient than Apple. But the mere fact that THERE IS NO FAN in the macbook air makes it virtually impossible for the snapdragon CPUs to outlast the macbook air in battery life!
ruclips.net/video/u1XJAOf_W5w/видео.html
Please could say that again? I didn't hear it very well 🤣🤣🤣
Sell Intel shares. Everyone will be moving to arm laptop within 10 years
lol, if you sell now, no one will buy, intel lost well over half of its price and it will keep losing price
people are expecting to see it recover, meanwhile they sell cpus that burn themselves or rusted put cpus
buy qualcom, amd, nvidia, perhaps nvidia not, the ai bubble will burst soon
you never mentioned efficiency and battery life for each, X Elite is far worse