I have a few quads rigged with HDZero, and I just received my first 1Watt. Although I tend to fly cinnewhoops and I like the clarity of HDZero when I am trying to fly smooth and keep tracking on a subject. Analog still has a place in my toolbox though. I don't actually own any DJI gear so that is a level of built in bias.
Naaaah Monsieur Bardwell. Great video, I'm super interested in the evolution of HdZero, but I have 8 quads and a wing and I'll stick to analog exclusively for the price of digital setups. If I were to choose, I'd choose HdZero mainly because it's not DJI, so you're right about that. I feel like giving my money not to a multimillion dollar multinational but to a company closer to the hobbyists.
Don't worry guys, I recently purchased the dji set up after years of waiting for something better. Since I went all in i'm sure there will be lots of new cheaper digital set ups coming quickly. its my luck.
I think it will last long since hdzero can be compared with DJI, I mean, they are doing and absolutely nice job, but man y saw the dji vs the hdzero and dji is fucking ridiculous how it looks, it's amazing!!! I think you did a good job buying it
Nice and fair review. I think your conclusions are spot on. Parking garage performance is lower than I'd expect, but I also don't fly in that environment. Biggest benefit of HDZero vs other digital options is the breadth of applications (1s whoop to 5" freestyle / race to long range wing) and a healthy community relationship with the owner, Carl. Thanks Carl for working so hard for us!
a bit of after market support, and warranty would be greatly appreciated, a whoop board that stops working after 2 flights on 2s is inacceptable, all the more when Divimath support isn't responding to any email.
Was searching and searching for this comment. Cant believe no one said anything. "Got to get out of here, got to get out of here..." Yeah, I think that had less to do with the cold and a little more to do with what he realized.... Lol
Hard to imagine people are upset with this video. Great work JB. You even go above and beyond reaching out to Ryan to review results first. Fair, Objective, Informative and Detailed. What more can we ask for from JB...
Joshua, I enjoyed this video. I felt like you put in a lot of effort to do a good and fair test, and I appreciated the even-handed presentation of the benefits of each system. As you've stated, I don't think it's a unilateral all-or-nothing answer as to which system is best, and I felt that you represented that well. Thanks for putting this together.
the houston night spot testing showed we can also go 2 up with the right settings both at 1W at the same time. Pretty nice how this system is evolving so fast.
@@eatyourvegfpv Yea, I accidentally was logged into the wrong account for my comment. But I can see that in the footage and performance. I think if he had the better patches this test would have been much closer, along the lines of what my test results showed. But still I feel it's pretty good and accurate for bone stock out of the box performance.
I don't own any FPV... just have a DJI Mini 1.0 with Litchi iOS app in a VR-google solution... I fucking love it! but I wish I had the Mini 2.0 with Ocusync and the same setup... I just can't afford the official DJI FPV stuff... but to me this video also showed there is just ZERO reason for MANY of us to not go for DJI... YES i know WHY and there are situation the other might be prefered... BUT i mean c'mon that amazing quality goodness means barely any eye-cancer!
Excellent review Joshua! I think you nailed it regarding the cultural choice. At this point in time, for my type of flying, I am without question missing out a bit by deciding to fly HDZero instead of going DJI. However, I am happy to support a company like HDZero as I want to see more competition in the digital space and I think having companies that are fully committed to the FPV hobby will, ultimately, improve things for us. So I decide to take a hit in order to support the potential HDZero has. Hopefully it won't bite me back 😆
I agree with your sentiment, but it's not a "hit" or a downgrade from DJI. Both systems has benefits and drawbacks, people just need to pick the best for them.
@@trekkin_fpv5272 yeah that's 100% fair. I meant it purely for me personally, as for my type of flying I'd likely benefit more with DJI :) Though coming from analog it's still a fantastic upgrade imho.
Okay, as a DJI pilot thank you for including DJI in the garage test. As a former analog pilot, it’s easy to forget how much better HDZero video image quality is.. until you see it back to back with analog footage. God I wanted it to have the penetration capability sooooo flipping bad 😔. I hope it’ll get there with additional development.
As a radio technician the idea of powering the VTX directly off the battery that is powering 4x motors makes me ill. Snark aside, I don't think the issue with your parking deck test is power, it's other issues. If you can manage to not freeze, I think a 500mW test there would be interesting. When multipathing and electrical service are causing the interference more power won't always fix the problem, and may even exacerbate it. I'd be willing to bet that the DJI link has some very sophisticated signal filtering in play here. Another test you could run would be to leave the transmitter in one spot in the garage, and take a spectrum analyzer around to various points, figure out some SNR and noise floor. This would really help demonstrate multipathing noise.
Been flying analog and have accepted its limitations. I am platform agnostic. But when DJI came along it was expensive to switch. Got on digital cheaply when the SharkByte/HDZero vrx was $99. So far, I like the variants (whoop, freestyle, etc.) offered by HDZero. Also like the transparency of the HDZero development trajectory and its user community. My new builds will have HDZeros.
The reason a lot of people "love" HDZero, is because it's not DJI. For me, it sits bang in the middle between analogue and DJI. It's better image quality (when it's clear) than analogue, and better video latency than DJI. Personally, I would almost categorize it as digital analogue, if that makes sense. I would certainly never compare it to DJI anymore though. That's like comparing a mid sized saloon car which does great mileage, to a supercar. They're not trying to be the same thing and they're both great at what they ARE for.
"HDZero wants you to be their customer" And I want to be able to afford to be their customer, but alas, for now I have to be happy with the analog gear I scored for cheap in 2020.
I asked you in a recent live stream and there is more detail to the analog hdzero and a bit of dji topic. This just proved me that I need to wait a bit more for hdzero improvements and stick to analog / dji. Thank you for summarizing everything so nice and objective! I really appreciate your work 🙏
Thanks Joshua for your honest review. Each system has its advantages and disadvantages. HDZERO has made a lot of progress, and we can expect to see more progress coming. And thanks a lot for all your great work.
You called it perfectly with the dji peoples thoughts. Thanks for showing that along with the analog and hd zero. I find the downside of dji is if it drops, there’s no recovering it. Other than that I love the dji system.
If you switch back to 25Mbps you'll find that DJI's signal degrades more gracefully (giving you more warning) and recovers from total loss of signal pretty quickly. 50Mbps can take a very long time, to never..
@@revfpv7908 Ya, when it goes it goes, meaning you see a black screen, but if you put analog or HDZero up against DJI at the same power level in the same NLoS situation I think you'd find analog and HDZero have completely "gone" to 100% static well before DJI gives up. At least that's been my experience (I tested it fairly extensively). I find that I just have to be cognizant of the warning signs DJI provides (Focus mode, lower bitrate, a few stutters) and not just keep pushing it deeper out of LoS until it quits. In many hundreds of flights, I've only lost the signal completely about 4-5 times and I'm almost always pushing it at or just beyond LoS. Couple weeks ago I purposely flew behind a huge rock 2.5 miles out, signal cut out for about 1.5 seconds, and recovered, which is to be expected.
It really is incredible how well a signal can be received 3 floors down through concrete and rebar. HD Zero ain't for me and I don't think it'll actually look good any time soon either. I hope I'm wrong though, I don't love the idea of giving my money to DJI for any and all HD needs. Great review JB, this is exactly what we need to see!
Eh, I'll stick with analog a little longer. I think HDZero might need to do a few things with their hardware and firmware. Maybe they could make some form of focus mode based on the RSSI of the control signal, sort of like DJI does it. That would probably increase the penetration by quite a bit. Feed this data into the VTX by smart audio, for example.
HDZero will NEVER have the focus mode because it relies on one-way communication and has no data buffer, unlike DJI which retransmits data in case of a damaged packet.
@@nupixelfpv I know, that's why I said that they could potentially send RSSI from the control link (value of 0-1023) to the VTX via Smart Audio. When the quads control link signal starts going down, the VTX alters the way it sends image data to the VRX. This would be a way to actually have two-way communication, even if the VRX can't communicate to the VTX. So you wouldn't have any retransmitting, but with a reduced control signal strength, the VTX could start sending reduced resolution, for example. If the VTX has no image buffer to do encoding on the fly, then it's a problem, of course.
@@thirdpartycookie Maybe they could just make different error correction and resolution profiles that can be switched really fast. So you just have a switch on your controller and can set the parameters you want really fast while flying.
Another big benefit is the cost factor. I don't know how things are in the US but here in Europe I can get my hands on a HDZero system including the 1W VTX, Scout HD goggles and a Foxeer Digisight Micro V3 for about 420-450€. If the 200mW VTX is enough you are looking at 400€. With DJI I would have to pay 600€ for the goggles only, let alone the air unit and camera... This was the decisive argument for me to go with HDZero even in this pretty early state and as a beginner.
a flying buddy of mine just got a HDzero system and i have to say, it looked way, way better than analogue. but the thing we both were amazed of was that he on ch1 400mw with HDzero, me on ch1 DJI 50mbps 700mw we had no interface that would give problems flying. when he passed straight in front of me, i've gotten some micro stutters in my feed, and when i flew straight in front of him he's gotten some minimal lines and a few sprites, when he was flying analogue we had to stay very far apart on channels, and i would still blow his video out if i passed him. so now we can fly together without having to check channels or even announcing plugging in.. i'll stay on DJI for my quads (and analogue for my long range planes for many reasons) but will advice anyone who doesn't want to go DJI digital to ditch analogue and go HD zero..
If anyone is looking for a frame that will fit hdzero freestyle perfectly without going to a 20x20 FC, look no further than the Iflight Cidora sl5v2.1. It comes with a single antenna mount as well as the dual air unit mount in the photos. Make sure you get m3x16 screws to replace the m3x14 screws that hold part of the arms and center standoffs, the ones it comes with aren’t long enough and strip out.
The transmission power (1W) is not alone a way to compare it to the other systems. The other important parameter is the receiver's sensitivity (smaller signal it can recognize). Hopefully they can improve the receiver in the future and better performance can be expected.
It really is surprising just how much of a difference there is between devices. It makes me hopeful for the future of this tech, there's still room to grow.
A lot has changed since this video came out. The Freestyle VTX was updated to run off of 6s batteries and now the V2 freestyle VTX is coming out at the end of September 2023. We also finally have the Goggles out and you can get some really nice antennas for them. HDZero is constantly improving and they are a really awesome company that listens to it's users. That is enough for me to switch to HDZero. I know that DJI performs better in some areas but I just don't want to deal with them based on who they are as a company.
Pretty fair review, and I am an HDZero user. I would say that I would have preferred that you used the supplied antenna. Curious that your parking garage performance seemed worse than what some other videos have demonstrated.
I still don't get why HDZero does not use forward error correction (like Reed-Solomon) to get rid of breakup. I would gladly sacrifice a few pixels of resolution for a more robust connection and there should be more than enough computing power to do FEC.
Really good video dude. I race analogue/HDZero and freestyle dji. You probably went easy on hdzero and I love HDZero 😂 Clear fair test, I think for penetration it went dji, analogue, hdzero.
The biggest draw for me to HDZero is what you mentioned towards the end, the involvement with the community and the fact they're actually listening. Secondary would be that I fly a lot of micros/whoops and DJI is simply not going to compete when it comes to weight savings. With that said, the parking lot penetration test was pretty disappointing. I really hope something can be done to get performance better without increasing power.
Check the DJI whoop playlist on my channel, it can absolutely compete even with analog and you still even can't build a lighter HDZero whoop than that at the moment (you will be able to when the new whoop board is finally out, but still, DJI is so much better I'll happily carry a few extra grams).
@@FilipRadelic checked a couple of your DJI vids and it's definitely respectable, but still wouldn't be on par with people running whoops in the sub 22g dry weight range. Every turn is an extra tenth of a second or so. It's absolutely good enough for fun races but I think a competitive racer would pick analog every time for weight savings. I know I might sound pedantic but every gram matters so much.
It makes me wonder if HDZero could have benefitted from better tuned antennas. Wesley mentioned that HDZero outputs the most power around 5650MHz, and the only antennas that I could find that are tuned to that frequency are TBS Triumph/Triumph Pros. Additionally, I suspect that the RF metering tool might have told the truth there - Wesley also mentioned that there is currently a firmware bug which in some cases prevents the VTX from reaching its max output power. Quoting Wesley, "The VTX doesn't set the correct 1 Watt power output if the BEC isn't able to supply instantaneous current during power switching". It might have been fixed in the firmware by now (assuming you've upgraded yours) but it's still a good idea to check if maybe the BEC is preventing the VTX from reaching its full potential. Wesley's metering tool also showed a full 1W when he tested the VTX. What do you think?
I fly DJI, analog and HDZero. HDZero is by far my favorite flight experience and I'm loving the 1w. Works great in the FPVCycle Incisor frame. However I agree with your comments and still fly DJI or analog when I'm in a nasty multipath environment (indoor cinewhoops are a good example). Also, personally I turn down the saturation on that HDZero camera for a more natural image.
Nice test that you did. I would be interested in seeing the results of this test done in the summer also. The reason why is that leaves on trees tend to block signals. Now I know the test was in a parking garage. But if you was to use it out in the area you will be most likely putting leaves between you and me the copter. As radio frequencies rise in the spectrum it is also becomes more bouncy. And things light leaves will absorb signal also. There is so much fun things on this subject it's crazy. But needless to say. my brother and I are ham radio operators and in the winter 440Mhz goes further than it does in the summer. Reason leaves. Nice video loved everything about it
Yo Joshua I just got my nazgul evoque f5X for 6s and was wondering if you have some prop recommendations if there’s anything better for freestyle than the ones on it and one set for cruising more efficiency
The power meter accuracy may be due to a switching attribute of digital. Same thing happens with our kenwood radios dig vs analog with our watt meters.
Fantastic work, Joshua! Really great testing! 😃 You know, for me this system is more than mature enough. Yeah, analog can still be better, but think about it. How many video transmitters and receivers are there? You were using pretty specialized equipment to fly analog! So what we need now is to more companies to jump in and make hardware as well. TBS, Rush FPV, Immersion RC... You know? Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
As somebody who has a unique background in RF - sending radio signals through and around concrete is just hard. Add in metal and other stuff... it stays challenging. It is what it is.
I have switched from analog to HDZ for my mountain surfing quad flights. It gives me slightly higher image quality than analog does to avoid obstacles and see the home point. I. Be loving it for this over analog. This test was relevant for covered structured flying which i never do. IMHO the vtx is a little too large plus the need to add a BEC for my build should have been built in. Thanks for an excellent, fair, review that covered all types of quad flying.
I got the Shark Byte bundle last year from Rotor Riot on sale for $169. Considering I already Fatshark goggles it just made sense to me being the cheapest way into digital fpv. Now if I had money to burn sure I would've got DJI, but for people on a budget, for racers, or anyone who already has some analog goggles I feel like you get a good bang for the buck. I just got the new Freestyle VTX in my 5 inch paired with the HDZero Micro V2 cam and it slaps.
Oh great video!@ And most states have a law that you have to clear off your video of the snow and ice before you hit the roadways...that way it doesn't blow off and damage other cars... :)
The resolution is just lower, it looks pretty bad but improved over time. I have two DJI goggles and 9 units. It took me close to three years to pull it all in...
Something I would not be interested in. Looks like you will pull the wires off in the first couple of crashes. Then the mounting issues. Not worth it. Plenty of other choices. Great job as always Jashua. You are the best. I will be a patreon after the Holidays. Let it flow, let it flow, let it flow. Happy Holidays.
Great video and honest review, thx. I did the multiple 25mw-1W test myself and found similar results. I’m still happy with the improvement and love the company for constantly working to improve for its customers and I’m excited to see continued growth. But truth is there’s no magical unicorn 🦄 fairy 🧚♀️ dust yet 🤷♂️
First of all: THANK YOU Joshua for this great review! And for what you said about us "HDZero guys" , those thoughts were exactly what I feel. (You learned something today 😆) I am happy to have the HDZero setup for the most spots I fly and still keep some analog quads for difficult environments. It's all on the HDO2 anyways!
Great review! Is the 500mw double-decker vtx not considered an HDZero product? We have a bunch of those (8? 10?) so your statement about the 200mw limit to HDZero products before this vtx is confusing.
The 500 mW vTX was only made in a limited run at the beginning of SharkByte's release and then no more. So I carefully worded it as, "... that you can buy," to cover that base.
For a host of reasons, I am focused on micros. When the day comes that I can get DJI quality digital video on my Mobula 6, I'm there. I wish the focus was on making things smaller/lighter/less-power-hungry, not on going from low-latency to ultra-low-latency. I get it from a business perspective, but... I want what I want :).
This is why Amateur Radio operators talk around the world in disaster situations on Analog HF frequencies. Digital is fun, but it either works, or it doesn't. There isn't any gray area, where Analog gives a lot more room for error to get the signal through. 73 Jacques Redmond - WW1ZRD
fyi: New high-performance concrete has small fibers mixed in (those prevent cracking), some incidentially are conductive. Expect some new buildings to dampen even more in future.
Still want to try Fatshark HD0’s but it’s not quite in the budget quite yet. Also wouldn’t mind to get the Shark Byte antenna. The VTX also with the outer shell heat sink to help with cooling. Has anyone thought about a small cooling fan for it? But more things to power, less flight time.
I have to admit he has a lot of good information. extremely enjoy watching his video. I have a few setbacks. For health reasons, possibly a surgery, autism doesn't help the situation when you become obsessed over a hobby 😂. But anyways. So I'm just going to take it easy. enjoy the videos and soak up the information. untill next year hopefully.
How different is the output you measure on channel 1 versus channel 8? I learned from Westley that a lot of VTX (including HDZero) output significantly less at ~5900 mHz vs 5600 and have changed to using R1 instead of R8.
That also has to do with the way the power meter processes a digital signal versus an analog signal. It's not mentioned in the video, but that's one of the reasons you probably need specialized equipment to do a proper measurement.
The power meter measures peak power regardless of the type of signal. Carl's Agilent meter is measuring area-under-the-curve (channel power) which is the possible reason for the different measurement. Which one is "correct" is a matter of some discussion.
Thanks for sharing... HDZero is nice, but missing range for bandos... in this I am definitely in one line with you. What I really miss in DJI is Canvas mode, that is so true !!!
It still is personal preference. For newcomers and people who have expensive analog googles like HDO2/3 - probably. For people who migrated to DJI HD FPV ecosystem - most likely not. To expand HDZero user base, they must improve picture and especially - receiving quality. For example HDZero have sent packet repeating to improve picture quality, but they choose to not use it. Would be nice to have it optionally to get either good picture quality or low latency with noise possible to choose for user.
Good coverage of the 1W VTX JB. - Parking garage performance was about what I expected. If that’s the type of environments you fly (inc. office parks etc.) DJI is 100% the way to go IMO. - The screenshot of the proper power measurement should be all anyone needs to prove the out of the box performance. Carl is one of the most upfront and genuine guys I know who makes FPV products, and I 100% trust his proof that 1W is actually 1W. Shame the IRC meter cannot reliably be used to verify that your VTX is healthy after some extended use, but in terms of the power output from a brand new VTX straight from the box, that screenshot should squash any argument to the contrary. Now the debate around measurement techniques is interesting though… - The one big selling point for supporting HDZ right now that did not get a mention here is the promise that it can one day replace richwave as the one and only supplier of an RF chipset for low latency FPV, which any VTX manufacturer can adopt easily (and hopefully relatively cheaply with better adoption) for building VTXs. HDZ may be far more expensive than analog right now, and have subpar penetration performance, but I personally feel like it has potential to be the nail in analogs coffin at some point in the near future, which is a vision I can get onboard with.
After some consultation, I believe the reason the IRC meter reads different is that Carl is measuring the full channel power (area-under-the-curve) while the IRC meter measures peak power. Peak power is typically how analog vTX are measured, but when going with a digital transmission system, or when comparing digital to analog, peak power can be misleading. I can't, however, explain why your IRC meter measured 1W and mine measured 600 mW.
For HDZero to take over from Richwave, the price has to come down. And currently, as far as I know, HDZero is selling at a loss and there is still barely any margin for retailers. This is potentially the biggest threat HDZero faces right now in my opinion.
Are you ready to give up analog now?
Noo I think analog for racing ist the best way. Cheap and with a good camera the best choice. And for freestyle also best choice. And Longrange also..
I have a few quads rigged with HDZero, and I just received my first 1Watt. Although I tend to fly cinnewhoops and I like the clarity of HDZero when I am trying to fly smooth and keep tracking on a subject. Analog still has a place in my toolbox though. I don't actually own any DJI gear so that is a level of built in bias.
No, because of the price.
i'm ready. take my money gimme a vrx
Naaaah Monsieur Bardwell. Great video, I'm super interested in the evolution of HdZero, but I have 8 quads and a wing and I'll stick to analog exclusively for the price of digital setups. If I were to choose, I'd choose HdZero mainly because it's not DJI, so you're right about that. I feel like giving my money not to a multimillion dollar multinational but to a company closer to the hobbyists.
Don't worry guys, I recently purchased the dji set up after years of waiting for something better. Since I went all in i'm sure there will be lots of new cheaper digital set ups coming quickly. its my luck.
Dude same......i just got dji 2 weeks ago
Isnt orqa somewhat close to releasing theirs?
I think it will last long since hdzero can be compared with DJI, I mean, they are doing and absolutely nice job, but man y saw the dji vs the hdzero and dji is fucking ridiculous how it looks, it's amazing!!! I think you did a good job buying it
Yeah, I feel your pain. 😬
Thank you good man.
Nice and fair review. I think your conclusions are spot on. Parking garage performance is lower than I'd expect, but I also don't fly in that environment. Biggest benefit of HDZero vs other digital options is the breadth of applications (1s whoop to 5" freestyle / race to long range wing) and a healthy community relationship with the owner, Carl. Thanks Carl for working so hard for us!
a bit of after market support, and warranty would be greatly appreciated, a whoop board that stops working after 2 flights on 2s is inacceptable, all the more when Divimath support isn't responding to any email.
Breadth of application really is the key, I do a little bit of everything, HDZero allows me todo that and then some!
@@cedricgrandseigne keep trying. I know the support team works hard to help people. Carl himself often does direct support
The DJI video really brought out some great details on that SUV you went by a couple times... @21:00 it sure looks like a cop...
Was searching and searching for this comment. Cant believe no one said anything. "Got to get out of here, got to get out of here..." Yeah, I think that had less to do with the cold and a little more to do with what he realized.... Lol
I tried to like this video three separate times. That's how comprehensive this video is.
21:00 I don't want to go near that car. You mean the Cop? Solid video and super informative. Thank you.
Hard to imagine people are upset with this video. Great work JB. You even go above and beyond reaching out to Ryan to review results first. Fair, Objective, Informative and Detailed. What more can we ask for from JB...
I think Mr Bardwell this was definitely the best HDzero video you've done.
Excellent video
Joshua, I enjoyed this video. I felt like you put in a lot of effort to do a good and fair test, and I appreciated the even-handed presentation of the benefits of each system. As you've stated, I don't think it's a unilateral all-or-nothing answer as to which system is best, and I felt that you represented that well. Thanks for putting this together.
Thanks for continuing to cover HDZero Mr. Bardwell.
the houston night spot testing showed we can also go 2 up with the right settings both at 1W at the same time. Pretty nice how this system is evolving so fast.
@Joseph Carbone He said in reply to another comment here that his DJI goggles were fitted with iFlight Crystal patches.
@@eatyourvegfpv Yea, I accidentally was logged into the wrong account for my comment. But I can see that in the footage and performance. I think if he had the better patches this test would have been much closer, along the lines of what my test results showed. But still I feel it's pretty good and accurate for bone stock out of the box performance.
@@JoeMommaFPV so with aftermarket antennas hdzero way better?
@@eatyourvegfpv Yeah, those work great and for not much dough either! :)
@@TheBlaznbowls Not even close! lol
I’ve given up analog a while ago but I’m not going to give up my DJI digital HD anytime soon…. That last flight of yours kind of proved my point
I don't own any FPV... just have a DJI Mini 1.0 with Litchi iOS app in a VR-google solution... I fucking love it!
but I wish I had the Mini 2.0 with Ocusync and the same setup... I just can't afford the official DJI FPV stuff...
but to me this video also showed there is just ZERO reason for MANY of us to not go for DJI...
YES i know WHY and there are situation the other might be prefered...
BUT i mean c'mon that amazing quality goodness means barely any eye-cancer!
Love it , been watching so many Videos on HDzero and I finally ordered the vtx 🤩
Excellent review Joshua! I think you nailed it regarding the cultural choice. At this point in time, for my type of flying, I am without question missing out a bit by deciding to fly HDZero instead of going DJI. However, I am happy to support a company like HDZero as I want to see more competition in the digital space and I think having companies that are fully committed to the FPV hobby will, ultimately, improve things for us. So I decide to take a hit in order to support the potential HDZero has. Hopefully it won't bite me back 😆
I agree with your sentiment, but it's not a "hit" or a downgrade from DJI. Both systems has benefits and drawbacks, people just need to pick the best for them.
I'm sticking to my DJI set up this is for the others that haven't made the switch to digital. I'm %100 satisfied with DJI goggles
@@trekkin_fpv5272 yeah that's 100% fair. I meant it purely for me personally, as for my type of flying I'd likely benefit more with DJI :) Though coming from analog it's still a fantastic upgrade imho.
@@trekkin_fpv5272 Oh, but it is huge hit! It's not even close! Did you watch the video? DJI was crystal clear on every floor!
@@LehtusBphree2flyFPV Right on, Bro! The others aren't remotely close!
Awesome overview I'm kind of surprised with the parking garage test great content as usual 👍🔥
Okay, as a DJI pilot thank you for including DJI in the garage test. As a former analog pilot, it’s easy to forget how much better HDZero video image quality is.. until you see it back to back with analog footage. God I wanted it to have the penetration capability sooooo flipping bad 😔. I hope it’ll get there with additional development.
2:52 As engineer I recommend keeping those two board apart lest you get more noise. Turn that into a tailfin if you must.
I'm glad i chosen For dji last winter instead of waiting for sharkbyte. I still have analog to. And love it for His simplicity to.
I love the DJI interface. You can basically change anything about the video system and the quad no problem.
Your description of HD-ZERO is spot on. FOR THE PEOPLE BY THE PEOPLE
As a radio technician the idea of powering the VTX directly off the battery that is powering 4x motors makes me ill.
Snark aside, I don't think the issue with your parking deck test is power, it's other issues. If you can manage to not freeze, I think a 500mW test there would be interesting. When multipathing and electrical service are causing the interference more power won't always fix the problem, and may even exacerbate it.
I'd be willing to bet that the DJI link has some very sophisticated signal filtering in play here.
Another test you could run would be to leave the transmitter in one spot in the garage, and take a spectrum analyzer around to various points, figure out some SNR and noise floor. This would really help demonstrate multipathing noise.
jus throw a cap on ther bruh it'll be fiiine
I think Joshua works on wifi so he may cringe a bit himself too
Thanks for freezing you butt of for us doing the testing. It was great thanks, learned something today 😉
I'm very happy with the dji I'm running but its awesome to see how far hdzero is coming along so great watch!!!
I might buy the hdzero system just to help fund their innovation of it
freezing with the sun out is a nice day in the winter here! greetings from Colorado.
Been flying analog and have accepted its limitations. I am platform agnostic. But when DJI came along it was expensive to switch. Got on digital cheaply when the SharkByte/HDZero vrx was $99. So far, I like the variants (whoop, freestyle, etc.) offered by HDZero. Also like the transparency of the HDZero development trajectory and its user community. My new builds will have HDZeros.
I feel hdzero is new and just getting started. Its only going to get better, and i can't wait to see whats coming down the pike.
The reason a lot of people "love" HDZero, is because it's not DJI.
For me, it sits bang in the middle between analogue and DJI. It's better image quality (when it's clear) than analogue, and better video latency than DJI.
Personally, I would almost categorize it as digital analogue, if that makes sense.
I would certainly never compare it to DJI anymore though. That's like comparing a mid sized saloon car which does great mileage, to a supercar. They're not trying to be the same thing and they're both great at what they ARE for.
it's digital, but it doesn't deal with errors the same way DJI does, so it looks very similar to analog at times.
that comparing is good, because there is a lot of people, who dont know, if they want mid sized saloon car or supercar.
This is worse than analog.
@@boobo well that's just not true at all if you've seen any direct comparisons.
"HDZero wants you to be their customer"
And I want to be able to afford to be their customer, but alas, for now I have to be happy with the analog gear I scored for cheap in 2020.
You're lucky to not have purchased hdzero and stick with analog it seems. And for the price to performance comparison, I will stick with analog also.
Good job. Hdzero biggest issue is the unfortunate timing of these supply issues driving up cost.
I asked you in a recent live stream and there is more detail to the analog hdzero and a bit of dji topic. This just proved me that I need to wait a bit more for hdzero improvements and stick to analog / dji. Thank you for summarizing everything so nice and objective! I really appreciate your work 🙏
Thanks Joshua for your honest review. Each system has its advantages and disadvantages. HDZERO has made a lot of progress, and we can expect to see more progress coming.
And thanks a lot for all your great work.
Crazy! This place is a location on the simulator on the PS4. It looked familiar, once I saw the trampoline I knew for sure. Great vid 👍
You called it perfectly with the dji peoples thoughts. Thanks for showing that along with the analog and hd zero. I find the downside of dji is if it drops, there’s no recovering it. Other than that I love the dji system.
If you switch back to 25Mbps you'll find that DJI's signal degrades more gracefully (giving you more warning) and recovers from total loss of signal pretty quickly. 50Mbps can take a very long time, to never..
@@daemn42 I’m always on 25mb but it seems that when it goes it goes.
@@revfpv7908 Ya, when it goes it goes, meaning you see a black screen, but if you put analog or HDZero up against DJI at the same power level in the same NLoS situation I think you'd find analog and HDZero have completely "gone" to 100% static well before DJI gives up. At least that's been my experience (I tested it fairly extensively). I find that I just have to be cognizant of the warning signs DJI provides (Focus mode, lower bitrate, a few stutters) and not just keep pushing it deeper out of LoS until it quits. In many hundreds of flights, I've only lost the signal completely about 4-5 times and I'm almost always pushing it at or just beyond LoS. Couple weeks ago I purposely flew behind a huge rock 2.5 miles out, signal cut out for about 1.5 seconds, and recovered, which is to be expected.
@@daemn42 I agree! DJI simply doesn't hardly ever completely cut out. I don't do long range, so it
s never happened once to me.
A tantalum capacitor across the +5/Gnd DC line on the VTX can reduce the glitch noise.
A huge like for using the quad for selfie camera! I am also doing it sometimes and this should be default from now on :D
Wow Just finished the clip and the range/ penetration was a disaster. Fatshark or DJI. At least you are helping me narrow it down. Thanks again Jashua
It really is incredible how well a signal can be received 3 floors down through concrete and rebar. HD Zero ain't for me and I don't think it'll actually look good any time soon either. I hope I'm wrong though, I don't love the idea of giving my money to DJI for any and all HD needs. Great review JB, this is exactly what we need to see!
I agree with you as first times user and i appreciate last video when addressed camera focus problems. Thanks for sharing your experience
Eh, I'll stick with analog a little longer. I think HDZero might need to do a few things with their hardware and firmware. Maybe they could make some form of focus mode based on the RSSI of the control signal, sort of like DJI does it. That would probably increase the penetration by quite a bit. Feed this data into the VTX by smart audio, for example.
HDZero will NEVER have the focus mode because it relies on one-way communication and has no data buffer, unlike DJI which retransmits data in case of a damaged packet.
@@nupixelfpv I know, that's why I said that they could potentially send RSSI from the control link (value of 0-1023) to the VTX via Smart Audio. When the quads control link signal starts going down, the VTX alters the way it sends image data to the VRX. This would be a way to actually have two-way communication, even if the VRX can't communicate to the VTX. So you wouldn't have any retransmitting, but with a reduced control signal strength, the VTX could start sending reduced resolution, for example. If the VTX has no image buffer to do encoding on the fly, then it's a problem, of course.
@@ojkolsrud1 they don’t have a frame buffer. There is also no encoding.
@@thirdpartycookie I see - then forget it=P
@@thirdpartycookie Maybe they could just make different error correction and resolution profiles that can be switched really fast. So you just have a switch on your controller and can set the parameters you want really fast while flying.
Another big benefit is the cost factor. I don't know how things are in the US but here in Europe I can get my hands on a HDZero system including the 1W VTX, Scout HD goggles and a Foxeer Digisight Micro V3 for about 420-450€. If the 200mW VTX is enough you are looking at 400€. With DJI I would have to pay 600€ for the goggles only, let alone the air unit and camera... This was the decisive argument for me to go with HDZero even in this pretty early state and as a beginner.
Seems like a good review. I have invested in HDzero mostly because I’m betting on the future, hopefully it will keep improving.
a flying buddy of mine just got a HDzero system and i have to say, it looked way, way better than analogue.
but the thing we both were amazed of was that he on ch1 400mw with HDzero, me on ch1 DJI 50mbps 700mw we had no interface that would give problems flying. when he passed straight in front of me, i've gotten some micro stutters in my feed, and when i flew straight in front of him he's gotten some minimal lines and a few sprites, when he was flying analogue we had to stay very far apart on channels, and i would still blow his video out if i passed him.
so now we can fly together without having to check channels or even announcing plugging in..
i'll stay on DJI for my quads (and analogue for my long range planes for many reasons) but will advice anyone who doesn't want to go DJI digital to ditch analogue and go HD zero..
If anyone is looking for a frame that will fit hdzero freestyle perfectly without going to a 20x20 FC, look no further than the Iflight Cidora sl5v2.1. It comes with a single antenna mount as well as the dual air unit mount in the photos. Make sure you get m3x16 screws to replace the m3x14 screws that hold part of the arms and center standoffs, the ones it comes with aren’t long enough and strip out.
HDZero - Whoops and Micros (x
The transmission power (1W) is not alone a way to compare it to the other systems. The other important parameter is the receiver's sensitivity (smaller signal it can recognize). Hopefully they can improve the receiver in the future and better performance can be expected.
It really is surprising just how much of a difference there is between devices. It makes me hopeful for the future of this tech, there's still room to grow.
Very good review Josh, glad you went thru all the trouble, and I've to say this is a very fair review..*thumbs up*
Thank you for helping me get my drone in the air
I like the music you had in the beginning.
Great video Joshua! Very helpful info and thanks for the analogies.
A lot has changed since this video came out. The Freestyle VTX was updated to run off of 6s batteries and now the V2 freestyle VTX is coming out at the end of September 2023. We also finally have the Goggles out and you can get some really nice antennas for them. HDZero is constantly improving and they are a really awesome company that listens to it's users. That is enough for me to switch to HDZero. I know that DJI performs better in some areas but I just don't want to deal with them based on who they are as a company.
Pretty fair review, and I am an HDZero user.
I would say that I would have preferred that you used the supplied antenna. Curious that your parking garage performance seemed worse than what some other videos have demonstrated.
I still don't get why HDZero does not use forward error correction (like Reed-Solomon) to get rid of breakup. I would gladly sacrifice a few pixels of resolution for a more robust connection and there should be more than enough computing power to do FEC.
Thank you, mr. Bardwell! As always for good info and clear understandable English 👍
70 to below zero is brutal!!!!!
How come we won't see the "jitters" in the DVR? :( Is the onboard recording only?
Really good video dude. I race analogue/HDZero and freestyle dji. You probably went easy on hdzero and I love HDZero 😂
Clear fair test, I think for penetration it went dji, analogue, hdzero.
The biggest draw for me to HDZero is what you mentioned towards the end, the involvement with the community and the fact they're actually listening. Secondary would be that I fly a lot of micros/whoops and DJI is simply not going to compete when it comes to weight savings. With that said, the parking lot penetration test was pretty disappointing. I really hope something can be done to get performance better without increasing power.
You can: get some upgraded antennas like the truerc patches along with dual axiis, that should improve things!
Check the DJI whoop playlist on my channel, it can absolutely compete even with analog and you still even can't build a lighter HDZero whoop than that at the moment (you will be able to when the new whoop board is finally out, but still, DJI is so much better I'll happily carry a few extra grams).
@@FilipRadelic checked a couple of your DJI vids and it's definitely respectable, but still wouldn't be on par with people running whoops in the sub 22g dry weight range. Every turn is an extra tenth of a second or so. It's absolutely good enough for fun races but I think a competitive racer would pick analog every time for weight savings. I know I might sound pedantic but every gram matters so much.
@@d3c0deFPV for competitive races they wouldn’t let you use dji anyway 🙁
@@FilipRadelic The rules for MultiGP used to be stricter, but now it's just
It makes me wonder if HDZero could have benefitted from better tuned antennas. Wesley mentioned that HDZero outputs the most power around 5650MHz, and the only antennas that I could find that are tuned to that frequency are TBS Triumph/Triumph Pros. Additionally, I suspect that the RF metering tool might have told the truth there - Wesley also mentioned that there is currently a firmware bug which in some cases prevents the VTX from reaching its max output power. Quoting Wesley, "The VTX doesn't set the correct 1 Watt power output if the BEC isn't able to supply instantaneous current during power switching". It might have been fixed in the firmware by now (assuming you've upgraded yours) but it's still a good idea to check if maybe the BEC is preventing the VTX from reaching its full potential. Wesley's metering tool also showed a full 1W when he tested the VTX.
What do you think?
I fly DJI, analog and HDZero. HDZero is by far my favorite flight experience and I'm loving the 1w. Works great in the FPVCycle Incisor frame. However I agree with your comments and still fly DJI or analog when I'm in a nasty multipath environment (indoor cinewhoops are a good example). Also, personally I turn down the saturation on that HDZero camera for a more natural image.
I have the cam and vtx, just waiting for the receive to be back in stock. Can't wait to switch!
Nice test that you did. I would be interested in seeing the results of this test done in the summer also. The reason why is that leaves on trees tend to block signals. Now I know the test was in a parking garage. But if you was to use it out in the area you will be most likely putting leaves between you and me the copter. As radio frequencies rise in the spectrum it is also becomes more bouncy. And things light leaves will absorb signal also. There is so much fun things on this subject it's crazy. But needless to say. my brother and I are ham radio operators and in the winter 440Mhz goes further than it does in the summer. Reason leaves. Nice video loved everything about it
You have to get some tips from captain drone about flying in coldness, he has flown in -20°C so -4°F sometimes
Yo Joshua I just got my nazgul evoque f5X for 6s and was wondering if you have some prop recommendations if there’s anything better for freestyle than the ones on it and one set for cruising more efficiency
The power meter accuracy may be due to a switching attribute of digital. Same thing happens with our kenwood radios dig vs analog with our watt meters.
Fantastic work, Joshua! Really great testing! 😃
You know, for me this system is more than mature enough. Yeah, analog can still be better, but think about it. How many video transmitters and receivers are there? You were using pretty specialized equipment to fly analog!
So what we need now is to more companies to jump in and make hardware as well. TBS, Rush FPV, Immersion RC... You know?
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
As somebody who has a unique background in RF - sending radio signals through and around concrete is just hard. Add in metal and other stuff... it stays challenging.
It is what it is.
I have switched from analog to HDZ for my mountain surfing quad flights. It gives me slightly higher image quality than analog does to avoid obstacles and see the home point. I. Be loving it for this over analog. This test was relevant for covered structured flying which i never do. IMHO the vtx is a little too large plus the need to add a BEC for my build should have been built in. Thanks for an excellent, fair, review that covered all types of quad flying.
great video,its your facial expressions that show your opinions,for me anyway,for example at 26:21 made me chuckle lol
I got the Shark Byte bundle last year from Rotor Riot on sale for $169. Considering I already Fatshark goggles it just made sense to me being the cheapest way into digital fpv. Now if I had money to burn sure I would've got DJI, but for people on a budget, for racers, or anyone who already has some analog goggles I feel like you get a good bang for the buck. I just got the new Freestyle VTX in my 5 inch paired with the HDZero Micro V2 cam and it slaps.
Oh great video!@ And most states have a law that you have to clear off your video of the snow and ice before you hit the roadways...that way it doesn't blow off and damage other cars... :)
Cool to see the Boa getting some use! Also, nice to know that the new 1W vtx fits without modification :)
Look into NVIDIA broadcast for the fan noise in the background, it does wonders
I'm glad i chosen For dji last winter instead of waiting for sharkbyte. I still have analog to.
The resolution is just lower, it looks pretty bad but improved over time. I have two DJI goggles and 9 units. It took me close to three years to pull it all in...
We are really lucky to have u dude
Something I would not be interested in. Looks like you will pull the wires off in the first couple of crashes. Then the mounting issues. Not worth it. Plenty of other choices. Great job as always Jashua. You are the best. I will be a patreon after the Holidays. Let it flow, let it flow, let it flow. Happy Holidays.
Great video and honest review, thx. I did the multiple 25mw-1W test myself and found similar results. I’m still happy with the improvement and love the company for constantly working to improve for its customers and I’m excited to see continued growth. But truth is there’s no magical unicorn 🦄 fairy 🧚♀️ dust yet 🤷♂️
When we talked 2 and a 1/2 years ago about digital receiver for Fatshark,,, you said it would never happen,,,,, well look it now! 😉
First of all: THANK YOU Joshua for this great review! And for what you said about us "HDZero guys" , those thoughts were exactly what I feel.
(You learned something today 😆)
I am happy to have the HDZero setup for the most spots I fly and still keep some analog quads for difficult environments.
It's all on the HDO2 anyways!
Really grateful that you eventually did compare them with DJI ).
Thanks, I only fly long range & I'd love some better quality!
Nice "crumbs" analogy, Joshua Shakespeare.23:33
My freestyle vtx and Micro cam should arrive today or tomorrow. Can't wait to try it out.
Great review! Is the 500mw double-decker vtx not considered an HDZero product? We have a bunch of those (8? 10?) so your statement about the 200mw limit to HDZero products before this vtx is confusing.
The 500 mW vTX was only made in a limited run at the beginning of SharkByte's release and then no more. So I carefully worded it as, "... that you can buy," to cover that base.
@@JoshuaBardwell I've almost got the 1watt version ready to test. It'll be interesting to see how it does against our 500mw units.
For a host of reasons, I am focused on micros. When the day comes that I can get DJI quality digital video on my Mobula 6, I'm there. I wish the focus was on making things smaller/lighter/less-power-hungry, not on going from low-latency to ultra-low-latency. I get it from a business perspective, but... I want what I want :).
I hope they are in stock soon looking to leave the ol dominator v3 behind and build a new quad
You hit full "Bob Ross" mode around the 11:30 mark. Smooth, calm, narration.
This is why Amateur Radio operators talk around the world in disaster situations on Analog HF frequencies. Digital is fun, but it either works, or it doesn't. There isn't any gray area, where Analog gives a lot more room for error to get the signal through.
73
Jacques Redmond - WW1ZRD
Is it not possible to implement a fusion type function for HDzero which combines the best signal from each antenna?
It's absolutely doing that behind the scenes.
Thanks. A great video to understand the actual performance directly.
fyi: New high-performance concrete has small fibers mixed in (those prevent cracking), some incidentially are conductive. Expect some new buildings to dampen even more in future.
I get almost same clarity on a fixed wing plane analog setup
I look forward to HDzero getting better, especially the small light stuff. For now, however, DJI on 3.5 inch and up and analog on the 3 inch and down.
I want a 200 watt locked micro DJI VTX, dreams.
Still want to try Fatshark HD0’s but it’s not quite in the budget quite yet. Also wouldn’t mind to get the Shark Byte antenna.
The VTX also with the outer shell heat sink to help with cooling. Has anyone thought about a small cooling fan for it? But more things to power, less flight time.
I have to admit he has a lot of good information. extremely enjoy watching his video. I have a few setbacks. For health reasons, possibly a surgery, autism doesn't help the situation when you become obsessed over a hobby 😂. But anyways. So I'm just going to take it easy. enjoy the videos and soak up the information. untill next year hopefully.
I think the point of the comparisons is pretty much moot, except for one little detail... Where are the HDZero receivers I can purchase today?
How different is the output you measure on channel 1 versus channel 8? I learned from Westley that a lot of VTX (including HDZero) output significantly less at ~5900 mHz vs 5600 and have changed to using R1 instead of R8.
I measured about 600 mW on R1 and 200 mW on R8.
That also has to do with the way the power meter processes a digital signal versus an analog signal. It's not mentioned in the video, but that's one of the reasons you probably need specialized equipment to do a proper measurement.
The power meter measures peak power regardless of the type of signal. Carl's Agilent meter is measuring area-under-the-curve (channel power) which is the possible reason for the different measurement. Which one is "correct" is a matter of some discussion.
Thanks for sharing... HDZero is nice, but missing range for bandos... in this I am definitely in one line with you. What I really miss in DJI is Canvas mode, that is so true !!!
It still is personal preference. For newcomers and people who have expensive analog googles like HDO2/3 - probably. For people who migrated to DJI HD FPV ecosystem - most likely not. To expand HDZero user base, they must improve picture and especially - receiving quality. For example HDZero have sent packet repeating to improve picture quality, but they choose to not use it. Would be nice to have it optionally to get either good picture quality or low latency with noise possible to choose for user.
I'm itching to try this system, however the receiver is nowhere to be found.
Good coverage of the 1W VTX JB.
- Parking garage performance was about what I expected. If that’s the type of environments you fly (inc. office parks etc.) DJI is 100% the way to go IMO.
- The screenshot of the proper power measurement should be all anyone needs to prove the out of the box performance. Carl is one of the most upfront and genuine guys I know who makes FPV products, and I 100% trust his proof that 1W is actually 1W. Shame the IRC meter cannot reliably be used to verify that your VTX is healthy after some extended use, but in terms of the power output from a brand new VTX straight from the box, that screenshot should squash any argument to the contrary. Now the debate around measurement techniques is interesting though…
- The one big selling point for supporting HDZ right now that did not get a mention here is the promise that it can one day replace richwave as the one and only supplier of an RF chipset for low latency FPV, which any VTX manufacturer can adopt easily (and hopefully relatively cheaply with better adoption) for building VTXs. HDZ may be far more expensive than analog right now, and have subpar penetration performance, but I personally feel like it has potential to be the nail in analogs coffin at some point in the near future, which is a vision I can get onboard with.
After some consultation, I believe the reason the IRC meter reads different is that Carl is measuring the full channel power (area-under-the-curve) while the IRC meter measures peak power. Peak power is typically how analog vTX are measured, but when going with a digital transmission system, or when comparing digital to analog, peak power can be misleading.
I can't, however, explain why your IRC meter measured 1W and mine measured 600 mW.
For HDZero to take over from Richwave, the price has to come down. And currently, as far as I know, HDZero is selling at a loss and there is still barely any margin for retailers. This is potentially the biggest threat HDZero faces right now in my opinion.