@@peternguyen1858it’s like the people who blindly defend the teams when they’re bad don’t have all the information. There’s a reason NA viewership is down. People realized the better play is in Asia.
@@grandarchon6969 ??? How is this even relevant to what I said, NA gets shit on a lot and deservedly many times, but like I can’t want my region to do well and say that most of the people who clown on the players are not even on the same skill level, they’re spectators who look at numbers and not at performance.
@@peternguyen1858I know you mean to say that they are "here" because of some higher level of discipline, skill, etc. required. And you are right, but the output of these players leads to the conclusion that: a) the talent pool is awful if these are the best players Or b) the extra level of discipline and skill required is not that substantial, so almost "anyone" could be in their place which means the number of eligible players is small. So I know you want to, but I really don't see how the region can do well and if you want criticism to be suppressed then you are actually blindly defending them.
We had the dom vs thorin on who is the na goat (doublelift vs Bjergsen) Can we get a part 2 of who is the jungle goat ? Blaber vs xmithie! Would be hype to watch
thought it was a weird hill die on frankly. an average fan is not gonna see what he sees and just enjoys the cast. monte said it right, we should be happy to have decent casters at all because its only a matter of time until we no longer do due to the success of co-streams and all we have left is a screeching rat stream
I will gladly give up the first round of the main stage to have better matches later on! although the format isn't perfect I like seeing more inter-regional competition!
I actually liked thorins take on the Massu vs Busio issue, it's like yeah let's give Busio a chance but how about we actually give Massu the chance he fucking deserves
Its so crazy how few international competitions league has had to this point. Dota had 23 international tournaments in a year worth points and shockingly there has been so much more region competitive balance.
The argument of Caedrel going big because he was the star of the "lec show" does not hold up. He did not participate to any of the skits which were successful, like "rekkles with my heart". Drakos and Vedi were behind them, and pretending that their "starpower overshadows the player" is frankly ridiculous.
Here to see if Thorin or Monte actually get on Bwipo and Inspired for inting the entire series away. EDIT: Thorin actually criticized Bwipo, holy shit. And now Inspired! Holy hell, I was not expecting that at all...
thorin was battling shadows with that rant xd Noah said that that he wanted to avenge Ruler by beating TOP, Thorin phrases it as if Noah's boasting about the fact he is at MSI while Ruler is not, and on top of it he's talking about Viper and not Ruler for some reason xd
by the way, when are we going to get the next episode of banter give and go? really like the basketball talk, and i think there are quite a lot of discussions to be had at the moment.
@@baygeebob7536true. He only lived there for years, loved it and said it's one of the best countries(if not the best), always praising LCK players like Chovy, old Starcraft players and the competitivo scene, etc. He must really hate LCK and South Korea in general.
He knows nothing. He overrates Knight so much its insane. Dude cant even play AZIR. Classic Thorin though, his favourite players: Froggen, Larssen, Flame and Knight. All overrated af and never was the best at their roles.
@@agronnakwhat a great way to spin it, completely ignore the fact he’s been LPL biased for years in every single tournament, even admitting it’s his favorite league to watch, but ya, he lived in Korea!!!
FLY mentally only plays through top so Bwipo inting is a big problem. Unfortunately from their public statements, Inspired and Bwipo think the other three players don't understand the game at a pro caliber level so FLY is probably screwed even in domestic next split if other teams just focus on slamming Bwipo
Im sorry but the narrative that Caedrel is on his way "to become one of the biggest streamers" is insane. The big majority of his viewers are league esports fans bc that's where he built his brand, his variety/soloq streams are nowhere near the size of this costreams, "graduating from league" would be the worst thing he can do
Because Monte actually watches and knows the game, and Thorin just repeats narratives without any knowledge basis to fuel it (like the casters he regularly flames)
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Why complain about NA 1st seed not being as strong as Asian 1st seeds, like, come on!? That's how international competitions happen in every sport; that's how things are! Can give you an example in the basketball World Cup - team Latvia was ranked behind Philippines, Brazil, and so on, but yet they smoked Brazil and everybody else. And there are so many other European teams that don't even get to go to the World Cup, but they are better than Asians/Africans/South Americans that got to go because they are in tougher competition in Europe! That's how things are - that's what makes things more hype. Stop with this dumb idea of Asians only; like holy heck, it gets annoying! Asians love it themselves - they never complain about this; it's just for some reason EU/NA who like to complain!
Because its terrible. WHY would a No.1 team from NA be ranked above T1 - A top 3 team in the world? Its absolute nonsense to believe that its a great ranking for them.
Uhm Noah wasn’t referring to viper…. He said ruler …. I mean I understand thorins point but just like how he dislike us misquoting or not doing research he clearly didn’t pay attention in the interview
Chovy is by far the best midlaner , not even close , putting knight on the same tier as chovy is crazy , chovy is a robot , Bdd is better than knight let alone chovy or faker.
LATAM is lost, so you can pick some singular diamonds easily. But combining Brazilian hype with American money and infrastucture would be probably huge.
The problem is that Brazilian fans are rightfully worried that Riot will simply make it so the combined Americas region excludes all but 1 or 2 of the Cblol teams and is set in NA, run by NA, and the decisions are made with NA in mind, so the cblol gets ripped apart only to prop up LCS. But Monte outlook is one that supports the European Super League concept, and Monte and Thorin both dislike Brazilian fans from prior experience; so they're willing to summarize the Brazilian concerns as "lul Brazil dogs are dumb, you suck."
I am so confused on the theory crafting on BLG vs T1. Xun gave Oner a solid loss at MSI last year, fair. But got GAPPED at World's by him, Zeus outperformed Bin and it really isn't even a debate. Faker already negated Knight on the JDG super team. Guma was the best ADC at World's, always ramps up in international tourneys, and simply carried harder than Elk did when they had the games on them. Keria gapped On as well. Here's the thing I do get: BLG is in insane form and T1 is still ramping up. THAT'S why T1 should be underdogs. Period. Monte is right about BLG "stealing" strats from T1. Everyone that isn't Gen G. have been for 2 years now. Given the history, T1 cannot be counted out in any way, shape or form, but BLG should still be the favorites based on form. HOWEVER, if there's one thing to take away from T1 in past years: they took Gen G., their greatest and only Kryptonite, to 5 convincing games in a banger Finals. If they are doing that against a team slotted to counter T1, LPL in general, like Worlds, needs to be careful. If Zeus shows up, which it's not a finals, so he does 90% of the time, top goes to him. Oner and Xun, if both are in form, should be a great match-up imo. Faker and Knight will always be a treat, I'm here to enjoy S-tier mid laners at work. Bot lane should be a banger throughout the series; 2 of the best, if not the 2 best, bot lanes in the world going at it. I'm excited!
T1 fans are so stupid they dont even know the strengths of their own team. In laning Guma and Keria will get completely stomped because BLG have set 3v2 plays bot that teams don't have an answer to. Faker is NOT an S tier midlaner anymore. Stop disrespecting his legacy by implying that he is. Worlds performance has ZERO bearing on the current tournament because Oner and Zeus's trajectories have been downhill for a while now. T1's major advantage is their baron setup and late game macro and any possible creative lane swap scenarios that they can prepare to mitigate the insane bot gap that will occur in the first 14 minutes of the game.
Giving huge weight to their worlds series is disingenuous. Current form and meta aside first off it was bo3. Second the first game was a level 1 disaster insta loss so hard to determine strength of teams. The second game was both pretty close and bin totally outplayed Zeus that game on jax what is this revisionism? Like you can support the team without glazing
@@Cashmoneez It's not disingenuous at all? Game 1 was BLG making a call, it failed, they paid for it. Zeus gapped Bin with Bin PICKING Renekton and giving Gnar over. Also, the game 1 shenanigans didn't effect top lane in their isolation, which they were anyway, so your Game 1 point, in and of itself, is "disengenuous". Game 2, Zeus inted twice in laning, yes. But in no way, shape or form did Bin outplay him? Zeus nullified Bin the rest of the game, even surviving a Vi-Jax 2 vs 1, where both ulted, Vi lost flash and Zeus was over half health while behind. And remind me: Bin left lane with 2 kills and ended the game with how many? That's what I thought. Anywhere Bin went, Zeus went and shut him down. My mans continued to be absolutely useless in the game. Ergo Zeus GAPPED him. If you annihilate someone Game 1, mess up Game 2 and are still more useful to your team than your lane opponent: You gapped them. It's very simple. Especially since Bin was supposed to be this insane top laner, losing the 1 vs 1 he asked for and then being negated by 1 champ who was behind. Glazing. Please. I actually watch what happens and how it affects the game. Whether I have bias or not in my answers doesn't matter, cause the facts are there and your feelings on a 12 minute performance by a laner doesn't change that.
Honestly, I'm not shedding a tear for most of the casters. I'm so glad that I got to experience Montes and DoAs casting back in the OGN days. Fun, great insight, back and forth, not afraid to call things out and just unapologetically fill when the game is boring. Watching MSI the casters are really just background noise for the most part. They hardly even explain (if ever) what the teams are attempting with lane swaps. No wonder people don't like the strat if not even professional commentators explain what the point is in any given game.
Just gonna say this. If the nba hall of fame didn't exist up until Michael Jordan is playing the nba will also select him as the very first inductee no question. Like it doesn't make sense if he is not the first one it just happened that it was already in placed and the rules are already there too. Or they will give an exception to him like what Riot did to Faker on this one. Also I like the idea of them choosing from the 4 major regions first for the next 4 winners then we will go from there. Like Faker, Uzi, Bjersen then xPeke or Perkz just for the major regions to have a representation.
Absolutely fucking fire episode. All of thooorins little quips are hitting. Monte is crushing the hosting and pacing of topics. I'm 1.1 hours in and I think this is m favourite summoning insight ever. Thanks for the entertainment gents. I'm on a solo trip in the phillipines so listening to this is very grounding for me after long says in my own head (which I'm loving). Also shout out to Caedrels editor. I would not be up to date with MSI I it wasn't for that Gremlin. I'm sorry Dom, wish I could support your channel too but it is definitely an editor diff, and it has been for a while. BUssyio and Bwipwo were so disappointing 😢
I didn't watch any NA this year. It was just too boring. I looked at Fly and TL lineup for MSI and was a massive hypocrite for once because I knew there was no fucking shot they do anything (I try not to discredit teams I've never seen play). Bro Busio? And TL have Apa?? And Yeon?? If they do anything its a Christmas miracle. And ong if TL don't win a single game, not even the series, NA should just sell a Worlds spot to another region. Idk it's painful going from the old TSM, C9, CLG days of competition to this.
Gotta love Thorin’s undying love for BLG this year and JDG last year. They might still win the whole tourney but getting taken to 5 games by PSG is a REALLY bad look
what i would like to see at the potential rift rivals, the 3rd international tournament between winter and spring is not just EU vs NA but include the surrounding minor regions too. have CBL and LLA join too with one team, perhaps the EMEA Masters winner too. The guys at ERL Leagues are fantastic and Riot treats them like a big afterthought and yet many teams still get big numbers because they want to make this thing succeed, the finals had like 100k German viewers (i know a french/spanish team wouldve had even more viewers but for the german fanbase, its a huge number), it would be cool for them to have an endgame higher than EMEA Masters because riot treats that tournament so badly. how is it possible that the qualifier to a world cup is more exciting than the world cup itself? it should be impossible to fuck up. As for the flyquest performance, if any NA fan thinks it is ok to lose vs PSG, a reminder than BDS, EU 4th seed won vs PSG last worlds play ins. and yes it was a close series and bds struggled a lot but were talking about a 4th seed and they won. Surely NA 2nd seed would win more easily
Busio's first pick in his lcs career was Azir support wasn't it? The guy clearly has a high opinion of what he's capable of, and in the 3 splits that we've seen him play, I truly do not believe he has EVER looked good... Idk why anyone thought putting a rookie adc with a rookie support was a good idea. I don't think TL is some amazing super team, but imo much better to put someone like Core with a newer adc.
Saying TL has a better chance against BLG than TES is such a LS Jin air is beating g2 take. How many years of hyping up g2 do we have to have go through caps hasn’t been that guy for years. G2 has nothing in the tank
Parlaying 3 3-0's only gives +156 odds... and then adding the T1 3-0 would make it +439. But thats the closest series, there's no value on the game lines. Gotta look at props like kills, tower and dragon handicaps.
TL may have good macro, but good macro is hard to pull off when your individual skill level is not about even. I'm still rooting for them to perform at the very least.
Just with regards to the faker skin thing, how many people that actually watch/play league actually saw faker play when we was really really good? Its been a LONG time at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of fans knew his GOAT days purely by reputation. Maybe the playerbase stagnation in north america is biasing it a lot for the money people making decisions, but there are still huge numbers of new players coming into other regions that just never saw the fakeriest of faker.
I'm relatively new, and tbh faker just looks good, but I'll never understand why hes the goat because i cant watch old matches and think it was impressive since season 4 games are kinda worse than random diamond mechanics not like ima say hes not the goat since i have 0 room to talk, but i dont understand how nobody even lets another player in the conversation for who is thr goat
i love it when monte gives some deep analytical point about macro and shadow boxing teams strengths and weakness against each other and thorin just comes in with the " yeh but they got clapped 3-0 by this team ( who are not at the event ) and the team i like hasn't even lost yet". Leave the analysis to the analyst you get on with your desk work.
@@heypaul2026 i mean it wasnt satire , he was making a completely serious point in the middle of a discussion about shadowboxing potential match ups , ive watched enough of thorin to know when he is being satire and in this context im 99% sure he wasnt. He thought it was a legit analytical point.
That Jensen had better performances internationally than Caps is a fucking reach in it self, even against asian teams. Does thorin look even beyond the stat line? Even if jensen has better stats, I doubt that, since caps had some massive quadra kills against T1 and so on, the massive pressure and space he is creating is unseen. Literally every single Asian team goes in against g2, just shut down caps and is most likely going to be an easy win.
Yeah because Thorin of all people is well known for just being a stat watcher. 🙄 Why do you fanboy frauds even watch this content? Oh yeah, just to make disingenuous arguments in the comments.
Last year's rumble stage then straight to double elims is much much better. We get to see all teams vs each othet while also eliminating the weaker ones before we go to souble elims
The best we can hope for is G2 having a decently strong showing, taking games off T1 would be already a good start, making it into Top 4 would be insane, Top 3 ludicrous and Finals would be a dream come true, and winning would be a nightmare, because something would have had to go very right or very wrong and boy do i not want to be a team in the LEC in summer That being said, im looking forward to them going 1-3 against T1 and then getting eliminated by TL
Taiwanese teams do not generally do better than NA teams internationally lol, that's just objectively wrong. MSI has been very close between the two regions but NA has done better at nearly every worlds.
I think it would be dope to do lec vs china and na vs Korea. The winner then plays the winner of the region for the final. Thing is the top 4 do battle rather than 4 for the region.
The only problem with the Busio issue is that its not like any support players are that much better. I agree that he hasn't shown much but seriously if they did change him who the fuck replaces him? The only way to salvage that is Inspired green card and import support into get hated more by LCS fans.
FlyQuest Academy literally has Chime who has been a support his whole career and has looked good on shittier teams than this (TSM and GGS previously). And they just won in Academy. He is LCS caliber.
Ruler didn't play like trash, he just has a worse team than last year (I know, shocking, arguably the best team ever assembled that costed 18 million dollars team can't be held together and has to downgrade. What a surprise!), BLG took Knight and was a much better team and they had a close series vs TES
idk what you call losing the finals to the same team 3 times in a row other than choking, that is if you actually believe T1 was better than GenG all 3 times (they weren't).
@MrDespisedIcon Sorry to disappoint, but LCK titles are not like LCS titles. They actually matter in of themselves. I know this is difficult to comprehend coming from regions where they only matter as tickets to internationals. Watch player interviews after the finals between regions and compare.
@@justin9744 did you bother to look it up before making your comment? It seems likely you don't know what it means either. edit: it doesn't mean "to fix", it just means to collect information. A jungler specifically doesn't have to do anything to triage the situation.
the problem with the faker hall of legends thing is this: he is already getting a skin..right about NOW..for the first time in 8 years..because he WON worlds... giving him 2 skins in the same year after fans waited for a modern (actually playable) faker skin for so long is ludicrous - makes NO sense from a T1 team standpoint either?! they forced faker to change his skin request and will probably push back the T1 skin release just so riot can get this hall of legends thing out...just do it next year if you have to man
I have a feeling Riot was already planning the Hall of Legends skin for Faker before last year's Worlds (because as you said, Faker fans have been waiting for a new Faker skin for years). Riot probably didn't even expect T1 to win Worlds. But T1 won so now they're faced with this quandary of releasing 2 Faker skins in a year.
@@jagonz70580 Or they can just delay the Hall of Legends skin another year? They have delayed a client fix for about 10 years so delaying 1 skin wouldn't be much.
Another series, another time where Jensen is invisible, you would think he is Casper the ghost. But this is the guy that is better than Bjergsen in Thoorins' book, lol
@@scdocarlos1633 Bjerg was literally invisible at every international tournament. He won one International - In which none of the best teams from those regions actually came.
@@PeoplePleaser578KOO tigers was literally at that tournament. Shame we can't compare the pool vs Jensen's tournament win... since he doesn't have one 😂
@@scdocarlos1633 GE Tigers before they were even part of LCK (It was prior to 2015 LCK)... Oh yeah and TSM didnt even play them xD. TSM beat WE and CJ Entus - WE were mid table in LPL and CJ Entus were literally the bottom ranked team in LCK. No the difference is Jensen came about after all those random tournaments stopped happening... so the only chances he had to actually win were Worlds and MSI. He didnt get to play in tournaments where random challenger teams could get invited to. Laughably Bjerg only won one of them... and even got eliminated in one of them by random EU challengers team (UOL - Who only got there on popularity). Jensen literally only had worlds and Jensens record at worlds and MSI is better than Bjergs despite playing for significantly less time comparatively - Worlds Semi Finals and Quarters multiple times. MSI finals. Whereas Bjergsen literally only made it out of groups once.... at both MSI and Worlds combined. His literal only claim to fame internationally was that he won a nothing tournament where he beat mid tier LPL teams and the last place Korean team.
These guy really miss TSM so they started to pick on FNC. It's crazy to me they still think people want to see you shit talk a team. Brah that shit ended 7 years ago.
Sad that they'll give faker Ahri instead of someone like chovy/knight who are better at Ahri. My issue is that they'll deny chovy Ahri (if he wants it) because there's already an Ahri skin.
@@CarlosCarlangas His skin is based on his entire career not just the last couple of years ??? Also ironic cause faker ahri acc won them the game 5 vs g2
@@akindumarasinghe131 t1 and blg haven't played a game after worlds and t1 got worlds23 title, so we can say t1 is more super team than blg. Am I right?
@@PeoplePleaser578i think you can consider blg a superteam rn considering that they mopped the floor in lpl which regarded as the most competitive team in the world.
After watching FlyQuest at MSI, I can confidently say that they would be coached better by a 14-year-old German boy.
No you wouldn’t, we may clown on these guys on stage but there is a reason why they’re there and not us.
@@peternguyen1858it’s like the people who blindly defend the teams when they’re bad don’t have all the information. There’s a reason NA viewership is down. People realized the better play is in Asia.
@dsjsi my bad I didn’t get the context.
@@grandarchon6969 ??? How is this even relevant to what I said, NA gets shit on a lot and deservedly many times, but like I can’t want my region to do well and say that most of the people who clown on the players are not even on the same skill level, they’re spectators who look at numbers and not at performance.
@@peternguyen1858I know you mean to say that they are "here" because of some higher level of discipline, skill, etc. required. And you are right, but the output of these players leads to the conclusion that:
a) the talent pool is awful if these are the best players
Or
b) the extra level of discipline and skill required is not that substantial, so almost "anyone" could be in their place which means the number of eligible players is small.
So I know you want to, but I really don't see how the region can do well and if you want criticism to be suppressed then you are actually blindly defending them.
Monte’s like… “ Hey don’t forget to insult Team Liquid “
Thoorin…. “ Oh yeah, they suck “
We had the dom vs thorin on who is the na goat (doublelift vs Bjergsen)
Can we get a part 2 of who is the jungle goat ? Blaber vs xmithie!
Would be hype to watch
I second this
I think it's starting to become a 3 way discussion, potentially even 4, with Impact and Jensen, but particularly Impact.
It's Contractz
Not a single person thinks it’s blabber lmao
Thorin's point about Drakos was right on the dot.
thought it was a weird hill die on frankly. an average fan is not gonna see what he sees and just enjoys the cast. monte said it right, we should be happy to have decent casters at all because its only a matter of time until we no longer do due to the success of co-streams and all we have left is a screeching rat stream
I will gladly give up the first round of the main stage to have better matches later on! although the format isn't perfect I like seeing more inter-regional competition!
Thorin lives on narratives. Absolute zero game knowledge. Hate merchant.
I actually liked thorins take on the Massu vs Busio issue, it's like yeah let's give Busio a chance but how about we actually give Massu the chance he fucking deserves
Its so crazy how few international competitions league has had to this point. Dota had 23 international tournaments in a year worth points and shockingly there has been so much more region competitive balance.
Could u guys stop repeating everything they're saying? 😂
@SillanJunior ppl have been noting the lack of international tournaments for league for 10+ years now. It's a common sentiment by now.
The argument of Caedrel going big because he was the star of the "lec show" does not hold up.
He did not participate to any of the skits which were successful, like "rekkles with my heart". Drakos and Vedi were behind them, and pretending that their "starpower overshadows the player" is frankly ridiculous.
Here to see if Thorin or Monte actually get on Bwipo and Inspired for inting the entire series away.
EDIT: Thorin actually criticized Bwipo, holy shit. And now Inspired! Holy hell, I was not expecting that at all...
Thorin's Noah rant was 👩🍳👩🍳💋
Doctor doctor lips?
thorin was battling shadows with that rant xd Noah said that that he wanted to avenge Ruler by beating TOP, Thorin phrases it as if Noah's boasting about the fact he is at MSI while Ruler is not, and on top of it he's talking about Viper and not Ruler for some reason xd
how is Thorin thinks that Noah was meaning to brag about him being in msi and Ruler is not???? he acts like he wants to find an excuse to hate on him
@@TheGouchin exactly! xdddd
by the way, when are we going to get the next episode of banter give and go? really like the basketball talk, and i think there are quite a lot of discussions to be had at the moment.
Thorin BLG glaze is unreal
He's just a big LCK hater
@@baygeebob7536 ？？？r u serious?
@@baygeebob7536true. He only lived there for years, loved it and said it's one of the best countries(if not the best), always praising LCK players like Chovy, old Starcraft players and the competitivo scene, etc. He must really hate LCK and South Korea in general.
He knows nothing. He overrates Knight so much its insane. Dude cant even play AZIR. Classic Thorin though, his favourite players: Froggen, Larssen, Flame and Knight. All overrated af and never was the best at their roles.
@@agronnakwhat a great way to spin it, completely ignore the fact he’s been LPL biased for years in every single tournament, even admitting it’s his favorite league to watch, but ya, he lived in Korea!!!
FLY mentally only plays through top so Bwipo inting is a big problem. Unfortunately from their public statements, Inspired and Bwipo think the other three players don't understand the game at a pro caliber level so FLY is probably screwed even in domestic next split if other teams just focus on slamming Bwipo
Im sorry but the narrative that Caedrel is on his way "to become one of the biggest streamers" is insane. The big majority of his viewers are league esports fans bc that's where he built his brand, his variety/soloq streams are nowhere near the size of this costreams, "graduating from league" would be the worst thing he can do
Thorin mindblown that Monte not only said something good about TL, but also that one small thing they have against an LPL team
Because Monte actually watches and knows the game, and Thorin just repeats narratives without any knowledge basis to fuel it (like the casters he regularly flames)
TL about to get their back blown...rofl
how did that work out lil bro?
@@Firestorm6651 oh yeah you're a real pro. you watch and know the game. did you also know how hard tl was gonna get assfucked?
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Why complain about NA 1st seed not being as strong as Asian 1st seeds, like, come on!?
That's how international competitions happen in every sport; that's how things are! Can give you an example in the basketball World Cup - team Latvia was ranked behind Philippines, Brazil, and so on, but yet they smoked Brazil and everybody else. And there are so many other European teams that don't even get to go to the World Cup, but they are better than Asians/Africans/South Americans that got to go because they are in tougher competition in Europe! That's how things are - that's what makes things more hype. Stop with this dumb idea of Asians only; like holy heck, it gets annoying! Asians love it themselves - they never complain about this; it's just for some reason EU/NA who like to complain!
Because its terrible. WHY would a No.1 team from NA be ranked above T1 - A top 3 team in the world? Its absolute nonsense to believe that its a great ranking for them.
Uhm Noah wasn’t referring to viper…. He said ruler …. I mean I understand thorins point but just like how he dislike us misquoting or not doing research he clearly didn’t pay attention in the interview
around 50 minute - there are like 9 orgs that have relevant teams in dota2, some only good their own region (blacklist filipines)
Chovy is by far the best midlaner , not even close , putting knight on the same tier as chovy is crazy , chovy is a robot , Bdd is better than knight let alone chovy or faker.
Monte’s ad read transitions have leveled up
Chovy is much better than knight , knight got blasted by faker and bdd in worlds.
has Thorin succesfully converted Monte to christianity or why isn't he in hell anymore?
LATAM is lost, so you can pick some singular diamonds easily. But combining Brazilian hype with American money and infrastucture would be probably huge.
The problem is that Brazilian fans are rightfully worried that Riot will simply make it so the combined Americas region excludes all but 1 or 2 of the Cblol teams and is set in NA, run by NA, and the decisions are made with NA in mind, so the cblol gets ripped apart only to prop up LCS.
But Monte outlook is one that supports the European Super League concept, and Monte and Thorin both dislike Brazilian fans from prior experience; so they're willing to summarize the Brazilian concerns as "lul Brazil dogs are dumb, you suck."
Based on the comments fans are finally finding out the truth 😂
I am so confused on the theory crafting on BLG vs T1. Xun gave Oner a solid loss at MSI last year, fair. But got GAPPED at World's by him, Zeus outperformed Bin and it really isn't even a debate. Faker already negated Knight on the JDG super team. Guma was the best ADC at World's, always ramps up in international tourneys, and simply carried harder than Elk did when they had the games on them. Keria gapped On as well. Here's the thing I do get: BLG is in insane form and T1 is still ramping up. THAT'S why T1 should be underdogs. Period. Monte is right about BLG "stealing" strats from T1. Everyone that isn't Gen G. have been for 2 years now. Given the history, T1 cannot be counted out in any way, shape or form, but BLG should still be the favorites based on form. HOWEVER, if there's one thing to take away from T1 in past years: they took Gen G., their greatest and only Kryptonite, to 5 convincing games in a banger Finals. If they are doing that against a team slotted to counter T1, LPL in general, like Worlds, needs to be careful. If Zeus shows up, which it's not a finals, so he does 90% of the time, top goes to him. Oner and Xun, if both are in form, should be a great match-up imo. Faker and Knight will always be a treat, I'm here to enjoy S-tier mid laners at work. Bot lane should be a banger throughout the series; 2 of the best, if not the 2 best, bot lanes in the world going at it. I'm excited!
T1 fans are so stupid they dont even know the strengths of their own team. In laning Guma and Keria will get completely stomped because BLG have set 3v2 plays bot that teams don't have an answer to. Faker is NOT an S tier midlaner anymore. Stop disrespecting his legacy by implying that he is. Worlds performance has ZERO bearing on the current tournament because Oner and Zeus's trajectories have been downhill for a while now. T1's major advantage is their baron setup and late game macro and any possible creative lane swap scenarios that they can prepare to mitigate the insane bot gap that will occur in the first 14 minutes of the game.
Giving huge weight to their worlds series is disingenuous. Current form and meta aside first off it was bo3. Second the first game was a level 1 disaster insta loss so hard to determine strength of teams. The second game was both pretty close and bin totally outplayed Zeus that game on jax what is this revisionism? Like you can support the team without glazing
@Cashmoneez no he cannot
@@Cashmoneez It's not disingenuous at all? Game 1 was BLG making a call, it failed, they paid for it. Zeus gapped Bin with Bin PICKING Renekton and giving Gnar over. Also, the game 1 shenanigans didn't effect top lane in their isolation, which they were anyway, so your Game 1 point, in and of itself, is "disengenuous". Game 2, Zeus inted twice in laning, yes. But in no way, shape or form did Bin outplay him? Zeus nullified Bin the rest of the game, even surviving a Vi-Jax 2 vs 1, where both ulted, Vi lost flash and Zeus was over half health while behind. And remind me: Bin left lane with 2 kills and ended the game with how many? That's what I thought. Anywhere Bin went, Zeus went and shut him down. My mans continued to be absolutely useless in the game. Ergo Zeus GAPPED him. If you annihilate someone Game 1, mess up Game 2 and are still more useful to your team than your lane opponent: You gapped them. It's very simple. Especially since Bin was supposed to be this insane top laner, losing the 1 vs 1 he asked for and then being negated by 1 champ who was behind. Glazing. Please. I actually watch what happens and how it affects the game. Whether I have bias or not in my answers doesn't matter, cause the facts are there and your feelings on a 12 minute performance by a laner doesn't change that.
@@Cashmoneez game2 if on not int,blg will win,....and if blg win wbg go to final,i think ,champion may not t1
Clark Angela Thompson Maria White Michael
Yeah you have to be selective thorin
Great content and such a salty comment section this time
32:14 - 33:11 "It is true, though"
Honestly, I'm not shedding a tear for most of the casters.
I'm so glad that I got to experience Montes and DoAs casting back in the OGN days. Fun, great insight, back and forth, not afraid to call things out and just unapologetically fill when the game is boring. Watching MSI the casters are really just background noise for the most part. They hardly even explain (if ever) what the teams are attempting with lane swaps. No wonder people don't like the strat if not even professional commentators explain what the point is in any given game.
Just gonna say this. If the nba hall of fame didn't exist up until Michael Jordan is playing the nba will also select him as the very first inductee no question. Like it doesn't make sense if he is not the first one it just happened that it was already in placed and the rules are already there too. Or they will give an exception to him like what Riot did to Faker on this one. Also I like the idea of them choosing from the 4 major regions first for the next 4 winners then we will go from there. Like Faker, Uzi, Bjersen then xPeke or Perkz just for the major regions to have a representation.
Absolutely fucking fire episode. All of thooorins little quips are hitting. Monte is crushing the hosting and pacing of topics. I'm 1.1 hours in and I think this is m favourite summoning insight ever. Thanks for the entertainment gents. I'm on a solo trip in the phillipines so listening to this is very grounding for me after long says in my own head (which I'm loving).
Also shout out to Caedrels editor. I would not be up to date with MSI I it wasn't for that Gremlin. I'm sorry Dom, wish I could support your channel too but it is definitely an editor diff, and it has been for a while.
BUssyio and Bwipwo were so disappointing 😢
I didn't watch any NA this year. It was just too boring. I looked at Fly and TL lineup for MSI and was a massive hypocrite for once because I knew there was no fucking shot they do anything (I try not to discredit teams I've never seen play). Bro Busio? And TL have Apa?? And Yeon?? If they do anything its a Christmas miracle. And ong if TL don't win a single game, not even the series, NA should just sell a Worlds spot to another region. Idk it's painful going from the old TSM, C9, CLG days of competition to this.
Gotta love Thorin’s undying love for BLG this year and JDG last year. They might still win the whole tourney but getting taken to 5 games by PSG is a REALLY bad look
what i would like to see at the potential rift rivals, the 3rd international tournament between winter and spring is not just EU vs NA but include the surrounding minor regions too. have CBL and LLA join too with one team, perhaps the EMEA Masters winner too. The guys at ERL Leagues are fantastic and Riot treats them like a big afterthought and yet many teams still get big numbers because they want to make this thing succeed, the finals had like 100k German viewers (i know a french/spanish team wouldve had even more viewers but for the german fanbase, its a huge number), it would be cool for them to have an endgame higher than EMEA Masters because riot treats that tournament so badly. how is it possible that the qualifier to a world cup is more exciting than the world cup itself? it should be impossible to fuck up.
As for the flyquest performance, if any NA fan thinks it is ok to lose vs PSG, a reminder than BDS, EU 4th seed won vs PSG last worlds play ins. and yes it was a close series and bds struggled a lot but were talking about a 4th seed and they won. Surely NA 2nd seed would win more easily
Busio's first pick in his lcs career was Azir support wasn't it? The guy clearly has a high opinion of what he's capable of, and in the 3 splits that we've seen him play, I truly do not believe he has EVER looked good... Idk why anyone thought putting a rookie adc with a rookie support was a good idea. I don't think TL is some amazing super team, but imo much better to put someone like Core with a newer adc.
Saying TL has a better chance against BLG than TES is such a LS Jin air is beating g2 take. How many years of hyping up g2 do we have to have go through caps hasn’t been that guy for years. G2 has nothing in the tank
I knew the Thorin cope about Jensen was coming, and boy did it deliver.
What did he say that was inaccurate?
@@grandarchon6969 the caps part
Parlaying 3 3-0's only gives +156 odds... and then adding the T1 3-0 would make it +439.
But thats the closest series, there's no value on the game lines.
Gotta look at props like kills, tower and dragon handicaps.
2:14:26 "The Dildo of Damocles" goddamn that's a mental way of conveying your point XD
I thought it was gangster that Tian replied to APA typing "shut up"
Never thought he was that kind of guy 😎
TL may have good macro, but good macro is hard to pull off when your individual skill level is not about even. I'm still rooting for them to perform at the very least.
Just with regards to the faker skin thing, how many people that actually watch/play league actually saw faker play when we was really really good? Its been a LONG time at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if the majority of fans knew his GOAT days purely by reputation.
Maybe the playerbase stagnation in north america is biasing it a lot for the money people making decisions, but there are still huge numbers of new players coming into other regions that just never saw the fakeriest of faker.
I'm relatively new, and tbh faker just looks good, but I'll never understand why hes the goat because i cant watch old matches and think it was impressive since season 4 games are kinda worse than random diamond mechanics
not like ima say hes not the goat since i have 0 room to talk, but i dont understand how nobody even lets another player in the conversation for who is thr goat
Isn't fly quest trying to emulate ghost era dk? But with worst players than what Geng has
XD
Very very budget team flyquest is
in Tl we trust.
Idk I think t1 is gonna roll msi
we will see tomorrow ... I hope they will do it
i love it when monte gives some deep analytical point about macro and shadow boxing teams strengths and weakness against each other and thorin just comes in with the " yeh but they got clapped 3-0 by this team ( who are not at the event ) and the team i like hasn't even lost yet". Leave the analysis to the analyst you get on with your desk work.
Tells the analyst to analyze, but gets mad at satirist for satire 🤔
@@heypaul2026 i mean it wasnt satire , he was making a completely serious point in the middle of a discussion about shadowboxing potential match ups , ive watched enough of thorin to know when he is being satire and in this context im 99% sure he wasnt. He thought it was a legit analytical point.
Blg got boort clapped by ig lol thorin blg fanboy
That Jensen had better performances internationally than Caps is a fucking reach in it self, even against asian teams.
Does thorin look even beyond the stat line? Even if jensen has better stats, I doubt that, since caps had some massive quadra kills against T1 and so on, the massive pressure and space he is creating is unseen. Literally every single Asian team goes in against g2, just shut down caps and is most likely going to be an easy win.
BDS would have beaten G2 without Caps lol... Caps singlehandedly won that series for them.
Yeah because Thorin of all people is well known for just being a stat watcher. 🙄
Why do you fanboy frauds even watch this content? Oh yeah, just to make disingenuous arguments in the comments.
Yo whats wrong with Bengi in Hall of legend? Damn the hate
The reason flyquest lost to t1. They need the extra two hours to practice the match up. He could found out not to trade lv 3.
I really wanne watch PSG vs TL
Great episode!
Bucio and Bwipo need to go.
Banger episode!
Hard disagree that UFC isn’t a sport.
Its not. MMA is a sport.
Last year's rumble stage then straight to double elims is much much better. We get to see all teams vs each othet while also eliminating the weaker ones before we go to souble elims
👍
First
What happened to jenseen?
like he was told to play safe?
Thank you thank you thank you for saying the beatles are so over rated i 100 percent agree and that the beach boys were so much better!
The best we can hope for is G2 having a decently strong showing, taking games off T1 would be already a good start, making it into Top 4 would be insane, Top 3 ludicrous and Finals would be a dream come true, and winning would be a nightmare, because something would have had to go very right or very wrong and boy do i not want to be a team in the LEC in summer
That being said, im looking forward to them going 1-3 against T1 and then getting eliminated by TL
Taiwanese teams do not generally do better than NA teams internationally lol, that's just objectively wrong. MSI has been very close between the two regions but NA has done better at nearly every worlds.
These two just whine and whine and whine. I came to check this out but holy crap imagine trying to make a living about complaining a game. Pretty sad
You sweet summer child. What’s it like enjoying having shit shoveled into your mouth by Saudi Arabia and Riot?
What do you mean imagine? They make more money than you. Much more.
I think it would be dope to do lec vs china and na vs Korea. The winner then plays the winner of the region for the final. Thing is the top 4 do battle rather than 4 for the region.
The only problem with the Busio issue is that its not like any support players are that much better. I agree that he hasn't shown much but seriously if they did change him who the fuck replaces him? The only way to salvage that is Inspired green card and import support into get hated more by LCS fans.
FlyQuest Academy literally has Chime who has been a support his whole career and has looked good on shittier teams than this (TSM and GGS previously). And they just won in Academy. He is LCS caliber.
@@DoctorDucky250I don’t know if chime is LCS ready but he is an upgrade to Busio.
Wtf is Thorin talking about?
Noah was talking about Ruler in that interview, not Viper. And Ruler played like trash this year
Are you joking? Did you watch ruler?
Ruler didn't play like trash, he just has a worse team than last year (I know, shocking, arguably the best team ever assembled that costed 18 million dollars team can't be held together and has to downgrade. What a surprise!), BLG took Knight and was a much better team and they had a close series vs TES
Tell me you didn’t actually watch lpl this year without telling me.
Ruler did not play like trash this year, his team was just worse than last year.
Ruler has definitely dropped in form. Dude lost loads of lanes he had no business losing, and also has made many sus flashes etc. he is playing bad
Dude said LeBronze... Funny how Faker isnt the one forming Superteams and choking. These TSM "AFK Mid" Choke'vy stans I tell ya...
You’re mentally ill. Get help and stop commenting the exact words on every lol-related yt video.
idk what you call losing the finals to the same team 3 times in a row other than choking, that is if you actually believe T1 was better than GenG all 3 times (they weren't).
@@Zolti14 the difference here is that faker has won way more finals than he's lost...
@@andreasmastorakis9184What does that have to do with choking?
@MrDespisedIcon Sorry to disappoint, but LCK titles are not like LCS titles. They actually matter in of themselves. I know this is difficult to comprehend coming from regions where they only matter as tickets to internationals. Watch player interviews after the finals between regions and compare.
25:42 they literally inted the last series. Riot needs to investigate for match fixing. This is criminal
Oh shut up
Nooo dare u going after Drakos
monte, I don't think you know what the word triage means.
I think he does and he’s vastly ahead of you in terms of intelligence.
@@justin9744 I agree
@@justin9744 did you bother to look it up before making your comment? It seems likely you don't know what it means either.
edit: it doesn't mean "to fix", it just means to collect information. A jungler specifically doesn't have to do anything to triage the situation.
the problem with the faker hall of legends thing is this: he is already getting a skin..right about NOW..for the first time in 8 years..because he WON worlds... giving him 2 skins in the same year after fans waited for a modern (actually playable) faker skin for so long is ludicrous - makes NO sense from a T1 team standpoint either?!
they forced faker to change his skin request and will probably push back the T1 skin release just so riot can get this hall of legends thing out...just do it next year if you have to man
I have a feeling Riot was already planning the Hall of Legends skin for Faker before last year's Worlds (because as you said, Faker fans have been waiting for a new Faker skin for years). Riot probably didn't even expect T1 to win Worlds. But T1 won so now they're faced with this quandary of releasing 2 Faker skins in a year.
@@jagonz70580 Or they can just delay the Hall of Legends skin another year? They have delayed a client fix for about 10 years so delaying 1 skin wouldn't be much.
Another series, another time where Jensen is invisible, you would think he is Casper the ghost.
But this is the guy that is better than Bjergsen in Thoorins' book, lol
What has bjerg done outside of NA?
@@jakersdfs7921Win an international tournament lol 😂😂😂
@@scdocarlos1633 Bjerg was literally invisible at every international tournament. He won one International - In which none of the best teams from those regions actually came.
@@PeoplePleaser578KOO tigers was literally at that tournament. Shame we can't compare the pool vs Jensen's tournament win... since he doesn't have one 😂
@@scdocarlos1633 GE Tigers before they were even part of LCK (It was prior to 2015 LCK)... Oh yeah and TSM didnt even play them xD. TSM beat WE and CJ Entus - WE were mid table in LPL and CJ Entus were literally the bottom ranked team in LCK.
No the difference is Jensen came about after all those random tournaments stopped happening... so the only chances he had to actually win were Worlds and MSI. He didnt get to play in tournaments where random challenger teams could get invited to. Laughably Bjerg only won one of them... and even got eliminated in one of them by random EU challengers team (UOL - Who only got there on popularity).
Jensen literally only had worlds and Jensens record at worlds and MSI is better than Bjergs despite playing for significantly less time comparatively - Worlds Semi Finals and Quarters multiple times. MSI finals. Whereas Bjergsen literally only made it out of groups once.... at both MSI and Worlds combined. His literal only claim to fame internationally was that he won a nothing tournament where he beat mid tier LPL teams and the last place Korean team.
These guy really miss TSM so they started to pick on FNC. It's crazy to me they still think people want to see you shit talk a team. Brah that shit ended 7 years ago.
I enjoy them shit talking bad orgs fans blindly defend. I'm a person.
Sad that they'll give faker Ahri instead of someone like chovy/knight who are better at Ahri. My issue is that they'll deny chovy Ahri (if he wants it) because there's already an Ahri skin.
Wtf is this terrible take? Lmao
@@justin9744watch faker play Ahri the last year. Man hasn't hit a charm since 2017
@@CarlosCarlangas His skin is based on his entire career not just the last couple of years ??? Also ironic cause faker ahri acc won them the game 5 vs g2
blg is not a super team, T1 is...
How can you be this slow
@@akindumarasinghe131 t1 and blg haven't played a game after worlds and t1 got worlds23 title, so we can say t1 is more super team than blg. Am I right?
@@andresjeong1460 do you know what a super team is bro
BLG is literally a super team.
T1 is not. T1 was not formed with the express goal of winning by using known quantities...
@@PeoplePleaser578i think you can consider blg a superteam rn considering that they mopped the floor in lpl which regarded as the most competitive team in the world.