Why MSI was the best LoL tournament ever / Move aside Faker, Chovy is here - Summoning Insight S7E20
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 30 июн 2024
- MonteCristo and Thorin discuss MSI 2024, Gen.G and their potential to Golden Road this year, Faker and T1 defeating G2 despite looking shaky, the future of League of Legends, Chovy's status as a bonjwa, Jensen being benched b FlyQuest, Esports World Cup and Riot Games shenanigans, and more!
Peyz and Chovy's MSI team tier list: imgur.com/a/chovy-peyz-tier-l...
Thank you to INTOTHEAM for sponsoring this week's episode! You must use our link to receive 10% discount on anything you purchase on the website: www.intotheam.com/lfn
HELLO FRESH sponsored this episode! Head on over to www.hellofresh.com/LFNSWEET for FREE dessert for life!
EXPRESSVPN now sponsors Summoning Insight! Get THREE free months of service with our link: www.expressvpn.com/summoning
Thorin's new Substack: iamesports.substack.com/
Monte's stream for Bangers Only: / montecristo
Monte's primary RUclips: / ggmontecristo
Monte's RUclips for ALL Bangers Only VODs: / @bangersonly-ge2pf
Announcing the NEW Last Free Nation culture channel with Thorin, Richard Lewis, and Monte's film club FOUR PLAY. Subscribe on RUclips here: / @lastfreenationculture
Summoning Insight is the longest-running, most viewed League of Legends esports podcast in the world. Each week, hosts Christopher "MonteCristo" Mykles and Duncan "Thorin" Shields break down the most exciting matches from LEC, LCS, LCK, and LPL as well as interviewing professional players, coaches, casters, and journalists from around the world.
Listen to Summoning Insight on podcast platforms:
Spotify: open.spotify.com/show/1w3sDoR...
Apple: podcasts.apple.com/ph/podcast...
Google: podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0...
Pocket Casts: pca.st/4z9sg2tg
Pandora: www.pandora.com/podcast/summo...
iHeart: iheart.com/podcast/104244896/
This episode was filmed on May 20th, 2024.
Come join the Last Free Nation Discord for in-depth discussion across esports: / discord
0:00:00 - Intro
0:06:45 - T1 and Team Liquid
0:19:29 - G2
0:39:02 - Gen.G vs BLG
0:53:15 - TES
0:54:33 - More Gen.G vs BLG
1:01:18 - Golden Road
1:04:57 - Closing thoughts on MSI
1:10:11 - Future of LoL
1:14:35 - MSI meta and format
1:21:58 - Chovy
1:30:19 - Jensen out, Quad in at FlyQuest
1:39:07 - T1
1:49:36 - EWC and Riot shenanigans
2:07:56 - Discord Subscriber questions
#lolesports
#msi2024
#leagueoflegends 
Игры
![ian - Fit Check (Feat. VonOff1700) [Official Music Video]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/sDGWDBg45Dw/mqdefault.jpg)
This GenG with Viper is literally just Griffin with a better topside lmao. If Chovy and Lehends win worlds this year that would make 3/5 former Griffin players winning worlds which would be poetic
I think they would be worse with viper
@@aidigat9551ain’t no way geng is worse with viper. Do you watch any lck games, he might be best adc in the world, just team sucks
Generation Griffin 😂
@@wwjccsd super teams don't always work. You cant just "insert better player" and "get better result".
We don't know if Viper would make Gen.g better. Viper is much higher resource/economy than Peyz is. Peyz fits well because gen.g don't normally play through bot, they play top/mid. So peyz spent all lck playing hyperscale late game carries and thus was losing early games.
When Ruler was on Gen.G they played differently too.
@@SwayNoir couldn't agree more.
people just dont get it, their opinion sound so one dimentional
Won more games than we lost we take those
Do we really though?😮
Enjoy your humble pie.
@@ade1174 yum pie
Getting increasingly impressed with how Monte can bring LCS viewership up in every single piece of league content lmao
It's ridiculous how many times he's brought it up at this point. Getting a bit boring.
They deserved it imo and i am glad the salary bubble popped in LCS
and it’s hilarious every time
in this show alone he brought it up 10 times it fdeeels like :D
I feel like he brings it up because it is truly incredible how badly NA fucked themselves. They had the most viewed esports league ever, and now aren't even top 5 in League of Legends, let alone all of esports.
IPL5 was amazing. I will never forget Locodoco's GOAT performance on nunu duty!
It turns out Busan wasn't the Church of Chovy Chengu is. 😅
Complaining about Yeon after MSI is actually nuts. Him and Impact were dragging their teammates to a top 6 finish. This just feels like you cant admit you were wrong that Yeon does have potential.
I legit feel like people are just yes man's to thoorin because he's an OG in the scene, not because he's smart. Dude is only relevant because he's been here for a while and at the time he was better than the random basement dweller that didn't care at all and thought of gaming as a meme.
Montes streams seemed pretty cool headed. Put him with thoorin though and it's like he loses his braincells too
Couldn’t agree more. I’m a fan of devils advocate to have multiple takes but thorin just bitches about everything at this point lol😂
have to agree here, as a former yeon hater this guy was legit the best performing western ad which is crazy
honestly feels like that thorin doenst watch half the games anymore and just talks to talk
I think the point is how far can you really get with Yeon. By no means a Yeon hater but this is his first exceptional showing after 3 splits in NA. I think it is fair to suggest that Massau is likely going to be the better AD in the coming splits.
And suggesting Thorin is relevant because he is an OG and not because of the thousands of videos he has made is very ignorant. You don’t have to agree with his opinions but he is providing them on his platform and you are choosing to watch.
Love what you do guys. Keep it up
Once again, Thorin NAILS it! I love his take on there being no overwork just under rested and how real ones don't get burned out
When TL is expected to do nothing and does better than they expect "well but they didn't beat T1!"... you were expecting them to get blasted 3-0 yet they make a decent series and it is still not enough but also apparently G2 is just going to get better and none of the other Asian teams are going to do the same.
imo G2 will likely do worse. Lane swap meta helped them a ton and we know it's going to be gutted for worlds.
TL beat EU's 2nd seed (they are fucking expected to) and lost to T1 playing their worst games since 2020 summer. What are you all celebrating exactly? Yeon learning to play a champ that has been broken for 2 straight seasons?
@@loxi9 this is about TL getting a little respect. most people had TL losing that series against FNC. so f'ing admit you all were wrong, bunch of babies.
@@loxi9 celebrating that they had a competitive match against a team they thought was going to utterly destroy them. Having a competitive match when nobody expected them to have one is cause for celebration enough
@@loxi9 Here's a question: if it's shameful and pathetic that TL could only take 1 game off T1 (a top 3 team) when T1 is in horrific form, and G2 as the 4th best team is a significantly better team than TL (which I believe), how is it not disappointing and shameful that G2 in 8 games could only get 2 games off a T1 in terrible form (a team only one ahead of them in the standings)
The argumentation makes zero sense. Why do we pat G2 on the back and say "Good luck next time" when in context it's even more shameful they couldn't beat T1 than TL.
It reeks of regional hypocrisy and bias which is fine, except that Thorin takes the position that he's somehow an elitist who's about equal expectations and opposed to nonsensical fan narratives.
It doesn't even make sense when pre-tournament, while Monte acknowledged TL was a well-coached team, Thorin acted like they were a disgraceful clown show, and yet they put up a comparable result to 4th Best Team at MSI G2 Esports. Now that the tournament's over, he's clowning on TL for having bad players but all praise for G2. Talk about moving the goalposts.
If you're going to dedicate 10 minutes lambasting TL, then do the same to G2: a squad with better players, better teamwork, better drafts, and higher peak, yet still got beaten by a near-comatose T1, just like TL.
this show needs a consistent guest presence. "old men yell at clouds" is getting too accurate
I think it looked like Faker had some serious pain during the tournament tho and i heard about some interview he did where he was talking about having to do some mental exercises in order to deal with his hand.
This could most definately (if true) be why faker was off the entire tournament because pain can warp your mind in some cases if it is extreme, it will make it hard to concentrate for longer periods etc.
I think the meta that is coming up is very in favour of T1 , as we've seen before Zeus playing carry champs will happen regardless of it beeing tank meta or not and he isnt terrible at tanks .
All you do is permaban Ksante and problem solved for T1 cause that champion has been the bane of their existence (it single handedly lost them each and every LCK title the last 2 years)
Faker had serious pains? Great. Elk had the flu and fucking vomited on stage. Lehends was literally on IV's and couldnt scrim. Both still performed better than him. He's the fucking goat? Stop making excuses for him.
I wish that they had a minor region tournament, so that those regions could find success, where the top 2 qualify into an NA v EU tournament, so that those regions can find success, where the top 2 qualify into a Korea v China tournament that is marketed and treated as the premier tournament. All double elim. And I wish that would happen 2 or even 3 times a year alongside one regional league season. Casual fans can even keep Worlds if they wish too, but let's not make it the premier tournament when it's all-inclusive and intentionally higher variance and only has like 4 matches worth watching max, please and thank you!
ngl it's so hard for me maybe it's because im in my own bubble on the east coast in NA but people seeing this tournament as anything less than great, after all these years we FINALLY got to see double elim bracket and the best possible matches we could have seen towards the end of the tournament, yeah sure some of the play-ins were eh to watch but overall MSI this year clears
was a great msi tourney everything ive wanted for years, please lets get something like this for worlds.
Nah would rather teams have some time to actually rest and plan for draft than go b2b2b to another Bo5.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg i mean sure but thats a given at worlds its a much longer tournament, i would like the same thing jsut over a longer period of time, msi is a really short tournament. also the previous tournament structures were worse in that regard anyways. and best of 1's so planning means even less.
@@Obscure_TM Problem is MSI starts off with lack of prep time and riot already creating a whacky meta. Never forget Udyr/Morgana/Rumble becoming pick/ban. Tank mid laners in the meta. Now lane swap meta for MSI. The reality is Riot has always made MSI as a clown fiesta to spice things up.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg i mean yeh i agree with riot be clowns part, but the lane swap meta this time had nothing to do with riot they pathced that shit out years ago, and they didnt patch it back in by any means teams took ages and finally figured out a new variation that can work some games
@@Obscure_TM Nah teams were already using it in playoffs. LEC/LCK/LCS/LPL all used it during their playoffs. Riot had time to nerf it but they did not. Funny thing is they buffed numerous champs to create a new meta and failed.
Faker is literally the only player where his criticism is "how long ago did he win xyz" lmao, but i will say that was prob the worst ive ever seen him play
Not even close, 2018 Faker was WAYYYY WORSE. People forget easily because he's fucking Faker
@@MrZeddddd you mean the year they didnt have a jungler besides blossom who was complete dog water, so much so that wolf swapped to jungle only to be worse than blossom so they benched him, and the meta was a funnel meta with bang being washed, and untara asthe top laner getting bodied by every top laner in the league. Yah i dont blame faker for not doing anything that year lol
@@thecelestialknights yes. Bro even a huge Faker fan, Faker that year was part of the problem, he knew it too so much so to seek help with sports therapist
@@MrZeddddd yeah he played bad on a bad team. This MSI he played bad on a top 3 team, so my statement stands, this is the worst hes ever performed, even at his his worst in 2018, i dont think faker has been solo killed this many times in a tournament and played the laning phase this bad
@@thecelestialknights nah, they only played 26 games at MSI in the spans of 3 week, and he wasn't even that bad on most of them.
And you're going to compare it the whole of 2018 with hundreds of games played?
Either you're trolling or you're stupid 🤷♂️
IPL5 is hands down the best international event ever... my god I will never forget it. For all us OG's that were around at that time you all know Loco on his nunu xD
Ooh Monte is a Terraforming Mars enjoyer would be interesting to play with him sometime
I think we are so blessed to have Blg and geng being the top 2 teams with the knight Chovy matchup being the absolute highlight. 2 players with 2 different style. Each with their own signature picks that are must ban. Chovy being the peak of lck mids and knight being the first undisputed elite native Chinese midlander. Both top of their regions beating the second seed of the others. Neither really went ridiculous this tourney but it’s great to see the first chapter of their rivalry
Neither went ridiculous because they're champions were banned. Except with corki tho
All you got to say is TL did pretty well for an NA team. You guys said how much NA has disadvantages but can’t give credit but saying G2 was close is wild.
I mean all they did was beat the lec #2 seed...
Thorin when Knight does his annual choke at an important international match and his favorite yearly LPL team gets gapped by Chovy or an LCK team
“SEE THIS IS WHY FAKER FANS ARE THE WORST, T1 IS ALWAYS OVERRATED AND NEVER GOOD AND FAKER IS GARBAGE CAUSE HIS FANS HATE THE GAME”
Dude got exposed by chovy like 2 times. Chovy gapped knight and faker consecutively. No question hes just the best
got some into the AM shirts with the memorial day sale + LFN :)
Rocky and Bullwinkle wasn't Hannah-Barbarah fwiw, it was a Jay Ward gig
Am I wrong, or does it seem like often commentators spend too much time defending their own old opinions instead of giving credit when it is due ?
Instead of bending over backwards to convince you were right all along… you should probably just comment on reality.
Thorin is the definition of this. He will bring up old points he made to show he was right, or have arguments with ghosts in the community by saying "all those people in the community". He does it every time.
It is getting endlessly tiring about how much people seem to want to say their initial opinions are always right and not appreciating specifics happening. I think in particular I'm starting to get sick and tired of "best in the world" comments happening in every single fucking conversation. It's bad enough in smash bros, but here it's just as bad if not worse.
@@shinobuu__ The annoying thing about Thorin in LoL content is that he speaks with the same level of conviction as expert pundits like Monte/Dom/Caedrel/LS, but has actually none of the insights or knowledge, and yet doubles down on his unwarranted opinions.
He rarely ever admits that a tournament result or performance surprised him, will never alter his opinion unless one of the other pundits tells him so, and yet will constantly go on about "the eye test' despite having none of the expertise that would give any meaning to his eye test.
One of the big takeaways from this MSI that Dom and Monte talk about independently in their content is that TL and G2 massively levelled up in the MSI practice environment, demonstrating that better competition could unlock new heights for their rosters. I thought Yeon was boosted in LCS but I think he improved a ton in a short amount of time at MSI, demonstrating that there is potential, which makes him an overall good value pick.
But Thorin gives no nuance. I can tell you what Thorin's opinions will be before clicking any video: West bad, East good, LCK overrated, fans dumb, narrative narrative.
@@Firestorm6651 he talks a lot for someone who has never reached a level high enough to discuss the game. You can tell when he has to give his own opinion on the game.
One thing that really disgusted me was him saying that if Faker's wrist still functions then shut up and play through it.
Or when he goes out of his way to publicly flame pro players or directly @ them right after a loss to blame them and start shit with them like he did with Nuc or Noah.
Bro has 0 empathy or social awareness.
@@shinobuu__ is Peter Dunn allowed to have a LOL opinion?
Damn I made that 3-2 comment, I woulda swore TL had a 3-2 series. I got properly crisped
LOL
Hahahahha no way
Banger episode
The time to get a high school and college ecosystem into a system that gives NA a path to LCS was way back in season 4 when the first colleges were instituting their esports programs. Instead of working with schools in NA, Riot gave all their effort some middle fingers and showed they didn't give one shit about helping create a ecosystem here in NA.
Plus watching all the NA positions being replaced with imports didnt give us any encouragement to care anymore about this game.
I think the main issue for casuals was Laneswapes take away hype 1v1s and popoff first bloods, botlane meta is so stale/defined that there was no interesting picks, and if bot isn't eating all the bans mid lane is so you're also just seeing the same 3 mid laners. Most sets were close cause teams would swap wins on blue side back and forth.
I'm glad with 14.10 changes crit adcs will be playable along with Jung xp changes meaning new carry junglers (no knights vow rushing tank jungs). Hopefully it'll solve so of the problems that people considered "boring" this msi.
I am a chovy fan and no T1 fan boy (unfortunately KT supporter) but Thorin's peak Faker v Chovy point makes little sense as you don't need to shadow box, Faker did win an international comp that peak Chovy was involved in
I havent watched yet but I would guess it's more about the way he won that title. Chovy right now is by far the best player in the world with maybe the most refined laning ever but the game has gotten to a point where players like that can't just win by themselves anymore. I'd argue that prime Faker was way further ahead of everyone else than Chovy is today but due to how good people have gotten at the game overall Chovy right now is better than Faker was in his absolute prime. It's more about how much weight you give to the relative level of play in their respective eras. For example even tho Faker was in a whole other stratosphere compared to any other player in 2013 while Chovy is way closer to his peers one could argue that Chovy is still more impressive because of how good everyone has gotten at the game. It's like Newton vs Einstein or something.
What even is 'peak Faker'? Absolute or relative? I'd be nice to define that first...
Relatively speaking, i still think season 3 is peak Faker. The gap between him and whoever the 2nd best player was (outside of maybe UZI) was the widest it's ever been and probably ever will be...
Yet, in absolute terms, there's no way you can say season 3 Faker is better than Faker 5, 6 years later...
The game has evolved and been optimized so much since the first 5, 6 seasons it might as well be a completely different game now...
Faker was able remain a top level player for the majority of this timeline, but it was already in season 4 & 5 where other players have closed the gap significantly...
First it was PawN (when healthy) and Rookie that could basically outplay Faker in any given series... Then Chovy, BDD, Showmaker with Knight and maybe even Caps being able to hold their own...
The thing is, these guys never got to enjoy the 'wild west' era of League like season 2, 3, 4 where the strategy was still very primitive and laning, 'skill-checking' was a more important factor to achieve victory...
In that sense, it's kind of hard to compare Chovy to Faker... Chovy came into the scene when teams were a lot more refined at basically everything, drafting, punishing mistakes, macro etc... So, he was generally going up against tougher mid laners and tougher teams and couldn't skill check as much unpunished.
I mean, when people said Faker was clearly above the rest of the field it was still fking revolutionary to lane swap or send your support to roam... That's how primitive macro was...
Nowadays, any small macro mistake your team makes, you get dove or denied creeps instantly by the other team and that's it... Even Faker himself said this a couple of years ago, "if the enemy team wants to kill me, they'll kill me, if they want to target me and put me on the backfoot the entire game, there's not much i can do... just hold the line and hope my team finds advantages elsewhere."
@@THEkullerpuller I agree with all of this but that the problem with shadow boxing, too many variables. Like if fake and Chovy were the same age (faker younger) maybe faker is just that much better still because like Chovy does now, he has the benefits of the evolution of play to build on when younger too. It's a pointless exercise though. But my overall point was that we don't need to imagine whether faker would have won anything, because we have a very recent example of him doing so. It's probably a good part team based but that's just how it is
@@Cornchips392 agreed, it's pretty much impossible to say how 2013 to 2015 Faker would compare if he came up now or how Chovy would look in 2013. I think Faker is without a doubt the player with the most impact throughout his career because he learned years ago that he can't be the best midlaner anymore so he became more of a facilitating player and an incredible shotcaller and most likely coach.
He won as the worst player on his team while chovy was trying his hardest to carry his team...
When I hear 2017 I think "oh that's not so long ago." That was... 7 years. Holy crap.
So clearly Thorin did not watch the TL games.
He is shitting on Yeon here? He clutched the fuck up in both the FNC and T1 series and was hard carrying the team.
This is why his takes are worth nothing. Sounds like he only looks at the game score and double down on previous narratives.
the light's effort finally paid off..
Glad Into the AM are back on board, I got some quality T-shirts and hoodies last time, and even though a certain winged messenger of the gods stole a t-shirt in transit, the customer service were legit and got a replacement shipped ASAP.
Thank you guys for the referral link and discount, now I only look like a ragamuffin half the week 🎉
NA haterade taken full dose. Stating the finish of 6th and saying it's terrible for a major region is pretty disingenuous. They tied 5th-6th where lck and lpl 1 and 2 seeds are present and g2 is ahead of the west. This is a good result for a team that wasnt even expected to win their region.
Finally someone in these shows have the educated Caps take.
Thorin is spot on with Caps. Not only coaching staff but also players he is playing with
BB was an international grace before Caps(he still is btw with carries) Before Caps he was 10th place in LEC
Yike came as a "rookie" playing for years in ERL
Hans Sama had terrible year in NA. And he was never undisputed best ADC ever in West
People thought Targamas is insane yet he has become 10th place in every team and got flamed after leaving Caps
Caps is so far ahead of everyone else in EU he just makes everyone appear good.
He's not. Remember this G2 got crushed by Rogue and only fat Carlos checks to disband that team kept them winning
Hans Sama was undisputed best adc in west the year before he got sold to NA then got snatched by G2. Also Hans Sama was for years one of the best. Just watch Misfits vs T1 which also ended in a 3:2. So fuck off outta here, choke on CAps balls whenever you want friend but dont lie
Idk why analysts aren’t mentioning that he’s said his injury (urnal nerve entrapment) has flared up again. And he can be seen shaking his hand a lot coming through the tunnel.
in fakers worst performance and form in years. The gap between knight and chovy was still larger than the gap between faker and knight
Knight is closer to faker than he is to chovy
So he’s still the 2nd best mid, I don’t see what’s wrong with that
as long as they give you something for being in winnner bracket its ok
I don't know. Didn't Faker take time off from his injury and T1 went 1-8. I'm not sure how indicative that is of his leadership and shotcalling role but if you are going to be fair Thorin you should probably mention it. He played badly. But would T1 have done better with a better midlaner this tournament?
Not saying they wouldn't have. Just saying it deserves mention.
One thing that would make the game a lot easier to learn is to make all champions free to play at the same time so everyone can open a custom game a know what the champion does!!!! Also make it so you can use gold to build back turrets in late game to help come back
Thorin is 1000iq as always but comparing TL actually being able to get a game off T1 is way more impressive than G2 getting clowned on the way they did for T1 to get clowned by BLG
Best MSI ever. The Worlds format is good too, but the wait between Bo5s is too much.
I’ll be surprised if the LCS exists as it is now in 3-5 years. 100% we’re gonna get the OPL treatment and get consolidated with the other nearby regions because NA is NA and Riot will never allow it to die off on its own. I’m thinking Brazil and LATAM might have to lose a chunk of its teams and suffer those consequences just to make sure NA survives 😢
If they go the same route as the LCO/LJL and merge the top 2 teams every split from the LLA/CBLOL into the LCS playoff bracket, I don’t see why they would have to lose any teams because of it. OCE still has all 8 teams and if they can make it work, these two regions definitely could too. The LLA itself has been dying for years, has abysmal viewership, is the weakest minor region at internationals and only has 6 teams. Imo they should have merged it years ago. Many of their top players play on the NA server and ChampsQ when it’s available; not to mention all of LAN is considered NA geographically. As for CBLOL, I’m much more hopeful that the league’s product and viewership won’t be nearly as effected or as doom and gloom as some people expect it to be.
@@Whyisthatlamptalking thank you for this explanation as I will admit I am a little uninformed when it comes to the statistics of the neighboring regions. I do have some friends from Brazil that think that from a viewership standpoint, a merger that involved CBLOL wouldn’t affect the viewership from Brazilians as much as some think. A part of me does think that it would only happen to protect the LCS from declining too drastically, which I do not like.
Monte blinded so much by his hate of Peyz that he contradicts himself in the same fucking video 😂😂😂
1:02:15 Peyz will be better in a late-game scaling "hypercarry" meta
2:56:35 Peyz needs to learn his place and he is just a role player
Never knew that roleplaying adcs could be better at scaling hypercarry metas 😂😂
Just be consistent and for the record Peyz is still only 18.
Meat rider detected
@@lucky02245 hater detected
Thorin's G2 cope is unreal. This is G2's peak, they were actually leading the meta with lane swaps and their players were playing way better than normal. I don't think they regress to the level they were at at Worlds where they lost to NRG but they will regress for sure.
Without lane swaps they will def be worse.
yeah yeah you also said g2 is going to get 3-0 d by tes....and they beat them 3-0. " dif if g2 PEAK!!"
Just stop....its pathetic to talk this way as an na. Just ...stop.
I feel like the biggest reason there aren't many newer players in league of legends (as a youngish person with young friends) is because when I get a friend to play they have no clue what to do it's not about there being a lot of champions it's because you need to watch so many videos to even know how to play a MOBA. I feel like Smite as much as I think it's a terrible game does a great job just letting you que up for any mode and just attack people but in league minions poking knowing when to go in when to rotate when to do anything even what to build including runes you NEED a video or somebody to tell you.
Also there's so many people leveling accounts flaming new players and then all the new players I've played with quit or only play Aram.
There aren't any more caps, the best you can hope for is another Froggen, Xpeke or Nukeduck
We have seen modern versions of these player and half the time they are t being used properly and the other half they are Individually struggling
Larsen last year vs this year is black depresso. Hopefully Vetheo can step up
If Faker's injuries were flaring up, which makes sense considering he had such a good spring split then plummeted in regard to his personal performance, then I would assume his mental state was also being affected. If you're in severe pain, it's pretty damn hard to think straight, especially when you have the burden of being your team's strategic mind on top of that.
he predicted his individual performance would be bad at msi even before the tourny started.
And well... you have several videos where you see him frenetically shaking his hands after matches or touching/massaging his forearms as if he was in pain.
Lane swap meta as a whole made MSI rather painful to watch. While the meta did start evolving as mid pools had to be pinched(mostly due to how strong Chovy and Faker were in particular on their designated champs) and more carry tops started showing, bot lane pairs sadly were mostly Senna pairings and Kallista with the occasional off pick. Top lane was mostly dictated by how OP K'sante was(seriously? 3x most picked over the 2nd most) and how to address him specifically. The Gen G vs BLG matches were my favorites to see, but aside from that the lane swap meta was painful that plagued almost every match up.
What thorin said about missing jdg from last year ( and I feel the same )
I would love to see a for fun tournament where you have historical roasters play against each other.
Like jdg from last year against edg with viper and scout.
Or this t1 lineup against jdg
Blast from the past tournament 😂
The fun of tournaments are seeing teams at their best. It wouldn't be the same since they no longer play and practice together. It is a shame JDG ended though.
It's probably only possible after players retire and have no contract on them.
Church of chovy golden age!
I feel so sad as a T1 fan but at the same time I'm so happy that chovy finally found his international title also kiin this guy really deserves success
My instant reaction to the "Which LoL team would have been great, had they not sold (or lost in free agency) all their players: Copenhagen Wolves. Just imagine a 2015 LCS Team build around Bjergsen, Broxah and Rekkles. They would have qualfied for Worlds at least. And if you are like "But Rekkles was only on loan"... well, we take Forg1ven then.
Oh and Samsung White and Blue in 2015... We were robbed of quite a few awesome seasons, because those teams broke up in the Korean Exodus.
Ah here we go with Thorin hating on T1 and Faker for no reason again. Go ahead and show me the receipts of at least 5 T1 fans saying Faker played great this series.. Also fans speculating that his wrist might be injured doesn't = Faker making up excuses for his play.. Jesus Christ the hate you have for this team is worse than their delusional fans are
This tournament was the best competitively, but that’s also because teams stepped up. If G2 or PSG and somewhat TL didn’t step up, it would’ve just been waiting for the 4 way with the Asian teams like last year. G2 showing that they can beat TES and go toe to toe with T1 the first time did wonders towards the hype of the tournament. Same with PSG v BLG.
We probably won’t get this kind of tournament again because it’s more likely that teams like G2 go back a step than continue ramping up. The lack of regional parity really hurts and has you wish for more LPL v LCK to see banger games.
What? Every team but GenG and PSG underperformed
@@ShreddasaurusG2 3-0 TES is underperforming?
Faker's worst form and still Knight was closer in skill to Faker than he was to Chovy. Faker and Knight are currently flawed by the same thing which is they truly shine with a certain amount of champs while Chovy can just be the same with a variety of them. This event just showed that the LpL got nerfed by the roster change between Knight and Yagao.
I dont see a comment on it but Lehends said he tried to name him self Legends but spelled it wrong and it just stuck afterwords. So it really is just a scuffed name that is pretty funny when you realize it is just a straight up screw up on naming himself.
I would agree this is at least one of the very best tournaments. But in terms of gameplay I think MSI and Worlds last year was better
good tournament but i hate lane swaps. i wanna see 369 vs bin vs zeus vs kiin not this them running around with their junglar for the first 5mins. also ksante i know there were meme of him bring op which i dont think he is entirely but god he is boring to watch for the 50th time in a tournament. top lane was so stale this msi.
faker underperformed this tournament which hurts as he is my favourite player but they still took blg to 5 games and came 3rd so i hope uf he can get back into form they cab still be successful
Kkoma catching strays from Thorin all the time. "What he say fuck me for?"
2:19:30 much of the casting was underwhelming this MSI. just so many analysts who had only a cursory understanding of the Eastern teams and Drakos on half the play by play and also on the analyst desk as an analyst giving bad or biased analysis. I wished for more Atlas/Hysterics but tbh more Chronicler, was refreshing to hear his level of breakdown in many of the games, juxtaposed with what some of the others had to say
Factor or hello fresh?? 🤔
LeTigress Reflections when?
Idk if Thorin even watches games he talks about
Sometimes i don't understand these two. For years NA's has failed our expectations internationally over and over again. The NAfans have lower expectations finally to more realistic levels and now you want us to go back to expecting more than what they can do. it doesn't make much sense
letigress/gabby was alright for the other stuff. she just had to grind through and cast challenger/low tier if she really wanted to make it as a caster. spoiler alert: she didnt and decided to leave instead
I agree double elim is a better format but they should 100% have bracket reset. That is a flaw that is bigger than any flaw from single elim. Every team getting a 2nd chance except the team that is winning the whole time is complete BS. Once a team on the international stage loses from winners and doesnt get a 2nd chance like the rest then I guarantee there will be mass outrage.
Why is the bar set so low for na teams? Because they' are much worst. I don't think it's controversial to say that the ones expecting the thing that never happened are on the wrong here
Imagine unironically flaming gen z 24/7 saying everyone is a cry baby in today’s world. Saying burnout is fake and IN THE SAME EPISODE saying HOW DARE YOU ask me what the weirdest dream I’ve ever had it’s one thing to not answer but to act like that is an affront to even ask is WILD
My one gripe with the tournament is that it felt like the players had no breaks. Like sure.. teams should be able to overcome the grueling bo5 after bo5 specially in the losers bracket, but i feel that gives little prep time, room for improvement, and a bit of a break.
I much prefer tournaments to be done in this fashion than the 1 week break between quarters to semis and then another week to finals at worlds.
I don't think I can agree with this when this MSI has had the highest level of team performances ever, many teams showed improvement during the tournament, and the meta changed throughout. Also, the LPL consistently has the most competitive playoffs displaying the same things, with teams effectively changing their strategy when a rematch happens for a different result from their last match. And their playoffs are on a tight schedule similarly.
But in Worlds where we do have a week break between any stage of playoffs we generally have the worse quality of games.
This is actually good for players to get their break tho. You go hard for 2 weeks then take a good long break instead of the stupid 1 month of worlds
@@marclundnielsen4017 That's fine but I prefer higher quality games than trying to satisfy the ADHD people.
@@treynguyen1236 They don't though. They have to already learn the new patch and get back on the grind. This MSI is actually the worst in regards to prep time and giving pro enough time to actually reset.
"Against a lower seed LCK or LPL team G2 has a pretty good chance" lmao wow congratulations. How low is the bar that having a good chance against the 4th seed is something to be praised? Coming right after the TL rant too it's hilarious to make a comment like that.
yeah I respect them but that was kinda whack I get what they were saying but like the yeon one especially blew my mind because he literally proved on an international stage he could at least play and your import was the worst player on the team. idk we sent probably our 2nd and 3rd best teams and TL results wise met expectations and eye test had things to like and maybe build on instead of just shitting on the players for not being caps and g2 when we 2 minutes later say there isn't another caps. this is just a bigger indictment on c9 fucking up than it is on TL to carry the weight of C9 underperforming
and what the fuck is fncs excuse when they get to play a team regarded so highly and they're not able to level up in any meaningful way and actually push G2 that's the shit that pisses me off EU has so much talent and ability to be great and pisses it away
But the premise was that they COULD do it at worlds not that they would and that it would be 3rd or 4th seed. Those are still top 10 teams in the world… other than short of a miracle when could you say that of this TL team or ANY NA team? That’s not a low bar.
G2 convincing beat the 2nd seed from LPL. That's something to be praised and the only bar higher than that is to start contending tournament favourites.
Stands to reason they have a good chance against the lower seeds come worlds.
"Wow congratulations" is right.
MSI 2024 is the best League tournament I've ever watched and I've been watching since S4. It's crazy how Valorant never had decades long worth of shitty tournament formats and I can see the influence slowly being brought to League as well. MSI as a tournament is very similar to Valorant Masters. Just imagine you had Worlds with GSL groups and double elim like Champions, it will end up being the GOATED esports tournament.
Valorant tournaments are awful. Not even their own fans like it.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg Big cap the community hated single elim for the first Champions and its been double elim ever since.
@@rickhjlee Now they are complaining because players have no rest and say it's a compact schedule. It's almost like forcing teams to play b2b days is tough on you. Weird.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg No one ever says that. You dont know what you're talking about lmao
@@rickhjlee I guess you do not watch Valorant.
crazy how riot completely fumbled LoL in high school esports.
I love how all the comments about MSI were nothing but positive but Thorin can't express his opinions without being a hater so he has to construct a narrative lol
Losers bracket makes MSI the better tournament but to me the best tournament ever was the DRX win In 2022, had so many objective steals, had reverse sweeps, inhibs spawning g at the worst time possible and an underdog winning it all even tho they came all the way down from play ins. But yeah MSI is very hype, 2 teams from every region and losers bracket makes it really good.
I really think G2 was the best team in the tournament, UNTIL 20 MINUTE MARK. Especially into swaping lanes G2 consistently show off flawless early game.
Only uninteresting meta is toplane meta though. Cause most of the time your blind is a neutralizer. And that feels bad cause it will be K'sante everysingle time cause Riot doesn't want to make other blind picks viable toplane.
And now instead of having an interesting lane, you have vayne or tf to just bully out the K'sante. So nothing can happen and you can't build real edges, unless top gap by Bin.
monte looking healthier than when he was in LA. Korean > USA in terms of healthy foods. LMAO
11:42 i think the reason LCS viewership gets such skewed reporting - there are no peripheral fans anymore. The only people left are the ultra hardcore "i think fly/c9/100T might be a top 10 team worldwide" crowd
LCS is like throwing good money after bad, most people know the region doesn't have the support finically or from a player support to be good anymore. I wish it wasn't true but watching LCS at International is just depressing.
God, I love that Monte loathes La-La Land. I hated that film on watching it, and I couldn't get why so many people loved it. That movie was such a self fellating pointless piece of garbage
I think if they're not going to give the winners bracket finalist a second life that they should make the final a bo7 and give them both side selection and a 1 game advantage. That way at max 6 games get played and that's just fine?
I disagree with the Jensen take. Has Thorin not been watching these games? His performance suddenly declined during both the playoffs and MSI. He was only performing adequately during the regular season
Well at least I can play soloque and not worry about people cheating in my soloque. My PC and personal information might be vulnerable but who cares when it comes to winning my precious one win for the day in League of Legends so I can feel like I'm not a loser irl and lay my head down on my pillow at night and put it all behind me.
Ugh, every time a NA team does something well Monty tries to convince NA fans that they shouldn't even be happy about it. Like any accomplishment short beating T1 in a of 5 is worthless. Depressing point of view.
What did TL do well? They placed top six, which they are fucking expected to as a major region. What does monte consider as success? Maybe CLG and TL's top 2 finishes? Maybe C9's top 4 at worlds? Idk, it's much easier to label him as a hater than to admit this region is still barely meeting expectations despite all the money pumped into it.
@@loxi9but listen to their opinions man, the top 2 finishes they consider flops. Thorin ranting about Yeon and Impact when they were the two that actually performed is fucking crazy. Just make it make sense at least. I don’t mind the NA hate but where’s the EU hate. It’s okay G2 got 3-0ed but it’s NOT okay that TL got 3-1ed
@@loxi9 TL was expected to lose against FNC and get swept by T1. Not only were they competitive with T1, but they also destroyed FNC with an NA mid and ADC. That should be celebrated.
@@akiltircuit7515 I mean TL being expected to lose to FNC says everything does it not? FNC weren't even close to G2 and were the 2nd seed from LEC..
TL were the winners of LCS.. both are major regions.. and one of the said regions has been raiding the other for the past decade + for talent
@@Snootz86 EU's top 2 seeds have typically been favored against NA. That perception is finally changing thanks to NRG and TL with NA talent leading the charge. That should be celebrated.
Rocket league mentioned!
Monte mentioned that there was a scenario where G2 could have been up 2-1, showing some leniency towards G2. However, he didn't highlight that TL had a very realistic chance to sweep T1 3-0, whether due to TL's overperformance or T1's underperformance. While I usually respect his overall game knowledge, the bias in this instance is surprising.
They both show signs of confirmation bias, projection, and cognitive dissonance
No one is immune
Monte has hated NA since they took his Relegades team away from him. Hes been bitter and whiny about anything NA related ever since then.
@@TheDestructodave520 While true, Riot did royally fuck him over and had zero evidence to warrant what they did to him.
Nah T1 still clears G2/TL. T1 always had scaling. If you're not up 5k gold with those comps you're down. T1 comp out scaled TL all 4 games. Only game 3 for G2 that they had a better scaling comp but T1 had the one comp that can theoretically kill one single player.
@@Gurpreet-sv5zg They were up more than 5k gold.
15:03 hogwarts 1:41:09 faker fan 1:48:08 2:18:31 2:21:53 2:25:22 la la 2:28:52 saudi 2:40:20
Ffs they can't stop trying to downplay Faker for some reason. Every episode, multiple times per episode. And I'm someone who wants to see Faker's hand chopped off so that SKT/T1 burns down to the ground without him, and even then this is getting tiresome. Yes we get it, there are a few delusional fans who think he's still the best. He's not, who cares? He's still the goat without a question. And yes, Chovy is in incredible form atm but he absolutely did not hard carry Gen.G at this MSI. Hard carrying is what he did against HLE in the LCK, should have been an 0-3 loss and he turned it into a 3-1 win. At MSI he was just another member of a very stacked Gen.G team which saw Lehends, Canyon and Kiin alternate moments of carrying. He did eat up bans and first picked, but no reason to praise him just to say he's the new Bonjwha with Faker.
I don't know why these tournaments are double elimination almost the whole tournament until the finals. In a double elimination tournament the loser's bracket team needs to win twice in the final.
The team from the winners bracket won snyways. Also logistically renting a venue for and extra day that may or may not be used when it is booked months in advance is problematic
1:22:22
Idk about this take. Feels like we're rewriting history when Chovy finally gets an international title. Chovy is not a rookie by any means. Dude is in his 7th year and has arguably been in his 'prime' for the last 4 years at least, where he's been a global top 3 midlaner. Meanwhile Faker, way past his prime (2016/2017) kept stacking titles even in these last 7 years, where Chovy has been mechanically better than him. Chovy was peaking last year as well when Faker won Worlds and he went out in quarters for the nth time. Prime Faker carried a shit team with Blank and Huni to a Worlds finals and probably would've won that too if not for GenG's specific style to counter him. Meanwhile prime Chovy cant make it past quarters with stacked rosters that stomp the LCK. Its not even a contest, prime Faker clears prime Chovy on every level.
19:00
Yes, actually.
Explain to me then, Monte, why you should ever expect better from LCS than their first seed going sort of competitive with a top LCK/LPL team in bad form.
The game's unpopular in the region, all their VC dried up when they realised franchise esports is a scam, the players don't have the talent, and the work ethic is poor.
Explain to me why, other than Riot's bullshit "major region" categories, we should ever expect an LCS team to do significantly better than PCS or VCS.
Nobody gives a shit when minor region fans celebrate an upset Bo1 match against a bigger region, why should we give a shit that LCS fans are happy that a hodgepodge team from a weak region looked okay against a much stronger opponent.
Because once upon a time, the NA and EU teams genuinely had a chance of beating Chinese and Korean teams, but then Riot decided to hijack the scene, make their own circuit, stop any other TO from making their own league tournaments and then proceeded to abandon the NA region because it was going to be too much effort for them to make NA a decent region because NA culture doesnt really care for esports, and its fucking disappointing, fuck riot, they should immediately exit esports and allow real TOs to run their own international circuits.
This MSI was the best league tourney ever. Hit like a punch as well. 5 days of appetizers into 6 straight days of good games.
That's why Caedral and Dom are the best analyst, they have very good takes and generally accept their wrong takes.
These guys have shit takes and when proving wrong, defend it till their last breath losing all credibility.
1:10:55 why would anyone in their right mind play a game where you're literally lagging in 2024? Literally 90% of the reason why young people won't touch the game is that it's almost unplayable
The issue with G2 and EU as a whole is they have only one Caps whereas china and korea have at least 20 Caps level players or even better than.
Lane swap meta developed and progressed as tournament continued, people were not ganking mid level 1-2 at start of lane swaps that was a response to picking top laners that cant really survive being dove early. I think that is bad call just to say faker would know they were middle. Faker did play poorly a lot of laning phases were awful. He also had some very clutch moments to dig the team out of holes he put them in. NOt sure why we ar edumping on LCS, the best LCs has done is semi's at worlds, this iteration of TL could get into quarters and apa and yeon develop further and get a good draw it is possible to hit semis. Beat one lower seed asian team or an Eu team in quarters. Yeon and APA are not rookies but still relatively young and considering they get limited good/international experience i don't think it is fair to write them totally off. Especially with swiss there is a good chance one or two western teams get into quarters.
GenG will golden road unless they meet KT in worlds playoffs. Unfortunately Beryl is inevitable
I dont believe G2 is the top 4 team in the world right now, they beat a choking LPL 2nd seed which probably NIP and LNG which is LPL 5th and 6th seeds could beat TES at this level. Overall G2 is still around top 8 in the world, one or two BO5 wins doesn't change a team rankings. Just imagine you throw G2 in LPL summer spilt, with their such unstable performance, can they really reach top 2 or even top 4 in LPL.
Woot
I like the MSI format for MSI. Anyone who has competed in a real sport will tell you that single elim is the ultimate format. Worlds should stick to single elim. Just because other esports do double elim doesn’t mean LoL should follow suit.
I competed in a real sport and you’re wrong lmao