This is exactly the information I've been scouring the internet for it. A lot of zeroing videos out there but first one to actually explain the calculations for vcarve. Thank you
When I zero off the bed, I let the CNC machine calculate the thickness of material by first zero off the top of the material and make note of the "Absolute" coordinates of the machine. Then, zero off the bed and subtract the first probe coordinate from the bed position and that is your exact thickness of material to put into Vectric. Doing this lets me perform a surface operation, as many times as needed to get the material flat and, while leaving the material secured, not have to use calipers or guess with ruler.
I hope people read your comment. That is a great tip. I do the same at times. In my Laguna Controller I can read directly in millimeters when I zero off the surface or bed. Then go to the other position and do the math and it gives me the exact thickness the controller is registering (which is what matters). This is a good tip that I have thought about giving out, but with people's controllers being different was concerned I may create more confusion than help. I may discuss this topic in my live tonight - if i can remember to talk about it. I find this tip very helpful. Thank you for sharing it.
What stops me using wasteboard height is I use UGS as my G-Code sender. Setting to top of material is ok. If i set to wasteboard height, Return to Zero button (not editable) would crash into my material. Goes to XY zero first, then drops to Z zero.
I need to look up information on UGS G-Code sender. Not familiar with that process. I am a bit concerned if whatever process you are using does not take Z-to a location above the material before moving from one location to another. I am clearly not understanding what UGS G-Code sender is doing. Sorry that process won't let you Zero of the machine bed - this is the first time I have very heard of a machine that does not let someone Zero off the bed. At least you have a handle on what needs to be done.
Great information! I like to say that if everything is perfect, it doesn't matter which you use. If something is off (material thickness, bit Z zeroing, etc), then the Z0 choice affects where errors will occur.
thank you for watching and sharing your insights. You are correct. Good input. I try to plan for things not being perfect. I do not have one method for everything. One size does not fit all. I determine where I am going to set my Z zero each time I look at what I am doing for the job.
Thanks Rob, after you posted to LYCNC I saved this video to enhance my understanding of the zeroing process. I seem to follow your and Kyle's processes of Zeroing for the most part. I understand your thought process of being able to have different zero points for different cuts on the same project, that would be a nice feature. Sometimes when I have a carve that needs to be off the surface due to Vcarves and I need to cut through, I have spacer blocks machined to .25, .375, .5, .625 and .75 thicknesses. for the v-carves and pockets I can zero off the material, for a cut through profile I can zero off to the side of the material with my spacer which matches the thickness I put in Vectric. Saves me from needing to measure every board during a run of parts, and keeps the v-carves measured off top of material and profile cut right at spoil board with any slight variation in boards.
You have been doing it so you know your method works. There is more than "one way to skin a cat" is the old saying. Kind of crude now that I think of it, but I think we understand. The beauty of using the CNC and craft is there can be multiple. ways to accomplish what we want. I like to prepare an alternative and then let people choose what way they want to move forward. Thank you for watching and taking time to comment - that helps my channel.
Hay Rob, as you know I have the vacuum table and for now I have been zeroing off the material surface and am extra careful when I do my profile passes leaving a .5 or a .6 left on the bottom and use my bandsaw to cut everything out. but I hold my breath every time I do my profile passes because I don't want to ruin the vacuum bed, but I am thinking I am going to do some tests and see if I can be better with profile passed of the vacuum table bed. So again, you come to the rescue and make a 100% perfect instructional video!! Thanks!!!
Thank you for the nice compliment Chris. Since I have been making sure any profile cuts I make are measured from the Machine Bed my challenges with messing up my spoiler board have truly been minimal. It can be a bit of a challenge because I often will zero of the material surface for cuts where the depth from the top is critical and then reset zero for the machine bed only for my profile or through cut. So I am calculating my final toolpath different from the others, but the results make it worth the effort (at least in my opinion). Hope this works for you. Any questions you know how to reach me.
Hi Rob I'm Rob too. Not sure if by now you have this info, but you can use 'Sheets' in Vetric to have different set-ups per sheet. I believe this is usually used when you are literally working with 2 sheets of material e.g. inlays, but you can also have 2 different set-ups for the same work piece. Sheet 1 you can have zero on Material surface, and sheet 2 set it for machine bed (and copy over any relevant vectors to the second sheet).
Great input. Yes I am aware that this can be done. But hadn't thought about actually doing it until you brought it up. I'll give that possibility some more thought. The main challenge would be to make sure that any changes made to the project vectors will be made in the exact same way. But as you suggest, you could only copy over the vectors that you want to Z position changed. I hadn't thought about doing it that way, ut you now have me thinking. I may make a video makig that clear, it's not a bad idea.
Thank you for the comment and I am glad you found it helpful. That is the main purpose for why I make my videos - so always good to hear when people find it helpful.
Very well done. I typically always go from the surface of the material unless i am first doing a flattening pass to get it to a very precise thickness. Good work.
Thank you for providing me feedback. Comments, likes, and shares are what tell RUclips people are interested in the content being provided. Wishing you the best.
Great explanation on setting the bed vs material. I have been setting the material surface for years and found I was occassionally getting into the spoil board or not going all the way through having to band saw parts of the cutout. I am now going to try zero-ing off the bed and see my results. The question would be if my baord is exact .75 with the calipers should I go .751 or stay with .75? I will try both. Currently my machine and machine bed is perfectly level and I have recently trammed my spindle. Thanks for the video
Short answer, put in what you measure with your calipers. In fact, I prefer to use the variable "z" or"t" in my cut of depth field. Which will read what you put in as your material thickness. Since Vectric is reading from the spoiler bed, it will go to "0" as measured when you set Z zero so need to try and compensate for any small deviation is caliper measurement.
Rob, I see that you have a IQ Pro. I just got one (IQ Pro ATC). I am new to CNCs and I cannot find much on RUclips on how to use this machine. I had to replace the controller so my settings are a bit of a jumble and that is a road block on getting up and running. Do you have any recommendations on finding material on how to use this machine?
@professorofeconomics I have a Laguna IQ, but it is not the Pro model. Although I believe they are very similar. Unfortunately, finding detailed documentation on the machine and controller can be difficult. I try to put what I find on my channel when I can - for example my recent video on tramming my Laguna IQ. When I make these I try to remember to put them under my playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLbuKRLARGPOy22yIaza-3Q6vMu5FHhTd5&si=8uxaIh4_UcQ60V2X also the Laguna CNC Facebook group often provides good advice. Feel free to reach out to me if you have a specific issue and if I can answer it I will. You can always reach out to me on my Website: robsandstrodesigns.com
Pretty sure the reason it's called a spoilboard is because it's designed to be sacrificed. Cutting a small amount into the spoilboard helps to make cleaner cuts through the material surface. "Saving my spoilboard" isn't a good reason to possibly crash a bit (one of your cons to zeroing off the bed). When your spoilboard is no longer keeping your material flat & level due to the cuts in it, it's time to run a new flattening pass. I don't use screws to hold material down because that ruins a spoilboard faster than onionskinning my cuts. Screws tend to leave tiny humps around the holes in MDF and those will lift your material so you don't have a consistent material thickness measured off the bed.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We all have the ways we want to approach our work. You make some valid points about screws and why it’s called a spoiler board. I still use screws but not as much as I used to. Reducing the number of times and eventually times I need to replace my mdf is something I prefer over intentionally chopping up my spoiler board - especially when it is something I can manage. But, I realize everyone has their own thoughts about how to achieve the results wanted. My goal is to share what I have learned through my experiences and provide people options on how to approach their work. So, thank you for sharing your perspective and giving others a different point of view. Wishing you the best.
Tip: You can easily tell if your g-code file is set to either datum: Surface will have negative Z values, Machine bed will have positive Z values. I do that every time I'm in doubt
Cnc makers should make an optical lens and then you have to place your item, trace it, remove it and run the software and it will measure multiple points within your trace ( to measure the bed surface) . Then….. you place your piece back and it runs again and subtracts the top of the board from the work surface it had and it’ll know exactly how deep to go. That would be great for boards that may have slightly more or less material in different sections
That would be kind of a cool invention. With that said if we zero off the bottom minor differences won't matter - unless you have your rapid "z" closer than most people have it. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@RobSandstromDesigns ill be giving it a few shots this upcoming weekend hopefully. im making the table for the cnc and ill start practicing all this stuff
@@eladsinay6914 wishing you the very best. I find that at times I let myself get more intimidated than was needed. But, then I don't realize that until after I am complete. Reach out if you need any insights or additional help.
to save myself some headache (and possible catastrophe) when zeroing from the bed, I add a hundredth or so of thickness on the material and adjust the cut depth accordingly. That way it won't crash into the material or take too deep of a plunge with a smaller bit.
It is important that we discover our own challenges and vulnerabilities and set up work processes that help us deal with them. If we know the fundamentals of what we are doing we can do that for ourselves. Thank you for providig your methods and I apprecaite that you did provide a comment.
Thank you for your preferences. I am sure others will appreciate your insights. As for me, mine is a job by job specific decision for everything I do. I haven't determined a one size fits all for my projects, single or double sided.
Thank you for sharing your process. I bet some other epople will benefit from your idea. That's not a bad process, as long as you remember to change the cutout designs if you change the design in the other sheets. I would likely forget - but - I like that process. Of course you have the same issue if you change the z to be off the bed partway thorugh the process.
![Spindle Upgrade... You MUST Add A Pause (dwell) Command! [CNC Router]](/img/1.gif)
This is exactly the information I've been scouring the internet for it. A lot of zeroing videos out there but first one to actually explain the calculations for vcarve. Thank you
I am so glad you found it helpful. That is my goal with these videos.
When I zero off the bed, I let the CNC machine calculate the thickness of material by first zero off the top of the material and make note of the "Absolute" coordinates of the machine. Then, zero off the bed and subtract the first probe coordinate from the bed position and that is your exact thickness of material to put into Vectric. Doing this lets me perform a surface operation, as many times as needed to get the material flat and, while leaving the material secured, not have to use calipers or guess with ruler.
I hope people read your comment. That is a great tip. I do the same at times. In my Laguna Controller I can read directly in millimeters when I zero off the surface or bed. Then go to the other position and do the math and it gives me the exact thickness the controller is registering (which is what matters). This is a good tip that I have thought about giving out, but with people's controllers being different was concerned I may create more confusion than help. I may discuss this topic in my live tonight - if i can remember to talk about it. I find this tip very helpful. Thank you for sharing it.
What stops me using wasteboard height is I use UGS as my G-Code sender. Setting to top of material is ok. If i set to wasteboard height, Return to Zero button (not editable) would crash into my material. Goes to XY zero first, then drops to Z zero.
I need to look up information on UGS G-Code sender. Not familiar with that process. I am a bit concerned if whatever process you are using does not take Z-to a location above the material before moving from one location to another. I am clearly not understanding what UGS G-Code sender is doing. Sorry that process won't let you Zero of the machine bed - this is the first time I have very heard of a machine that does not let someone Zero off the bed. At least you have a handle on what needs to be done.
Great information!
I like to say that if everything is perfect, it doesn't matter which you use. If something is off (material thickness, bit Z zeroing, etc), then the Z0 choice affects where errors will occur.
thank you for watching and sharing your insights. You are correct. Good input. I try to plan for things not being perfect. I do not have one method for everything. One size does not fit all. I determine where I am going to set my Z zero each time I look at what I am doing for the job.
Thanks Rob, after you posted to LYCNC I saved this video to enhance my understanding of the zeroing process. I seem to follow your and Kyle's processes of Zeroing for the most part.
I understand your thought process of being able to have different zero points for different cuts on the same project, that would be a nice feature. Sometimes when I have a carve that needs to be off the surface due to Vcarves and I need to cut through, I have spacer blocks machined to .25, .375, .5, .625 and .75 thicknesses. for the v-carves and pockets I can zero off the material, for a cut through profile I can zero off to the side of the material with my spacer which matches the thickness I put in Vectric. Saves me from needing to measure every board during a run of parts, and keeps the v-carves measured off top of material and profile cut right at spoil board with any slight variation in boards.
You have been doing it so you know your method works. There is more than "one way to skin a cat" is the old saying. Kind of crude now that I think of it, but I think we understand. The beauty of using the CNC and craft is there can be multiple. ways to accomplish what we want. I like to prepare an alternative and then let people choose what way they want to move forward. Thank you for watching and taking time to comment - that helps my channel.
Hay Rob, as you know I have the vacuum table and for now I have been zeroing off the material surface and am extra careful when I do my profile passes leaving a .5 or a .6 left on the bottom and use my bandsaw to cut everything out. but I hold my breath every time I do my profile passes because I don't want to ruin the vacuum bed, but I am thinking I am going to do some tests and see if I can be better with profile passed of the vacuum table bed. So again, you come to the rescue and make a 100% perfect instructional video!!
Thanks!!!
Thank you for the nice compliment Chris. Since I have been making sure any profile cuts I make are measured from the Machine Bed my challenges with messing up my spoiler board have truly been minimal. It can be a bit of a challenge because I often will zero of the material surface for cuts where the depth from the top is critical and then reset zero for the machine bed only for my profile or through cut. So I am calculating my final toolpath different from the others, but the results make it worth the effort (at least in my opinion). Hope this works for you. Any questions you know how to reach me.
Hi Rob I'm Rob too. Not sure if by now you have this info, but you can use 'Sheets' in Vetric to have different set-ups per sheet. I believe this is usually used when you are literally working with 2 sheets of material e.g. inlays, but you can also have 2 different set-ups for the same work piece. Sheet 1 you can have zero on Material surface, and sheet 2 set it for machine bed (and copy over any relevant vectors to the second sheet).
Great input. Yes I am aware that this can be done. But hadn't thought about actually doing it until you brought it up. I'll give that possibility some more thought. The main challenge would be to make sure that any changes made to the project vectors will be made in the exact same way. But as you suggest, you could only copy over the vectors that you want to Z position changed. I hadn't thought about doing it that way, ut you now have me thinking. I may make a video makig that clear, it's not a bad idea.
I have often wondered why there were times when someone would zero off the bed vs surface. Good information. I appreciate it.
I had heard this from several people and that is why I decided to do this video. Thank you for confirming what others have asked about.
Rob, Watched this video after you posted on LYCNC. Good job Thanks
Thank you for the comment and I am glad you found it helpful. That is the main purpose for why I make my videos - so always good to hear when people find it helpful.
Excellent video. Thank you
Thank you very much for taking the tie to provide a comment. I am glad you thought it was helpful.
Very well done. I typically always go from the surface of the material unless i am first doing a flattening pass to get it to a very precise thickness. Good work.
Great tip! Another example of when someone would want to use the machine bed. Thanks for watching and commenting.
Once again great advice never stop learning thank you
Thank you for providing me feedback. Comments, likes, and shares are what tell RUclips people are interested in the content being provided. Wishing you the best.
Don't apologize, you did a great job.
Thank you.
Nice job Rob
Thank you for the comment. Every comment, like, and share helps add up and prossibly get's youtube to show it to more people. Wishing you the best.
Great explanation on setting the bed vs material. I have been setting the material surface for years and found I was occassionally getting into the spoil board or not going all the way through having to band saw parts of the cutout. I am now going to try zero-ing off the bed and see my results. The question would be if my baord is exact .75 with the calipers should I go .751 or stay with .75? I will try both. Currently my machine and machine bed is perfectly level and I have recently trammed my spindle. Thanks for the video
Short answer, put in what you measure with your calipers. In fact, I prefer to use the variable "z" or"t" in my cut of depth field. Which will read what you put in as your material thickness. Since Vectric is reading from the spoiler bed, it will go to "0" as measured when you set Z zero so need to try and compensate for any small deviation is caliper measurement.
Rob, I see that you have a IQ Pro. I just got one (IQ Pro ATC). I am new to CNCs and I cannot find much on RUclips on how to use this machine. I had to replace the controller so my settings are a bit of a jumble and that is a road block on getting up and running. Do you have any recommendations on finding material on how to use this machine?
@professorofeconomics I have a Laguna IQ, but it is not the Pro model. Although I believe they are very similar. Unfortunately, finding detailed documentation on the machine and controller can be difficult. I try to put what I find on my channel when I can - for example my recent video on tramming my Laguna IQ. When I make these I try to remember to put them under my playlist: ruclips.net/p/PLbuKRLARGPOy22yIaza-3Q6vMu5FHhTd5&si=8uxaIh4_UcQ60V2X also the Laguna CNC Facebook group often provides good advice. Feel free to reach out to me if you have a specific issue and if I can answer it I will. You can always reach out to me on my Website: robsandstrodesigns.com
Pretty sure the reason it's called a spoilboard is because it's designed to be sacrificed. Cutting a small amount into the spoilboard helps to make cleaner cuts through the material surface. "Saving my spoilboard" isn't a good reason to possibly crash a bit (one of your cons to zeroing off the bed). When your spoilboard is no longer keeping your material flat & level due to the cuts in it, it's time to run a new flattening pass.
I don't use screws to hold material down because that ruins a spoilboard faster than onionskinning my cuts. Screws tend to leave tiny humps around the holes in MDF and those will lift your material so you don't have a consistent material thickness measured off the bed.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts. We all have the ways we want to approach our work. You make some valid points about screws and why it’s called a spoiler board. I still use screws but not as much as I used to. Reducing the number of times and eventually times I need to replace my mdf is something I prefer over intentionally chopping up my spoiler board - especially when it is something I can manage. But, I realize everyone has their own thoughts about how to achieve the results wanted. My goal is to share what I have learned through my experiences and provide people options on how to approach their work. So, thank you for sharing your perspective and giving others a different point of view. Wishing you the best.
Tip: You can easily tell if your g-code file is set to either datum: Surface will have negative Z values, Machine bed will have positive Z values. I do that every time I'm in doubt
Agreed. But I admit to never looking at the gcode. I let Vectric do all the work for me and just use the vectric software.
Cnc makers should make an optical lens and then you have to place your item, trace it, remove it and run the software and it will measure multiple points within your trace ( to measure the bed surface) . Then….. you place your piece back and it runs again and subtracts the top of the board from the work surface it had and it’ll know exactly how deep to go. That would be great for boards that may have slightly more or less material in different sections
That would be kind of a cool invention. With that said if we zero off the bottom minor differences won't matter - unless you have your rapid "z" closer than most people have it. I hope that makes sense. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
@@RobSandstromDesigns ill be giving it a few shots this upcoming weekend hopefully. im making the table for the cnc and ill start practicing all this stuff
@@eladsinay6914 wishing you the very best. I find that at times I let myself get more intimidated than was needed. But, then I don't realize that until after I am complete. Reach out if you need any insights or additional help.
@@RobSandstromDesigns thank you so so much . i really appreciate it
to save myself some headache (and possible catastrophe) when zeroing from the bed, I add a hundredth or so of thickness on the material and adjust the cut depth accordingly. That way it won't crash into the material or take too deep of a plunge with a smaller bit.
It is important that we discover our own challenges and vulnerabilities and set up work processes that help us deal with them. If we know the fundamentals of what we are doing we can do that for ourselves. Thank you for providig your methods and I apprecaite that you did provide a comment.
Don't forget about a 2-sided job: The best way to do a 2-sided job is one side is material surface, the other side is machine bed
Thank you for your preferences. I am sure others will appreciate your insights. As for me, mine is a job by job specific decision for everything I do. I haven't determined a one size fits all for my projects, single or double sided.
Different SHEETS can be set differently. So I make a Cutout Sheet. Zero all the carving sheet on Surface and the CutOut Sheet on the bed.
Thank you for sharing your process. I bet some other epople will benefit from your idea. That's not a bad process, as long as you remember to change the cutout designs if you change the design in the other sheets. I would likely forget - but - I like that process. Of course you have the same issue if you change the z to be off the bed partway thorugh the process.