Z Zero Position - Machine Bed or Material Surface?
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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In this video, I’ll finally address a question I get quite often. That is, the difference between setting the Z zero position to the material surface and setting it to the machine bed. First I’ll show you the file I created in Vectric Aspire to 3D carve two barn stars - one with the Z zero position on the machine bed, and the other with it on the material surface. I’ll then briefly show you the toolpaths for each of the stars. Then I’ll show you how I carved each one of them out of a piece of material, and the issues I had along the way. Then I’ll tell you what my primary issue was, and how I corrected it.
Finally, I’ll summarize the entire process and discuss when each setup is appropriate, or not, as the case may be.
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Great video!
I describe the Z Zero choice as related to where errors are going to end up. If everything is perfect (material thickness, flatness, Z calibration, ...), then either zero position will work. If anything is off (or might be off), then choosing the right zero position can help make sure the error doesn't affect your work.
Good job ❤
Great video Mark, can you talk a little bit about your spindle warm up routine and the size differences in sizes of the final Barn Stars?
Will do, Brooks. The spindle warm up routine is programmed into the Avid CNC profile in Mach4, so all I have to do is click one button, but I'll talk more about it during the Live Q&A this afternoon.
Good job ❤
For resetting the z-zero such as you did at approx 8 minutes, I just go to the box for the Z value and add the amount of adjustment directly to the value indicated and enter it. The machine then thinks the bit is higher than the zero established by the touch plate. Steve
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On the subject of axis calibration, I recommend looking in to things like Backlash.For this purpose, I have a depth gauge I can attach to the spindle
I haven't gotten into backlash yet. I just now got the machine calibrated - lol
@@MarkLindsayCNC For gantries that use a wormgear, and not a belt, backlash might be less severe. Curious to see the results of either one
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At 21.05 you set Z zero on blue tape. If the machine was calibrated correctly the profile cut should have left blue tape on the spoil board.
Am i missing something here. Great Video.
I was surprised by that as well. I rechecked calibration (I even bought a higher-quality dial indicator just to be sure,) and it's spot on. The only difference I can think of is the thickness of the layer of CA glue used to mount the scrap piece of MDF. When I set Z zero, I didn't put any CA glue on the tape I put my touch plate on. I just put down 2 pieces of tape. I guess I should have put down 3 to simulate the CA glue. At least it didn't cut .010 into the spoilboard like it did on the second star.
@@MarkLindsayCNC I noticed that too. I check the thickness of the two pieces of tape glued together with digital calipers and then use that value to offset the my Z zero touch off from the machine bed with no tape. I choose a value that results in the cut penetrating the tape by about .002" . A easier way to do it is just do a Z zero tough off on the machine bed with no tape and then add .002" to .003" to it to establish the Z zero for the job. That is after touch off on the machine bed use MID to go to Z=.002" and zero out Z. If the Z axis is calibrated correctly then no marks should be left on the spoil board.
For full cuts, I recommend zeroing to the bed for two reasons. One, material thickness of stock, especially wood, often varies and large pieces may have warps. So setting to the stock can lead to digging into the base. And two, I can quickly inspect G-code files for any z movements that are negative, indicating an error generating toolpaths.
Mark, I will be saving and going over all your videos.
I need to ask you a serious question, my mother is dying - can you point me in the right direction.
I want to make her a 2.5D of my father to make her happy.
I already bought Vectric about a year ago.
Getting ready to order an Axiom machine.
I was using an Inventables Machine.
Please let me know what I need to do....
I'm very sorry to hear of this Ray. I'm even sorrier that I can't be of much help to you, as I'm not that good with 3D like you want to do. I would recommend you reach out to Michael Mezalick. He's an absolute wizard with Aspire, and can help you do what you want to do. Here's a link to his channel - he shares his email address in his video descriptions. Good luck, and may God bless you and yours. www.youtube.com/@mezalick
Mark, Thanks for the great video. I did notice that when you did the second star you set z zero off the machine surface, but, after calibrating the machine, you had at least one layer of tape between your zeroing block and the machine surface. Wouldn't the thickness of that tape raise z zero up and not be truly off the machine surface? Love your videos.
The reason for the tape under the Z zero touch plate was to compensate for the tape under the material being cut. I wanted the bit to cut through the material - it wasn't important that the bit cut into the spoilboard.
I zero to the bed 99% of the time. I build mostly furniture, furniture pieces and cabinets and it’s the only way to guarantee OD dimensions regardless of material thickness. There is a reason pro shops do this. For 3d carvs, like you said, material is good. If you don’t care about minor dimensional differences then stick with whatever system you usually employ.
Also the z touch probes are repeatable within 2-5 thousands. If you want to be more accurate and have better repeatability get yourself a Starette z probe. They are 300 bucks but they are dead accurate. Super easy to use with a G92 offset in any CNC software too
curious - in what way are the other probes more repeatable? a probe is nothing more than a conductive metal. Do the other probes have a smoother surface?
@@eitantal726 oh sorry, the z probes I’m talking about are mechanical not conductive. The one I have is guaranteed to 0.0005. I had a conductive probe when I first stated a few years ago but doing a touch 10 times would vary to almost 0.008. Not the end of the world but annoying and unpredictable. My probe was very similar to the Avid version. When it doesn’t matter I setup Vectric profiles to Z + 0.003 and don’t hit the equals sign.
@@5280Woodworking So- I realize this is an old thread... but I'm interested in which probe you use. Could you post the Starrett number?
As always as much as I think I know I always learn something new. Dial caliper, you said you’ve updated yours, time for me to do the same, would you share which one you got ? Thanks learning more. Butch
Sure, Butch. Here you go:
Anytime Tools 6" Dial Caliper: amzn.to/3KMtKho
Z-Limit Depth Base for 6" Calipers: amzn.to/3o4RpRe
Thanks
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Thanks for this video very informative I have often wondered how to reference to the bed, however I noticed an error on the second star which was you zero off the machine bed but your zero should have been off the blue tape like you circle test piece was, that would explain the cutting depth on the bed along side the axis calibration you mentioned would you agree?
Good eye, Mike. I talked about that during the follow-up Live Q&A. It was the compounding of various factors that lead to the difference in size and cutting depth. My Z was out of calibration, for sure. Once calibrated, things were spot on. But, not using the tape under the touch plate certainly added to the discrepancy.
Hi Mark,
Can I ask you where you get that caliper from?
Rinus
I got them from Amazon. Here are the links:
Anytime Tools 6" Dial Caliper: amzn.to/3KMtKho
Z-Limit Depth Base for 6" Caliper: amzn.to/3o4RpRe
❤Good job ❤