Today the IRC Tire guy runs a lap time shoot out, between the Beta 300RR Race Edition and the TM300FI 4 stroke. Two 30 minute motos on a sand turn track.
Probably the best comparison video I have seen most of the time people do 3 laps each and make a claim a 30 minute moto give allot better data. I am starting to realize rich is the swiss army knife of riders
I loved the comparison, that being said. I believe it's almost impossible to differentiate a great time ,too a great time. You are inspiring so many and myself included. Thank you.
Great job Rich. You are getting very versatile with your riding disciplines. At 62 I've aged out of that stuff. One thing I'm doing each and every time is practicing those balancing drills you recommend. Very helpful. Also I see you are using the same thing as myself for HR and workouts. I just love my Polar!! Been using Polar in some form for over 30 years.
Sold my Beta 300 and I still miss it. I’m in the KTM 150 now, Awesome bike but just miss the Beta ergonomics and smooth power! Good video as always and killer riding
What's funny is that nothing has changed about our knowledge or ability to produce a powerful and relatively light weight 4 stroke engine in a very long time. People were getting nearly as much power per CC as modern high performance 4 do today way back in the day except with carburetors and points instead of modern programmable EFI and CDI. The 4 stroke hasn't seen leaps and bounds of technological advancement, manufacturers were just slow to utilize what they already knew, especially with small engines.
Dang. I need to ride my Beta 300 more. But even sitting on a stand in the garage it makes me smile. Leave it to Italy to produce a really pretty dirtbike.
i liked the comparison. I ride a 22 Sherco Se 300 and am toying with getting a Yamaha YZFX 250 as a second bike just for the fast days. Thank you for all your hard work
Yz250fx is a great bike. Fast and stable. Suspension is stiff for enduro or woods riding but easy to correct. Being able to remap it on the fly is amazing. Keefer free feeling eliminates a lot of engine braking.
I've always found myself to be faster on a 4 stroke unless the terrain requires 1st gear. I just feel more comfortable with the stability of the 4 stroke, and I find that no matter how long it's been since I rode one, I can always jump on a 4 stroke (at least one that I've ridden before) and feel comfortable; whereas it takes me about 30 minutes to an hour to readjust to riding a two stroke when I've been riding 4 strokes for a while. However, like I said, if the terrain requires 1st gear I'm likely minutes faster on a two stroke just because it's so much easier for me to get unstuck Good video, Rich, cool to see your experience with the age old comparison 🤟
I'm so sorry to hear that! I'm not at all a doctor but to me a shoulder separation sounds less scary than breaking your back. You'll be back in no time, hope to see you at the races after the summer!
I like most others grew up on a 2 stroke and i bought my first ktm 300 in 1994 and now i have husqvarna 2 stroke and a ktm 4 stroke and the ktm is the first 4 stroke ive ever had and i love them both.
You nailed it with the engine braking observation! In slower single track and or tight technical trails where you stand a lot, a four stroke and it’s engine braking can be very tiresome. My new Beta 300RR is so much easier to ride in any of those conditions than my WR 450 four stroke. I know, I know. Anything would be easier than a 450 four stroke but it’s the lack of engine braking that allows you to flow better and not be constantly rocking back and forth and working your upper body and grip constantly. Less arm pump and less energy consumption make for better endurance and a more pleasurable ride. It’s work on the WR as opposed to pleasure on the Beta. Cheers from North Eastern Ontario Canada, and thanks for the video!
Excellent video. It’s hard to argue against numbers, facts, and measurements. I would like to see the comparison with more elevation changes. How about a video on crossing logs that are are parallel to the direction of travel. Thank you.
I own a 300xc and a 250xcf and after having many large 4Ts I’ve noticed the smaller 4T has so much less engine braking that I can ride it more like a 2T and because it has less power but a broader powerband I can really milk it in twisty trails w/o it becoming as tiring as the 300. 300 of course being better for hillclimbs, power wheelies and open sandy trails. For Hard Enduro it’s a toss up I used to inly take the 300, but lately as a challenge I’ve been riding the 250 4T and am amazed at how well it does the tech and gnar, I wouldn’t have thought so.
I think my favorite part of a 4 stroke is the smooth linear power and the engine braking. But damn… 2 strokes on pipe are just stupid scary fast. Also, if I blow up a 4 stroke, I’m spending a grand plus to rebuild. Blow up a 2 stroke and you’re probably looking at a few hundred bucks. Eventually 2 strokes will be revolutionized and offer more linear power and perhaps best out 4 strokes one day.
The braking zones are going to be different for sure . The 2-stroke is going to need better braking into the tighter turns . But you're familiar with that.
I have a 22 Beta 300 race edition and a new 23 KTM 300 TBI. Both good, but I really like the Beta better. I suck, especially compared to anyone with your skill, but there’s just a connection with the Beta.
Rich, what is the equipment or app info you are using for your lap times, I would like to do the same thing, for myself to see if I am improving, and I'm sure others would want to know as well? Thank you you are an awesome teacher! I did ask this same question on another one of your video's.
Thanks for all the help you give those of us that want to become better riders and have fun. I'm a little older and just discovered hard enduro about a year ago. I have learned so much from you. I don't have a very big bike budget so the TM and Beta although awesome bikes are a little out of reach. Just wondering how a Kawasaki KLX300R would compare?
I sat on one at a dealer while my buddy was picking up his 300xc, it was a tall bike and suspension felt quite stiff, it barely sagged when my 220lbs sat in it. It also felt very very heavy and looking at the specs its about 60+ lbs heavier than these bikes. I think it’s a great get into the sport, put with the family type bike, but for long, hard and faster days I think you’d be at a huge disadvantage. You may be better looking at the used market and getting a low hour higher end bike.
Curious if the Beta makes you work harder. A good test would be to repeat but in reverse and compare heart rates. Might give some insight on which would be less physically demanding over a 3hrs sprint enduro.
So I think the beta allows me to push harder. I can push the limit a bit harder where as the TM I’m not quite as comfortable on it. Although I’m sure with adjustments and time I’d be able to do the same.
What would you suggest for a street legal dirtbike toy? I have a dirt pile that seemed to have been turned into a sand track, very similar to this one, with more elavation. I've been scooting my 890 in there, as you can imagine it's a bit heavy. it's like 20 minutes away @ 35mph. I'd love something i can yeet into a bush and not worry about too much. not going to lie, Ive thought about making a trails bike into a street legal one. It's pretty easy in CT.
One thing I noticed when you were riding the TM. I thought the engine was one gear too low for a 300 4 stroke. I mean, Tork could be a advantage for this kind of terrain and it's like you wanted to use the power more than torque. It's really noticeable when you take the Beta and we hear the engine way smoother ! It's like you were using the TM like a 250 4 stroke. Some people would probably say it's not much different but it is. Especially in the bottom. So, maybe I'm wrong but I ride both, 2 stroke 300 and 4 stroke 250 and I can hear the engine is like running not in the good range. 😶
@@IRCTireUSAMoto Think it may, as you pointed out, engine braking was an issue, you looked way faster into corners on the Beta.. Its one thing i hate about 4T engine braking. havent used one long enough to adjust
Hello Rich ! what did mean the bikes are both KYB ??? we see the Beta has a ZF shock ! doesn't that mean anything ? i remember how these ZF s work, it was not the same as a KYB , but maybe it changed over the years... anyway, your videos are GREAT and really enjoy them ! greetings from Israel !
@@alexrateliff4784 not this one...!!! :-) he probably mean only the fork, because the TM has it's own made shock also. i saw the 2023 already comes with a KYB shock!
@@IRCTireUSAMoto obviously i cant feel what you feel but the rear of that bike hopped, you could see you had to work harder to ride it. its probably softer feeling plusher but ultimately being more lively. my 2 cents, could be wrong.
Something went wrong with your timing on the 4th and 5th lap on the beta. With a difference of only 0.00.15 in averages I would be concerned that the beta average was actually higher with more reasonable times on your 4th and 5th lap. The screenshot shows your 4th lap was only 10 seconds and your 5th lap was only 55 seconds.
Re heart rate, I’m guessing you wore a watch? You should pair it with an hrm chest strap. Wrist gadgets are horribly inaccurate in Moto sports because of all the bouncing etc they can’t read properly. I burn insane calories according to both my garmin and Apple Watch on my sled, bike or quad with crazy heart rates that I don’t even hit playing hockey (182 and I’m 49). But heart rate is recorded way lower with the strap, including in hockey, running, road bicycle etc (168 bpm or so).
@@IRCTireUSAMoto cool, didn’t even know those existed. Enjoy that heart rate while you can young man! FYI love the vids, new rider and I’m learning a lot. Cheers
Felt a bit more comfortable to me. Bit more planted. There’s actually one part of the track that has a acceleration bump I could rebound over on the beta comfortably.. where as the Tm I couldn’t quite get it. 8:44
I felt like it was more, I could push harder and push myself into a higher heart rate. Whereas on the TM any harder I would’ve crashed. That being said, I did crash on the beta. Haha
"I like any bike. They're all rad." This is the attitude I like the most about you. You're just so happy to be riding!
Thank you man! I’m so lucky to be able to do what I love!
Seems like a solid comparison, same tires and suspension is key and most people miss that when comparing bikes. Thanks for the video Rich!
Thanks man!
+ same highly skilled rider
Probably the best comparison video I have seen most of the time people do 3 laps each and make a claim a 30 minute moto give allot better data. I am starting to realize rich is the swiss army knife of riders
I really appreciate that man! I’m definitely trying to be a Swiss Army knife!
Great video!! Would be cool if you could continue the comparison on other types of tracks aswell
Great idea
Super interesting comparison! Love all the data!
Thanks for watching!
I loved the comparison, that being said. I believe it's almost impossible to differentiate a great time ,too a great time. You are inspiring so many and myself included. Thank you.
Great job Rich. You are getting very versatile with your riding disciplines. At 62 I've aged out of that stuff. One thing I'm doing each and every time is practicing those balancing drills you recommend. Very helpful. Also I see you are using the same thing as myself for HR and workouts. I just love my Polar!! Been using Polar in some form for over 30 years.
Sold my Beta 300 and I still miss it. I’m in the KTM 150 now,
Awesome bike but just miss the Beta ergonomics and smooth power! Good video as always and killer riding
Same displacement 2T vs. 4T wasn't even a comparison not long ago; it's amazing how far four stroke development has come.
Right!?!? It’s absolutely amazing!
What's funny is that nothing has changed about our knowledge or ability to produce a powerful and relatively light weight 4 stroke engine in a very long time.
People were getting nearly as much power per CC as modern high performance 4 do today way back in the day except with carburetors and points instead of modern programmable EFI and CDI.
The 4 stroke hasn't seen leaps and bounds of technological advancement, manufacturers were just slow to utilize what they already knew, especially with small engines.
Right when you sat on the bike I was like, well my posture sucks! 🤣 Always great technique on display in your vids.
Haha thanks for watching
Dang. I need to ride my Beta 300 more. But even sitting on a stand in the garage it makes me smile. Leave it to Italy to produce a really pretty dirtbike.
i liked the comparison. I ride a 22 Sherco Se 300 and am toying with getting a Yamaha YZFX 250 as a second bike just for the fast days. Thank you for all your hard work
U will love the 250fx. Just upload the keefer map and add a little more idle to it. Also the factory battery is garbage. Otherwise great bike
Yz250fx is a great bike. Fast and stable. Suspension is stiff for enduro or woods riding but easy to correct. Being able to remap it on the fly is amazing. Keefer free feeling eliminates a lot of engine braking.
Love it, Rich!!! That heart rate would be me in my grave, lol.
Haha! Pretty brutal feeling!!
I've always found myself to be faster on a 4 stroke unless the terrain requires 1st gear.
I just feel more comfortable with the stability of the 4 stroke, and I find that no matter how long it's been since I rode one, I can always jump on a 4 stroke (at least one that I've ridden before) and feel comfortable; whereas it takes me about 30 minutes to an hour to readjust to riding a two stroke when I've been riding 4 strokes for a while.
However, like I said, if the terrain requires 1st gear I'm likely minutes faster on a two stroke just because it's so much easier for me to get unstuck
Good video, Rich, cool to see your experience with the age old comparison 🤟
I'm so sorry to hear that! I'm not at all a doctor but to me a shoulder separation sounds less scary than breaking your back. You'll be back in no time, hope to see you at the races after the summer!
I like most others grew up on a 2 stroke and i bought my first ktm 300 in 1994 and now i have husqvarna 2 stroke and a ktm 4 stroke and the ktm is the first 4 stroke ive ever had and i love them both.
Great Stuff❤ For a Hard enduro Beginner with a small 4 Stroke Bike - maybe you can do a comparison about Hill Switchback, Slow Wheelie….
You nailed it with the engine braking observation! In slower single track and or tight technical trails where you stand a lot, a four stroke and it’s engine braking can be very tiresome. My new Beta 300RR is so much easier to ride in any of those conditions than my WR 450 four stroke. I know, I know. Anything would be easier than a 450 four stroke but it’s the lack of engine braking that allows you to flow better and not be constantly rocking back and forth and working your upper body and grip constantly. Less arm pump and less energy consumption make for better endurance and a more pleasurable ride. It’s work on the WR as opposed to pleasure on the Beta. Cheers from North Eastern Ontario Canada, and thanks for the video!
TM sure is purdy.
Awesome Rich. Max heart rate was impressive.
Very informative!
Love it! Thanks again Rich!
2T FTW.
edit: mounting a VX-40 front this weekend. very much looking forward to trying it.
Excellent video. It’s hard to argue against numbers, facts, and measurements. I would like to see the comparison with more elevation changes.
How about a video on crossing logs that are are parallel to the direction of travel.
Thank you.
Noticed when you first took off on the beta. Clutch engagement is really far out there. Nice 👍🏼
I own a 300xc and a 250xcf and after having many large 4Ts I’ve noticed the smaller 4T has so much less engine braking that I can ride it more like a 2T and because it has less power but a broader powerband I can really milk it in twisty trails w/o it becoming as tiring as the 300.
300 of course being better for hillclimbs, power wheelies and open sandy trails. For Hard Enduro it’s a toss up I used to inly take the 300, but lately as a challenge I’ve been riding the 250 4T and am amazed at how well it does the tech and gnar, I wouldn’t have thought so.
Great review. Would love to see a sherco , tm 300 4t shootout
I’d love to try it!
I think my favorite part of a 4 stroke is the smooth linear power and the engine braking.
But damn… 2 strokes on pipe are just stupid scary fast.
Also, if I blow up a 4 stroke, I’m spending a grand plus to rebuild. Blow up a 2 stroke and you’re probably looking at a few hundred bucks.
Eventually 2 strokes will be revolutionized and offer more linear power and perhaps best out 4 strokes one day.
It would be interesting to see you compare the Beta with a TM 300 2stroke...
The braking zones are going to be different for sure . The 2-stroke is going to need better braking into the tighter turns . But you're familiar with that.
Your heart rate is insane!!!
I have a 22 Beta 300 race edition and a new 23 KTM 300 TBI. Both good, but I really like the Beta better. I suck, especially compared to anyone with your skill, but there’s just a connection with the Beta.
Another great video! Thx!
Rich, what is the equipment or app info you are using for your lap times, I would like to do the same thing, for myself to see if I am improving, and I'm sure others would want to know as well? Thank you you are an awesome teacher! I did ask this same question on another one of your video's.
Come ride in the REAL SAND down south brother! GREAT VID as always! WEEEEW!
Now you have to run it on Jack's TM 300 2T
nicely done rich
Thanks for all the help you give those of us that want to become better riders and have fun. I'm a little older and just discovered hard enduro about a year ago. I have learned so much from you. I don't have a very big bike budget so the TM and Beta although awesome bikes are a little out of reach. Just wondering how a Kawasaki KLX300R would compare?
I sat on one at a dealer while my buddy was picking up his 300xc, it was a tall bike and suspension felt quite stiff, it barely sagged when my 220lbs sat in it. It also felt very very heavy and looking at the specs its about 60+ lbs heavier than these bikes.
I think it’s a great get into the sport, put with the family type bike, but for long, hard and faster days I think you’d be at a huge disadvantage. You may be better looking at the used market and getting a low hour higher end bike.
How did the tm times compare to last weeks beta times?
The average times last week were a few seconds faster since the dirt was perfect.
Great job !
Thanks for watching!
What device did you use for the test. Seemed like great data.
Curious if the Beta makes you work harder. A good test would be to repeat but in reverse and compare heart rates. Might give some insight on which would be less physically demanding over a 3hrs sprint enduro.
So I think the beta allows me to push harder. I can push the limit a bit harder where as the TM I’m not quite as comfortable on it. Although I’m sure with adjustments and time I’d be able to do the same.
Pls help me what is ur opinion about ktm 250 sxf and tm 300 power ??
but which one was moar funner tho? no need to answer, it's also the one that sounded best. 💨
What would you suggest for a street legal dirtbike toy? I have a dirt pile that seemed to have been turned into a sand track, very similar to this one, with more elavation. I've been scooting my 890 in there, as you can imagine it's a bit heavy. it's like 20 minutes away @ 35mph. I'd love something i can yeet into a bush and not worry about too much.
not going to lie, Ive thought about making a trails bike into a street legal one. It's pretty easy in CT.
Interesting video Rich:) How is the tm engine compare to the beta? In terms of power, snap, torque
Tm is really smooth of course lots of engine breaking. Beta is snappy and peppy
One thing I noticed when you were riding the TM. I thought the engine was one gear too low for a 300 4 stroke. I mean, Tork could be a advantage for this kind of terrain and it's like you wanted to use the power more than torque. It's really noticeable when you take the Beta and we hear the engine way smoother ! It's like you were using the TM like a 250 4 stroke. Some people would probably say it's not much different but it is. Especially in the bottom. So, maybe I'm wrong but I ride both, 2 stroke 300 and 4 stroke 250 and I can hear the engine is like running not in the good range. 😶
That TM is an amazing bike but in my opinion there is not much that can compare to a 300 2t.
I own the tm300en es carby wondering why you went the 4t over the Tm 2t ? Good to see the results
You looked faster on the Beta.. Maybe do it again and ride the Tm more, getting use to it, then doing time trail again ??
Could make a difference!!
@@IRCTireUSAMoto Think it may, as you pointed out, engine braking was an issue, you looked way faster into corners on the Beta.. Its one thing i hate about 4T engine braking. havent used one long enough to adjust
This guy is cool! Meet from Siberia)))We love hard-enduro and we dont dancing with bears)))
Great video! What do you use to track your heart rate?
Polar heart rate monitor
Hello Rich ! what did mean the bikes are both KYB ??? we see the Beta has a ZF shock ! doesn't that mean anything ? i remember how these ZF s work, it was not the same as a KYB , but maybe it changed over the years... anyway, your videos are GREAT and really enjoy them ! greetings from Israel !
Beta Race additions have kyb suspension.
@@alexrateliff4784 not this one...!!! :-) he probably mean only the fork, because the TM has it's own made shock also. i saw the 2023 already comes with a KYB shock!
Such a tight track, wonder what lap time you could run on a little 150RB or maybe a 200rr.
Probably pretty close to the same. Would be interesting to try!
Hello can you make a comparison with a Sherco 300 2time
I hope so!!
I'll take the 2 stroke
The message here is, bikes are awesome, pick a color and get out there?
Got that right!
What is that phone holder and app you are using? Thanks!
That’s the My pit board GPS
the suspension on the tm is working better than that beta, get that sorted and you will be much faster on the beta.
I sure felt the opposite
@@IRCTireUSAMoto obviously i cant feel what you feel but the rear of that bike hopped, you could see you had to work harder to ride it. its probably softer feeling plusher but ultimately being more lively. my 2 cents, could be wrong.
Something went wrong with your timing on the 4th and 5th lap on the beta. With a difference of only 0.00.15 in averages I would be concerned that the beta average was actually higher with more reasonable times on your 4th and 5th lap. The screenshot shows your 4th lap was only 10 seconds and your 5th lap was only 55 seconds.
Yes, I added those two times together that creates a 1:05 lap time
Is it just me or does the TM engine sound an awful lot like a yamaha 250f?
I suppose so!
Re heart rate, I’m guessing you wore a watch? You should pair it with an hrm chest strap. Wrist gadgets are horribly inaccurate in Moto sports because of all the bouncing etc they can’t read properly. I burn insane calories according to both my garmin and Apple Watch on my sled, bike or quad with crazy heart rates that I don’t even hit playing hockey (182 and I’m 49). But heart rate is recorded way lower with the strap, including in hockey, running, road bicycle etc (168 bpm or so).
I wore a arm strap it’s incredibly accurate
@@IRCTireUSAMoto cool, didn’t even know those existed. Enjoy that heart rate while you can young man! FYI love the vids, new rider and I’m learning a lot. Cheers
Not criticizing because you are a far better rider than me... however in the video I hardly heard that beta 300 get on the pipe.
The track is so slow it’s hard to get on the pipe. It an Extremely technical turn track.
2t smoke 💨 the 4t ! 👍💪
What are the fastest laps for both?
Sorry, should’ve mentioned that. 1:04:00 on the TM. 1:04:08 on the beta but it was the final lap.
At 33 your maximum heart rate should not exceed 187 bpm (formula is 220 - your age). At the end of the day we all need a 2T and a 4T 🤣
220 minus your age is for people to sit on the couch. 🤣
@@IRCTireUSAMoto True story 🤣
@@IRCTireUSAMoto As an avid runner I can tell you that 220 minus your age has been debunked long ago. The new formula is Go Hard Until You Die.
Hey Rich, did you feel or see from the footage how much better the suspension on the 2t reacted?
Felt a bit more comfortable to me. Bit more planted. There’s actually one part of the track that has a acceleration bump I could rebound over on the beta comfortably.. where as the Tm I couldn’t quite get it. 8:44
that's the opposite of what someone else claimed...
But you had to work harder on the Beta
I felt like it was more, I could push harder and push myself into a higher heart rate. Whereas on the TM any harder I would’ve crashed. That being said, I did crash on the beta. Haha
I think it's the skills. Even if you ride 125cc you will get same result. Skill level is already saturated.
What is that contraption you put on your handlebars??