So for some unknown reason youtube is refusing to put chapters on my videos so here are the timestamps: 0:00 Intro 2:21 Part 1: Making The Highest Grossing Movie 10:36 Part 2: Leo And Kate, Pocahontas And Politics 20:32 Part 3: We Are In The Endgame Now 24:27 Conclusion Hope you guys enjoy ♥
What I actually found a shame in the plot was the clear division of the characters into good and bad. As far as I remember correctly, a situation has arisen in the Distopie the Avatar presents in which the earth's resources are exhausted and this special metal is then mined on Pandorra as a new raw material for energy generation. But this is a fundamental difference to the situation between Indians and European settlers as it occurs at Pocahontas, because here the gold is sought for personal enrichment, not because a shortage would cause serious problems within the European kingdoms. Because of this fact, the conflict between the protagonists and the antagonists could have been made much more intense and morally ambivalent. In Avatar, a permanent lack of resources would lead to poverty, hunger and possibly civil war as well as a collapsing social system. Under this premise, one could have raised the following question: Is the necessity of destroying the environment of a foreign species / culture in order if countless lives are saved and their quality of life is improved as a result? In other words, does the life of many count more than that of a few, as Mr. Spock said in Star Trek: The Wrath of the Kaan? And it may not be morally justifiable but nevertheless necessary due to the situation? I think one could have constructed a perfect moral dilemma here, the responsibility to protect the life, limb and well-being of one's own on the one hand and the injustice to inflict cruel violence on innocent people on the other. The film would have a truly profound message: Look what happens when the population continues to grow: We will soon have to kill each other, not out of hatred, not out of greed for power, but because we ourselves get into it through our greed for prosperity Have forced location into it. Lasts the beginnings ... Instead, the film allows itself a quick, simple and easily understandable judgment for the common citizen, with the evil, exploitative people on the one hand and the Na'vi as simple victims on the other. What many people like is bland in taste, because nobody should not taste it and the larger the mass, the more stupid the person. It is no wonder that Avatar was so successful, because its mediocrity makes it accessible to everyone. The great success of a film can just as well be an indicator of mediocrity as a stroke of genius and quality. Ps: sr for my bad english skills, I'm not a native speaker
@@tgiacin435 considering that perspective it is quite unfair to compare the money earned between endgame and avatar, however wasnt that kind of the whole point of endgame? A historical cinematic event. When will there be cases in which 10 plus movies of triple a budget be dedicated into telling one continuous story?
There are lots of films that had they been released the way films were in the past, would probably have surpassed even GWTW when it comes to highest grossing. Movies simply don't stay in theaters as long as they did in the past, and audiences also have changed and don't look at the theater going experience, or movies the way they did in the past. Comparing grosses of current films ( even films from 20 years ago) to films that have been in the public for over 80 years is like giving someone a 50 lap headstart around the track and then saying they're the best runner of all time.
A fact which, to this day, completely baffles me, not because it's Gone with the Wind, but because I'm just sitting here wondering how so many people went to go the movies smack dab in the Great Depression...
It's pretty much the poster child of style over substance. It looks absolutely amazing, sounds great and was a great cinema experience in 3D, but the story is forgettable and the characters bland.
What makes that so ironic is that Cameron has been purposefuly ignoring the remastering/home video release process of The Abyss and True Lies for so long that their last official releases were on DVD format 20 years ago. If that doesn't tell you how little faith he has in his modern works, I don't know what does.
True. Altho I think the story of Jake trying to get immersed into the culture and learning to love Pandora was a good story, it just needed focus. All I know is that I loved the environment and Navi culture. Also, I've said before, I think the media exploring indigenous peoples and what happened is good, but I'm sick of the ones that are both poorly written and extremely heavy handed with the evil White Colonist stand in. There were so many parts where I wanted to care and couldn't. Idk why it couldn't have been more subtle or even nuanced, like establishing way earlier that earth is sucked dry. Bc I didn't know until the end of the movie why they needed unobtainium. Like, make *some* of the humans come to Pandora to save their people, instead of either good to the Navi or greedy, racist, small brain brutes. Or just disclude a theme and let it be a cool story. Idk
@@marshmallowvampire8503 It's not a terrible story to potentially tell, but it has been told multiple times before and better just about of every time. Dances with Wolves, Pocohontas and Ferngully. So if you want to retell what is effectively a version of those you better do it damn well using very interesting characters with interesting perspectives.
That was all intentional. You often sacrifice story for world building, because you’re limited by the runtime of the film, and have a lot of ground to cover for your viewers. At least the successful films do. And even then you still use short hands and cliches in order to get them understanding the world and setting as quick as possible. The first Matrix had a simple heroic journey narrative in order to focus on world building, and cool kung fu. Jupiter Ascending and Valerian on the other hand, had more complex plots with twists and turns, as well as, a brand new and complex world and mechanics, and were widely unappreciated. You have to focus on one or the other unfortunately when you’re making a film.
@@UnknownGunslinger been saying this for years. Ofc Avatar had a lackluster, straightforward story you could see coming lightyears away. I didnt love it for that, i loved the world and characters. If the sequels are of similar storytelling qualitt, we'll have a problem. But until then, I'm willing to give Cameron and Co the benefit of doubt
What are you talking about? I still remember Avatar perfectly fine. From the moment when they found that boy in the iceberg to the final confrontation between Aang and Ozai. Best animated series ever.
Avatar would have been memorable if it had been a story like Lawrence of Arabia or Dune, where the protagonist tries to help a culture he is absorbed into, but inadvertently becomes an outlet for the imperialism he intends to shield against. THAT would have made for a memorable story.
@@bighand1530 Please don't. My disappointment is a deep well that becomes more so each time I rewatch it in the vain hope of noticing more story filling 2.5 hours vs the reality of the larger amount of filler shots ans scenes we got. Scenes that were significant to the novel were made insignificant more than once for no reason than being different - to the detriment of the story no less. I get that the basic assumption in Hollywood is that most of the domestic US audience are as thick as a brick - but why bother to make Dune if you are going to gut its complexities when you have 2.5 hours to fill them with? Now because Villeneuve is such a stubborn cunt about extended cuts there is little chance that the problems will ever be amended - at best we might get another miniseries adaptation in 10-20 years with some luck.
@@mnomadvfx you're like the only one who's crying about the new dune movie. Dune (2021) is an awesome movie that many people consider to be a very accurate depiction of the story the film was based on. Just because you, personally, dislike it for nitpicks doesn't mean the movie is bad. If you think something better will come then you might as well wait in a cave for years then because the film that released is the best thing we got.
True. Altho I think the story of Jake trying to get immersed into the culture and learning to love Pandora was a good story, it just needed more focus, and a less shallow moral. All I know is that I loved the environment and the culture, but I didn't have deep emotions for the Navi's home being bombed. Tbh, I got more Dances with Wolves vibes more than I did Pocahontas, bc unlike John Smith, Jake and Dunbar actually get to know the people instead of just one, and the have their daily report that they do.
Also, I think what really could've been done better is the White Colonist metaphor. I've said before, I think the media exploring indigenous peoples and what happened is good, but I'm sick of the ones that are both poorly written and on the nose. There were so many parts where I wanted to care and couldn't. Idk why it couldn't have been more subtle or even nuanced, like it being established way earlier that earth is sucked dry. Bc I didn't know until the end of the movie why they needed unobtainium. Like, make *some* of the humans come to Pandora to save their people, instead of either good to the Navi or greedy, racist, small brain brutes. Or just disclude a theme and let it be a cool story. Idk
Wow, over 30 years in the making and they couldn't come up with a more interesting story line? I never hear people talk about Avatar, but when they do, all they do is praise its visuals.
@@deanjustdean7818 It solely depends on when you watched the movie. Back when it released there was nothing as impressive. Now almost everything Hollywood does has the same visual fidelity. The creature design is still cool tho.
"all they do is praise its visuals." There's going to be a lot more of that. It is far beyond the most amazing 3D visuals I have ever seen and it is unlikely that level of detail and immersion will be achieved for another 15 years. I will see it again and again *because* of the visuals; the violence gets tedious after a while, the glorious visuals are like a beautiful sunset; when does that ever get old?
@@jotr.9786 Geez man, don't even put them in the same conversation. Avatar cost over $200 million to make and was a CGI fest that relied the novelty of 3D film projection and a mostly plagiarised story/plot (of 2 films, both of which were better than Avatar) to pull people in. 12 Angry Men on the other hand can't have cost much at all beyond the cast and crew salaries, yet it remains a classic of suspenseful legal/court drama films despite its great age and black and white film stock. Classic performances from many good and great actors just using a couple of rooms and a few props to great effect.
Well, that was nostalgic... I actually saw AVATAR about ten times. It used to be my favorite movie, and I considered it to be the best movie ever made (I was very young). I no longer think like that, but it was funny when you started to talk about remembering names, and I realized I remember every single name from the movie, even Neytiri's parents. It's also funny, that after AVATAR, I never declared any movie to be my favorite. Right now I just don't have a favorite. I think I grew somewhat cynical, and it was fun to return to simplier times, even for a split second. The fact is, even though I now see those many flaws in this movie, that I did not acknowledged before, I still think it's a good movie, and I still like it. Especially the romance. It was nothing ground-breaking, clever, or even necessarily, but I think the sheer affection that the actors shown in their characters makes me feel somehow at ease, comfortable, warm... I don't care about this movie, and it's sequels anymore, but if they'll manage to repeat at least that, I think I'll watch it. In the end it's probably just a movie that used to be with me for a good chunk of time, and because of that it'll always be with me. I like AVATAR, and I probably always will.
I don't really blame you for that opinion. I still love it very much. Altho I think the story of Jake trying to get immersed into the culture and learning to love Pandora was a good story, it just needed focus on fleshing out the story. All I know is that I loved the environment and Navi culture. I could go into a long explanation for the hand full of things that bother me but the video mostly speaks for me. ...Aside from one thing: It could have been more subtle or even nuanced, like I didn't know until the end of the movie why that earth was sucked dry and they needed unobtainium. Like, make *some* of the humans come to Pandora to save their people, instead of either good to the Navi or greedy, racist, small brains. Or just disclude a theme and let it be a cool story. Idk
I never got the appeal. Within a year or months, everyone went back to talking about 2001: A Space Odyssey or Blade Runner but never Avatar. My girlfriend at the time referred to it as Planet of the Grapes.
I was pretty young when I watched it, so I think my lack of remembering comes from that. But the one thing I do remember quite vividly was the focus on the visual quality of it. 2 years after the movie's release it was still in theatres, now in some IMAX 3D or something. No marketing talked about its setting or plot, all of it talked about how good it looks. Video games have proven long ago that good graphics don't save a poorly written product.
@@islandboy4445 I mean yeah, but it wouldn't have been in theatres for so long had no one watched it. Otherwise at every point in time before and after, theatres and studios were just braindead and throwing money away by phasing out viewings of movies after a couple weeks.
To put it simply, Avatar is the "Crysis" of the film industry. Not remembered as much as other iconic media, but a monumental technical feat that laid the groundwork for innovation in its respective industry.
I hear this with James Cameron's Avatar a lot and it's getting really tiring. I grew up with Bayformers, and I think the action and VFX in those movies are f*cking awesome as they also innovated the CGI for the robot's especially sense Devastator was really difficult to render. While it sounds like praise; I’m willing to admit that the story just went to absolute shit in the later entries. Surely visual's are nice but some of the time a product can have plenty of negative points that outweigh the positives
@@ambroseburnside1950 I actually agree with this statement as well. The CGI in the first three films still look fantastic in my personal opinion. The only reason why I used the Crysis analogy in this particular instance is because of Avatar's inherently tech-demo-esque nature. It was made for the sole purpose of pushing CGI to it's limits at the time, whereas the Bayformers movies were made to be stupid fun popcorn movies with the added bonus of having amazing CGI. That being said, I don't recall Avatar ever having to deal with render farms melting down like what happened with Revenge of the Fallen. Definitely something worth noting 😂
I like the term “All fur coat and no trousers,” to describe Avatar, it’s very pretty, but it isn’t really substantial, think about Jurassic Park, that movie also looks great but the story and writing was strong enough to make it stick with people, the special effects were the glue holding the model airplane together, but when a story is just used to show off some pretty effects then your grinding up the model airplane to beef up the glue. And the only reason I think about it is it made talking about Avatar the Last Airbender really annoying because it shares a title, so we have to call it ATLAB or something and it’s just so inconvenient!
To me, *Avatar* was too generic, and the movies like *Dancing with wolves* or *The last samurai* that share the same concept were more striking and memorables for various reasons.
I remember the plots of Avatar and it’s only because I remember how similar it was to the Disney animation movie Atlantis. They’re basically the same story, one set on a foreign planet and the other set deep under the sea. It’s a classic story. You can put it anywhere, to be honest. And it’s enjoyable enough. Atlantis was my second favorite from Disney. But when it’s repeated without a ton of actual creativity, it’s forgettable. It’s not a crime. It’s entertainment and it doesn’t have to be memorable. Avatar is still better in my opinion than all those repeated Marvel shit. Those “movies” are just playing the audiences like fools.
@@susiewang4749 Fools? They're just cozy movies now. I don't think anybody is being fooled into thinking they're anything groundbreaking. Marvel is just printing money right now since they don't have to try, and they sent off their leads
@@notwise9455 Believe it or not, I’ve actually met people who think Marvel movies are masterpieces. 🤦♀️ And these people think anything more complicated than that are too hard to understand, so they constantly diss other movies for being too hard to understand.
I still remember Avatar. Great movie about the tragic story of Colonel Miles Quaritch, hero of mankind, and how he was betrayed by a turncoat underling.
I think a huge problem, maybe the biggest one, was the title. They should have changed it since you already think of another longer running series when hearing it causing it to not show up first when googeling, searching Fanfics etc. Even in conversations you don't know what they talk about if they don't give more detail. Never underestimate the power of Fanfiction!!! Also: I like the movie. It's nice and all. But let's be real: It's technically just Pocahontas set in space.
"I think a huge problem, maybe the biggest one, was the title." kek same... I remember in late 2009 I was urgent to go the cinema to see the movie (expecting nickelodeon's avatar)... and boi... i get a weird suprise
i mean while no one may remember avatar, it's impact on the film and cgi industry is still very much in people's minds. i still do actually remember avatar and re-watching it after a corridor digital episode made me still appreciate it even if I don't necessarily love it, i still like it and think it's an alright movie. heck titanic is the bigger mystery to me on why it made so much money especially at the time and I barely remember that movie.
Titanic had chic-flick appeal: the love story. So they wanted to watch it. Men wanted to see the ship go down in spectacular fashion. That's why I went. and saw it twice in the theater. Because I went with different groups of friends. I had the same feeling with Pearl Harbor. I wanted to see the spectacle of the "Day of Infamy." and I really liked the Doolittle buildup and raid. But boy did I HATE that love story. So Avatar set up in way to bring in both men and women, for fairly different reasons. But hey, it doubles the audience and makes the money...
I do remember Avatar, and I like it, even to this day, but at the same time I recognize the problem is that it's extremely hollow. The point wasn't to tell a story, especially such a bare bones story, it was to sell an experience of an alien world with alien creatures in 3D, and that's it, but they didn't make it TOO alien that the audience couldn't relate or understand. Personally I enjoy and remember Distrinct 9 a lot more favorably because the characters were done so much better, the effects and the world was fascinating to look into, even if it was just on Earth. I don't think Avatar needs a sequel, but it amazes me that for such a successful film, it's taken them YEARS to make a SINGLE sequel, and it makes me wonder if it's because they realize they can't just do Dances with Wolves or Pocahontas again and get away with it, now we need better characters, a better story, a better world to get invested in. 3D is old news, no one cares anymore, so the experience is gone.
I remember walking out thinking I'd definitely have to see it again in theaters and then just never doing it. Even now, 12 years later I still haven't seen it a 2nd time.
Avatar is not really good or memorable story (basically rehash of Pocahontas, which itself is rehash of something else, IIRC), but great technological achievement.
Agree. I have no idea why it was as successful as it is. Visually spectacular for it's time but boring as hell story. Why they're plans for multiple sequels, I have no clue.
@@mumm-ratheeverliving2288 because of the technological achievement it was "the thing" to see. Unless Cameron manages to bring another technological revolution with the sequels, I also do not see they will be particularly successful
If it's not entertaining, the technology doesn't matter. Good tech only highlights how bad the story is. But garbage sells....if you don't believe it, look at lines at fast food places.
@@langreeves6419 Avatar is still a good popcorn movie, it is not GB2016 bad or Rise of Skywalker incoherent, or something. And back in 2009, the 3D was a massive movie industry revolution. Sure, there was IMAX and such, but it used to be boring documentaries and such. Seeing Avatar in 3D was much more about the experience than the movie.
I love this movie despite its obvious shortcomings. Yeah the story is basic and not complicated, but at the same time it is a story format that has existed for hundreds of years and there is a reason we still use it.
Yea but this was the most vapid telling of that story. It's not that the core of the story was unoriginal, it's that the pieces were one dimensional and boring.
I heard the same commentaries from friends who have seen the film. It seems like J Cameron had a vision and that vision had to be both visually interesting and alien ethos interesting because of all the 'bigger than life explosions and fighting scenes' J Cameron must have decided if he put too many elements or too many cliche dialogue it would dumb down the visuals and ethos of what Pandora is about. This is why the storyline is so simple and yet so familiar, that no matter what year you watch it 2024, 2060, 2070 and on. The story itself will be relatable to future audiences in some way because of the familiarity of the concept put into the movie itself. I still watch 1950s movies, some have great dialogue and slang that we still use today, and it's appealing and humorous. Just like we are today adventurous, funny, a dash of egoistic and cynics, LOL. we are kind, sympathetic, and still a bit too belabouring like I'm doing right now. 😅 I'm working on it.
I was hooked on the world building of Avatar, that I watched the film more than 10 times. I remember all the characters and probably all the dialog, even if I didn't really care about the story, and just wanted to concentrate on the fictional world. The extended edition added scenes which I don't think were actually that necessary, but I enjoyed reading the Pandorapedia in the Ubisoft game of Avatar, which expanded a lot of the lore and technology. I enjoyed the game as well, even if it was mediocre at best. Because, the world building held up well. If they made a documentary on Thanators or the Banshees, I'd watch them too.
I admittedly have never been a fan of Avatar's script, but I do appreciate the world building process put into the development. As a game writer, I've also used this as a great cautionary tale for anyone who gets too sucked into the world building process that they forget the heart of their story. In this case, yes, you can choose to put thousands of hours into building a world and aesthetic, but if you don't end up doing anything with it substantial in your story, then what's the point? At the same time, I can't negate the fact this is an impressive film from a technological standpoint. I also respect James Cameron's creativity and hustle when it comes to learning from each of his films because it's something I heavily relate to as well. There's no doubt he's played an active role in shaping modern cinematography and technology used in film, and it's admirable in a way to mark this film as a milestone for his efforts.
A great video from such a small channel, well structured, argued and concise. Reminds me of EFAP if EFAP wasn't 12 hours long. Honestly just wanted to say keep going you are doing fantastic work and I look forward to seeing more from you in the future. By the way I've never seen Avatar, each time I sat down to watch it I got called away and to this day still haven't seen it. But I will watch a 27 minute video about it.
That's the first time I've seen "EFAP" and "Well structured" in the same sentence. They should not be, efap isn't well structured (nor is it meant to be), it's a live stream. It's just chaos (which is great).
I love the movie. Even after so many years, there's a reason why Avatar is still at a 7.8 on IMDb (even after 1.1MIL+ votes!! :O), 81% on RT and 5/5 on Facebook! I'm still looking forward to the sequels they've announced for several years now....I just hope I'll still be alive by then! ;)
First off, Its okay to like this movie; but there are several 5 star reviews that are word for word the same as the last, and pretty much any review that boasts about the acting, is suspicious at best.
Agreed. Avatar is still an experience like no other. If you're not artistic or imaginative person yourself, you cant see what's so great about Avatar. It's literally the first film where the substance is in the style. But if you dont believe that's possible, you wont like or understand Avatar
The thing about Avatar is.....there's nothing memorable about it besides the tech and visual effects. People still discuss if Jack could fit on the floating wood with Jane, there are scenes from Scarface, Home Alone, American Gangster etc that are memorable and discussed/memed to this day. There isn't a single memorable scene or dialogue in Avatar.
I don't remember Avatar because it had absolutely no substance. It was all flash and visuals. A lot of movies suffer from those same issues today. A lot of flash and pretty visuals, no substance. I can go back and watch movies from the 1940s where you can clearly see the cords being used to "fly" or whatever, but the stories being told were so much better and the characters were fleshed out. A movie that still holds up visually despite being near a century old is The Wizard of Oz. It was a technological marvel for it's time and the story told is absolutely timeless. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (despite it's criticisms) gets chosen to be shown over Charley and the Chocolate Factory again and again because it managed to tell a very timeless story and have pretty decent visuals. If your going to sacrifice story integrity for pretty visuals and flash, then your movie is doomed to become dated. Yeah, it did well in the box office so it did a great job making money, but no one talks about it anymore. The story is so dated and the CGI used will also become dated, though not as quickly as the story.
Avatar is the movie equivalent of a Tech Demo, nothing more. As far as tech demos go, at least Serious Sam got some funny one-liners to make him memorable
Damn, I had no idea that Gollum was hand-drawn in the LOTR trilogy. I could've sworn Peter Jackson and his team helped jump-start motion-capture. For all its narrative faults, we really have Avatar to thank for all the technological advancements in blockbusters today. At this point that's what James Cameron is known for, revolutionizing the cinematic experience, making the prototypes for other directors to use.
I remember seeing this once and thinking it was ok. People just couldn’t handle that I didn’t think it was God’s gift to the world of film they would usually lecture me that I didn’t really “get” sci-fi.
I saw the movie and seriously just thought '3d Ferngully.' I thought it was just another boring, save-the-planet-save-the-trees movie. Interesting that everyone who praised it only saw it once. I specifically remember waiting for three hours for something incredible to happen and it never did. Saw it in a 3d IMAX theater and regretted paying as much as I did. It was also the last time I trusted reviews from critics and people I know. It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great. It was mediocre and too long. And I like long movies. (LotR extended cut is one of my favorite things to watch) I mean, it's great that all that tech came from it...but that movie...meh.
I love your videos! You gained credibility with me from your videos that make fun of TROS 😂 Then your video about Rey went hard with the facts. Your point that Rey is not a good "strong female lead" she is just a female playing a strong male lead. 🔥🔥🔥 Also, as soon as this video started I thought, "she better say "soooo..." To start this video off otherwise I will be low key disappointed" And I was not disappointed! And I am actually high key hyped. And in this video, talking about the difference it makes for relationships to reveal more about the story or detract from the story is really interesting. I think I am still digesting this video, I will prolly come up with more interesting points later. Sorry for the long comment, but your videos are great and you should keep making them! Like legit, I feel like you either have more talent than most video essay people, or you just actually put a lot of thought into your videos. It seems like I leave watching your videos and I have something my brain has to chew on for "an hour, a good hour" (name that quote if you can, lol it is harder when it is just written as text.) Anyways, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite youtubers! Keep it up!
Everybody loved Avatar when it came out. The reason it doesn’t have cultural cachet is that billions of dollars haven’t been spent advertising it at us, unlike Star Wars etc. Once the ramp-up to the Avatar sequels gets underway, we will suddenly start to mysteriously remember Avatar.
I've talked to people who talk about how they were never impressed by it and didn't like it when it came out, and I just stood/sat there thinking, "You literally described it as 'brilliant' after we walked out of the cinema together, or talked about how amazing it was."
I loved AVATAR when it came out in 2009,still think it's a good film now.Liked the main characters a lot,musical score was GREAT.Still listen to the sound track today,occasional watch the movie if I'm in the mood.It still entertains me.I have no major issues with it now nor when I first watched it in 2009.It's not a perfect film,but,it's a perfectly entertaining film to me and that's all that counts.😊😊
Avatar was way overrated. Gorgeous visuals, yes I agree. But bland storytelling. Want something that's a combination of both great visuals and storyline? The Lord of the Rings trilogy. Now THAT is a cinematic masterpiece
I just rewatched it the other day after watching another of Cameron’s films “Titanic” I love them both. My dad took me to see Avatar as he loved science fiction films, he has passed away now so the film holds a special nostalgia and good memory of spending a evening in the theater with my dad
I love how well you discuss your points, makes your videos such a joy to watch always... But i still will always *love* avatar, no matter what problems it has :)
Bro this is the top selling movie i was bored in the first 10 min i dont know if its based on a book or a old tv show why was it so popular if its so great why cant people tell me the plot without it sounding like a meme
@@hound6171 People got depressed after leaving the theater, and having to return to our boring ugly earth, that has absolutely nothing beautiful about it.
24:06 Ohhh! My mom made us watch that movie a couple years ago and I was honestly surprised by how GOOD it was for taking place in only ONE room! I mean, it was awesome!
There is a big difference between "being inspired" and having basically the same plot. Do we have a non-LOTR fantasy movie about small people being recruited by a wizard to carry a thingy into a place of its creation to kill the bad guy (tm) while the rest of a world fights for survival? Avatar could go places. Avatar could be thought provoking. But instead it was a heavy handed message with a plot I have seen plenty of time on my VHS tape and, most importantly, there is no fun song about digging for gold!
Whenever being compared to Avatar, people always try to put down Endgame by saying "only because it's a 10 years build up", while forgetting Avatar was so huge "simply because people wanted to watch a 3D film". And if achieving 3D movie effect isn't something effortless or dismissible, then neither is constructing a massive story that took years of build up and still kept millions of audiences interested until the end. And rest assured audiences were very excited to find out how the story would be told this time and not simply there to see how things end ('cause everyone knew it wasn't really the end). So if people went to watch Endgame for its story and Avatar only for its effect, I don't see how the less deserving argument can be made.
Watching the film was like listening to a 3-hour lecture on the evils of colonialism/capitalism. The messaging and symbolism was so over-the-top I was rolling my eyes. “Parker Selfridge” greedily twirling his mustache about “unobtainium” and saying “They’re only goddamned trees!” With a wicked smirk…Lang’s corporate character a reincarnation of confederate Stonewall Jackson…machines toppling trees while natives (“Na’vi”…get it?) look on in horror…USB ports/tails for blue cat-ppl and other creatures… I don’t mind moralizing stories to send a message, but this was so bad I was cringing.
This is a fantastic video and you raise some valid points. However, I would have to disagree with you on the point of saying that the failure of the script didn't work in the long run. For starters, the obvious 2.8 billion dollars at the box office and the number one film of all time, and a theme park would say otherwise. And now Cameron has 4 sequels on the way, so all in all, it looks like it worked out pretty well for him. Now look, while I agree that the story isn't all that it's cracked up to be, I always considered it a genius move on Cameron's part to make a very simple, very familiar story to go with the state-of-the-art visuals. The amount of work and money put into making Pandora a reality is so significantly high, it would have been foolish to make it a story were only a fraction of the world's population could understand or enjoy. The film is the very definition of a crowd-pleaser and a four-quadrant film. This film is exactly what the art form of cinema was created for. It's the natural evolution of the early days of cinema with films like A Trip to the Moon. When the world is ready to accept high concept, visually impressive films, trust me, Cameron will deliver that. Just look at the Abyss to check out his pedigree. We may get this with the Avatar sequels or we may get another beautifully made film with an easily digestible story. Bbut what will be guaranteed is that we will all have a great time with a Cameron movie. If history has taught us anything, never bet against that man.
I mean if money is your only measure of success, maybe. This movie was pushed as being an instant classic, a cornerstone of cinematic history that would be talked about for decades to come, but it's just straight-up not true. Outside of videos like this, people barely even remember this movie EXISTED. Honestly I feel like Cameron cashed in his reputation to get those numbers, and I don't know if he can do it again unless the next movie is actually as phenomenal as this one was supposed to be. I watched the original Avatar twice, but I won't be paying any attention to the sequels. If there's enough people like me out there, they aren't going to do anywhere near as well. The novelty of it really only works once, and just because a studio greenlit them doesn't mean much; studios make terrible decisions all the time.
@@ZeroKitsune that's just not true at all. It's been over a decade and people still talk about Avatar, even outside of videos like this. It revolutionized cinema with the introduction of the virtual camera as well as many other innovations that people don't talk about, but are used in films today. Cameron has always made crowd pleasing film regardless of what genre he worked in. Avatar was far from a cash in. That film took 10 years to make. And these new ones took just as long if not longer to make. Cameron is in masterclass of very few filmmakers.
Avatar to me is very much like Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings movies, but with no source material (let alone one of the greatest works of fiction ever…), so while the production effort was monumental and technically groundbreaking, its story lacked soul and when you look past the Ooh Ahh Pretty, all you have a sludge of Hollywood cliches and cheap political messaging.
No one's favourite? Me and my brother loved this movie and it ruled the box office for quite some time Overall great video so far Can't wait for the sequel to this masterpiece
I think it's just sarcasm. Of course it's a lot of people's favorite movie and even just a movie that a lot of people like, at the very least. I love the movie too. It's just that it did receive a lot of flak back in the day for some very valid flaws in the movie. But either way, it's liked by a lot nonetheless. Even after so many years, there's a reason why it's still sitting at a 7.8 on IMDb after 1.1MIL+ votes, 81% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 5/5 on Facebook! ;)
"Insignificant pieces of the overall grand story" and yet we follow those two for 3 hours. Titanic is a trash romance movie, but the movie is intense while the ship is actually sinking.
If you think Titanic is a trash movie, you’re really not paying attention. Give it another shot in a few years and try to watch without preconceived notions.
I like the movie. Still watch it from time to time. Why does everyone think spectacle isn't worth reliving? A roller coaster ride doesn't have any substance but I still wanna experience it again and again. I guess, it all comes down to personal preference.
Avatar was the best movie experience I’ve ever had in my life. Sure the plot and story wasn’t but the experience was. I was so high when seeing it with my ex and cousin, the flying part in 3d was so amazing I remember.
I’ve never seen Titanic or Avatar and just now realized they are both James Cameron movies. 🤷 Great video….I agree the script is why Avatar was so forgettable….thank you 🤘
@@datzfatz2368 I’ve seen reviews, clips and read a plot summary …it just doesn’t interest me. I decided this awhile ago before I ever watched this video 🤷 Thanks for asking for clarification!
Everyone forgot about it because selling point of the movie at the time was that it was a new technical gimmick. It was considered breaking because of it not the movie itself that was more then mediocre. Even back then it looked just like a stupid cartoon to me. Watched it at home once and was bored AF. But then again I wasn't 12.
There's something... homey about your channel, Nutsa. You always approach topics from angles I just hadn't thought to, and it makes your thoughts and discussions fascinating. Plus the (and I'm saying this term lovingly) kind of low-ish quality microphone brings me back to the era of older youtube videos. The slower-paced edits (typically well done and tasteful when they do happen) also really sets you apart from the homogenized script layouts of most youtube diatribes these days. Not that I dislike other videos, it's just that your own videos have a very unique thumbprint, which I appreciate. It's clear that you rely on your writing and points to make the videos work, which is the kind of quality I live for. I think I only really get that nostalgic, "home grown" feeling from this channel and Noah Caldwell-Gervais. It's a good niche to fill.
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 I was in my teens when it came out, But still freaked me out ! My first names Andy! The day I find the Kandarian Dagger is the day that dolls dead! 😉
It was the definition of mediocrity. Especially considering the director. The story was unoriginal, the script was average, the characters were forgettable, the acting average. The “native” blue cat people was done already in FFX back in 2001, the cowboys vs Indian ( corporation/military vs technologically disadvantaged natives) story has been told a hundred times, the world was essentially a blown up rainforest in neon. Even when it first came out I didn’t get the hype other then It was a James Cameron film. But he, not unlike Steven Spielberg, are past their prime. It being shot in TRUE 3D which was inconsequential. 3D is one of the biggest gimmicks in movies that resurfaces every 20 years or so but never sticks.
. . . Because it was underwhelming with a lot of flash, but zero substance other than, "Man is Evil" - Fern Gully beat it to the punch on that "message." And Fern Gully was better.
I personally loved every aspect of this movie, and it's still in my top 5 to date. You make well-articulated points, I just largely disagree, especially with the claim that the movie had a bad script. My perception was that the dialogue felt very real, especially given the out-of-the-box premise of this movie. I also think the symbolism laced throughout didn't distract from the novelty of the world at all. And, given that humans aren't the best at learning from our mistakes, I don't think it seemed forced at all to carry heavy influence from colonial history given that it's set as another colonial effort in the future. But that's just me.
@@Grizazzle lots of things without imagination are still good; the incredibles for instance. Its an average superhero movie, but people ate it up as if it were the best thing since sliced bread.
I must agree, I cannot help but me amazed at the world this story created and the passionate work that went into making the film. I still rewatch it now and then and as someone with plenty of native ancestry, it really is a conundrum with the movie's connection to my people's past and how well it executed its message. Anyways, great video!🙌🙌
Truly, story is not original anyhow. If u even forget Pocahontas comparison, there are plethora of movies with oppressor soldier changing side to help oppressed. The lack of originality is a long standing problem in Hollywood I guess. In the last decade only "Edge of tomorrow" comes to my mind as a good original scifi movie. Nevertheles, plot was decent for Avatar to enjoy the movie great deal for couple of screening, despite of some glaring stereotypes, scientific foolishness and military silliness. at last, may be it is me and can be ignored safely, shaky
I think people want other people to believe that they do t remember this movie. Why? I have no idea. Avatar was an impressive movie. It was wholly original, pushed new ground in terms of movie-making, and it had a great message. I certainly remember a lot about this movie, and I enjoy rewatching it from time to time. The reason it doesn’t get talked about more is because Marvel stormed the stage immediately after Avatar was released, and every manchild nerd came out of the woodwork, creaming their pants in the process.
For the whole endgame vs avatar debate, I think if we look at it objectively (as in remove our personal bias from the equation) Avatar probably has the better plot. Now that's more of criticism for Endgame than it is praise for Avatar, but it's important to realize that endgame is quite literally carried by what came before it, some may argue that this is true for all of the MCU movies but Infinity war can stand on its own, it won't hit as hard as it could but it's still going to be a good movie. Now endgame on the other hand can not stand on its own nor can it stand with just infinity war. You need to be attached to these characters for the movie to work, otherwise you'll be too busy noticing how things don't really make sense or how everything is reaaaally contrived or how the time travel doesn't make sense and so on. It's both a shame because I wish endgame had a better story than Avatar and a testament to how good of a formula marvel stumbled upon with their MCU (though that's most likely not going to be true anymore given the general quality of their recent movies). In any case Avatar is most likely forgettable just because it's a character-driven story in a movie where every character is forgettable. The main character is quite bland, the lead female is just kind of there, the antagonist is generic military dude n°12313213. Like personally the only thing I could tell you about these characters if I hadn't watched the movie recently would be "The villain has a cool scar on his face and the main character is in a wheelchair".
Calling avatar dances with wolves in space is vastly misunderstanding the themes that it’s trying to explore. The concept of becoming one of the Navi is far more important than the Native American parallel. It’s about how all conscious beings in the universe are linked and this planet happens to be the only one to truly immerse intelligence with our natural world whereas us humans, who should be able to do the exact same thing in the case of Jake, tend to think of ourself as separate from nature. The trees animals and Navi are literally all consciously connected, whereas regular people holdup walls an barriers from ourselves and others and things we deem as threats. Jake becoming a Navi is not a white guy proving he can save everyone, it’s showing that the concept of white and Navi doesn’t matter. What matters is consciousness and how we use it. If Jake was a black guy I think people would easier understand it’s themes cause honestly avatar is some grade a science fiction when viewed under a psychadelic type of lense.
Agreed. It's still one of the greatest cinematic achievements since it's still the greatest 3D movie ever made. And it's one of the best examples of substance in the style
Was the answer because 4 out 5 members of my family that went to watch it fell asleep within the first ten minutes? If not, I gotta call BS. That was an expensive nap.
The main reason you can't remember any of the names from 12 Angry Men is because they never, ever give out their names (with two exceptions, at the very, very end). And that's kind of one of the points of the movie. Their names are unimportant. They're jurors #1-12, nothing more (in this context).
I never regretted seeing Avatar in 3D, it's still one of the best looking 3D films I've ever seen, but the film itself is pretty bad, I've no desire to ever rewatch it, and I don't own a copy of it. I don't think it's that nobody remembers it, it's just that in hindsight most people have realized that other than the innovations in CGI there's nothing else to recommend it. Hopefully the sequels will be much better. Thinking about it now though, having an copy of Avatar might be extremely educational for the BTS and extras on the making of it for any aspiring filmmaker, because every aspect of this film (even the story) was calculated to appeal to a mass audience.
I'm just going to put this out there since it seems to be so rare: I absolutely remember Avatar. In fact it is one of my all-time favourite films and it was very significant in my upbringing.
I've never understood the hype behind this movie other than the behind the scenes technology. I was very underwhelmed considering all the praise it got. Totally forgettable for me.
@@d3l3tes00n Agreed. I remember thinking it felt like a Captain Planet episode with a romance stuck in with how one-dimensional most of the characters were, ESPECIALLY the villain, Sgt Naturekiller or whatever his name was.
I do remember Avatar pretty well. Though to be fair I saw it in theatre three times. Not because I loved it that much but because I was invited to see it by three different people and I was too polite to say no.
I like the part of the movie where the main lead tame a bigger pet and it just wows the whole blue people, good memories from the past. Kinda forget about everything else though
When this movie came out all my friends called it the greatest movie ever. I thought it had great visuals and great worldbuilding but subpar story and overwrought political messaging. yet out of that friend group I was the only one to buy the movie and watched it as recently as last year still enjoying it. They have seemingly forgotten the movie existed.
Agreed, the story is still too generic for me to call it a good movie, but it was a visual treat. I guess it was supposed to just be an experiment in the first place, and as far as experiments go I have to give the film makers a lot of credit for the risks that they managed to pull off.
People compare it to nowadays standards, which is totally unfair. If Avatar would come out today, in it´s exact form like in 2009, it would bomb for sure. But back then it was just visually mindblowing and makes total sense why it was such a big hit. I guess that the studios pressured Cameron to come up with so many technical results, before that they even started shooting, that he simply didn´t have time to write a good script. But just imagine how much of a masterpiece this movie would be, if the story would be great.
The real problem with the movie......you can only experience it in a movie theatre. There's two sets of people who saw Avatar. Ones in 3D theatres and those who saw it somewhere else. Those who were initially amazed by it saw it in theatres ....and those who immediately picked it apart for all its flaws.....saw it somewhere else. Once it wasnt in theatres anymore even those that LOVED it were forced to watch it on other mediums and without the hUGE 3D screen where you are sucked into the world Avatar created it loses ability to amaze.
People saying that they have issues with the plot because it SOOOOO unoriginal, yet most superhero films basically have the same plot and yet the are successfull...
I remember it, and I used to love it very much, for one simple reason: it happened to be the very first movie I watched when I was small. It impressed me so much, and still does even if not I see the problems with its plot and characters -- the world looked and still looks so real. I watched it quite a few times, it has become somewhat of a comfort film for me, and sometimes we re-watch it together with my mom, as we did more than ten years ago for the first time.
I own this movie cuz me and my mom love movies, and this was back when everyone didn’t stream most stuff now, it’s more of and experience when u first see it and unless u watch a bunch u probably won’t remember it, it’s long, maybe to some it doesn’t have a captivating story, I personally disagree, but it’s gotta a lot of stuff chucked in there, and that’s not always good, and I do agree that just cuz it looks cool doesn’t really mean ppl r gonna stay interested the whole time I do remember the movie more as I got older, when I first saw it I was young, and didn’t really understand what I was watching at the time, it was long, and honestly quite weird to me, but as I’ve gotten older I appreciate movies more cuz I can understand better than when I was young, so I rewatch movies a lot, just understanding it better I was able to enjoy it more, I love the two leads, there love story I actually thought was very cute, I like the ending when they say they see each other, it does look really nice too, I was enjoying the look of it when I was young as well, and honestly I was probably one of the few ppl that remembered avatar when Disney made the theme park 😂, but I own this movie and have watched it a lot over the years, I really enjoy the movie now, I can spot the problems it has, I can spot tons of problems in movies that I love and hate alike, cuz nothing is perfect, but I personally really liked the movie, it’s kind of a childhood movie for me, something I understood better when I got older that completely went over my head as a kid
I still like this movie. And I saw it twice in theaters. Once in 3D. Can’t wait to see the next movie next year. Underwater recording. Cameron is trying to break barriers again.
No one went to see Avatar for the story. It was ALL about the massive leap forward in VFX. I was in college at the time (Actually taking a VFX class. We talked about going to see the movie as a field trip.), so the memories are pretty clear. You HAD to see it in then-innovative 3D ($$) and you HAD TO see it in Imax ($$$$), easily tripling the cost of a ticket. The story and characters were an afterthought. (Also, as a graphic designer I _do_ care that they use Papyrus as both the logo and subtitles. And the reason you don’t remember the names of the characters from 12 Angry Men is that they purposely didn’t have any, using juror numbers until the last shot of the film.)
Very well thought out and researched. I always said, with the hundreds of millions of dollars he spent, all the talent he gathered around him, the sheer innovation that had to happen in order to film and produce this movie...why did he only pay the script writer $25? You are right, it tried to simply do to much, and like so many movies....they forget the entire reason people go to movies...for a good story.
So for some unknown reason youtube is refusing to put chapters on my videos so here are the timestamps:
0:00 Intro
2:21 Part 1: Making The Highest Grossing Movie
10:36 Part 2: Leo And Kate, Pocahontas And Politics
20:32 Part 3: We Are In The Endgame Now
24:27 Conclusion
Hope you guys enjoy ♥
Thanks chief
What I actually found a shame in the plot was the clear division of the characters into good and bad. As far as I remember correctly, a situation has arisen in the Distopie the Avatar presents in which the earth's resources are exhausted and this special metal is then mined on Pandorra as a new raw material for energy generation. But this is a fundamental difference to the situation between Indians and European settlers as it occurs at Pocahontas, because here the gold is sought for personal enrichment, not because a shortage would cause serious problems within the European kingdoms. Because of this fact, the conflict between the protagonists and the antagonists could have been made much more intense and morally ambivalent. In Avatar, a permanent lack of resources would lead to poverty, hunger and possibly civil war as well as a collapsing social system. Under this premise, one could have raised the following question: Is the necessity of destroying the environment of a foreign species / culture in order if countless lives are saved and their quality of life is improved as a result? In other words, does the life of many count more than that of a few, as Mr. Spock said in Star Trek: The Wrath of the Kaan? And it may not be morally justifiable but nevertheless necessary due to the situation? I think one could have constructed a perfect moral dilemma here, the responsibility to protect the life, limb and well-being of one's own on the one hand and the injustice to inflict cruel violence on innocent people on the other. The film would have a truly profound message: Look what happens when the population continues to grow: We will soon have to kill each other, not out of hatred, not out of greed for power, but because we ourselves get into it through our greed for prosperity Have forced location into it. Lasts the beginnings ... Instead, the film allows itself a quick, simple and easily understandable judgment for the common citizen, with the evil, exploitative people on the one hand and the Na'vi as simple victims on the other. What many people like is bland in taste, because nobody should not taste it and the larger the mass, the more stupid the person. It is no wonder that Avatar was so successful, because its mediocrity makes it accessible to everyone. The great success of a film can just as well be an indicator of mediocrity as a stroke of genius and quality.
Ps: sr for my bad english skills, I'm not a native speaker
@@Shutthefuckupatthepresentation I see no problem with your English.
@@MrX-pc5xn Then Google Translate is better than I thought 😂
@@Shutthefuckupatthepresentation its more sophisticated than mine, and I've spoken it for awhile.
I remember watching the movie and loving it. And then feeling absolutely zero desire to ever watch it again.
Is there something wrong with your brain or what
@@myk1172 I'm fine, but are you?
@@MrMisanthrope84 yes, but are you?
@@myk1172 are you The Riddler?
@@MrMisanthrope84 Riddle me this? Is something wrong with your brain?
fun fact: Avatar or Endgame are only the highest grossing movies ... when not being adjusted for inflation. Otherwise it's still Gone With The Wind ;)
At least avatar was more enjoyable and didn’t have to rely on 10 years of movies leading up to a 3 hour long snooze fest
@@tgiacin435 considering that perspective it is quite unfair to compare the money earned between endgame and avatar, however wasnt that kind of the whole point of endgame? A historical cinematic event. When will there be cases in which 10 plus movies of triple a budget be dedicated into telling one continuous story?
There are lots of films that had they been released the way films were in the past, would probably have surpassed even GWTW when it comes to highest grossing.
Movies simply don't stay in theaters as long as they did in the past, and audiences also have changed and don't look at the theater going experience, or movies the way they did in the past.
Comparing grosses of current films ( even films from 20 years ago) to films that have been in the public for over 80 years is like giving someone a 50 lap headstart around the track and then saying they're the best runner of all time.
@@tgiacin435 Avatar wasn't enjoyable
A fact which, to this day, completely baffles me, not because it's Gone with the Wind, but because I'm just sitting here wondering how so many people went to go the movies smack dab in the Great Depression...
It's pretty much the poster child of style over substance. It looks absolutely amazing, sounds great and was a great cinema experience in 3D, but the story is forgettable and the characters bland.
What makes that so ironic is that Cameron has been purposefuly ignoring the remastering/home video release process of The Abyss and True Lies for so long that their last official releases were on DVD format 20 years ago.
If that doesn't tell you how little faith he has in his modern works, I don't know what does.
Exactly this 👌
True.
Altho I think the story of Jake trying to get immersed into the culture and learning to love Pandora was a good story, it just needed focus. All I know is that I loved the environment and Navi culture.
Also, I've said before, I think the media exploring indigenous peoples and what happened is good, but I'm sick of the ones that are both poorly written and extremely heavy handed with the evil White Colonist stand in.
There were so many parts where I wanted to care and couldn't. Idk why it couldn't have been more subtle or even nuanced, like establishing way earlier that earth is sucked dry. Bc I didn't know until the end of the movie why they needed unobtainium. Like, make *some* of the humans come to Pandora to save their people, instead of either good to the Navi or greedy, racist, small brain brutes.
Or just disclude a theme and let it be a cool story. Idk
@@marshmallowvampire8503 It's not a terrible story to potentially tell, but it has been told multiple times before and better just about of every time. Dances with Wolves, Pocohontas and Ferngully. So if you want to retell what is effectively a version of those you better do it damn well using very interesting characters with interesting perspectives.
Wrong. You know nothing. Avatar is the purest and simplest example of substance completely in the style
Seems like a fantastic world that had a subpar story.
The setting was fascinating, and the story managed to be a rip off of both The Smurfs and Pocahontas.
That was all intentional. You often sacrifice story for world building, because you’re limited by the runtime of the film, and have a lot of ground to cover for your viewers. At least the successful films do. And even then you still use short hands and cliches in order to get them understanding the world and setting as quick as possible.
The first Matrix had a simple heroic journey narrative in order to focus on world building, and cool kung fu. Jupiter Ascending and Valerian on the other hand, had more complex plots with twists and turns, as well as, a brand new and complex world and mechanics, and were widely unappreciated. You have to focus on one or the other unfortunately when you’re making a film.
@@UnknownGunslinger Yeah, that's one of the problems with a movies short run time, there is only so much you can fit in.
subpar, I found it generic.
@@UnknownGunslinger been saying this for years. Ofc Avatar had a lackluster, straightforward story you could see coming lightyears away. I didnt love it for that, i loved the world and characters. If the sequels are of similar storytelling qualitt, we'll have a problem. But until then, I'm willing to give Cameron and Co the benefit of doubt
What are you talking about? I still remember Avatar perfectly fine.
From the moment when they found that boy in the iceberg to the final confrontation between Aang and Ozai. Best animated series ever.
This‼️
💯😩😩🤣🤣🤣🤣
Best. Animated. Series. Ever.
Avatar would have been memorable if it had been a story like Lawrence of Arabia or Dune, where the protagonist tries to help a culture he is absorbed into, but inadvertently becomes an outlet for the imperialism he intends to shield against. THAT would have made for a memorable story.
Speaking of Dune.
@@bighand1530 Please don't.
My disappointment is a deep well that becomes more so each time I rewatch it in the vain hope of noticing more story filling 2.5 hours vs the reality of the larger amount of filler shots ans scenes we got.
Scenes that were significant to the novel were made insignificant more than once for no reason than being different - to the detriment of the story no less.
I get that the basic assumption in Hollywood is that most of the domestic US audience are as thick as a brick - but why bother to make Dune if you are going to gut its complexities when you have 2.5 hours to fill them with?
Now because Villeneuve is such a stubborn cunt about extended cuts there is little chance that the problems will ever be amended - at best we might get another miniseries adaptation in 10-20 years with some luck.
@@mnomadvfx you're like the only one who's crying about the new dune movie. Dune (2021) is an awesome movie that many people consider to be a very accurate depiction of the story the film was based on.
Just because you, personally, dislike it for nitpicks doesn't mean the movie is bad. If you think something better will come then you might as well wait in a cave for years then because the film that released is the best thing we got.
True.
Altho I think the story of Jake trying to get immersed into the culture and learning to love Pandora was a good story, it just needed more focus, and a less shallow moral. All I know is that I loved the environment and the culture, but I didn't have deep emotions for the Navi's home being bombed.
Tbh, I got more Dances with Wolves vibes more than I did Pocahontas, bc unlike John Smith, Jake and Dunbar actually get to know the people instead of just one, and the have their daily report that they do.
Also, I think what really could've been done better is the White Colonist metaphor. I've said before, I think the media exploring indigenous peoples and what happened is good, but I'm sick of the ones that are both poorly written and on the nose.
There were so many parts where I wanted to care and couldn't. Idk why it couldn't have been more subtle or even nuanced, like it being established way earlier that earth is sucked dry. Bc I didn't know until the end of the movie why they needed unobtainium. Like, make *some* of the humans come to Pandora to save their people, instead of either good to the Navi or greedy, racist, small brain brutes.
Or just disclude a theme and let it be a cool story. Idk
Wow, over 30 years in the making and they couldn't come up with a more interesting story line? I never hear people talk about Avatar, but when they do, all they do is praise its visuals.
@@deanjustdean7818 It solely depends on when you watched the movie. Back when it released there was nothing as impressive. Now almost everything Hollywood does has the same visual fidelity.
The creature design is still cool tho.
Well, for the 1st movie its not bad, cant wait for the sequels
@@deanjustdean7818 so you mean mad max is REALASTIC what the fuck
"all they do is praise its visuals."
There's going to be a lot more of that. It is far beyond the most amazing 3D visuals I have ever seen and it is unlikely that level of detail and immersion will be achieved for another 15 years. I will see it again and again *because* of the visuals; the violence gets tedious after a while, the glorious visuals are like a beautiful sunset; when does that ever get old?
All of the characters in 12 Angry Men are unnamed, except for two characters who exchange names at the end.
They had numbers.
...I'm sure I can remember the number of the Italian. Give me a sec.
Also a better movie than avatar. lol
@@jotr.9786 Geez man, don't even put them in the same conversation.
Avatar cost over $200 million to make and was a CGI fest that relied the novelty of 3D film projection and a mostly plagiarised story/plot (of 2 films, both of which were better than Avatar) to pull people in.
12 Angry Men on the other hand can't have cost much at all beyond the cast and crew salaries, yet it remains a classic of suspenseful legal/court drama films despite its great age and black and white film stock.
Classic performances from many good and great actors just using a couple of rooms and a few props to great effect.
@@mnomadvfx 3 films, don't forget Princess Mononoke
@@jotr.9786 certainly a better love story than twilight
Well, that was nostalgic...
I actually saw AVATAR about ten times. It used to be my favorite movie, and I considered it to be the best movie ever made (I was very young). I no longer think like that, but it was funny when you started to talk about remembering names, and I realized I remember every single name from the movie, even Neytiri's parents. It's also funny, that after AVATAR, I never declared any movie to be my favorite. Right now I just don't have a favorite. I think I grew somewhat cynical, and it was fun to return to simplier times, even for a split second.
The fact is, even though I now see those many flaws in this movie, that I did not acknowledged before, I still think it's a good movie, and I still like it. Especially the romance. It was nothing ground-breaking, clever, or even necessarily, but I think the sheer affection that the actors shown in their characters makes me feel somehow at ease, comfortable, warm... I don't care about this movie, and it's sequels anymore, but if they'll manage to repeat at least that, I think I'll watch it.
In the end it's probably just a movie that used to be with me for a good chunk of time, and because of that it'll always be with me. I like AVATAR, and I probably always will.
Same. The world he created is so gorgeous and it looks better than any Marvel movie.
@@chrisbarnett5303 Enternals: What’s up
@@galaxymoonlqght3732 Prometheus : What’s up? Lol that's funny 😉
Took the words right out of me.
I don't really blame you for that opinion. I still love it very much.
Altho I think the story of Jake trying to get immersed into the culture and learning to love Pandora was a good story, it just needed focus on fleshing out the story. All I know is that I loved the environment and Navi culture.
I could go into a long explanation for the hand full of things that bother me but the video mostly speaks for me.
...Aside from one thing: It could have been more subtle or even nuanced, like I didn't know until the end of the movie why that earth was sucked dry and they needed unobtainium. Like, make *some* of the humans come to Pandora to save their people, instead of either good to the Navi or greedy, racist, small brains.
Or just disclude a theme and let it be a cool story. Idk
I never got the appeal. Within a year or months, everyone went back to talking about 2001: A Space Odyssey or Blade Runner but never Avatar.
My girlfriend at the time referred to it as Planet of the Grapes.
did you see it in 3D, that was the game changer, admittedly a short lived one
@@mcbean1 I did see it in 3D. The gimmick chub lasted about 40 minutes.
@@TheJuRK wow you must be fun at parties
@@TheJuRK was the moon landing a bore for you too?
@@mcbean1 the moon landing was one of my first memories--and it was awesome.
I was pretty young when I watched it, so I think my lack of remembering comes from that. But the one thing I do remember quite vividly was the focus on the visual quality of it. 2 years after the movie's release it was still in theatres, now in some IMAX 3D or something. No marketing talked about its setting or plot, all of it talked about how good it looks.
Video games have proven long ago that good graphics don't save a poorly written product.
Live by technological improvements, die by technological improvements. This movie would flop today.
@@PrionicProteins Would it? Given what we've been getting, I think it would be very successful.
I think the fact that it was in theatres so stupid-long contributes to the ridiculous gross that it achieved.
@@islandboy4445 I mean yeah, but it wouldn't have been in theatres for so long had no one watched it. Otherwise at every point in time before and after, theatres and studios were just braindead and throwing money away by phasing out viewings of movies after a couple weeks.
yet both cinema and video games are getting worse and worse
To put it simply, Avatar is the "Crysis" of the film industry. Not remembered as much as other iconic media, but a monumental technical feat that laid the groundwork for innovation in its respective industry.
so does that mean my movie theater can run Crysis?
I hear this with James Cameron's Avatar a lot and it's getting really tiring. I grew up with Bayformers, and I think the action and VFX in those movies are f*cking awesome as they also innovated the CGI for the robot's especially sense Devastator was really difficult to render. While it sounds like praise; I’m willing to admit that the story just went to absolute shit in the later entries. Surely visual's are nice but some of the time a product can have plenty of negative points that outweigh the positives
@@ambroseburnside1950 I actually agree with this statement as well. The CGI in the first three films still look fantastic in my personal opinion.
The only reason why I used the Crysis analogy in this particular instance is because of Avatar's inherently tech-demo-esque nature. It was made for the sole purpose of pushing CGI to it's limits at the time, whereas the Bayformers movies were made to be stupid fun popcorn movies with the added bonus of having amazing CGI.
That being said, I don't recall Avatar ever having to deal with render farms melting down like what happened with Revenge of the Fallen. Definitely something worth noting 😂
I like the term “All fur coat and no trousers,” to describe Avatar, it’s very pretty, but it isn’t really substantial, think about Jurassic Park, that movie also looks great but the story and writing was strong enough to make it stick with people, the special effects were the glue holding the model airplane together, but when a story is just used to show off some pretty effects then your grinding up the model airplane to beef up the glue.
And the only reason I think about it is it made talking about Avatar the Last Airbender really annoying because it shares a title, so we have to call it ATLAB or something and it’s just so inconvenient!
"All fur coat and no knickers" was the Roger Moore variant of that 😂
I literally can't stand Jurassic Park & love Avatar. Can't even stand JP's visuals. It's subjective.
I am loving your videos. You have a style and perspective that is unique and refreshing. Thank you.
Same!
To me, *Avatar* was too generic, and the movies like *Dancing with wolves* or *The last samurai* that share the same concept were more striking and memorables for various reasons.
I remember the plots of Avatar and it’s only because I remember how similar it was to the Disney animation movie Atlantis. They’re basically the same story, one set on a foreign planet and the other set deep under the sea. It’s a classic story. You can put it anywhere, to be honest. And it’s enjoyable enough. Atlantis was my second favorite from Disney. But when it’s repeated without a ton of actual creativity, it’s forgettable. It’s not a crime. It’s entertainment and it doesn’t have to be memorable. Avatar is still better in my opinion than all those repeated Marvel shit. Those “movies” are just playing the audiences like fools.
The Buffalo Hunt scene in Dances With Wolfs, still gives me goosebumps just thinking about it. I've never seen anything on that scale look so real.
now i gotta watch the Last Samerai again
@@susiewang4749 Fools? They're just cozy movies now. I don't think anybody is being fooled into thinking they're anything groundbreaking.
Marvel is just printing money right now since they don't have to try,
and they sent off their leads
@@notwise9455 Believe it or not, I’ve actually met people who think Marvel movies are masterpieces. 🤦♀️ And these people think anything more complicated than that are too hard to understand, so they constantly diss other movies for being too hard to understand.
I still remember Avatar. Great movie about the tragic story of Colonel Miles Quaritch, hero of mankind, and how he was betrayed by a turncoat underling.
hahahaha
😩🤣
I think a huge problem, maybe the biggest one, was the title. They should have changed it since you already think of another longer running series when hearing it causing it to not show up first when googeling, searching Fanfics etc. Even in conversations you don't know what they talk about if they don't give more detail.
Never underestimate the power of Fanfiction!!!
Also:
I like the movie. It's nice and all.
But let's be real:
It's technically just Pocahontas set in space.
"I think a huge problem, maybe the biggest one, was the title."
kek same... I remember in late 2009 I was urgent to go the cinema to see the movie (expecting nickelodeon's avatar)... and boi... i get a weird suprise
I also like the Avatar version “Dances with Smurfs.”
It's the Mighty Ducks all over again; I prefer this over The Avatar movie we did get, haha.
i mean while no one may remember avatar, it's impact on the film and cgi industry is still very much in people's minds. i still do actually remember avatar and re-watching it after a corridor digital episode made me still appreciate it even if I don't necessarily love it, i still like it and think it's an alright movie. heck titanic is the bigger mystery to me on why it made so much money especially at the time and I barely remember that movie.
Agreed🙌🙌🙌
Titanic had chic-flick appeal: the love story. So they wanted to watch it. Men wanted to see the ship go down in spectacular fashion. That's why I went. and saw it twice in the theater. Because I went with different groups of friends. I had the same feeling with Pearl Harbor. I wanted to see the spectacle of the "Day of Infamy." and I really liked the Doolittle buildup and raid. But boy did I HATE that love story. So Avatar set up in way to bring in both men and women, for fairly different reasons. But hey, it doubles the audience and makes the money...
@@jasonkiefer1894 Magic of marketting
Avatar is to film as Crysis is to games.
I do remember Avatar, and I like it, even to this day, but at the same time I recognize the problem is that it's extremely hollow. The point wasn't to tell a story, especially such a bare bones story, it was to sell an experience of an alien world with alien creatures in 3D, and that's it, but they didn't make it TOO alien that the audience couldn't relate or understand. Personally I enjoy and remember Distrinct 9 a lot more favorably because the characters were done so much better, the effects and the world was fascinating to look into, even if it was just on Earth. I don't think Avatar needs a sequel, but it amazes me that for such a successful film, it's taken them YEARS to make a SINGLE sequel, and it makes me wonder if it's because they realize they can't just do Dances with Wolves or Pocahontas again and get away with it, now we need better characters, a better story, a better world to get invested in. 3D is old news, no one cares anymore, so the experience is gone.
That's exactly it, it's more about being immersed in an alien world than a compelling story.
I remember watching it and was like "oh my gosh that's such a cool movie" then never talking about it ever again afterwards.
I remember walking out thinking I'd definitely have to see it again in theaters and then just never doing it. Even now, 12 years later I still haven't seen it a 2nd time.
@@jasonshaneyfelt1039 I guess it was just good in the moment lmao.
can't relate, it was and its still talked as one of the best movies ever made. its just now hated because of its popularity.
Avatar is not really good or memorable story (basically rehash of Pocahontas, which itself is rehash of something else, IIRC), but great technological achievement.
Dances With Wolves, Man Called Horse, Bend Of The River
Agree. I have no idea why it was as successful as it is. Visually spectacular for it's time but boring as hell story. Why they're plans for multiple sequels, I have no clue.
@@mumm-ratheeverliving2288 because of the technological achievement it was "the thing" to see.
Unless Cameron manages to bring another technological revolution with the sequels, I also do not see they will be particularly successful
If it's not entertaining, the technology doesn't matter.
Good tech only highlights how bad the story is.
But garbage sells....if you don't believe it, look at lines at fast food places.
@@langreeves6419 Avatar is still a good popcorn movie, it is not GB2016 bad or Rise of Skywalker incoherent, or something.
And back in 2009, the 3D was a massive movie industry revolution. Sure, there was IMAX and such, but it used to be boring documentaries and such. Seeing Avatar in 3D was much more about the experience than the movie.
I love this movie despite its obvious shortcomings. Yeah the story is basic and not complicated, but at the same time it is a story format that has existed for hundreds of years and there is a reason we still use it.
Yea but this was the most vapid telling of that story.
It's not that the core of the story was unoriginal, it's that the pieces were one dimensional and boring.
But not like it
I heard the same commentaries from friends who have seen the film. It seems like J Cameron had a vision and that vision had to be both visually interesting and alien ethos interesting because of all the 'bigger than life explosions and fighting scenes' J Cameron must have decided if he put too many elements or too many cliche dialogue it would dumb down the visuals and ethos of what Pandora is about. This is why the storyline is so simple and yet so familiar, that no matter what year you watch it 2024, 2060, 2070 and on. The story itself will be relatable to future audiences in some way because of the familiarity of the concept put into the movie itself. I still watch 1950s movies, some have great dialogue and slang that we still use today, and it's appealing and humorous. Just like we are today adventurous, funny, a dash of egoistic and cynics, LOL. we are kind, sympathetic, and still a bit too belabouring like I'm doing right now. 😅 I'm working on it.
Exactly, Star Wars: A New Hope did the same thing! Just the Hero’s journey cut and dry and yet everyone praised it.
The most I remember about this movie is.... it exists. Was it bad? No. Was it good? No, don't think either.
It's a solid 5/10.
I was hooked on the world building of Avatar, that I watched the film more than 10 times. I remember all the characters and probably all the dialog, even if I didn't really care about the story, and just wanted to concentrate on the fictional world. The extended edition added scenes which I don't think were actually that necessary, but I enjoyed reading the Pandorapedia in the Ubisoft game of Avatar, which expanded a lot of the lore and technology. I enjoyed the game as well, even if it was mediocre at best. Because, the world building held up well. If they made a documentary on Thanators or the Banshees, I'd watch them too.
The fictional world is amazing right
Having seen the 3D Avatar Way of Water, it is so far bey
I think that's just you being overly obsessed with a fictional world
@@eliasrodriguez1419 Yes, I am interested in fictional worlds, just as much as the real one. Is that a problem?
>walks into the movie industry
>becomes the highest grossing movie of all time
>makes no sequels
>leaves
>nobody remembers a line of dialogue
That actually says a lot more about audiences, though it makes Cameron in retrospect look like a guy that really knows how to read a room.
Makes no Sequels
Unless
Part 2 : 2022
Part 3 : 2023
Part 4 : 2025
Part 5 : 2026
I admittedly have never been a fan of Avatar's script, but I do appreciate the world building process put into the development. As a game writer, I've also used this as a great cautionary tale for anyone who gets too sucked into the world building process that they forget the heart of their story. In this case, yes, you can choose to put thousands of hours into building a world and aesthetic, but if you don't end up doing anything with it substantial in your story, then what's the point?
At the same time, I can't negate the fact this is an impressive film from a technological standpoint. I also respect James Cameron's creativity and hustle when it comes to learning from each of his films because it's something I heavily relate to as well. There's no doubt he's played an active role in shaping modern cinematography and technology used in film, and it's admirable in a way to mark this film as a milestone for his efforts.
A great video from such a small channel, well structured, argued and concise. Reminds me of EFAP if EFAP wasn't 12 hours long. Honestly just wanted to say keep going you are doing fantastic work and I look forward to seeing more from you in the future. By the way I've never seen Avatar, each time I sat down to watch it I got called away and to this day still haven't seen it. But I will watch a 27 minute video about it.
That's the first time I've seen "EFAP" and "Well structured" in the same sentence. They should not be, efap isn't well structured (nor is it meant to be), it's a live stream. It's just chaos (which is great).
I have now seen Avatar.
I love the movie. Even after so many years, there's a reason why Avatar is still at a 7.8 on IMDb (even after 1.1MIL+ votes!! :O), 81% on RT and 5/5 on Facebook! I'm still looking forward to the sequels they've announced for several years now....I just hope I'll still be alive by then! ;)
Agreed😭
Same, just hope they are good, if not then I’ll just enjoy Barlowe’s creations.
First off, Its okay to like this movie; but there are several 5 star reviews that are word for word the same as the last, and pretty much any review that boasts about the acting, is suspicious at best.
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 You just dont fully understand Avatar
Agreed. Avatar is still an experience like no other. If you're not artistic or imaginative person yourself, you cant see what's so great about Avatar. It's literally the first film where the substance is in the style. But if you dont believe that's possible, you wont like or understand Avatar
The thing about Avatar is.....there's nothing memorable about it besides the tech and visual effects. People still discuss if Jack could fit on the floating wood with Jane, there are scenes from Scarface, Home Alone, American Gangster etc that are memorable and discussed/memed to this day. There isn't a single memorable scene or dialogue in Avatar.
I don't remember Avatar because it had absolutely no substance. It was all flash and visuals. A lot of movies suffer from those same issues today. A lot of flash and pretty visuals, no substance.
I can go back and watch movies from the 1940s where you can clearly see the cords being used to "fly" or whatever, but the stories being told were so much better and the characters were fleshed out.
A movie that still holds up visually despite being near a century old is The Wizard of Oz. It was a technological marvel for it's time and the story told is absolutely timeless. Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory (despite it's criticisms) gets chosen to be shown over Charley and the Chocolate Factory again and again because it managed to tell a very timeless story and have pretty decent visuals.
If your going to sacrifice story integrity for pretty visuals and flash, then your movie is doomed to become dated. Yeah, it did well in the box office so it did a great job making money, but no one talks about it anymore. The story is so dated and the CGI used will also become dated, though not as quickly as the story.
Simpleton Apollo: Stop the bs please, Avatar is juste bad. There's a lot of good movies, no need to go 80 years into the past.
The substance is in the style. The depth of character and story is in every frame. You just have to know where to look for it.
Them!
Why is he blue though
It's a fashion statement.
Avatar is the movie equivalent of a Tech Demo, nothing more.
As far as tech demos go, at least Serious Sam got some funny one-liners to make him memorable
yes
24:15 Also twenty movies with the characters' names as the titles helps in remembering their names.
This is my favourite blue people movie.
I love the smerfs movie, sadly its as forgettable.
Damn, I had no idea that Gollum was hand-drawn in the LOTR trilogy. I could've sworn Peter Jackson and his team helped jump-start motion-capture. For all its narrative faults, we really have Avatar to thank for all the technological advancements in blockbusters today. At this point that's what James Cameron is known for, revolutionizing the cinematic experience, making the prototypes for other directors to use.
His body movements were captured, but animators had to copy Andy Serkis' facial expressions manually
I remember seeing this once and thinking it was ok. People just couldn’t handle that I didn’t think it was God’s gift to the world of film they would usually lecture me that I didn’t really “get” sci-fi.
I saw the movie and seriously just thought '3d Ferngully.' I thought it was just another boring, save-the-planet-save-the-trees movie. Interesting that everyone who praised it only saw it once. I specifically remember waiting for three hours for something incredible to happen and it never did. Saw it in a 3d IMAX theater and regretted paying as much as I did.
It was also the last time I trusted reviews from critics and people I know.
It wasn't horrible, but it wasn't great. It was mediocre and too long. And I like long movies. (LotR extended cut is one of my favorite things to watch)
I mean, it's great that all that tech came from it...but that movie...meh.
I love your videos! You gained credibility with me from your videos that make fun of TROS 😂 Then your video about Rey went hard with the facts. Your point that Rey is not a good "strong female lead" she is just a female playing a strong male lead. 🔥🔥🔥
Also, as soon as this video started I thought, "she better say "soooo..." To start this video off otherwise I will be low key disappointed" And I was not disappointed! And I am actually high key hyped. And in this video, talking about the difference it makes for relationships to reveal more about the story or detract from the story is really interesting. I think I am still digesting this video, I will prolly come up with more interesting points later.
Sorry for the long comment, but your videos are great and you should keep making them! Like legit, I feel like you either have more talent than most video essay people, or you just actually put a lot of thought into your videos. It seems like I leave watching your videos and I have something my brain has to chew on for "an hour, a good hour" (name that quote if you can, lol it is harder when it is just written as text.) Anyways, you are quickly becoming one of my favorite youtubers! Keep it up!
Thank you so, so muchh (and lemme know cuz I can't name it) 🥰🥰
@@Nutsa It's "The Princess Bride" a classic, in my opinion, lol.
Oh, I simply love the way you phrase your cynicism.
"That goddamn mouse..."
Everybody loved Avatar when it came out. The reason it doesn’t have cultural cachet is that billions of dollars haven’t been spent advertising it at us, unlike Star Wars etc.
Once the ramp-up to the Avatar sequels gets underway, we will suddenly start to mysteriously remember Avatar.
I didn’t like Avatar when it came out. the story bored me to death seemed overly redundant and bland
@@freckleKaren impossible
@@MattFreemanPhD :) whatever you say
@@MattFreemanPhD it's a lesser dances with wolves set in space. It's pretty quaint in everything other than it's technically aspects.
I've talked to people who talk about how they were never impressed by it and didn't like it when it came out, and I just stood/sat there thinking, "You literally described it as 'brilliant' after we walked out of the cinema together, or talked about how amazing it was."
I loved AVATAR when it came out in 2009,still think it's a good film now.Liked the main characters a lot,musical score was GREAT.Still listen to the sound track today,occasional watch the movie if I'm in the mood.It still entertains me.I have no major issues with it now nor when I first watched it in 2009.It's not a perfect film,but,it's a perfectly entertaining film to me and that's all that counts.😊😊
I would claim that in 2009-2012, there was an Avatar hype, but that it died down when the sequel never materialized.
Avatar was way overrated. Gorgeous visuals, yes I agree. But bland storytelling.
Want something that's a combination of both great visuals and storyline? The Lord of the Rings trilogy. Now THAT is a cinematic masterpiece
I just rewatched it the other day after watching another of Cameron’s films “Titanic” I love them both. My dad took me to see Avatar as he loved science fiction films, he has passed away now so the film holds a special nostalgia and good memory of spending a evening in the theater with my dad
I love how well you discuss your points, makes your videos such a joy to watch always...
But i still will always *love* avatar, no matter what problems it has :)
Honestly don’t have any interest in watching this movie, but solid vid nonetheless. Keep up the good work you panini ;>
Bro this is the top selling movie i was bored in the first 10 min i dont know if its based on a book or a old tv show why was it so popular if its so great why cant people tell me the plot without it sounding like a meme
@@hound6171 3D!!
@@hound6171 People got depressed after leaving the theater, and having to return to our boring ugly earth, that has absolutely nothing beautiful about it.
@@hound6171 did you see it in the cinema in 3D, if not you missed out on 99% of the greatness
24:06 Ohhh! My mom made us watch that movie a couple years ago and I was honestly surprised by how GOOD it was for taking place in only ONE room! I mean, it was awesome!
Complaining about Avatar being inspired by Pocahontas is like complaining about any fantasy movie ever being inspired by Lord Of The Rings.
Thank you. Such a terrible argument for not liking a movie.
LOTR trilogy still remembered till this day, despite its crazy extension, Avatar it's just Eco propaganda and forgettable characters.
"No, you can't use tropes! It has to have the most original plot ever or it is garbage."
Pretty much. As a European I really didn’t care about Pocahontas, hated the Disney movie, but still love Avatar.
There is a big difference between "being inspired" and having basically the same plot. Do we have a non-LOTR fantasy movie about small people being recruited by a wizard to carry a thingy into a place of its creation to kill the bad guy (tm) while the rest of a world fights for survival? Avatar could go places. Avatar could be thought provoking. But instead it was a heavy handed message with a plot I have seen plenty of time on my VHS tape and, most importantly, there is no fun song about digging for gold!
Whenever being compared to Avatar, people always try to put down Endgame by saying "only because it's a 10 years build up", while forgetting Avatar was so huge "simply because people wanted to watch a 3D film". And if achieving 3D movie effect isn't something effortless or dismissible, then neither is constructing a massive story that took years of build up and still kept millions of audiences interested until the end. And rest assured audiences were very excited to find out how the story would be told this time and not simply there to see how things end ('cause everyone knew it wasn't really the end). So if people went to watch Endgame for its story and Avatar only for its effect, I don't see how the less deserving argument can be made.
Watching the film was like listening to a 3-hour lecture on the evils of colonialism/capitalism. The messaging and symbolism was so over-the-top I was rolling my eyes. “Parker Selfridge” greedily twirling his mustache about “unobtainium” and saying “They’re only goddamned trees!” With a wicked smirk…Lang’s corporate character a reincarnation of confederate Stonewall Jackson…machines toppling trees while natives (“Na’vi”…get it?) look on in horror…USB ports/tails for blue cat-ppl and other creatures… I don’t mind moralizing stories to send a message, but this was so bad I was cringing.
This is a fantastic video and you raise some valid points. However, I would have to disagree with you on the point of saying that the failure of the script didn't work in the long run. For starters, the obvious 2.8 billion dollars at the box office and the number one film of all time, and a theme park would say otherwise. And now Cameron has 4 sequels on the way, so all in all, it looks like it worked out pretty well for him. Now look, while I agree that the story isn't all that it's cracked up to be, I always considered it a genius move on Cameron's part to make a very simple, very familiar story to go with the state-of-the-art visuals. The amount of work and money put into making Pandora a reality is so significantly high, it would have been foolish to make it a story were only a fraction of the world's population could understand or enjoy. The film is the very definition of a crowd-pleaser and a four-quadrant film. This film is exactly what the art form of cinema was created for. It's the natural evolution of the early days of cinema with films like A Trip to the Moon. When the world is ready to accept high concept, visually impressive films, trust me, Cameron will deliver that. Just look at the Abyss to check out his pedigree. We may get this with the Avatar sequels or we may get another beautifully made film with an easily digestible story. Bbut what will be guaranteed is that we will all have a great time with a Cameron movie. If history has taught us anything, never bet against that man.
Every time Cameron makes a movie, people predict it will flop. Every time they are wrong.
You never want to underestimate James "Raises the bar" Cameron
It's funny since I never hear anyone ever mention this movie. I hope with 4 sequels there's actually a unique story.
I mean if money is your only measure of success, maybe. This movie was pushed as being an instant classic, a cornerstone of cinematic history that would be talked about for decades to come, but it's just straight-up not true. Outside of videos like this, people barely even remember this movie EXISTED. Honestly I feel like Cameron cashed in his reputation to get those numbers, and I don't know if he can do it again unless the next movie is actually as phenomenal as this one was supposed to be.
I watched the original Avatar twice, but I won't be paying any attention to the sequels. If there's enough people like me out there, they aren't going to do anywhere near as well. The novelty of it really only works once, and just because a studio greenlit them doesn't mean much; studios make terrible decisions all the time.
@@ZeroKitsune that's just not true at all. It's been over a decade and people still talk about Avatar, even outside of videos like this. It revolutionized cinema with the introduction of the virtual camera as well as many other innovations that people don't talk about, but are used in films today. Cameron has always made crowd pleasing film regardless of what genre he worked in. Avatar was far from a cash in. That film took 10 years to make. And these new ones took just as long if not longer to make. Cameron is in masterclass of very few filmmakers.
I’ve never watch see James Cameron’s avatar and I forgot it existed the only avatar I’m familiar with is the tv show
Avatar to me is very much like Peter Jackson’s Lord of the Rings movies, but with no source material (let alone one of the greatest works of fiction ever…), so while the production effort was monumental and technically groundbreaking, its story lacked soul and when you look past the Ooh Ahh Pretty, all you have a sludge of Hollywood cliches and cheap political messaging.
I remember Avatar. :/
No one's favourite?
Me and my brother loved this movie and it ruled the box office for quite some time
Overall great video so far
Can't wait for the sequel to this masterpiece
I think it's just sarcasm. Of course it's a lot of people's favorite movie and even just a movie that a lot of people like, at the very least. I love the movie too. It's just that it did receive a lot of flak back in the day for some very valid flaws in the movie. But either way, it's liked by a lot nonetheless. Even after so many years, there's a reason why it's still sitting at a 7.8 on IMDb after 1.1MIL+ votes, 81% on Rotten Tomatoes and a 5/5 on Facebook! ;)
Yeah dude December can’t wait for avatar the way of water
"Insignificant pieces of the overall grand story" and yet we follow those two for 3 hours. Titanic is a trash romance movie, but the movie is intense while the ship is actually sinking.
If you think Titanic is a trash movie, you’re really not paying attention. Give it another shot in a few years and try to watch without preconceived notions.
I like the movie. Still watch it from time to time. Why does everyone think spectacle isn't worth reliving? A roller coaster ride doesn't have any substance but I still wanna experience it again and again. I guess, it all comes down to personal preference.
Avatar was the best movie experience I’ve ever had in my life. Sure the plot and story wasn’t but the experience was. I was so high when seeing it with my ex and cousin, the flying part in 3d was so amazing I remember.
I’ve never seen Titanic or Avatar and just now realized they are both James Cameron movies. 🤷 Great video….I agree the script is why Avatar was so forgettable….thank you 🤘
How can you really agree with that if you havent seen the movie? Do you trust her summarization that much?
@@datzfatz2368 I’ve seen reviews, clips and read a plot summary …it just doesn’t interest me. I decided this awhile ago before I ever watched this video 🤷 Thanks for asking for clarification!
@@GreatGreebo aight fair enough^^ was just curious.
Everyone forgot about it because selling point of the movie at the time was that it was a new technical gimmick. It was considered breaking because of it not the movie itself that was more then mediocre. Even back then it looked just like a stupid cartoon to me. Watched it at home once and was bored AF. But then again I wasn't 12.
There's something... homey about your channel, Nutsa. You always approach topics from angles I just hadn't thought to, and it makes your thoughts and discussions fascinating.
Plus the (and I'm saying this term lovingly) kind of low-ish quality microphone brings me back to the era of older youtube videos. The slower-paced edits (typically well done and tasteful when they do happen) also really sets you apart from the homogenized script layouts of most youtube diatribes these days. Not that I dislike other videos, it's just that your own videos have a very unique thumbprint, which I appreciate. It's clear that you rely on your writing and points to make the videos work, which is the kind of quality I live for.
I think I only really get that nostalgic, "home grown" feeling from this channel and Noah Caldwell-Gervais. It's a good niche to fill.
I used to watch this 3 times a day
Child's play, try 8.
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 Hate that doll!
@@druunderwood5602 He scared my childhood, but I enjoy it very much now.
@@doolittlecraftsmann302 I was in my teens when it came out,
But still freaked me out ! My first names Andy!
The day I find the Kandarian Dagger is the day that dolls dead! 😉
24:00 - It's not at all difficult: Juror #1, Juror #2, Juror #3, Juror #4, Juror #5, Juror #6, Juror #7, Juror #8 Juror #9, Juror #10, Juror #11, Juror #12
It was the definition of mediocrity. Especially considering the director. The story was unoriginal, the script was average, the characters were forgettable, the acting average. The “native” blue cat people was done already in FFX back in 2001, the cowboys vs Indian ( corporation/military vs technologically disadvantaged natives) story has been told a hundred times, the world was essentially a blown up rainforest in neon. Even when it first came out I didn’t get the hype other then It was a James Cameron film. But he, not unlike Steven Spielberg, are past their prime. It being shot in TRUE 3D which was inconsequential. 3D is one of the biggest gimmicks in movies that resurfaces every 20 years or so but never sticks.
. . . Because it was underwhelming with a lot of flash, but zero substance other than, "Man is Evil" - Fern Gully beat it to the punch on that "message." And Fern Gully was better.
I personally loved every aspect of this movie, and it's still in my top 5 to date. You make well-articulated points, I just largely disagree, especially with the claim that the movie had a bad script. My perception was that the dialogue felt very real, especially given the out-of-the-box premise of this movie. I also think the symbolism laced throughout didn't distract from the novelty of the world at all. And, given that humans aren't the best at learning from our mistakes, I don't think it seemed forced at all to carry heavy influence from colonial history given that it's set as another colonial effort in the future. But that's just me.
Exactly
I agree, the dialog felt real compared to some other movies.
One word - "unobtainium" A laughable lack of imagination. The movie sucked. Period.
@@Grizazzle lots of things without imagination are still good; the incredibles for instance. Its an average superhero movie, but people ate it up as if it were the best thing since sliced bread.
Yeah avatar is legendary bro
Ah yes, "DeviantArt Landscapes, the Movie"...
I forgot this existed.
I must agree, I cannot help but me amazed at the world this story created and the passionate work that went into making the film. I still rewatch it now and then and as someone with plenty of native ancestry, it really is a conundrum with the movie's connection to my people's past and how well it executed its message. Anyways, great video!🙌🙌
Truly, story is not original anyhow. If u even forget Pocahontas comparison, there are plethora of movies with oppressor soldier changing side to help oppressed. The lack of originality is a long standing problem in Hollywood I guess. In the last decade only "Edge of tomorrow" comes to my mind as a good original scifi movie. Nevertheles, plot was decent for Avatar to enjoy the movie great deal for couple of screening, despite of some glaring stereotypes, scientific foolishness and military silliness. at last, may be it is me and can be ignored safely, shaky
Agreed
I can't ever forget it because it's one of my father's favorite movies, and because Cameron acted like motion capture was invented for this movie.
I think people want other people to believe that they do t remember this movie. Why? I have no idea. Avatar was an impressive movie. It was wholly original, pushed new ground in terms of movie-making, and it had a great message. I certainly remember a lot about this movie, and I enjoy rewatching it from time to time.
The reason it doesn’t get talked about more is because Marvel stormed the stage immediately after Avatar was released, and every manchild nerd came out of the woodwork, creaming their pants in the process.
For the whole endgame vs avatar debate, I think if we look at it objectively (as in remove our personal bias from the equation) Avatar probably has the better plot.
Now that's more of criticism for Endgame than it is praise for Avatar, but it's important to realize that endgame is quite literally carried by what came before it, some may argue that this is true for all of the MCU movies but Infinity war can stand on its own, it won't hit as hard as it could but it's still going to be a good movie. Now endgame on the other hand can not stand on its own nor can it stand with just infinity war. You need to be attached to these characters for the movie to work, otherwise you'll be too busy noticing how things don't really make sense or how everything is reaaaally contrived or how the time travel doesn't make sense and so on.
It's both a shame because I wish endgame had a better story than Avatar and a testament to how good of a formula marvel stumbled upon with their MCU (though that's most likely not going to be true anymore given the general quality of their recent movies).
In any case Avatar is most likely forgettable just because it's a character-driven story in a movie where every character is forgettable. The main character is quite bland, the lead female is just kind of there, the antagonist is generic military dude n°12313213. Like personally the only thing I could tell you about these characters if I hadn't watched the movie recently would be "The villain has a cool scar on his face and the main character is in a wheelchair".
Calling avatar dances with wolves in space is vastly misunderstanding the themes that it’s trying to explore.
The concept of becoming one of the Navi is far more important than the Native American parallel. It’s about how all conscious beings in the universe are linked and this planet happens to be the only one to truly immerse intelligence with our natural world whereas us humans, who should be able to do the exact same thing in the case of Jake, tend to think of ourself as separate from nature.
The trees animals and Navi are literally all consciously connected, whereas regular people holdup walls an barriers from ourselves and others and things we deem as threats.
Jake becoming a Navi is not a white guy proving he can save everyone, it’s showing that the concept of white and Navi doesn’t matter. What matters is consciousness and how we use it. If Jake was a black guy I think people would easier understand it’s themes cause honestly avatar is some grade a science fiction when viewed under a psychadelic type of lense.
You should keep making videos. You're great.
How is deforestation on alien planet hard to remember? but I really think characters are forgettable
Still never understood the hate. One of my favorite movies of all time. the graphics where waaaaaaay ahead of the time
Agreed. It's still one of the greatest cinematic achievements since it's still the greatest 3D movie ever made. And it's one of the best examples of substance in the style
Was the answer because 4 out 5 members of my family that went to watch it fell asleep within the first ten minutes? If not, I gotta call BS. That was an expensive nap.
Me having watched AVATAR a week ago: 😐
The main reason you can't remember any of the names from 12 Angry Men is because they never, ever give out their names (with two exceptions, at the very, very end). And that's kind of one of the points of the movie. Their names are unimportant. They're jurors #1-12, nothing more (in this context).
I never regretted seeing Avatar in 3D, it's still one of the best looking 3D films I've ever seen, but the film itself is pretty bad, I've no desire to ever rewatch it, and I don't own a copy of it.
I don't think it's that nobody remembers it, it's just that in hindsight most people have realized that other than the innovations in CGI there's nothing else to recommend it. Hopefully the sequels will be much better.
Thinking about it now though, having an copy of Avatar might be extremely educational for the BTS and extras on the making of it for any aspiring filmmaker, because every aspect of this film (even the story) was calculated to appeal to a mass audience.
I'm just going to put this out there since it seems to be so rare:
I absolutely remember Avatar. In fact it is one of my all-time favourite films and it was very significant in my upbringing.
Same here, was one of the last movies I saw in theatres with my grandfather :) Still love it and have been waiting for a sequel ever since.
Yeah I don’t understand how people are saying avatar is “forgettable” I’m also excited for the sequel in December, James cameron is good at sequels
I've never understood the hype behind this movie other than the behind the scenes technology. I was very underwhelmed considering all the praise it got. Totally forgettable for me.
@@d3l3tes00n Agreed. I remember thinking it felt like a Captain Planet episode with a romance stuck in with how one-dimensional most of the characters were, ESPECIALLY the villain, Sgt Naturekiller or whatever his name was.
💯🥰
I do remember Avatar pretty well. Though to be fair I saw it in theatre three times. Not because I loved it that much but because I was invited to see it by three different people and I was too polite to say no.
I like the part of the movie where the main lead tame a bigger pet and it just wows the whole blue people, good memories from the past. Kinda forget about everything else though
When this movie came out all my friends called it the greatest movie ever. I thought it had great visuals and great worldbuilding but subpar story and overwrought political messaging. yet out of that friend group I was the only one to buy the movie and watched it as recently as last year still enjoying it. They have seemingly forgotten the movie existed.
Because it was a painfully stupid movie?
Agreed, the story is still too generic for me to call it a good movie, but it was a visual treat.
I guess it was supposed to just be an experiment in the first place, and as far as experiments go I have to give the film makers a lot of credit for the risks that they managed to pull off.
People compare it to nowadays standards, which is totally unfair. If Avatar would come out today, in it´s exact form like in 2009, it would bomb for sure. But back then it was just visually mindblowing and makes total sense why it was such a big hit. I guess that the studios pressured Cameron to come up with so many technical results, before that they even started shooting, that he simply didn´t have time to write a good script. But just imagine how much of a masterpiece this movie would be, if the story would be great.
"Why you don't remember Avatar"... I literally remember every single line and shot of Avatar
"They didn't understand blue people with tales"..............in a Hollywood movie, in the 2010s...who were they talking to?
The real problem with the movie......you can only experience it in a movie theatre. There's two sets of people who saw Avatar. Ones in 3D theatres and those who saw it somewhere else. Those who were initially amazed by it saw it in theatres ....and those who immediately picked it apart for all its flaws.....saw it somewhere else. Once it wasnt in theatres anymore even those that LOVED it were forced to watch it on other mediums and without the hUGE 3D screen where you are sucked into the world Avatar created it loses ability to amaze.
People saying that they have issues with the plot because it SOOOOO unoriginal, yet most superhero films basically have the same plot and yet the are successfull...
I remember it, and I used to love it very much, for one simple reason: it happened to be the very first movie I watched when I was small. It impressed me so much, and still does even if not I see the problems with its plot and characters -- the world looked and still looks so real. I watched it quite a few times, it has become somewhat of a comfort film for me, and sometimes we re-watch it together with my mom, as we did more than ten years ago for the first time.
I've legit never watched this movie all the way through, but look, you gotta RESPECT the work that went into it!
I own this movie cuz me and my mom love movies, and this was back when everyone didn’t stream most stuff now, it’s more of and experience when u first see it and unless u watch a bunch u probably won’t remember it, it’s long, maybe to some it doesn’t have a captivating story, I personally disagree, but it’s gotta a lot of stuff chucked in there, and that’s not always good, and I do agree that just cuz it looks cool doesn’t really mean ppl r gonna stay interested the whole time
I do remember the movie more as I got older, when I first saw it I was young, and didn’t really understand what I was watching at the time, it was long, and honestly quite weird to me, but as I’ve gotten older I appreciate movies more cuz I can understand better than when I was young, so I rewatch movies a lot, just understanding it better I was able to enjoy it more, I love the two leads, there love story I actually thought was very cute, I like the ending when they say they see each other, it does look really nice too, I was enjoying the look of it when I was young as well, and honestly I was probably one of the few ppl that remembered avatar when Disney made the theme park 😂, but I own this movie and have watched it a lot over the years, I really enjoy the movie now, I can spot the problems it has, I can spot tons of problems in movies that I love and hate alike, cuz nothing is perfect, but I personally really liked the movie, it’s kind of a childhood movie for me, something I understood better when I got older that completely went over my head as a kid
I still like this movie. And I saw it twice in theaters. Once in 3D. Can’t wait to see the next movie next year. Underwater recording. Cameron is trying to break barriers again.
No one went to see Avatar for the story. It was ALL about the massive leap forward in VFX. I was in college at the time (Actually taking a VFX class. We talked about going to see the movie as a field trip.), so the memories are pretty clear. You HAD to see it in then-innovative 3D ($$) and you HAD TO see it in Imax ($$$$), easily tripling the cost of a ticket. The story and characters were an afterthought.
(Also, as a graphic designer I _do_ care that they use Papyrus as both the logo and subtitles. And the reason you don’t remember the names of the characters from 12 Angry Men is that they purposely didn’t have any, using juror numbers until the last shot of the film.)
Gone With the Wind is still the highest grossing movie of all time.
It also had countless re-releases, all of which they count. What's your point?
Okay, it was beautiful, the animals were alright, I liked the characters but.......it's Dances With Wolves in space
Very well thought out and researched. I always said, with the hundreds of millions of dollars he spent, all the talent he gathered around him, the sheer innovation that had to happen in order to film and produce this movie...why did he only pay the script writer $25?
You are right, it tried to simply do to much, and like so many movies....they forget the entire reason people go to movies...for a good story.