After watching the video, I would like to thank Master Edgar and his team for this video. “Projection” is such a popular buzzword for describing a good violin but rarely you can find such a scientific and practical explanation of the concept.
The difference comes from certain acoustic properties of the instruments. Whereas the cheap violin has narrow band resonances, the master violin in contrast is designed to have much wider resonance bandwidths which is quite difficult to achieve. However, the true master knows how to do it, which needs experience and consumes time.
Wow! HUGE difference!!!! It would be helpful if there was a ratings for how much a violin projects at 500 ft. This is kind of like a sticker you see on every car in the United States that tells you how many miles per gallon the car will get. Maybe if all violin makers started doing this each violin would come with a sticker telling us how many decibels any specific violin will get at say 500 ft.
Very good! I am physicist, teach a subject on waves and vibrations, and I can confirm every word said in this video. The compariskn with the training the brain does when dealing with two differently gaged eyes is very timely. Congrats, Edgard.
I enjoyed listening to this. The comparison was striking! (I also want to commend you on not relying on cute effects and numerous jokes as was recently your norm. You have so much to say that is important and the glitter was distracting.)
This is so well explained. There are so many videos that discuss sound post adjustment, bridge adjustment, or differences in strings. This video helps with understanding the what of what is specifically being sought after with those adjustments.
Hello Edgar, how do you do? This is a very interesting topic! I once was at a violin competition in the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie, where the stage is completely surrounded by seats. The competitors all had very good and high quality violins, unfortunately I only got a seat quite far away and up. There was one player (who interestingly won the competition) that, as a soloist, was barely audible, while an other one (3rd price) was better audible and enjoyed more. I later got the recordings, and there the girl who made 1st price played absolutely outstanding. But her instrument was a little too weak for this big concert hall. I recently looked out for a new viola and got one "master instrument" from Rumania. Very beautiful built and excellent wood! But it had some kind of inbuilt "reverb". Sounds great on the ear, but I made a recording from farer away and it was quite powerful, but got the opposite of what you explained: only the low frequences got to the recording device, all the overtones got stuck on their way. Sounds pretty good on the ear but not so good for the audience. I still don't really understand what happens there, but it seems it's also because of selective listening? Maybe I'm more sensitive to the overtones and when close-by, the mixture of frequencies is nice but to be also nice farer away, overtones have to be much stronger. Unlike what you explained, I hear the viola quite well from a larger distance, it's quite loud, but there is missing any brillance and sweetness. It sounds like being played in an oil barrell. So, if you're looking for another video topic it would be interesting to hear why some instruments sound good for the player but bad for the audience, and vice-versa? My current (cheap!) viola projects not that bad for the price and sounds good from a distance, but appears quite weak and boring for the player. Can I have both, or do I have to decide?
Have you heard of the "Royce Burt Violins" RUclips Channel? I just discovered it a few days ago, and he has a "new design" that is producing some really outstanding sounding instruments. My impression from his recent videos is that they probably have very good projection, besides their beautiful, rich tone.
Hi! Mr. RUSS. JAN.19 2024, I JUST GOT THROUGH RUBBING IN A NEW BRIDGE. IM USING A SHORT PIECE OF ANGLE IRON TO HOLD BRIDGE 90 DEGREES WITH5 DEGREE RAKE BACK. I USE FELT ON BOTTOM OF ANGLE IRON TO PROTECT BELLY OF VIOLIN. LAST NIGHT SHE SOUNDED GREAT! NICE LOW ACTION FOR HIGJ POSITION CLASSICAL RUNS. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EXPERTICE AND SHARING! BY
Excellent test, and information, thank you Edgar!! Perhaps the set up of each of the violins is also . important. In any case , lovely violin, bravissimo Marco!!
Hi Edgar, interesting video. Irrespective of the subjective opinion, the physics rules. I would think that a sound meter could measure the sound power (dBA) while playing different open strings. The louder the sound power, the greater the projection. We can't fool the physics.
Thanks for making this video and trying to illustrate this topic, Edgar! I’m curious if you had the chance to compare projection and tone with a spectrum analyzer. What does the spectrum look like for a “dark” vs “beautiful” vs “bright” tone? What does the spectrum look like from close vs far? These kind of experiment and descriptive videos are super helpful, and a niche you have in RUclips Land
@@EdgarRuss. Hi Edgar, I’ve been going back years to look at your soundpost videos. I haven’t found any advice on grain density/ spacing in the soundpost . Can you give advice please ? I’ve taken the edge off my e string , by moving it slightly away from the bridge , but the post developed a slight twist…..and it’s dropped again when I tried to correct it. As I prepare to try again, I’ve decided to make a new post with grain a tiny bit over 1mm apart, compared to the fallen post with about 0.4mm grain. I’m having fun !!
A note is a note but there are overtones and the projection is the overtones is different. You can hear it up close, the 1st violin sounded sharper or pointier, because the note from the string is there but falls off quickly in the overtones, closer to a single note electric keyboard. The 2nd was the same note but fuller and it is noticeable up close. I would suspect a carbon fiber unplugged would be similar or worse than wood, you can model a great violin sound and process the single input notes in a computer and from a speaker produce the great violin spectrum on the carbon fiber violin. Good enough speakers and software and a light keyboard setup can sound better than a cheap string piano. I have a quite good Baldwin baby grand, I love the sound, I play at my sister who has a Chinese baby grand and it isn't close, have no problems with the sound but it isn't close. I went with a friend to music store and they had a room with pianos, baby grands from under $10K to Steinways the same size for over $50K, you have any type of ear you can hear the difference in sound and overtones.
This is an excellent question. It is the spectrum as a function of distance that is of interest. Then we could see how the primary tone and the overtones change over time. Over simplifying, the cheap violin sounds loud close up, but it loses most of its overtones at a distance. Volume of each decreases as a function of distance, but not at the same rate.
Greetings Edgar! Long-time subscriber; A Wonderful presentation (as usual). Can you direct me to where I can study the physics of the violin bridge? I ask because I have a 5-string Romanian violin (by Gliga), but the bridge cut-outs (heart, kidneys, etc.) are the same as for a 4-string violin. But I suspect, for the best sound, the cut-outs should be different for the 5-string violin (Strings: E, A, D, G, C). Thank you kind Sir! - bro Paul -
Hmmm - very interesting :-) So: is there a difference between projection and volume? Is the violin that projects better than another simply LOUDER than the other one???
Yes, the answer is that a good projecting instrument have specific marked overtones in special areas where just a loud instrument doesn't. A loud instrument means not projection. Especially you can play loud with a well build instrument depending und your pressure into the instrument.
I'm sure someone else has asked this, but at that risk, I'll ask "Understanding that it would be a lost financial cause, what would you do to make the Chinese violin on par with the Master violin?" It is even possible? Now I presume this would require taking the violin completely apart and possible re shaping much of the wood. This would be, of course, a massive waste of your experience and talent and would almost certainly result in pouring time ( money ) into something you could never recoup and make your investment back from, but I am curious on what it would take.
Projection is overrated. Any decent violin with a decent setup ‘projects’ if you know what you are doing as a player! You are comparing the cheapest violin possible made out of probably plastic to an entry level handmade violin. Of course we are going to hear a difference. I’ve seen violins that aren’t handmade that project fairly well and are easy to play, but not a 50 dollars Euros violin like the one featured here.
After watching the video, I would like to thank Master Edgar and his team for this video. “Projection” is such a popular buzzword for describing a good violin but rarely you can find such a scientific and practical explanation of the concept.
The difference comes from certain acoustic properties of the instruments. Whereas the cheap violin has narrow band resonances, the master violin in contrast is designed to have much wider resonance bandwidths which is quite difficult to achieve. However, the true master knows how to do it, which needs experience and consumes time.
Wow! HUGE difference!!!!
It would be helpful if there was a ratings for how much a violin projects at 500 ft. This is kind of like a sticker you see on every car in the United States that tells you how many miles per gallon the car will get.
Maybe if all violin makers started doing this each violin would come with a sticker telling us how many decibels any specific violin will get at say 500 ft.
Very good! I am physicist, teach a subject on waves and vibrations, and I can confirm every word said in this video. The compariskn with the training the brain does when dealing with two differently gaged eyes is very timely. Congrats, Edgard.
I enjoyed listening to this. The comparison was striking! (I also want to commend you on not relying on cute effects and numerous jokes as was recently your norm. You have so much to say that is important and the glitter was distracting.)
This is so well explained. There are so many videos that discuss sound post adjustment, bridge adjustment, or differences in strings. This video helps with understanding the what of what is specifically being sought after with those adjustments.
I always learn from you💝
That’s nice!
❤
I really like the video but the flash shortly before 5:22 nearly gave me a heart attack. Please be careful with sudden flashes
I have an old Italian violin by Felix Mori Costa, 1820 . It has an incredible projection even in open air !
رجعت اتعلم الكمان بسبب أفلامك شكرا
Hello Edgar, how do you do?
This is a very interesting topic! I once was at a violin competition in the Hamburg Elbphilharmonie, where the stage is completely surrounded by seats. The competitors all had very good and high quality violins, unfortunately I only got a seat quite far away and up. There was one player (who interestingly won the competition) that, as a soloist, was barely audible, while an other one (3rd price) was better audible and enjoyed more. I later got the recordings, and there the girl who made 1st price played absolutely outstanding. But her instrument was a little too weak for this big concert hall.
I recently looked out for a new viola and got one "master instrument" from Rumania. Very beautiful built and excellent wood! But it had some kind of inbuilt "reverb". Sounds great on the ear, but I made a recording from farer away and it was quite powerful, but got the opposite of what you explained: only the low frequences got to the recording device, all the overtones got stuck on their way. Sounds pretty good on the ear but not so good for the audience. I still don't really understand what happens there, but it seems it's also because of selective listening? Maybe I'm more sensitive to the overtones and when close-by, the mixture of frequencies is nice but to be also nice farer away, overtones have to be much stronger. Unlike what you explained, I hear the viola quite well from a larger distance, it's quite loud, but there is missing any brillance and sweetness. It sounds like being played in an oil barrell.
So, if you're looking for another video topic it would be interesting to hear why some instruments sound good for the player but bad for the audience, and vice-versa? My current (cheap!) viola projects not that bad for the price and sounds good from a distance, but appears quite weak and boring for the player. Can I have both, or do I have to decide?
Have you heard of the "Royce Burt Violins" RUclips Channel? I just discovered it a few days ago, and he has a "new design" that is producing some really outstanding sounding instruments. My impression from his recent videos is that they probably have very good projection, besides their beautiful, rich tone.
Hi! Mr. RUSS. JAN.19 2024, I JUST GOT THROUGH RUBBING IN A NEW BRIDGE. IM USING A SHORT PIECE OF ANGLE IRON TO HOLD BRIDGE 90 DEGREES WITH5 DEGREE RAKE BACK. I USE FELT ON BOTTOM OF ANGLE IRON TO PROTECT BELLY OF VIOLIN. LAST NIGHT SHE SOUNDED GREAT! NICE LOW ACTION FOR HIGJ POSITION CLASSICAL RUNS. THANK YOU FOR ALL YOUR EXPERTICE AND SHARING! BY
Excellent test, and information, thank you Edgar!!
Perhaps the set up of each of the violins is also . important.
In any case , lovely violin, bravissimo Marco!!
I’m subscribed! 🎻 With the bell 🔔
Wow! Phenomenal explanation! Very educational!!! Thank you!
I always learn so much from your videos, Edgar! You are a great teacher! Always fascinating!
Hi Edgar, interesting video. Irrespective of the subjective opinion, the physics rules. I would think that a sound meter could measure the sound power (dBA) while playing different open strings. The louder the sound power, the greater the projection. We can't fool the physics.
🎉🎉🎉 New Friday Edgar video … Haven’t yet finished the video but wanted to be the first comment 😂😂😂
Very kind of you!❤
Thanks for making this video and trying to illustrate this topic, Edgar!
I’m curious if you had the chance to compare projection and tone with a spectrum analyzer.
What does the spectrum look like for a “dark” vs “beautiful” vs “bright” tone?
What does the spectrum look like from close vs far?
These kind of experiment and descriptive videos are super helpful, and a niche you have in RUclips Land
Great videos! Also, moisture content is important for the instrument to vibrate correctly. I choose to tune the strings lower. My A is 417 hz.
very interesting
This is extremely helpful information, Thanks!
Thanks! Jackie!
🕺🏽🎻👋🏼
@@EdgarRuss. Hi Edgar, I’ve been going back years to look at your soundpost videos. I haven’t found any advice on grain density/ spacing in the soundpost . Can you give advice please ? I’ve taken the edge off my e string , by moving it slightly away from the bridge , but the post developed a slight twist…..and it’s dropped again when I tried to correct it. As I prepare to try again, I’ve decided to make a new post with grain a tiny bit over 1mm apart, compared to the fallen post with about 0.4mm grain.
I’m having fun !!
A note is a note but there are overtones and the projection is the overtones is different. You can hear it up close, the 1st violin sounded sharper or pointier, because the note from the string is there but falls off quickly in the overtones, closer to a single note electric keyboard. The 2nd was the same note but fuller and it is noticeable up close. I would suspect a carbon fiber unplugged would be similar or worse than wood, you can model a great violin sound and process the single input notes in a computer and from a speaker produce the great violin spectrum on the carbon fiber violin. Good enough speakers and software and a light keyboard setup can sound better than a cheap string piano. I have a quite good Baldwin baby grand, I love the sound, I play at my sister who has a Chinese baby grand and it isn't close, have no problems with the sound but it isn't close. I went with a friend to music store and they had a room with pianos, baby grands from under $10K to Steinways the same size for over $50K, you have any type of ear you can hear the difference in sound and overtones.
This is an excellent question. It is the spectrum as a function of distance that is of interest. Then we could see how the primary tone and the overtones change over time. Over simplifying, the cheap violin sounds loud close up, but it loses most of its overtones at a distance. Volume of each decreases as a function of distance, but not at the same rate.
Greetings Edgar! Long-time subscriber; A Wonderful presentation (as usual). Can you direct me to where I can study the physics of the violin bridge? I ask because I have a 5-string Romanian violin (by Gliga), but the bridge cut-outs (heart, kidneys, etc.) are the same as for a 4-string violin. But I suspect, for the best sound, the cut-outs should be different for the 5-string violin (Strings: E, A, D, G, C). Thank you kind Sir! - bro Paul -
Hi Edgar, a recording of the amplitude at close range would tell the story alone. Correct?
Very interesting, Thank you...I'm planning a trip to Cremona ,do you recommend any hotel around the area or b&b?...
Hmmm - very interesting :-) So: is there a difference between projection and volume? Is the violin that projects better than another simply LOUDER than the other one???
Yes, the answer is that a good projecting instrument have specific marked overtones in special areas where just a loud instrument doesn't. A loud instrument means not projection. Especially you can play loud with a well build instrument depending und your pressure into the instrument.
Thank you for this 🙂 The distinction between projection and loudness seems to be very subtle & I'm not sure if I fully understand it yet...
I'm sure someone else has asked this, but at that risk, I'll ask "Understanding that it would be a lost financial cause, what would you do to make the Chinese violin on par with the Master violin?" It is even possible?
Now I presume this would require taking the violin completely apart and possible re shaping much of the wood. This would be, of course, a massive waste of your experience and talent and would almost certainly result in pouring time ( money ) into something you could never recoup and make your investment back from, but I am curious on what it would take.
Did those violins have the same strings?
Your player looks like she definitely does not like your Chinese instrument very well.
Projection is overrated. Any decent violin with a decent setup ‘projects’ if you know what you are doing as a player! You are comparing the cheapest violin possible made out of probably plastic to an entry level handmade violin. Of course we are going to hear a difference. I’ve seen violins that aren’t handmade that project fairly well and are easy to play, but not a 50 dollars Euros violin like the one featured here.