The Sharknoses of the Baldwin Locomotive Works
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
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To quote Al Staufer in Pennsy Power II
“The sharks weren’t known for speed, but their tenacity for keeping heavy trains moving made them a favorite with a whole generation of hoggers. The speed indicated would sit for minutes at a time barely above zero, yet those sharks would keep pulling, often unlike their EMD competitors”
The RF-16 is the only diesel in my top 10 favorite locomotives.
@Enmity the Kindhearted your talking about 50s diesels, you ever heard of the Monon Line?
@@Rebelgamer-1111 It's the Hoosier line!
It’s not one of my favorites, but I do have a soft spot for certain shark and bulldog nose locomotives because of just how iconic they were.
(Plus I also have a Bulldog so who said I wouldn’t 😂)
ruclips.net/video/oIWLJcet4VU/видео.html
I've always wanted to know more about these baldwin diesels. Thank you!
You bet!
The Trainz RF-16's were originally from Control Point Simulations, but have since been rebuilt and are now available from Trainz Forge!
Good to know, thank you very much for the info!
Oooooh
Though some CPS content may also return on JointedRail (as Audie became part of JR after CPS shut down)
I heard he’s redoing his SD70, check the Trainz Forums. Hopefully the B40-8 is next.
Wow, that's gonna be sick!
It brings me sorrow knowing that so many of these engines were scrapped. But then it brings me joy to know that at least two still exist, with the possibility of them running again. Thank you for your awesome content! It really ignites that old fire of mine for the railroads.
Glad you're enjoying the show!
That JAWS reference XD priceless
We're gonna need a bigger engine
Made me chuckle 😂
When the sharks were in freight service in Michigan in the 70s; they ran "double headed" with some geep I believe. IIRC The geep would tow the sharks downhill with the train and then the sharks would lead coming back up hill with a crew running the sharks and someone running the geep separately.
Actually this practice used an RS-3. The Geeps came later after the Sharks left for the E&LS.
@@fmnut ahhhh right on!
Thanks for the very informative video! By the way, about 6 months ago, I saw a RUclips video on the Escanaba Sharknoses. There is actually footage of one of them! It is in rough shape, but unmistakably a Sharknose.
They're sure hard to miss. :P
I have subscribed to your channel. I am a railfan, have been since I was a very young child, and am now 70 years old. I was around for the very tail end of the steam era on main line railroads. I get a kick out of your channel's name. I have a book of photographs by Lucius Beebe titled "High Iron." Have you seen the book?
I usually prefer the look and feel of Steam Locomotives, I gotta admit these Shark nose Trains look pretty cool. If they made a toy of one for wooden railroads, I'd have to buy it.
BLI makes HO scale Sharks, I've got an ABB consist.
@@moestrei Bachmann also makes Baldwin Sharks (the four axle version, both A and B units) in H0 scale.
I once read somewhere that the Santa Fe was considering purchasing Baldwin Sharks but was pursuaded by EMD not to. I don't remember the details and don't know if it's even true, but it's an interesting 'what if'. I own a number of old Tyco and Roco/Model Power sharks in HO scale, most have been rebuilt (Athearn F unit frames work under plastic Tyco shark bodies, if the frame is turned around and the rear/square end of the frame is cut off) and in addition to prototype paint schemes, I have two in Santa Fe Warbonnet colors (Wholly fictitious but looks really sharp, the contours of the Warbonnet compliment the contours of the body) and one in Rock Island (Again fictitous but with the Rock Island's "We'll try anything" mentality it's wonder they did not have Sharks.) Had the Santa Fe bought some sharks, perhaps other roads would have too.
Easy 1) EMD had a great record on the Santa Fe, which already owned 320 FT's and 93 F3's before the RF-16 was introduced - and would then buy 462 of the directly competing F7's ( and 36 F9's) Alco also sold no FA's to ATSF 2) Adding another model meant having to train your shops to maintain a completely different model and stock a whole range of spare parts not used on anything else (ATSF rostered 110 BLW switchers and 7 transfer units - none of which used the same generation of engine as the Sharks) 3) Word was getting around the industry about how BLW units were failing on the road and being hard to maintain (due to its "each unit different" philosophy 4) ATSF was a high speed line - it ditched it slow speed second hand ex-N&W and ex-C&O articulateds as fast as it could after WW2. So, the RF-16's strong suit, lugging drag freight at slow speeds was diametrically against its operating philosophy 5) EMD and the ATSF mechanical department had a close and strong relationship 6) EMD had legendarily superior customer service. Old steam builders barely understood the concept
@@colbeausabre8842 Those are some good points. To be honest I do have my doubts about the story I read about the ATSF considering sharks, I find that some of the older books I have, do contain a fair number of errors or oft-repeated misinformation.
AT&SF was a big customer of Baldwin Steamers,so it makes sense
You make the best railroad history videos ever! I'm not a diesel guy but man the sharknoses are beautiful machines. If you take suggestions, you should do a video on 1. Famous railroad shop complexes such as Juniata, Roanoke, Paducah, etc or 2. Lima's Berkshires, among the most famous steam locomotives in the U.S. Anyways, great work and I can't wait for the next video!!!
So i was looking at my keys for my fleet equipment. Where i keep keys for my employees to use the equipment. The lock boxes with the equipment keys in them (on the machines) the keys i give my employees to access the box have the weird hollowed circle for the teeth. The keys and lock boxes are made by ILCO which also built locomotives for in Philly for Baldwin.
Thank you for mentioning their service on the MRY, a very overlooked and underrated short line railroad that did big things.
Somebody had to keep them in service long enough for preservation to catch up... :P
Great backstory! The EJ&E also had Baldwin Sharknoses in the form of four DR-4-4-1500 in an A-B-B-A set which were former demo units, and were only on the "J's" roster for five years before being sold to the Baltimore & Ohio railroad. As far as Baldwin DT-6-6-2000 Centercabs were concerned, "The "J " had 27 of the 52 built. Thanks for sharing! "Big ups 👍 from Chicago!"
LOL the jaws theme got me
ELS just moved one of the Sharks at their Wells Michigan yard not too long ago. The move was noted by a train You tuber in upper Michigan named Jason Assielin
Hi
Hello there
My two favorite things, sharks AND trains, in one video????
It feels like Christmas
Sharknado
Love these videos from you! Always make my day to find a new one to learn that much more on railroads and the different locomotives that make up them! Hope to see more of these on different locomotives and railroads soon!
Great video. Good information. Thank you. Sincerely, Papasmurf7597.
Correction: Baldwin was unwilling to switch to diesel locomotive manufacturing. They saw it as a fad that would fade off due to its arrogance. They weren't willing to innovate, which is why their diesels were obsolete, thus why their diesels had the problems of not being built with assembly lines, and why they were using air throttles (like in steam locomotives) instead of electric ones.
Cracking video, sir. :)
The story of Baldwin always generally reminds me of the North British Locomotive Company (NBL) of Glasgow and their mainline diesel designs in response to British Railways' 1955 Pilot Scheme which are now well-known to be lemons by-and-large. Their demise in April 1962 was down to a variety of factors, ranging from a export market they'd been heavily dependent on for decades rapidly contracting, a lack of adequate communication between management and workers on the ground/general management issues to the use of outdated and just plain unsuitable machinery for the precision task of building diesel (and electric) locos, which had the knock-on effect of poor build quality and reliability.
But I digress. From a British perspective (and from a person who overall prefers diesel locos to steam), the RF-16 is one of my favourite American diesel designs. Just so unlike anything else, both of it's time and in the decades since.
Good comment, and very interesting reflection on North British. Also the fact that in the early 20th century at roughly the same time both NBL and Baldwin massively increased production facilities for an expected flood in orders that never came.
Not too sure why, but possibly management saw a continuation of late 19th century operating methods, without foresight as to differing railroad systems, but it would appear more that both companies just plain overextended themselves and their expectations, theres only so many locomotives a market can consume.
I digress; your observation of North British reliance on export: the largest order throughout the 1930's being a not particularly large order for "J" class 4-8-2 locomotives for New Zealand in 1939.
I have a request for a video you should do you should documents Baldwin locomotive Works Last Road switcher the RS12
Nicely done, especially the use of sims to illustrate scenes never committed to film. However, a bit on the passenger Sharks would have been nice.
Great job guys. The PRR Sharknoses are my favorite of their type. Also, love that JAWS reference.
One thing that I find a curiousity with American diesel locomotives is the cab at one end. Here in the UK, it was a design choice that didn't catch on with mainline locomotives with only shunters & a handful of type 1 locomotive designs taking the arrangement & even then the controls were doubled. Something else that's apparent is how the builders of these diesels weren't dedicated diesel locomotive builders. In the UK during the Pilot Scheme (which came with the 1955 Modernisation plan), a huge number of locomotive & road vehicle builders stepped up to produce locomotives. The manufacturers that won out ultimately were Brush Traction, English Electric (Both specialised diesel locomotive builders), the Birmingham Locomotive & Carriage works (a hangover from the steam era) & Metro Cammell (of Leyland Trucks & Buses). It's quite amazing how different the railway culture is between the UK & the US
Why didn't road switcher locomotives catch on in the UK?
Very informative and nicely presented. Love your content 👍
When I first learned about the Sharknose, and specifically the 2 D&H units in storage in my birthtown of Escanaba, Michigan, I had to add them to my O Gauge Layout! Very cool video and history lesson.
The fact they worked on the new york central is incredible
I hope one day that last 2 RF-16’s ride the rails one day
Beautiful and well researched story!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Cool Baldwin locomotive 🚂 CHEERS from the Rails of Newark New Jersey 👍♐️
Absolutely amazing video! I loved the Jaws music when you first introduced the sharks. Do yall think yall will cover the RF16s bigger cousins? The DR6-4-2000.
I rode behind the D&H Sharks a couple of times, and got several cab visits. The animation does not come close to depicting the truly aggressive look of these engines. I grew up on steam engines, but the "Sharks" and the "PAs" made lots of fun trips on the D&H. Of course what the D&H did to 759 is another story.
E7s and shark noses where the zenith of diesel design.
IMO the best looking streamlined diesel ever.
Baldwin had limited success on the American market.
But they also exported a limited number of locomotives to Argentina, 51 of the RF615-E1 series.
They sold a license to the Belgian locomotive builder Cockerill, which did build around 200 locomotives equipped with the 608A prime mover for the Belgian Railways, and exported locomotives to railways in Africa and also Argentina.
The Belgian locomotives were quite successful, the oldest class, the 59, operated between 1955 and 2001, the later class 51 with an uprated 608A prime mover of 2150hp from 1960 to 2005.
Several of both classes run in preservation, and the class 59 may come closest to the RF-16 sound. Search for NMBS reeks 59 on YT and you will find a number of videos.
I do remember both classes well, and especially the class 51 was known to be a strong puller, I have seen a single unit on a 45 car steel slab train weighing around 4000 tons
Baldwin had it right the first time wheels was the correct design choice
Nice job on the story of the Sharks and Baldwin .
Nice, informative presentation. Thanks
I like you have the Quasi Jaws like music to describe the shark nose hahaha.
Broadway Lmt. came out with a HO RF16 A/B set many years ago. I was fortunate to pick up the A unit and pair it with a E R Models in the D&H Blue Bonnet. E R Models also made them in N scale.
Makes perfect sense why Andrew Raila’ Bammers put a link to this video in one of the annotations in his Baldwin Centipede episode of his Dead On Arrival series.
The shark was a inferior version of the babyface. Especially the double end CNJ ones.
0:09 Those cute cars!!
Two things. The first 'Sharks' were DR-6-4-2000 units built for the Pennsy, and riding on A-1-A trucks, competition for EMD E-units and Alco PAs.. The first freight 'Sharks' were DR-4-4-1500s, essentially 'Baby Face' units in a new carbody; they became RF-16s when the engines were uprated to 1600 hp.
In response to New York City anti-smoke regulations Baldwin started to make diesel switchers in 1939. Steam locomotives with good maintenance last forever and all of the engines that were sold to second-hand lines we're still running 20 30 40 years later in Freight Service. Some tourist railroads would use their engines for Freight Service during the week and passenger service on the weekends.
ok then
i love the old diesel looks like the rf-16
Keep making these great documentaries!
Mild disappointment with the lack of mention on the two Sharknoses the preceded the RF-16's, though understandable considering they were both PRR-exclusive variants of an existing model
Another great video! The cinematic music to introduce the Sharknose is definitely a great feature.
It was too good to pass up.
@@HighIron What's the name of the song used to introduce the Sharknose?
I didnt notice any talk about the Longer sister of the RF-16, the bP-20 as prr designated them.
I have a challenge, figure out whatever you can on B&O H7-Class steam locomotives and present it in video form.
Love that shark nose.
I love these diesels! Yet another image that fuels up my imagination.
One of the main reasons that you see the windows open in vintage pictures of streamlined diesel electric locomotives, is that the enclosed diesel prime movers were infamous for exhaust system leaks,and the windows had to be kept open to keep the crews from suffocating on the exhaust gases!
It was really bad growing up in the 60s and 70s. The Railroad industry tanked as all the manufacturing industry went to China. After 300 years here in the Naugatuck River Valley..all the factory's closed up..one by one...
Love them sharks
A great video on the old Shark Nose units. I myself am a huge fan of that design. I'm not real knowledgeable in train locomotives, Steam or diesel. But a truly rail fan at heart. I really enjoyed this video, I hope you can do more on some of these now defunct locomotives. I'd really like to see a video done on the P-30CH POOCH. It had a short run with Amtrak, and I've always heard that they rode ruff, and had alot of mechanical issues. But I think they were amazing looking myself...
Great video! It was a real pleasure meeting you at the Madison TN Swap Meet!
It would be awesome if you did a small documentary on the Alco PA!
when and if you do a Q&A heres my questions
why dont you post much
why did you name your channel high iron
and why do you never talk about train crashes
Lima really didnt end on a high note....the lima hamilton diesels were really good but there laye entry made them never get a chance to flourish....im lucky enough to work around some of the few survivers
I have to ask, what software are you using to make those locomotives? Awesome video, RF16 is one of my favorites.
Blender, but these are not my creations.
@@HighIron actually I have a question, what version of Trainz are you playing?
@@Rebelgamer-1111 Telling by the lighting, definitely Trainz 2019 (unless he was a beta tester of Trainz 2022)
@@bakerboat4572 ah thank you, I will admit although being a railfan my whole life I've never really looked into train simulators, thank you for the info
These locomotives are so cool looking
Great graphics!
It is from Trainz 2019, a video game. But even still, these are great shots.
This will be the story of the likes of GM and Ford as Tesla overtakes them with new electric cars.
just subcribed, I really like this content super informtiave and fun to watch
Welcome aboard!
@High Iron
Could you make a story about the Nebraska Zephyr? "Silver Pilot" Because it is a big engine in the Illinois area. It is still around at the Illinois Railway Musuem in Union, IL. She is undergoing repairs at the moment I think but her most recent top speed was 80mph back in 2012 when she went back out onto the main line.
@@Matts_Conrail_Chicago_Mainline If there aren't any models of that, what about the 1630 Frisco Decapod?
Train land in New York had a sale on Williams locomotives for $100 you got a sharp nose diesel plus a dummy B unit I bought a couple dozen of them knowing they would never be that cheap again. I wish I had a bigger layout so I could run more different locomotives and I love to run a centipede. I love to have a centipede pair painted in Penn Central black with the wiggly worm logo. They shouldn't have scrapped any locomotives and bought brand new ones to trains that they did not have.
Its a real shame, I love the styleing of the Baldwin Sharknoses, wish they had gone into diesel sooner. Imagen what they could have made for Amtrak.
" Imagen what they could have made for Amtrak" An outfit known for using slow speed engines to power slow speed locomotives - Amtrak would turn and run! Here's the deal with the only passenger Sharks - and remember PRR's close relationship with BLW meant the PRR really WANTED these units to be successful "The PRR classified them as BP-20 (Baldwin Passenger, 2,000 horsepower or 1,500 kilowatts). They were originally used on top-flight express trains such as the Broadway Limited, but problems soon relegated them to lesser service. They ended their days on commuter trains along the New York and Long Branch in New Jersey." BLW's attempts to develop an engine to compete with EMD's Model 567 were a failure "1948
Model 547 Series
- opposed-piston, 2 cycle, 6 1/2" bore x 8 1/4" stroke,
- called the 547 series after the displacement of each cylinder
- 6 cylinder, 1170 brake hp, 1000 hp for traction @ 1200 rpm
- 9 cylinder, 1750 brake hp, 1500 hp for traction @ 1200 rpm
1949-1950
- three test engines, each 3 cylinder (6 pistion), built and tested
- one 9 cylinder engine, built and tested
1951
- project cancelled after testing showed the same deficiencies found in other opposed-piston designs" and Westinghouse had exited the locomotive electrical equipment market in 1953 - so there went their electrical supplier. In 1956, for the first time in living memory, a PRR locomotive order to the commercial builders had not included Baldwin. BLW was SHOCKED and begged PRR to reconsider. But PRR was adamant. With the loss of their biggest customer, Baldwin threw in the towel.
I can already tell this is gonna be awsome
Can you try the LMS 8Fs please?
What version of train simulator are you using. It looks great. Awesome informative video. Thx
Train Simulator Classics and TRS2019.
I got a n scale Shark Nose model for my birthday this year, they’re such cool looking and interesting locomotives it’s so nice to learn more of the story behind them
It's a good day when high iron makes a new video
Excellent.
Many thanks!
Hey does anyone know what song is playing at 5:24?
I would like to know too
I think its a remix of the jaws theme...
Glad 2 were saved
I think I found my "go-to" train channel.
Nice video
Thanks
Np
Good to know that those two locomotives are still around for future fans to see!
Idk why, but I just love those old Baldwin diesel switchers. They just look cute. Keep making these kind of videos especially for well unknown locos that might've had a huge influence
Glad you like them!
@@HighIron glad to be a subscriber
The Baldwin Shark Nose RF-16 diesels were one of my most favorites.
Top Hat Rail (a Top Hat Mercenary Confederation Operated Company) when looking at Baldwin Locomotives: “We’ll take your entire stock.”
What's the big deal with RF-16 lately. I have seen several people make videos about these locos in the last couple weeks.
A further advantage that EMD enjoyed over all its other competition is that during WWII it was allowed to continue building and developing diesel-electric locomotives, building up comparitively vast in-house working knowledge on the principles and foibles of diesel-electric traction, allowing them to come out the gate at war's end with fully functional and highly reliable products while the legacy manufacturers had to learn essentially from scratch.
I’m willing to bet the RP-210 killed Baldwin, since it was Baldwin’s last diesel and it was easily the worst diesel every made in America by a major builder
HORRIBLE synthesizer effects that are WAY TOO LOUD
There was almost a third survivor. At the Harry E colliery in swoyersville PA, a PRR baldwin B unit was placed on semi truck trailer sets, preservationist were close to acquiring the unit from RMDI in coxton pa. Sadly she was scrapped. I forgot the exact date it happened it was between 1997 and 2003
RF-16 my favorite loco! I hope the Larkin's at the ELS will fix them up or donate them soon. I hear they will be after the patriarchs passing. If I remember right the sharks were moved in April. The move was taped by Jason Asselin.
Very good video High Iron! This video does a good job explaining the history of Baldwin and it’s venture into dieseldom. Love it!
Much appreciated!
delaware and hudson too!
1:01 it's my favorite 4-6-2 pacific, Florida East Coast railway #148
"Did someone say.. *WHEELS* ?"
*NFL Theme kicks in*
How can I contribute to your channel? I've always wanted to add subtitles.
Thanks for covering the Sharknoses! These are my fav/ locomotives!
A shame that you didn't discuss the PRR six-axle Sharknoses. I think those are still quite a bit less well-known than the RF-16s, so shedding some light on them would have been nice.
The Railworks ones slipped by me after the fact. If there were EJ&E sharks available, I would’ve used those too
are these available in T:ANE?