You should extend the series with an investigation on the drop knee. It feels like every time I can’t reach something a good drop knee makes it feel as if I grew like 10 inches.
You know you've made it when a doctor (from Australia) deems your content good enough to explain biomechanics ;-) Glad you found the footage helpful, and I appreciate the acknowledgement.
As someone who's been climbing for 15 years, I absolutely love your explanation on how all of the muscles and tendons work together, and the examples/diagrams you provided. When climbing I can feel everything moving around, and know what's being used for what, but I've never seen something like this to see how everything's working together specifically for climbing. Keep up the great work!
A full-on series is very much needed. I think many people would appreciate if you could pull in some numbers for forces different joints and tendons can withstand and how all 4 fingers and thumb compare to each other. Lookin forward to some epic vids.
Physical Therapist here, rock climbing enthusiast, and youth climbing coach 5+ years. Just want to say I was impressed with the information and presentation here. I learned stuff too!
I've never subscribed to anyone after just one video, but this one was so well done. After climbing took over my life for 7 years, I've never had a pulley injury, but accumulated stress on my joints forced me to quit 4 years ago. It was devastating. I don't know if watching videos like this will ever allow me to climb again, but it would give me peace of mind to learn what caused my injury so i can warned others not to follow in my footsteps so they can continue to enjoy climbing. I would greatly appreciate a video on synovitis in the PIP joint for climbers!
Gonna have to rewatch this, but I'm a climbing newbie and this had a lot of interesting information! Thanks for explaining with such helpful examples/visuals :)
I’m new to climbing but have done sports for a while. I was really concerned about finger injuries right off the bat and didn’t know what a pulley injury is. This video helps so much! This gives me confidence to keep climbing slow so all of the muscles in my hands get stronger. Thank you!!
Yes, in fact muscles have the tendency to grow stronger faster than the tendons are getting thicker and more resistant. So, when you get into climbing, it's important to not overuse pockets holds and crimps, and to warm up properly (doing joints stretching, a bit of cardio, and some gradually difficult climbing). By doing this, you will most likely prevent injuries. And then, when progressing, you can more and more try to use 3, 2 or even 1 finger to hold a position.
YESSSSS YES YES YES A HUNDRED TIMES YES!!! I love biomechanics and I love rock climbing, but there’s not a lot of biomechanical discussion on the internet. PLEASE keep making these videos!
Thank you so much for this video. Watching this helps me understand why I cannot close or extend my hand properly after suffering a full open dislocation of a finger.
Very well done video. One terminology correction, at least in my area, open grip is a type of "crimp grip" when you said crimp grip you were referring to what is commonly called a closed grip. There's also a half grip which is... Wait for it... Halfway in-between the two.
i think if you ask 3 people you'll get 5 sets of names for these grip types 😁 for me they are (in order from most agressive to least agressive) full-crimp, half-crimp, and open hand... and... i if i understoof correctly my half-crimp is not your half-grip 🤣 (ive never heard anybody use half grip before)
Editing tip to Curious Doc, you had me confused at 4:49. Following your explanation of a back flag, you showed how not to do a back flag, but your transition was so quick that I still hadn't processed what a "proper" back flag was, and had to go back and find the original clip. Next time, try including a clip of proper form "after" you explain what something is so that we viewers can visualize what you just said. Regardless of everything I just said, I love the video and you just got yourself another subscriber. I love biomechanics. Thanks for the awesome video.
This was super cool! I'd love to see you tackle some more climbing related topics - but either way I subscribed to keep an eye on what you cover in the future!
Tendons do grow, just at a much slower rate than muscle. They grow much in the way muscle does, with tension, but it’s important to have deload periods for a lot of reasons, your tendons included. Since they grow so much slower due to less blood flow, deloads may help them strengthen by allowing them to recover. But in terms of specifics doing climbing will strengthen your tendons, if a lot slower than muscle.
Are there any good reviews on topics like this? The common injuries in climbing review seemed like it was missing a lot, and the only other great article I could find was on lumbrical strain.
Hi I watched this video way back and I thought you did a fantastic job! I’m coming back to this video to ask if you could do a video on the biomechanics of a drop knee and why this technique is so useful.
Nice video and really good explanation! =) I study civil engineering and thinking about this sort of stuff on a mechanical basis really came in handy for me when climbing. Broken down the body on the wall is really just a static system that shouldnt move (at least until you reach for the next hold). Your hands and feet are good at transfering vertical and horizontal forces but very bad at handling moments. You can avoid moments by either manipulating your center of mass or by smartly placing the supports (your hands and feet). Understanding and applying those principals, be it analytically or intuitively is what makes good technique.
Great video, thanks for making. NB there is a difference between the Quadriga effect and quadriga phenomenon- thee former being pathology arising as a complication of repair
Maybe try finding more digestible names for what you're describing. The video was nice but it was difficult to follow at times due to the technical jargon.
I have to try this Quadriga Effect but I think my body already has without consulting me haha, it's just weird to have your other fingers extended on a mono or bi because that takes a little bit of effort that you can't spare at that moment.
So when you talked about using a mono or pocket and the benefits of retracing your other fingers for additional strength, could that be comparable to going into a full crimp for the strain on your tendons and ligaments? And if so could using a mono with all your fingers extended be safer or at least less stressful on your body in comparison? Thank you!
The crimp grip is probably a bit more dangerous than flexing adjacent fingers in a pocket grip. Reason being the A2 pulley can withstand 400N of force and a heavy load can exceed that or the strength can be decreased with chronic overuse of the crimp grip. Lumbrical injuries are statistically less likely also. For your second question, it's best to keep the MCPJs extended and the PIPJs and DIPJs flexed for a good balance between strength and injury prevention. Although it's best to listen to your body and not do movements that hurt.
Very neat. With my index and middle fingers blocked, I can get a good solid curl on my pinkie and a fairly decent curl on my ring finger. I also have that vestigial muscle/ligament thing that pops up in the wrist when I touch my thumb to my pinkie. Not sure if that makes me extra caveman-ish or not, but I like it!
You may have a separate muscle belly for the pinky! And the other thing you're doing is the Schaeffer test for the presence of the palmaris longus. It's a largely useless muscle but if you ever need a tendon graft, surgeons often use thr palmaris longus for that reason!
I am a biomechanist. Very nice representation of the pulley system, but in my opinion at time 3:38 you incorrectly defined the expression "base of support". Your green line is simply the line joining the *support* point (toe) to the *suspension* point (hand). More importantly, at time 3:42 you gave misleading information, when you said that the BCM (body center of mass) should be "in line" with the green line. That's not correct. Actually, the BCM should be: 1) as close as possible to the *vertical line passing through the toe* (which is the true "base of support", whenever only one foot touches the wall) and 2) as close as possible to the toe (because this decreases the moment arm of the weight force relative to the toe, which greatly decreases the load on the hand, which is typically acting with a much larger moment arm, relative to the toe). In short, most of the load should be on the toe. And this is obtained by flagging, back flagging, dropping knee and several other techniques. Notice that your green line is almost never vertical, i.e. almost never coincides with the vertical line passing through the toe. This means that typically the best possible position for the BCM is not along the green line (even though the rock might prevent you from reaching that optimal position). Also, you did not consider the importance of the ratio between the above mentioned moment arms. There are examples of positions in which the BCM is placed directly above the toe, which implies 0% load on the hand (i.e. 100% load on the toe, due to null value for the moment arm of the weight force, relative to the toe). In this optimal case, your green line might be very distant from the BCM, because the hand may not be directly above the toe.
i rock climbed like, 3 times in my life (all bouldering). But each time I have shit load of fun and a painful realization of how weak I am. Looking at this video I realize how much that goes into it. How should I start to learning how to climb and work out to make myself stronger?
Just start going to a climbing gym my man. If you want to get good at somthing, do it. I've been climbing close to 2 years and the community is so friendly and inviting. Just went sport climbing for the first time yesterday with people I met at the climbing gym.
Would using your middle and pointer finger be stronger for pockets since it can use the individual muscle belly? My ring and middle is stronger but this makes me think it shouldnt be?
Good question... the ring and middle fingers are stronger because the shared muscle belly enables the quadriga effect to happen. Having an individual muscle belly doesn't provide a strength advantage, rather a dexterity advantage :)
4:50 i dont quite get it. when is the base of support at one side, in wich situation is it diagonal? couldnt you also draw the base of support between the left foot and the right hand?
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Part 2 is up here! ruclips.net/video/cjWOkCyeiCI/видео.html
You should extend the series with an investigation on the drop knee. It feels like every time I can’t reach something a good drop knee makes it feel as if I grew like 10 inches.
You know you've made it when a doctor (from Australia) deems your content good enough to explain biomechanics ;-) Glad you found the footage helpful, and I appreciate the acknowledgement.
nice seeing you here
Ayyyy your content is legit! Love your channel
Dude your climbing is textbook!
love your channel brother
As someone who's been climbing for 15 years, I absolutely love your explanation on how all of the muscles and tendons work together, and the examples/diagrams you provided. When climbing I can feel everything moving around, and know what's being used for what, but I've never seen something like this to see how everything's working together specifically for climbing. Keep up the great work!
Much appreciated!!
A full-on series is very much needed. I think many people would appreciate if you could pull in some numbers for forces different joints and tendons can withstand and how all 4 fingers and thumb compare to each other. Lookin forward to some epic vids.
+1 this
Also I just subbed!
Yep, subbed for more climbing content
as a physiotherapist, I find this video really helpful
Physical Therapist here, rock climbing enthusiast, and youth climbing coach 5+ years.
Just want to say I was impressed with the information and presentation here.
I learned stuff too!
I've never subscribed to anyone after just one video, but this one was so well done. After climbing took over my life for 7 years, I've never had a pulley injury, but accumulated stress on my joints forced me to quit 4 years ago. It was devastating. I don't know if watching videos like this will ever allow me to climb again, but it would give me peace of mind to learn what caused my injury so i can warned others not to follow in my footsteps so they can continue to enjoy climbing. I would greatly appreciate a video on synovitis in the PIP joint for climbers!
Thank you for the kind words
Gonna have to rewatch this, but I'm a climbing newbie and this had a lot of interesting information! Thanks for explaining with such helpful examples/visuals :)
You should acknowledge the other climbers and youtubers in your video
I see a lot of stuff from Movement For Climbers in here.
And it is credited. Stupid mobile interface.
He still didn't mention Mani the monkey.
He also used footage from Hooper's Beta ಠ╭╮ಠ who by the way does a much better job explaining AND is an _actual_ climber
Really excited to see more, this provedided some great insight into the reasons behind certain things you instinctively do
That's a good point - our body does a lot of these things instinctively!
I’m new to climbing but have done sports for a while. I was really concerned about finger injuries right off the bat and didn’t know what a pulley injury is. This video helps so much! This gives me confidence to keep climbing slow so all of the muscles in my hands get stronger. Thank you!!
Glad you found it useful!
Yes, in fact muscles have the tendency to grow stronger faster than the tendons are getting thicker and more resistant. So, when you get into climbing, it's important to not overuse pockets holds and crimps, and to warm up properly (doing joints stretching, a bit of cardio, and some gradually difficult climbing). By doing this, you will most likely prevent injuries. And then, when progressing, you can more and more try to use 3, 2 or even 1 finger to hold a position.
As a climber I always knew it felt stronger to flex the fingers I wasn't using. But I never realised why until now. Interesting video! Thanks
I'd Love to hear/lean more about the shearing force on the lumbricals please.
YESSSSS YES YES YES A HUNDRED TIMES YES!!! I love biomechanics and I love rock climbing, but there’s not a lot of biomechanical discussion on the internet. PLEASE keep making these videos!
New climbing video up on my channel!
Excellent video, I’d love to see a similar treatment on the shoulder.
Keep up the good work.
Wow u only have 555 subs 0.o this is top quality content! Keep the good work, in no time u'll be famous!!
Good Video!
Would like to see more climbing videos, especially about preventing finger injuries and how to deal with them.
Thank you so much for this video. Watching this helps me understand why I cannot close or extend my hand properly after suffering a full open dislocation of a finger.
Cool video! Really enjoyed and subscribed, excited for more
Nice video! I've been gym climbing about 2 years and have never really known what the pulleys were.
im new to climbing and this was the best climbing video ive seen so far.
thx! insta liked and subbed :D
I just saw you on reddit. Really good video :D
Cool!! Great stuff thanks, the first try it yourself experiment was pretty fascinating
Thank you a lot that's super interesting, and help to prevent injuries.
Subscribed istantly ❤️
Wow. Explained so well
Very well done video. One terminology correction, at least in my area, open grip is a type of "crimp grip" when you said crimp grip you were referring to what is commonly called a closed grip. There's also a half grip which is... Wait for it... Halfway in-between the two.
i think if you ask 3 people you'll get 5 sets of names for these grip types 😁 for me they are (in order from most agressive to least agressive) full-crimp, half-crimp, and open hand... and... i if i understoof correctly my half-crimp is not your half-grip 🤣 (ive never heard anybody use half grip before)
Awesome video! Very informative and easy to follow with the 3d Skelton model. Do a video about shoulder mechanics in climbing!! Thanks again
This is a great idea, thank you.
Check out the latest video :)
This is fantastic, could you do the biomechanics of the 3 big lifts? Squat, Deadlift & Bench? Great content hope this turns into a series!
Just found your chanel. So much potential in here, keep going!
Editing tip to Curious Doc, you had me confused at 4:49. Following your explanation of a back flag, you showed how not to do a back flag, but your transition was so quick that I still hadn't processed what a "proper" back flag was, and had to go back and find the original clip. Next time, try including a clip of proper form "after" you explain what something is so that we viewers can visualize what you just said. Regardless of everything I just said, I love the video and you just got yourself another subscriber. I love biomechanics. Thanks for the awesome video.
I can't wait to try and think about this next time I climb!
Fantastic explanation! Even being a doctor did not give me that clear picture what I got from this video!
Great Video! Very brief and comprehensive. Enjoyed watching.
Love your videos, waiting for an iceskating one 😁
Outstanding video! thanks for the whole new way of looking at climbing.
Super informative definitely want a full series
Thank you from France !
just watching this viedeo makes all my mdps and fdjps feel better :D
For most rock climbers this is basic knowledge, if it is'nt it should have been. Great video
Amazing video!!
This was super cool! I'd love to see you tackle some more climbing related topics - but either way I subscribed to keep an eye on what you cover in the future!
good stuff! I've been meaning to talk about climbing biomechanics in my vids as well! Maybe one day we'll cross paths 😊
Looking forward to seeing it and learning something new!
Thanks for the educational video. I would like to know about the golf elbow for climbers. Hope I can see you cover this topic later.
Is there a way to strengthen tendons? Like how way you can gradually build up your muscles?
Or do tendons only deteriorate with use?
Tendons do grow, just at a much slower rate than muscle. They grow much in the way muscle does, with tension, but it’s important to have deload periods for a lot of reasons, your tendons included. Since they grow so much slower due to less blood flow, deloads may help them strengthen by allowing them to recover. But in terms of specifics doing climbing will strengthen your tendons, if a lot slower than muscle.
Are there any good reviews on topics like this? The common injuries in climbing review seemed like it was missing a lot, and the only other great article I could find was on lumbrical strain.
I couldn't find any good comprehensive reviews either so a lot of this information is pieced together from various journal articles!
Would love to see more videos on this subject
Hi I watched this video way back and I thought you did a fantastic job! I’m coming back to this video to ask if you could do a video on the biomechanics of a drop knee and why this technique is so useful.
So great to see a doctor from Australia
I am a climber and i always did all the things just because it felt easier 😅, but the explanations were very interesting!! 👍
Nice video and really good explanation! =)
I study civil engineering and thinking about this sort of stuff on a mechanical basis really came in handy for me when climbing. Broken down the body on the wall is really just a static system that shouldnt move (at least until you reach for the next hold).
Your hands and feet are good at transfering vertical and horizontal forces but very bad at handling moments. You can avoid moments by either manipulating your center of mass or by smartly placing the supports (your hands and feet).
Understanding and applying those principals, be it analytically or intuitively is what makes good technique.
Please make a video about extensor tendon injuries. All climbing injury videos are about pulley tendons.
Excellent video. No bullshit, just the facts.
I climb a lot and would love to see your take on shoulder engagement through different moves.
Good idea! And thanks for the support
Thanks for your sharing
Great video, thanks for making. NB there is a difference between the Quadriga effect and quadriga phenomenon- thee former being pathology arising as a complication of repair
As such, it’s the Quadriga Phenomenon you’re talking about.
Really enjoyed the vid- keep them coming
3rd year medical student and climber for 4 years, here. I just wanted to say this was a really well done video. Thank you!
Awesome! Really interesting thanks :)
Really loved the video
great vid! much appreciate for the vid. Do you climb yourself?
very good workout, rock climbing
More climbing!!!
very interesting, thanks
Maybe try finding more digestible names for what you're describing. The video was nice but it was difficult to follow at times due to the technical jargon.
great video! thanks man
Wow! You're amazing!
Please do the same kind of video about dancers!!!
0:01 Hi A doctor from Australia! I am A Viewer from the Internet!
i totally screwed my left ring finger lumbrical about 6 weeks ago :/ thanks quadriga effect! :D
that's awesome, as a starter in climbing I cant wait to try these!!
Good vid! Maybe I missed it being cited but some of this footage is also from Mani the Monkey, which is another channel with good climbing content.
Great vid, cheers!
That was so helpful oh wow
So interesting! Wish anatomy was taught like this more
Thanks bro
two of my favorite RUclips climbers: mani the monkey and movement for climbers 😁
great vid keep it up
Do the Elbow from a climbers perspective next please mate.
Awesome video!
this is amazing
suggestion: this video, but for parkour. Also, thoughts on intermittent fasting?
It looks like im climbing nerd coz this was quiete intwresting 👍
Great vid!
Thank you stranger
I have to try this Quadriga Effect but I think my body already has without consulting me haha, it's just weird to have your other fingers extended on a mono or bi because that takes a little bit of effort that you can't spare at that moment.
So when you talked about using a mono or pocket and the benefits of retracing your other fingers for additional strength, could that be comparable to going into a full crimp for the strain on your tendons and ligaments? And if so could using a mono with all your fingers extended be safer or at least less stressful on your body in comparison? Thank you!
The crimp grip is probably a bit more dangerous than flexing adjacent fingers in a pocket grip. Reason being the A2 pulley can withstand 400N of force and a heavy load can exceed that or the strength can be decreased with chronic overuse of the crimp grip. Lumbrical injuries are statistically less likely also.
For your second question, it's best to keep the MCPJs extended and the PIPJs and DIPJs flexed for a good balance between strength and injury prevention. Although it's best to listen to your body and not do movements that hurt.
@@CuriousDocis it possible to ever increase the strength of the pulleys or will they always be so fragile?
@@CuriousDoc and how much do the other pulleys withstand? no wonder mine snapped twice, because i weight over 80kg 😐
More climbing content. Specially on fingers.
Subscribed here.
very good
Good video
Very neat. With my index and middle fingers blocked, I can get a good solid curl on my pinkie and a fairly decent curl on my ring finger. I also have that vestigial muscle/ligament thing that pops up in the wrist when I touch my thumb to my pinkie. Not sure if that makes me extra caveman-ish or not, but I like it!
You may have a separate muscle belly for the pinky! And the other thing you're doing is the Schaeffer test for the presence of the palmaris longus. It's a largely useless muscle but if you ever need a tendon graft, surgeons often use thr palmaris longus for that reason!
@@CuriousDoc Does that mean I qualify for the X-Men? Sounds like I might be on the way to superhero/mutant status!! Very cool.
Holy Facking Shit!! I learned soooo much from this!
Sick!
I am a biomechanist. Very nice representation of the pulley system, but in my opinion at time 3:38 you incorrectly defined the expression "base of support". Your green line is simply the line joining the *support* point (toe) to the *suspension* point (hand). More importantly, at time 3:42 you gave misleading information, when you said that the BCM (body center of mass) should be "in line" with the green line. That's not correct. Actually, the BCM should be:
1) as close as possible to the *vertical line passing through the toe* (which is the true "base of support", whenever only one foot touches the wall) and
2) as close as possible to the toe (because this decreases the moment arm of the weight force relative to the toe, which greatly decreases the load on the hand, which is typically acting with a much larger moment arm, relative to the toe).
In short, most of the load should be on the toe. And this is obtained by flagging, back flagging, dropping knee and several other techniques.
Notice that your green line is almost never vertical, i.e. almost never coincides with the vertical line passing through the toe. This means that typically the best possible position for the BCM is not along the green line (even though the rock might prevent you from reaching that optimal position). Also, you did not consider the importance of the ratio between the above mentioned moment arms. There are examples of positions in which the BCM is placed directly above the toe, which implies 0% load on the hand (i.e. 100% load on the toe, due to null value for the moment arm of the weight force, relative to the toe). In this optimal case, your green line might be very distant from the BCM, because the hand may not be directly above the toe.
i rock climbed like, 3 times in my life (all bouldering). But each time I have shit load of fun and a painful realization of how weak I am. Looking at this video I realize how much that goes into it. How should I start to learning how to climb and work out to make myself stronger?
Just start going to a climbing gym my man. If you want to get good at somthing, do it. I've been climbing close to 2 years and the community is so friendly and inviting. Just went sport climbing for the first time yesterday with people I met at the climbing gym.
Would using your middle and pointer finger be stronger for pockets since it can use the individual muscle belly? My ring and middle is stronger but this makes me think it shouldnt be?
Good question... the ring and middle fingers are stronger because the shared muscle belly enables the quadriga effect to happen. Having an individual muscle belly doesn't provide a strength advantage, rather a dexterity advantage :)
Nice 😁
Do you have a video how to recover the ligament in the middelfinger? I injured it 2 Month ago by climbing :( And my doc just say: dont move it...
me, a sedentary, at 2am:
interesting...
Beauty
4:50 i dont quite get it. when is the base of support at one side, in wich situation is it diagonal? couldnt you also draw the base of support between the left foot and the right hand?
I am seeing a channel aspiring to make great videos. I would highly adivse you to treat the room you are recording in because there is a lot of reverb
this means using your tendons is aid
Slackline!!!💯
hey so I was able to bend my ring and pinky fingers without the index and middle...
🎉🎉🎉
💯💯💯