For most road racing tracks then, the best barriers were hay bails. Otherwise, you had trees to look forward to hitting. Or barb wire fences in the case of Spa-Francorchamps or rows of bushes at the Nurburgring.
Yeah that's such a good point. He really was the racecar drivers, driver. Meaning all racecar drivers looked at him as the true, no fear, peddle to the metal guy
Wow ! 25 mph faster than Indy. That's crazy. You think they would have looked at this race before running at Vegas. Indy cars and high banks do not work. Weldon might still be alive.
You know what I don't get is how are the Indycar Drivers feel fatigued going 180 MPH when NASCAR goes close to 200 MPH in a pack, someone please explain, this really interests me.
@@NortonSwankyPants Note that this was way back in 1959. NASCAR didn't go 200mph in 1959. And overall 180mph was an incredible speed figure back then. Nowadays Indycars average more than 220mph in Indianapolis.
@@theflagstand True, but still doesnt explain the Fatigue the drivers got maybe its from the banking? and thats why they can go fast without feeling fatigued on Indianapolis?
@@mvd4436 i think the fence went through the tub too,not saying the aerkscreen wouldnt helo but i think Dan was a goner, to give indycar some credit they ran at high bank cookie cutters for years
I knew we had lost another great one when I saw that crash because he went flying into the catch fence cockpit first !! That's probably the only thing that saved Austin Dillon in that bad wreck at Daytona, he flew over those cars into the catch fence but wheels first !!! Of course they all know the risk they're taking when they get into the cockpit !! There's been a lot of great drivers lost over the years & may they all R.I.P.!!!🏁
it almost happened back in 1980 during the USAC/ CART split. it was on the USAC schedule but never run. "IndyCar to Race at Talladega" - racing-reference.info www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=2324 The story of Indy Cars at Talladega begins when a group of car owners in USAC decide to leave the series in late 1978 and start a new one. Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) was born. Right from the start, NASCAR sided itself with USAC.
@@tymcfadden8496 But it probably can be done... Here's the thing: Indycar already play with turbo pressure going to 750 hp to 550 hp. Nascar was safe at indy with 900 hp, and talks about 450hp at Talladega. I guess at 300 hp indycar can run at Talladega, but what would be the point of that?
@@therrydicule Pocono was originally built for indy cars. they raced there for several years until the harsh winters tore the track up so badly that they couldn't run there anymore. they finally fixed it and now they run there again.
I was at that race. My dad took me for my 11 th birthday. We were a USAC family that had moved to south Fl. from Indy. No way we were going to miss it. I have had good and bad memories of that day.
@SupremeLeader GNKdroid - Imagine what it took to continue running in the 1955 24 hrs. of Le Mans after a driver, and over 80 spectators were killed! Hard to comprehend.
I've only ever heard someone like Robin Miller or Dave DeSpain mention this event but until now never heard its history detailed, and it was detailed thoughtfully. Thank you. The dimensions of an IndyCar have changed dramatically since, and safety in racing (but especially IndyCar) has improved lightyears. It it is an intriguing idea to race a DW 12, or is it a DW 19, on the track. But it is not to be taken lightly in light of this history. Beautifully told.
@@Jacob-sy9et it should be Gilles Villeneuve but he has alot of bad luck in that time specially Zanvoort 1979 punctured tires thus broken suspension after running back to the pits and so on and it gaves Jody Scheckter a chance to fight back and took the 1979 World championship title.
@@Jacob-sy9et 1950-Guiseppe Farina 1951-Juan Manuel Fangio 1952-Alberto Ascari 1953-Alberto Ascari 1954-Juan Manuel Fangio 1955-Juan Manuel Fangio 1956-Juan Manuel Fangio 1957-Juan Manuel Fangio 1958-Mike Hawthorn 1959-Jack Brabham 1960-Jack Brabham 1961-Phil Hill 1962-Graham Hill 1963-Jim Clark 1964-John Surtees 1965-Jim Clark 1966-Jack Brabham 1967-Denny Hulme 1968-Graham Hill 1969-Jackie Stewart 1970-Jochen Rindt 1971-Jackie Stewart 1972-Emerson Fittipaldi 1973-Jackie Stewart 1974-Emerson Fittipaldi 1975-Niki Lauda 1976-James Hunt 1977-Niki Lauda 1978-Mario Andretti 1979-Jody Scheckter 1980-Alan Jones 1981-Nelson Piquet 1982-Keke Rosberg 1983-Nelson Piquet 1984-Niki Lauda 1985-Alain Prost 1986-Alain Prost 1987-Nelson Piquet 1988-Ayrton Senna 1989-Alain Prost 1990-Ayrton Senna 1991-Ayrton Senna 1992-Nigel Mansell 1993-Alain Prost 1994-Michael Schumacher 1995-Michael Schumacher 1996-Damon Hill 1997-Jacques Villenuve 1998-Mika Häkkinen 1999-Mika Häkkinen 2000-Michael Schumacher 2001-Michael Schumacher 2002-Michael Schumacher 2003-Michael Schumacher 2004-Michael Schumacher 2005-Fernando Alonso 2006-Fernando Alonso 2007-Kimi Räikkönen 2008-Lewis Hamilton 2009-Jenson Button 2010-Sebastian Vettel 2011-Sebastian Vettel 2012-Sebastian Vettel 2013-Sebastian Vettel 2014-Lewis Hamilton 2015-Lewis Hamilton 2016-Nico Rosberg 2017-Lewis Hamilton 2018-Lewis Hamilton 2019-Lewis Hamilton 2020-Lewis Hamilton
ART MALONE! In 1961 claimed Bill France's prize of running over 180 mph at Daytona. Who was Art Malone? Good friend and driver for "Big Daddy" Don Garlits in his Top Fuel dragsters! He not only set this record in '59 at Daytona, he also raced in the Indy 500 (best finish 11th) and was a hell of a drag racer....setting the Top Fuel record in '59 @183 MPH and winning the AHRA world championship. Of all the drivers...Indy, Nascar, Drag racing....Art Malone was at the time the most versatile and skillful, able to drive literally anything to championships and records. Art was, in the end, known mostly to the drag racing world...as a driver and friend of Big Daddy... I am proud to say I saw him race many years ago....
I wondered why they never raced open wheeled Indy cars @ Daytona. Today I found that they did and why they do not anymore. Thanks for the historical racing video!
Id rather lose it in one of the new ones. Those things have crumple zones and airbags; these old indycars are turbocharged flying bathtubs. You stuff one of those and you're done.
@@Trainlover1995 - I am well aware of that! I didn't say that they did, it was JMB7416 above. My reply to him was I don't think so. You need to read more carefully before making stupid replies!
Those things were completely solid, they never folded like modern cars do when they crash to absorb most of the impact and that mean the drivers took 100% of the impact. Brave men they were to even dare to race a death trap and +170mph
They tried racing Indy cars at the Texas Motor Speedway. It’s not banked anywhere close to Daytona. The drivers were complaining of vertigo- like symptoms after just a few laps. These tracks are not designed for IRL type cars.
I see Bill Cheesbourg ran this race, qualifying 12th. I worked for Bill in Tucson Arizona. If there was ANYONE unafraid of the track it would have been Big Bill. Bill was a man's man.
Great video! I always wondered why IndyCar didn't do races in Daytona while NASCAR had races in Indy. Also didn't know that the Firecracker race started because of a cancellation.
Jim Rathman also owned Chevrolet dealers in Cocoa Beach, Florida (near Cape Canaveral) and later, near Houston. His steadiest clients were astronauts. Of the Mercury7, John Glenn suppose bought a station wagon from Rathman, but the other six all purchased Corvettes.
The Rathman's were long time owners of a big Pontiac dealership in downtown Orlando...in the 60's/70's it had a big neon Indian Chief's head (Pontiac's symbol back in the day) in front of the dealership that was a real mainstay in Orlando. I bought a Trans-am from them in the early 80's...by then I think the dealership ownership may have changed hands but was still on the same famous footprint.
The final bit mentions the 2009 reunion. Too bad this does not show the presence of the #16 Simoniz Spl that Jim Rathmann won both races with in 1959. Yes, he was present at the reunion but did not drive.
During this lockdown I am able to soak up as much as I can on racing as it was over there in the US. Watched a few of your offerings. Smiley who I watched racing over here in the UK, USAC/CART split etc.... Just wanna say thanks for putting these together.Nicely done and more than informative.
I never knew USAC Indy raced at Daytona back in '59. Thanks for the video very education to all people and their individual racing tastes. I know I'm paraphrasing this one quote but it goes, if you lose it here "Daytona" your ass is a grape". That about sums up Indy's one shot at Daytona back in the day.
A modern F1 or Indy car would put too much g-force on the drivers owing to the combination of banking and aero downforce. They'd be pushing 8+ g's which is possible in a fighter plane when the forces work from top-to-bottom, but when the forces are lateral and continue for most of the lap and then for many laps, the risk of blacking out is too high. If the actual NASCAR's didn't run restrictor plates they'd be hitting 220mph+ which is dangerous enough with 20 cars for 200 miles, but when you have 40+ cars and 500 miles the end result would be death pretty much every race.
Unfortunately, you can't do the trick roller coasters do to avoid blackouts. They intersperse high-G turns with sharp hills, producing negative G's which force blood back into the brain.
I think these conversations are interesting seeing as though they ran Indy type cars on board tracks all over the United Stated States with banking of close to 50 degrees back in the 1920's for the most part. I think I read somewhere that the Talladega banking was 36 degrees and Daytona even less than that. There was a place in New Jersey called the Nutley Velodrome which was the last of the board tracks whose banking was 37 degrees and they ran open cockpit Midgets there for a couple of years and was 1/6 of a mile in length. There are a couple of videos here that depict a couple of those races.
Back when the IRL ran I went to the Charlotte race the year before the crash that killed spectators. On a 1&1/2 mile track they averaged over 200mph during the race with laps between 20 & 21 seconds Having only seen nascar there prior those speeds blew my mind The following year I might a night shift job and missed the race the claimed the lives of fans In my opinion, Indy cars need to stay off of high banks They’re insanely fast and when it goes south it goes WAY south Also see the Michigan crash of Adrian Fernandez that led to wheel tethers in CART
@@prevost8686 I've always been fascinated by these "closed course" records. I remember Rusty Wallace in a Penske prepped Cup car, without a restrictor plate, lapped Talladega at 216 mph. Gil de Ferran got the pole at over 241 mph for a CART race at Fontana. Mark Donahue lapped at over 221mph in the powerful Porsche 917 CanAm at Talladega. Best of all, I believe AJ Foyt still has the "closed course" record at over 257mph on the Firestone test track in Texas, driving an experimental aero smooth body adapted to an IndyCar chassis, designed and sponsored by Oldsmobile.
It never ceases to amaze me how crazy racing was in the past. The risks they would take are so totally unimaginable nowadays. Some call them heros, while I think they were maniacs.
Read the book "The Limit: Life and Death on the 1961 Grand Prix Circuit" by Michael Cannell to understand the Cavalier attitude towards the lives of the drivers.
I mean just look at F1 racing in the 60-80s, Look at the short but brutal history of Group B Rally, classic racing, was fast, deadly, all together incredibly unsafe
@@DevinEMILE I thought they closed Group B before any major catastrophes? (I know they had one set of driver/navigator killed, but thats still way better than 60's F1, right?)
Same with Monza. Depending on where you look it is at best rarely used (the banked course) and some suggest that it's defunct and will never be used again. The beating that the cars and drivers take (mostly a chasssis thing) killed it, regardless of the speed.
There must've someone running a Formula Gran Turismo on Daytona in the GT5/GT6 days. (Hell, they even ran a race in Blue Moon Bay Speedway, a fictional oval based on Pocono, on Japanese Super Formula cars for an esports event).
I think that Indycar at Daytona/Talladega could be done nowadays, if they remove the wings (to cut down the downforce and prevent pack racing from happening) and some of the first rows of seats in the grandstands. The only problem would be the horrible transition from the track to the apron.
Excellent video I had not realized this about Daytona and the Indy cars and the crashes and killed drivers in the very beginning of Daytona's sordid history of Fame and Glory buy achieving victory as the most recognized track in the world the Daytona Speedway
It was all about aerodynamics. The cars would lift off the ground due to the shape of the roadsters, which was similar to an aircraft wing, The dirt cars didn't have this problem, but had a lot of aero drag and were slow, compared to the roadsters. The roadster that went 180 mph had a large wing producing downforce, which made it stable. Back in 1959 the Indy car guys knew little about aerodynamics, unlike today where F1 and Indy car racing is all about aero.
The aero drag is what kept the dirt cars from spinning and going airborne at Daytona in '59. Of course with the extra drag it made the dirt cars run slower but it had to have made for a better handling car around those long high banked corners and it had to have made for happier drivers not having to work as hard as the roadster drivers barely hanging on for dear life!
In a longer event it could actually have been very interesting, a battle of endurance. The roadster drivers crashing out or getting too exhausted vs. the dirt cars' engines possibly developing problems due to exceeding their design limits. After all, the fastest dirt car was 'only' 11mph slower than the fastest car so on the long run it could've worked. Of course a longer event would've probably meant more serious crashes too.
@TheLazyWanderer - The Hudson Motor Co. built the Hornet model in the fifties and it helped popularize the early years of NASCAR. Its legendary straight six managed to blow off the V8s of the time and this got the attention of everyone. Hudson later became American Motors or AMC.
They were also one of, if not the smoothest driving american cars at the time. My grandad had one and it was glorious until my dad and uncles worked on it. Then it was demonic. I was too young to remember all of what they did to it, but I remember that they "found" the engine at an airport, the new springs they threw in the back meant it could carry a lot of "Mexican Hay" in the trunk without sitting too low...
In today's day and age, while the Superspeedway may be too dangerous, I would like to see IndyCar try to run on the infield road course. (Or Roval. Whatever you want to call it.) Even if it's just an exhibition race.
Fun USAC History... The "SUMAR Special" is still honored with the running (not in 2021) of the " Sumar Classic" at Terre Haute, Indiana for Silver Crown. Pat O'Connor has a memorial race as well, alongside Joe James namesake for an annual Open Wheel show held at Salem, Indiana.
Indycars on the road course would be quite interesting. You could have the 24hrs of Daytona, followed by the Indycars, then the 500 spaced out by a few weekends. Wouldn't that be something.
@9:07 the sub-headline wrote of driver Bob Veith. I recall he gave a school assembly talk at my high school in the late 1960s; as he was, I believe, working for Champion Spark Plugs for a safety driving program for teens. I recall he briefly mentioned in his talk about this race he was in, with speeds approaching a remarkable 170 mph, where a lap belt saved his life in a crash on that track. Veith may have mentioned about that as his way to illustrate the importance of wearing the seat belt in a passenger car.
You and Slapshoes (I know you've worked together) are doing racing videos right. NASCAR should definitely snatch one of you guys up to run an official NASCAR history Channel to keep the amazing history of the sport alive!
SuprChickn 77 I agree, I am not even a NASCAR fan. However, I am a big history buff and I have been binge watching both of these creators content. It’s just so well put together and interesting.
A.J foyt slammed into the armco barrier at Michigan international Speedway in 1981 and almost lost his arm. In 2000 Paul Tracey of CART set the One lap qualifying record of an *AVERAGE* of 234.94 Miles an hour, which is just stupid fast and way too dangerous. In 1998 at a CART race a crash killed 3 spectators and injured 6 after debris went into the crowd. I'd say Michigan International Speedway is probably the most dangerous overall track still in use, and because of the lack of Restrictor plates Nascar Stockcars routinely enter corneres at 215-220 MPH making it the fastest track on the schedule. Though nothing truly compares to langhorn Speedway in terms of dangerous tracks
It's still far too dangerous. NASCAR catch fences act like cheese graters when an IndyCar hits them. It killed Dan Wheldon at Las Vegas a few years ago, and that's a full mile shorter.
Idk if you knowingly do this, but you sound like the announcers from back in the day who did recaps on things like this just as you are with historic events. I really appreciate that, and hopefully the bad quality mic was part of all of it hahaha
Safest track in the world.
With a highway guardrail as a wall.
1959 for ya
For the 1950's, a guardrail at that time was a safer barrier compared to a concrete wall. For the drivers that is not the spectators.
Lucky nobody Lost in neck Head in Daytona
For most road racing tracks then, the best barriers were hay bails. Otherwise, you had trees to look forward to hitting. Or barb wire fences in the case of Spa-Francorchamps or rows of bushes at the Nurburgring.
In 1961 . Lee Petty went up and over the guard rail during a NASCAR race.
You know it was scary when A.J. Foyt said it scared the Hell outta him.
Yeah that's such a good point. He really was the racecar drivers, driver. Meaning all racecar drivers looked at him as the true, no fear, peddle to the metal guy
@@conspiraciesarejustgreatst2059
Every racecar drivers with a long career have fears.
Gotta have a little bit of fear, it’s part of what keeps you on the track.
Who the hell was this Foyt guy? Did he ever do anything in racing?
@@XX-eh2ke 😂
If A.J. Foyt was scared then you know its about as worse as it could get
Wow ! 25 mph faster than Indy. That's crazy. You think they would have looked at this race before running at Vegas. Indy cars and high banks do not work. Weldon might still be alive.
@@edgarbeers7475 In Wheldon case more troublesome was the pack racing nature of the high banked ovals than the concept itself.
You know what I don't get is how are the Indycar Drivers feel fatigued going 180 MPH when NASCAR goes close to 200 MPH in a pack, someone please explain, this really interests me.
@@NortonSwankyPants Note that this was way back in 1959. NASCAR didn't go 200mph in 1959. And overall 180mph was an incredible speed figure back then. Nowadays Indycars average more than 220mph in Indianapolis.
@@theflagstand True, but still doesnt explain the Fatigue the drivers got
maybe its from the banking? and thats why they can go fast without feeling fatigued on Indianapolis?
Maybe if IndyCar had watched this video in 2011, they wouldn't have run in Vegas and Wheldon would still be alive.
Yeah but a halo would have saved him. Most indy deaths were due to no roof
@@mvd4436 didn't the rollbar collapse?
@@simoneburini4036 I don't think it did. His head got hit by a catch fence pole. If there was a halo, his head would not be exposed to the pole
@@mvd4436 i think the fence went through the tub too,not saying the aerkscreen wouldnt helo but i think Dan was a goner, to give indycar some credit they ran at high bank cookie cutters for years
I knew we had lost another great one when I saw that crash because he went flying into the catch fence cockpit first !! That's probably the only thing that saved Austin Dillon in that bad wreck at Daytona, he flew over those cars into the catch fence but wheels first !!!
Of course they all know the risk they're taking when they get into the cockpit !! There's been a lot of great drivers lost over the years & may they all R.I.P.!!!🏁
If it was this bad at Daytona, they'll never even try Talladega.....
it almost happened back in 1980 during the USAC/ CART split. it was on the USAC schedule but never run. "IndyCar to Race at Talladega" - racing-reference.info
www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=2324
The story of Indy Cars at Talladega begins when a group of car owners in USAC decide to leave the series in late 1978 and start a new one. Championship Auto Racing Teams (CART) was born. Right from the start, NASCAR sided itself with USAC.
@@tymcfadden8496
But in that period, there been a race with indycar and silver crown at Pocono... So...
@@tymcfadden8496
But it probably can be done...
Here's the thing: Indycar already play with turbo pressure going to 750 hp to 550 hp.
Nascar was safe at indy with 900 hp, and talks about 450hp at Talladega.
I guess at 300 hp indycar can run at Talladega, but what would be the point of that?
@@therrydicule Pocono was originally built for indy cars. they raced there for several years until the harsh winters tore the track up so badly that they couldn't run there anymore. they finally fixed it and now they run there again.
I had a crazy thought. Put F1 cars at Talladega.
Wow... didnt know they did this.
Also didnt know that's how the July Daytona race came to be
Though it will be in August next year lol.
Kuku h Yup they put Indianapolis in its place lol... kinda funny how we've sort of gone full circle
Those speeds on skinny tires is insane. This also highlighted the importance of safer barriers.
Ask Cevert and Koinig how safe those barriers were.
Imagine how terrifying it would be to have your car just lose control at 190+ mph as you see the wall getting closer and closer.
Ask Gordon Smiley....
Yea that was a bad crash
in addition to the "angle between the track and the shoulder
I was at that race. My dad took me for my 11 th birthday. We were a USAC family that had moved to south Fl. from Indy. No way we were going to miss it. I have had good and bad memories of that day.
It takes a special kind of man to want to participate in the race immediately after a driver just died in a crash
@SupremeLeader GNKdroid - Imagine what it took to continue running in the 1955 24 hrs. of Le Mans after a driver, and over 80 spectators were killed! Hard to comprehend.
That was a regular occurrence on any given short track back then
I've met barfly drivers who had a trophy case full of DUIs, but if you picked up a DUI on the track at Daytona it would be worth commemorating.
Duncan Hamilton and Tony Rolt won Le Mans while drunk in 1953.
@@skaldlouiscyphre2453 A couple of jolly sporting chaps, those two.
Lmao ya man
I've only ever heard someone like Robin Miller or Dave DeSpain mention this event but until now never heard its history detailed, and it was detailed thoughtfully. Thank you. The dimensions of an IndyCar have changed dramatically since, and safety in racing (but especially IndyCar) has improved lightyears. It it is an intriguing idea to race a DW 12, or is it a DW 19, on the track. But it is not to be taken lightly in light of this history. Beautifully told.
The definition of racing speed danger with those skinny tires
I have been following NASCAR, USAC, F1, etc. for almost 50 years, and I never knew that this type of race had been run at Daytona.
Who won the 1979 f1 drivers and team’s championship
@@Jacob-sy9et Ferrari, Jody..
@@alannewman4818 correct
@@Jacob-sy9et it should be Gilles Villeneuve but he has alot of bad luck in that time specially Zanvoort 1979 punctured tires thus broken suspension after running back to the pits and so on and it gaves Jody Scheckter a chance to fight back and took the 1979 World championship title.
@@Jacob-sy9et
1950-Guiseppe Farina
1951-Juan Manuel Fangio
1952-Alberto Ascari
1953-Alberto Ascari
1954-Juan Manuel Fangio
1955-Juan Manuel Fangio
1956-Juan Manuel Fangio
1957-Juan Manuel Fangio
1958-Mike Hawthorn
1959-Jack Brabham
1960-Jack Brabham
1961-Phil Hill
1962-Graham Hill
1963-Jim Clark
1964-John Surtees
1965-Jim Clark
1966-Jack Brabham
1967-Denny Hulme
1968-Graham Hill
1969-Jackie Stewart
1970-Jochen Rindt
1971-Jackie Stewart
1972-Emerson Fittipaldi
1973-Jackie Stewart
1974-Emerson Fittipaldi
1975-Niki Lauda
1976-James Hunt
1977-Niki Lauda
1978-Mario Andretti
1979-Jody Scheckter
1980-Alan Jones
1981-Nelson Piquet
1982-Keke Rosberg
1983-Nelson Piquet
1984-Niki Lauda
1985-Alain Prost
1986-Alain Prost
1987-Nelson Piquet
1988-Ayrton Senna
1989-Alain Prost
1990-Ayrton Senna
1991-Ayrton Senna
1992-Nigel Mansell
1993-Alain Prost
1994-Michael Schumacher
1995-Michael Schumacher
1996-Damon Hill
1997-Jacques Villenuve
1998-Mika Häkkinen
1999-Mika Häkkinen
2000-Michael Schumacher
2001-Michael Schumacher
2002-Michael Schumacher
2003-Michael Schumacher
2004-Michael Schumacher
2005-Fernando Alonso
2006-Fernando Alonso
2007-Kimi Räikkönen
2008-Lewis Hamilton
2009-Jenson Button
2010-Sebastian Vettel
2011-Sebastian Vettel
2012-Sebastian Vettel
2013-Sebastian Vettel
2014-Lewis Hamilton
2015-Lewis Hamilton
2016-Nico Rosberg
2017-Lewis Hamilton
2018-Lewis Hamilton
2019-Lewis Hamilton
2020-Lewis Hamilton
Project cars: hold my beer
Lol right? Constantly doing 240+ in modern Indycars in that game.
Excellent. This is the best of the old IndyCar videos I've ever watched. Hard to imagine most of this video took place 60 years ago.
ART MALONE! In 1961 claimed Bill France's prize of running over 180 mph at Daytona. Who was Art Malone? Good friend and driver for "Big Daddy" Don Garlits in his Top Fuel dragsters! He not only set this record in '59 at Daytona, he also raced in the Indy 500 (best finish 11th) and was a hell of a drag racer....setting the Top Fuel record in '59 @183 MPH and winning the AHRA world championship. Of all the drivers...Indy, Nascar, Drag racing....Art Malone was at the time the most versatile and skillful, able to drive literally anything to championships and records. Art was, in the end, known mostly to the drag racing world...as a driver and friend of Big Daddy... I am proud to say I saw him race many years ago....
Thank god it’s not happening again because we don’t need more deaths in Today’s IndyCar Series
This was really neat, and I can’t imagine being in an open cockpit with no real coverage. Just way too dangerous!
"they told me to bring it in hot, so i did" hahaha!
I wondered why they never raced open wheeled Indy cars @ Daytona. Today I found that they did and why they do not anymore. Thanks for the historical racing video!
If it was dangerous back then, an IndyCar race at Daytona today would be a bloodbath.
Id rather lose it in one of the new ones. Those things have crumple zones and airbags; these old indycars are turbocharged flying bathtubs. You stuff one of those and you're done.
@John Moses Browning - Air bags? In an Indy car? I don't think so.
@@LoulovesspeedThey don’t put airbags in race cars. They’re dead weight.
@@Trainlover1995 - I am well aware of that! I didn't say that they did, it was JMB7416 above. My reply to him was I don't think so. You need to read more carefully before making stupid replies!
The Guard rail design was the killer...
when they built Daytona the owners probably just hired “Bob’s contracting“ or some shit to build the safety rails Lol
Much respect to the late Mr. Teague and Mr. Amick.
Thank you for putting this on you tube I'm always looking for history of racing
Thanks for posting this. This is the best collection of photos of the Daytona Indycar event that I've seen. The color photo at 11:31 is priceless.
That has been colorized btw
Others times
To me it looks like the banking, speeds and tire technology: They were way in over their heads at this race.
Dude, your videos production value are astounding. So glad to find this channel, keep up the good work.
Those cars looked absolutely awesome on the high banks!
Awesome video dude! Your content is awesome!
Those things were completely solid, they never folded like modern cars do when they crash to absorb most of the impact and that mean the drivers took 100% of the impact. Brave men they were to even dare to race a death trap and +170mph
This was deadly but think of the fear you had barreling down the bumpy brick jusseling the wheel of a roadster into turn 1
@@precesionnoreaster1507 yep, that must’ve been horrifying
They tried racing Indy cars at the Texas Motor Speedway. It’s not banked anywhere close to Daytona. The drivers were complaining of vertigo- like symptoms after just a few laps. These tracks are not designed for IRL type cars.
I see Bill Cheesbourg ran this race, qualifying 12th. I worked for Bill in Tucson Arizona. If there was ANYONE unafraid of the track it would have been Big Bill. Bill was a man's man.
Great video! I always wondered why IndyCar didn't do races in Daytona while NASCAR had races in Indy. Also didn't know that the Firecracker race started because of a cancellation.
Well being they both are owned by the same family I'm sure it didn't take much arm twisting to make it happen.
The way that the INDY car's are built today, it would be a GREAT race to go see.
Just like a TRIPLE row start for ALL of the NASCAR Series races.
Jim Rathman also owned Chevrolet dealers in Cocoa Beach, Florida (near Cape Canaveral) and later, near Houston.
His steadiest clients were astronauts.
Of the Mercury7, John Glenn suppose bought a station wagon from Rathman, but the other six all purchased Corvettes.
The Rathman's were long time owners of a big Pontiac dealership in downtown Orlando...in the 60's/70's it had a big neon Indian Chief's head (Pontiac's symbol back in the day) in front of the dealership that was a real mainstay in Orlando. I bought a Trans-am from them in the early 80's...by then I think the dealership ownership may have changed hands but was still on the same famous footprint.
The final bit mentions the 2009 reunion. Too bad this does not show the presence of the #16 Simoniz Spl that Jim Rathmann won both races with in 1959. Yes, he was present at the reunion but did not drive.
It still shocks me how long it took open wheel, open cockpit cars that raced around other cars didn't have a roll bar.
So that's what started the Coke Zero sugar 400
Good one, it just doesn't have the same ring as "Firecracker 400" for sure.
John Vandeventer the MLB baseball fan 2019 the what
During this lockdown I am able to soak up as much as I can on racing as it was over there in the US. Watched a few of your offerings. Smiley who I watched racing over here in the UK, USAC/CART split etc.... Just wanna say thanks for putting these together.Nicely done and more than informative.
Quite informative. Never knew they raced Indy cars on Daytona.
I never knew USAC Indy raced at Daytona back in '59. Thanks for the video very education to all people and their individual racing tastes. I know I'm paraphrasing this one quote but it goes, if you lose it here "Daytona" your ass is a grape". That about sums up Indy's one shot at Daytona back in the day.
Thanks for providing some history that I wasn't aware of. Great video.
14:24 "Wreckless" driving. The best kind of driving.
A modern F1 or Indy car would put too much g-force on the drivers owing to the combination of banking and aero downforce. They'd be pushing 8+ g's which is possible in a fighter plane when the forces work from top-to-bottom, but when the forces are lateral and continue for most of the lap and then for many laps, the risk of blacking out is too high. If the actual NASCAR's didn't run restrictor plates they'd be hitting 220mph+ which is dangerous enough with 20 cars for 200 miles, but when you have 40+ cars and 500 miles the end result would be death pretty much every race.
would be more fun to watch
Unfortunately, you can't do the trick roller coasters do to avoid blackouts. They intersperse high-G turns with sharp hills, producing negative G's which force blood back into the brain.
@@alaeriia01 Why not? That'd be cool!
@@beachcottage3740 you'd need a crapload of downforce to avoid cars going airborne. Unlike roller coasters, F1 cars aren't locked to the track.
@@alaeriia01 Not locked to the track? Are you sure? Why am I always the last to hear?!
Educational and well presented. 5-Star. I took pictures of the Sumar Specials (and others) that year at Indy.
This didn't happen tho
This feels like it was made 12 years ago, not 3 years ago.
WOW! Great post, thanks. I had no idea.Im stunned that noone showed up or filmed anything what with the speeds and all
That's what I'm surprised about too. Even the first Daytona 500 had camera crews. But this race didn't?
Just bought the NASCAR record book, all race finishes listed. If ya ever needto know anything...
Great video! Great history! Indy roadsters were the coolest machines! The F1 cars of the era couldn't compete! Long live USAC!
high speeds + crap tires = recipe for disaster
I think these conversations are interesting seeing as though they ran Indy type cars on board tracks all over the United Stated States with banking of close to 50 degrees back in the 1920's for the most part. I think I read somewhere that the Talladega banking was 36 degrees and Daytona even less than that. There was a place in New Jersey called the Nutley Velodrome which was the last of the board tracks whose banking was 37 degrees and they ran open cockpit Midgets there for a couple of years and was 1/6 of a mile in length. There are a couple of videos here that depict a couple of those races.
33 for Dega, 31 for Daytona.
Wow! History is a better story than fiction once again. Similar to the CART fiasco at the Texas Motor Speedway in 2001.
Back when the IRL ran I went to the Charlotte race the year before the crash that killed spectators.
On a 1&1/2 mile track they averaged over 200mph during the race with laps between 20 & 21 seconds
Having only seen nascar there prior those speeds blew my mind
The following year I might a night shift job and missed the race the claimed the lives of fans
In my opinion, Indy cars need to stay off of high banks
They’re insanely fast and when it goes south it goes WAY south
Also see the Michigan crash of Adrian Fernandez that led to wheel tethers in CART
That was way awesome to watch. Thanks for doing this.
"The fastest track in the world!" Until 1969 when Talladega opened. 2.66 miles long, 33 degree banks. The track itself is 12 feet wider.
I think a Porsche turned a lap there at about 240 mph.
@@prevost8686
I've always been fascinated by these "closed course" records.
I remember Rusty Wallace in a Penske prepped Cup car, without a restrictor plate, lapped Talladega at 216 mph.
Gil de Ferran got the pole at over 241 mph for a CART race at Fontana.
Mark Donahue lapped at over 221mph in the powerful Porsche 917 CanAm at Talladega.
Best of all, I believe AJ Foyt still has the "closed course" record at over 257mph on the Firestone test track in Texas, driving an experimental aero smooth body adapted to an IndyCar chassis, designed and sponsored by Oldsmobile.
@Wayne Swicegood - Mark Donohue - 1975 ran 221 average and 241 top speed in a Porsche 917-30 Can Am car.
But wasn’t that at Texas World Speedway (College Station TX, not the track near Fort Worth)?
@@2themoon863 yes
I can only imagine what that little screaming Offy 4 cylinder engine sounded like in Teague’s car at 171 miles an hour!
It never ceases to amaze me how crazy racing was in the past. The risks they would take are so totally unimaginable nowadays. Some call them heros, while I think they were maniacs.
It might have been reckless driving, but it definitely wasn't wreckless driving. ;)
Clever
Daytona has years of history amazing video. Thanks 👍.
Read the book "The Limit: Life and Death on the 1961 Grand Prix Circuit" by Michael Cannell to understand the Cavalier attitude towards the lives of the drivers.
I mean just look at F1 racing in the 60-80s, Look at the short but brutal history of Group B Rally, classic racing, was fast, deadly, all together incredibly unsafe
@@DevinEMILE I thought they closed Group B before any major catastrophes? (I know they had one set of driver/navigator killed, but thats still way better than 60's F1, right?)
@@extragoogleaccount6061 Depends on how you define major, but there were a few crashes into spectators on top of the crash in Italy you're describing.
Just can’t believe there is no film, color or black and white, of this race or Amick’s accident. Unbelievable !
Same with Monza. Depending on where you look it is at best rarely used (the banked course) and some suggest that it's defunct and will never be used again.
The beating that the cars and drivers take (mostly a chasssis thing) killed it, regardless of the speed.
It's talked about in the movie "Grand Prix". I can see where they don't use the banked course anymore
There must've someone running a Formula Gran Turismo on Daytona in the GT5/GT6 days. (Hell, they even ran a race in Blue Moon Bay Speedway, a fictional oval based on Pocono, on Japanese Super Formula cars for an esports event).
I've always wondered about this. Very informative. Thanks!
I think that Indycar at Daytona/Talladega could be done nowadays, if they remove the wings (to cut down the downforce and prevent pack racing from happening) and some of the first rows of seats in the grandstands. The only problem would be the horrible transition from the track to the apron.
Excellent video I had not realized this about Daytona and the Indy cars and the crashes and killed drivers in the very beginning of Daytona's sordid history of Fame and Glory buy achieving victory as the most recognized track in the world the Daytona Speedway
It was all about aerodynamics. The cars would lift off the ground due to the shape of the roadsters, which was similar to an aircraft wing, The dirt cars didn't have this problem, but had a lot of aero drag and were slow, compared to the roadsters. The roadster that went 180 mph had a large wing producing downforce, which made it stable.
Back in 1959 the Indy car guys knew little about aerodynamics, unlike today where F1 and Indy car racing is all about aero.
Just think about hitting 165mph in a car designed for 1/4-1 mile dirt tracks...
The aero drag is what kept the dirt cars from spinning and going airborne at Daytona in '59. Of course with the extra drag it made the dirt cars run slower but it had to have made for a better handling car around those long high banked corners and it had to have made for happier drivers not having to work as hard as the roadster drivers barely hanging on for dear life!
In a longer event it could actually have been very interesting, a battle of endurance. The roadster drivers crashing out or getting too exhausted vs. the dirt cars' engines possibly developing problems due to exceeding their design limits.
After all, the fastest dirt car was 'only' 11mph slower than the fastest car so on the long run it could've worked. Of course a longer event would've probably meant more serious crashes too.
My dad finished that race!
Prove it.
Back when men were men and toted their stones in a wheel barrow...….Excellent Video!
Kyle Larson is one of us.
Reading some of the newspaper articles, I noticed they were called "speedway cars", not "Indy cars".
@99percenter1 - From Indianapolis Motor Speedway, a name that still stands today!
Only place for this now is NR2003. But jeez this was something else...
Forza 7 has IndyCar and Daytona
@@minigungaming5915 As does ProjectCARS 2.
Wait, Hudson Hornet was an actual car? Yeah, I've watched the Cars movies, I thought it was made up!
@TheLazyWanderer - The Hudson Motor Co. built the Hornet model in the fifties and it helped popularize the early years of NASCAR. Its legendary straight six managed to blow off the V8s of the time and this got the attention of everyone. Hudson later became American Motors or AMC.
They were also one of, if not the smoothest driving american cars at the time. My grandad had one and it was glorious until my dad and uncles worked on it. Then it was demonic. I was too young to remember all of what they did to it, but I remember that they "found" the engine at an airport, the new springs they threw in the back meant it could carry a lot of "Mexican Hay" in the trunk without sitting too low...
Those guys had brass balls.
In today's day and age, while the Superspeedway may be too dangerous, I would like to see IndyCar try to run on the infield road course. (Or Roval. Whatever you want to call it.) Even if it's just an exhibition race.
IndyCar did a test on the Roval a while back (2007?)
Fun USAC History...
The "SUMAR Special" is still honored with the running (not in 2021) of the " Sumar Classic" at Terre Haute, Indiana for Silver Crown.
Pat O'Connor has a memorial race as well, alongside Joe James namesake for an annual Open Wheel show held at Salem, Indiana.
Indycars on the road course would be quite interesting.
You could have the 24hrs of Daytona, followed by the Indycars, then the 500 spaced out by a few weekends.
Wouldn't that be something.
As much as I thought that was a good idea, I don’t think it’s possible because of the high speeds and progressive banking
Just happened at Texas motor speedway the g-forces was too great for the drivers they quit during qualifying
That was wonderfully done !
Lets build a track so bloody fast it will kill you if you mess up.At the time it really was crazy to go that fast on a track.
Nice work!
@9:07 the sub-headline wrote of driver Bob Veith. I recall he gave a school assembly talk at my high school in the late 1960s; as he was, I believe, working for Champion Spark Plugs for a safety driving program for teens. I recall he briefly mentioned in his talk about this race he was in, with speeds approaching a remarkable 170 mph, where a lap belt saved his life in a crash on that track.
Veith may have mentioned about that as his way to illustrate the importance of wearing the seat belt in a passenger car.
I maybe wrong but I was once told that the Darlington track was built for Indy cars and Sprint cars.
You and Slapshoes (I know you've worked together) are doing racing videos right. NASCAR should definitely snatch one of you guys up to run an official NASCAR history Channel to keep the amazing history of the sport alive!
SuprChickn 77 I agree, I am not even a NASCAR fan. However, I am a big history buff and I have been binge watching both of these creators content. It’s just so well put together and interesting.
I know I'm Gonna Get crushed but I just learned the Hudson Hornet was a real car.
😂😂😂😂😂
😂😂😂😂😂
Just wait till you find out about the Chevrolet Lightning
This was an early wake-up call for Talladega, but nobody set the alarm......the same cars had raced at MONZA and had none of these problems.
1:53 PROOF that Batman raced Indy cars before he turned to the relatively safer job of fighting crime.
It speaks for itself
Given the success of Rovals, like Charlotte, the only way I can see Indycar potentially returning to Daytona is on the road course
A.J foyt slammed into the armco barrier at Michigan international Speedway in 1981 and almost lost his arm.
In 2000 Paul Tracey of CART set the One lap qualifying record of an *AVERAGE* of 234.94 Miles an hour, which is just stupid fast and way too dangerous.
In 1998 at a CART race a crash killed 3 spectators and injured 6 after debris went into the crowd.
I'd say Michigan International Speedway is probably the most dangerous overall track still in use, and because of the lack of Restrictor plates Nascar Stockcars routinely enter corneres at 215-220 MPH making it the fastest track on the schedule.
Though nothing truly compares to langhorn Speedway in terms of dangerous tracks
I've run indy cars at Daytona and Talladega on iRacing. Pretty crazy.
Dave what happened?
So did you fall out of your chair and bust your ass on the carpet?
Fascinating I had no idea they raced Indy cars at Daytona
Bill France was nuts for doing this. Can't imagine taking the risk of killing somebody for a publicity stunt.
twistedyogert look up the 1969 Talladega 500
I wish they still raced there.
It's still far too dangerous. NASCAR catch fences act like cheese graters when an IndyCar hits them. It killed Dan Wheldon at Las Vegas a few years ago, and that's a full mile shorter.
There would be like 30 deaths in 1 race
There's stories and death at Talladega - so much NASCAR history out there
Those 50s 60s indy car drivers were fucking bad ass.
Idk if you knowingly do this, but you sound like the announcers from back in the day who did recaps on things like this just as you are with historic events. I really appreciate that, and hopefully the bad quality mic was part of all of it hahaha
Isle of Man TT - unfortunately is more dangerous, but it is not a track. It is town roads where racers turn left AND right.
What kind of madman thought Indycar On Daytona would be ok?
Big Bill France