The show does a bad job with explaining time. It would conceivably take days for the ice to freeze over enough for the wights to be able to walk on it. It would take roughly the same amount of time for the raven to get south and Dany to get North. But they make it seem like one night. All they needed was a throwaway line from the Hound while throwing rocks that said "we've been here for days" and boom, you've created context of how long they've been stuck on that rock. The writers are getting lazy.
@Lurkingposter Yes, which is why they should have used the fact that Jon is a targ and has a link with the dragons to have them react to him being in danger (the way Drogon showed up to help Dany in the Mereen fighting pit) so Dany could figure it out and leave right away without needing to wait for gendry or a raven.
I don't understand why the Nights King threw his spear at a moving flying Dragon when he had a stationary one with people on top right in front of him.
*Cenk pre-Season 7 for multiple seasons since they started reviewing GoT* "Everyone should stop worrying about themselves! Winter is coming! Everyone should be focusing on The Wall! Nothing else matters!" *Cenk post-Season 7* "Why is this show heading towards the white walkers and zombies with everyone banding together to fight them? There's nothing interesting there."
It's not just Cersei they need to make believe. It's everyone, besides the northerners and the Vale. All the other people from the south think the white walkers never even existed. So they are bringing this thing to show all the lord of westeros not just Cersei.
I was yelling this at Cenk the entire time. Even Dany only comes because of her lady-boner for Jon, she didn't buy any of this until she saw it for herself.
That isn't what Tyrion said. He said he will bring a wight to convince Cersei into an armistice so Dany will be free to go north. You're just being dishonest with your apologetics.
Nii no. Why do you think Cersei sent a letter to winterfell and Sansa had brienne go. She sent letters to all the great houses to come to this meeting. It's not just for Cersei.
hahaha lady-boner. ya. i cant believe these reviewers can not see the most obvious reasons behind all this. like They bringing zombie to prove to all lords of westros, Sansa sent Brienie bcoz she want do something against arya and brienie cud have stop it, they sent gendry bcoz he can be useful to them only this way otherwise he is inexperienced in fighting and he cud be faster if he do not have to carry weapon and taking care zombie, whole process do actually took like 1 to 3 days they just did not explained time very well, arya was not being crazy she was playing game of truth in which driving her sister desperate to reveal her true feelings & motives.
I literally cried when Dany showed up with all 3 dragons and saved those asses! Everytime she rides drogon, I tear up cause the characters are built up so well. It makes you literally feel every individual character with mad emotions!
Last week, I said this show definitely does have a hero shield, and everyone got on my shit. Do you believe me now after Gendry, the fastest man on snow sprinted to the wall in five minutes so the night's watch could send the fastest raven's in the realm to Dany so she could bring dragons ex machina followed by Jon surviving his swim thanks to his +10 thermal plot armour and being saved by coldhands whose entire character in the show is to bring deus ex machina north of the wall? Love the show, but this episode was a letdown. The penultimate episode of a GoT season has always been the dreaded episode. It's always been a season highlight where we get gutted by the loss of a beloved character or a totally awesome battle scene. What's we get this time? The weakest episode of the season that resulted in the loss of a dragon we know nothing about, thoros who's cool but had deadman written on his forehead, and benjen who's been in what 3 episodes? Weak
Not Austin Trott wouls you rather have a full episode of gendry running to the wall? Indidnt see people complain in season 1. "Oh no it took ned 2 episodes to get to kings landing but catelyn got there in one!. Shows garbage"
They don't have to be more than a couple miles from the wall at any time in this, man. They're just wandering around looking for WWs, just think about the fact that Dany is still at castle black when jon gets there, he got there in a matter of hours too having to avoid the entire horde and including however far they had traveled after gendry left. The 9th episode isn't always a big one, last season it was the last. 3 times its been the case, now you want that to be predictable but not the plot, okay snowflake. Benjen's actual plot (coldhands mystery) is skipped by the show, but they had to include this part because it wouldn't make sense for Jon to survive without him. There are some problems with this episode, but you're jumping onto a bandwagon that you can't even catch up to with these slow-witted gripes.
Alfa . They don't make sense of it though. How long did the seven stay out on that rock? Days and days if we are to calculate. How did they keep warm? What did they eat? The writers no longer give a shit about logic and it's ruining people's suspension of disbelief. The show should not have had shortened seasons, rather extended ones.
Yes, insult Americans, because that makes you look "so cool" to the European crowd. When you cram 10 episodes into a 7 episode frame some shit just isn't going to make sense. Ignorance is bliss. I really wish I couldn't pay attention to detail like some of you fanboys...
People fell in love with GoT because it was unpredictable by subverting storytelling tropes and convention. Now it just sticks to them with plot armor devices, deus ex machinas, and contrivances.
That's not really a valid complaint though. The reason why plot armor, tropes, deus ex machina, and contrivances exist is because in many cases a story can't be told without at least some of these things. There's a reason they're considered tropes after all, its because a story isn't a story without some of them.
It's pretty obvious now that without George RR Martin's novels the show makers are resorting to film school tropes and cliches. I feared that this would happen. When they were freezing on that rock and kept thinking "gee, if only someone could create fire... oh yeah, dipshit with the sword can!". I'm sick of the hero shield too, it all seems like it's being made by non-brilliant people that merely went to film school and memorized show making formulas. This season has been terrible so far and I couldn't give 2 fucks about Sansa and Arya's squabble. I'm starting to get the feeling that George RR Martin is giving inaccurate guidance so he can blow our minds with the novels. That's something that he would do.
Or the story was always going to be Zombies vs humans which GRRM wrote and told them. No GRRM isnt giving inaccurate guidance because he is working with HBO on multiple shows and they got tons of prequels coming he worked on and new shows. It you idiots that think Song of Fire and Ice would be anything more when it was always going to be a Fantasy story in how it ends.
i was willing to buy john snow being immortal and coming out of the freezing water....but then getting rushed by the whitewalkers and benjun coming in at the last minute to save him- that is some bullshit.
so raven flew from north of the wall to blackwater bay in less than hours (lul), dany flew from blackwater to north of the wall in less than an hour (fast dragons lul), white walker throws spear at the dragon that's flying, not dragon who's sitting still with dany on it (-_-), john got dragged into water but survived (magically), and got saved by benjin (magically) who refused to get on the horse with john because there is no time (lul),..and many other issues, agh, they just got so sloppy
You're not very bright are you? I expect this from Cenk's stupid ass, but you're a commenter, you're supposed to actually think before posting. A raven flew from castle black to dragonstone, in a whole night, and dany gets there a half a day later, its a little fast on the dragon flight, but not ridiculously so. The NK killed the dragon attacking, protecting his troops, notice the other dragon and Drogon are not threats at that moment. Benjin can't cross the wall's enchantments, why the fuck do you think he's still hanging out right on the outside of it? He's a good wight, turned by the children, but he's still bound by the same magic. Maybe you thought he should explain that to Jon as the wights were stabbing them?
You're projecting your lack of intelligence on him. Raven can't fly 2000 miles in a whole night. Dany can't get 2000 miles in half a day. (Fix. Have Dany fly to Eastwatch cause she is worried about Jon and Jorah) The NK could have killed Drogon. Then killed the other 2 dragon. That was merely a fraction of his army. All the writers simply had to do was have Viserion fly in and attack the night king to protect Drogon. Benjin couldn't cross the wall when he rescued Meera and Bran. Yet he still did. How did he do that?
I agree. There were so many terrible writing moments in this episode that could have easily been fixed. That entire scene with the chain and the scuba diving wights. Simply have the fucking dragon crash on land.
Well we don't know too much about the speed and such of Ravens. I know a Carrier Pigeon would be able to fly 2000 miles in roughly 2 days. We have no real reference for how fast Dragons can fly, but if a Carrier Pigeon can make the trip in 2 days then a Dragon should be able to do it in at least half the time. So yeah, the time almost meets up but kinda doesn't. I don't know about the Night King though. He stared DIRECTLY at Danny like two or three times before killing one of her dragons. It honestly felt like he was trying to show off to her, sort of like what he did with Jon at Hardhome. I feel like there is just more story going on behind the scenes with the Night King that makes him more than just a "Mindlessly kill all humans" sort of villain.
A few lines in the script could completely elevate the episode. It first shows that the night king on a mountain top saw Gentry running . Then the magnificent seven would be surrendered by the army of the dead. Instead of the stupid ice breaking thing, Hound would ask, "why are these counts attacking." Jon would reply, " I don't know... they are waiting." then Jon realizes the mistake they just made, the night king is actually trying to lure dragons to rescue them.
Sansa sent Brianne away because, like Little Finger said, she is sworn to protect BOTH of them. So, if one of them wanted to get rid of the other, Brianne would stop it. Perhaps Sansa sent Brianne away because she plans to take care of Arya...
Uncle Benjen coming to save Jon Snow actually makes sense. It's not just a shitty way to close up his plot line. It's foreshadowing the fact that Bran has actually learned how to control becoming the Three-eyed Raven. When Benjen comes and saves Bran and Meera, he states that the Three-eyed Raven had sent for him. We can only assume that the original Three-eyed Raven did this through some sort of supernatural communication, which has precedence via Bran communicating with Hodor. So, somehow, Bran learned how to communicate with him using his powers, and sent him to save Jon. - GoT Reddit
I love the fact that Dany, pointed out Jon Snow is much shorter than all her previous suitors in the show. You know what they say in Westeros. Once you go Dothraki, you don't go backy lol.
Some of the predictability of this season is due to the lack of GRRM's source material. But that source material has been gone for a couple years in many plot lines and people weren't complaining this much about predictability. A big part of this complaint, I suspect, is the fact that scripts have been leaked and channels on youtube are giving out spoilers even when they claim they're just "theorizing." It's priming the audience to have a pretty good idea what's going to happen.
Dany didn't believe them man, think about for half a sec. They send for her help, that's the only reason she came, her ladyboner for Jon. Maybe you think Jon should have asked to borrow one of her kids? Jumping on the bandwagon doesn't take much effort around here it seems.
If Dany didn't believe them, why did she let them go, why the fuck did she let Jorah go? To die in the cold after returning to her from certain death? She would do that wouldn't she the cold bitch... She loves flying her Dragon, why not have a look at her precious kingdoms and beyond the wall? Instead she just sits at Dragonstone doing nothing. God's help you writers, now you are truly lost.
Drag a terminally ill person to the wall. Slice his throat...wait for X-time until it turns into a wight. Bind it beforehand of course. Drag it back south. Solved.
Where was Bran, his whole deal is the war with the White Walkers and the Whites. He could have sent a raven even before anyone thought of this incredibly stupid and useless plan that gives them a ice dragon. This was a pretty big ticket item not to have seen as the three eyed raven. Also, Jaws is one of the best films of all time, the beauty lies in the social and political interactions of different characters in a small coastal community.
Bran doesn't have any control over what he sees, I think the show is just bad at giving us some of the insights they pound into us in the books. The Three Eyed raven was essentially a slave to the hivemind of the tree basically sleeping his life away in a stream of other people's dreams. Him being so lucid in the show was weird, but I guess necessary to give us the transition we needed to get Bran into the role. He's no nice sensei, he's a human battery for dead minds to live in.
Nope! about Sansa I like to BELIVE she, at this point is smarter then we think. I think Sansa is trying to block Little Fingers play by sending Briann away. Because if she stays Finger will use Briann on his next move. He may try to kill Aria, set and blame Briann, have Briann beheaded and then "he would have Sansa to him self" To manipulate
These guys are going to DESPISE the final season if they're complaining about this episode. What do you think the final season is going to be about? It'll be this episode times ten. Cenk seems to think his show transcends above all others, but in the end it's just a show. It's prone to mistakes and cliches. So when those things happen, he's completely let down. And the worst is Cenk, which has been his problem this entire series. He's not in this for the white walkers, zombies, and dragons; he's in this for the political shit, and all of that is now ending. Cenk is really going to hate the final season.
Yeah I work with a guy like this- I hate the Dragons and the White walkers... He only likes the political intrigue stuff. I tell him I like the show as a whole and knew we were coming to a point where it basically going to be dungeons and dragons and I wasn't sure how he didn't see this coming? This narrative has been ever present since season one. There were problems with this episode to be sure- Brien being sent away seemed to be very dumb unless Sansa does want to kill Ariea no other reason for it, Giant chains on the dragon... got from where? put there by whom? The Dragon arriving just in time to save the day! ...and Tyrion seeming to become more and more mentally challenged.... this whole season actually(has he done ANYTHING this season to live up to his supposed genius?) Still loved the episode though! Fun stuff and nothing is perfect.
I really don't get why they didn't have them try to convince Daenerys rather than Cersei. You have Jon meet Daenerys, they do the whole bending the knee thing, and at the end Danny goes "look, I'm not tossing this whole thing aside on the word of a stranger, I'd trust Tyrion, but he's been fucking up lately". Jon, being the brave idiot that he is, then goes "Well, what if I go out there and bring you a dead guy, then will you believe me?" It'd even be a tad bit romantic, in a way, and we as the audience believe she can be convinced (rather than Cersei). Just before they leave, Davos asks for one of Varys's ravens ("the fastest in the 7 kingdoms or some shit"), because eastwatch, being a newly refubished tiny outpost, doesn't have any. Then you do the things. Once they're trapped, Jon sends out the raven with a cry for help (hoping Daenerys will alert someone else). Tyrion lets Danny know that no one will be able to reach them in time. "It's sad, but there's nothing we can do". Then, cut to the scene with the Hound throwing the rock, and just as they're about to get swarmed, Danny swoops in and saves them. The rest plays out the same way, only we get rid of the silly scene with John drowning. Honestly, it serves no purpose. He's back at eastwatch with the rest of them in like 10 minutes of screentime.
The night king knew dany was bringing her dragons, that's why his army was so patient. The hound and his rock throwing.. The chain store open past the wall.. Gendry turning into Usain bolt... Dragons are asexual, time to make more dragons I think I covered everything.
HitchensImmortal not just that but where they get four or five or six of said chains. Even if the Army had one they can't explain where they've got I believe at least four to five of them
the WW's are getting ready to assault a giant wall a chain is pretty help for pulling things down... remember, they've already sacked entire cities of wildfolk, who craft plenty of metal from the looks of their gear
OMG! THIS IS A FANTASY! there is magic, dragons, ice kings, thrones of dragon moulded swords.... and you all are having a fit because the prophesies are coming true? IT'S FUN, quit complaining.
Death pays for life ..... it's how Dany was able to hatch the dragons. Now that Viserion is dead she will be able to have a baby. In this episode they discussed her succession, mentioned she couldn't have kids twice, mentioned that jons sword will be passed to his children.... there's def a baby coming people
Dany's reaction to one of her "children" dying was less than her sadness at having to leave Jon Snow. Not a single tear was shed, it was just shock without sadness like she attached to them at all.
Wights (the foot soldier zombies) die from fire. Fire doesn't do too much to White Walkers (icey folk who are really in charge) as far as we've seen. Only dragon glass and valyrian steel has been proven to kill them. If anything, we've seen them tell fire to fuck off multiple times... Plus, I don't know how focused I'd be on the mysteries of whether or not I can take out the magical ice guys I've never seen and have to find down there somewhere when I can clearly see a fuckload of zombie guys surrounding a bunch of friends of mine...Priorities, you know?
They keep going on about why didn't Dany attack the white walker bosses directly with fire, but would that actually have any effect? It's been clearly shown at least twice now a white walker boss walking through fire (Hardhome), or over it and they're clearly not phased by it whatsoever, in fact the fire retreats from them. I'm not sure about dragon fire though.
All I have to say is, I agree with Cenk, 100% right, Ana is coked up (Don't go too far, Ana), Ben is over it... This show is clearly doing fan service and nothing else with the special effects, and have totally abandoned storylines and writing what makes sense. The show is over. I'll keep watching but, I don't care anymore. Really? NONE of those guys got killed? Daenerys Targeryen says "He's too little for me" or whatever. Really? These diminishing to character "Gossip girl" moments, like talking about Greyworm with Missandae and blushing nonsense. I am a woman and this is romance novel bullshit! The hero showing up at the last minute is cheap, poor story writing. I saw the episode when it was leaked and I tried watching it again with hopes to change my opinion, but I can't be bothered with this nonsense. Dany is suddenly a typical current day teen girl, just gossiping, while we have 5 episodes where she demands people bend the knee?
the raven part really annoyed me. it would take a few days for gendry to get to the wall, a raven to get to dany and dany to fly her dragons in...so that would mean the boys were in the cold surrounded for days before dany got there at just the right moment...that is just fucking ridiculous
While not every critique they had was fair, Cenk was dead on regarding this episode being very un-GOT-like. The famed battle vs the White Walkers was Generic adventure flick crap. In comparison to Hardhome or Battle of the Bastards, it was absolute garbage. And I'm not just talking general writing problems -- the direction in this episode was incredibly phoned in.
My favorite lines were when Tormund is talking to Gendry about freezing his dick off. Tormund says "Walking is good, Fighting better, Fucking the best." Gendry says "There isn't a woman within 1000 miles of here." Tormund says "Sometimes you have to do with what you've got!"
THANK YOU! People are gushing over this episode and you just addressed my issues with in the first 5 mins. Stupid plan in the first place, same old last-minute rescues, ravens fitted with rocket packs, Gendry legging it across uneven & unfamiliar terrain in record time, the maiden voyage of dragon airlines with extra legroom etc. It was a lazy episode.
I hope that stupid plan form Tyrion was just to get close to Cersei and he has another trick up his sleeve. I really can't stand how stupid the ´bring a wight to Cersei to convince her´ plan is, hopefully there is more to it.
I think you can answer the question, "Why didn't Dany use the dragons on the Night King and his generals?" Pretty easily with the fact that she didn't know to do that. Throughout her entire time in Westeros, we've never seen her being told "This is what the Night King looks like, kill on sight" or anything like that. Also, Gendry ran off, only aware of the fact that his group was being surrounded by white walkers and never saw the Night King himself, thus never being able to mention that to Dany through the raven. IMO she just didn't know.
Richter Aurelian if somebody had just thrown a spear with the force of a rocket and killed my dragon then lined up to throw another, I think I'd want to avoid him.
We use those too, whinging means the same thing but possibly implies an extra level of pathetic. This is just one of those words that I assumed all English speakers used had no idea it was idiom.
i am a hermit who interfaces with humanity only through television, and i knew what whinging means, and only consume the predominant culture of american television so i just assumed americans must use it too. But i guess not.
I actually can't believe they don't know what whinging is, and I'm American. I guess it happens sometimes with some words! Same with pronouncing words you've only ever read and never heard aloud.
I had heard they didn't use it,but was surprised to hear recently that Yanks don't say fortnight.I must check who wrote the script for the episode,they couldn't have said bitching as it would have sounded too modern,so I suppose it was going to be whining or whinging.
My biggest gripes is that they could have used one of their friends who died from a dead bear as the white walker since he would have eventually turned! In fact Danerys could have flown in on a dragon and grabbed one rather then the LITERAL Suicide Squad risk their lives! Benjen teleporting towards Jon Snow not knowing at all where he was just felt forced! Both of them could have fit on the horse by the way! Also Jon would have died in that Ice Water! The Dead having chains didn't bother me as much as how did they get into the water to connect it to the dragon! THEY CAN'T SWIM! Also no major character dying besides the dragon just bugged me a little but not enough to take me out of it.
Littlefinger was intimating that Brienne might take Arya's side if things came to blows, so Sansa sends Brienne away, weakening their power base cause thats what Littlefinger wants. Surprised none of the 4 of you got that, it wasn't directly explained but if you think about it at all that's the explanation.
No matter how many shocking deaths that have occurred in previous seasons, I've always believed that it would level off near the end and the good guys would start to win. This really isn't that much of a surprise to me.
I 100% agree with nearly everything said. The show. While still fun to watch has changed for the worse, and it's so incredibly blatant. This season is unlike any before it in so many ways. It's like they got rid of a fearless and intelligent writing staff and replaced all of them with people who write for every other show on television. The show is no longer unpredictable and realistic. Seriously. I thought I was pissed when Jamie was pulled out of the lake. But I got way more pissed when Tormund survived. Then Jorah...Then Jon. ugh. Such bullshit. Then it looked like Arya was going to kill Sansa. I thought to myself "waitaminute...wha? This is the game of thrones I know and love! Hell yes! That's unpredictable yet in line with what was being set up!...oh...She doesnt kill her?...oh...well...that's like every other show on television...how boring...". The people denying that the show has changed in this degree are in complete denial.
so...: - How did Daenerys get there so fast? - How come red shirts were dying in 1 second from wights and Tormund was OK after 30 seconds of being covered in them? - Why didn't the Night King spear Drogon, as he was much closer and stationary - Why didn't Jon get on the dragon? - How come, all of a sudden, everybody and their grandmother can ride the dragon like it's a bus? - How did Jon survive under freezing water for like... 20 minutes? - Why didn't Benjen ex Machina climb on the horse with Jon? - Where did "Dany" come from all of a sudden? - Where did the white walkers get all those heavy chains? ... did I forget anything
Gendry is now apparently a Kenyon long distance runner, in heavy snow and over mountains. Forget the dragons getting there so fast, what about that Raven that flew to Dragonstone. That Raven is the MVP of this episode.
1. Have Dany at the wall. Her friend and close allies are going off on a suicide mission so have her on standby in case they get into trouble. She doesnt even need all three dragons. Just leave rhaegal behind to protect dragonstone. 2. Have benjen come in to save them when they are against the polar bear. Gives him more screen time and a proper reunion with jon. 3. When they are being rushed by white walkers, make gendry take benjens horse to alert dany at the wall. Like hes not the flash now. They walked for a day at least and he ran it in a couple hours. 4. When walkers start to close in on remaining troop while crossing lake, viserion is holding off the army while everyoneclimb on drogon. Jon falls through ice into lake, benjen grabs him before he sinks. Night king comes in and takes out viserion (the closest dragon to him). Viserion falls to ground, benjen understands that someone has to light viserion on fire. Jon is put on drogon and they fly off with uncle benji left behind charging back with fiery flaming thing only to get stopped before reaching viserions body by the night king. A failed sacrifice but a fitting end.
The events of the episode could've conceivably happened within a day or two (they could've been close to the wall, which explains why Gendry reached The Wall so quickly, the Raven could've been very fast - Ravens have traveled multiple times during the time span of an episode before- and I have no doubt the dragons are fast), but the time wasn't very well established. I get it, there's only seven episodes this season, and the pacing must be faster. However, they need to do a better job at explaining it. Also, the deus ex machina is stupid, and Benjen dying was stupid. There was no reason for him not to get on that horse too.
realmattcooke I wonder if Gendry sprinting to Eastwatch was inspired by the messenger who sprinted miles without stopping to pass a message for the Spartans.
They may have had six movies worth of screen time to wrap the series up, but they didn't have six movies worth of preproduction time to do it with. It takes George RR Martin 5-7 years to turn his outline into a book because he'll keep throwing things out that require people to teleport and have hero shields. They simply didn't have the time to keep rewriting until they could hit Martin's key points without having to resort to this kind of stuff.
About the time issue. They clearly show that at least a day passes. They sleep and when they wake up thoros is is dead. About the dragons arriving we are already prepped with the sending a raven. They asked for help and they basically waited the whole day and night for help to arrive.
Agreed 100% The show did a bad job of indicating time passing on the island, but that's it. People in this comment section pretend like we're forced to accept lightspeed ravens and dany should be dead after the flight. We don't even really have a good sense for how long its been since Gendry left, maybe he gets there quickly because they weren't that far, they're just wandering anyway. 2 days for 500 miles isn't fast.
Instead of the 4000 mile round trip. Why not simply have Dany near Eastwatch cause she was worried about JOn and Jorah. Tada. I just easily fixed a huge plot hole
The mystery of the chains used to pull the dragon out of the lake has been solved. Go back to right after the dragon's head pops up out of the ice. There is a close up of what appears to be a dock in the lake, with chains on the dock. Apparently this was some sort of abandoned port for ships....or a ruin of one. The bigger issue is how did the wights go underwater to hook up the chains to the dragon? If they can do this, they should have no problem walking into the ocean and going around the wall at Eastwatch.
Hypothermia doesn't exist in Game of thrones world. They don't need to heat up with fire right away after being exposed to below zero water with no frostbite. They just instantly gets up and walk around like Jamie and ride a horse like jon snow. I guess in the north where they kept telling us, winter is the worst in that part of the realm, through 7 Year run of the show is hogwash, a ruse, a ball got dropped situation with the inconsistency of the writing. Jon should have died when he fell in the ice cold water in the north and gets brought back to life by his assistant, smuggler; forgot his name. Instead of crawling out of the water for a more coherent story. Even a jedi like Luke Skywalker almost died of hypothermia in the blizzard, but han saves him with the heat of the innards by putting luke in the belly of his mount immediately after he was found to keep him alive. Now we see that this much deviation from the original writing of George RR Martin is starting to show big time in a negative way. When HBO caught up with the books, they took over writing, it seems so because it's so glaringly different. GOT went down the toilet story telling wise, script wise. HBO thought they can cook up a pot of GOT greatness with different ingredients and replicate the greatness of George RR Martins' story telling. Just betting on the fact that they've gather all their fans in the years and got them hooked by now will continue to watch like an addict. I am not a book reader, but now I understand what they complain about when they see the inconsistency before it got this bad. I'm too invested now to quit watching GOT. It just feels like now we're getting force fed with our favorite food that we used to love, but have become stale to our palette.
keytrixz Remember back in series 1, when Alliser Thorne scared the crap out of Sam and Jon telling them about all the hardships he had to endure while out ranging during the last winter? Frost, hypothermia, darkness, death, cold and cannibalism... you'd think these sorts of things would carry over in a ranging expedition taking place in the land of always winter, during a winter most agree will be the worst in living memory. The writers just don't care about the details.
Adam Hodgkinson Yup I agree with you 100%. I remember that scene. I hope for season 8, last season, they try to remember what made the show great. Let's get back to heroes dying without us knowing which one will go first, unpredictable, for the love of Ned Stark. The long night is here. Also I hope they don't leave the fans in the air storytelling wise with a cliffhanger; that would be a smack in the face.
Thank god these guys ripped this episode. I was thinking that some of them might be blinded by the hype, but it's good to see that the disappointing shortcomings are acknowledged.
could you please just learn the difference between wights (reanimated corpses, able to get killed by fire) and white walkers (alive - originally created by the children of the forest, lead by the night king and further from Craster's abandoned babies, able to get killed by dragon glass or valyrian steel) - frustrating to hear you all constantly mix up the terminology
It's so much bad writing that could have easily been fixed. 1. Don't have all the wights die but 1. Have 4 or 5 survive. Kill them. Keep 1 2. Have Dany near Eastwatch. She was worried about Jon and Jorah. Or some reason. 3. Have Viserion go to attack the night king to protect Drogon. Night King has to spear Viserion instead of not hitting an easy more valuable target. 4. Have the fucking dragon crash on the land to avoid the stupid chain scene 5. Have Benjin fall or get knocked off the horse This is just off the top of my head
So let me get this straight the most honorable man in Game of Thrones Ned Stark gets his head chopped off because of some bullshit. Then his son tries to avenge him and it ends up getting him, his wife, his mom and his unborn child killed. Then we wait for over 3 years for the Starks to get back together and when they finally do there is extreme tension between Arya and Sansa and bran is a cold mother fucker! Why does George hate the starks?
i will love when books will follow similar plotlines and "fans" that shit on the show will eat GRRM's d*ck and love it (if he is able to finish the books and dont die)
Even if the outlines are similar the writing will be far better. And George has already stated that the books and the show are different now and shouldn't be compared.
Arya and Sansa have always had a rough relationship, if you remember the first season they kinda hated each other and fought a lot. So their storyline is rather unsurprising, especially considering that Sansa went to the Cersei & Littlefinger school for crazy and Arya is a murder machine. Bran is just that kid at the party who did WAAAAAY too much acid right at the beginning and now just sits in the corner seeing the universe.
They don't get it. The dragon was killed so John Snow then went to fight his way through to the knight king. That was his first impulse, revenge for the dragons deaths. That is why he went away from Drogon and you see that is part of the reason why Danny was falling for him.
This is so sad... just remember the red wedding, THAT was game of thrones Jon's death Jaime getting his hand cut off Ned Stark's death Joffrey's death Tywin's death OBERYN's DEATH(damn that was incredible) Shireen's death We didn't know what to expect, now everything gets resolved so easy... "OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" "DON'T WORRY THE DRAGONS ARE COMING"
They are unable to kill their main characters. Now they are killing red shirts. So since Season 4 they are just not pulling the trigger and that's a problem. And as many are saying, this show is now rushed due to their needing to film fewer episodes. That sucks. Still an amazing show.
Everything Wrong with the episode Unless Arya is the waif her dialogue makes no sense That raven deservers a medal for breaking the sound barrier to get to dragonstone that fast Dragonstones telaport machines are working overtime The Hound MVP for the whitewalker army(I'll let that one slide since it's in character) The Night King looked at Drogon decided nah I'll not attack the humans I'll go for Viserion The Night King making Ice Chains that best have been weeks of hard work Benjen Stark out of nowhere Benjen gets off the horse They apparently sat on the frozen lake for weeks......they should have died I'm assuming Lord of Light magic for the swords so I don't mind it. Winds of Winter better fix this trash
Check it out, little Obama. The starks are very obviously playing LF with all this, maybe you forgot about the Pack Survives taglines? A raven can definitely get to dragonstone in a day and we can assume dany hauls ass and makes it in a day as well, given the ice has to refreeze, 2 days on that island isn't weird, they just didn't explain it well. Visearon is attacking, that's why he got the bolt. Watch it again, Reagal (or whatever) is way out coming around for another pass while Dany and Drogon aren't attacking anymore because they're loading people on, right then Vis is the only threat and wham. Benjen just hangs our near the wall, he probably followed the expedition this whole time. He thinks he can't cross the wall because he doesn't know Bran fucked up the enchantment. Maybe you think he should have explained all that to Jon while the wights stabbed them in the faces? it was definitely a weak episode, but you're just wrong in half your bitching. Get off the bandwagon if it's moving to fast for you.
a ravens max speed is 60mph they should have died waiting on the rock considering the books describe the cold the others bring as barely breathable so they should have died speaking for tactics wights are disposable so yes Drogon would have been the better target, if they end up playing little finger which I believe they are doing I'll concede that, Gendry obtained the speedforce Benjen was too close for comfort the episode was enjoyable no-one will debate that but heck tourmand should have died why would a Wight hold a blade to his neck instead of going for the kill maybe someone who would refer to a black person as little Obama is idiotic enough to blind themselves to logical fallacies and dues ex machinas and but someone who truly loves the source material will point out these flaws
The plot holes and dumb character decisions in the season are getting ridiculous. Rewatch season 1 and compare the writing to the current one, the difference in quality is insane. Also, Jon should have died from hypothermia after falling in ice water and riding through a blizzard. There's absolutely no excuse for that not happening. If the writers keep this up the show will end as badly as Dexter did.
Joseph Davidson nitpicking would be looking at stuff like costume design or minute book differences Martin is master of crafting the world and establishing time is something he's been amazing at the show isn't doing it justice in major ways in addition to time scaling by criticism they can improve
Jonathan Meddis 🤔hhuuummm! " Prinsesa👸🏽 " 🗣 i have heard this through the tangled grapevines🍇 of RUclips however.. scripts can change my friend, so im not completely sold, nevertheless it's entertaining!🙆🏽
There are multiple shots of the dead or dying dragon where you can see yellowish bright spots on its skin. You can also see his wings have a yellowish hue when he´s falling down. It´s pretty safe to assume it was Viserion who died. This also means that if Jon is gonna ride a dragon, it will be on ´Steve´ who is called Rhaegal, named after Daenarys her brother, Rhaegar, who happens to be Jon Snows father.
Definitely agree with Cenk's point that filming of the Walking and Talking scenes beyond the wall was uncharacteristically lazy for GoT. Took me out of the scenes.
Daenerys went into Khal Drogo's funeral pyre deliberately with the eggs, suspecting that the heat would stimulate their hatching (when everyone else thought they were fossilized and just decorative). She also told Jorah that her going into the fire would be all right--i.e., NOT suicidal. Plus she had already told (someone) that Viserys turned out not to be the "dragon" leader of her family because he couldn't survive the heat of the molten gold--which the Targaryen "dragon" would have. But she had long taken baths so hot that they scalded other people.
The names of the three dragons are Viserion, Rhaegal, and Drogon. She named the dragons these names because they were the three men she lost in her life. Viserion represents her brother Viserys, Khal Drogo ordered the gold be poured over his head giving him a crown as he wanted. Rhaegal represents her brother Rhaegar, the brother she lost at the trident when he was slain by Robert Baratheon for taking Lyanna Stark, his betrothed lady away. (She was presumed kidnapped--we now know she went willingly--and taken to the Tower of Joy where she gave birth to Jon, the heir to the seven kingdoms.) Drogon represents Khal Drogo, the husband she lost. Drogo is the largest, the fiercest, the strongest of all three dragons, as was her husband. Again its funny to watch them struggle with the facts, as it seems like they are only casually aware of what happens on the show.
Definitely the most disappointing season. I can't understand what the hurry is to wrap up the series. The show is more popular now than it ever was, why cut corners just to wrap up loose ends? They could have had several more seasons, all without cramming multiple story-lines into 13 episodes. I have been a huge fan and hate to see it ending so abruptly! And for what reason?
I never realized that whinging was not used in the US, even in Australia we use the word whinging as opposed to whining. All these years later now I know different.
Ok, so Valyria is where the Targayens are from. They were known as dragon wielders and had great control over dark magics rooted in blood and fire. At their magic wielding peek, Valyria was destroyed by "the doom", an apocalyptic event which destroyed all but a few Targaryen bloodlines (and arguably, returned the world towards a state of balance). Among those bloodlines are the Targaryens were now watching. They managed to conquer the seven kingdoms with all but 3 dragons at their disposal (foreshadowing). The Starks are also an old house with obvious magical properties. According to wilding legend, the house of Stark, along with one of the first Wildings "king beyond the wall" defeated the "Nights (with an S) King", who was the 13th lord commander of the nights watch (meaning that he could have easily been a Stark himself). This "Nights king" and the current "Night King" are most likely not one and the same...but they could be. I think that the connection between the walkers and the saying of house Stark go unappreciated sometimes. This might be a dumb idea, but maybe the "Night King" (who was of the first men) is a force which exists to ensure that balance in the world exists and only truly becomes powerful once the world is plunged into a state of chaos (like when people start blowing up cathedrals with wildfire). I think that its also possible that the role of the "Night King" isn't just to restore order, but to ensure that the house of Stark remains relevant as they seem to be the moral backbone of Westeros. (In other words, the Night King could be a long forgotten Stark magic, not based in blood and fire but blood and ice instead) Perhaps the Night King and Bran (who clearly have a deep connection) both know and see the events of time and that they act not for their own sakes but for the sake of the realm, hence why Bran is the way he is. Tyrions line about "not doing anything being the hardest thing to do" really touches on that point (Bran acts by NOT acting). The Night King has let Jon go time and time again. Maybe, this "Ice King" (who can't be destroyed by fire), is not only meant to be defeated by Jon, but exists for that sake. By allowing Jon to defeat him, he ensures the survival and importance of the Starks (which he himself may likely be). I also think that Jon (an immortal) may eventually become the Night King himself (after defeating another immortal) and perpetuate the concept of the next coming great winter (which resets the balance in the world and saves the next generation of Starks). Or maybe the Night King can never be defeated and instead is only pushed back until the next era. (At some point in time people are banished beyond the wall, perpetuating the idea of Willings and giving the Night King his next army...thousands of years from now) So i don't think that Jons survival is contrived, at least not in terms of bad story telling. It could be that the one saving him is the Night King himself (we don't know the limits of his water/ice wielding powers, but i don't want to digress). Its only when Danny comes in with her dragons that he uses the ice spears. I think that this harkens back to the concept of Stark importance. The Night King makes a statement by taking out her dragon while letting Jon go. While I'm ranting, I want to say that I think it would be so cool if the ice dragon can be controlled by Jon (as he is technically half dead and maybe somehow connected to the Night King), or by a Bran warging/Jon riding combo. After it all settles, id like to see Danny feel threatened by Snow and plunge into a state of madness and fear (as he will be the one to truly stop the Night King, a ruler with greater power than even she), and so we get a "Song of Ice and fire" in the sky between ice and fire dragons. It would be cool to see a potential love foiled by the suffocating desire to truly rule over the iron throne (something that i could see an ambitious Danny end up doing). All in all, this was a cool review. But with all due respect, the commentator on the far right doesn't seem to have as deep an interest in the show and was there more for the sake of exposure than contributing to the understanding of the story in any meaningful way. She's beautiful, but she needs to prepare a bit more next time. And enough with the "give me the gun", we get it lmao
This is a fucking fantasy ?! To those who are disappointed to this episode, you guys should be the writer and director! 1) jon snow survives : yes hes drowning, but hey he was born and live in cold/north on his entire fucking life ! (Those wight cant swim so he can definitely get off from those zombies) 2) gendry reach the eastwatch .. the flash !yes he looks like he arrives there in 15 mins (are you watching a reality show? This is fantasy) .. you have no idea the distance of their location from the eastwatch ) .. plus you saw jon and company sleeps overnight.. 3) dany not getting cold while on the sky ! Shes a targeryan ! Shes a fire ! Shes warm , and shes riding a warm dragon!! 4) you guys expect the show kills a lot every episode.. ? What the hell ! Every episode breaks our heart , thats GOT , thats make it special ,whether it kills one important character or a lot 5) last second save the day ! Again this is fantasy ! George RR martin , love the lord of the rings .. and GOT has a little bit of that ! No one complains when gandalf arrived in the last minute to save the day , thats makes fantasy makes it special 6) the shows speed it up and doesn't explained everything.. thats up to us to debate .. thats great ! Thats makes interesting. Nothings perfect ! This show is not perfect.. thats makes it a best show for me ! It raise the bar of tv series quality! If you complain that the show was speed up! Maybe you guys stop bitching around .. donate some money to HBO , so you guys can see gendry .. sitting resting on camp fire before heading to east watch
The third dude down, from the guy on the end, is very unlikable. He's obviously a vain know-it-all. He's also very into interrupting his co-hosts, on account of...you know...he knows it all. He makes it difficult to watch, period. Hawksmoor...From The Bleed.
Broadie Thornton I literally scrolled through the comments this far just to see if anyone else was as sick of this dude as i am!!! They have him on every week and he's fucking rude and all his ideas are implausible and ANNOYING.HE IS SO ANNOYING. Also fuck that other guy who replied to your comment.
Tasha He's clearly of the mind that he's somehow superior to the other three on account of having read the source material. Particularly annoying is his constant and cloying smugness concerning future occurrences. "What you guys DON'T know is that this'll have HUGE ramifications in the future, because...well, I'm not going to tell you, but YOU'LL see." We get it...you've read the novels. Many of us have read the novels, but the show has been its own entity for years, now, which means that things can or will change in future in terms of occurrences or story structure. It's so irritating to watch this dude lord his "knowledge" over everyone else. It comes off as petty, mean-spirited, and desperate. He's the very uncool version of today's "geek" or "nerd." He's also rude as SHIT, just as you've pointed out. He sees no problem with interrupting the others in the dead center of commentary, and he obviously gets off on "course correcting" anyone less in the know than him. His presence fucks up the entire "show" to me. The host/channel owner needs to get rid of him. As for the prick who responded to my opinion, who immediately showed his racism, ignorance, and entitlement, and his ENVY of black people, which is the source of these things, fuck him. Anything to dump a little white man's burden, eh? His hatred didn't change my opinion, and it didn't erase his "pain," which makes his opinion/viewpoint worthless. Hawksmoor...From The Bleed.
How this episode should've gone: - Jorah + 1 (Hound or Tormund) die before Dany shows up or while Dany was there. There needed to be more punishment to the good guys for taking such a massive risk and ultimately getting away. This was a great time for Jorah to die, as he would've been dying not just for Dany, but all of the Realm, compelled by his feelings for Dany. The end of his story would've been that his feelings were Dany were never to have him BE with Dany, but to compel him to aid the greater cause and restore his honor. - Night King NOT hitting Drogon first needed more setup. As in, he begins to aim at Drogon, then sees Viserion coming STRAIGHT at him, so goes for him. - Jon having multiple fakeouts (falling in the water, then saved by Benjin) was WAY too much. Have him fall into the water, then Benjin pulls him out - removing the second fakeout... Totally unnecessary and way too cheesy. - The fakeout slow-mo moment just before Dany shows up to the fight was also too much. This could've been fixed a number of ways. DO NOT show the scene where Dany is leaving with her dragons - spend that time on something else. This would give us a bit of uncertainty over if/when Dany is showing up. OR, have Dany's appearance be pretty apparent, as in they hear the dragons coming a ways away, and there's tension as they try to hold it together until they show - and you could have a death happen at that point.
Wait a second ... has Matt even bothered watching the earlier episodes? How can you review an episode of a show like GOT without having watched the earlier episodes?
Ana made SUCH a great point about Daenerys foreshadowing Jon acting like an idiot and not getting on the dragon fast enough. Thank you Ana! You just made a scene I was annoyed by into a scene I'm impressed by.
Yeah, this was the worst episode out of all 7 seasons. The shit at the end was the episode's saving grace, but there were so many stupid plot points. The difference between the genius story telling of George Martin and the show writers was really obvious in this one. I'll give it a pass tho, considering the need to move all the puzzle pieces where they need to be despite the differences between the books and show. Still, can't help but feel they could have done better than that.
1. They went to get a white walker to convince Cersai, but its more about convincing THE REALM. 2. There was no way that Danny could of known about the white walkers being destroyed if the night king is killed. She just got there 3. Jon had to fight off those walkers because they haven't even begun to get on the dragon, also they had to put a live walker on the dragon which is hard to do when you have to fight at the same time.
The woman on the council hit it on the head. It's the plot line that they're out there in the first place that bothered me more than the smaller issues.
I have to admit, I knew there would be complaining. I knew people wouldn't think that from a throney storytelling perspective that the way things turned out (a..a the lack of major character deaths) this would seem underwhelming or unnatural for the rule they've set up, which is that no one is safe. Although, I didn't care. From an emotional standpoint I was just so relieved and overwhelmed by everyone I care about surviving that all I felt was grateful. And I think this is why GoT is nothing like anything else I've seen. Because if this was LoTR or any other adventure show or movie my heart would not have been palpitating so much, I would not have felt so on edge the whole time. This feels like a reward, a light in the darkness, a sliver of hope. It's an offering. It felt like GoT saying, you know all that shit we put you through? Remember how we constantly reminded you that there is no goodness, no real heroes or hope in the world? Well maybe we were wrong. It felt like a balancing episode for all the terror of previous seasons. Do you want death or life to win? Hope or terror? If you were dissapointed in this episode then maybeyou have your answer. Maybe analyse should take emotions into account.
I liked the episode but I feel like this episode is something that game of thrones had to do They had to do the ice dragon thing to ramp up for season finale. They had to find a way to make Danny believe that the threat is real. That had to put Danny and Jon in danger to make them closer. They wrote themselves into a corner Now do I feel like they could have done things a bit better.... Yes but it was still a fairly satisfying episode, maybe not as good as I hoped
I don't think you all are giving the Night King enough credit. Think about it, he has similar powers as Bran so he can theoretically know everything going on in the world. This was his plan all along to stoke fear with the humans at the wall and while knowing dragons exist in the world again just biding his time until he has a chance to take one down. We wondered why the army of the dead hadn't marched on the wall yet - and now we know because the Night King wanted to bring the dragons there. In a way, I think the Night King does bring intrigue through all this. EDIT: and further evidence to Night King scheming, he had prepared for the dragon with those chains which were from Hardhome for ship mooring. EDIT#2: The dragons are named for Drogo, Viscerys, and her good brother Rhaegar. Of course the dead dragon is the one named for her bad brother so even in death he is still sort of a villain.
Also, Tyrion's speech to Dany about how the Night's Watch selects successors seems to be possibly paving the way for a prediction I've had for some time: that eventually Jon, Dany and Tyrion are going to re-establish Westeros as a democracy.
I don't think Dani knows the rule that killing the boss automatically kills The minions. That's a huge assumption. Jon Snow and the others didn't even know that until they killed the one Mini boss. I think she was more concerned about the ones directly attacking Jon's group than the others just chilling up on the hill.
The show does a bad job with explaining time. It would conceivably take days for the ice to freeze over enough for the wights to be able to walk on it. It would take roughly the same amount of time for the raven to get south and Dany to get North. But they make it seem like one night. All they needed was a throwaway line from the Hound while throwing rocks that said "we've been here for days" and boom, you've created context of how long they've been stuck on that rock. The writers are getting lazy.
Jorah did say they'd been there for days I think
Micheal Grim : That's exactly what I thought. It took days for the ice to freeze
Vonsputen Hindenburg if true then okay, but I've missed it on all three watches. I'll look again.
I would take days for Gendry to get back to the wall, days for the raven to reach Dragonstone and days for Dany to reach Jon. They should all be dead.
@Lurkingposter
Yes, which is why they should have used the fact that Jon is a targ and has a link with the dragons to have them react to him being in danger (the way Drogon showed up to help Dany in the Mereen fighting pit) so Dany could figure it out and leave right away without needing to wait for gendry or a raven.
I don't understand why the Nights King threw his spear at a moving flying Dragon when he had a stationary one with people on top right in front of him.
*Cenk pre-Season 7 for multiple seasons since they started reviewing GoT*
"Everyone should stop worrying about themselves! Winter is coming! Everyone should be focusing on The Wall! Nothing else matters!"
*Cenk post-Season 7*
"Why is this show heading towards the white walkers and zombies with everyone banding together to fight them? There's nothing interesting there."
It's not just Cersei they need to make believe. It's everyone, besides the northerners and the Vale. All the other people from the south think the white walkers never even existed. So they are bringing this thing to show all the lord of westeros not just Cersei.
I was yelling this at Cenk the entire time. Even Dany only comes because of her lady-boner for Jon, she didn't buy any of this until she saw it for herself.
That isn't what Tyrion said. He said he will bring a wight to convince Cersei into an armistice so Dany will be free to go north. You're just being dishonest with your apologetics.
Nii no. Why do you think Cersei sent a letter to winterfell and Sansa had brienne go. She sent letters to all the great houses to come to this meeting. It's not just for Cersei.
hahaha lady-boner.
ya. i cant believe these reviewers can not see the most obvious reasons behind all this.
like They bringing zombie to prove to all lords of westros, Sansa sent Brienie bcoz she want do something against arya and brienie cud have stop it, they sent gendry bcoz he can be useful to them only this way otherwise he is inexperienced in fighting and he cud be faster if he do not have to carry weapon and taking care zombie, whole process do actually took like 1 to 3 days they just did not explained time very well, arya was not being crazy she was playing game of truth in which driving her sister desperate to reveal her true feelings & motives.
Tyrion is trying to broker peace because he doesn't want to see Cersei and Jamie dead.
I literally cried when Dany showed up with all 3 dragons and saved those asses! Everytime she rides drogon, I tear up cause the characters are built up so well. It makes you literally feel every individual character with mad emotions!
Last week, I said this show definitely does have a hero shield, and everyone got on my shit. Do you believe me now after Gendry, the fastest man on snow sprinted to the wall in five minutes so the night's watch could send the fastest raven's in the realm to Dany so she could bring dragons ex machina followed by Jon surviving his swim thanks to his +10 thermal plot armour and being saved by coldhands whose entire character in the show is to bring deus ex machina north of the wall? Love the show, but this episode was a letdown. The penultimate episode of a GoT season has always been the dreaded episode. It's always been a season highlight where we get gutted by the loss of a beloved character or a totally awesome battle scene. What's we get this time? The weakest episode of the season that resulted in the loss of a dragon we know nothing about, thoros who's cool but had deadman written on his forehead, and benjen who's been in what 3 episodes? Weak
Not Austin Trott wouls you rather have a full episode of gendry running to the wall?
Indidnt see people complain in season 1. "Oh no it took ned 2 episodes to get to kings landing but catelyn got there in one!. Shows garbage"
How is Viserion''s death and reanimation not devastating?
They don't have to be more than a couple miles from the wall at any time in this, man. They're just wandering around looking for WWs, just think about the fact that Dany is still at castle black when jon gets there, he got there in a matter of hours too having to avoid the entire horde and including however far they had traveled after gendry left. The 9th episode isn't always a big one, last season it was the last. 3 times its been the case, now you want that to be predictable but not the plot, okay snowflake. Benjen's actual plot (coldhands mystery) is skipped by the show, but they had to include this part because it wouldn't make sense for Jon to survive without him.
There are some problems with this episode, but you're jumping onto a bandwagon that you can't even catch up to with these slow-witted gripes.
Alfa . They don't make sense of it though. How long did the seven stay out on that rock? Days and days if we are to calculate. How did they keep warm? What did they eat? The writers no longer give a shit about logic and it's ruining people's suspension of disbelief. The show should not have had shortened seasons, rather extended ones.
Psyentist, well stated!
To sum this episode up: Great action. Terrible writing.
Yes, insult Americans, because that makes you look "so cool" to the European crowd. When you cram 10 episodes into a 7 episode frame some shit just isn't going to make sense. Ignorance is bliss. I really wish I couldn't pay attention to detail like some of you fanboys...
TheDarkHadou330 fuck you!!!!!!
People fell in love with GoT because it was unpredictable by subverting storytelling tropes and convention. Now it just sticks to them with plot armor devices, deus ex machinas, and contrivances.
Agreed. =)
Very good point, you should do reviews
EXACTLY. You hit the nail on the fucking head
I agree. I wish someone important would die. They all feel too safe now.
That's not really a valid complaint though. The reason why plot armor, tropes, deus ex machina, and contrivances exist is because in many cases a story can't be told without at least some of these things. There's a reason they're considered tropes after all, its because a story isn't a story without some of them.
Listening to them all complain reminded why I don't watch the show with my mom any more
cArmAkAze it's called criticism . This is a review. u do realize that right ?
"Criticism"? I have never heard this word.
It's pretty obvious now that without George RR Martin's novels the show makers are resorting to film school tropes and cliches. I feared that this would happen. When they were freezing on that rock and kept thinking "gee, if only someone could create fire... oh yeah, dipshit with the sword can!". I'm sick of the hero shield too, it all seems like it's being made by non-brilliant people that merely went to film school and memorized show making formulas. This season has been terrible so far and I couldn't give 2 fucks about Sansa and Arya's squabble. I'm starting to get the feeling that George RR Martin is giving inaccurate guidance so he can blow our minds with the novels. That's something that he would do.
Nice fucking logic. What do you burn on an ice-covered rock?
A million problems with this episode, and you pick a non-issue.
The Sword literally burns
*@Psyentist*
He could literally get his sword to catch fire. Were we watching the same show?
Or the story was always going to be Zombies vs humans which GRRM wrote and told them. No GRRM isnt giving inaccurate guidance because he is working with HBO on multiple shows and they got tons of prequels coming he worked on and new shows. It you idiots that think Song of Fire and Ice would be anything more when it was always going to be a Fantasy story in how it ends.
This season is BY FAR one of the best. You fucking entitled whinging little cunts need to fuck off.
i was willing to buy john snow being immortal and coming out of the freezing water....but then getting rushed by the whitewalkers and benjun coming in at the last minute to save him- that is some bullshit.
so raven flew from north of the wall to blackwater bay in less than hours (lul), dany flew from blackwater to north of the wall in less than an hour (fast dragons lul), white walker throws spear at the dragon that's flying, not dragon who's sitting still with dany on it (-_-), john got dragged into water but survived (magically), and got saved by benjin (magically) who refused to get on the horse with john because there is no time (lul),..and many other issues, agh, they just got so sloppy
You're not very bright are you? I expect this from Cenk's stupid ass, but you're a commenter, you're supposed to actually think before posting.
A raven flew from castle black to dragonstone, in a whole night, and dany gets there a half a day later, its a little fast on the dragon flight, but not ridiculously so.
The NK killed the dragon attacking, protecting his troops, notice the other dragon and Drogon are not threats at that moment.
Benjin can't cross the wall's enchantments, why the fuck do you think he's still hanging out right on the outside of it? He's a good wight, turned by the children, but he's still bound by the same magic. Maybe you thought he should explain that to Jon as the wights were stabbing them?
Yeah. Also, why doesn't Gandalf just send the eagles in?! You have giant fucking eagles!
You're projecting your lack of intelligence on him.
Raven can't fly 2000 miles in a whole night. Dany can't get 2000 miles in half a day. (Fix. Have Dany fly to Eastwatch cause she is worried about Jon and Jorah)
The NK could have killed Drogon. Then killed the other 2 dragon. That was merely a fraction of his army.
All the writers simply had to do was have Viserion fly in and attack the night king to protect Drogon.
Benjin couldn't cross the wall when he rescued Meera and Bran. Yet he still did. How did he do that?
I agree. There were so many terrible writing moments in this episode that could have easily been fixed. That entire scene with the chain and the scuba diving wights. Simply have the fucking dragon crash on land.
Well we don't know too much about the speed and such of Ravens. I know a Carrier Pigeon would be able to fly 2000 miles in roughly 2 days. We have no real reference for how fast Dragons can fly, but if a Carrier Pigeon can make the trip in 2 days then a Dragon should be able to do it in at least half the time. So yeah, the time almost meets up but kinda doesn't.
I don't know about the Night King though. He stared DIRECTLY at Danny like two or three times before killing one of her dragons. It honestly felt like he was trying to show off to her, sort of like what he did with Jon at Hardhome. I feel like there is just more story going on behind the scenes with the Night King that makes him more than just a "Mindlessly kill all humans" sort of villain.
A few lines in the script could completely elevate the episode. It first shows that the night king on a mountain top saw Gentry running . Then the magnificent seven would be surrendered by the army of the dead. Instead of the stupid ice breaking thing, Hound would ask, "why are these counts attacking." Jon would reply, " I don't know... they are waiting." then Jon realizes the mistake they just made, the night king is actually trying to lure dragons to rescue them.
Sansa sent Brianne away because, like Little Finger said, she is sworn to protect BOTH of them. So, if one of them wanted to get rid of the other, Brianne would stop it. Perhaps Sansa sent Brianne away because she plans to take care of Arya...
Uncle Benjen coming to save Jon Snow actually makes sense. It's not just a shitty way to close up his plot line. It's foreshadowing the fact that Bran has actually learned how to control becoming the Three-eyed Raven. When Benjen comes and saves Bran and Meera, he states that the Three-eyed Raven had sent for him. We can only assume that the original Three-eyed Raven did this through some sort of supernatural communication, which has precedence via Bran communicating with Hodor. So, somehow, Bran learned how to communicate with him using his powers, and sent him to save Jon. - GoT Reddit
I love the fact that Dany, pointed out Jon Snow is much shorter than all her previous suitors in the show. You know what they say in Westeros. Once you go Dothraki, you don't go backy lol.
Some of the predictability of this season is due to the lack of GRRM's source material. But that source material has been gone for a couple years in many plot lines and people weren't complaining this much about predictability. A big part of this complaint, I suspect, is the fact that scripts have been leaked and channels on youtube are giving out spoilers even when they claim they're just "theorizing." It's priming the audience to have a pretty good idea what's going to happen.
perfectibility999 no actually the predictability is because S7 was leaked all over the Internet lol
Put a rope on a dragon, fly north of the wall, entangle 10 zombies in rope. Ffs how hard cant it be
Dany didn't believe them man, think about for half a sec. They send for her help, that's the only reason she came, her ladyboner for Jon. Maybe you think Jon should have asked to borrow one of her kids? Jumping on the bandwagon doesn't take much effort around here it seems.
If Dany didn't believe them, why did she let them go, why the fuck did she let Jorah go? To die in the cold after returning to her from certain death? She would do that wouldn't she the cold bitch... She loves flying her Dragon, why not have a look at her precious kingdoms and beyond the wall? Instead she just sits at Dragonstone doing nothing. God's help you writers, now you are truly lost.
She mainly sent Jorah to go see if it was not bullshit
Drag a terminally ill person to the wall. Slice his throat...wait for X-time until it turns into a wight. Bind it beforehand of course. Drag it back south. Solved.
Where was Bran, his whole deal is the war with the White Walkers and the Whites. He could have sent a raven even before anyone thought of this incredibly stupid and useless plan that gives them a ice dragon. This was a pretty big ticket item not to have seen as the three eyed raven. Also, Jaws is one of the best films of all time, the beauty lies in the social and political interactions of different characters in a small coastal community.
Bran doesn't have any control over what he sees, I think the show is just bad at giving us some of the insights they pound into us in the books. The Three Eyed raven was essentially a slave to the hivemind of the tree basically sleeping his life away in a stream of other people's dreams. Him being so lucid in the show was weird, but I guess necessary to give us the transition we needed to get Bran into the role. He's no nice sensei, he's a human battery for dead minds to live in.
I've heard people say that Bran alerted Benjen to save Jon.
I guess Game of Thrones is one thing Cenk and I can agree on.
After watching S8E5, come back and listen to 26:20
Nope! about Sansa I like to BELIVE she, at this point is smarter then we think. I think Sansa is trying to block Little Fingers play by sending Briann away. Because if she stays Finger will use Briann on his next move. He may try to kill Aria, set and blame Briann, have Briann beheaded and then "he would have Sansa to him self" To manipulate
Ditch the Gendry sprint, substitute with Bran communicating with Dany somehow right after Jon leaves for Eastwatch.
These guys are going to DESPISE the final season if they're complaining about this episode. What do you think the final season is going to be about? It'll be this episode times ten.
Cenk seems to think his show transcends above all others, but in the end it's just a show. It's prone to mistakes and cliches. So when those things happen, he's completely let down.
And the worst is Cenk, which has been his problem this entire series. He's not in this for the white walkers, zombies, and dragons; he's in this for the political shit, and all of that is now ending. Cenk is really going to hate the final season.
Yeah I work with a guy like this- I hate the Dragons and the White walkers... He only likes the political intrigue stuff. I tell him I like the show as a whole and knew we were coming to a point where it basically going to be dungeons and dragons and I wasn't sure how he didn't see this coming? This narrative has been ever present since season one. There were problems with this episode to be sure- Brien being sent away seemed to be very dumb unless Sansa does want to kill Ariea no other reason for it, Giant chains on the dragon... got from where? put there by whom? The Dragon arriving just in time to save the day! ...and Tyrion seeming to become more and more mentally challenged.... this whole season actually(has he done ANYTHING this season to live up to his supposed genius?)
Still loved the episode though! Fun stuff and nothing is perfect.
I really don't get why they didn't have them try to convince Daenerys rather than Cersei. You have Jon meet Daenerys, they do the whole bending the knee thing, and at the end Danny goes "look, I'm not tossing this whole thing aside on the word of a stranger, I'd trust Tyrion, but he's been fucking up lately". Jon, being the brave idiot that he is, then goes "Well, what if I go out there and bring you a dead guy, then will you believe me?" It'd even be a tad bit romantic, in a way, and we as the audience believe she can be convinced (rather than Cersei). Just before they leave, Davos asks for one of Varys's ravens ("the fastest in the 7 kingdoms or some shit"), because eastwatch, being a newly refubished tiny outpost, doesn't have any. Then you do the things. Once they're trapped, Jon sends out the raven with a cry for help (hoping Daenerys will alert someone else). Tyrion lets Danny know that no one will be able to reach them in time. "It's sad, but there's nothing we can do". Then, cut to the scene with the Hound throwing the rock, and just as they're about to get swarmed, Danny swoops in and saves them. The rest plays out the same way, only we get rid of the silly scene with John drowning. Honestly, it serves no purpose. He's back at eastwatch with the rest of them in like 10 minutes of screentime.
The night king knew dany was bringing her dragons, that's why his army was so patient.
The hound and his rock throwing..
The chain store open past the wall..
Gendry turning into Usain bolt...
Dragons are asexual, time to make more dragons
I think I covered everything.
Hmm. What do we have to drag that thing out of the water with?
"I have a 5 ton iron chain!"
"So do I!"
"Me too!"
Well, that was convenient.
HitchensImmortal idiot.
I'm an idiot? WHERE DID THE FUCKING CHAIN COME FROM?
HitchensImmortal not just that but where they get four or five or six of said chains. Even if the Army had one they can't explain where they've got I believe at least four to five of them
the WW's are getting ready to assault a giant wall a chain is pretty help for pulling things down... remember, they've already sacked entire cities of wildfolk, who craft plenty of metal from the looks of their gear
OMG! THIS IS A FANTASY! there is magic, dragons, ice kings, thrones of dragon moulded swords.... and you all are having a fit because the prophesies are coming true? IT'S FUN, quit complaining.
This episode was horseshit.
Benjen Stark with the tagline for this entire season of D&D hand-waving everything: "There's no time!"
You can't burn the night King he walked through dragon fire
You get a dragon! You get a dragon! What’s next, will Cersei get a dragon!? EVERYONE GETS A DRAGON!
Death pays for life ..... it's how Dany was able to hatch the dragons. Now that Viserion is dead she will be able to have a baby. In this episode they discussed her succession, mentioned she couldn't have kids twice, mentioned that jons sword will be passed to his children.... there's def a baby coming people
To answer Ana's dumb question at 23:49, the Night King was previously shown to be immune to fire so it wouldn't have made a difference.
Dany's reaction to one of her "children" dying was less than her sadness at having to leave Jon Snow. Not a single tear was shed, it was just shock without sadness like she attached to them at all.
Danny clearly has never played Pokemon, everyone knows Dragon/Flying types are weak to Ice.
is it me or does night king look increasingly like bran?????? i knew i hated bran for a reason.
Do these guys watch the show?? The white walkers can go through fire, they have on multiple occasions...
right, if the white walkers could die from fire why the fuck is jon gathering dragon glass instead of chopping down trees for fire wood.
philtorius bro I'm agreeing with you
Wights (the foot soldier zombies) die from fire. Fire doesn't do too much to White Walkers (icey folk who are really in charge) as far as we've seen. Only dragon glass and valyrian steel has been proven to kill them. If anything, we've seen them tell fire to fuck off multiple times...
Plus, I don't know how focused I'd be on the mysteries of whether or not I can take out the magical ice guys I've never seen and have to find down there somewhere when I can clearly see a fuckload of zombie guys surrounding a bunch of friends of mine...Priorities, you know?
Except this was dragon's fire, one of the two reasons Jon went south for.
What do you think creates dragon glass? Dragons fire is not normal fire.
They keep going on about why didn't Dany attack the white walker bosses directly with fire, but would that actually have any effect? It's been clearly shown at least twice now a white walker boss walking through fire (Hardhome), or over it and they're clearly not phased by it whatsoever, in fact the fire retreats from them. I'm not sure about dragon fire though.
Funny how the only dragon left without a rider is named after Jon's father..
All I have to say is, I agree with Cenk, 100% right, Ana is coked up (Don't go too far, Ana), Ben is over it... This show is clearly doing fan service and nothing else with the special effects, and have totally abandoned storylines and writing what makes sense. The show is over. I'll keep watching but, I don't care anymore. Really? NONE of those guys got killed? Daenerys Targeryen says "He's too little for me" or whatever. Really? These diminishing to character "Gossip girl" moments, like talking about Greyworm with Missandae and blushing nonsense. I am a woman and this is romance novel bullshit! The hero showing up at the last minute is cheap, poor story writing.
I saw the episode when it was leaked and I tried watching it again with hopes to change my opinion, but I can't be bothered with this nonsense. Dany is suddenly a typical current day teen girl, just gossiping, while we have 5 episodes where she demands people bend the knee?
the raven part really annoyed me. it would take a few days for gendry to get to the wall, a raven to get to dany and dany to fly her dragons in...so that would mean the boys were in the cold surrounded for days before dany got there at just the right moment...that is just fucking ridiculous
The dragons are named after her two brothers (viserion and rhaegal) and her husband (drogon)
While not every critique they had was fair, Cenk was dead on regarding this episode being very un-GOT-like. The famed battle vs the White Walkers was Generic adventure flick crap. In comparison to Hardhome or Battle of the Bastards, it was absolute garbage. And I'm not just talking general writing problems -- the direction in this episode was incredibly phoned in.
"If you think this has a happy ending, then you haven't been paying attention."
My favorite lines were when Tormund is talking to Gendry about freezing his dick off.
Tormund says "Walking is good, Fighting better, Fucking the best."
Gendry says "There isn't a woman within 1000 miles of here."
Tormund says "Sometimes you have to do with what you've got!"
THANK YOU! People are gushing over this episode and you just addressed my issues with in the first 5 mins.
Stupid plan in the first place, same old last-minute rescues, ravens fitted with rocket packs, Gendry legging it across uneven & unfamiliar terrain in record time, the maiden voyage of dragon airlines with extra legroom etc. It was a lazy episode.
I hope that stupid plan form Tyrion was just to get close to Cersei and he has another trick up his sleeve. I really can't stand how stupid the ´bring a wight to Cersei to convince her´ plan is, hopefully there is more to it.
I think you can answer the question, "Why didn't Dany use the dragons on the Night King and his generals?" Pretty easily with the fact that she didn't know to do that. Throughout her entire time in Westeros, we've never seen her being told "This is what the Night King looks like, kill on sight" or anything like that. Also, Gendry ran off, only aware of the fact that his group was being surrounded by white walkers and never saw the Night King himself, thus never being able to mention that to Dany through the raven. IMO she just didn't know.
How would Dani or her dragons know what the Night King looks like?
Richter Aurelian if somebody had just thrown a spear with the force of a rocket and killed my dragon then lined up to throw another, I think I'd want to avoid him.
well she clearly didnt notice the night king until he killed Viserion.
schwarzfalk but that wasn't ordinary fire that was Dragon fire and he extinguished it as he was walking by.
Americas don't use whinging? This has blown me away.
We go with whining or bitching.
We use those too, whinging means the same thing but possibly implies an extra level of pathetic. This is just one of those words that I assumed all English speakers used had no idea it was idiom.
i am a hermit who interfaces with humanity only through television, and i knew what whinging means, and only consume the predominant culture of american television so i just assumed americans must use it too. But i guess not.
I actually can't believe they don't know what whinging is, and I'm American. I guess it happens sometimes with some words! Same with pronouncing words you've only ever read and never heard aloud.
I had heard they didn't use it,but was surprised to hear recently that Yanks don't say fortnight.I must check who wrote the script for the episode,they couldn't have said bitching as it would have sounded too modern,so I suppose it was going to be whining or whinging.
My biggest gripes is that they could have used one of their friends who died from a dead bear as the white walker since he would have eventually turned! In fact Danerys could have flown in on a dragon and grabbed one rather then the LITERAL Suicide Squad risk their lives! Benjen teleporting towards Jon Snow not knowing at all where he was just felt forced! Both of them could have fit on the horse by the way! Also Jon would have died in that Ice Water! The Dead having chains didn't bother me as much as how did they get into the water to connect it to the dragon! THEY CAN'T SWIM! Also no major character dying besides the dragon just bugged me a little but not enough to take me out of it.
They should have included the dogs when they were introducing the panel
Littlefinger was intimating that Brienne might take Arya's side if things came to blows, so Sansa sends Brienne away, weakening their power base cause thats what Littlefinger wants. Surprised none of the 4 of you got that, it wasn't directly explained but if you think about it at all that's the explanation.
By this pace next episode will start with the dead invading King's Landing...
No matter how many shocking deaths that have occurred in previous seasons, I've always believed that it would level off near the end and the good guys would start to win. This really isn't that much of a surprise to me.
The writing suffers without GRRM. It's just memes, fanservice, and action.
I 100% agree with nearly everything said. The show. While still fun to watch has changed for the worse, and it's so incredibly blatant. This season is unlike any before it in so many ways. It's like they got rid of a fearless and intelligent writing staff and replaced all of them with people who write for every other show on television. The show is no longer unpredictable and realistic. Seriously. I thought I was pissed when Jamie was pulled out of the lake. But I got way more pissed when Tormund survived. Then Jorah...Then Jon. ugh. Such bullshit. Then it looked like Arya was going to kill Sansa. I thought to myself "waitaminute...wha? This is the game of thrones I know and love! Hell yes! That's unpredictable yet in line with what was being set up!...oh...She doesnt kill her?...oh...well...that's like every other show on television...how boring...". The people denying that the show has changed in this degree are in complete denial.
so...:
- How did Daenerys get there so fast?
- How come red shirts were dying in 1 second from wights and Tormund was OK after 30 seconds of being covered in them?
- Why didn't the Night King spear Drogon, as he was much closer and stationary
- Why didn't Jon get on the dragon?
- How come, all of a sudden, everybody and their grandmother can ride the dragon like it's a bus?
- How did Jon survive under freezing water for like... 20 minutes?
- Why didn't Benjen ex Machina climb on the horse with Jon?
- Where did "Dany" come from all of a sudden?
- Where did the white walkers get all those heavy chains?
... did I forget anything
Gendry is now apparently a Kenyon long distance runner, in heavy snow and over mountains. Forget the dragons getting there so fast, what about that Raven that flew to Dragonstone. That Raven is the MVP of this episode.
1. Have Dany at the wall. Her friend and close allies are going off on a suicide mission so have her on standby in case they get into trouble. She doesnt even need all three dragons. Just leave rhaegal behind to protect dragonstone. 2. Have benjen come in to save them when they are against the polar bear. Gives him more screen time and a proper reunion with jon. 3. When they are being rushed by white walkers, make gendry take benjens horse to alert dany at the wall. Like hes not the flash now. They walked for a day at least and he ran it in a couple hours. 4. When walkers start to close in on remaining troop while crossing lake, viserion is holding off the army while everyoneclimb on drogon. Jon falls through ice into lake, benjen grabs him before he sinks. Night king comes in and takes out viserion (the closest dragon to him). Viserion falls to ground, benjen understands that someone has to light viserion on fire. Jon is put on drogon and they fly off with uncle benji left behind charging back with fiery flaming thing only to get stopped before reaching viserions body by the night king. A failed sacrifice but a fitting end.
The events of the episode could've conceivably happened within a day or two (they could've been close to the wall, which explains why Gendry reached The Wall so quickly, the Raven could've been very fast - Ravens have traveled multiple times during the time span of an episode before- and I have no doubt the dragons are fast), but the time wasn't very well established. I get it, there's only seven episodes this season, and the pacing must be faster. However, they need to do a better job at explaining it.
Also, the deus ex machina is stupid, and Benjen dying was stupid. There was no reason for him not to get on that horse too.
realmattcooke I wonder if Gendry sprinting to Eastwatch was inspired by the messenger who sprinted miles without stopping to pass a message for the Spartans.
Ben taking a sip of that cocktail with not one, but TWO umbrellas in it, might be the funniest thing I've seen this year.
Always look forward to show guys. Thanks for your efforts.
They may have had six movies worth of screen time to wrap the series up, but they didn't have six movies worth of preproduction time to do it with. It takes George RR Martin 5-7 years to turn his outline into a book because he'll keep throwing things out that require people to teleport and have hero shields. They simply didn't have the time to keep rewriting until they could hit Martin's key points without having to resort to this kind of stuff.
About the time issue. They clearly show that at least a day passes. They sleep and when they wake up thoros is is dead.
About the dragons arriving we are already prepped with the sending a raven. They asked for help and they basically waited the whole day and night for help to arrive.
Agreed 100% The show did a bad job of indicating time passing on the island, but that's it. People in this comment section pretend like we're forced to accept lightspeed ravens and dany should be dead after the flight. We don't even really have a good sense for how long its been since Gendry left, maybe he gets there quickly because they weren't that far, they're just wandering anyway. 2 days for 500 miles isn't fast.
Instead of the 4000 mile round trip. Why not simply have Dany near Eastwatch cause she was worried about JOn and Jorah. Tada. I just easily fixed a huge plot hole
The mystery of the chains used to pull the dragon out of the lake has been solved. Go back to right after the dragon's head pops up out of the ice. There is a close up of what appears to be a dock in the lake, with chains on the dock. Apparently this was some sort of abandoned port for ships....or a ruin of one.
The bigger issue is how did the wights go underwater to hook up the chains to the dragon? If they can do this, they should have no problem walking into the ocean and going around the wall at Eastwatch.
Hypothermia doesn't exist in Game of thrones world. They don't need to heat up with fire right away after being exposed to below zero water with no frostbite. They just instantly gets up and walk around like Jamie and ride a horse like jon snow.
I guess in the north where they kept telling us, winter is the worst in that part of the realm, through 7 Year run of the show is hogwash, a ruse, a ball got dropped situation with the inconsistency of the writing.
Jon should have died when he fell in the ice cold water in the north and gets brought back to life by his assistant, smuggler; forgot his name. Instead of crawling out of the water for a more coherent story.
Even a jedi like Luke Skywalker almost died of hypothermia in the blizzard, but han saves him with the heat of the innards by putting luke in the belly of his mount immediately after he was found to keep him alive.
Now we see that this much deviation from the original writing of George RR Martin is starting to show big time in a negative way.
When HBO caught up with the books, they took over writing, it seems so because it's so glaringly different.
GOT went down the toilet story telling wise, script wise. HBO thought they can cook up a pot of GOT greatness with different ingredients and replicate the greatness of George RR Martins' story telling.
Just betting on the fact that they've gather all their fans in the years and got them hooked by now will continue to watch like an addict.
I am not a book reader, but now I understand what they complain about when they see the inconsistency before it got this bad.
I'm too invested now to quit watching GOT. It just feels like now we're getting force fed with our favorite food that we used to love, but have become stale to our palette.
keytrixz Remember back in series 1, when Alliser Thorne scared the crap out of Sam and Jon telling them about all the hardships he had to endure while out ranging during the last winter? Frost, hypothermia, darkness, death, cold and cannibalism... you'd think these sorts of things would carry over in a ranging expedition taking place in the land of always winter, during a winter most agree will be the worst in living memory. The writers just don't care about the details.
Adam Hodgkinson Yup I agree with you 100%. I remember that scene. I hope for season 8, last season, they try to remember what made the show great.
Let's get back to heroes dying without us knowing which one will go first, unpredictable, for the love of Ned Stark. The long night is here. Also I hope they don't leave the fans in the air storytelling wise with a cliffhanger; that would be a smack in the face.
Thank god these guys ripped this episode. I was thinking that some of them might be blinded by the hype, but it's good to see that the disappointing shortcomings are acknowledged.
could you please just learn the difference between wights (reanimated corpses, able to get killed by fire) and white walkers (alive - originally created by the children of the forest, lead by the night king and further from Craster's abandoned babies, able to get killed by dragon glass or valyrian steel) - frustrating to hear you all constantly mix up the terminology
It's so much bad writing that could have easily been fixed.
1. Don't have all the wights die but 1. Have 4 or 5 survive. Kill them. Keep 1
2. Have Dany near Eastwatch. She was worried about Jon and Jorah. Or some reason.
3. Have Viserion go to attack the night king to protect Drogon. Night King has to spear Viserion instead of not hitting an easy more valuable target.
4. Have the fucking dragon crash on the land to avoid the stupid chain scene
5. Have Benjin fall or get knocked off the horse
This is just off the top of my head
So let me get this straight the most honorable man in Game of Thrones Ned Stark gets his head chopped off because of some bullshit. Then his son tries to avenge him and it ends up getting him, his wife, his mom and his unborn child killed. Then we wait for over 3 years for the Starks to get back together and when they finally do there is extreme tension between Arya and Sansa and bran is a cold mother fucker! Why does George hate the starks?
The last 2 seasons passed the books that's why. That's why the writing has gotten worse
i will love when books will follow similar plotlines and "fans" that shit on the show will eat GRRM's d*ck and love it (if he is able to finish the books and dont die)
Even if the outlines are similar the writing will be far better. And George has already stated that the books and the show are different now and shouldn't be compared.
Arya and Sansa have always had a rough relationship, if you remember the first season they kinda hated each other and fought a lot. So their storyline is rather unsurprising, especially considering that Sansa went to the Cersei & Littlefinger school for crazy and Arya is a murder machine. Bran is just that kid at the party who did WAAAAAY too much acid right at the beginning and now just sits in the corner seeing the universe.
Migi FS D & D already said the show is mostly doing its own thing. Also it's not about plotlines. It's about execution.
They don't get it. The dragon was killed so John Snow then went to fight his way through to the knight king. That was his first impulse, revenge for the dragons deaths. That is why he went away from Drogon and you see that is part of the reason why Danny was falling for him.
This is so sad... just remember the red wedding, THAT was game of thrones
Jon's death
Jaime getting his hand cut off
Ned Stark's death
Joffrey's death
Tywin's death
OBERYN's DEATH(damn that was incredible)
Shireen's death
We didn't know what to expect, now everything gets resolved so easy... "OMG WE ARE ALL GOING TO DIE!" "DON'T WORRY THE DRAGONS ARE COMING"
They are unable to kill their main characters. Now they are killing red shirts. So since Season 4 they are just not pulling the trigger and that's a problem. And as many are saying, this show is now rushed due to their needing to film fewer episodes. That sucks. Still an amazing show.
Everything Wrong with the episode
Unless Arya is the waif her dialogue makes no sense
That raven deservers a medal for breaking the sound barrier to get to dragonstone that fast
Dragonstones telaport machines are working overtime
The Hound MVP for the whitewalker army(I'll let that one slide since it's in character)
The Night King looked at Drogon decided nah I'll not attack the humans I'll go for Viserion
The Night King making Ice Chains that best have been weeks of hard work
Benjen Stark out of nowhere
Benjen gets off the horse
They apparently sat on the frozen lake for weeks......they should have died
I'm assuming Lord of Light magic for the swords so I don't mind it.
Winds of Winter better fix this trash
Check it out, little Obama. The starks are very obviously playing LF with all this, maybe you forgot about the Pack Survives taglines?
A raven can definitely get to dragonstone in a day and we can assume dany hauls ass and makes it in a day as well, given the ice has to refreeze, 2 days on that island isn't weird, they just didn't explain it well.
Visearon is attacking, that's why he got the bolt. Watch it again, Reagal (or whatever) is way out coming around for another pass while Dany and Drogon aren't attacking anymore because they're loading people on, right then Vis is the only threat and wham.
Benjen just hangs our near the wall, he probably followed the expedition this whole time. He thinks he can't cross the wall because he doesn't know Bran fucked up the enchantment. Maybe you think he should have explained all that to Jon while the wights stabbed them in the faces?
it was definitely a weak episode, but you're just wrong in half your bitching. Get off the bandwagon if it's moving to fast for you.
a ravens max speed is 60mph they should have died waiting on the rock considering the books describe the cold the others bring as barely breathable so they should have died speaking for tactics wights are disposable so yes Drogon would have been the better target, if they end up playing little finger which I believe they are doing I'll concede that, Gendry obtained the speedforce Benjen was too close for comfort the episode was enjoyable no-one will debate that but heck tourmand should have died why would a Wight hold a blade to his neck instead of going for the kill maybe someone who would refer to a black person as little Obama is idiotic enough to blind themselves to logical fallacies and dues ex machinas and but someone who truly loves the source material will point out these flaws
The plot holes and dumb character decisions in the season are getting ridiculous. Rewatch season 1 and compare the writing to the current one, the difference in quality is insane. Also, Jon should have died from hypothermia after falling in ice water and riding through a blizzard. There's absolutely no excuse for that not happening. If the writers keep this up the show will end as badly as Dexter did.
You do realize this show is a fantasy, right? Don't nitpick your way into being angry about a show that is meant to entertain you. Or do....whatever.
Joseph Davidson nitpicking would be looking at stuff like costume design or minute book differences Martin is master of crafting the world and establishing time is something he's been amazing at the show isn't doing it justice in major ways in addition to time scaling by criticism they can improve
Ben, can you upload your own thoughts on the final episode when it comes out next week? Maybe just a 10 minute video!
OMG! Yes! Danny and Jon will hook up, she will get pregnant and that will be the prince who was promised. The end of GOT
Princess*
Jonathan Meddis 🤔hhuuummm! " Prinsesa👸🏽 " 🗣 i have heard this through the tangled grapevines🍇 of RUclips however.. scripts can change my friend, so im not completely sold, nevertheless it's entertaining!🙆🏽
There are multiple shots of the dead or dying dragon where you can see yellowish bright spots on its skin. You can also see his wings have a yellowish hue when he´s falling down. It´s pretty safe to assume it was Viserion who died. This also means that if Jon is gonna ride a dragon, it will be on ´Steve´ who is called Rhaegal, named after Daenarys her brother, Rhaegar, who happens to be Jon Snows father.
Definitely agree with Cenk's point that filming of the Walking and Talking scenes beyond the wall was uncharacteristically lazy for GoT. Took me out of the scenes.
Daenerys went into Khal Drogo's funeral pyre deliberately with the eggs, suspecting that the heat would stimulate their hatching (when everyone else thought they were fossilized and just decorative). She also told Jorah that her going into the fire would be all right--i.e., NOT suicidal. Plus she had already told (someone) that Viserys turned out not to be the "dragon" leader of her family because he couldn't survive the heat of the molten gold--which the Targaryen "dragon" would have. But she had long taken baths so hot that they scalded other people.
Well, I thought this episode was fucking awesome.
The names of the three dragons are Viserion, Rhaegal, and Drogon. She named the dragons these names because they were the three men she lost in her life.
Viserion represents her brother Viserys, Khal Drogo ordered the gold be poured over his head giving him a crown as he wanted.
Rhaegal represents her brother Rhaegar, the brother she lost at the trident when he was slain by Robert Baratheon for taking Lyanna Stark, his betrothed lady away. (She was presumed kidnapped--we now know she went willingly--and taken to the Tower of Joy where she gave birth to Jon, the heir to the seven kingdoms.)
Drogon represents Khal Drogo, the husband she lost. Drogo is the largest, the fiercest, the strongest of all three dragons, as was her husband.
Again its funny to watch them struggle with the facts, as it seems like they are only casually aware of what happens on the show.
Definitely the most disappointing season. I can't understand what the hurry is to wrap up the series. The show is more popular now than it ever was, why cut corners just to wrap up loose ends? They could have had several more seasons, all without cramming multiple story-lines into 13 episodes. I have been a huge fan and hate to see it ending so abruptly! And for what reason?
Would you like a tissue?
I never realized that whinging was not used in the US, even in Australia we use the word whinging as opposed to whining. All these years later now I know different.
Ok, so Valyria is where the Targayens are from. They were known as dragon wielders and had great control over dark magics rooted in blood and fire. At their magic wielding peek, Valyria was destroyed by "the doom", an apocalyptic event which destroyed all but a few Targaryen bloodlines (and arguably, returned the world towards a state of balance). Among those bloodlines are the Targaryens were now watching. They managed to conquer the seven kingdoms with all but 3 dragons at their disposal (foreshadowing).
The Starks are also an old house with obvious magical properties. According to wilding legend, the house of Stark, along with one of the first Wildings "king beyond the wall" defeated the "Nights (with an S) King", who was the 13th lord commander of the nights watch (meaning that he could have easily been a Stark himself). This "Nights king" and the current "Night King" are most likely not one and the same...but they could be.
I think that the connection between the walkers and the saying of house Stark go unappreciated sometimes. This might be a dumb idea, but maybe the "Night King" (who was of the first men) is a force which exists to ensure that balance in the world exists and only truly becomes powerful once the world is plunged into a state of chaos (like when people start blowing up cathedrals with wildfire). I think that its also possible that the role of the "Night King" isn't just to restore order, but to ensure that the house of Stark remains relevant as they seem to be the moral backbone of Westeros. (In other words, the Night King could be a long forgotten Stark magic, not based in blood and fire but blood and ice instead)
Perhaps the Night King and Bran (who clearly have a deep connection) both know and see the events of time and that they act not for their own sakes but for the sake of the realm, hence why Bran is the way he is. Tyrions line about "not doing anything being the hardest thing to do" really touches on that point (Bran acts by NOT acting). The Night King has let Jon go time and time again. Maybe, this "Ice King" (who can't be destroyed by fire), is not only meant to be defeated by Jon, but exists for that sake. By allowing Jon to defeat him, he ensures the survival and importance of the Starks (which he himself may likely be). I also think that Jon (an immortal) may eventually become the Night King himself (after defeating another immortal) and perpetuate the concept of the next coming great winter (which resets the balance in the world and saves the next generation of Starks). Or maybe the Night King can never be defeated and instead is only pushed back until the next era. (At some point in time people are banished beyond the wall, perpetuating the idea of Willings and giving the Night King his next army...thousands of years from now)
So i don't think that Jons survival is contrived, at least not in terms of bad story telling. It could be that the one saving him is the Night King himself (we don't know the limits of his water/ice wielding powers, but i don't want to digress). Its only when Danny comes in with her dragons that he uses the ice spears. I think that this harkens back to the concept of Stark importance. The Night King makes a statement by taking out her dragon while letting Jon go.
While I'm ranting, I want to say that I think it would be so cool if the ice dragon can be controlled by Jon (as he is technically half dead and maybe somehow connected to the Night King), or by a Bran warging/Jon riding combo. After it all settles, id like to see Danny feel threatened by Snow and plunge into a state of madness and fear (as he will be the one to truly stop the Night King, a ruler with greater power than even she), and so we get a "Song of Ice and fire" in the sky between ice and fire dragons. It would be cool to see a potential love foiled by the suffocating desire to truly rule over the iron throne (something that i could see an ambitious Danny end up doing).
All in all, this was a cool review. But with all due respect, the commentator on the far right doesn't seem to have as deep an interest in the show and was there more for the sake of exposure than contributing to the understanding of the story in any meaningful way. She's beautiful, but she needs to prepare a bit more next time.
And enough with the "give me the gun", we get it lmao
This is a fucking fantasy ?! To those who are disappointed to this episode, you guys should be the writer and director!
1) jon snow survives : yes hes drowning, but hey he was born and live in cold/north on his entire fucking life ! (Those wight cant swim so he can definitely get off from those zombies)
2) gendry reach the eastwatch .. the flash !yes he looks like he arrives there in 15 mins (are you watching a reality show? This is fantasy) .. you have no idea the distance of their location from the eastwatch ) .. plus you saw jon and company sleeps overnight..
3) dany not getting cold while on the sky ! Shes a targeryan ! Shes a fire ! Shes warm , and shes riding a warm dragon!!
4) you guys expect the show kills a lot every episode.. ? What the hell ! Every episode breaks our heart , thats GOT , thats make it special ,whether it kills one important character or a lot
5) last second save the day ! Again this is fantasy ! George RR martin , love the lord of the rings .. and GOT has a little bit of that ! No one complains when gandalf arrived in the last minute to save the day , thats makes fantasy makes it special
6) the shows speed it up and doesn't explained everything.. thats up to us to debate .. thats great ! Thats makes interesting. Nothings perfect ! This show is not perfect.. thats makes it a best show for me ! It raise the bar of tv series quality! If you complain that the show was speed up! Maybe you guys stop bitching around .. donate some money to HBO , so you guys can see gendry .. sitting resting on camp fire before heading to east watch
The third dude down, from the guy on the end, is very unlikable. He's obviously a vain know-it-all. He's also very into interrupting his co-hosts, on account of...you know...he knows it all.
He makes it difficult to watch, period.
Hawksmoor...From The Bleed.
Broadie Thornton
I literally scrolled through the comments this far just to see if anyone else was as sick of this dude as i am!!! They have him on every week and he's fucking rude and all his ideas are implausible and ANNOYING.HE IS SO ANNOYING.
Also fuck that other guy who replied to your comment.
Tasha He's clearly of the mind that he's somehow superior to the other three on account of having read the source material. Particularly annoying is his constant and cloying smugness concerning future occurrences. "What you guys DON'T know is that this'll have HUGE ramifications in the future, because...well, I'm not going to tell you, but YOU'LL see."
We get it...you've read the novels. Many of us have read the novels, but the show has been its own entity for years, now, which means that things can or will change in future in terms of occurrences or story structure. It's so irritating to watch this dude lord his "knowledge" over everyone else. It comes off as petty, mean-spirited, and desperate. He's the very uncool version of today's "geek" or "nerd." He's also rude as SHIT, just as you've pointed out. He sees no problem with interrupting the others in the dead center of commentary, and he obviously gets off on "course correcting" anyone less in the know than him. His presence fucks up the entire "show" to me. The host/channel owner needs to get rid of him.
As for the prick who responded to my opinion, who immediately showed his racism, ignorance, and entitlement, and his ENVY of black people, which is the source of these things, fuck him. Anything to dump a little white man's burden, eh? His hatred didn't change my opinion, and it didn't erase his "pain," which makes his opinion/viewpoint worthless.
Hawksmoor...From The Bleed.
How this episode should've gone:
- Jorah + 1 (Hound or Tormund) die before Dany shows up or while Dany was there. There needed to be more punishment to the good guys for taking such a massive risk and ultimately getting away. This was a great time for Jorah to die, as he would've been dying not just for Dany, but all of the Realm, compelled by his feelings for Dany. The end of his story would've been that his feelings were Dany were never to have him BE with Dany, but to compel him to aid the greater cause and restore his honor.
- Night King NOT hitting Drogon first needed more setup. As in, he begins to aim at Drogon, then sees Viserion coming STRAIGHT at him, so goes for him.
- Jon having multiple fakeouts (falling in the water, then saved by Benjin) was WAY too much. Have him fall into the water, then Benjin pulls him out - removing the second fakeout... Totally unnecessary and way too cheesy.
- The fakeout slow-mo moment just before Dany shows up to the fight was also too much. This could've been fixed a number of ways. DO NOT show the scene where Dany is leaving with her dragons - spend that time on something else. This would give us a bit of uncertainty over if/when Dany is showing up. OR, have Dany's appearance be pretty apparent, as in they hear the dragons coming a ways away, and there's tension as they try to hold it together until they show - and you could have a death happen at that point.
Wait a second ... has Matt even bothered watching the earlier episodes?
How can you review an episode of a show like GOT without having watched the earlier episodes?
Ana made SUCH a great point about Daenerys foreshadowing Jon acting like an idiot and not getting on the dragon fast enough. Thank you Ana! You just made a scene I was annoyed by into a scene I'm impressed by.
Yeah, this was the worst episode out of all 7 seasons. The shit at the end was the episode's saving grace, but there were so many stupid plot points. The difference between the genius story telling of George Martin and the show writers was really obvious in this one. I'll give it a pass tho, considering the need to move all the puzzle pieces where they need to be despite the differences between the books and show. Still, can't help but feel they could have done better than that.
1. They went to get a white walker to convince Cersai, but its more about convincing THE REALM.
2. There was no way that Danny could of known about the white walkers being destroyed if the night king is killed. She just got there
3. Jon had to fight off those walkers because they haven't even begun to get on the dragon, also they had to put a live walker on the dragon which is hard to do when you have to fight at the same time.
The woman on the council hit it on the head. It's the plot line that they're out there in the first place that bothered me more than the smaller issues.
I have to admit, I knew there would be complaining. I knew people wouldn't think that from a throney storytelling perspective that the way things turned out (a..a the lack of major character deaths) this would seem underwhelming or unnatural for the rule they've set up, which is that no one is safe.
Although, I didn't care. From an emotional standpoint I was just so relieved and overwhelmed by everyone I care about surviving that all I felt was grateful. And I think this is why GoT is nothing like anything else I've seen. Because if this was LoTR or any other adventure show or movie my heart would not have been palpitating so much, I would not have felt so on edge the whole time. This feels like a reward, a light in the darkness, a sliver of hope. It's an offering. It felt like GoT saying, you know all that shit we put you through? Remember how we constantly reminded you that there is no goodness, no real heroes or hope in the world? Well maybe we were wrong. It felt like a balancing episode for all the terror of previous seasons. Do you want death or life to win? Hope or terror? If you were dissapointed in this episode then maybeyou have your answer. Maybe analyse should take emotions into account.
I liked the episode but I feel like this episode is something that game of thrones had to do
They had to do the ice dragon thing to ramp up for season finale.
They had to find a way to make Danny believe that the threat is real.
That had to put Danny and Jon in danger to make them closer.
They wrote themselves into a corner
Now do I feel like they could have done things a bit better.... Yes but it was still a fairly satisfying episode, maybe not as good as I hoped
I don't think you all are giving the Night King enough credit. Think about it, he has similar powers as Bran so he can theoretically know everything going on in the world. This was his plan all along to stoke fear with the humans at the wall and while knowing dragons exist in the world again just biding his time until he has a chance to take one down. We wondered why the army of the dead hadn't marched on the wall yet - and now we know because the Night King wanted to bring the dragons there. In a way, I think the Night King does bring intrigue through all this.
EDIT: and further evidence to Night King scheming, he had prepared for the dragon with those chains which were from Hardhome for ship mooring.
EDIT#2: The dragons are named for Drogo, Viscerys, and her good brother Rhaegar. Of course the dead dragon is the one named for her bad brother so even in death he is still sort of a villain.
Biggest takeaway from review: ana and cenk have never seen jaws?!?
Ana's never seen anything, that was no shock, but Cenk has never seen Jaws... wtf?
Also, Tyrion's speech to Dany about how the Night's Watch selects successors seems to be possibly paving the way for a prediction I've had for some time: that eventually Jon, Dany and Tyrion are going to re-establish Westeros as a democracy.
Cenks face at the start pretty much summed up how I felt about this episode lol It has totally jumped the shark now such a shame.
I don't think Dani knows the rule that killing the boss automatically kills The minions. That's a huge assumption. Jon Snow and the others didn't even know that until they killed the one Mini boss. I think she was more concerned about the ones directly attacking Jon's group than the others just chilling up on the hill.
lemme keep this simple, for season 7 of game of thrones.
action : A+
storyline: C
dialogue: F
Kelechi Otu switch dialogue with story and i agree