No issue with it from me. I will take the blows for sure, but if setting it with the back method zero issues. Killer anti magnetic, 120 hour reserve, plus regulated. Those are all wins.
I feel like Rob’s instruction on setting the time forward 5 minutes and then pulling it back to the proper time is an easy to follow instruction on setting the time. I kind of wonder why Oris didn’t put that info in the instruction manual. Or maybe it is in there. I’ve never read it. Maybe Oris didn’t want to bring any attention to the quirk so they just don’t bring it up. who knows.
The sheer amount of negativity is uncalled for. The reason you hack the movement is to set time, how does it matter if the minute hand jumps a little or not, you are going to set the time anyways. Tell me another Swiss Made watch with in-house developed movement with 5 days power reserve, 10 year warranty, original watch design for under $3,500?
I disagree and don’t see it being a problem as when you’re hacking a movement your correcting the time anyway. I would only see it as a flaw if it happened when you pushed the crown in afterwards.
I could see someone being disappointed that after wearing the watch for 5 or 6 days you can’t hack the movement and wait 10 or 15 seconds to allow the seconds hand to resynchronize and then push back in at the proper time. This would make the minute hand jump. I know its not the end of the world but some people who wear automatic watches do that every few days. I’m not well versed in high horology but my marine master and my planet ocean do not jump at all when i do this and they are roughly in the same price group. Like i said not the end of the world and its still a great watch, but not something i would expect from a 3500 dollar watch. Anyone have some examples of another watch that does this?
I have several Omegas, a Seiko a Longines and a Certina and they do not have this problem. My latest Omega tresor has double barrels also. I am very meticulous when setting the time so that the minute and the seconds hand corelate so instead of just pulling the crown for half a minute, say, you now must align the hands. If the minute hand moves when you push the crown back in it is even worse.
The way to solve the jump is to set the time you want and then instead of pressing the crown back in right away (which will make the minute hand jump) just back the crown off in the opposite direction just enough to take the slack out of it. Doing this disengages the little cog that changes the time. No when you press in the crown there will be no jump. 1) Again, set the time. 2) twist the crown slightly in the opposite direction just enough to take take the slack out of it. 3) press the crown in. There will be no jump.
That recommended wiggle back and forth before pushing the crown in is something I do with all my watches anyway. The minute hand always seems to jump a very small amount without the wiggle.
@@gerardoesquivel9919 Yes I do the wiggle with every watch before pushing the crown in so the minute hand doesn't do even the slightest jump. I'm not still saying it's acceptable. I might have never noticed that if the wiggle helps.
@@BruceWilliams You should edit your reply now that you know winding the watch back 5 min when setting, the hands do not jump, making this a non-issue.
Exactly and I would have thought any serious watch collector would know this. This whole thing has been blown out of all proportion - There is no flaw and there is no issue.
@@heinrich3427 I understand, but I don't want a watch with a jumping hand , may it be a Rolex . I am annoyed by that and I would never buy a watch with that "feature" . I would buy a basic aquis with a non in house movement.
@@SkyNikita322 An $80 Seiko hasn't got a 5 day power reserve, it doesn't have the same accuracy standards and it doesn't have 10 year service intervals, as generally those movements are replaced rather than serviced as it wouldn't make financial sense. Watchmakers bins are full of them, but it's not a fair comparison anyway and the day's of $80 seiko's is at an end.
Mark, the issue also happens when you push the crown back in. The minute hand jumps a couple or even 3 minutes ahead defeating the purpose of time setting or syncing. Maybe you mean pulling the crown only, but pushing the crown? I don't think that happens to other high end movements.
The IWC in-house movement in the Automatic Spitfire has the same quirk as this Oris. The solution, as others have said, is to set the watch ahead a few minutes and then wind back to the correct time before pushing the crown back in. This is actually a GOOD PRACTICE IN GENERAL for accurate time-setting, even if your movement doesn’t have the jumping minute hand “problem.” Austin Daniels has talked about this before, and he always sets his Rolexes exactly like this.
Are ppl here saying they can ignore a jumping minute hand from a movement from an expensive watch, but not a misaligned bezel or a non winding movement 🤔 from a cheaper watch
Let’s challenge that statement! A jumping minute hand doesn’t effect its function or efficiency as a time keeping piece. A misaligned bezel and non-winding movement does.
Bruce, my man.... FINALLY someone that have the balls to tell it like it is!!! after watching in DISGUST of the whole RUclips watch enthusiast community bragging about this watch and movement without mentioning the moving minute hand FLAW, it’s obvious to me they are being baught by Oris. But it’s just annoying that they avoid the issue too. Even when I commented on various channels (Teddy and Urban Gentry to name two examples) and they have no idea about this fault? How come? do you believe that enthusiast that work and read about watches daily don’t know about this issue??? Obviously they do. I’m with you one this one. I love Oris. I love the model. I love the fact that they are going in-house. But this is just embarrassing having a minute hand jumping when setting the watch, especially being that it is in this price range. for 3500 you are in the same league as omega, gran seiko and Tudor that all have better in-house movements and watches. Love your channel btw.
Although I appreciate your thorough review, I thought It would be noble to thank EngineerWannabe for his original posting of his issues with this movement....the same individual that you called out as “disingenuous” for expressing and providing his actual, unfortunate experience with this movement (a watch that he actually purchased). I would say, good on him for keeping us collectors informed.
Class leading at this price - Christopher Ward might have something to say about that. They released the SH21 movement years ago. There's no minute hand jumping, and it's COSC, this movement isn't.
You literally said exactly what I was typing about Omega's double barrel..no issues at all. That sounds like an engineering excuse..."you aren't using the watch correctly"...ala Apple with their poor antenna design...apple's explanation.."you aren't holding your phone correctly"
Honestly this was one of the most exciting watch releases of the year to me. I don't think this is a fatal flaw but I understand why it is to many, but if it can be avoided with just a little wiggle while pushing in/pulling out the crown, so be it. I'm a huge fan of in-house movements and it's great to see Oris come out with a banger. I'm just hoping they eventually put it in a watch that's small enough for my tiny wrist - preferably a 39mm or less.
If Oris never try to solve the minute jumping issue and take this issue as a normal phenomenon for 2 barrel movement , there will be many people keep away from this watch including me. Thank you for your honesty in this review.
Bottom line, setting a watch shouldn’t require a trick to do so! Does a Tudor have this issue? What Seiko has this issue? In house movements are overrated particularly when they are as finicky as a Jaguar V12.
I never understood the hype of “in-house” beyond it being an interesting talking point. I would certainly prefer a watch with a Sellita movement over a Seiko 5 one.
I've had this watch for several weeks now - while it does suffer from the occasional hand jump, I have found that I can completely negate that by simply being gentle with my handling of the crown. Get a solid grip of the crown between forefinger and thumb and gently exert pressure in pushing and pulling - interesting that being gentle causes no jumping of the hand at all. So I figure as long as I am gentle with my handling - there is no issue and no jumping.
Perfect your comment, very valuable for your experience. The solution to the problem lies in the good treatment of the company with the crown. Not shooting like a madman thirty times like Bruce is illogical. Enjoy your watch, great acquisition!
@@chrisc7384 It is a great watch - Oris's suggestion on the jumping hand works too I have found. Roll the hand past your intended time by 5/10 minutes, then roll back to set your desired time. Push in, no jump.
I am glad this video covers this issue and it’s very honest and not sensationalized in my opinion. I feel like some people skip over it and that’s not good and then others act like the issue makes the watch defective which is not true either. Great perspective here. I am not a watch maker and so everything i say on this should be taken with a grain if salt. Oris can’t come out and say all these watches have a flaw and should be returned. 1. its not that bad and the watch still functions and keeps good time. 2. They may not have a practical cost effective solution for better hacking function yet. My gut instinct is that they will eventually be able to make small changes in the movement that keeps this from happening. And those movements will be implemented over time and eventually people will buy watches that do not do this. I don’t think Oris will ever say anything about it the fact that they are making changes because why would they want to go back and retrofit old watches with these parts. That doesn’t seem practical. There are so many details in a watch movement I don’t think there is one watch movement that has been made perfectly on the first try. Things like this are always being streamlined and improved over time and I think that is totally acceptable.
I have watched watch youtube videos till they came out of my ears. I like Omega's Rolex and most of the Lala land brands, however coma they are just too expensive. Yes, you can buy used but for my eyes and finances still too expensive. Then I stumble upon this watch. when the videos first appeared. Still too expensive, but taking into account the new movement, the time reserve, and the warranty, and the service interval. It costs money most times a buttload of money to service these watches The one I purchased doesn't have the jumping hand issue. And so what if it does if this is an everyday carry It does its job and looks good doing it. I am 65 years old and I was wearing watches before quartz. I always wanted a new high rent watch now I have one I couldn't be happier.
Great, great review Bruce. Left nothing uncovered in going through the key points about this watch. This is a success in many ways for Oris in my opinion and you helped explain how that's true on balance. Wish Oris and you continued success. Side note, thanks to you, I have VC on my mind daily. Think I'm going to have to turn in my collection and get that grail. Cheers Bruce!
"With the April sale of Breitling to CVC Capital Partners, and with most big Swiss watch brands currently owned by larger luxury groups, the population of truly independent Swiss watch brands is near non-existent. Yet Oris has been able to retain its independent, family-run status throughout almost all of its entire 113-year history of making mechanical tool watches." Oris rich history and loyalty to its quality before quantity is a big plus for me, from a philosophical perspective it should be one of the most respected and loved watch brand out there, especially for a real watch enthusiast. I get more impressed seeing people wearing Oris then a Tudor or a Rolex. A Oris feels like culture. But its just in my opinion,
Hi Bruce I get a similar thing with my rolex Explorer II which I bought new from a Rolex authorised dealer 6 years ago. It has had one service since at the 5 year mark by Rolex. Basically there's play in the minute hand occasionally when pulling the crown out or pushing the crown in........ Not quite as much as the Oris though......
Please make me understand why it is a problem that the minute hand jumps a little when you pull the crown ? I think normally when you pull the crown you would do that to set the time any way . If not why would you pull the crown ?
I don't feel the minute hand jumping is that big of an issue. If I'm pulling the crown all the way out I'm going to have to adjust the time regardless. I mean it's not like the date stops moving like another watch I know...
@@gerardoesquivel9919 Ummm sorry but did you actually watch the video. 8:05 he explains it that it happens when you PULL the crown out. NOT when you push it back in. At 8:37 Bruce PULLS the crown out, the minute hand jumps, proceeds to set the time, and PUSHES the crown back in and nothing happens.
@@1320Mustang It also happens when you push the crown, too. You can see the issue on other RUclips channels. Check out Engineer Wannabe's videos where the issue happens when the crown is both pulled and pushed.
@@inkhaurt5812 Just watched it and that's sad it i jumped on pushing the crown in. Had this only been the issue when pulling the crown out I probably would've bought one but seeing this makes me really hesitant on it
When you pull the crown in time setting position, then you're in any case going to set the time. The jumping minute hand is definitively not a problem in that case. It would have been if it was doing so while setting the date... No problem for me. Anyway, reading the comments, I see it does it also when exiting from the time setting mode. Well that may be not good at all. Actually also 7750s have something similar: you need to advance time and go back 1-2mins to have the time set correctly. If you advance and exit, then the minute hand will take 1-2m to start moving again.
It’s a quirk, and it adds personality. When I adjust the time on my watch(es), I don’t land perfectly on the exact minute and often rewind time-wise to the correct time anyway. I’m also not the type to be adjusting the time daily, let alone weekly. Haha I would take it with a grain of salt; this issue/quirk is relatively a non-issue considering the innovations with the caliber 400 movement
Thank you for a fantastic review Bruce. I actually don't mind the jumping minute hand (I am sure time setting would become automatic over time), but I think the additional $1K for this new movement is just too much for me.
My thing is that if the wonky minute hand is the ONLY issue on a this brand new movement. Its not THAT big of a deal, especially with the accuracy/power reserve it's not like your having to reset it every other day. However I still retain that they should've have just stuck with a single barrel movement and shot for three days instead of 5 days. Issue could've been avoided entirely, and the power reserve still would've been more than acceptable
@@hersheysquirt6526 it's Tudor prices at my local ad so yes it is luxuary prices. It's fucking stupid af to pay 3k for a 1500 dollar watch with a bigger power reserve when you can get a Tudor or used omega
Dear Bruce. Please pin this comment towards the top. There is a great video that reviews the movement specifically by a channel called PROWATCHES. When you see and understand the reason behind why the jump happens, you’ll realise why the ‘backing-off’ method works. There’s nothing wrong with the movement, it is a querk of the design, but the pro’s certainly out way the con’s.
When tuning a string on a guitar, you should always tune UP to pitch, never DOWN to pitch. Same on a 500 dollar guitar as a 5,000 dollar guitar. I’ve done this for the last 35 years. So if I have to overshoot the time by 5 minutes and then back up to the correct time, it’s not the end of the world. I think the watch is beautiful and is high on my list of my first luxury watch purchase.
I went ahead and bought it regardless, exactly because of some of the reasons you stated. I do hope however that if Oris does solve remedy this issue that they are courteous enough to to make the adjustment for existing owners of the cal.400.
We shall see what Oris does. In the meantime there is a super easy fix that works everytime. Just overshoot the minute by 5, then back spin it to sync the minute. It takes 3 seconds and always works. I'll make a detailed how to video tomorrow to help spread the word
@@rozsgyi If the watch is 30 s. fast, you should not have to align the hands, just wait 30 s. The hands also should not move when you push in the crown. Omega has no problem with this.
And you said, and as you expected- that issue is so dissapointing. I honestly was set on upgrading my Green Sellita Aquis, but with that issue I just can't and won't justify doing it. Buying a more expensive version of the watch I love knowing it has an issue as massive as this one seems just crazy! The good thing is it made me appreciate and love my "old" Aquis even more. Also raises some cases in the longlasting "war" between in-house calibres and more common ones (in favor of the more common ones).
Me personally I wouldn’t put up with that, not at that price point. Aesthetically I do not like Oris watches anyway, so I dont have to worry about none of it. Great Content BW !
Excellent and fair review. Many of your sentiments about ORIS reflect mine. I own a Lake Baikal and except for the pedestrian movement(which is an issue) I do like the rest. I find the build, looks and comfort of the bracelet above average and better than anything else at this price point. When I heard about the new 400 movement I was generally excited but the hacking issue is a problem for me. For that price I’m looking at Breitling SO or Avenger 2 which doesn’t have that issue(nor unfortunately the 10 year service or warranty). Anyway, it’s a great review and this just cemented my initial feeling of just saving up a little more for a Bathyscaphe.
Informative as always. However, it would have been admirable to thank EngineerWannabe for bringing this issue to light especially after, in your previous videos and comment replies, initially disregarding his experience and speculating about his motives for discussing it in a few of his videos documenting his unfortunate experience. Please consider this as feedback from a loyal fan of your channel. Keep up the great work.
Bruce, I very much appreciate your honest review, and the fact that you are not an Oris-apologist. Oris often gets a ‘pass’, and in this instance they should not. Both of my favorite ADs carry Oris. I’ve considered the 400 carefully and simply cannot justify a purchase, at any price, let alone an additional $1,500, for this flawed watch. Other than the flawed movement, there is nothing unique. Keep your Lake Baikal!
I personally dont have a problem with it, it is still an amazing movement and that 5 day power reserve is right up there. If a quirk like this is distracting some from the quality of the movement thats great means less waiting list times for the rest of us
I have purchased my second Aquis. I was waiting for the in house movement to be released but, the model I tried in the shop had the same issues. That and the extra £700 price put me off. My first Aquis has the Sellita movement and I've been more than happy with it. Straight from the box I get +2 per day which imho is fantastic. The other thing is the Sellita movement is very common and easily serviceable. So, when it needs a service or parts they be easily obtainable.
I held this and an identical watch with the standard movement side by side. The differences on the dial side are negligible but exist at the 6 o'clock position. At the rear the sapphire display back is bigger on the 400 and the movement is nicer to look at, but its no beauty and there are plenty of nicer looking movements out there hidden behind solid case backs. Incidentally the standard movement has 26 jewels so if that is a measure of quality the standard movement is superior in this regard. The standard watch is half the price and I didn't see much value in the additional power reserve on a watch I wear all the time. Likewise, I've never had an issue with magnetism on any mechanical watch I've ever owned and that includes the time before watches with batteries became the norm for most. Time keeping on the standard movement is also good enough. I find I have to manually change the date before having to adjust the time so I do the two together when the number of days in the month dictate. So for me whilst it does have advantages its not worth double the money, a 25% premium yes, but that's about it.
I think Oris' response to the issue is weak. You know the starter on my old Ford used to seize up. If Ford would have told me that this was normal and that the fix is wacking it with a hammer a few times before turning the key, I wouldn't accept that as ok either. Haha.
Wow. I got the same accuracy and the same power reserve length. And Oris must have expected questions about the minute hand jump because I got exactly the same wording to my question to them.
@@tynannida9642 All Black Bays suffer from corrosion on the aluminium sleeve around the crown tube. This is 2020, and Tudor still sells the Black Bay with an aluminium bezel insert (on a 3k watch!!!) - even Breitling have upgraded the superocean heritage to a ceramic bezel. A bigger issue is the fake rivets on the bracelet! I’ve owned both the Pelagos and the Black Bay and both had issues with the crown.
Hmm never had issues with the two black bays and one pelagos I had, not that that really means anything though. I didn’t read some talk about the supposed rust issues in a Forum post once but haven’t really heard any one else complain about it. All that said though I am much happier with my mm200, less fussy.
I wonder if over time the jumping could cause premature wear on the gears that are being aligned. It does seem pretty violent. Doing what you are suggesting seems like it would not only make it easier to set the time but also cause less wear and tear on the movement in the long run.
Thanks for the video Bruce. Like you I'm a big fan of Oris and love what they do in the value section of the market. This in house movement is a big move up in the market. I'm thinking through just how significant this"flaw' is and do not see it as such a big issue TBH. If you are in the 3 position of the crown that normally means that you are adjusting the time anyway. I admit that this would personally affect my OCD though. Love your work.
Great review, Bruce, thanks. If somehow the second hand jumped, THAT would be a problem, for me, anyway. The minute hand I assume was going to move anyway, so, not a problem for me. I just go warm and cold on the style and the price is sooo close to the Black Bay. Thanks again for the effort you put in to your videos.
The jump on the minute hand is due to user error, not reading the instructions on how to adjust the time. Do it correctly by backing the minute hand to the correct time and it doesn’t jump.
Hi Bruce! Big fan of your videos. Thanks for fair reviews without paid content from watch brands. I think that everybody has forgotten that Baume & Mercier has launched a very similar movement with 5 days of power reserve, anti magnetism and SOCS accuracy. Right now those watches cost way less that a new Oris, so I don't think they offer best value for money
Ironically the B&M has exactly the same minute hand jumping quirk. Check it out in this video (from about 40 seconds in): ruclips.net/video/P8Mam-Utb-k/видео.html
I'm not worried about the jumping hand. A quirk for sure, but not even close to a deal breaker for me. I would rather have the larger power reserve and the lower maintenance cost.
Great review Bruce. I'm sure that Oris will resolve this issue eventually and even if they don't I wouldn't see it as reason to not buy the watch. It excelled in every other area that matters , is well priced and looks pretty damn good. If the only issue with this watch is that the minute hand jumps when the watch is being set , it's a winner in my book.
it is a flaw . I will definitely stick with selita . If you want to resell it would tank even without the flaw . Add thee flaw you probably want to be very sure you have no plan to flip as I think buyer returns could be a real pain...
Although I don’t own an Oris (3 Rolex & 1 Omega in my collection) and I would chose a Tudor or Omega instead for that price, I don’t think the jumping minute is an issue as you are winding the watch anyway and Kudos to Oris from trying something new and offering such a power reserve. Regarding watch collectors or purists that you’ve mentioned, I don’t believe Oris targeted them when designing this watch. They are obviously trying to get a piece from the 3 main players in this price bracket although personally I put them one step below them but still higher than Tag although again, Tag Heuer is more recognizable as a brand for the non-watch enthusiasts :)
But tag is trying to be something it is not claiming to be prestige whilst housing it's nasty cheap movements in massively overpriced junk watches. oris is just trying to produce tool watches that function for the most part, some dressy pieces also. but they are just original pieces. Tag is plain nasty in my opinion.
@@chriscameron4618 I disagree with your position friend. What you describe as “nasty cheap movements” are basically ETA 2824 (Calibre 5) or Selita SW 300 (Calibre 11 / earlier versions used the copied by Selita ETA 2892). FYI, Tissot, Tudor, Longines, Ball, Breitling, Hamilton, etc use the same ETA 2824 movement. Tag’s Caliber 11 (Selita SW-300) is also used by Bell & Ross, IWC, etc Hublot uses the SW-200 that is 1mm thicker I believe. Bottom line, learn your stuff before talking ;)
@@eldiabolico3750i apologise i never explained properly, i do agree with you on your named movements yes 100 percent! in which case Tag can almost justify their prices, what's your thinking on the quartz movements which is what i was aiming at, my bad, i am not the most articulate and never explained that properly. Quartz movements are plain cheap, good in the fact that they are reliable and accurate but dirt cheap with the added tag heur prices and claiming them to still be prestige. i'm really good at being wrong but that's my take on it just now, i'm open and would be happy to being convinced otherwise.
@@chriscameron4618 quartz is a different story. We could also talk about them… for starters, a 1K quartz Tag is a nice entry level watch for a teenager - let’s say - that wants to start his watch collection. What I initially said is that a Tag Heuer has more recognition than Oris for non-watch collectors. I stand by that. Although I don’t own any Tag, they have some great pieces that historically have made “waves” like the Monaco for example. Tag also make tourbillons and other hi-horology complications. The company has made mistakes and people tend to be harsh on brands for that. Breitling also comes to mind… in any case, I’ve hold a quartz Tag Aquaracer in my hands and the case finish as well as the solid feeling were quite good for the price. Add that many folks want to avoid the complicated and somehow expensive service of a mechanical watch vs a quartz and that makes it a viable option for many :) Mind that I wrote recognition not value for money! For around 1K-1.2K, you can get a Longines Hydroconquest (ETA A31) , Tag Aquaracer (Quartz) or Oris Aquis (SW-200). Yet again, for my teenager boy, I would get the automatic so it can take a beating and be cheaper to service.
I can see part of your reply on quartz movements on the notifications but it's missing when i come on here again. having re read my reply to your post i was a bit (a lot) over harsh! i think your right about what you said about at the 1k point is a prefect place to start for a potential keen teen collector. i have only basically toy watches at the moment a Casio g shock for work, a vostok and smiths which is literally like a child's watch on my wrist so un useable by me and want to buy something like this oris as a daily that will rarely leave my wrist (the hand jump doesn't concern me as it will probably never be stopped) and be an all occasion including sometimes harsh times at work, have you any other watches you may recommend to consider?
This is a very nice watch, but at this price point (I mean the retail price) I expect a great movement with no faults. I have a double barrel Omega and this thing do not happen for sure!
Agree the jumping minute hand is not a deal breaker. The caveat though is does a significant price increase from the previous movement warrent this flaw? I love Oris because they dont really follow anyone and they do their own thing. The brand does need to get out in front of this because they have a lot of brand equity to protect.
I own the watch for a few weeks now and I really don’t understand we’re this is all about. With a power reserve of 120 hours you don’t have to adjust time. The watch is so accurate that you’re talking about few seconds deviation in a week not a day. You can easily adjust the hands to the correct time, turn the crown a fraction back and push it, period. No jump whatsoever. I agree it would have been better if the manual would be more informative about adjusting the hands and about winding this caliber. For me this is one of the very few modern watches that fits nicely on my relative small wrist.
Bought one. Annoying as hell! Fatal, no. Contacted Oris direct with my opinion and was given the quirkiness answer and the real answer to setting time without the jumping hands. Oris suggests setting time by adjusting minute hand ahead at least 5 minutes then moving back to desired time, then depressing crown. Works, doesn’t jump. I believe doing this is relieving whatever backlash exists in this double barrel movement, allowing all the gears involved to mesh smoothly with each other. Still crappy, not impressed.
Seiko should just mention this in their user manual for the watch. As other people have commented, it’s generally the recommended way to set a mechanical watch. I know Seiko state this in their user manuals.
If they aren't counting on selling Cal 400 to watch geeks, I wonder what they say to the non-geek who asks why the Aquis with Cal 400 costs so much more than the identical Aquis with a Sellita movement.
Very easy for any saleperson to explain the upgrades to someone wanting a nice looking swiss watch but knows very little if anything about watches and movements
I like the comparaison with omega for the twin barrels. But if I'm not mistaken, Omega use 2 barrels to produce the same torque to keep the same accuracy over the power reserve instead of increasing the duration. Is there another movement with 2 barrels for the longer power reserve that we can compare ? Great video as always 😊
I am no horolgist but at that price it should not have such an issue. I mean this is one hell of a beauty and the fact it has is so nicely finished movement it should be flawless.
I think they will fix this, and I think it will be similar to the BB GMT date change issue. It was a problem, they fixed it, and the watch is still hot. And I would consider the minute hand jumping when changing the time to be a fairly minor issue since normally you would only be doing that to set the time anyway. I think more of the issue is whether an in house movement (with admittedly some great engineering) is worth 60% more retail than the exact same watch with a Sellita movement
I think it’s fantastic that Oris have developed and brought out an in house movement, the Sellita SW200 let it down imo. However when I read in another comment that is also jumps when the crown is pushed in after hacking as well then that sounds extremely annoying! I wonder why they can’t fix the issue?
Great vid Bruce. Nice job. What a shame when Oris had their chance to tackle Omega, Breitling and Tudor to the ground and bring them down, they didn't take it. A quirk at this price is unacceptable sadly, a slide adjustment on the clasp like Rolex wouldn't hurt and some extra treatment on the reflective coating and we have success. So close yet so far. I have always loved Oris but I'm sticking to my titanium small seconds and my Clipperton. No real reason to update here !
Bruce, By definition this is NOT a fatal flow.. Cause fatal means that it kills the movement (which it doesn't). True it's annoying but, especially in this horrible year, I believe we will all survive this flaw! 😜
Not a flaw? 😂 A quirk??... A shame Oris won't admit its a fault. Hard pass from me. A shame. Christopher Ward managed a better watch, cheaper. Expect better from Oris, a bigger, older company who charge a premium for their products.
First, from a looks standpoint, and I realize this is highly subjective, I would take this Oris over the Seamaster. But if the jumping minute hand was a “normal” part of the operation of this watch, the AD would mention it before you bought it, it would be mentioned in the owners manual, and there would be a separate notice in the packaging that mentioned this issue, along with the “fix.” But I have not heard any of the watch reviewers say that Oris has done any of these things. Do some other luxury watches do this? Maybe. But being about two years into the hobby, and like most of us, having watched literally hundreds of reviews, this is the first I have heard of a watch having this issue, especially, a luxury watch. If I bought one of these, and after the fact there was this problem, I would not be very happy at that point to be told by Oris, or the AD that this is “normal.” Because like I said, if this was normal, the buyer would be made aware of this long before he or she ever walked out of this store. Regardless of what Oris may now be sayings, this is a design flaw in their new in-house movement, And when they have solved the problem, and they will, they really need to take back, and either fix, or replace any watch already out there that has this problem.
I got my cal.400 in January this year and it did come with a very brief note explaining this all and the “3-5min past the time, then back to the exact min you have hacked the moment to set “ fix. This is 100% a non-issue IMO….
I'm new to the watch game, so can someone please explain to me what the big deal is about the minute hand jumping when you pull the crown out? Is it just too overwhelming to simply move it back to the right minute marker? I understand frustration with it jumping when you push the crown back in but they've already explained to avoid it you just go past the minute marker and then back to the right one. But I seriously don't understand the complaint about it jumping when you pull the crown out. You're setting the time anyways so who cares if it jumps a minute or two.
That's exactly my thinking. And if you do it like I do, you pull the crown out when the seconfds are at zero, so you would always want to do a little adjustment anyway. I am not an expert - just someone who enjoys a mechanical watch.
No issue with it from me. I will take the blows for sure, but if setting it with the back method zero issues. Killer anti magnetic, 120 hour reserve, plus regulated. Those are all wins.
10 year service intervals/warranty to boot
Huge wins. Plus the new method for fixing the jump makes it even more of a non issue
I feel like Rob’s instruction on setting the time forward 5 minutes and then pulling it back to the proper time is an easy to follow instruction on setting the time. I kind of wonder why Oris didn’t put that info in the instruction manual. Or maybe it is in there. I’ve never read it. Maybe Oris didn’t want to bring any attention to the quirk so they just don’t bring it up. who knows.
@@malkinmalone probably didn't know about it
The sheer amount of negativity is uncalled for. The reason you hack the movement is to set time, how does it matter if the minute hand jumps a little or not, you are going to set the time anyways.
Tell me another Swiss Made watch with in-house developed movement with 5 days power reserve, 10 year warranty, original watch design for under $3,500?
I disagree and don’t see it being a problem as when you’re hacking a movement your correcting the time anyway. I would only see it as a flaw if it happened when you pushed the crown in afterwards.
I have a couple of high horology watches that do that and it is annoying from a quality watch. I see it when you reengage the crown!
I could see someone being disappointed that after wearing the watch for 5 or 6 days you can’t hack the movement and wait 10 or 15 seconds to allow the seconds hand to resynchronize and then push back in at the proper time. This would make the minute hand jump. I know its not the end of the world but some people who wear automatic watches do that every few days. I’m not well versed in high horology but my marine master and my planet ocean do not jump at all when i do this and they are roughly in the same price group. Like i said not the end of the world and its still a great watch, but not something i would expect from a 3500 dollar watch. Anyone have some examples of another watch that does this?
@Craig G Well two of my watches are just very sensitive to any input rather than stepping automatically like that Oris.
True
I have several Omegas, a Seiko a Longines and a Certina and they do not have this problem. My latest Omega tresor has double barrels also. I am very meticulous when setting the time so that the minute and the seconds hand corelate so instead of just pulling the crown for half a minute, say, you now must align the hands. If the minute hand moves when you push the crown back in it is even worse.
The way to solve the jump is to set the time you want and then instead of pressing the crown back in right away (which will make the minute hand jump) just back the crown off in the opposite direction just enough to take the slack out of it. Doing this disengages the little cog that changes the time. No when you press in the crown there will be no jump.
1) Again, set the time.
2) twist the crown slightly in the opposite direction just enough to take take the slack out of it.
3) press the crown in.
There will be no jump.
As long as the hand doesn't jump AFTER you set the time, I do not see the problem. Watch geeks are silly.
That is the issue, it jumps when you push it back in
That recommended wiggle back and forth before pushing the crown in is something I do with all my watches anyway. The minute hand always seems to jump a very small amount without the wiggle.
@@gerardoesquivel9919 Yes I do the wiggle with every watch before pushing the crown in so the minute hand doesn't do even the slightest jump.
I'm not still saying it's acceptable. I might have never noticed that if the wiggle helps.
Sorry that is an issue
@@BruceWilliams You should edit your reply now that you know winding the watch back 5 min when setting, the hands do not jump, making this a non-issue.
I love the watch, I love the movement, I hate the 210 times of windings and the jumping minute hand 😄⌚
I don’t consider the hand moving to be fatal at all. Many high Horology movements have the same issue.
Exactly and I would have thought any serious watch collector would know this. This whole thing has been blown out of all proportion - There is no flaw and there is no issue.
@@roymorrison6713 except an 80€ Seiko doesn't do that.
@@heinrich3427 I understand, but I don't want a watch with a jumping hand , may it be a Rolex . I am annoyed by that and I would never buy a watch with that "feature" . I would buy a basic aquis with a non in house movement.
@@SkyNikita322 An $80 Seiko hasn't got a 5 day power reserve, it doesn't have the same accuracy standards and it doesn't have 10 year service intervals, as generally those movements are replaced rather than serviced as it wouldn't make financial sense. Watchmakers bins are full of them, but it's not a fair comparison anyway and the day's of $80 seiko's is at an end.
Mark, the issue also happens when you push the crown back in. The minute hand jumps a couple or even 3 minutes ahead defeating the purpose of time setting or syncing. Maybe you mean pulling the crown only, but pushing the crown? I don't think that happens to other high end movements.
The IWC in-house movement in the Automatic Spitfire has the same quirk as this Oris. The solution, as others have said, is to set the watch ahead a few minutes and then wind back to the correct time before pushing the crown back in.
This is actually a GOOD PRACTICE IN GENERAL for accurate time-setting, even if your movement doesn’t have the jumping minute hand “problem.” Austin Daniels has talked about this before, and he always sets his Rolexes exactly like this.
I don't think that the issue with the minute hand will affect my liking of this movement. It's really not hard to adjust.
Are ppl here saying they can ignore a jumping minute hand from a movement from an expensive watch, but not a misaligned bezel or a non winding movement 🤔 from a cheaper watch
Great comment.
Misaligned bezel? Ha! I've had two Rolexes with misaligned bezels and a new sub that lasted exactly 53 weeks before the movement seized.
Let’s challenge that statement! A jumping minute hand doesn’t effect its function or efficiency as a time keeping piece. A misaligned bezel and non-winding movement does.
Bruce, my man.... FINALLY someone that have the balls to tell it like it is!!! after watching in DISGUST of the whole RUclips watch enthusiast community bragging about this watch and movement without mentioning the moving minute hand FLAW, it’s obvious to me they are being baught by Oris. But it’s just annoying that they avoid the issue too. Even when I commented on various channels (Teddy and Urban Gentry to name two examples) and they have no idea about this fault? How come? do you believe that enthusiast that work and read about watches daily don’t know about this issue??? Obviously they do. I’m with you one this one. I love Oris. I love the model. I love the fact that they are going in-house. But this is just embarrassing having a minute hand jumping when setting the watch, especially being that it is in this price range. for 3500 you are in the same league as omega, gran seiko and Tudor that all have better in-house movements and watches. Love your channel btw.
With the overshoot method, there is no fatal flaw. The 'fatal flaw' has now been reduced to a quirk. Thanks Bruce and Rob.
I don’t have that a big an issue with the minute hand issue. I would consider buying one if I hadn’t just bought another Acquis.
No issue at all. As long as it doesn’t jump after the setting. Great watch.
Although I appreciate your thorough review, I thought It would be noble to thank EngineerWannabe for his original posting of his issues with this movement....the same individual that you called out as “disingenuous” for expressing and providing his actual, unfortunate experience with this movement (a watch that he actually purchased). I would say, good on him for keeping us collectors informed.
Where did he call him that?
You will see the details through Engineer Wannabe’s community postings (occurred one month ago).
I am not gonna spend 3K for this watch that jumps backwards every time I hack. They should acknowledge it as a flaw and have it rectified.
Class leading at this price - Christopher Ward might have something to say about that. They released the SH21 movement years ago. There's no minute hand jumping, and it's COSC, this movement isn't.
Does it have a 10 year warranty and 10 year service interval? The 400 does.
As an enthusiast,when you pull the crown out, you are going to be fixing the time anyway. Not a deal breaker for me if the movement is solid.
thats what came to my mind watching the video, dont understand the whole fuss about it...
The minute hand also jumps as you push the crown back in. That's the main problem here.
@@theaussiewhinger oh, I see thx!
@@theaussiewhinger there is a work around!
You literally said exactly what I was typing about Omega's double barrel..no issues at all.
That sounds like an engineering excuse..."you aren't using the watch correctly"...ala Apple with their poor antenna design...apple's explanation.."you aren't holding your phone correctly"
I was going to replace my Sellita Aquis with 400, but I'll be holding onto it longer I think.
Honestly this was one of the most exciting watch releases of the year to me. I don't think this is a fatal flaw but I understand why it is to many, but if it can be avoided with just a little wiggle while pushing in/pulling out the crown, so be it. I'm a huge fan of in-house movements and it's great to see Oris come out with a banger. I'm just hoping they eventually put it in a watch that's small enough for my tiny wrist - preferably a 39mm or less.
Well, they put it in a 41.5. Hope that works for you. And you are right, it's not a fatal flaw. It's not even a flaw.
If Oris never try to solve the minute jumping issue and take this issue as a normal phenomenon for 2 barrel movement , there will be many people keep away from this watch including me. Thank you for your honesty in this review.
Christopher Ward has Calibre SH21 Automatic 5 day power reserve less expensive and no such issues.
yeah but the watch is huge because I'm assuming the movement is as well
@@philipmallory1 CW is huge? CW C1 Morgan Classic Chronometer - Traditional Wings - case 40,5mm, height 11,85mm, 120hrs, 29 jewels, COSC vs Oris Aquis 43,5mm, 120 hrs, 21 jewels, no COSC
@@larsserin huh. Guess I remembered wrong! Thanks for the help.
@@larsserin but this one is hand-wound and not automatic
CW's watches are much uglier than the Oris Aquis though. Especially this Aquis is gorgeous.
Edited comment - sorry didn’t realise it jumped when pushing back in. That’s a dealbreaker alright given the cost
Bottom line, setting a watch shouldn’t require a trick to do so! Does a Tudor have this issue? What Seiko has this issue? In house movements are overrated particularly when they are as finicky as a Jaguar V12.
I never understood the hype of “in-house” beyond it being an interesting talking point. I would certainly prefer a watch with a Sellita movement over a Seiko 5 one.
Does it bother anyone to have to wind the watch 240 times?
Oris, fix this 'problem', what is wrong with you. this is not a quirk, it is a problem. FIX IT.
I've had this watch for several weeks now - while it does suffer from the occasional hand jump, I have found that I can completely negate that by simply being gentle with my handling of the crown. Get a solid grip of the crown between forefinger and thumb and gently exert pressure in pushing and pulling - interesting that being gentle causes no jumping of the hand at all. So I figure as long as I am gentle with my handling - there is no issue and no jumping.
Perfect your comment, very valuable for your experience. The solution to the problem lies in the good treatment of the company with the crown.
Not shooting like a madman thirty times like Bruce is illogical.
Enjoy your watch, great acquisition!
@@chrisc7384 It is a great watch - Oris's suggestion on the jumping hand works too I have found. Roll the hand past your intended time by 5/10 minutes, then roll back to set your desired time. Push in, no jump.
I am glad this video covers this issue and it’s very honest and not sensationalized in my opinion. I feel like some people skip over it and that’s not good and then others act like the issue makes the watch defective which is not true either. Great perspective here. I am not a watch maker and so everything i say on this should be taken with a grain if salt. Oris can’t come out and say all these watches have a flaw and should be returned. 1. its not that bad and the watch still functions and keeps good time. 2. They may not have a practical cost effective solution for better hacking function yet. My gut instinct is that they will eventually be able to make small changes in the movement that keeps this from happening. And those movements will be implemented over time and eventually people will buy watches that do not do this. I don’t think Oris will ever say anything about it the fact that they are making changes because why would they want to go back and retrofit old watches with these parts. That doesn’t seem practical. There are so many details in a watch movement I don’t think there is one watch movement that has been made perfectly on the first try. Things like this are always being streamlined and improved over time and I think that is totally acceptable.
I have watched watch youtube videos till they came out of my ears. I like Omega's Rolex and most of the Lala land brands, however coma they are just too expensive. Yes, you can buy used but for my eyes and finances still too expensive. Then I stumble upon this watch. when the videos first appeared. Still too expensive, but taking into account the new movement, the time reserve, and the warranty, and the service interval. It costs money most times a buttload of money to service these watches The one I purchased doesn't have the jumping hand issue. And so what if it does if this is an everyday carry It does its job and looks good doing it. I am 65 years old and I was wearing watches before quartz. I always wanted a new high rent watch now I have one I couldn't be happier.
Excellent review Bruce. Thank you for giving your honest thoughts on this. I still love Oris watches :)
Me too, Oris is outstanding
Good journalism Bruce.
Great, great review Bruce. Left nothing uncovered in going through the key points about this watch. This is a success in many ways for Oris in my opinion and you helped explain how that's true on balance. Wish Oris and you continued success. Side note, thanks to you, I have VC on my mind daily. Think I'm going to have to turn in my collection and get that grail. Cheers Bruce!
"With the April sale of Breitling to CVC Capital Partners, and with most big Swiss watch brands currently owned by larger luxury groups, the population of truly independent Swiss watch brands is near non-existent. Yet Oris has been able to retain its independent, family-run status throughout almost all of its entire 113-year history of making mechanical tool watches."
Oris rich history and loyalty to its quality before quantity is a big plus for me, from a philosophical perspective it should be one of the most respected and loved watch brand out there, especially for a real watch enthusiast. I get more impressed seeing people wearing Oris then a Tudor or a Rolex. A Oris feels like culture. But its just in my opinion,
Hi Bruce I get a similar thing with my rolex Explorer II which I bought new from a Rolex authorised dealer 6 years ago. It has had one service since at the 5 year mark by Rolex. Basically there's play in the minute hand occasionally when pulling the crown out or pushing the crown in........ Not quite as much as the Oris though......
I hope ORIS figures this out and gets it fixed soon...are you listening ORIS? Thank you for the video!
Please make me understand why it is a problem that the minute hand jumps a little when you pull the crown ? I think normally when you pull the crown you would do that to set the time any way . If not why would you pull the crown ?
I don't feel the minute hand jumping is that big of an issue. If I'm pulling the crown all the way out I'm going to have to adjust the time regardless. I mean it's not like the date stops moving like another watch I know...
@@gerardoesquivel9919 Ummm sorry but did you actually watch the video. 8:05 he explains it that it happens when you PULL the crown out. NOT when you push it back in. At 8:37 Bruce PULLS the crown out, the minute hand jumps, proceeds to set the time, and PUSHES the crown back in and nothing happens.
@@1320Mustang It also happens when you push the crown, too. You can see the issue on other RUclips channels. Check out Engineer Wannabe's videos where the issue happens when the crown is both pulled and pushed.
@@inkhaurt5812 Just watched it and that's sad it i jumped on pushing the crown in. Had this only been the issue when pulling the crown out I probably would've bought one but seeing this makes me really hesitant on it
When you pull the crown in time setting position, then you're in any case going to set the time. The jumping minute hand is definitively not a problem in that case. It would have been if it was doing so while setting the date...
No problem for me.
Anyway, reading the comments, I see it does it also when exiting from the time setting mode. Well that may be not good at all. Actually also 7750s have something similar: you need to advance time and go back 1-2mins to have the time set correctly. If you advance and exit, then the minute hand will take 1-2m to start moving again.
It’s a quirk, and it adds personality. When I adjust the time on my watch(es), I don’t land perfectly on the exact minute and often rewind time-wise to the correct time anyway. I’m also not the type to be adjusting the time daily, let alone weekly. Haha I would take it with a grain of salt; this issue/quirk is relatively a non-issue considering the innovations with the caliber 400 movement
Thank you for a fantastic review Bruce. I actually don't mind the jumping minute hand (I am sure time setting would become automatic over time), but I think the additional $1K for this new movement is just too much for me.
My thing is that if the wonky minute hand is the ONLY issue on a this brand new movement. Its not THAT big of a deal, especially with the accuracy/power reserve it's not like your having to reset it every other day.
However I still retain that they should've have just stuck with a single barrel movement and shot for three days instead of 5 days. Issue could've been avoided entirely, and the power reserve still would've been more than acceptable
So sad I’ve have an omega with double Barrels and it doesn’t do this
Oris need to fix. It’s a big no from me
Naaaaaah, this is definitely unacceptable for a $3,000 watch. It would frankly be unacceptable for a $500 watch too.
3k isn't much tbqh, that's not even luxury level yet
@@hersheysquirt6526 it's Tudor prices at my local ad so yes it is luxuary prices. It's fucking stupid af to pay 3k for a 1500 dollar watch with a bigger power reserve when you can get a Tudor or used omega
Dear Bruce. Please pin this comment towards the top. There is a great video that reviews the movement specifically by a channel called PROWATCHES. When you see and understand the reason behind why the jump happens, you’ll realise why the ‘backing-off’ method works. There’s nothing wrong with the movement, it is a querk of the design, but the pro’s certainly out way the con’s.
Thanks for good video Bruce. Right in time after hard workday
I appreciate that! Trying to keep the daily vids coming through the month
My omega planet ocean doesn't do that. Yet.
When tuning a string on a guitar, you should always tune UP to pitch, never DOWN to pitch. Same on a 500 dollar guitar as a 5,000 dollar guitar. I’ve done this for the last 35 years. So if I have to overshoot the time by 5 minutes and then back up to the correct time, it’s not the end of the world. I think the watch is beautiful and is high on my list of my first luxury watch purchase.
I went ahead and bought it regardless, exactly because of some of the reasons you stated. I do hope however that if Oris does solve remedy this issue that they are courteous enough to to make the adjustment for existing owners of the cal.400.
We shall see what Oris does. In the meantime there is a super easy fix that works everytime. Just overshoot the minute by 5, then back spin it to sync the minute. It takes 3 seconds and always works. I'll make a detailed how to video tomorrow to help spread the word
@@BruceWilliams I'm not having that much of a problem, a little wiggle and back and forth crown and it drops right in place to the second.
Ouch! With the increased price I wouldn't expect that to happen at all. I love Oris and hope that they will fix the issue soon. 😊
you pull the crown to adjust the time in first place, why is it an issue I don't understand
@@rozsgyi If the watch is 30 s. fast, you should not have to align the hands, just wait 30 s. The hands also should not move when you push in the crown. Omega has no problem with this.
This has been discussed endlessly on the forums and it is a feature of this caliber, not a bug. It is one of Oris's best-resolved calibers to date.
Thanks for your in-depth overview of the Oris Cal 400 movement. It was very well balanced with pro's and con's for this timepiece.
And you said, and as you expected- that issue is so dissapointing. I honestly was set on upgrading my Green Sellita Aquis, but with that issue I just can't and won't justify doing it. Buying a more expensive version of the watch I love knowing it has an issue as massive as this one seems just crazy! The good thing is it made me appreciate and love my "old" Aquis even more. Also raises some cases in the longlasting "war" between in-house calibres and more common ones (in favor of the more common ones).
Me personally I wouldn’t put up with that, not at that price point. Aesthetically I do not like Oris watches anyway, so I dont have to worry about none of it. Great Content BW !
The cal 400 made the ETA cheaper so hey now I might get one of the old ones. Cannot pay Tudor prices for a Oris not without a bigger step up
Excellent and fair review. Many of your sentiments about ORIS reflect mine. I own a Lake Baikal and except for the pedestrian movement(which is an issue) I do like the rest. I find the build, looks and comfort of the bracelet above average and better than anything else at this price point. When I heard about the new 400 movement I was generally excited but the hacking issue is a problem for me. For that price I’m looking at Breitling SO or Avenger 2 which doesn’t have that issue(nor unfortunately the 10 year service or warranty). Anyway, it’s a great review and this just cemented my initial feeling of just saving up a little more for a Bathyscaphe.
Informative as always. However, it would have been admirable to thank EngineerWannabe for bringing this issue to light especially after, in your previous videos and comment replies, initially disregarding his experience and speculating about his motives for discussing it in a few of his videos documenting his unfortunate experience. Please consider this as feedback from a loyal fan of your channel. Keep up the great work.
Bruce, I very much appreciate your honest review, and the fact that you are not an Oris-apologist. Oris often gets a ‘pass’, and in this instance they should not. Both of my favorite ADs carry Oris. I’ve considered the 400 carefully and simply cannot justify a purchase, at any price, let alone an additional $1,500, for this flawed watch. Other than the flawed movement, there is nothing unique. Keep your Lake Baikal!
I think you gave a fair and honest review. Overall you spoke well of the watch and just pointed out a flaw in it.
It's a "quirk", yeah, sure Oris. Not at that price point.
Thanks for the heads-up, Bruce! That’s good to know!
I personally dont have a problem with it, it is still an amazing movement and that 5 day power reserve is right up there. If a quirk like this is distracting some from the quality of the movement thats great means less waiting list times for the rest of us
You must be kidding there ain't a waiting list for an Oris lmao
With that issue i still happy buy it if worth $ 1000. Still very good build quality and great PR.
I have purchased my second Aquis. I was waiting for the in house movement to be released but, the model I tried in the shop had the same issues. That and the extra £700 price put me off. My first Aquis has the Sellita movement and I've been more than happy with it. Straight from the box I get +2 per day which imho is fantastic. The other thing is the Sellita movement is very common and easily serviceable. So, when it needs a service or parts they be easily obtainable.
I held this and an identical watch with the standard movement side by side. The differences on the dial side are negligible but exist at the 6 o'clock position. At the rear the sapphire display back is bigger on the 400 and the movement is nicer to look at, but its no beauty and there are plenty of nicer looking movements out there hidden behind solid case backs. Incidentally the standard movement has 26 jewels so if that is a measure of quality the standard movement is superior in this regard. The standard watch is half the price and I didn't see much value in the additional power reserve on a watch I wear all the time. Likewise, I've never had an issue with magnetism on any mechanical watch I've ever owned and that includes the time before watches with batteries became the norm for most. Time keeping on the standard movement is also good enough. I find I have to manually change the date before having to adjust the time so I do the two together when the number of days in the month dictate. So for me whilst it does have advantages its not worth double the money, a 25% premium yes, but that's about it.
I think Oris' response to the issue is weak. You know the starter on my old Ford used to seize up. If Ford would have told me that this was normal and that the fix is wacking it with a hammer a few times before turning the key, I wouldn't accept that as ok either. Haha.
Wow. I got the same accuracy and the same power reserve length. And Oris must have expected questions about the minute hand jump because I got exactly the same wording to my question to them.
When you are setting the time, before you click the crown back in, rotate it backwards a little bit first and then click it back in and it won't jump.
You said you would buy it in the first video. I remember!
When a watch cost around 3~4K, issue like this one is unforgivable. Very disappointed in this brand.
Can you name a watch in this price range that is issue free?
Black bay with out gmt ?
@@tynannida9642 All Black Bays suffer from corrosion on the aluminium sleeve around the crown tube. This is 2020, and Tudor still sells the Black Bay with an aluminium bezel insert (on a 3k watch!!!) - even Breitling have upgraded the superocean heritage to a ceramic bezel. A bigger issue is the fake rivets on the bracelet! I’ve owned both the Pelagos and the Black Bay and both had issues with the crown.
Hmm never had issues with the two black bays and one pelagos I had, not that that really means anything though.
I didn’t read some talk about the supposed rust issues in a Forum post once but haven’t really heard any one else complain about it.
All that said though I am much happier with my mm200, less fussy.
You need to go forward 5 min and then back to time you want so the gears in place.
You probably should do this with all watches.
Yes, I'll make a how to video soon. That should help get the word out
I wonder if over time the jumping could cause premature wear on the gears that are being aligned. It does seem pretty violent. Doing what you are suggesting seems like it would not only make it easier to set the time but also cause less wear and tear on the movement in the long run.
When you hack the movement try pulling the crown out slowly.This may mitigate the jumping problem.
Also wiggle the crown back and forth a little bit. Its also worth noting that once it jumps and the barrels are "in sync" it doesn't jump any more.
I’m going to buy the watch. It’s a stunning watch.
Thanks for the video Bruce. Like you I'm a big fan of Oris and love what they do in the value section of the market. This in house movement is a big move up in the market. I'm thinking through just how significant this"flaw' is and do not see it as such a big issue TBH. If you are in the 3 position of the crown that normally means that you are adjusting the time anyway. I admit that this would personally affect my OCD though. Love your work.
Great video as always Bruce.
As a Seiko Tuna collector, I can honestly say...
Seiko Tuna Can > Oris Hockey Puck
Seiko Tuna rules all day everyday, have 6 tunas myself
😂😂
Just move on to the next watch if this makes you anxious. I've never been into Oris and there are many other alternatives
Great review, Bruce, thanks. If somehow the second hand jumped, THAT would be a problem, for me, anyway. The minute hand I assume was going to move anyway, so, not a problem for me. I just go warm and cold on the style and the price is sooo close to the Black Bay. Thanks again for the effort you put in to your videos.
The same "fatal flaw" happens on the IWC 32111 Calibre, which is a Val Fleurier movement which is also used on the Panerai P.900.
The jump on the minute hand is due to user error, not reading the instructions on how to adjust the time. Do it correctly by backing the minute hand to the correct time and it doesn’t jump.
Hi Bruce! Big fan of your videos. Thanks for fair reviews without paid content from watch brands. I think that everybody has forgotten that Baume & Mercier has launched a very similar movement with 5 days of power reserve, anti magnetism and SOCS accuracy. Right now those watches cost way less that a new Oris, so I don't think they offer best value for money
Not an AD :) Just info
Ironically the B&M has exactly the same minute hand jumping quirk. Check it out in this video (from about 40 seconds in):
ruclips.net/video/P8Mam-Utb-k/видео.html
I'm not worried about the jumping hand. A quirk for sure, but not even close to a deal breaker for me. I would rather have the larger power reserve and the lower maintenance cost.
Great review Bruce. I'm sure that Oris will resolve this issue eventually and even if they don't I wouldn't see it as reason to not buy the watch. It excelled in every other area that matters , is well priced and looks pretty damn good. If the only issue with this watch is that the minute hand jumps when the watch is being set , it's a winner in my book.
it is a flaw . I will definitely stick with selita . If you want to resell it would tank even without the flaw . Add thee flaw you probably want to be very sure you have no plan to flip as I think buyer returns could be a real pain...
Although I don’t own an Oris (3 Rolex & 1 Omega in my collection) and I would chose a Tudor or Omega instead for that price, I don’t think the jumping minute is an issue as you are winding the watch anyway and Kudos to Oris from trying something new and offering such a power reserve. Regarding watch collectors or purists that you’ve mentioned, I don’t believe Oris targeted them when designing this watch. They are obviously trying to get a piece from the 3 main players in this price bracket although personally I put them one step below them but still higher than Tag although again, Tag Heuer is more recognizable as a brand for the non-watch enthusiasts :)
But tag is trying to be something it is not claiming to be prestige whilst housing it's nasty cheap movements in massively overpriced junk watches. oris is just trying to produce tool watches that function for the most part, some dressy pieces also. but they are just original pieces. Tag is plain nasty in my opinion.
@@chriscameron4618 I disagree with your position friend. What you describe as “nasty cheap movements” are basically ETA 2824 (Calibre 5) or Selita SW 300 (Calibre 11 / earlier versions used the copied by Selita ETA 2892).
FYI, Tissot, Tudor, Longines, Ball, Breitling, Hamilton, etc use the same ETA 2824 movement.
Tag’s Caliber 11 (Selita SW-300) is also used by Bell & Ross, IWC, etc Hublot uses the SW-200 that is 1mm thicker I believe.
Bottom line, learn your stuff before talking ;)
@@eldiabolico3750i apologise i never explained properly, i do agree with you on your named movements yes 100 percent! in which case Tag can almost justify their prices, what's your thinking on the quartz movements which is what i was aiming at, my bad, i am not the most articulate and never explained that properly. Quartz movements are plain cheap, good in the fact that they are reliable and accurate but dirt cheap with the added tag heur prices and claiming them to still be prestige. i'm really good at being wrong but that's my take on it just now, i'm open and would be happy to being convinced otherwise.
@@chriscameron4618 quartz is a different story. We could also talk about them… for starters, a 1K quartz Tag is a nice entry level watch for a teenager - let’s say - that wants to start his watch collection. What I initially said is that a Tag Heuer has more recognition than Oris for non-watch collectors. I stand by that. Although I don’t own any Tag, they have some great pieces that historically have made “waves” like the Monaco for example. Tag also make tourbillons and other hi-horology complications. The company has made mistakes and people tend to be harsh on brands for that. Breitling also comes to mind… in any case, I’ve hold a quartz Tag Aquaracer in my hands and the case finish as well as the solid feeling were quite good for the price. Add that many folks want to avoid the complicated and somehow expensive service of a mechanical watch vs a quartz and that makes it a viable option for many :)
Mind that I wrote recognition not value for money! For around 1K-1.2K, you can get a Longines Hydroconquest (ETA A31) , Tag Aquaracer (Quartz) or Oris Aquis (SW-200). Yet again, for my teenager boy, I would get the automatic so it can take a beating and be cheaper to service.
I can see part of your reply on quartz movements on the notifications but it's missing when i come on here again. having re read my reply to your post i was a bit (a lot) over harsh! i think your right about what you said about at the 1k point is a prefect place to start for a potential keen teen collector. i have only basically toy watches at the moment a Casio g shock for work, a vostok and smiths which is literally like a child's watch on my wrist so un useable by me and want to buy something like this oris as a daily that will rarely leave my wrist (the hand jump doesn't concern me as it will probably never be stopped) and be an all occasion including sometimes harsh times at work, have you any other watches you may recommend to consider?
This is a very nice watch, but at this price point (I mean the retail price) I expect a great movement with no faults. I have a double barrel Omega and this thing do not happen for sure!
I'll wait for the Calibur 401 that doesn't jump when you hack the movement.
Agree the jumping minute hand is not a deal breaker. The caveat though is does a significant price increase from the previous movement warrent this flaw? I love Oris because they dont really follow anyone and they do their own thing. The brand does need to get out in front of this because they have a lot of brand equity to protect.
I own the watch for a few weeks now and I really don’t understand we’re this is all about. With a power reserve of 120 hours you don’t have to adjust time. The watch is so accurate that you’re talking about few seconds deviation in a week not a day. You can easily adjust the hands to the correct time, turn the crown a fraction back and push it, period. No jump whatsoever. I agree it would have been better if the manual would be more informative about adjusting the hands and about winding this caliber. For me this is one of the very few modern watches that fits nicely on my relative small wrist.
Bought one. Annoying as hell! Fatal, no. Contacted Oris direct with my opinion and was given the quirkiness answer and the real answer to setting time without the jumping hands. Oris suggests setting time by adjusting minute hand ahead at least 5 minutes then moving back to desired time, then depressing crown. Works, doesn’t jump. I believe doing this is relieving whatever backlash exists in this double barrel movement, allowing all the gears involved to mesh smoothly with each other. Still crappy, not impressed.
Yes, I'll make a video about the overshoot method this weekend to help spread the word
Seiko should just mention this in their user manual for the watch. As other people have commented, it’s generally the recommended way to set a mechanical watch. I know Seiko state this in their user manuals.
No issues from me. Best watch I ever bought sub/tudor killer
My wife’s Rolex oyster perpetual 34mm with the caliber 2232 does the same thing sometimes
If they aren't counting on selling Cal 400 to watch geeks, I wonder what they say to the non-geek who asks why the Aquis with Cal 400 costs so much more than the identical Aquis with a Sellita movement.
Better accuracy and power reserve? Regular people use those functions too
Very easy for any saleperson to explain the upgrades to someone wanting a nice looking swiss watch but knows very little if anything about watches and movements
I like the comparaison with omega for the twin barrels. But if I'm not mistaken, Omega use 2 barrels to produce the same torque to keep the same accuracy over the power reserve instead of increasing the duration. Is there another movement with 2 barrels for the longer power reserve that we can compare ? Great video as always 😊
CW SH21, twin barrels, 120 hrs power reserve, no jumping minute hand...
I am no horolgist but at that price it should not have such an issue. I mean this is one hell of a beauty and the fact it has is so nicely finished movement it should be flawless.
I think they will fix this, and I think it will be similar to the BB GMT date change issue. It was a problem, they fixed it, and the watch is still hot. And I would consider the minute hand jumping when changing the time to be a fairly minor issue since normally you would only be doing that to set the time anyway. I think more of the issue is whether an in house movement (with admittedly some great engineering) is worth 60% more retail than the exact same watch with a Sellita movement
I think it’s fantastic that Oris have developed and brought out an in house movement, the Sellita SW200 let it down imo. However when I read in another comment that is also jumps when the crown is pushed in after hacking as well then that sounds extremely annoying! I wonder why they can’t fix the issue?
Great vid Bruce. Nice job.
What a shame when Oris had their chance to tackle Omega, Breitling and Tudor to the ground and bring them down, they didn't take it. A quirk at this price is unacceptable sadly, a slide adjustment on the clasp like Rolex wouldn't hurt and some extra treatment on the reflective coating and we have success. So close yet so far. I have always loved Oris but I'm sticking to my titanium small seconds and my Clipperton. No real reason to update here !
That accuracy is strange. The deviation is crazy. It is like Seiko. My Tudor Pelagos is always -1 second per day. I love it!
My grand seiko 0 sek per day
@Grizzly outstanding
Bruce,
By definition this is NOT a fatal flow.. Cause fatal means that it kills the movement (which it doesn't). True it's annoying but, especially in this horrible year, I believe we will all survive this flaw! 😜
Not a flaw? 😂 A quirk??...
A shame Oris won't admit its a fault.
Hard pass from me. A shame.
Christopher Ward managed a better watch, cheaper. Expect better from Oris, a bigger, older company who charge a premium for their products.
First, from a looks standpoint, and I realize this is highly subjective, I would take this Oris over the Seamaster. But if the jumping minute hand was a “normal” part of the operation of this watch, the AD would mention it before you bought it, it would be mentioned in the owners manual, and there would be a separate notice in the packaging that mentioned this issue, along with the “fix.” But I have not heard any of the watch reviewers say that Oris has done any of these things. Do some other luxury watches do this? Maybe. But being about two years into the hobby, and like most of us, having watched literally hundreds of reviews, this is the first I have heard of a watch having this issue, especially, a luxury watch. If I bought one of these, and after the fact there was this problem, I would not be very happy at that point to be told by Oris, or the AD that this is “normal.” Because like I said, if this was normal, the buyer would be made aware of this long before he or she ever walked out of this store. Regardless of what Oris may now be sayings, this is a design flaw in their new in-house movement, And when they have solved the problem, and they will, they really need to take back, and either fix, or replace any watch already out there that has this problem.
Still very early in the release. We shall see if anything is changed or clarified
I got my cal.400 in January this year and it did come with a very brief note explaining this all and the “3-5min past the time, then back to the exact min you have hacked the moment to set “ fix.
This is 100% a non-issue IMO….
I'm new to the watch game, so can someone please explain to me what the big deal is about the minute hand jumping when you pull the crown out? Is it just too overwhelming to simply move it back to the right minute marker? I understand frustration with it jumping when you push the crown back in but they've already explained to avoid it you just go past the minute marker and then back to the right one. But I seriously don't understand the complaint about it jumping when you pull the crown out. You're setting the time anyways so who cares if it jumps a minute or two.
That's exactly my thinking. And if you do it like I do, you pull the crown out when the seconfds are at zero, so you would always want to do a little adjustment anyway.
I am not an expert - just someone who enjoys a mechanical watch.