I think your standpoint is kind of funny because of how you think anyone views doing things on an ironman as "prestigious" ironman game mode is not any harder compared to a main for combat. It's literally just more time. There is no prestige in getting something on an iron and most mains dont care you're an iron in 99% of scenarios it's entirely a self imposed restriction. I'm an iron in pretty late game at this point, and i dont view myself as better compared to a main account or having more prestige because I had to kill 3k of a boss to get an item. I've also completed the soulreaper axe on an iron and have done 2k vard KC , so im not speaking out of touch here. I think a massive issue with ingots isn't even just irons not being able to get them to complete the rings, it's also just a crap drop that most people who farm as trade accounts hate them as well. I currently have a surplus of the ingots so this isn't even me being salty about not getting enough myself. The funniest part about all of this is why you think ingots were even put onto the drop tables. This had nothing to even do originally with restricting ironmen on making them (if I had to guess), these are a by-product of Jagex wanting to make accounts farming the bosses have a crafting level before selling them to restrict the flow of them onto the market. Now that there is a massive surplus of ingots in trade they're a useless drop. I personally don't see any logical reason to have ingots even be items, they only effect ironmen at this point. Your blood rune example is so uneducated and just spits in the face of peoples time. No endgame ironman was crafting their blood runes to get them anyway, almost every ironman was buying their blood runes from the rune shops. Crafting blood runes to get blood runes to use actively is only something people who dont want to play the game and just want to AFK do. It's incredibly slow & not worth it compared to buying runes from the shop. All the Scar essence mine did was save people their lives/time by making you pay shop prices or more to get runes faster. It just saves people from the dogwater gameplay of world hopping to buy runes from the shops. There is no skill in world hopping for 3 hours to buy blood runes vs doing a shortcut to get that amount in 30-40 minutes of runecrafting it just saves you time.
Hey, thank you for your comment. I'll answer to each paragraph separately since I want to make sure to address all of your points. I don't view "prestige" in this context as a flex or something to flaunt, just the fact that by the very nature of ironman mode you have to get every item yourself, so I don't think there's anything wrong with keepings these rings rare on an iron, especially since there are viable alternatives. You can spend a moderate amount of time and get +8 strength bonus Berserker imbued, or you can spend a lot of time and get 12 strength bonus Ultor. This is what I meant by prestige, your own additional effort spent going that extra mile for absolute Best in Slot. Not as something that should matter to other players. I agree that ingots are a crap drop for regular accounts to get. Adding an NPC that lets you bypass the requirement to get them isn't fixing that, since regular accounts can buy them dirt cheap off the GE. It only realistically affects ironmen. I think a full rework of the drop system would be a much better idea that could benefit both regular accounts and ironmen. I don't think I even once mention why I think ingots were put into the drop table, because I never thought about it. I spent some time today thinking on it, and I think you're right - it most likely was a mechanism that would let Jagex separate the ring into multiple drops and with that tie a crafting action into it, thus both requiring skills (cool!) and severly limiting the "bottability" of the content. I think there is a better way to achieve these things than the 3 ingot system, and once again, I think a full rework would be more beneficial than an NPC that lets irons skip getting ingots. I don't think I'm uneducated about blood runes and irons at all. I realise almost every endgame PvMing iron was buying them from shops and that runecrafting them was much slower. That being said, blood runes have a limited stock and I want to once again say that the byproduct of not being able to trade with other players is not having access to all the supplies you want at all times, that's what the GE does. If an iron player wants to have a big supply of something, they should spend time getting it, be it hopping or runecrafting. I don't like the reasoning that hopping is the fastest, therefore it IS the method, and it's boring and nobody likes it, then it should be changed and players should be able to buy as many bloods as they want. Especially nowadays with GotR robes, true blood altar and even Blood Essences from ToA and Nex, I think there are many alternative ways of obtaining blood runes. Here's a different example that maybe will show my point from a different perspective - Dragon Arrows are scarce and iron players are saving them for the most crucial moments like speed CAs. Should there be a shop that sells dragon arrows? Or is it okay that there are some resources that are saved on ironmen for "special occasions" and there are alternatives to use day to day? Edit: I'll also pin your comment, good discussion
@@Presearing Yeah, I appreciate your response. 1. Sure, but what is really the "additional effort" once someone has farmed a boss to get every single drop but they're short of random arbitrary ingots that got stuck on the drop table to make the rings. This entire idea is flawed in my opinion because people get spooned drops all the time. Someone could take 10k corp KC to drop an ely but some other iron goes and kills 10 and drops it instantly. It's more just the fun of getting the items vs the time it takes to get them at least for me. I hate this concept of dropping arbitrary blocker items to make other items off the same bosses drop table I think it's trash and devalues the hype of actually dropping the vestige if you know you only have like 1/3 ingots. We can agree to disagree on this point, it just came across like you view this game mode as some extra achievement to obtain things on. 2 & 3. Yeah, we can both agree on this idc personally what path they take to address ingots (having a vendor to do it vs moving them onto more tables) I think the entire design of it was trash from the start. 4. I think it's just a fundamental difference in what we think ironman mode is really about. I don't view ironman as some sort of time investment simulator and anything to make things take less time = bad. You are acting like buying scar essence mine essence completely removes any sort of grinding to get the runes. It is just as expensive as buying it from the stores, it's not like any ironman is just walking into that place and buying 50k blood runes. You need to literally farm like a 20-30m cash stack to have any meaningful amount of essence. Literally the only thing this system does is reduce the time spent doing BAD gameplay (and I think this is important to note) of buying runes from a shop world hopping. I don't think there is any value or purpose to make someone spend 5-10 hours world hopping and buying stock out of a shop vs letting them still spend the same amount of gold but do 1-2 hours of runecrafting instead. Jagex simply added a solution for the top 1% of ironman players because they realized that world hopping to buy from shop vendors is a trash gameplay loop and not fun. 5. On your point about dragon arrows, it's not a fair comparison at all. Bloodrunes already were purchasable from a shop, they weren't only obtainable from a very restricted method (like crafting them). This scar mine was a solution to a problem created form an already existing source of getting blood runes being shops and it being an extremely bad gameplay loop. Dragon arrows currently don't have any easy way to obtain them or any super tedious way of buying them from already existing shops. If there was some way you could spam click buy 1 dragon arrow from a NPC dialogue I would say go ahead and put them in shops. I'm not against them adding easier ways to get them, because frankly I don't play ironman to really care about hoarding resources. I play ironman for the progression it forces me to do and the game mechanics I have to interact with. I frankly don't care if things get made easier for grinds i'm already done because most of the times the things they fix are things i agree with. I think me and you just have fundamentally different reasons why we play and enjoy ironman. I play runescape and ironman solely to enjoy PVM and the progression that system offers, I will admit I don't care about skilling or have fun really doing any of it, it's just a means to an end for me. I think bloodrune crafting is painfully slow and is not a viable way to get runes if you want to login on runescape and actively play during your session.
TL;DR - "Every Ironman update that caters to me and my playstyle is good, every other update that caters to ironman mode is bad and ruins the game mode for me because I'm a joyless virgin" - Presearing
Your standpoint on this is pretty funny, as soon as you mention something that is useful to you you'll defend it. Just like the people that have a scythe and want to make use of it. This makes it seem like if you had a scythe you'd be one of the people asking for this aswell...
Hey, thank you for the comment. I anticipated a point like this when I brought up the looting bag example. For the record, I do think that an item that is basically required to play a certain gamemode vs an endgame weapon with weaker alternatives are two different things, there is no smaller bag UIMs can use. But to the point: I defended my point of wanting a non-pvp related way of getting the item, and then Jagex offered an alternative in the form of buying the bag for slayer points, and I no longer ask for an even easier version. I never bought the bag for slayer points, so it's not useful to me, it's not a matter of personal gain. In the same vein I don't think I would want unlimited buyable blood runes if I had a scythe simply because there are alternatives, even if slower.
@@Presearing You do make good points in that the gamemode is inherently about getting your own things and i also dont agree about the ingot change with the thought that they shouldnt have been a thing in the first place. Ill preface my opinion with the fact that i have the soulreaper, scythe and the tumeken shadow so im in the group of people that would benefit/ be affected by these changes. I havent made use of the scar essence mine, since i just opt to buy all my runes because its much faster when you're in a pinch. Usually using these weapons you make the money back in alchs so its never a concern for me in that way. I would hate it if i had to go runecraft for days to be able to use my scythe or shadow for just a little bit as a luxury item. There's definitely different play styles as an ironman and i think that also effects our perspectives on these qol updates.
Ingots need to be changed, i normally dont like iron focused updates but specifically making the Vestige have anti-dry mechanics then not adding those same mechanics to ingots just make no sense. i dont like the option to just buy with gp though
Good to see another GW1 and Osrs player! I play main restricted accounts, but I have a lot of friends who are ironmen. I notice that a lot of my friends have picked up ironman game modes after playing modes like "Leagues" which do the ironman style on super easyscape to the max, and then move towards creating their own ironman because they enjoyed the experience on leagues, rather than the original intended mentality of "I like OSRS, I want to play it on a higher difficulty." This is fine, as it has people enjoy and experience the game, but you've got a lot of people who are playing the game mode who wanted the experience of getting drops for themselves without the higher difficulty attatched to it. I also see people recommending other players who are starting the game to make their first character an ironman. Both of these things are fine, but also the prevalence of it definitely has caused the mode to get updates catered towards making a harder difficulty mode easier. Some of the updates have filled much needed gaps that the maingame didn't require. Doing entry level raids without a powered staff is incredibly frustrating and the two options of obtaining a powered staff previously that didn't come from a raid were getting 87 slayer or a ridiculously rare wilderness drop. For an ironman wanting to run some low level TOA's to get their rune pouch upgrade or hopefully spoon something, it's a reasonable item that doesn't have you charging at the boss when you take a sip of a saradomin brew/raid brew. Encouraging ironmen friends to get that enabled them to have a more positive raiding experience compared to using the iban's staff. However, I've noticed with a lot of wilderness updates or the proposed chromium ingots, there are many npcs that will let a person bypass skilling requirements in exchange for gp. It feels a bit weird to me for very good items that have a lot of use (voidwaker, dfs, and some others) that a person playing a "hard mode" is able to bypass the skilling requirements with gp. However, on the flipside, a player using tons of gp hopping worlds repeatedly at shops buying blood runes vs using a skilling method with gp to acquire more blood runes does not seem to be as near of a negative change. I don't see an ironman with a scythe and think "Hah, such easyscape, he used to have to world hop 200 times to charge his scythe and now he pays a similar amount of gp as before but doesn't have to world hop." I can't say it's the best way to solve the issue, but it seems minor compared to all of the suggestions I see about "drop rate protection". For solutions, I would think if jagex released an official bronze-man mode about 2-3 years ago instead of making the ironman mode ridiculously easier would have solved a lot of problems we have now. However, it is in the nature of an mmo making grinds slightly easier over time, and to try to stop that is just not realistic. Regardless, I'm going to have fun trying to get boss completions, pets, and combat achivements on my 78 cb account that even with full access to the grand exchange has a good amount of challenge.
The problem ultimately is that they poorly designed the drops - you have to go perfectly on rate for both ingots and the vestiges. You have to roll a vestige 3 times, then 3 more ingot rolls for a ring, thats a lot of rolls to get perfect RNG on and assuming it's the right order. They're really just correcting something that was a bad decision, poorly designed, and that change benefits the people who can't just buy their way out of that poor design.
DT 2 bosses are fine, as a uim i would love if the orbs and ingots were stackable but even now that they aren't i don't see a problem with it, i choose to play this way i deal with it. I don't see the point on making things easier with gp as u said, gp on a iron of any kind become useless at some points so its just giving the items for free, making it locked behind skills would make more sense
It's only a problem if Ironmen are the only ones that get a special way to obtain the item. If anyone can do it like that it's fine. Grinding stuff is one thing...but you also gotta find a balance.
I agree with you on the fact that I don't want Jagex to SOLELY cater to Ironmen. This means I don't want special ironman only updates, but that being said, Ironmen make up over 30% of the active OSRS community (if you remove bots) so they should always be kept in mind. That being said, I disagree with you on a few things you said in the video. At 7:50 you said "I don't think the game should change to cater to Ironmen and they should accept what the mode is". Now I agree with this, but some things are designed without Ironmen even being considered and those things IMO could be altered. For example, Corp wasn't ever intended to be killed solo (lowering the defence of a monster and teleporting away never should've been a visable method and if Ironman mode wasn't a thing, Jagex would've patched this sooner imo)... But it was the only way Ironmen could kill Corp so it was left in the game. I wouldn't be opposed to Corp changing to work in a way more similar to Nightmare, Nex or other bosses. Now back to the 2 main topics in the video. Chromium ingots: Firstly I agree that buying them feels un-ironmen and I hate this design, I think it should be re-looked at and they should release them through other bosses or skilling methods like you mentioned in the video. BUT that being said, Chromium Ingots make 0 sense to me SOLELY because of the mechanic for the Vestige drops, they are unique in the way you need to roll them 3 times to get the drop.... Now this mechanic on it's own is something I absolutely love as it avoids people going INCREDIBLY dry, at the cost of some people getting INCREDIBLY lucky (a good mechanic imo). BUT what is the purpose of that mechanic on these rings if you require Ingots which don't have the same mechanic? It makes 0 sense (this mechanic should've been on stuff like the Enhanced Weapon Seed or Nightmare uniques instead imo). Scar Essence Mine: You say it defeats the purpose of the Ironman game mode because it's basically a GE for Runes. My counter argument is that it's not a GE and its more like NPC Shops at a larger scale (more expensive but vast quality). I would be 10000 million percent against the Scar Essence Mine if it wasn't possible to buy runes (for cheaper) from stores.... Ironman Mode is meant to be solo, you SHOULDN'T be hindered by having to "compete" with other Ironmen for shop stock, so Ironmen should just be able to buy them from the shop instead of the Scar Essence Mine imo. So the Scar Essence Mine is just a more expensive shop that Jagex created so they didn't have to change the code of shops to make them separate for every person (for ironmen since they shouldn't ever be able to buy from other peoples shops). As for Mega Scales: I 100% agree with you that it shouldn't be a thing and Jagex should've nipped it in the bud the INSTANT they caught wind of it. A big mistake on Jagex's part and now I feel like its a bit too far-gone and it would be weirdly unfair to disallow it now that so many people have abused it. But even then, I wouldn't mind if it was removed now (it also creates such a toxic black-market for megascales which are sold for GP and Real life money).
Hey, thank you for your comment. I agree that there are situations where ironman specific updates can be a good thing, and in general I think it's best to discuss these on a case-by-case basis. For example, I don't know much about Corp, so maybe it would ultimately be best to change it, I just don't know. Some other commenter pointed out that the purpose of chromium ingots is most likely to restrict their flow to the market, and I like that it both ties skills into it (high crafting, magic requirements) and also is a good deterrent against botting this content. That being said, I think there are better ways of achieving both of these, and a general rework would be both better for regular accouns and ironmen. The main thing I dont like is the bandaid fix of having an NPC that lets you skip it with GP. Yeah, GE for runes, NPC shop with unlimited quantity, effectively the same thing. Ironmen aren't playing a solo game, they are standing alone in a multiplayer game. This makes it so that sometimes there is competition for resources, and it's good that there are alternatives. I don't think that just because buying from shops was fastest but boring and annoying Jagex should release a better shop. I think that what they've done by adding GotR robes, true blood altar, even the blood essences from ToA and Nex are all good ways of helping with this. And at the end of the day, having to work for your supplies is one of the essential pillars of ironman in my opinion. And it seems like we completely agree on the megascales so cheers :)
Bro it's aids the amount of Irons I see that do about 1-1.5k kc to get the vestiges and have like 6-8/12 ingots is ridiculous. Something needs to change.
I haven't gone for the rings yet, but I think within reason, like I don't want another 1/5k dragon warhammer drop to be added to the game. Im fine with it there now, but making another would suck ass. Gatekeeping content behind insanely long grinds for future content is what i would be against. I dont want them going back and changing grinds though that would piss me off for doing it then reducing it.
have played my ironman since the gamemode came out and i agree a lot with what you said im personally getting sick of my limited account getting coddled constantly for the casual players
Why not have chormium ore drop and iron men have to level their smithing if they want an “easier” way to gather these ingots. These ores shouldn’t be farmable, just a nice “holy shit” drop
If you actually cared about anything related to "earning" in osrs you would have quit years ago. Except you happily slid down the slippery slope, having fun, until you got burned by the friction, only to cry woe is me. Gaming is dead friend, the plebeians are too numerous.
A uim crying because he had to no life and grind before qol was implemented. The game is aging and you need to as well. Take a step outside and take a deep breath it will all be okay, not everyone has 20 hours/day to play this 10+ yr old game.
Chromium ingots were horribly implemented to begin with. With how their drops are designed relative to the vestiges for mains they were always going to be a disappointing worthless drop for mains. There will always be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands more ingots in the game than vestiges to use them. They are merely a second RNG check for ironmen(which is horrible game design). They either shouldn't have existed at all, or should've been dropped alongside the invisible vestige rolls. As for your dislike for the proposed NPC I agree that it would make more sense to have an alternative grind or a skilling challenge of some sort instead of just paying gold. But at the end of the day I don't care because I know Chromium Ingots were horribly implemented. Scar Essence Mine is a good thing because shop scape should not be the meta for using your late game items, and anything that requires ironmen to compete over shops is bad design as well. I can see why you might not like wraths being buyable... but all other runes are buyable as well by Ironmen. They have been since its inception. I don't think it's worth getting worked up over.
The problem is, scythe on irons is mostly used for POST 99 xp. The resource, blood runes, requires POST 99 rc xp to upkeep. But people whined so hard instead of just playing iron "cant expect me to rc for weeks just so i can use my scythe" fml you chose to use it, go get the resources. Shops were not that bad, rc isnt that bad. I'm 2b xp iron that doesnt whine, rank 15 rc 200m xp, and now i can actually just play the game, no whining about runes. Cause this is what the mode is. Fml
Should have put "im 2b xp iron" at the start so people can immediately throw your opinion away. You represent like 0.01% of irons that have all the time in the world to play, and enjoy doing 1000s of hours of the same content that's boring to most people.
ironman here, i think youre 100% right. I play the gamemode for the prestige in getting rare items, and I find it pretty ridiculous to being so opposed to killing a boss for an uncommon drop a few more times. Getting the drop on an iron should feel good, no?
Completely agree. The "QoL" updates for the past couple of years has been mental. The scar essence mine feels like private server content and it blows my mind that it passed the poll, and I say that as a scy/sang/shadow owner. On the contrary, many of these newer updates are disgustingly long to complete when compared to older non-raid content, so charges/supplies can be a struggle to maintain. That is, in my opinion, a part of the game mode.
its funny how MOST of the game was designed around ironman gameplay, but then when an update for irons comes out you cry. imo Scythe and shadow were designed with main accounts in mind and needed to be balanced out for irons who simply couldnt buy the charges off ge or didnt want to shopscape.
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I think your standpoint is kind of funny because of how you think anyone views doing things on an ironman as "prestigious" ironman game mode is not any harder compared to a main for combat. It's literally just more time. There is no prestige in getting something on an iron and most mains dont care you're an iron in 99% of scenarios it's entirely a self imposed restriction. I'm an iron in pretty late game at this point, and i dont view myself as better compared to a main account or having more prestige because I had to kill 3k of a boss to get an item. I've also completed the soulreaper axe on an iron and have done 2k vard KC , so im not speaking out of touch here.
I think a massive issue with ingots isn't even just irons not being able to get them to complete the rings, it's also just a crap drop that most people who farm as trade accounts hate them as well. I currently have a surplus of the ingots so this isn't even me being salty about not getting enough myself.
The funniest part about all of this is why you think ingots were even put onto the drop tables. This had nothing to even do originally with restricting ironmen on making them (if I had to guess), these are a by-product of Jagex wanting to make accounts farming the bosses have a crafting level before selling them to restrict the flow of them onto the market. Now that there is a massive surplus of ingots in trade they're a useless drop. I personally don't see any logical reason to have ingots even be items, they only effect ironmen at this point.
Your blood rune example is so uneducated and just spits in the face of peoples time. No endgame ironman was crafting their blood runes to get them anyway, almost every ironman was buying their blood runes from the rune shops. Crafting blood runes to get blood runes to use actively is only something people who dont want to play the game and just want to AFK do. It's incredibly slow & not worth it compared to buying runes from the shop. All the Scar essence mine did was save people their lives/time by making you pay shop prices or more to get runes faster. It just saves people from the dogwater gameplay of world hopping to buy runes from the shops. There is no skill in world hopping for 3 hours to buy blood runes vs doing a shortcut to get that amount in 30-40 minutes of runecrafting it just saves you time.
Very well put. Couldnt have said it better myself.
Hey, thank you for your comment. I'll answer to each paragraph separately since I want to make sure to address all of your points.
I don't view "prestige" in this context as a flex or something to flaunt, just the fact that by the very nature of ironman mode you have to get every item yourself, so I don't think there's anything wrong with keepings these rings rare on an iron, especially since there are viable alternatives. You can spend a moderate amount of time and get +8 strength bonus Berserker imbued, or you can spend a lot of time and get 12 strength bonus Ultor. This is what I meant by prestige, your own additional effort spent going that extra mile for absolute Best in Slot. Not as something that should matter to other players.
I agree that ingots are a crap drop for regular accounts to get. Adding an NPC that lets you bypass the requirement to get them isn't fixing that, since regular accounts can buy them dirt cheap off the GE. It only realistically affects ironmen. I think a full rework of the drop system would be a much better idea that could benefit both regular accounts and ironmen.
I don't think I even once mention why I think ingots were put into the drop table, because I never thought about it. I spent some time today thinking on it, and I think you're right - it most likely was a mechanism that would let Jagex separate the ring into multiple drops and with that tie a crafting action into it, thus both requiring skills (cool!) and severly limiting the "bottability" of the content. I think there is a better way to achieve these things than the 3 ingot system, and once again, I think a full rework would be more beneficial than an NPC that lets irons skip getting ingots.
I don't think I'm uneducated about blood runes and irons at all. I realise almost every endgame PvMing iron was buying them from shops and that runecrafting them was much slower. That being said, blood runes have a limited stock and I want to once again say that the byproduct of not being able to trade with other players is not having access to all the supplies you want at all times, that's what the GE does. If an iron player wants to have a big supply of something, they should spend time getting it, be it hopping or runecrafting.
I don't like the reasoning that hopping is the fastest, therefore it IS the method, and it's boring and nobody likes it, then it should be changed and players should be able to buy as many bloods as they want. Especially nowadays with GotR robes, true blood altar and even Blood Essences from ToA and Nex, I think there are many alternative ways of obtaining blood runes. Here's a different example that maybe will show my point from a different perspective
- Dragon Arrows are scarce and iron players are saving them for the most crucial moments like speed CAs. Should there be a shop that sells dragon arrows? Or is it okay that there are some resources that are saved on ironmen for "special occasions" and there are alternatives to use day to day?
Edit: I'll also pin your comment, good discussion
@@Presearing Yeah, I appreciate your response.
1. Sure, but what is really the "additional effort" once someone has farmed a boss to get every single drop but they're short of random arbitrary ingots that got stuck on the drop table to make the rings. This entire idea is flawed in my opinion because people get spooned drops all the time. Someone could take 10k corp KC to drop an ely but some other iron goes and kills 10 and drops it instantly. It's more just the fun of getting the items vs the time it takes to get them at least for me. I hate this concept of dropping arbitrary blocker items to make other items off the same bosses drop table I think it's trash and devalues the hype of actually dropping the vestige if you know you only have like 1/3 ingots. We can agree to disagree on this point, it just came across like you view this game mode as some extra achievement to obtain things on.
2 & 3. Yeah, we can both agree on this idc personally what path they take to address ingots (having a vendor to do it vs moving them onto more tables) I think the entire design of it was trash from the start.
4. I think it's just a fundamental difference in what we think ironman mode is really about. I don't view ironman as some sort of time investment simulator and anything to make things take less time = bad. You are acting like buying scar essence mine essence completely removes any sort of grinding to get the runes. It is just as expensive as buying it from the stores, it's not like any ironman is just walking into that place and buying 50k blood runes. You need to literally farm like a 20-30m cash stack to have any meaningful amount of essence. Literally the only thing this system does is reduce the time spent doing BAD gameplay (and I think this is important to note) of buying runes from a shop world hopping. I don't think there is any value or purpose to make someone spend 5-10 hours world hopping and buying stock out of a shop vs letting them still spend the same amount of gold but do 1-2 hours of runecrafting instead. Jagex simply added a solution for the top 1% of ironman players because they realized that world hopping to buy from shop vendors is a trash gameplay loop and not fun.
5. On your point about dragon arrows, it's not a fair comparison at all. Bloodrunes already were purchasable from a shop, they weren't only obtainable from a very restricted method (like crafting them). This scar mine was a solution to a problem created form an already existing source of getting blood runes being shops and it being an extremely bad gameplay loop. Dragon arrows currently don't have any easy way to obtain them or any super tedious way of buying them from already existing shops. If there was some way you could spam click buy 1 dragon arrow from a NPC dialogue I would say go ahead and put them in shops. I'm not against them adding easier ways to get them, because frankly I don't play ironman to really care about hoarding resources. I play ironman for the progression it forces me to do and the game mechanics I have to interact with. I frankly don't care if things get made easier for grinds i'm already done because most of the times the things they fix are things i agree with.
I think me and you just have fundamentally different reasons why we play and enjoy ironman. I play runescape and ironman solely to enjoy PVM and the progression that system offers, I will admit I don't care about skilling or have fun really doing any of it, it's just a means to an end for me. I think bloodrune crafting is painfully slow and is not a viable way to get runes if you want to login on runescape and actively play during your session.
TL;DR - "Every Ironman update that caters to me and my playstyle is good, every other update that caters to ironman mode is bad and ruins the game mode for me because I'm a joyless virgin" - Presearing
good summary thanks, saved me 15 min
If you want the challenge, just don't buy the ingots. Farm them instead, lol. Even if you care about the flex factor collection log tells the tale.
You'll be alright bud
They should’ve just made it so you get an ingot when you roll a ring roll.
Your standpoint on this is pretty funny, as soon as you mention something that is useful to you you'll defend it. Just like the people that have a scythe and want to make use of it. This makes it seem like if you had a scythe you'd be one of the people asking for this aswell...
Hey, thank you for the comment. I anticipated a point like this when I brought up the looting bag example. For the record, I do think that an item that is basically required to play a certain gamemode vs an endgame weapon with weaker alternatives are two different things, there is no smaller bag UIMs can use.
But to the point: I defended my point of wanting a non-pvp related way of getting the item, and then Jagex offered an alternative in the form of buying the bag for slayer points, and I no longer ask for an even easier version. I never bought the bag for slayer points, so it's not useful to me, it's not a matter of personal gain. In the same vein I don't think I would want unlimited buyable blood runes if I had a scythe simply because there are alternatives, even if slower.
@@Presearing
You do make good points in that the gamemode is inherently about getting your own things and i also dont agree about the ingot change with the thought that they shouldnt have been a thing in the first place.
Ill preface my opinion with the fact that i have the soulreaper, scythe and the tumeken shadow so im in the group of people that would benefit/ be affected by these changes.
I havent made use of the scar essence mine, since i just opt to buy all my runes because its much faster when you're in a pinch. Usually using these weapons you make the money back in alchs so its never a concern for me in that way. I would hate it if i had to go runecraft for days to be able to use my scythe or shadow for just a little bit as a luxury item. There's definitely different play styles as an ironman and i think that also effects our perspectives on these qol updates.
this is like paying gp to finish a half key
Ingots need to be changed, i normally dont like iron focused updates but specifically making the Vestige have anti-dry mechanics then not adding those same mechanics to ingots just make no sense.
i dont like the option to just buy with gp though
it's because the game isn't designed around your gamemode
@@ook619 even mains have to buy ingots to make it just to sell it, makes no sense
Good to see another GW1 and Osrs player!
I play main restricted accounts, but I have a lot of friends who are ironmen. I notice that a lot of my friends have picked up ironman game modes after playing modes like "Leagues" which do the ironman style on super easyscape to the max, and then move towards creating their own ironman because they enjoyed the experience on leagues, rather than the original intended mentality of "I like OSRS, I want to play it on a higher difficulty." This is fine, as it has people enjoy and experience the game, but you've got a lot of people who are playing the game mode who wanted the experience of getting drops for themselves without the higher difficulty attatched to it. I also see people recommending other players who are starting the game to make their first character an ironman. Both of these things are fine, but also the prevalence of it definitely has caused the mode to get updates catered towards making a harder difficulty mode easier.
Some of the updates have filled much needed gaps that the maingame didn't require. Doing entry level raids without a powered staff is incredibly frustrating and the two options of obtaining a powered staff previously that didn't come from a raid were getting 87 slayer or a ridiculously rare wilderness drop. For an ironman wanting to run some low level TOA's to get their rune pouch upgrade or hopefully spoon something, it's a reasonable item that doesn't have you charging at the boss when you take a sip of a saradomin brew/raid brew. Encouraging ironmen friends to get that enabled them to have a more positive raiding experience compared to using the iban's staff.
However, I've noticed with a lot of wilderness updates or the proposed chromium ingots, there are many npcs that will let a person bypass skilling requirements in exchange for gp. It feels a bit weird to me for very good items that have a lot of use (voidwaker, dfs, and some others) that a person playing a "hard mode" is able to bypass the skilling requirements with gp. However, on the flipside, a player using tons of gp hopping worlds repeatedly at shops buying blood runes vs using a skilling method with gp to acquire more blood runes does not seem to be as near of a negative change. I don't see an ironman with a scythe and think "Hah, such easyscape, he used to have to world hop 200 times to charge his scythe and now he pays a similar amount of gp as before but doesn't have to world hop." I can't say it's the best way to solve the issue, but it seems minor compared to all of the suggestions I see about "drop rate protection".
For solutions, I would think if jagex released an official bronze-man mode about 2-3 years ago instead of making the ironman mode ridiculously easier would have solved a lot of problems we have now. However, it is in the nature of an mmo making grinds slightly easier over time, and to try to stop that is just not realistic. Regardless, I'm going to have fun trying to get boss completions, pets, and combat achivements on my 78 cb account that even with full access to the grand exchange has a good amount of challenge.
The problem ultimately is that they poorly designed the drops - you have to go perfectly on rate for both ingots and the vestiges.
You have to roll a vestige 3 times, then 3 more ingot rolls for a ring, thats a lot of rolls to get perfect RNG on and assuming it's the right order.
They're really just correcting something that was a bad decision, poorly designed, and that change benefits the people who can't just buy their way out of that poor design.
DT 2 bosses are fine, as a uim i would love if the orbs and ingots were stackable but even now that they aren't i don't see a problem with it, i choose to play this way i deal with it. I don't see the point on making things easier with gp as u said, gp on a iron of any kind become useless at some points so its just giving the items for free, making it locked behind skills would make more sense
If you don’t like it don’t do it dude, nobody’s forcing you to spend the money, you’re free to farm ingots as much as you want. L take
It's only a problem if Ironmen are the only ones that get a special way to obtain the item. If anyone can do it like that it's fine. Grinding stuff is one thing...but you also gotta find a balance.
I agree with you on the fact that I don't want Jagex to SOLELY cater to Ironmen. This means I don't want special ironman only updates, but that being said, Ironmen make up over 30% of the active OSRS community (if you remove bots) so they should always be kept in mind.
That being said, I disagree with you on a few things you said in the video. At 7:50 you said "I don't think the game should change to cater to Ironmen and they should accept what the mode is". Now I agree with this, but some things are designed without Ironmen even being considered and those things IMO could be altered. For example, Corp wasn't ever intended to be killed solo (lowering the defence of a monster and teleporting away never should've been a visable method and if Ironman mode wasn't a thing, Jagex would've patched this sooner imo)... But it was the only way Ironmen could kill Corp so it was left in the game. I wouldn't be opposed to Corp changing to work in a way more similar to Nightmare, Nex or other bosses.
Now back to the 2 main topics in the video. Chromium ingots: Firstly I agree that buying them feels un-ironmen and I hate this design, I think it should be re-looked at and they should release them through other bosses or skilling methods like you mentioned in the video. BUT that being said, Chromium Ingots make 0 sense to me SOLELY because of the mechanic for the Vestige drops, they are unique in the way you need to roll them 3 times to get the drop.... Now this mechanic on it's own is something I absolutely love as it avoids people going INCREDIBLY dry, at the cost of some people getting INCREDIBLY lucky (a good mechanic imo). BUT what is the purpose of that mechanic on these rings if you require Ingots which don't have the same mechanic? It makes 0 sense (this mechanic should've been on stuff like the Enhanced Weapon Seed or Nightmare uniques instead imo).
Scar Essence Mine: You say it defeats the purpose of the Ironman game mode because it's basically a GE for Runes. My counter argument is that it's not a GE and its more like NPC Shops at a larger scale (more expensive but vast quality). I would be 10000 million percent against the Scar Essence Mine if it wasn't possible to buy runes (for cheaper) from stores.... Ironman Mode is meant to be solo, you SHOULDN'T be hindered by having to "compete" with other Ironmen for shop stock, so Ironmen should just be able to buy them from the shop instead of the Scar Essence Mine imo. So the Scar Essence Mine is just a more expensive shop that Jagex created so they didn't have to change the code of shops to make them separate for every person (for ironmen since they shouldn't ever be able to buy from other peoples shops).
As for Mega Scales: I 100% agree with you that it shouldn't be a thing and Jagex should've nipped it in the bud the INSTANT they caught wind of it. A big mistake on Jagex's part and now I feel like its a bit too far-gone and it would be weirdly unfair to disallow it now that so many people have abused it. But even then, I wouldn't mind if it was removed now (it also creates such a toxic black-market for megascales which are sold for GP and Real life money).
Hey, thank you for your comment. I agree that there are situations where ironman specific updates can be a good thing, and in general I think it's best to discuss these on a case-by-case basis. For example, I don't know much about Corp, so maybe it would ultimately be best to change it, I just don't know.
Some other commenter pointed out that the purpose of chromium ingots is most likely to restrict their flow to the market, and I like that it both ties skills into it (high crafting, magic requirements) and also is a good deterrent against botting this content. That being said, I think there are better ways of achieving both of these, and a general rework would be both better for regular accouns and ironmen. The main thing I dont like is the bandaid fix of having an NPC that lets you skip it with GP.
Yeah, GE for runes, NPC shop with unlimited quantity, effectively the same thing. Ironmen aren't playing a solo game, they are standing alone in a multiplayer game. This makes it so that sometimes there is competition for resources, and it's good that there are alternatives. I don't think that just because buying from shops was fastest but boring and annoying Jagex should release a better shop. I think that what they've done by adding GotR robes, true blood altar, even the blood essences from ToA and Nex are all good ways of helping with this. And at the end of the day, having to work for your supplies is one of the essential pillars of ironman in my opinion.
And it seems like we completely agree on the megascales so cheers :)
Bro it's aids the amount of Irons I see that do about 1-1.5k kc to get the vestiges and have like 6-8/12 ingots is ridiculous. Something needs to change.
I’m so glad jagex does not appear to be listening to people like you. Ironman is so much better now.
I haven't gone for the rings yet, but I think within reason, like I don't want another 1/5k dragon warhammer drop to be added to the game. Im fine with it there now, but making another would suck ass. Gatekeeping content behind insanely long grinds for future content is what i would be against. I dont want them going back and changing grinds though that would piss me off for doing it then reducing it.
have played my ironman since the gamemode came out and i agree a lot with what you said im personally getting sick of my limited account getting coddled constantly for the casual players
Should just have ingots drop in multiples to spare people the annoyance.
Why not have chormium ore drop and iron men have to level their smithing if they want an “easier” way to gather these ingots.
These ores shouldn’t be farmable, just a nice “holy shit” drop
What a horrible take, Reported.
99 mining would be a good idea
you've got my sub.
We also wish you’d stop making content but what changes
Bruh take a holiday
If you actually cared about anything related to "earning" in osrs you would have quit years ago. Except you happily slid down the slippery slope, having fun, until you got burned by the friction, only to cry woe is me.
Gaming is dead friend, the plebeians are too numerous.
youll be okay bro its not that deep
A uim crying because he had to no life and grind before qol was implemented. The game is aging and you need to as well. Take a step outside and take a deep breath it will all be okay, not everyone has 20 hours/day to play this 10+ yr old game.
No one likes ingots, including eco mains. Its a wasted roll on the rare table. You have no idea what youre talking about. Disliked
Chromium ingots were horribly implemented to begin with. With how their drops are designed relative to the vestiges for mains they were always going to be a disappointing worthless drop for mains. There will always be tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands more ingots in the game than vestiges to use them. They are merely a second RNG check for ironmen(which is horrible game design). They either shouldn't have existed at all, or should've been dropped alongside the invisible vestige rolls. As for your dislike for the proposed NPC I agree that it would make more sense to have an alternative grind or a skilling challenge of some sort instead of just paying gold. But at the end of the day I don't care because I know Chromium Ingots were horribly implemented.
Scar Essence Mine is a good thing because shop scape should not be the meta for using your late game items, and anything that requires ironmen to compete over shops is bad design as well. I can see why you might not like wraths being buyable... but all other runes are buyable as well by Ironmen. They have been since its inception. I don't think it's worth getting worked up over.
Maybe you can look up how you delete your channel, don't like the update? Don't use it, simple as that.
Honestly agree with everything you said. Im sitting on 22 ingots just from the leviathan 5796 kc
Nobody cares why your kc is.
@@wrenandrews3782 you must really care wasting your time responding have a nice day
@@tenofclubs2 nope.
The problem is, scythe on irons is mostly used for POST 99 xp. The resource, blood runes, requires POST 99 rc xp to upkeep. But people whined so hard instead of just playing iron "cant expect me to rc for weeks just so i can use my scythe" fml you chose to use it, go get the resources. Shops were not that bad, rc isnt that bad. I'm 2b xp iron that doesnt whine, rank 15 rc 200m xp, and now i can actually just play the game, no whining about runes. Cause this is what the mode is. Fml
Should have put "im 2b xp iron" at the start so people can immediately throw your opinion away. You represent like 0.01% of irons that have all the time in the world to play, and enjoy doing 1000s of hours of the same content that's boring to most people.
@@frostyfrost8262de iron then
ironman here, i think youre 100% right. I play the gamemode for the prestige in getting rare items, and I find it pretty ridiculous to being so opposed to killing a boss for an uncommon drop a few more times. Getting the drop on an iron should feel good, no?
Grand exchange with extra steps
Completely agree. The "QoL" updates for the past couple of years has been mental. The scar essence mine feels like private server content and it blows my mind that it passed the poll, and I say that as a scy/sang/shadow owner.
On the contrary, many of these newer updates are disgustingly long to complete when compared to older non-raid content, so charges/supplies can be a struggle to maintain. That is, in my opinion, a part of the game mode.
Cringe
Brain dead take
its funny how MOST of the game was designed around ironman gameplay, but then when an update for irons comes out you cry. imo Scythe and shadow were designed with main accounts in mind and needed to be balanced out for irons who simply couldnt buy the charges off ge or didnt want to shopscape.
The game should only be designed with mains in mind