Is Tudor Still The Best At Dive Watches Under $5000 in 2022?: Black Bay 58, Pelagos & Submariner
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- Опубликовано: 5 окт 2024
- Following my recent review of the most important releases of 2021, a comment on the video raised a really great question: Is Tudor still the best Swiss made automatic diver under $5000 in 2022? The Fortis Marinemaster, with essentially the same movement as the Tudor, costs more. So why do I consider it a good value? What are the differences between Tudor and Fortis? What affects value when it comes to watches of this pedigree? How has the market changed with the ever-rising prices of its bigger brother brand Rolex, and stiffer competition from Omega and their Seamasters, as well as competition from brands like Fortis, though smaller, but with just as much heritage? Does this threaten Tudor's reign and dominance in this price range? Join me as I borrow a contemporary Tudor Pelagos and a Black Bay 58 in blue, and compare them with my own vintage Tudor Submariner (79090) to find out the answer to all these questions and more, in this Tudor-rific special episode.
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Your clever switching of the BB58 for Bond's four digit Sub in the Goldfinger opening says it all. The Tudor feels very much like a proper Bond watch - a robust, extremely high quality, aesthetically pleasing and stylish tool watch. Every time I strap on my BB58, I can see and feel the DNA and provenance it has acquired from its ancestors in the Rolex and Tudor family. It is a brilliant watch.
They are a grail for me
Tudor watches aren't robust and definitely not extremely hight quality. They are very nice looking watches these days with great marketing and fair prices. Nothing more.
Wish Tudor would bring back the Submariner at the price that it is really worth: under 4k
Me too, but they probably couldn't cope with the demand. Tudor can't make enough BB chronos as it is, so can you imagine the demand for a 4k or 5k 40mm Tudor Submariner? It would be crazy and would probably bite hard into the increasing prices of the gray Market that Rolex are going for with their own Sub. Would be great though if they did a Tudor Sub..... I would sign up for one for sure.
I agree 👍 but they won't because it would disrupt the Black bay line and I doubt Tudor would do that but a Tudor Submariner with no faux rivets or faux lume would be greatly appreciated
It won't happen. Tudor trying to distance itself from Rolex.
They did bring it back in a new flavour. It’s called Black Bay 58.
I just bought a 41mm Tudor black bay last month. I'm having a hard time not wearing it every day. I just don't care for the style of Fortis watches but can still appreciate he history and value. Speaking of value. I bought my son a Squale 1545... He opted for a watch vs senior ring which absolutely filled me with joy. $540 from Longisland watches. What a great watch for the price. I've owned a few Steinharts and a lorier and I have to say... Love Squlae. I see one in my future.
Hard not to like the Squale 1545. Bought the Maxi and broke down and bought the Militaire 3 months later. You will not regret.
Thanks for the video my good chap. It’s refreshing not to be told what’s good or not, what to buy or not to buy, but rather, to be educated so as to make an informed decision.
And even more, to be inspired to continue the learning and keep diving down that rabbit hole.
Good stuff sir.
After watching that intro, I believe Tudor would be a great new bond watch. The black bay has the Bond vibe to it, especially with a nato strap.
Huge bond fan and I had to do a double take. Clever move TGV, great bud as always!
Perpetually Rolex Jr., I highly doubt Barbara Broccoli would ever allow the Bond franchise to awarded to Turdor
I think in these times of economic hardship a citizen NY-0040 would make a great bond watch
I think the new bond needs to dress a little more modern and like some of the craig outfits more function over style I would think in more business casual and in that scenario Hamilton, longiness and tissot could be a good bond watch, are from the same group of omega and can sell a lot of watches to the middle class.
@@ANM149 I agree more raid gear and long arms I.E assault rifles. Though Craig had changed bonds dress. Think what was worn in the first part of Casino Royale
There's definitely value in having something different that makes you smile bc in the end watches are worn in real life and not on paper! I have my beloved Pelagos, a BB58 Blue and a BB58 925 and while the BB58 blue might be the best watch for me on paper (clean aesthetic / incredible proportions), its the one thats going to be sold most likely! So i guess it depends on the individual whether or not the history and great/unique design of the fortis is worth the price vs a tudor.
Of course, the Pelagos and 925 are amazing beyond the stats on paper, but having an accurate in house movement with a 70 hour power reserve adds even more to their respective value propositions. Of course I might be a bit biased lol
Mum get the camera! I made it into a TGV vid!!!!! ;)
🙌🙌🙌🙌
Thank you again my friend for the contribution.
Best regards,
TGV
@@theurbangentry posted before I watched the video. Enjoyed the extra look into the category. Just wanna raise one point (ish).
You’re absolutely right, an end user may not have the experience to truly talk about how much a watch costs to make and how much it should cost. But the reality it’s not really for us to concern ourselves with entirely. Perception of value as always is individual. Most of us are end users of these watches, most of us are collectors of the finished articles. We can know a little about movements etc. But our value will be opinion based on all sorts of factors as you said in the video. But also from comparing a watch and it’s specs against the market and similar products.
I feel like it’s stretching just a touch to justify the cost difference here. Yes Tudor are the little brother of a bigger company. I can see that to some extent. As a watch buyer, it’s very hard to overlook that Tudor will guarantee your watch for 5 years and Fortis only guarantee it for 2. It’s the same movement, they need to offer more than “we make less and so you pay more and get less warranty too.” In order to compete IMO. I think the 5 warranty is a must if you’re going to charge more for the same movement personally.
Of course they are nice watches and people should buy what appeals to them. But comparing like for like it’s hard to justify personally even after the video. If you were recommending someone buy one of these as their only watch, I think you’d steer them to the Tudor and the longer warranty and nicely made, solid bracelets etc. Of course you did conclude the same thing effectively regarding Tudor under $5k.
Tbf though, I’m not really in the market for either right now.
Thanks for the vid!!!
I’ve had a couple black bays and a pelagos, but I keep coming back to Seiko
Tudor's doing a smashing job the last half decade or so, and they have not one, but 4 candidates for my big milestone birthday watch purchase this year. I thought the Pelagos would be too thick, but then I put it on the wrist (7-1/4"/18.4cm) and it wore beautifully. I don't know if it's the Helium escape valve, combined with the light weight of the Titanium, but it doesn't seem as thick as the specs. The BB GMT also wears a bit better than the regular BB41, due to a slight upturn on the bottom of the sides of the case vs. the regular BB. I worry the BB58 would be too small feeling (I have watches that size, but no divers that small). However, I've only gotten to try them on strap, not the bracelet. I've not seen the new Chrono in person, but the black dial looks great in photos. I think Tudor has more models that appeal to me than Rolex. I think I am just more of a tool watch/less blingy type of guy, though I would take an Explorer II in a heartbeat. I think the new Fortis MarineMaster 40mm is quite nice, and I hope that sells well for them.
Pound for pound the sports diver style Tudors are very hard to beat. My preference are the BB58s and the Pelagos.
Nope, sorry. Hey, I love both the BBs and the Pelagos, and own an ETA Tudor.BB Blue. But, they are not as good a watch as a Sinn EZM3. This is based on 7 years experience owning and servicing both.
@@stephenscharf6293 Leave it to the vote, 30 thumbs up says a lot, and remember I said hard to beat. There is more to a watch than just build quality. Monta make some very high quality pieces as well but still there is something missing as an example. I just had a quick look at a Sinn EZM3 and yes it looks appealing but not for me I will stick with my Tudors. I have two BB58s the black and the blue and recently sold my BB36 due to not wearing it enough, but the BB58s are keepers for sure unless Putin invades!
Both Sinn and Tudor are lovely
I'd pick the BB58 and the FXD
I like pretty much everything but I’ve always had a soft spot for Oris.
I own the Navy 58. I lapped up the hype, obsessed over it for months, patiently waited for my turn on the AD list, then eventually got one. Was it worth the wait, and the hype? Absolutely. Beautiful watch, still my favourite. Would I like a Pelagos as well? Yep. For me, as a Welshman, it’s having a Welsh name on my watch. I know that’s ridiculous. But old Hans did name the brand after the Tudor dynasty, and old Harry VII was a Welshman 🏴 So there, that’s my ludicrous reason for loving Tudor. 😃👍🏻
I’d love to see the new OO7 sport a Tudor.
Great subject and well thought out. The only true rival I could come up with would be the Oris Aquis 400 Caliber? Doesn’t have the history of Tudor but it’s a fine Swiss built timepiece that has its own style? Have a great week TGV and everyone
I bought the Breitling Superocean Heritage II because it sports the Tudor 5612 movement at only 2/3 the price. Yes, the Breitling can be had for around $3500.
These Breitling watches are really good and Breitling made a good decision to equip them with the Tudor movement. Pure joy for a decent price.
I have the green dial breitling superocean heritage II , great watch?
I appreciate your videos. It's a nice break from the realities of the world and news. Keep them coming :)
Last year I got my oris aquis Green Dial 43.5 mm and I Love it!!!
Happy to see this. Just finished watching a 2020 Guy Richie movie called the Gentleman. If you have not seen it yet TGV I highly recommend it 👍 Happy Sunday wishing you a prosperous week ahead
Great video! I believe though the Sinn u2(tegemented submarine steel)is way more rugged than the Tudor for the price. But I love both watches & both are in my top 3 favorites.
When I research a watch in which I have some interest I stop by UG Channel 1st and have purchased several watches based on your recommendation TGV. Thanks for what and how you impact our community!
Bringing a little joy to our Sunday nights. Great vid as always!!
Thank you so much, have a great week ahead!
Best regards,
TGV
I think Swatch is upgrading Longines to fill the old Omega price point. I’ll be on the lookout for a new killer Longines diver.
I always appreciate how informative your watch videos are TGV, I enjoy hearing about brand history and impact on culture. Thank you.
Thank you so much, it motives me endlessly to hear that.
Onwards and upwards!
Best regards,
TGV
Seiko prospect LX limited spring dive is much more accurate it’s around the same money and Seiko have been going from around the 1890s
Always great to come back to older videos. Keep up the high quality content TVG!
What is the intro song!
For me, Casio still makes the best dive watch. What with the Duro and everything lol. Have a good one Tristano.
Hum, I like the Black Bay on Sean Connery’s wrist. 😎
Nice evolution !... and video editing. 😉
Omega Seamaster is pretty compelling buy under 5k as well. I did see one on the wrist of a British Army Sniper who turned out to be a watch geek like myself when I was deployed. We geeked out over each others watchs (his a Pelagos mine a MkII Paradive.
He wore the Seamaster while deployed?
@@dspserpico No, the Tudor.
Condolences on the passing of the Queen, TGV. Now with Tudor, the Pelagos 39- a new favorite. All the best regards-
I am a very proud owner of a Fortis Chronograph Marinemaster and absolutely love the watch. Amazing history.
I have a blue Pelagos and I’m very much satisfied with it! You know, whenever I get to mention I have a watch collection (not very often..) most people immediately respond with “(do) you have a Rolex?”, and I reflexively answer “NO. And I won’t wear one”. And That recurring question is part of what drives me way away from Rolex. Right after me answering like that, the conversation just dies off… sometimes there are polite people who will ask one or two follow up questions.. and once in a Gazilion years it will actually interests someone and I’ll be like a child who found a friend that really likes the same favorite toy🤗.
I was waiting for 4k from TGV. Intro looks f'in rad.
Regardless of inflation and pricing, I still think for the regular consumer Glycine, Alpina, Longines and Tissot offer the best value for a swiss dive watch. Too bad few years back you could get an Oris dive watch second hand for under 1k.
Look at the GL0406.
For me the aesthetic of the Fortis range simply appeals more. I also greatly appreciate their strong history and independence. Another great documentary review 👏
Depends on how much you care about name. BB58 is a beautiful watch, my daily as a matter of fact, but I know I'm partly paying extra because it's Rolex's cousin. Otherwise, I can get a Seiko 62mas which is close enough. Love mine though.
The case and design of the 62mas is amazing and a great affordable alternative to the BB58….if Seiko could only put a better 4hz movement, it would be up there with Tudor for sure.
So many watches ...so little time.
Thank you for shedding light on lesser known but historically and presently relevant brands. While i own several timepieces it is only quite recently that i have taken an interest in the history quality craftsmanship and dare i say artistry of the wrist and pocket watch.
Your efforts and presentations are most appreciated and in part responsible for my awakening and for that i thank you !
Although I don't own one, I would argue the Pelagos is actually one of the best dive watches on the market period (specs wise). The problem is it has very limited appeal due to the styling. Although it is a true tool design, it is at price point where it won't be used as such and I think that's why it doesn't sell that well. This coupled with Tudor as brand is still not a well known name to the lay person IMHO which is actually who luxury watches are marketed towards.
I can't fault you there, specs alone, design, heritage, actually performance, it has it all.
Great comment, thank you,
Best regards,
TGV
@@theurbangentry did you read that, it’s a rubbish comment, full of bs and contradiction
Yes I did, thanks 👍
@@suncity22001 Hi buddy , what is BS and contracdiction ? I actually like the Pelagos which I thought made clear in my comment.
@@Johnny641 sorry I was just bein an asshole.
Thank you for this effort of synthesis and precision of thought. I have evolved and learned so much since I starting following your channel (and Mark from Long Island). Now I want to discover Fortis. In the end, I think this is what RUclips should be. Not a collection of 3min ''unboxing'' video. Thank you again. Untill the next episode! Milles mercis de Montréal! Chapeau!
I still cant decide, Blue or Black Pelagos? I've been pondering this for about 2 years now! Thanks for the Vid. You are a gentleman and a scholar.
Go black
Mon Amie , impeccable felicitations , the choice of the gentleman through the generations
Tudor is an excellent brand and extremely good value, in some cases the price of a Tudor makes it my preferred option over Rolex. As an owner of both brand Tudor pips Rolex mainly in the entry level Swiss luxury watches due to the premium and unwarranted waiting period. Nice productionTGB.
Blackbays with common as dirt ETA calibres are not great value, in fact they are Grossly overpriced compared to the plethora of other ETA powered watches.
@@r0ky_M BB aren't fitted with ETA'S.
@@kbarnbrook4993
Then you have something to learn about BB.
Great reviwe Last year i picked up a Tudor GMT and Last week i got the Special Harrods Edition witch is my Favorit watch !! nice greethings from Vienna
Thank you TGV for your great show! Stay healthy everybody. Greetings from Munich. Compliments for Intro and sound effects.
Thank you my friend, I hope you are well and safe too.
Best regards,
TGV
This is a great video, and long overdue, imho. Value is a huge issue for most of us and I appreciate your hitting it head on. “Knowing the price of everything and the value of nothing,” is indeed an impoverished way to view life, yet balanced considerations of price and value are important. Thank you.
“I expressed how very few RUclipsrs if any aside from me and Mark are truly qualified when it comes to talking about value in watches” that statement was so arrogant and lacking class, it’s obnoxious. You’re better than that, TGV.
Far from it, I can only speak honestly and respectfully, very few truly understand what it takes to make a watch from nothing, VERY few. Even less have ever done it. Sorry you misunderstood. Truth, standing up for it and trying to help inform others is not arrogance, nor is it lacking class IMO.
Thank you for watching,
Best regards,
TGV
No not arrogant at all, i think he just wanted to reassure people they were getting value when following one of his recommendations? That is how I understood it anyway..
Considering modern no-date Submariners are currently being scalped for 17,000 USD, I’d say 4 grand for a Black Bay 58 is quite a fair price to pay. Great video, TGV.
Sadly, AP, Patek, and Rolex sports watches are no longer luxury items. They are now commodities to be traded like stocks, and 95% of those that purchase them, could care less about horology.
@@TheRealMafoo indeed, they became speculative items.
Very interesting that you mention Moyer Jewelers. I live in Indianapolis and they are up on the north side in Carmel, IN.
Great video, i love my Blue Pelagos and my Black bay. The Pelagos has the modern tool’sh vibe. The black bay that classic style. Have you ever checked out Bremont watches? This would be a good one to have on the channel.
You're making great videos as always. I'll take issue with lumping Breitling in with entry level Swiss watches. A Breitling Colt, Avenger, or Superocean is every bit the watch a Tudor or Rolex Submariner is, in everyday use, robustness, accuracy, looks -- for prices around 1/5 as high. You could point out a few advantages in the movements, such as higher power reserve, full balance bridge, etc, but as I say, in everyday use... I have yet to know anyone who that has made a difference to.
Interesting point
As always - another brilliant vid mate ! Plus - enjoyed the “tangent” commentary - cheers !
Simply one of the coolest channels and that intro is just SO GOOD!
Thank you so much Michael, I deeply appreciate it. You made my day 🙏😎
Best regards,
TGV
Always a great day when TGV uploads. That Tudor sub of yours really is beautiful. You make a very compelling argument for the value of Fortis. The aesthetics just don't do it for me personally, or maybe I'm biased (he says while wearing a bb58). Thanks for the awesome content.
I think the Pelagos LHD would make a fabulous Bond watch
Thanks for pointing it out..I'm liking the Fortis Marine Master in slate Grey or Blue!
I think Tudor possibly offers the best value if you're in the market for a diver or a sports watch. However, I think you need to look elsewhere if you want more of a true everyday watch or something a little more dressy/formal.
Longines are actually a billion dollar brand (selling 1.5 million watches annually) and have some great watches...including their Heritage Diver, which has so much character and is often wrongly overlooked.
exactly , i own a heritage diver in bronze and get so many questions and compliments every time i wear it over my other pieces.
I do love the look of Longines, however each of the watches I would consider always has bizarre dimensions, either the lug to lug is crazy or they persist on in odd size lug widths like 21 or 19mm.
Even their HydroConquest line offers some really nice finishing considering it's under 2K(whether we're talking Canadian or US), and the best part is: you don't need to wait to buy one.
I love their conquest heritage dress watch. That it is a grail for me
Both brands are so far out of my current price range that some would think I have no interest in them but once again your method of exposition and beautiful arrangement enticed me to watch the whole video. I prefer the Tudors. I would be thrilled to find something from either brand sitting on my desk, though! The point is that there are real differences to consider, and now if the subject comes up I have something hopefully to contribute.
I'd personally hold out for an Omega Planet Ocean or Aqua Terra or something. Yeah, its around 1.5x the money but its 5x the movement, 5x more interesting and has 5x nicer design language. £3-4k is a lot of money, don't get me wrong! But you're really close to an Omega at that point and its worth the wait (speaking from experience because I tried on the BB36 and BB58 a bunch of times and over the time I was contemplating, I unintentionally ended up saving up the extra needed for an Omega and I never looked back).
Yeah but when you have Omega money you can say just save up some more and you can afford a Rolex. Where does it end? I worry about spending the price of a decent used car on a watch. It's very silly.
This is one of your best videos, TGV. I love how you took this topic of value head on. I think that value is definitely a perception, and as you said in the video, something someone else experiences with a Tudor (or other brand for that matter) might result in flipping the value around completely. Also for the record, I definitely think James Bond should have worn a Tudor. The British link is much more apparent with Tudor, in my opinion.
Hey Tristano,
I remember your old Tudor Prince Day-Date that you used to wear on the red strap. I'm not a huge fan on Gold toned watches, but for whatever reason, that combo got me hooked on the design. If I were to buy one, I'd probably go for a silver or two-toned dial.
Stay safe! O&U!
A lot of good options from Tudor and I’ve had a number come and go. The Pelagos is a great dive watch, the Black Bay GMT is great for a true GMT watch at the price, the under recognized P01 I think may be a sleeper value once discontinued and even the 1926 line is great from a value perspective.
Another great video TGV, honest and to the point. I love the way you strip it all back to the nuts and bolts. It’s not just about the name on that watch face.
You have opened my eyes to the Fortis of this world as well as Yema, I could go on.
A dive watch is always high on any collectors list and we take note and respect your reviews on the time pieces in your video’s. Great to have the comparisons. Toodle-pip
The blue squale with the light brown strap Over your right shoulder matches perfectly with the blue globe with the light brown Australia over your left shoulder. Put them close together and they make the perfect still life photo. Sorry that's just the photographer in me.
Tudor represents quite a serious power move by Rolex to be honest. It's like Bentley to Rolls Royce with the former being perceived as more sporty and youthful and also offered (historically) at lower cost. Of course, plenty of people have entered a dealership fully intending to buy a RR but drive the Bentley home. I expect that even if Rolex were available at MSRP in ADs, plenty of people who could afford Rolex would prefer a Tudor or two. In this world where Rolexes are made of unobtainium, Tudor serves a rather important purpose for the Wilsdorf Foundation. Frankly, it even elevates Rolex to a degree and creates a weird circumstance in which a lot of people who one could imagine cross-shopping Rolex and Omega wind up cross-shopping Omega and Tudor! Kinda brilliant strategy from the crown.
Great video T! Learning more about this hobby daily thanks to content like this!
The only channel I'll take a break from Ron Chernow's biography of Washington to watch.
I am very honored, thank you my friend!
Best regards,
TGV
I have one but my omega seamaster 300 gives me so much more fizz than the Tudor. I can’t get over the fact there’s no date and the engraved waves on the dial of the omega is so god damn beautiful!
I don't blame you, Omega is the greater brand, I will always have a special place in my hear for the Bond era 300, it was my first luxury watch and still gives me the thrills every time I see one. Wear it in good health my friend. Thank you Chris.
Best regards,
TGV
I actually am not a fan of the waves, and I kinda like the lack of date. the size makes the bb58 my fav. I have a planet ocean and the bb58, i havent worn the omega since i go the tudor
@@ltrev1979 fair enough! The slimness of the bb58 is appealing and think it would work nice under a shirt as well as casually
Hi TGV, that was a great review, I purchased a BB58 39mm heritage back in November, and its quite simply amazing, thanks for advice before pulling the trigger, kind regards Dave.
I'm not sure if Bond should have worn a Tudor, but it certainly would fit him now, if the producers ever decided to change watch brands.
Re: consistent styling clues - automakers are famous for this. A gradual evolution of style is usually followed versus shocking departures. The companies want customers (and non- customers) to know the brand. An example is the BMW double-kidney grill. The grill grows and shrinks - it gets fat and gets thin - but is always there! You know it's a Bimmer! Good vid. Keep at it!
Your analysis is on point as always. The first thought I have when I see is a Tudor is “couldn’t take that wait for the real sub huh?” take care of yourself my friend, don’t work too hard.
Hmm I have the real sub & my Bb 58 Blue arrives tomorrow can’t wait! 😜
@@1466Ash then I will admit I’m jealous!
What a great video brotha! That intro was epic 😂👏👏. No doubt that both brands resonate with watch enthusiast in different ways. I agree, it comes down to a connection you find. The power of Rolex no doubt has a HUGE! impact and influence when it comes to Tudor.
I'm really still in love with my Seiko SRPD09 Save the ocean that's about 3 years old now TGV. So I watched this video with interest. And went out today and bought an Omega Seamaster with the grey dial and blue strap. I know I've craved said watch for a while but if you can explain my decision today after watching this upload please do!
Heck I'm glad the hype is a little down now. I was able to finally pick up a blue heritage BB for about $3k and it's been on my wrist nonstop the past 2 weeks. I remember lusting after these a few years ago but finally had the funds to pull the trigger and couldn't be happier. It's such a quality tool watch for the money
Love Tudor dive watches - used to have the original Black Bay Bronze and Pelagos LHD. I sold it on when I expressed interest in the new Submariner 124060 with my AD in June 21. Then l got the call from my AD to pick up the Submariner after a 4 month wait. The Sub is a grail and is my most worn watch in my collection however I still missed a Tudor....
Then a few weeks later my AD called again to offer me the Pelagos FXD MN21. Well it was too good to turn down 😎
With that sound for the outro you had me staring at my dw-5600 for sometime figuring out why it would suddenly beep.
Thanks for this. I’ve only been in this game for a year but I’ve watched your channel from the start and you consistently champion the lesser known brands which often have wonderful time pieces that are worth considering.
I’m currently looking for a luxury tool watch and deciding between a black bay 58, speedmaster, IWC mark XVIII and because of you seriously considering a fortis F43 flieger. Please keep up the moral compass and work ethic
Don’t use the argument of under-representation in the market as a means of justifying the expense for Fortis (or any “underdog” brand for that matter). The costs are what they are (as you pointed out) resulting in the price tag being what it is; that does not necessarily translate to a product being a good value in the current market. I’m approaching the definition of value as performance as a function of cost, BTW. (“Performance”, in this consideration, could represent the capacity for accurate time keeping or serving as a vehicle for profit, for example.) This definition, admittedly, removes the vast majority of watch manufacturers from the value consideration.
However, once you introduce the concepts of pedigree, heritage, sentiment, or aesthetics, for example, you step away from making an argument based on value to one based on preference. And as we all have different preferences when it comes to non-essential luxuries, no truly common ground can be established and, thus, there can be no salient discussion of value with respect to preference. Hence the old saying, ‘there’s no accounting for taste’.
Ive had my Pelagos Black for a month now and like it more than the day I bought it, it took me 3 months to make the decision. I like it so much because it was free, I sold a Ceramic date Sub and a OP 36mm white dial and with the profit got the Pelagos and some significant change. The Pelagos to me is what the Sub used to be, a functional steel tool watch, that isn't steel.
Im lucky to have been able to buy a Sub (from an AD) and sell at grey market silly prices a year or so latter. The Pelagos won't appreciate like the Rolex but I can wear it without being concerned about unwanted attention.
I have a great respect for TGV’s love of independent brands. I have a similar appreciation for Oris. However for myself, this fortis has some issues. Personally the Pelagos is one of my favorite watches made today, and for the same price I don’t think the fortis comes close. When I think $5000 diver I think Omega and Tudor. Even the name I struggle with. When I think Marine Master I immediately think Seiko. And if I’m being honest I’d prefer a Seiko Marine Master over this Fortis Marine Master. However I appreciate TGV for being different and I appreciate fortis. After all if we all liked the same watches this would be a boring hobby. Omega has the power and money of Swatch Group and Tudor has Rolex. To create watches is a difficult and expensive process. Fortis maintaining production and innovation independently is a testament to their excellence.
I think the sizing of the marine master gives it a slight edge over the Pelagos. But the 50 bar Marine master is bigger than the Pelagos
@@oscarosullivan4513 true that the pelagos seems a bit large on paper but honestly one of my favorite features of the Pelagos is the way the bezel overhangs the case in truth I think it wears much smaller
Try one on if you haven’t gotten the chance.
Very well said
Handled a few Norqain watches today, I'd include them in this conversation for sure.
T, As you know I am great fan of Tudor watches. They represent decent quality for reasonable money. Very informative video as always.... Best as always. Matthew
Thank you for another informative and very enjoyable episode! Its my way of getting a little education on horological matters.
Wow. Great vid. I admit I have no experience with either brand, but I do understand the economies of scale argument regarding Fortis' higher price. Its the same advantage Seiko has over many competitors. Regardless, I kind of feel the Fortis is more my style than the Tudor with the waffle dial. Very handsome machine!
The ever-skyrocketing prices of watches are making me appreciate my Casio Duro even more. 😂
Tudor is my first love, I’m a dive watch fan and Tudor has perfected the dive watch in my opinion. Great product for the money by far and is respected by watch lovers and enthusiasts. I own the black bay heritage red bezel smiley dial and black bay heritage bronze with no regrets.
Thanks for introducing me to Moyer. I bought two watches from them. They are great! Ask for Scott P. He gives amazing service and fair pricing!
Thank you TGV for this nice video, like always! 🙏🥂
Good evening TGV, great topic, Divers are always more than welcome. And we have a great selection out there from reputable brands. Breitling Superocean Heritage, Longines Hydroconquqest, Sinn U1 or U50, the Seikos. But the Tudor Divers are very much unbeaten when it comes to style and heritage. The Glashütte Original SeaQ is over $5.000, but that Diver I is just perfect. Have a great weekend! Best regards!
Tudor is looking like next on my wish list but im one of these people that never rush in & buy. It took months for me to go for the longines legend diver .
Nice vid , Have to say i like every watch featured ,Personally the mk1 ETA Pelagos is a very good proposition
Cracking, spiffing, joyous and ALL of the positive adjectives!!
Grazie fratello!!!!
😎🥂
T.
What a great piece of content. 11/10
IMHO Pelagos is the best diver of the market of modern luxury watches: the balance of quality with its mvt, case, bracelet, lums, bezel.
Smith's (timefactors) and many other microbrands seem to be able to make watches which represent excellent value. To suggest that Fortis is priced higher because they're small sort of ignores this. They're a far bigger company than Smith's for example, but many times the price for similar specifications.
You totally missed the point of this video.
This is for gents with money to burn that can't get a Rolex.
So they go for Tudor but is it really a good investment since everyone is getting it.
So gents let's take a look at these other brands.
Also... Micro brands just buy finished components and assemble them in Singapore. They don't do any watchmaking and are worth zero.
But average folk see value in sapphire crystal and automatic writing on them and say see... I cheated the system... I got it all for $300.
Sure you did buddy. You fooled them all.
@@Stanjara I think you missed the point of my comment.
The point I was making is that to suggest Fortis is more expensive because they lack the distribution, sales and manufacturing network of bigger brands, ignores that microbrands are able to offer watches with equal or better spec's for less money, whilst also not having access to those giant networks.
Not having access to those networks is not an excuse for higher prices.
That's the only point I was making.
@@mrc7966 I totally get it, and I'm with you on this. These luxury brands are extremally overpriced and they can be because their watches are looked at as a next bitcoin.
5k for a stainless steel sub...dude what? And than they put it in a safe and wait for a year our two. Than its flipping time.
But... I reacted because you mentioned Smiths... which is basically a one guy show.
I know I know... but these microbrands... they don't have costs and overhead like a real manufacturing company.
So glad you covered this topic, and really enjoyed your perspective as always. It’s evident to me that you’re going to be adding the marine master sooner than later. I will be happy if you do, because for once I would have acquired a watch TGV covered before seeing a TGV video on it. Too many times it has been the other way around for me 😂 (Flighty, Sarbs, Sinn 104, the list goes on)
Tudor is now what rolex used to be 15 years ago with the 5 digit models like 16610 16710..
I totally agree with your opinions. People do need to understand the economies of scale regarding Tudor. They have a much bigger network behind them and can spread costs over a much greater volume of watches sold. I think one day there's a place in my collection for either a Tudor or a Fortis. I hope I haven't come across as entitled in the past when talking about Seiko. I do have Seikos, but can't see myself buying another as a lot of them I don't consider to be value for money. They deliberately put their prices up which no perceivable increase in quality. My last automatic watch purchase was the blue and white Islander Monster ISL-56. It's better made than a Seiko and I feel better supporting Marc.
This feels like a Fortis video more than a Tudor video.
Another stellar video that's well presented and researched. I love Tudor and would love to add one to my personal collection someday.
In some ways I don't really mind being retired because of several OTJ injuries, and rare genetic blood disease. I don't have to worry about impressing bosses or clients....I just wear what I like.
If I had the available funds, I really like the new pilots watch from IWC...really nice looking, and looks like it wears a little larger...which I like!
I was just getting into watches and I met up with a guy selling a Fortis on Craigslist. I was unfamiliar with Millimeters and the specs that he listed. When I met him in a parking lot I was wearing a 50mm chronograph watch on my wrist(🤦♂️dont ask). The guy I met opened up a napking and there it was. A tiny 34mm Fortis without a strap. I picked it up like picking up a small cookie and I felt the magic coming out of this little mechanical piece. It was a tiny magical machine. It was a Fortis Flieger with an orange seconds hand, black dial and a bead blasted case.
I loved Fortis ever since.
Wow, nice score that! Enjoy it. I think vintage Fortis like yours will one day be really lusted after, that brand is going places.
Thank you for sharing my friend.
Best regards,
TGV
I think there are two points here. On the one hand what is "best" for one person is not "best" for someone else. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is a purely personal choice. On the other hand, you summed it up beautifully when you said "The mastery of watchmaking has been directly incorporated into the proprietary made, chronometer level, movements we see in these contemporary Tudors". Thus on a technical level an argument can be made for what might be considered "best". To use an analogy, in Formula One Ferrari are "best" to many people because of their heritage and passion, but few would consider they have had the technically "best" car on the grid in recent years.
Personally I love my Black Bay, but did not just buy it blind - I tried several different watches from different manufacturers and ultimately made that "personal" choice.
Sorry for the wall of text but you raise an interesting dichotomy.