In the years of my truck rebuilding, I bought a toploader while buying other fender goodies. Input shaft was stuck in the mud outside the guys house. Output housing had rain dripping in for months. He laughed because I offered $30.00 and he took my money. I rebuilt the unit and it needed a good yoke sleeve and gaskets. Raced it on the street five years. Sold it unharmed for quite a large sum!!! Needed the cash for school. Best tyranny I've ever had. Hope the racer guy used it well. Clay track folks are nice people.
You never cease to amaze me at how you get these things done, I've been there. It's great motivation to get out to the garage and work on my 79 trans am 455 super t10, or maybe tremec, we will see. With 3.73 gears in the 10 bolt I'm leaning towards the tremec
I used a countershaft that I cut to the exact length of the countergear inside the countergear to hold the bearings while it was laying in the bottom of the case. I cut it long enough to hold the thrust washers as well. Then I used the regular countershaft to push the shortened one out the front of the case when ready to install. That made the assembly so much easier. Peace.
Wow, very cool video, thank you! I actually have a pile of those "junk" 4 speeds behind my garage, never thought I would use them for anything, but your video has really made me second guess that, thanks!
You done good mate...When fitting the cluster try this...Cut an old lay shaft down so that it is just the same length as the cluster...It will keep the greased bearings in place..Then when you have the mainshaft and gear pack assembled you can lay the box with the "Open" side down and the cluster will fall into place..Then push the new lay shaft through the cluster and no bearing loss...It works on all BW gearboxes...Cheers Perry.
ZIGgassedUP thats the best way, i just didnt want to cut anything to size, figured I'd get by with just grease.... and I did. you have a yourself a happy new year mate!
Good job! Having rebuilt a Toploader or two in my time, you make it look easy, a sure sign that you actually know what you're doing. Wishing you and your family a happy New Years! Looking forward to what you'll wrench on next year!
Charles Hunger i have a rough idea, and this wasnt the usual toploader so i had to do some grinding to make the wide ratio gears work, thanks though. you have yourself a good one!
if you want to see the guru of manual transmissions go watch GearBoxVideo. Hell he made the racing trans for the jaguars guy knows what he's doing. For auto's i recommend Hirem over at automatic transmissions. He's another one of those really good guys within his field.
I feel like you passed over the two most critical parts. The front shaft installation and that detent installation. I still learned a couple things outside of that though.
Great work as always mate,keeping it real. When you got millions of subs and getting paid lots to work in an expensive fully equipped shop you going to look back on these days and smile!
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage thing is, piece of cake to do things in a fully equipped and funded workshop. You only got to look at some of the monkeys main dealers employ! If you can do it on the ground with only hand tools and achieve results then the rest is easy!. Makes for great video content mate, plenty of video from amazing workshops out there but what's the point if you ain't got the same access? Makes people loose heart and get frustrated. Keeping it real inspires!
Hi from Brisbane, Australia. I need to change the three O-rings on the shifter input shafts sometime soon. 4 speed behind 351 Windsor. How far down do I have to strip the box? Cluster out or can I access them just by removing the fork shafts? Great vids, keep up the tinkering and filming. Cheers, Brett
Brett McDonald according to the instructions the shifters are the very last thing you mess with and the first things to go back in... but I'm not too sure. going to have to do mine as well soon.
Funny thing I am currently rebuilding the TOD overdrive version that was in my 1985 f150 and found out that the synchronizer for 4th was cracked in 4 pieces. It drove like that for I don't know how many years and it worked fine. It never popped out of gear which is weird.
@@InvincibleExtremes TOD (Topshift OverDrive) actually not SROD. It is the one with the shifter mechanism all in the top cover similar to a Borg Warner T-18 or New Process 435.
@@InvincibleExtremes Really! The 4 wheel drive versions of the TOD specifically not the SROD are really rare. But question. Does the shift nob have an O with a D in the middle for 4th (Means overdrive)
The part that shifts the shift fork not sure what it’s called but has a knob on it, did you use the large one for the bottom or did you use one of the two small ones for the bottom shift fork
Where do you get rebuild parts for the overdrive ones? Saw some on eBay but wasn’t sure. I rebuilt one with a different output shaft for my early bronco, but it won’t engage into 2nd or reverse. Not sure if I missed something or if the synchros needed replacing. Thanks
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage I rebuilt it a few years ago and just now getting to be able to use it. Can’t remember the pins now but you’re probably right. Second wants to grind and won’t engage so I’m guessing it’s a synchro, I’ll find out soon.
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage I took the driveshaft off and spun it. Then it went into the all the gears like it should, I’ll put it back on and see what happens.
So just to clesr things up. You took the internals from a real toploader and put them into one of the overdrive toploader cases? Is there any place where i can find written out instructions on how to to this?
Yes. Real toploader gears in this. Using the guts and case from this. Sorry theres not really a write up anywhere. I had to make it work... fairly simple actually besides the input shaft. It needs to be turned on a lathe to work.
doable... so the case, shifters and idle shaft are the exact same... if you get all new gears, and the kickass new 26 spline input... and have someone who can cut the input down to fit the bearing it will all go together. The mainshaft will need a little work but when you compare the gears side by side it becomes super obvious.
What has to be modded for a 4 speed main shaft to work in one of these? I've got a SMOD that I want to put in my '59 Galaxie that needs the long (27") main shaft. I wish I had a junk 4 speed main shaft to see if the O/D gears will fit. Thank you!
Is this video putting SROD internals in a close/wide ratio toploader? I have 2 toploaders and an SROD and if I could put the SROD gears in the toploader case for overdrive, that'd be cool. The aluminum SROD cases usually twist
Oh okay. If I could find a way to put SROD drivetrain in the stronger toploader case, I would haha. A Gear Vendors overdrive unit is 3000 bucks 😂 screw that. I'd rather spend 3000 dollars in gas without OD
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage yeah I do better with things written usually. I haven’t found any other information on people doing gear swaps in theses cases
Chris Rinehart that's because nobody else does them. The front and rear bearings are unique on this transmissions and limit what you can do without a machine shop. Feel free to message me on the channels facebook page and I'll scoot you any info I can think of and answer your questions.
Great video!I've never done a 4 speed.Looks similar to a motorcycle only bigger.The overdrive should make it much better for long trips.Your car might a bit too good for roadkill.I'm sure they'll let you in anyway.
fook me I'm sure you arent stupid. its just a matter of doing some reading and asking the right questions... and knowing what you want. and tons and tons of hard work
You are bro. I have a 79 ranchero with a 5.8. I only gotta replace the master cylinder, power steering pump, reservoir for brake fluid, alternator but cause I want too. Then I'm going to paint it black. But God I wanna do it all myself now. Idk if I'll be able to replace all that myself tho. But by God ima try. Thx. Keep the vids coming.
steve ballard I'm thinking of swapping the input shaft for a stronger 26 spline one... it doesn't need the bigger bearing retainer but is stronger than the 10 spline ford unit...
хорошее видео как всегда лайк, только болты фиксации вилок переключения передач посоветовалбы намазать резьбовым клеем, еще его называют фиксатором резьбы, от вибраций болты даже очень сильно затянутые могут выкручиваться.
i couldn't figure out what i was looking at for a second then realized it was camera girl's toes. great videos as always. did you modify it to be overdrive then? do you have the plans for this somewhere?
Jay Groom it was an overdrive and $125.... i modifyed it the other way... swapping some heavy duty toploader gears and input shaft into it. now it kicks ass
Jay Groom i did it at the inlaws and test drove it, then went home in the rental. I'll be back in january to take this whole rig to roadkill ziptie drags hopefully
Jay Groom 77 and 78 ford f150 trucks and vans. 3rd gear is an OD so you shift 1-2-4-OD(3rd) ... theres one on ebay right now. many people call them "imposter toploaders" ... honestly, the only thing wrong with them is the metalurgy of the cluster gear... it sucks and is brittle amd made in mexico.... i have two, both with shatterd cluster gears in two different spots. the other thing wrong with them is the huge jump from 2nd to 4th... 3rd being the overdrive. i wouldn't pay more than 200 bucks for one, and honestly they kick ass behind a small block... just not doing burnouts while pulling a trailer with a 461 stroker 68 firebird...
In the years of my truck rebuilding, I bought a toploader while buying other fender goodies. Input shaft was stuck in the mud outside the guys house. Output housing had rain dripping in for months. He laughed because I offered $30.00 and he took my money. I rebuilt the unit and it needed a good yoke sleeve and gaskets. Raced it on the street five years. Sold it unharmed for quite a large sum!!! Needed the cash for school. Best tyranny I've ever had. Hope the racer guy used it well. Clay track folks are nice people.
Toploader trans are the best.
You never cease to amaze me at how you get these things done, I've been there. It's great motivation to get out to the garage and work on my 79 trans am 455 super t10, or maybe tremec, we will see. With 3.73 gears in the 10 bolt I'm leaning towards the tremec
Thomas Cahill 3.73 aint bad with a tall enough tire... but a t56 would be cool
I used a countershaft that I cut to the exact length of the countergear inside the countergear to hold the bearings while it was laying in the bottom of the case. I cut it long enough to hold the thrust washers as well. Then I used the regular countershaft to push the shortened one out the front of the case when ready to install. That made the assembly so much easier. Peace.
Art Trombley smart, I should do that with my spare counter shaft
I rebuilt probably a hundred toploaders back in the 70's, experience is a great teacher.
Art Trombley sure is!
Wow, very cool video, thank you! I actually have a pile of those "junk" 4 speeds behind my garage, never thought I would use them for anything, but your video has really made me second guess that, thanks!
Citrus Drop I'll buy one if you got any to spare...
You done good mate...When fitting the cluster try this...Cut an old lay shaft down so that it is just the same length as the cluster...It will keep the greased bearings in place..Then when you have the mainshaft and gear pack assembled you can lay the box with the "Open" side down and the cluster will fall into place..Then push the new lay shaft through the cluster and no bearing loss...It works on all BW gearboxes...Cheers Perry.
ZIGgassedUP thats the best way, i just didnt want to cut anything to size, figured I'd get by with just grease.... and I did. you have a yourself a happy new year mate!
Good job! Having rebuilt a Toploader or two in my time, you make it look easy, a sure sign that you actually know what you're doing.
Wishing you and your family a happy New Years! Looking forward to what you'll wrench on next year!
Charles Hunger i have a rough idea, and this wasnt the usual toploader so i had to do some grinding to make the wide ratio gears work, thanks though. you have yourself a good one!
if you want to see the guru of manual transmissions go watch GearBoxVideo. Hell he made the racing trans for the jaguars guy knows what he's doing. For auto's i recommend Hirem over at automatic transmissions. He's another one of those really good guys within his field.
I feel like you passed over the two most critical parts. The front shaft installation and that detent installation. I still learned a couple things outside of that though.
Yeah, I'll try and do a better video next time. Thanks!
Great work as always mate,keeping it real. When you got millions of subs and getting paid lots to work in an expensive fully equipped shop you going to look back on these days and smile!
I'm not greedy, but some bread to go with my top ramen wouldn't hurt lol ;-) thanks for the kind words
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage thing is, piece of cake to do things in a fully equipped and funded workshop. You only got to look at some of the monkeys main dealers employ! If you can do it on the ground with only hand tools and achieve results then the rest is easy!. Makes for great video content mate, plenty of video from amazing workshops out there but what's the point if you ain't got the same access? Makes people loose heart and get frustrated. Keeping it real inspires!
"Keeping it real like none other."
ziiofswe we always do!
Any form of the toploader trans is great. Overdrive or not they are all very strong.
Yes they are. I love them
Idk about the ford srod...
@@jeremykeiser9621 The SROD was junk the SMOD or TOD were really good overdrive transmissions. The SMOD the most so because of it's cast iron case.
@@jeremykeiser9621 I mean my 85 f150 has a TOD overdrive trans and it drives pretty well with 3.55s and 31s.
@@legostar55 it sucks lol. I got an old srod with a mustang i bought i thought about doing the same thing the guy in the video did
The Pontiac sounds good. Happy New Year
James Hengl thanks! you too
Hi from Brisbane, Australia.
I need to change the three O-rings on the shifter input shafts sometime soon. 4 speed behind 351 Windsor.
How far down do I have to strip the box? Cluster out or can I access them just by removing the fork shafts?
Great vids, keep up the tinkering and filming.
Cheers, Brett
Brett McDonald according to the instructions the shifters are the very last thing you mess with and the first things to go back in... but I'm not too sure. going to have to do mine as well soon.
Funny thing I am currently rebuilding the TOD overdrive version that was in my 1985 f150 and found out that the synchronizer for 4th was cracked in 4 pieces. It drove like that for I don't know how many years and it worked fine. It never popped out of gear which is weird.
Srod? I hate them. But they do work for light duty uses
@@InvincibleExtremes TOD (Topshift OverDrive) actually not SROD. It is the one with the shifter mechanism all in the top cover similar to a Borg Warner T-18 or New Process 435.
Oh. I think i have one in my 88 bronco with 4x4
@@InvincibleExtremes Really! The 4 wheel drive versions of the TOD specifically not the SROD are really rare. But question. Does the shift nob have an O with a D in the middle for 4th (Means overdrive)
No, sorry i meant i think i have a t18. Don't think its OD, and the shift knob is gone...
Thanks! You have a disassembling video???
Eduardo Chamorro I don't think I do. I followed an picture article online to disassemble it. Sorry, I'll do one when I rebuild it with fresh parts
The part that shifts the shift fork not sure what it’s called but has a knob on it, did you use the large one for the bottom or did you use one of the two small ones for the bottom shift fork
There's a very good visual article online I was able to follow. Was easy to find. You talking about the shift lever?
Parts are getting hard to find the t170. I have one in my 85 e150
Do you have any insight on bolting a 4 speed Muncie to a newer 1 piece rear main sbc ? I figured you might know.. Thanks
+Cameron feltz no sorry. I just know it can be done, just never had to myself...
I have a 1988 Ford f150 4.9L bulldog 4 speed. Do you know where I could find a standard Ford speed set of years and remove the granny 1st?
Four not Ford lol
Where do you get rebuild parts for the overdrive ones? Saw some on eBay but wasn’t sure. I rebuilt one with a different output shaft for my early bronco, but it won’t engage into 2nd or reverse. Not sure if I missed something or if the synchros needed replacing. Thanks
I grabbed an ebay one. You probably got your little pins backwards btw
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage I rebuilt it a few years ago and just now getting to be able to use it. Can’t remember the pins now but you’re probably right. Second wants to grind and won’t engage so I’m guessing it’s a synchro, I’ll find out soon.
Could be. If you got the pins wrong it would be completely locked up
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage I took the driveshaft off and spun it. Then it went into the all the gears like it should, I’ll put it back on and see what happens.
What kind of custom Stuff I'm doing similar swap to ford toploader 4 speed
So just to clesr things up. You took the internals from a real toploader and put them into one of the overdrive toploader cases? Is there any place where i can find written out instructions on how to to this?
Yes. Real toploader gears in this. Using the guts and case from this. Sorry theres not really a write up anywhere. I had to make it work... fairly simple actually besides the input shaft. It needs to be turned on a lathe to work.
@@InvincibleExtremes very cool. Since ive watched your video ive been debating on attempting this on my transmission or buying a new one.
doable... so the case, shifters and idle shaft are the exact same... if you get all new gears, and the kickass new 26 spline input... and have someone who can cut the input down to fit the bearing it will all go together. The mainshaft will need a little work but when you compare the gears side by side it becomes super obvious.
Maybe i am dumb but what type of trans is this ? It looks just like a 3 spd i pulled off of a ford 390 FE
bentboybbz the greatest trans ever. ford toploader 4 speed
What is a good stick shift with possible over drive to put behind a 460 in a 4 x 4 bronco 1978
Pat Mosher toploader is the best. Not sure they made an overdrive one in a 4x4 though
Np435 is tough as nails with granny low. can't power shift it though....Its what they came with.
@@InvincibleExtremes They made the TOD version with 4WD. That's what my truck has.
What has to be modded for a 4 speed main shaft to work in one of these? I've got a SMOD that I want to put in my '59 Galaxie that needs the long (27") main shaft. I wish I had a junk 4 speed main shaft to see if the O/D gears will fit.
Thank you!
3rd gear had a different setup. Everything else was kinda the same. In fact I reused many parts like the shifter forks and syncros
Is this video putting SROD internals in a close/wide ratio toploader? I have 2 toploaders and an SROD and if I could put the SROD gears in the toploader case for overdrive, that'd be cool. The aluminum SROD cases usually twist
Jake Duncan no, this is the pre srod overdrive. Some called it the toploader imposter. I put regular 4 speed gears in it
Oh okay. If I could find a way to put SROD drivetrain in the stronger toploader case, I would haha. A Gear Vendors overdrive unit is 3000 bucks 😂 screw that. I'd rather spend 3000 dollars in gas without OD
Jake Duncan or just find one of these 4 speed overdrive toploader. They are cheap and strong.
Gear oils kisna liter lagata hai
I just picked up one of these transmissions. I wish there was a write up somewhere for this.
Chris Rinehart for swapping in wide ratio guts?
Invincible Extremes Muscle Cars Garage yeah I do better with things written usually. I haven’t found any other information on people doing gear swaps in theses cases
Chris Rinehart that's because nobody else does them. The front and rear bearings are unique on this transmissions and limit what you can do without a machine shop. Feel free to message me on the channels facebook page and I'll scoot you any info I can think of and answer your questions.
thanks I appreciate that. Gotta go fast on a budget and 4 speeds are way cooler than autos
Chris Rinehart oh yeah, I agree.
the drive test was my favorite
Yeah, I miss driving that car
Nice job. Happy Holidays!
Todd Reimer thanks! you too!
Great video!I've never done a 4 speed.Looks similar to a motorcycle only bigger.The overdrive should make it much better for long trips.Your car might a bit too good for roadkill.I'm sure they'll let you in anyway.
i swapped the busted overdrive gear set for the legendary wide ratio heavy duty ones... with 2.56 gears I'm not hurting for an overdrive...
wish I was smart enough to build a car like this.
fook me I'm sure you arent stupid. its just a matter of doing some reading and asking the right questions... and knowing what you want. and tons and tons of hard work
And some cubic money. :-)
You are bro. I have a 79 ranchero with a 5.8. I only gotta replace the master cylinder, power steering pump, reservoir for brake fluid, alternator but cause I want too. Then I'm going to paint it black. But God I wanna do it all myself now. Idk if I'll be able to replace all that myself tho. But by God ima try. Thx. Keep the vids coming.
it will move, Very well, Thumbs up
steve ballard I'm thinking of swapping the input shaft for a stronger 26 spline one... it doesn't need the bigger bearing retainer but is stronger than the 10 spline ford unit...
хорошее видео как всегда лайк, только болты фиксации вилок переключения передач посоветовалбы намазать резьбовым клеем, еще его называют фиксатором резьбы, от вибраций болты даже очень сильно затянутые могут выкручиваться.
Serhio Tequilla called "locktite" in America. да, согласен в етом.
i couldn't figure out what i was looking at for a second then realized it was camera girl's toes. great videos as always. did you modify it to be overdrive then? do you have the plans for this somewhere?
Jay Groom it was an overdrive and $125.... i modifyed it the other way... swapping some heavy duty toploader gears and input shaft into it. now it kicks ass
oh, OK, gotcha. Did you do this at the in laws then drive home? I would get a little nervous taking long trip right away.
Jay Groom i did it at the inlaws and test drove it, then went home in the rental. I'll be back in january to take this whole rig to roadkill ziptie drags hopefully
what kind of car did that O/D transmission come out of?
Jay Groom 77 and 78 ford f150 trucks and vans. 3rd gear is an OD so you shift 1-2-4-OD(3rd) ... theres one on ebay right now. many people call them "imposter toploaders" ... honestly, the only thing wrong with them is the metalurgy of the cluster gear... it sucks and is brittle amd made in mexico.... i have two, both with shatterd cluster gears in two different spots. the other thing wrong with them is the huge jump from 2nd to 4th... 3rd being the overdrive. i wouldn't pay more than 200 bucks for one, and honestly they kick ass behind a small block... just not doing burnouts while pulling a trailer with a 461 stroker 68 firebird...
How do you tell the 351 trans with taller 1-2 gears than the
Different tooth count.
Happy New Year too you and family best for 2017!!!!🍻
Scott F thanks! you too!
Another awesome video!
bluesmoke218 thanks!
gracias hermano
muy educativo
Thanks@
Happy New Year
thanks, you too!
cinder block work bench ftw
hiryderAUD as long as it works!
Awesome
thanks
U need a r-10
2.56.... wow. that is some rear gear.
David Chadwick i know, i love it. and it still does mid 13 second over 100 mph quarter mile times despite the steep gear...
Watch those toes
Yup
first to watch
Shelly Henderson thanks!