Best value for money at the moment is to buy one of your 1500watt kits and fit it to a hard tail mountain bike with decent tyres best 2 electric bikes I've ever built the customers love them
I think the biggest appeal of an ebike like the Specialized is for uplift bike parks, the price is up for debate but something so lightweight would be perfect for throwing down a loam course then getting back up in good time! I'd say the comparison is unfair but I guess you could apply the DIY build idea to an enduro/trail bike similar to the Specialized and STILL do it way cheaper, but only if you want to run the gauntlet of parts of dubious quality 👀
I've got a Giant Stance e+. Not the most expensive ebike but with a few upgraded components and a speedbox, it's the best thing since sliced bread 😉 Martin
Summary of the ebikes: Prefab ebike: slow af, restricted 250W power, too expensive for what you get, nicer looking, discreet and sleek, road legal. DIY ebike: customisable, faster, derestricted power, repairable, way cheaper, can be a bit messy in terms of wires and visible controller, illegal on roads.
sorry, this type of video is what will end up shutting down MTB trails. Andy's bike is a electric motorcycle with pedals (electric moped) while the Specialized is a E-MTB desigened to do proper trails and give you a slight bit of assistance, mainly on uphills when you need it while still exercising
Same point I politely made about the previous video of this bike - that carving up forests would get all off-roading banned. Clearly my appeal had the opposite effect🤷🏻♂️ The DIY bike is a motocrosser, the Spesh is an evolution of high tech, low weight mtb tech. A state of the art bike that’s had thousands thrown at getting a bike that performs well as a pedal bike, but has power assist. Serious MTBers don’t actually want a bike they can’t exercise on! 250w is the legal max for U.K. roads, so the manufacturer’s hands are tied. I do know that some folk have sussed out to override the limiter in the electronics to get a bit more performance, but most riders aren’t eBiking like lard arsed novices who don’t want to put in any effort. I first did downhill in the Alps in ‘99. It wasn’t power that was needed, but big disk brakes! There were some uphill sections, but nothing serious. A 250w motor would be ample. Geometry, weight etc all affect handling and a dropper post is a boon. Excess weight on the downhill sections is really unwelcome. I’d like to see how these two bikes stack up in a range of scenarios. My bet is that on a full day’s ride, the DIY bike would flake out long before the production bike.
@@IIIIIIPETEIIIIII We definitely agree. There are two different categories of e-bikes. The ones that are basically electric motorcycles like Andy's and the E-mtb, which is a bike with some assist. Two different worlds, two different purposes. The bike Any has should only be on trails that are designated for motorcycles. Here in the USA we e-MTB riders are fighting a battle every day to keep trails open to us, and every time someone tries to ride an electric motorcycle on MTB trails that are forbidden for motorcycles we get closer to getting all E-mtb banned. I personally have half of my knee cap missing from a prior motorcycle accident, and cannot ride going uphill pedaling while standing up, and my Specialized Levo has made it possible for me to ride again. I put in over 35 miles this past weekend on some serious trails. Never would have happened without the Levo. I want the workout. If I wanted power I would still be riding dirtbikes. Maybe a electric one. I have a friend with the KTM and it is great, but it would no be on the trails I rode this past weekend. Respect the trails so we can all continue to enjoy them. There is a place for everyone if we all obey the rules.
The edits with the drone are great. Tunes bangin as always Andy and omy Steve had me rolling over with laughter at his disgust with the leaf blower 🤣. He needs your vapour!
Definitely proved the point between home build vs store brought legal. Even if you unlock the Levo (which voids your warranty) it doesn't compare to a motor which peaks out 3x the power of the brose. And to add insult to injury, it's the same for Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha etc. Bafang (the older variants are somewhat exempt as they can be programmed open source. Mind you, I would be interested in seeing a comparison between the Bafang Ultra vs TQ (The Haibike motor). Keep up the vids dude (both of you) 🤙
Theyre actualy about 600W in turbo mode, I go for something in the middle. 2000w geared hub drive fitted to a DH bike; you can pick it up over fences and it looks like an ordinary emtb. It cost me 1200 quid all in. My new bbshd powered fattie is just the perfect bike.
I would say the only place legal e-bikes are better is on actual mountain bike trails. I tried getting my 5kW BBSHD up a relatively steep trail and found it too much power. You need small throttle inputs with lots of torque so I really needed a low power mode. At one point I had stopped on a slope, tried to get going again using the motor and when it kicked in it knocked me off and I accidentally twisted the throttle causing the bike did a backflip in front of me. That sort of thing wouldn't happen with 250W, or even 750W. I could have also benefitted from a lighter bike with full suspension, particularly when coming downhill. Our trails seem to be incredibly rough, rutted and full of rocks. Not nice on a heavy hard tail!
Professionally done is always th best way to do it. Except you’ll have to deal with some of the safety precautions with it. Building your own on the other hand. More controller and potentially more power.
250w Ebikes are useless up here in Scotland given how hilly the place is and its no surprise that a 250w motor and 15mph speed limit suits Londoners down to the ground given how flat their surroundings are and how slowly the traffic moves, yet another law that was made with only Londoners in mind. Will be happily buying one of the 1500w DIY kits once i've got the money since they'll actually be useful when tackled with a hill and can keep up with traffic instead of leaving you in a dangerous scenario where cars will be passing you at high speed since your stuck at 15mph all because of a stupid law. Keep up the great content btw mate, really enjoying it.
250W in a purpose built mtb -"pathetic" considering the enormous price ! A great Diy vs Store bought comparison video. It really shows how shit the Laws are regarding E-Bike Power Restrictions 😎👍👌 I really think they should bump the power regulations up to a still conservative "500W or even 1KW" Would be much safer for road use, entering the flow of traffic through suburbs etc.
DIY all Day, my baby's a 3kw, 113nm of torque with a 1/4 twist thumb throttle, i might bring it 7kw-10kw eventually with my next bike. It's a specialized pitch comp fsr 2011 large frame with a 31ah samsung 35e pack. It literally takes up the whole triangle, it's so tight on the tolerance that besides a safety velcro strap it's an interference fit. I like the range, 60km @60kmh , 125km@25kmh and comfort these bikes have is unreal.
lawd i lost mah shite when he says not too muddy and then turns. when i meet someone who doesnt take themselves so seriously its truly a rare breath of fresh air m8's. thank you.
Build your own. My bike has a hand built frame by me and a 1000w 26 inch wheel re spoked to a 20 inch rim.Its top speed is about 20 mph but has superb climbing abilities for my hilly location.Coupled with a 48 v 20 amp hour battery I get 30 mile range. I built it to suit my size and is super comfortable.
As others have said...two completely different bikes...I like them both but they are very different. Personally why buy a bicycle if your not going to pedal it and get a workout in. I feel that's exactly what the 250w pedal assist bike was made for/be able to do/give you a little boost....the other bike is not even what I would call a bicycle...it's an electric moped. Just my thoughts...but keep up the good work, electric vehicles need to be something we all start using more of.
Andy, your bike is awesome, but to be fair, riding with a guy on a CAB Motorworks ebike, or a Stealth, or an HPC ebike, would be a more equitable comparison of DIY to a real ebike.
i have access to a few different bikes, sur-ron, kona coiler with 3kw cyclone, uk legal full suspension ebike, hardtail analog. They are all completely different things, Andy's bike would be completely useless down some decent trails with jumps etc plus its not legal. A sur ron would be a much better option if all you care about is off road riding without needing to pedal, at least a sur ron would be able to tackle some proper trails
I got into building ebikes via videos by Andy and others I've done hub,bbshd,ultra, juiced up a couple of shimano emotors and just done my first phase runner conversion on a Rocky Mountain Dynamag with great results. I think Andy and Steve should do a phase runner conversion on the levo to unlock the watts...that should generate some creative hate mail...thanks guys.
To be fair it's a mountain bike...try go downhill on a mountain with them and then you see the difference...thing is you need to leave the country to find a place to use that 8k bike to it's potential. The point of it is to help the rider going up hill on the road or the trail with the motor. While still allow him to blast down the trails going down. The big hub motor wouldn't last 1h doing jumps and going flat out on actual mountain bike trails. Look at something like the below to decide what you'd take on a ride like that. ruclips.net/video/oMxLI6DbjL8m/видео.html
Haha, totally different bikes but I agree on all points. 8k could defo be better spent. The 8k bike is for downhill and jumping etc, the hub drive bike would struggle and possibly break going down the same serious downhill and jumps, the 8k motor is just to make climbing a little easier but you would have to rich or a crazy to buy that bike imho. For most normal people a hub drive is ok and most reliable option. I love my 1000w hub drive but not being legal on the roads is a consideration. But I ride carefully when needed and just enjoy the fun of a cheap fast ebike.
Been meaning to see if it was possible to squeeze a bike past those concrete barriers, last time I took my push bike there (years ago) I had to lift it over. Not the fairest comparison, the Specialized is meant to be compared to a push bike on some proper trails. A better comparison with the DIY bike would be something like a Sur-ron or Kuberg.
That would make his look shit then😂😂😂😂 , this has got to be one of the worst reviews I've even seen🤣 go and put your bike up against another dirt bike like the sur-ron or KTM, the levo is a awesome bit of kit to! It's just not for you lazy boy's
@@oo7981 This bike has been programmed to be tame it's a lot more powerful than a sur-ron. I have a 4320w ebike similar this and its has as much torque as a sur-ron and a higher top speed. And later I will be upgrading to the controller to get 10kw.
I got a 250w back wheel 36v , 10 ah and converted my old bike , 250w only legal on road in Australia , I fitted the throttle (illegal too) and I get 30kph + speed out of it with no mods but I mostly use PAS . The range on road is 50ks + and increased my riding no end . I would never buy a ready made name brand Ebike as your paying 1,000s for the name with crappy performance . For $500 au I have a great Ebike , very happy with it :-)
I would like to have seen the Specialized vs The Vapour. I think thats a more even match up, although the vapour would blow it out the water lol. They are both bicycles in thats sense. Like Steve said thats more on a motor cross style
I’ve ridden the vapour against the specialised and basically the vapour is quicker up the hills but it is heavy and not as balanced on an intermediate bike park trail.It also eats batteries I have to take a spare
Hey guys, great vid. Just wondering where exactly this spot is? Im pretty local to you guys so i don't think it could be that far from me Just looks like such a good spot. Nice 1. Matt. 🤙🏻👌🏻👍🏻
250w has it's place, all I want or need buzzing down the shops, but yeah he could've just built his own for less than a grand and the only difference would be a bit more weight and probably much better ranger, can't imagine that in frame battery has stunning range.
Most e-bikes sold in Britain are the legal limit of 250w that's ok for a kids e-scooter but for people who want a more thrilling ride it's just not good enough.😁
Well Oz here in Georgia we can have 1000w street legal Ebikes. I have had both purpose built and diy and always preferred my builds only because I can build a nice bike for less. One thing about a purpose built ebike is most everything about it is proprietary so doing any modifications before the warranty is out is not suggested. I can design my bikes to run on any battery available with power levels between 36 to 72 volt generally with dual power setting for 750 to 1500 watt and 9 PAS levels No commercially made ebikes can do that plus a conversion kit is just that. A kit that converts most any bicycle (of same rim size as kit) into an ebike in around 45 minutes for me and I have taken the kit off one bike and install it on another donor bike in one afternoon just to see how it worked. Did not like it so I changed it back. Plus most of my bikes look so damn Urban Ugly not even the street people mess with it.
Jeese mate. Like your videos. But your mate was riding what looks like a levo SL. Whichnis the low powered emtb. He would not be strugling on a proper full fat Levo.
The specialised turbo Levo is for a proper mountain biker it’s beautifully balanced and has superb range.I’ve got a vapour and with the 1500w m610 motor it eats batteries.I have raced a specialised around Cannock Chase monkey trail and it destroyed me it’s just too heavy.
If you have £8k to spend why not buy an EM Motion electric trials bike. 600nM of torque. I'd quite like a Commencal, but £6k or so is too much for a bicycle with pedal assist. For £400 I put a geared hub motor on my Boardman and it takes me to 90% of the experience of proper eMTB, without feeling I have to use it every weekend to get my moneys worth. The 6k I spent on a Sherco 250cc trials bike. Infinitely more fun than any ebike.
Hi andy. Your able to see all of the vitals on your phone via a app n bluetooth , is that a savaton app or the app that comes with whatever controller your using? I'm using a Kelly controller, has an app but it's not real time (gutted)
what is the point of this video? you are comparing two totally different things. It would be the same to sit in the traffic jam with ferrari and declare that running would be faster :D granted the price point of specialized is stupid high, but the bike is designed for different use. Compare e dirt bikes to your build, then video would have point at least.
Yes, you can buy a mid-drive bike like the Levo for thousands less (I did) but there will always be that guy who will swear by the Levo and it's 8k price tag. It's his money.
I liked the video it shows how ridiculous the price of some of those e bikes has gotten for what you really get and how much more bang for your buck you get if you DIY. The same thing also applies to e bikes in lower price ranges. A 1000$ diy completely destroys a 2000$ prebuilt e bike.
To be fair going from a Ferrari to a Nova its always going to be slow and boring, but then this bike isnt aimed at people like you 2, i met a old boy the other day who had one and he was a recovering heart attack victim, and needed to get out and get fit'r, the ebike was the only way for him to do so, im disabled, and the only way i can get out riding is on a ebike bike, without it i would be stuck indoors, i dont need 5 billion watts of power, i have a 250w hub and its enough to get me going, With regards title it depends on your skill level, many out there would probably blow themselves up is they attempted to do have the stuff you do, most just like the easy route to the end result
Though I wouldn't bother getting a top spec e-mountain bike if I was an old person with a heart condition. If I were Sam Pilgrim maybe, although he can get performance out of just about anything.
Those two are about as opposite as you can go with ebikes. I wish we had the technology for that Levo SL to have about 2000whr and 2000w (throw in a throttle too) yet be 40lbs. That would be a perfect bike. Totally impossible currently, but one can dream. Interesting video! I run a BBSHD on a Surly Krampus for year round commuting duty. Gets you the mid drive and most the MTB goodness, but with some real usable POWERERRRRRRRR
I went on a test ride day out with cube bikes i was very disappointed the price of them are stupid!! I bought a sur ron and after 2 years of owning not had one fault, oh and sur ron was 4 grand cheaper then the cube electric bikes
One is road legal, the other is not. It just ends there....On one you do some exercise, on the other its just battery power (I dont see much peddling there). Horses for courses...either get a proper two stroke for this scenario or something from here www.englishelectricmotorco.com/zero-motorcycles/ .... this is apples to oranges comparison
I am fan of the DIY route, for a few reasons, if you put it together yourself you will know how to fix it, you can build it the way you want it. They sell these bikes for so much, because there's a market for them, and you have the likes of EMBN telling people they need to spend thousands on an ebike, and push their sponsors equipment, and when they do a tiny piece on DIY builds, they are never that favourable, which is sad really, one thing I don't really get on these DIY kits, is the throttle, for me kind of defeats the object of owning a bicycle, that's why I never got them on my bikes.
Hi I need help, just finally done a hall test (disconnected the 3 pin connector) the hall test went OK - no faults but I have no power going to my throttle, I've checked the voltage levels with min being at 1.5v and max being 5v, if this is OK what else could it be? I plan on checking the throttle connections and wires after I've had some sleep, any suggestions to a solution will be appreciated ?
Doesn't matter I sorted it, wires were connected the wrong way - redo hall test and the wheel went through the wall using the throttle :) all sorted just waiting for the freewheel then it's test ride time :)
Hey Andy, So, you need some hubsinks and a bit of statoraid, I know, I've had zero over heating out here even with high ambient temps..... Nice to see you out again. Oh and 2:09 again :-D
Hi andy thanks so much for the video. I have a diy ebike myself which i built using my old frame but unfortunately the rear dropouts of my frame are ruined due the 1500w motor randomly popping even with a torque arm! Is there a specific type of frame to using or do you have any recommendations for future ebike projects?
Normally drop outs a bit tighter than hub axle,and axle not going in all the way so you need filing out a bit, soon you do that will be no problem, but need to be tight and full fit
I've got to say, ...I've a full suspension boardman with the bafang bbshd motor 52v 17.5ah battery and it's great fun, 800quid for bike and about another 900 quid for motor and battery, so 1700 pounds and it goes like a rocket and loads of fun!...yet my partners boardman fazua motor although legal hybrid bike is light but not very powerful and cost more than my homemade one. The thing is whilst her hybrid bike isn't powerful its light and could be pedalled without battery assistance, so you pays your money and take your choice,
£8k for a Specialised ebike? I could get a second-hand Triumph Bobber for that, and smile for miles! Defo will get Andy's kit and build my own. I've a spare old ICE tadpole trike that'll be perfect for the job.
Can someone suggest me a smallest possible 50-100A controller?, I bought a 80A ESC from aliexpres... It works but the throttle PWM thingy sucks and doesnt have hall sensor input which sucks even more since acceleration on low RPM doesnt exist.
Ha Ha, I'm with Steve 100% - think of the e-bike you could build with £7500 to £8500! You'd get fitter with the Levo but think of the fun you'd have with some proper clean POWER!!!!
Hi Andy, love the videos and great work on your bike builds. I'm starting my project of an electric bike and I have a couple of questions about motors and batteries. Sorry if this has been asked before but I am looking at a 5kw brushless hub motor from China and a 2kw speed controller also from China. Is this ok to run or would it be better to be the other way around? It seems hard to find a matching motor and speed controller pair that is the same kw. The bike will be used for road use mainly and long distance riding. Any help would be appreciated as I am new to this and would rather get it right the first time. Thank you.
I really want one of your mudguard controllers, noticed yours went from about 10 o'clock to 8 o'clock and then roughly 6:25 in the slop. Nice to see though that it was at 12 o'clock position at the end of the video - which is of course the gentleman's angle.
good show. I have a hard time classing the bike you was on as anything other than an electric scoter. It had pedals,cranks,chainring,deraileier,cassette all of which wernt used. If this ebike was not electrically assisted it would be next to useless as pedalling would get you knowhere very slowly. But i guess having working pedals is a legal work around. If my legs wernt going in circles id very much want them to be planted on motorbike pegs. Im having thoughts on an ebike,i dont need a fancy display red/amber/green light on the battery is good enough for me. I have seen some kind of dummy safety switches need attched to brakes,just to make sure you not wide open on throttle and wondering why the front brakes are doing nothing,surely i can avoid using them ? im not dissing the whole ebike thing,im interested but there still seems to be more - than +
Whats up w/ needing the top dollar best of the best just on a toy... I spent $400 on a razor mx650 and I got a big motor and battery for about $250 and it does 35mph (on a slight downhill) and I dont6even have the biggest motor or battery I can get in that bike, I'd rather go DIY but I build my own instead of buying a premade bike.
I've just got in from riding home from my work on my new 500watt ebike kit. It's great but it started making a whining noise from the motor. Its brand new....any ideas? It's just a front wheel conversion. That video looked fun !
Factory ebikes need power mods to make them exciting. They are only 250w to keep within the law. A high end factory ebike will blow a diy ebike out of the water off road only if you are a good rider and are into proper mountain biking. Try and do a set of big jumps or a 6ft drop and the diy bike will fail. If your only using it for light off road then diy is fine. Anything hardcore your going to be wanting factory built i'm affraid.
Enjoy your vids and your content but this video is pointless. It’s like comparing chalk and cheese. If you want a bike to run flat out through fields tracks like that then buy/build an electric motorcycle......or a petrol scrambler. The EMTB is for a completely different purpose and as such would win hands down on proper downhill trails / ascending and descending mountains and even in a purpose built bike park.
8K for a bike is ridiculous! Unless it was hand build from custom parts - so a unique ‘one of a kind’. But then one can build a beast of an ebike for a third of that price from off the self imported parts.
Get in front Steve and take Andy on a trail that includes a lift over gate, you be home before he rings 3 other mates to help him lift that overweight, overpowered, quick trip to the nick, monster to the other side. 😂😂
Iv just got myself A Dultron Eagle Pro 3600 watt scooter off ebay got it at a bargain for a thousand pounds exactly. Only 6 months old under 250miles on it ...Any 1 knows if I got stopped by police will I get told off iv got a full face helmet and 48 yrs old riding responsible and it's very fast like a picket Rocket...
If that Lenovo is unable to be deresticted then it's pointless, why have a carbon frame then put a meagre motor in it , get a Vulcan from Halfords or build your own , I got a Vulcan and am unimpressed as to its performance so am building a 1500 watt bike ..it wont cost £8000 plus either..
Steve: I don’t mind getting muddy I just don’t want my feet to get wet.bike park:fuckin send it 😭.Andy how much would your bike set us back if we was to build 1 .looks a lot of fun that bike not gonna lie
Your mate got ripped off, he could have bought a brand name carbon fibre 29er MTB frame online for about 400 GBP, he could have bought himself a hub motor & controller that cost around 1000 GBP & decked out the rest of the bike with parts for less than 1200 GBP, a 20s 10p 40 Ah usable Litokala 26650 cost around 1350 GBP . So for 3950 GBP instead of paying 7249 GBP saving around 3299 GBP with a much faster bike. This is the problem with someone that has the attitude of I want it now as opposed to I can wait, if you want something now you'll never be satisfied unless you can wait.
There is a hack you may be able to do where you move the speed sensor magnet on the frame at crank , which increases the speed of the specialized bicycle, other people have done bit on haibike it increases speed to 28 mph, look up speed limiter hack mtb on RUclips
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No comparison.....one is a mountain designed to be peddled....the other is an electric motorbike with pedals.
This is the problem when you get a taste of those big motors as soon as you get in anything standard you feel like it doesn’t even move
Best value for money at the moment is to buy one of your 1500watt kits and fit it to a hard tail mountain bike with decent tyres best 2 electric bikes I've ever built the customers love them
@@bebobism how do you know
I think the biggest appeal of an ebike like the Specialized is for uplift bike parks, the price is up for debate but something so lightweight would be perfect for throwing down a loam course then getting back up in good time!
I'd say the comparison is unfair but I guess you could apply the DIY build idea to an enduro/trail bike similar to the Specialized and STILL do it way cheaper, but only if you want to run the gauntlet of parts of dubious quality 👀
I've got a Giant Stance e+. Not the most expensive ebike but with a few upgraded components and a speedbox, it's the best thing since sliced bread 😉
Martin
Summary of the ebikes:
Prefab ebike: slow af, restricted 250W power, too expensive for what you get, nicer looking, discreet and sleek, road legal.
DIY ebike: customisable, faster, derestricted power, repairable, way cheaper, can be a bit messy in terms of wires and visible controller, illegal on roads.
A DIY bike restricted to 250watt is road legal
Above 16 mph it's zero watts
Tbh as long as you aren't being an idiot on the road I don't think cops will care.
If you don't draw attention then you won't get noticed
@@captainheat2314 But how would the cops know your bike is over 250W? Is there a way of telling just by looking at the bike?
sorry, this type of video is what will end up shutting down MTB trails. Andy's bike is a electric motorcycle with pedals (electric moped) while the Specialized is a E-MTB desigened to do proper trails and give you a slight bit of assistance, mainly on uphills when you need it while still exercising
Since his is registered as such I agree..but if he wasnt..he should be allowed to be there.. IF he hadn't gotten registered that is
250W is shit . At least 500W like the States and Canada but no 250W is rubbish even for hardcore MTBers .
no one cares in the uk. Long as you aint hurting anyone or acting a fool people leave you to it
Same point I politely made about the previous video of this bike - that carving up forests would get all off-roading banned. Clearly my appeal had the opposite effect🤷🏻♂️
The DIY bike is a motocrosser, the Spesh is an evolution of high tech, low weight mtb tech. A state of the art bike that’s had thousands thrown at getting a bike that performs well as a pedal bike, but has power assist. Serious MTBers don’t actually want a bike they can’t exercise on! 250w is the legal max for U.K. roads, so the manufacturer’s hands are tied. I do know that some folk have sussed out to override the limiter in the electronics to get a bit more performance, but most riders aren’t eBiking like lard arsed novices who don’t want to put in any effort.
I first did downhill in the Alps in ‘99. It wasn’t power that was needed, but big disk brakes! There were some uphill sections, but nothing serious. A 250w motor would be ample.
Geometry, weight etc all affect handling and a dropper post is a boon. Excess weight on the downhill sections is really unwelcome.
I’d like to see how these two bikes stack up in a range of scenarios. My bet is that on a full day’s ride, the DIY bike would flake out long before the production bike.
@@IIIIIIPETEIIIIII We definitely agree. There are two different categories of e-bikes. The ones that are basically electric motorcycles like Andy's and the E-mtb, which is a bike with some assist. Two different worlds, two different purposes. The bike Any has should only be on trails that are designated for motorcycles. Here in the USA we e-MTB riders are fighting a battle every day to keep trails open to us, and every time someone tries to ride an electric motorcycle on MTB trails that are forbidden for motorcycles we get closer to getting all E-mtb banned. I personally have half of my knee cap missing from a prior motorcycle accident, and cannot ride going uphill pedaling while standing up, and my Specialized Levo has made it possible for me to ride again. I put in over 35 miles this past weekend on some serious trails. Never would have happened without the Levo. I want the workout. If I wanted power I would still be riding dirtbikes. Maybe a electric one. I have a friend with the KTM and it is great, but it would no be on the trails I rode this past weekend. Respect the trails so we can all continue to enjoy them. There is a place for everyone if we all obey the rules.
The edits with the drone are great. Tunes bangin as always Andy and omy Steve had me rolling over with laughter at his disgust with the leaf blower 🤣. He needs your vapour!
Definitely proved the point between home build vs store brought legal.
Even if you unlock the Levo (which voids your warranty) it doesn't compare to a motor which peaks out 3x the power of the brose. And to add insult to injury, it's the same for Shimano, Bosch, Yamaha etc. Bafang (the older variants are somewhat exempt as they can be programmed open source.
Mind you, I would be interested in seeing a comparison between the Bafang Ultra vs TQ (The Haibike motor). Keep up the vids dude (both of you) 🤙
Theyre actualy about 600W in turbo mode, I go for something in the middle.
2000w geared hub drive fitted to a DH bike; you can pick it up over fences and it looks like an ordinary emtb.
It cost me 1200 quid all in.
My new bbshd powered fattie is just the perfect bike.
I would say the only place legal e-bikes are better is on actual mountain bike trails. I tried getting my 5kW BBSHD up a relatively steep trail and found it too much power. You need small throttle inputs with lots of torque so I really needed a low power mode. At one point I had stopped on a slope, tried to get going again using the motor and when it kicked in it knocked me off and I accidentally twisted the throttle causing the bike did a backflip in front of me. That sort of thing wouldn't happen with 250W, or even 750W.
I could have also benefitted from a lighter bike with full suspension, particularly when coming downhill. Our trails seem to be incredibly rough, rutted and full of rocks. Not nice on a heavy hard tail!
Just Lower the power in assist level 1 easy
Professionally done is always th best way to do it. Except you’ll have to deal with some of the safety precautions with it.
Building your own on the other hand. More controller and potentially more power.
250w Ebikes are useless up here in Scotland given how hilly the place is and its no surprise that a 250w motor and 15mph speed limit suits Londoners down to the ground given how flat their surroundings are and how slowly the traffic moves, yet another law that was made with only Londoners in mind. Will be happily buying one of the 1500w DIY kits once i've got the money since they'll actually be useful when tackled with a hill and can keep up with traffic instead of leaving you in a dangerous scenario where cars will be passing you at high speed since your stuck at 15mph all because of a stupid law. Keep up the great content btw mate, really enjoying it.
get the levo and a levociraptor kit. works great has 350w and alot more battery and power
@@benphillips1149 nah he needs a 8000w bad boy
250W in a purpose built mtb -"pathetic" considering the enormous price !
A great Diy vs Store bought comparison video.
It really shows how shit the Laws are regarding E-Bike Power Restrictions 😎👍👌
I really think they should bump the power regulations up to a still conservative "500W or even 1KW" Would be much safer for road use, entering the flow of traffic through suburbs etc.
These bikes are completely different, one is an electric dirt bike pretty much the other is an emtb
DIY all Day, my baby's a 3kw, 113nm of torque with a 1/4 twist thumb throttle, i might bring it 7kw-10kw eventually with my next bike. It's a specialized pitch comp fsr 2011 large frame with a 31ah samsung 35e pack. It literally takes up the whole triangle, it's so tight on the tolerance that besides a safety velcro strap it's an interference fit. I like the range, 60km @60kmh , 125km@25kmh and comfort these bikes have is unreal.
lawd i lost mah shite when he says not too muddy and then turns. when i meet someone who doesnt take themselves so seriously its truly a rare breath of fresh air m8's.
thank you.
Build your own. My bike has a hand built frame by me and a 1000w 26 inch wheel re spoked to a 20 inch rim.Its top speed is about 20 mph but has superb climbing abilities for my hilly location.Coupled with a 48 v 20 amp hour battery I get 30 mile range. I built it to suit my size and is super comfortable.
As others have said...two completely different bikes...I like them both but they are very different. Personally why buy a bicycle if your not going to pedal it and get a workout in. I feel that's exactly what the 250w pedal assist bike was made for/be able to do/give you a little boost....the other bike is not even what I would call a bicycle...it's an electric moped. Just my thoughts...but keep up the good work, electric vehicles need to be something we all start using more of.
Andy, your bike is awesome, but to be fair, riding with a guy on a CAB Motorworks ebike, or a Stealth, or an HPC ebike, would be a more equitable comparison of DIY to a real ebike.
It’s funny Andy, your advertisements are switch bikes 😂
i have access to a few different bikes, sur-ron, kona coiler with 3kw cyclone, uk legal full suspension ebike, hardtail analog. They are all completely different things, Andy's bike would be completely useless down some decent trails with jumps etc plus its not legal. A sur ron would be a much better option if all you care about is off road riding without needing to pedal, at least a sur ron would be able to tackle some proper trails
I got into building ebikes via videos by Andy and others I've done hub,bbshd,ultra, juiced up a couple of shimano emotors and just done my first phase runner conversion on a Rocky Mountain Dynamag with great results. I think Andy and Steve should do a phase runner conversion on the levo to unlock the watts...that should generate some creative hate mail...thanks guys.
To be fair it's a mountain bike...try go downhill on a mountain with them and then you see the difference...thing is you need to leave the country to find a place to use that 8k bike to it's potential.
The point of it is to help the rider going up hill on the road or the trail with the motor. While still allow him to blast down the trails going down. The big hub motor wouldn't last 1h doing jumps and going flat out on actual mountain bike trails.
Look at something like the below to decide what you'd take on a ride like that.
ruclips.net/video/oMxLI6DbjL8m/видео.html
Lookin at those results I’d go for a diy every time. Nice vid Andy!
Haha, totally different bikes but I agree on all points.
8k could defo be better spent.
The 8k bike is for downhill and jumping etc, the hub drive bike would struggle and possibly break going down the same serious downhill and jumps, the 8k motor is just to make climbing a little easier but you would have to rich or a crazy to buy that bike imho.
For most normal people a hub drive is ok and most reliable option.
I love my 1000w hub drive but not being legal on the roads is a consideration.
But I ride carefully when needed and just enjoy the fun of a cheap fast ebike.
id get the normal specialized. whole point is not getting tired
steves honesty was like a breath of fresh air.
Top videos when these two are together honest unbiased opinions.
Been meaning to see if it was possible to squeeze a bike past those concrete barriers, last time I took my push bike there (years ago) I had to lift it over.
Not the fairest comparison, the Specialized is meant to be compared to a push bike on some proper trails. A better comparison with the DIY bike would be something like a Sur-ron or Kuberg.
Hey mate, where exactly is this spot?? I have a Surron & this spot looks perfect. Cheers bud. Matt.
@@mattverlander545 It's up Sele Farm, the coordinates are 51.803277, -0.114450
Wouldn't the Sun Ron be a better comparison against your DIY e-bike?
That would make his look shit then😂😂😂😂 , this has got to be one of the worst reviews I've even seen🤣 go and put your bike up against another dirt bike like the sur-ron or KTM, the levo is a awesome bit of kit to! It's just not for you lazy boy's
@@oo7981 This bike has been programmed to be tame it's a lot more powerful than a sur-ron. I have a 4320w ebike similar this and its has as much torque as a sur-ron and a higher top speed. And later I will be upgrading to the controller to get 10kw.
I got a 250w back wheel 36v , 10 ah and converted my old bike , 250w only legal on road in Australia , I fitted the throttle (illegal too) and I get 30kph + speed out of it with no mods but I mostly use PAS . The range on road is 50ks + and increased my riding no end . I would never buy a ready made name brand Ebike as your paying 1,000s for the name with crappy performance . For $500 au I have a great Ebike , very happy with it :-)
I am in Scotland but had my bike converted by a local guy for £700, torque sense middrive and it will do 25mph.
I would like to have seen the Specialized vs The Vapour. I think thats a more even match up, although the vapour would blow it out the water lol. They are both bicycles in thats sense. Like Steve said thats more on a motor cross style
I’ve ridden the vapour against the specialised and basically the vapour is quicker up the hills but it is heavy and not as balanced on an intermediate bike park trail.It also eats batteries I have to take a spare
Hey guys, great vid. Just wondering where exactly this spot is?
Im pretty local to you guys so i don't think it could be that far from me
Just looks like such a good spot.
Nice 1. Matt. 🤙🏻👌🏻👍🏻
250w has it's place, all I want or need buzzing down the shops, but yeah he could've just built his own for less than a grand and the only difference would be a bit more weight and probably much better ranger, can't imagine that in frame battery has stunning range.
Most e-bikes sold in Britain are the legal limit of 250w that's ok for a kids e-scooter but for people who want a more thrilling ride it's just not good enough.😁
Well Oz here in Georgia we can have 1000w street legal Ebikes. I have had both purpose built and diy and always preferred my builds only because I can build a nice bike for less. One thing about a purpose built ebike is most everything about it is proprietary so doing any modifications before the warranty is out is not suggested. I can design my bikes to run on any battery available with power levels between 36 to 72 volt generally with dual power setting for 750 to 1500 watt and 9 PAS levels No commercially made ebikes can do that plus a conversion kit is just that. A kit that converts most any bicycle (of same rim size as kit) into an ebike in around 45 minutes for me and I have taken the kit off one bike and install it on another donor bike in one afternoon just to see how it worked. Did not like it so I changed it back. Plus most of my bikes look so damn Urban Ugly not even the street people mess with it.
I love your videos of you pissing around on Ebikes , are you going to be doing them in 35 years, I hope so 🤣
Jeese mate. Like your videos. But your mate was riding what looks like a levo SL. Whichnis the low powered emtb. He would not be strugling on a proper full fat Levo.
Anyone else want to see them clean the ebike too? 😂
The specialised turbo Levo is for a proper mountain biker it’s beautifully balanced and has superb range.I’ve got a vapour and with the 1500w m610 motor it eats batteries.I have raced a specialised around Cannock Chase monkey trail and it destroyed me it’s just too heavy.
If you have £8k to spend why not buy an EM Motion electric trials bike. 600nM of torque. I'd quite like a Commencal, but £6k or so is too much for a bicycle with pedal assist. For £400 I put a geared hub motor on my Boardman and it takes me to 90% of the experience of proper eMTB, without feeling I have to use it every weekend to get my moneys worth. The 6k I spent on a Sherco 250cc trials bike. Infinitely more fun than any ebike.
Hi andy. Your able to see all of the vitals on your phone via a app n bluetooth , is that a savaton app or the app that comes with whatever controller your using? I'm using a Kelly controller, has an app but it's not real time (gutted)
I’ve never seen you mention Harley scooter/citycoco. What’s your review about them..?
what is the point of this video? you are comparing two totally different things. It would be the same to sit in the traffic jam with ferrari and declare that running would be faster :D granted the price point of specialized is stupid high, but the bike is designed for different use. Compare e dirt bikes to your build, then video would have point at least.
Yes, you can buy a mid-drive bike like the Levo for thousands less (I did) but there will always be that guy who will swear by the Levo and it's 8k price tag. It's his money.
it's more of an informal vlog style channel anyway, not a dedicated ebike review/news format channel, doesn't really need or aim to make a point
I liked the video it shows how ridiculous the price of some of those e bikes has gotten for what you really get and how much more bang for your buck you get if you DIY.
The same thing also applies to e bikes in lower price ranges. A 1000$ diy completely destroys a 2000$ prebuilt e bike.
To be fair going from a Ferrari to a Nova its always going to be slow and boring, but then this bike isnt aimed at people like you 2, i met a old boy the other day who had one and he was a recovering heart attack victim, and needed to get out and get fit'r, the ebike was the only way for him to do so, im disabled, and the only way i can get out riding is on a ebike bike, without it i would be stuck indoors, i dont need 5 billion watts of power, i have a 250w hub and its enough to get me going,
With regards title it depends on your skill level, many out there would probably blow themselves up is they attempted to do have the stuff you do, most just like the easy route to the end result
Though I wouldn't bother getting a top spec e-mountain bike if I was an old person with a heart condition. If I were Sam Pilgrim maybe, although he can get performance out of just about anything.
Those two are about as opposite as you can go with ebikes. I wish we had the technology for that Levo SL to have about 2000whr and 2000w (throw in a throttle too) yet be 40lbs. That would be a perfect bike. Totally impossible currently, but one can dream. Interesting video! I run a BBSHD on a Surly Krampus for year round commuting duty. Gets you the mid drive and most the MTB goodness, but with some real usable POWERERRRRRRRR
I went on a test ride day out with cube bikes i was very disappointed the price of them are stupid!! I bought a sur ron and after 2 years of owning not had one fault, oh and sur ron was 4 grand cheaper then the cube electric bikes
One is road legal, the other is not. It just ends there....On one you do some exercise, on the other its just battery power (I dont see much peddling there). Horses for courses...either get a proper two stroke for this scenario or something from here www.englishelectricmotorco.com/zero-motorcycles/ .... this is apples to oranges comparison
Hey Andy,
Great new episode!
I'd choose an ebike, not a DIY. :)
Why? Just curious
DIY you get to put a 30 ah battery in instead of being stuck with those little packs on all these ebikes
Firstly, a diy and ebike isnt mutually exclusive..they can be both..your comment is nonsensical
You'll change your mind once you see mine ;)
@@jasonmiddleton5491 same
Andy would love see you make a 2wd ebike less top speed something like dual 1500w motors 28mph
I am fan of the DIY route, for a few reasons, if you put it together yourself you will know how to fix it, you can build it the way you want it.
They sell these bikes for so much, because there's a market for them, and you have the likes of EMBN telling people they need to spend thousands on an ebike, and push their sponsors equipment, and when they do a tiny piece on DIY builds, they are never that favourable, which is sad really, one thing I don't really get on these DIY kits, is the throttle, for me kind of defeats the object of owning a bicycle, that's why I never got them on my bikes.
Hi I need help, just finally done a hall test (disconnected the 3 pin connector) the hall test went OK - no faults but I have no power going to my throttle, I've checked the voltage levels with min being at 1.5v and max being 5v, if this is OK what else could it be? I plan on checking the throttle connections and wires after I've had some sleep, any suggestions to a solution will be appreciated ?
Lol a giggle for you, my throttle isn't working but my pas works lol (my wheel went flying across the room)
Doesn't matter I sorted it, wires were connected the wrong way - redo hall test and the wheel went through the wall using the throttle :) all sorted just waiting for the freewheel then it's test ride time :)
when should a hall test be done? :)
Hey Andy, So, you need some hubsinks and a bit of statoraid, I know, I've had zero over heating out here even with high ambient temps..... Nice to see you out again. Oh and 2:09 again :-D
Hi andy thanks so much for the video. I have a diy ebike myself which i built using my old frame but unfortunately the rear dropouts of my frame are ruined due the 1500w motor randomly popping even with a torque arm! Is there a specific type of frame to using or do you have any recommendations for future ebike projects?
Hi, no not really. You just need a good torque arm 👍🏻
@@andykirby great thanks! I've been seeing a bunch of these carbon frames on ebay for around £100 but i'm pretty sure they will break in no time
Normally drop outs a bit tighter than hub axle,and axle not going in all the way so you need filing out a bit, soon you do that will be no problem, but need to be tight and full fit
@@andykirby Hi, could you link to a good torque arm?
Andy, do you ship to the US from your store and is it super expensive?
I've got to say, ...I've a full suspension boardman with the bafang bbshd motor 52v 17.5ah battery and it's great fun, 800quid for bike and about another 900 quid for motor and battery, so 1700 pounds and it goes like a rocket and loads of fun!...yet my partners boardman fazua motor although legal hybrid bike is light but not very powerful and cost more than my homemade one. The thing is whilst her hybrid bike isn't powerful its light and could be pedalled without battery assistance, so you pays your money and take your choice,
£8k for a Specialised ebike? I could get a second-hand Triumph Bobber for that, and smile for miles! Defo will get Andy's kit and build my own. I've a spare old ICE tadpole trike that'll be perfect for the job.
Which 5000w motor is best to get 3.5T or 5T.
Nice one, no competition really. How much faster would the Specialized be if it was derestricted?
That bike for ove £7.000 does he realise he could buy a surron that eoud be my choice. That bike must be carbon fibre that's why it's expensive
£8.5k?!?! That’s motorcycle money
Yo man, the bike is a monster, but those sweet beats at 8min are what impressed me most
That power limit is horrible. The USA limit of 750w is more realistic, though I'm on 2600w.
Can someone suggest me a smallest possible 50-100A controller?,
I bought a 80A ESC from aliexpres... It works but the throttle PWM thingy sucks and doesnt have hall sensor input which sucks even more since acceleration on low RPM doesnt exist.
Phaserunner www.cloudsto.com/forum/phaserunner-motor-controllers/phaserunner-advanced-foc-controller-90v-2000-3000w-detail.html
Ha Ha, I'm with Steve 100% - think of the e-bike you could build with £7500 to £8500! You'd get fitter with the Levo but think of the fun you'd have with some proper clean POWER!!!!
Either fit a Bafang BBSHD or get a frame bike for the Ultra
What happened to the new rear mud guard, It looked like it fell off?
Just got my 1000w ebike today i had a blast on it so much fun!
DIY Hands Down! Much Cheaper & Better! LOL
hey Andy great to see you back putting videos up. whats happened to the vapor haven't see you on it for a while ?
Hi Andy, love the videos and great work on your bike builds. I'm starting my project of an electric bike and I have a couple of questions about motors and batteries. Sorry if this has been asked before but I am looking at a 5kw brushless hub motor from China and a 2kw speed controller also from China. Is this ok to run or would it be better to be the other way around? It seems hard to find a matching motor and speed controller pair that is the same kw. The bike will be used for road use mainly and long distance riding. Any help would be appreciated as I am new to this and would rather get it right the first time. Thank you.
Can you put three 2kw controllers in parallel? (to get 6kw of controller)
Hi Andy great content, if a 250w bike is the highest you can go how do you get away with more than that? Thanks
By not being a dick and popping wheelies on the road. Be responsible and the police leave you alone 99% of the time.
Great video. I build my own ebikes but nothing like that power. BTW good ta see you on Spotify some decent tracks. M7 SSS
I really want one of your mudguard controllers, noticed yours went from about 10 o'clock to 8 o'clock and then roughly 6:25 in the slop. Nice to see though that it was at 12 o'clock position at the end of the video - which is of course the gentleman's angle.
good show. I have a hard time classing the bike you was on as anything other than an electric scoter. It had pedals,cranks,chainring,deraileier,cassette all of which wernt used. If this ebike was not electrically assisted it would be next to useless as pedalling would get you knowhere very slowly. But i guess having working pedals is a legal work around. If my legs wernt going in circles id very much want them to be planted on motorbike pegs. Im having thoughts on an ebike,i dont need a fancy display red/amber/green light on the battery is good enough for me. I have seen some kind of dummy safety switches need attched to brakes,just to make sure you not wide open on throttle and wondering why the front brakes are doing nothing,surely i can avoid using them ? im not dissing the whole ebike thing,im interested but there still seems to be more - than +
Ace looking tracks you have. Great video
Does anyone know if you can put a bafang ultra on a specialised Levo?
Great video mate, the specialized is a diffirent type of bike but who in there right mind would spend 8k on that leaf blower!
Whats up w/ needing the top dollar best of the best just on a toy... I spent $400 on a razor mx650 and I got a big motor and battery for about $250 and it does 35mph (on a slight downhill) and I dont6even have the biggest motor or battery I can get in that bike, I'd rather go DIY but I build my own instead of buying a premade bike.
I've just got in from riding home from my work on my new 500watt ebike kit. It's great but it started making a whining noise from the motor. Its brand new....any ideas?
It's just a front wheel conversion.
That video looked fun !
@B Elite Rider is it normal? Do I need to worry about it?
Parker video Andy but to complete different electric bikes & a E_bike 👊 the tyres look sick by the way mate 💪👍
Hi Andy. Have you any idea when the fully built vapour will be back in stock? I can’t wait to get one. Cheers mate.👍
It's going to be a while im afraid. Frames are shipping next.
Factory ebikes need power mods to make them exciting. They are only 250w to keep within the law. A high end factory ebike will blow a diy ebike out of the water off road only if you are a good rider and are into proper mountain biking. Try and do a set of big jumps or a 6ft drop and the diy bike will fail. If your only using it for light off road then diy is fine. Anything hardcore your going to be wanting factory built i'm affraid.
Enjoy your vids and your content but this video is pointless. It’s like comparing chalk and cheese. If you want a bike to run flat out through fields tracks like that then buy/build an electric motorcycle......or a petrol scrambler. The EMTB is for a completely different purpose and as such would win hands down on proper downhill trails / ascending and descending mountains and even in a purpose built bike park.
Steve, no mud gaurd on the rear, you gonna have a mud line all of your back :D :S oops
8K for a bike is ridiculous! Unless it was hand build from custom parts - so a unique ‘one of a kind’. But then one can build a beast of an ebike for a third of that price from off the self imported parts.
Get in front Steve and take Andy on a trail that includes a lift over gate, you be home before he rings 3 other mates to help him lift that overweight, overpowered, quick trip to the nick, monster to the other side. 😂😂
😅
It really too bad we can't get the 5000S frame that was made for a mid drive motor...that would be the shit!
Iv just got myself A Dultron Eagle Pro 3600 watt scooter off ebay got it at a bargain for a thousand pounds exactly. Only 6 months old under 250miles on it ...Any 1 knows if I got stopped by police will I get told off iv got a full face helmet and 48 yrs old riding responsible and it's very fast like a picket Rocket...
If that Lenovo is unable to be deresticted then it's pointless, why have a carbon frame then put a meagre motor in it , get a Vulcan from Halfords or build your own , I got a Vulcan and am unimpressed as to its performance so am building a 1500 watt bike ..it wont cost £8000 plus either..
£8000 for that bike you could have built a better and faster bike for half the cost, Andy.
its an mtb, for huge jumps and mtb trails. something andy's couldnt.
Youve totally missed the point of what lightweight ebikes are for 😂 and that flat moor isnt the place to be testing one either.
Put Chris Hoy on it and it's a 2750 watt bike.
Steve: I don’t mind getting muddy I just don’t want my feet to get wet.bike park:fuckin send it 😭.Andy how much would your bike set us back if we was to build 1 .looks a lot of fun that bike not gonna lie
Your mate got ripped off, he could have bought a brand name carbon fibre 29er MTB frame online for about 400 GBP, he could have bought himself a hub motor & controller that cost around 1000 GBP & decked out the rest of the bike with parts for less than 1200 GBP, a 20s 10p 40 Ah usable Litokala 26650 cost around 1350 GBP . So for 3950 GBP instead of paying 7249 GBP saving around 3299 GBP with a much faster bike. This is the problem with someone that has the attitude of I want it now as opposed to I can wait, if you want something now you'll never be satisfied unless you can wait.
what is your opinion on a 2000w rear hub, should I buy stronger or the 1500w?
There is a hack you may be able to do where you move the speed sensor magnet on the frame at crank , which increases the speed of the specialized bicycle, other people have done bit on haibike it increases speed to 28 mph, look up speed limiter hack mtb on RUclips
Also voids warranty on a 7-8k bike
Just put it back if you need warranty
you could buy 2 saurons for the price of that
Well I know which e-bike I prefer great place to ride guys.
awsome vid boys :)