I feel fortunate to be able to call a friend and neighbot a "Drengr"........he was totally a 'scrapper', especially in his younger days - fighting, drugs, etc. But, through Internal Searching and recognition that his old path would have resulted in imprisonment, has turned from that way to a way of "The Peaceful Warrior" (the title of a book). I do not agree with all of his views of people, but he has always been straight with me and my family and truly Wise and Honorable beyond his age of being in his late 40's.
Hey, Dr Crawford. Great video as always. I want to address your usage of "cred" in particular. It is indeed a fitting usage in the given example, however "cred" has recently began to fade from common vernacular. The youth have began using "clout" far more commonly than "cred". Cred is still used in tandem with other words (Man cred, Street cred etc.) and is not replaced with clout. I figured you'd want to keep up with the youth. You know, for clout.
Wow! That's actually a "fossilized expression" in the making! Street cred will probably remain a saying long after the youth know what the word cred even means.
As usual, another fascinating topic. As I learn more about my ancestry, I just grow more enthralled with every facet of the lives of the ancient Norse people.
I find the use of the word "dreng" in the modern scandinavian languages really odd if you compare it to the old norse. In danish "dræng" means "boy", and in relatively recent norwegian and even sometimes today the word "dreng" is used for a boy working for a farmer to help tend the animals.
In swedish it means "farmhand". But if you think of it as someone who is in the service of another it is easier to apply to the old norse concept of "huscarl" (house man, free men in the service of the house and the ruler of the house) and as such also warriors.
@@sirseigan I think that it has more of the original meaning in the Skåneland dialect of Swedish although it could be that it means boy like in Danish (that would make sense). I'm only inferring from how I've heard it used by relatives but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have the same meaning as in standard Swedish at least.
Dr. Crawford, is there a "stand alone" version of the Cowboy Havamal? I know its in at least one of your other books, but I'd like to make gifts of just the Cowboy version to some friends.
I think a good way to distinguish the types of honour that you are talking about is virtue vs reputation. I'm thinking about this especially because the Latin "virtus" literally means manness and is used similarly to Drengskapr in many contexts. Whereas the Latin "fama" where we get fame is used for the reputation variety. Interestingly the Latin "honor" means esteem, dignity, and especially public office which makes sense seeing as a political career carried the highest respect in Rome. Virtus is often seen as the quality of a good politician.
Reminds me that τιμή means “honour” in Attic Greek, but only of persons; of things, it means “price”! But I suppose we still use the word “esteem” this way in English, and what someone or something is esteemed for is their worth.
@@jameswoodard4304 Virtue meant to honor the gods by being very devout to them, sacrificing, celebrating, honouring and living by their way usually meant you were virtuous. But of course what ancient paganism considers to be virtuous is different from the Christian belief of virtue, which is basically the same but applied to the philosophy of the Bible.
Yes. The Norse in Eire, Mannin, and Alba eventually integrated into the local population and became Gaelicised. Norse-Gaels, they are called. The ones in Cymru and England were eventually forced out rather than integrating, for the most part. Gaelg was the majority language spoken on Mannin at any given time, however, as the Scottish Isles were never well-settled enough by the Norse to generate a language shift.
We actually have approximately the same word as sǿmð in norwegian now. Only it`s a verb, sømme, å sømme. If someone is not behaving in a moral way we can say "det sømmer seg ikke". Meaning that does not not fit you station, that behavior is immorral or something like that.
The word "sømd" (honor, reputation, dignity, morality) still exists in modern Norwegian, but has in practice gone out of the vocabulary (at least in Bokmål). However, we use derived words such as "sømmelighet" (modesty) og "usømmelighet" (indifference).
In Danish the derived words are still alive (although a bit oldfashioned), in two meanings: "sømmelig" (adj) in the meaning modest/proper, typically used for clothing. And "sømme" (vb) in the meaning proper/right as in "det sømmer sig at fortælle at bilen bruger olie inden du sælger den".
@@ivanskyttejrgensen7464 Both of these variants can be used in Norwegian as well (at least in Bokmål), but both words are a bit old-fashioned in the form (as in Danish). In fact, there are few Danish words that do not have a Norwegian equivalent (again in Bokmål). These common Danish-Norwegian words must therefore probably be from when Denmark and Norway were a common kingdom (ie from before 1814). The Danish words that do not have a Norwegian equivalent are newer or specifically Danish such as "træls" (which today means something that is strenuous, annoying, etc.). This word is also a bit interesting because it is probably a genitive form of the word "træl" which in old Norse (þræll) meant slave. The Norwegian form of "træl" today is "trell", but we cannot say that something is "trells".
@@Hvitserk67 Start using "træls" - I find it invaluable. It can be used in a variety of situations ranging from mildly annoying (running out of beer saturday evening) to irritatingly unfortunate (driving a Fiat 500 behind a group of Hells Anges, making a polite sound so you can take over, but then the horn gets stuck).
I have not found a Swedis equvalent to "sømd" yet. But in the meaning of "modesty, decensy, honorbly" the words "ärbarhet" or "höviskhet" can be used. "Ärbar" means "worthy of/able to honor/glory/praise" while "hövisk" is more... a higher way, a more higher/polite/restrained/noble/dignified/chivalieric way... In Swedish we have the word "träligt" (like a träl/slave) and means that something is boring, not very fun and not really not worth the effort to do. It us not that it is hard work, more boring, meanless and slightly undignified work. "Slavgöra" (slave doing/work) on the other hand is is more hard undignified work.
@@sirseigan The fact that something is "trälligt" in Swedish is very similar to "træls" in Danish only with a slightly different meaning - though within the same context. In Norwegian we have no corresponding use of the word "þræll" today. The letter "æ" in Danish and Norwegian corresponds to the Swedish use of the letter "ä" (just to make this clear to English speakers). The letters "æ" and "ø" have been used in Danish and Norwegian since the 700-800s AD, while the corresponding Swedish letters "ä" and "ö" came from German in the Middle Ages (ca. 1500 AD).
'æra' is a learned borrowing from Old High German or Old Saxon 'ēra', since the equivalent Old Norse form would be 'eir'. It translates as 'glory' or 'renown'. Heiðr, as I have noted elsewhere, is equivalent to 'social standing/worth' and is related to English state-of-being suffix -hood, ie. 'boyhood'. Always be careful back-substituting modern meanings onto older languages. Modern English 'bastard' is derived from a word meaning 'marriage', for example.
Just heard from Amazon UK that the distribution of The Wanderer's Hávamál hardback in the UK has been set back to late December - early January. There is no expected despatch date for the paper back available yet.
I caught your older video from Wyoming were the mosquitoes ended it early. You must drive the rest of the "enlightened" people nuts wearing a 1911 T-Shirt! Awesomeness!
There are several options in Norwegian, particularly the New Norwegian (nynorsk) variant. My dictionary tells me that the word _ære_ stems from Younger Norse _æra_ having been imported from Lower German _ere_ . The New Norwegian word _heider_ OTOH seems to be a good direct translation of the modern English word _honor_ and that word has an Old Norse ancestor in _heiðr_ . I missed that in the video.
"Heder" and "Ära" in Swedish and yes it has the similar meaning as in Danish. We still have "ärekränkning" as a legal term wich is of a higher degree then "förtal" (slander). As I see it "ära" is more similar to "glory" or "praise" and "heder" is more honor, but it is not allways the case. But to say that "heder" is more internal and "ära" is more external would not be wrong, I think...
4 jobs?? university work - here on youtube - umm this translating work for film/tv/gaming... and.... ? (none of my business really, just curious - and worried working too hard)
Can you do a discussion about the similarities between Norse mythology and Hinduism Rig Veda Bhagavad Gita and Brahma Vishnu Krishna and Shiva Supreme Godhead? I noticed hard Polytheism is missing the Spiritual Godhead but only focuses on the material world.
Big Drengr Energy
I just love the whole Viking cowboy atmosphere of this channel! Such a huge bonus on top of the first class content ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
His full intro is back \o/
And there it is, at 7:38, our best translation of "Death before dishonor." Great stuff.
@Soturian Never had a tanker standin' the line with me. But everyone's infantry now-a-days I guess.
I feel fortunate to be able to call a friend and neighbot a "Drengr"........he was totally a 'scrapper', especially in his younger days - fighting, drugs, etc. But, through Internal Searching and recognition that his old path would have resulted in imprisonment, has turned from that way to a way of "The Peaceful Warrior" (the title of a book). I do not agree with all of his views of people, but he has always been straight with me and my family and truly Wise and Honorable beyond his age of being in his late 40's.
Hey, Dr Crawford. Great video as always. I want to address your usage of "cred" in particular. It is indeed a fitting usage in the given example, however "cred" has recently began to fade from common vernacular. The youth have began using "clout" far more commonly than "cred". Cred is still used in tandem with other words (Man cred, Street cred etc.) and is not replaced with clout.
I figured you'd want to keep up with the youth. You know, for clout.
Wow! That's actually a "fossilized expression" in the making! Street cred will probably remain a saying long after the youth know what the word cred even means.
Good morning Doc Crawford. Hope you are doing well.
Thank you for your posts. I enjoy your lessons while wondering around on a hike
As usual, another fascinating topic. As I learn more about my ancestry, I just grow more enthralled with every facet of the lives of the ancient Norse people.
Fantastic video Doc! Thanks so much.
I find the use of the word "dreng" in the modern scandinavian languages really odd if you compare it to the old norse. In danish "dræng" means "boy", and in relatively recent norwegian and even sometimes today the word "dreng" is used for a boy working for a farmer to help tend the animals.
In swedish it means "farmhand". But if you think of it as someone who is in the service of another it is easier to apply to the old norse concept of "huscarl" (house man, free men in the service of the house and the ruler of the house) and as such also warriors.
@@sirseigan I think that it has more of the original meaning in the Skåneland dialect of Swedish although it could be that it means boy like in Danish (that would make sense). I'm only inferring from how I've heard it used by relatives but I'm pretty sure that it doesn't have the same meaning as in standard Swedish at least.
Dr. Crawford, is there a "stand alone" version of the Cowboy Havamal? I know its in at least one of your other books, but I'd like to make gifts of just the Cowboy version to some friends.
I think a good way to distinguish the types of honour that you are talking about is virtue vs reputation. I'm thinking about this especially because the Latin "virtus" literally means manness and is used similarly to Drengskapr in many contexts. Whereas the Latin "fama" where we get fame is used for the reputation variety. Interestingly the Latin "honor" means esteem, dignity, and especially public office which makes sense seeing as a political career carried the highest respect in Rome. Virtus is often seen as the quality of a good politician.
Super informative as always! Thank you so much!
Awesome video. Thank you for clearing that up.
Reminds me that τιμή means “honour” in Attic Greek, but only of persons; of things, it means “price”! But I suppose we still use the word “esteem” this way in English, and what someone or something is esteemed for is their worth.
Sad thing today: Most wannabe vikings, only interpret honor in old norse as excuse to bully.
Thats a pretty broad statement...: I disagree!
@@Daniel509476 Only my subjective experience when i encounter "heathens".
The dude in the video legit memorize passages in old Norse. Before you judge him watch history channels Vikings.
@@jondonom In case: I dont judge the "dude" in the video. He has more brain than every hypermaskulin agressive wannabe viking.
Yeah definitely
It's odd that "dreng" in modern Norwegian is a farmhand. (or simply "boy" in Danish) I wonder what etymological twist took place.
Drengr means both man/servant and "one who is honourable". It's kinda similar to how 'lad' is used today.
@@girv98 And we also say " be a man" today, meaning "be strong, honorable" etc.
Yes, dräng is farmhand om modern swedish too
The way you talk about the word, "drenskapr" makes it sound closest to the modern sense of the word, "virtue."
@@jameswoodard4304
Virtue meant to honor the gods by being very devout to them, sacrificing, celebrating, honouring and living by their way usually meant you were virtuous. But of course what ancient paganism considers to be virtuous is different from the Christian belief of virtue, which is basically the same but applied to the philosophy of the Bible.
I wonder if they spoke Old Norse on the Isle of Man or was it mixed with Gaelic?
Yes. The Norse in Eire, Mannin, and Alba eventually integrated into the local population and became Gaelicised. Norse-Gaels, they are called. The ones in Cymru and England were eventually forced out rather than integrating, for the most part. Gaelg was the majority language spoken on Mannin at any given time, however, as the Scottish Isles were never well-settled enough by the Norse to generate a language shift.
We actually have approximately the same word as sǿmð in norwegian now.
Only it`s a verb, sømme, å sømme.
If someone is not behaving in a moral way we can say "det sømmer seg ikke".
Meaning that does not not fit you station, that behavior is immorral or something like that.
please, make a video about their concept of "love" between a man and a woman, just like you did with "honor".
The word "sømd" (honor, reputation, dignity, morality) still exists in modern Norwegian, but has in practice gone out of the vocabulary (at least in Bokmål). However, we use derived words such as "sømmelighet" (modesty) og "usømmelighet" (indifference).
In Danish the derived words are still alive (although a bit oldfashioned), in two meanings: "sømmelig" (adj) in the meaning modest/proper, typically used for clothing. And "sømme" (vb) in the meaning proper/right as in "det sømmer sig at fortælle at bilen bruger olie inden du sælger den".
@@ivanskyttejrgensen7464 Both of these variants can be used in Norwegian as well (at least in Bokmål), but both words are a bit old-fashioned in the form (as in Danish). In fact, there are few Danish words that do not have a Norwegian equivalent (again in Bokmål). These common Danish-Norwegian words must therefore probably be from when Denmark and Norway were a common kingdom (ie from before 1814). The Danish words that do not have a Norwegian equivalent are newer or specifically Danish such as "træls" (which today means something that is strenuous, annoying, etc.). This word is also a bit interesting because it is probably a genitive form of the word "træl" which in old Norse (þræll) meant slave. The Norwegian form of "træl" today is "trell", but we cannot say that something is "trells".
@@Hvitserk67 Start using "træls" - I find it invaluable. It can be used in a variety of situations ranging from mildly annoying (running out of beer saturday evening) to irritatingly unfortunate (driving a Fiat 500 behind a group of Hells Anges, making a polite sound so you can take over, but then the horn gets stuck).
I have not found a Swedis equvalent to "sømd" yet. But in the meaning of "modesty, decensy, honorbly" the words "ärbarhet" or "höviskhet" can be used.
"Ärbar" means "worthy of/able to honor/glory/praise" while "hövisk" is more... a higher way, a more higher/polite/restrained/noble/dignified/chivalieric way...
In Swedish we have the word "träligt" (like a träl/slave) and means that something is boring, not very fun and not really not worth the effort to do. It us not that it is hard work, more boring, meanless and slightly undignified work. "Slavgöra" (slave doing/work) on the other hand is is more hard undignified work.
@@sirseigan The fact that something is "trälligt" in Swedish is very similar to "træls" in Danish only with a slightly different meaning - though within the same context. In Norwegian we have no corresponding use of the word "þræll" today. The letter "æ" in Danish and Norwegian corresponds to the Swedish use of the letter "ä" (just to make this clear to English speakers). The letters "æ" and "ø" have been used in Danish and Norwegian since the 700-800s AD, while the corresponding Swedish letters "ä" and "ö" came from German in the Middle Ages (ca. 1500 AD).
What about the word hrodr? I thought that also means honor
I thought it would be "æra".
Me too
Ära is reputational in modern Swedish at least. Heder is a bit more in between.
@@faarsight it's Ehre in German
'æra' is a learned borrowing from Old High German or Old Saxon 'ēra', since the equivalent Old Norse form would be 'eir'. It translates as 'glory' or 'renown'. Heiðr, as I have noted elsewhere, is equivalent to 'social standing/worth' and is related to English state-of-being suffix -hood, ie. 'boyhood'. Always be careful back-substituting modern meanings onto older languages. Modern English 'bastard' is derived from a word meaning 'marriage', for example.
@@therat1117 Thank you for the enlightening reply.
Your quote about Drengskap was almost understandable in modern swedish, you sounded a lot like anglophones speaking swedish
I wonder if he's speaking in a much older form of nordic? If so it might account for its sound being not quite correct.
@larsliamvilhelm I can see that. Pronunciation can carry alot of meaning.
Just heard from Amazon UK that the distribution of The Wanderer's Hávamál hardback in the UK has been set back to late December - early January. There is no expected despatch date for the paper back available yet.
I caught your older video from Wyoming were the mosquitoes ended it early. You must drive the rest of the "enlightened" people nuts wearing a 1911 T-Shirt! Awesomeness!
In Norwegian i think its Ære or heder
Sounds about right..
As a Norwegian, I can confirm.
There are several options in Norwegian, particularly the New Norwegian (nynorsk) variant. My dictionary tells me that the word _ære_ stems from Younger Norse _æra_ having been imported from Lower German _ere_ .
The New Norwegian word _heider_ OTOH seems to be a good direct translation of the modern English word _honor_ and that word has an Old Norse ancestor in _heiðr_ .
I missed that in the video.
@@ErikHolten really i speak nynorsk iv think iv heard Heider probably once in my life but i think its used as heder og ære thx for the info btw
"Heder" and "Ära" in Swedish and yes it has the similar meaning as in Danish. We still have "ärekränkning" as a legal term wich is of a higher degree then "förtal" (slander).
As I see it "ära" is more similar to "glory" or "praise" and "heder" is more honor, but it is not allways the case. But to say that "heder" is more internal and "ära" is more external would not be wrong, I think...
4 jobs?? university work - here on youtube - umm this translating work for film/tv/gaming... and.... ? (none of my business really, just curious - and worried working too hard)
Probably his ranch.
@@terminator572 fair point, could be
'Honour' surely
Can you do a discussion about the similarities between Norse mythology and Hinduism Rig Veda Bhagavad Gita and Brahma Vishnu Krishna and Shiva Supreme Godhead?
I noticed hard Polytheism is missing the Spiritual Godhead but only focuses on the material world.
You would swear on Odin in the southern german tribes. In the northern (Scandinavian) german part you would swear on Donar....
Donar ..Odin .honor
Courtesy is honorable, but not honor.